Any views about backing up an Android phone? When I used Windows, I
regularly backed that up with Acronis or EaseUS Todo to an external
drive. Now I'm using Linux, I backup data ("Backups") to external USB
sticks and OS (Timeshift - not strictly a backup) to the internal HD.
Backing up to an external drive has always been very straightforward,
but Android seems less accommodating.

I should say that I have very little need to backup my phone, as I don't
use it for anything important. If I take any photos I want to keep, I'll
copy them to my laptop within a day. I also never use Cloud storage.

My Xiaomi phone has a built-in backup app, but of course that seems to
require a Xiaomi account with backup to Xiaomi cloud storage. However, a
little more digging into "Settings" reveals it can store in The Cloud,
or locally - either as "Mobile Device - Back up and restore items on
this device", or "Computer - Back up and restore it". However, the
"Mobile Device" backup says "This feature allows you to backup and
restore items using your mobile device and computer. This feature needs
to connect to the internet and requires the following mandatory
permissions to work:" There follows a list with accessing contacts and
call history for backing up, and editing contacts and call history to
restore, accessing storage for backing up files, and saving items to
storage for restoring items (what these items are it doesn't specify.
Are they files?). Finally it needs to access messages to back them up
(but there's nothing about restoring them). Why does it have to do this
through the internet, though? I have to agree to this before progressing
to the next info page, but haven't done so, so don't know exactly how
the computer is involved.

Looking at other backup apps on Play Store or F-Droid shows how confused
the picture is. Some backup specifics like apps, contacts, SMS/MMS
messages, or photos, while others do several. Some state they can't
backup data as root access is required. Some say they can backup to an
internal card, and only then copy from that card to an external store.

Why is backing up in Android apparently so complicated? Why can't I do
as simply as I would with Windows or Linux via USB (or Wi-Fi)? And I
haven't even looked at the issue of whether or not it is straightforward
to restore from a backup.

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman wrote:
> Any views about backing up an Android phone? When I used Windows, I
> regularly backed that up with Acronis or EaseUS Todo to an external
> drive. Now I'm using Linux, I backup data ("Backups") to external USB
> sticks and OS (Timeshift - not strictly a backup) to the internal HD.
> Backing up to an external drive has always been very straightforward,
> but Android seems less accommodating.
>
> I should say that I have very little need to backup my phone, as I don't
> use it for anything important. If I take any photos I want to keep, I'll
> copy them to my laptop within a day. I also never use Cloud storage.
>
> My Xiaomi phone has a built-in backup app, but of course that seems to
> require a Xiaomi account with backup to Xiaomi cloud storage. However, a
> little more digging into "Settings" reveals it can store in The Cloud,
> or locally - either as "Mobile Device - Back up and restore items on
> this device", or "Computer - Back up and restore it". However, the
> "Mobile Device" backup says "This feature allows you to backup and
> restore items using your mobile device and computer. This feature needs
> to connect to the internet and requires the following mandatory
> permissions to work:" There follows a list with accessing contacts and
> call history for backing up, and editing contacts and call history to
> restore, accessing storage for backing up files, and saving items to
> storage for restoring items (what these items are it doesn't specify.
> Are they files?). Finally it needs to access messages to back them up
> (but there's nothing about restoring them). Why does it have to do this
> through the internet, though? I have to agree to this before progressing
> to the next info page, but haven't done so, so don't know exactly how
> the computer is involved.
>
> Looking at other backup apps on Play Store or F-Droid shows how confused
> the picture is. Some backup specifics like apps, contacts, SMS/MMS
> messages, or photos, while others do several. Some state they can't
> backup data as root access is required. Some say they can backup to an
> internal card, and only then copy from that card to an external store.
>
> Why is backing up in Android apparently so complicated? Why can't I do
> as simply as I would with Windows or Linux via USB (or Wi-Fi)? And I
> haven't even looked at the issue of whether or not it is straightforward
> to restore from a backup.
>

All phone companies I've used offer their own backup services; Google,
Huwaei, Samsung. You find them usually pre-installed on your phone.

I have a feeling, however, that you're a Windows-conditioned-man, and
are used to independent imaging and cloning software.
If so, I'm on your side. But I don't know where to get it.

Ed

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote

> Any views about backing up an Android phone?

It's a perennial topic which comes up frequently on this newsgroup.
While backup is trivial, you should plan ahead for a proper backup.

For example, the Android phone and Windows are the same file system.

Every Android phone in your house is mounted to every Windows PC.
<https://i.postimg.cc/QtbR1GY0/webdav13.jpg>

Over the WI-Fi Lan. So if you're at home - it's the same file system.
<https://i.postimg.cc/hjkVFyqJ/scrcpy07.jpg>

Plus the apps can be installed from Windows simply by sliding them.
<https://i.postimg.cc/wvsbcNBz/scrcpy05.jpg>

And they can be deleted from Windows simply by running adb commands.
<https://i.postimg.cc/3xz7Qtrn/adb06.jpg>

All this stuff has been covered in gory detail on this newsgroup.

Suffice to summarize Android & Windows are exactly the same files.
You can act on Windows files from Android & vice versa all you want.

Meaning backup up Android is no different than backing up Windows.
They're the same files on both systems, in fact. And the same GUI.
<https://i.postimg.cc/k5gv0yw8/vysor34.jpg>

> When I used Windows, I
> regularly backed that up with Acronis or EaseUS Todo to an external
> drive. Now I'm using Linux, I backup data ("Backups") to external USB
> sticks and OS (Timeshift - not strictly a backup) to the internal HD.
> Backing up to an external drive has always been very straightforward,
> but Android seems less accommodating.

Google makes it pretty easy to back up & restore any Android phone.
So does Samsung.
Not sure about the other OEMs.

It requires an account though.

> I should say that I have very little need to backup my phone, as I don't
> use it for anything important. If I take any photos I want to keep, I'll
> copy them to my laptop within a day. I also never use Cloud storage.

Everyone organizes their kitchen utensils differently but everyone
organizes them. Organizing Android is no different than your kitchen.

It looks complex but it's the same in every kitchen where forks go with the
forks & spoons, the pots with the pots & pans, the dishes with the bowls
and saucers, etc. It's not any different with Android.

Most people have the camera set to store the images/videos on the external
sdcard (and if they don't have one, they usually have huge internal storage
because, basically, the only phones without the sd slot are the very high
end phones where people are supposed to pay more for internal storage and
also pay more for the cloud storage to compensate for the loss of the
sdcard slot). IMHO.

> My Xiaomi phone has a built-in backup app, but of course that seems to
> require a Xiaomi account with backup to Xiaomi cloud storage.

Most of the apps will require an account. The canonical backup app is
"titanium backup", but it has requirements to (e.g., root access).

> However, a
> little more digging into "Settings" reveals it can store in The Cloud,
> or locally - either as "Mobile Device - Back up and restore items on
> this device", or "Computer - Back up and restore it". However, the
> "Mobile Device" backup says "This feature allows you to backup and
> restore items using your mobile device and computer. This feature needs
> to connect to the internet and requires the following mandatory
> permissions to work:" There follows a list with accessing contacts and
> call history for backing up, and editing contacts and call history to
> restore, accessing storage for backing up files, and saving items to
> storage for restoring items (what these items are it doesn't specify.
> Are they files?). Finally it needs to access messages to back them up
> (but there's nothing about restoring them). Why does it have to do this
> through the internet, though? I have to agree to this before progressing
> to the next info page, but haven't done so, so don't know exactly how
> the computer is involved.

What seems to be happening, at least for me, as I usually get my phones for
free or low cost, is that the expansion cards are vastly bigger than my
internal storage.

When I had 16GB Androids, I had 32GB expansion cards.
When I had 32GB Androids, I had 64GB expansion cards.
When I had 64GB Androids, I had 128GB expansion cards.

The expansion card can hold more than the internal storage of the phone so
everything I wanted to make a copy of would be saved to the expansion card.

> Looking at other backup apps on Play Store or F-Droid shows how confused
> the picture is. Some backup specifics like apps, contacts, SMS/MMS
> messages, or photos, while others do several. Some state they can't
> backup data as root access is required. Some say they can backup to an
> internal card, and only then copy from that card to an external store.

Again, we've covered in gory detail all the SMS/MMS backup solutions.
There are many.

> Why is backing up in Android apparently so complicated?

It's not. It's no more complicated than your kitchen is.

> Why can't I do
> as simply as I would with Windows or Linux via USB (or Wi-Fi)? And I
> haven't even looked at the issue of whether or not it is straightforward
> to restore from a backup.

I do on Windows exactly what I do on Android and it works fine for me.
But I'm organized.

For example, I use the Nova free app launcher which saves the organization
of the homescreen folders and apps, and it backs them up to a file.

That way I can just reload that file into any other phone and all the app
icons in all the app folders in all the same positions is installed.

For my photos I keep them on the (always twice-the-size) external sd card.
Same with all my maps.
And videos.

For my other files, I keep a folder called "0000" on the internal sdcard.
And I keep a folder called "0001" on the external sdcard.

And I put everything I care about there.
That way, those are the only two folders I have to care about copying.

As for the apps, they're automatically backed up to a Windows drive letter
the instant they're installed (as the APK is simply not deleted).

All this would take me a while to re-explain but EVERY SINGLE THING I've
explained above we've covered on this newsgroup already in gory detail.

Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote

> I have a feeling, however, that you're a Windows-conditioned-man, and
> are used to independent imaging and cloning software.
> If so, I'm on your side. But I don't know where to get it.

We've discussed backup solutions (e.g., Titanium backup & SMS/MMS backups)
umpteen times on this newsgroup so I have nothing new to offer other than a
summary that backup is so trivial that it happens automatically every day.

For example, all your Android phones are already mounted over your Wi-Fi
LAN as a drive letter on Windows - so why not use Windows backup tools?
<https://i.postimg.cc/BvJdKWzt/webdav06.jpg> Both sdcards mounted

The entire Android phone is simply a set of files on the Windows filesys.

Why can't you copy your entire Android user storage over to Windows?
(Actually, you'd likely copy it to a 5TB drive hanging off Windows).

Like this:
<https://i.postimg.cc/zD9P15FX/sdcard11.jpg> OsmAnd~ Windows confirmation
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZK4pNMTx/sdcard12.jpg> OsmAnd~ Android confirmation

Hence...

What's to stop you from simply _copying_ the entire Android phone to
Windows (even if you're not rooted - as most files are read access)?

Even all your APKs are saved to a Windows drive letter upon installation.
<https://i.postimg.cc/c4PrjSwx/aurora19.jpg> Save all APKs upon install
(Actually, to be clear, they're "not deleted", but that's the same thing.)
<https://i.postimg.cc/V6tyDpNd/aurora17.jpg> Don't delete APKs postinstall

The point is you can _copy_ Android to Windows even if you don't mount it.
<https://i.postimg.cc/BvJdKWzt/webdav06.jpg> Both sdcards mounted

For example, let's take the trivial example of copying the HOSTS file
from Android over to Windows (as just the simplest of examples).

On Windows, you run this command - and the HOSTS file is backed up.
C:\> adb pull /system/etc/hosts .\hosts.txt
That should copy the hosts file over even if you're unrooted.

Anyway, all this has been covered umpteen times on this newsgroup.
In gory detail.

My main point is that Android _is_ Windows.
The files are the same.

A "copy" of Android to Windows is trivial.

And vice versa (although you wouldn't usually copy Windows to Android
except for when you install your APK from your Windows file system).
<https://i.postimg.cc/wvsbcNBz/scrcpy05.jpg> Drag APK from Windows

I suppose most of you have noticed this, but usually I don't get
feedback where the system that be thinks my cellphone is.

I live in NW Baltimore and the other day I was at a Home Depot a mile
away, and I logged into HD, and the email that got generated said I was
in Silver Spring, Md., about 40 miles from here!

Today I was about 5 miles from the center of town when I logged into
Amazon, and the email that got generated (again to warn me that someone
was using my account) said I was in North Carolina, 2 1/2 states away
from here.

I know this isn't upposed to be that accurate but it is less accurate
than I expected.

Am 02.11.23 um 22:50 schrieb micky:
> I suppose most of you have noticed this, but usually I don't get
> feedback where the system that be thinks my cellphone is.
>
> I live in NW Baltimore and the other day I was at a Home Depot a mile
> away, and I logged into HD, and the email that got generated said I was
> in Silver Spring, Md., about 40 miles from here!
>
> Today I was about 5 miles from the center of town when I logged into
> Amazon, and the email that got generated (again to warn me that someone
> was using my account) said I was in North Carolina, 2 1/2 states away
> from here.
>
> I know this isn't upposed to be that accurate but it is less accurate
> than I expected.

For this purpose use like any other intelligent human being your GPS.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 02.11.23 um 21:23 schrieb Jeff Layman:
> I also never use Cloud storage.

In this case you are missing the most comfortable and most reliable way
to backup your Android on the go with Google.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Am 02.11.23 um 21:23 schrieb Jeff Layman:
> Any views about backing up an Android phone? When I used Windows, I
> regularly backed that up with Acronis or EaseUS Todo to an external
> drive. Now I'm using Linux, I backup data ("Backups") to external USB
> sticks and OS (Timeshift - not strictly a backup) to the internal HD.
> Backing up to an external drive has always been very straightforward,
> but Android seems less accommodating.
>
> I should say that I have very little need to backup my phone, as I don't
> use it for anything important. If I take any photos I want to keep, I'll
> copy them to my laptop within a day. I also never use Cloud storage.
>
> My Xiaomi phone has a built-in backup app, but of course that seems to
> require a Xiaomi account with backup to Xiaomi cloud storage. However, a
> little more digging into "Settings" reveals it can store in The Cloud,
> or locally - either as "Mobile Device - Back up and restore items on
> this device", or "Computer - Back up and restore it". However, the
> "Mobile Device" backup says "This feature allows you to backup and
> restore items using your mobile device and computer. This feature needs
> to connect to the internet and requires the following mandatory
> permissions to work:" There follows a list with accessing contacts and
> call history for backing up, and editing contacts and call history to
> restore, accessing storage for backing up files, and saving items to
> storage for restoring items (what these items are it doesn't specify.
> Are they files?). Finally it needs to access messages to back them up
> (but there's nothing about restoring them). Why does it have to do this
> through the internet, though? I have to agree to this before progressing
> to the next info page, but haven't done so, so don't know exactly how
> the computer is involved.
>
> Looking at other backup apps on Play Store or F-Droid shows how confused
> the picture is. Some backup specifics like apps, contacts, SMS/MMS
> messages, or photos, while others do several. Some state they can't
> backup data as root access is required. Some say they can backup to an
> internal card, and only then copy from that card to an external store.
>
> Why is backing up in Android apparently so complicated? Why can't I do
> as simply as I would with Windows or Linux via USB (or Wi-Fi)? And I
> haven't even looked at the issue of whether or not it is straightforward
> to restore from a backup.

Very very complicated. Drop your old habits and use Google Cloud.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 03/11/2023 05:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 02.11.23 um 21:23 schrieb Jeff Layman:
>> Any views about backing up an Android phone? When I used Windows, I
>> regularly backed that up with Acronis or EaseUS Todo to an external
>> drive. Now I'm using Linux, I backup data ("Backups") to external USB
>> sticks and OS (Timeshift - not strictly a backup) to the internal HD.
>> Backing up to an external drive has always been very straightforward,
>> but Android seems less accommodating.
>>
>> I should say that I have very little need to backup my phone, as I don't
>> use it for anything important. If I take any photos I want to keep, I'll
>> copy them to my laptop within a day. I also never use Cloud storage.
>>
>> My Xiaomi phone has a built-in backup app, but of course that seems to
>> require a Xiaomi account with backup to Xiaomi cloud storage. However, a
>> little more digging into "Settings" reveals it can store in The Cloud,
>> or locally - either as "Mobile Device - Back up and restore items on
>> this device", or "Computer - Back up and restore it". However, the
>> "Mobile Device" backup says "This feature allows you to backup and
>> restore items using your mobile device and computer. This feature needs
>> to connect to the internet and requires the following mandatory
>> permissions to work:" There follows a list with accessing contacts and
>> call history for backing up, and editing contacts and call history to
>> restore, accessing storage for backing up files, and saving items to
>> storage for restoring items (what these items are it doesn't specify.
>> Are they files?). Finally it needs to access messages to back them up
>> (but there's nothing about restoring them). Why does it have to do this
>> through the internet, though? I have to agree to this before progressing
>> to the next info page, but haven't done so, so don't know exactly how
>> the computer is involved.
>>
>> Looking at other backup apps on Play Store or F-Droid shows how confused
>> the picture is. Some backup specifics like apps, contacts, SMS/MMS
>> messages, or photos, while others do several. Some state they can't
>> backup data as root access is required. Some say they can backup to an
>> internal card, and only then copy from that card to an external store.
>>
>> Why is backing up in Android apparently so complicated? Why can't I do
>> as simply as I would with Windows or Linux via USB (or Wi-Fi)? And I
>> haven't even looked at the issue of whether or not it is straightforward
>> to restore from a backup.
>
> Very very complicated. Drop your old habits and use Google Cloud.

Nope. Google has enough of my private info without me making it simple
for them. Do you really believe that Google doesn't scan all the info
you store on their Cloud servers? From a very recent article at
<https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/google-drive-secure/#Google_Drive_privacy_issues>:

"Google has, over the years, perfected the art of surveillance
capitalism—where your data is mined and sold to advertisers, which is
then used to manipulate or influence your buying behavior."

You might also find it interesting to read the section "Relinquishing
control".

--

Jeff

Am 03.11.23 um 09:27 schrieb Jeff Layman:
> On 03/11/2023 05:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Very very complicated. Drop your old habits and use Google Cloud.
>
> Nope. Google has enough of my private info without me making it simple
> for them. Do you really believe that Google doesn't scan all the info
> you store on their Cloud servers? From a very recent article at
> <https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/google-drive-secure/#Google_Drive_privacy_issues>:

Why in the first place did you buy an Android smartphone? Google has
your data anyway.

> "Google has, over the years, perfected the art of surveillance
> capitalism—where your data is mined and sold to advertisers, which is
> then used to manipulate or influence your buying behavior."
>
> You might also find it interesting to read the section "Relinquishing
> control".

No. I use my Pixel sometimes but the really important things are done on
a different OS.

You are obviously lacking a coherent strategy. Conspiracy theories
really don't help at all.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Looking at other backup apps on Play Store or F-Droid shows how confused
> the picture is. Some backup specifics like apps, contacts, SMS/MMS
> messages, or photos, while others do several. Some state they can't
> backup data as root access is required. Some say they can backup to an
> internal card, and only then copy from that card to an external store.
>
> Why is backing up in Android apparently so complicated? Why can't I do
> as simply as I would with Windows or Linux via USB (or Wi-Fi)? And I
> haven't even looked at the issue of whether or not it is straightforward
> to restore from a backup.

The problem is that, on Windows, you can get access to all your user
files in C:\Users\username so you can backup all the user state. On
Android there are security protections in place so one app can't access
another app's files. On Windows, if you have admin rights, you can
access every file. On Android you need root for that, which is
something the system is designed to not let you have, for the same
security reasons.

So if you don't have root, you have to rely on whatever backup
mechanisms the system lets you have. That might be:

1 Individual apps 'export my data options'
2 Grabbing whatever parts of the filesystem a backup app is allowed to
access
3 adb backup (unreliable)
4 Cloud backups

For #2, Syncthing is a handy tool for syncing (parts of) the phone
storage to another machine. But it doesn't get you data which is held
by apps (eg in a database) rather than stored on your filesystem.

Theo

In message <YIy*n2tuz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes
>The problem is that, on Windows, you can get access to all your user
>files in C:\Users\username so you can backup all the user state. On
>Android there are security protections in place so one app can't access
>another app's files. On Windows, if you have admin rights, you can
>access every file. On Android you need root for that, which is
>something the system is designed to not let you have, for the same
>security reasons.
>

Am I missing something here ? If I plug my Android phone (or tablet)
into my PC using a USB lead, I can download data from it. That is
generally how I copy off photos that I want to use elsewhere. So if I
can do that for photos, what is to stop me downloading the rest of the
data on the device onto a PC, or in other words, backing it up ?

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "bulleid" with "adrian" - all mail to bulleid is rejected
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

Adrian wrote:

> If I plug my Android phone (or tablet) into my PC using a USB lead, I
> can download data from it.  That is generally how I copy off photos that
> I want to use elsewhere.  So if I can do that for photos, what is to
> stop me downloading the rest of the data on the device onto a PC

Because what you see on the PC when connected by USB are only the
folders that the phone chooses to let you see, rather than the entire
file structure.

On 11/3/2023 1:27 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:

> Do you really believe that Google doesn't scan all the info you store
> on their Cloud servers?

I think it's a philosophical question. If a HUMAN reads my stuff it
would bother me. If my stuff is bits and bytes in a SERVER somewhere,
not so much.

If you're bothered by the bits and bytes server scenario then you better
cancel all your credit cards, never use any doctors, don't drive, don't
work, don't pay taxes, in other words don't have a life. Because your
life is on dozens of servers that you have no control over whether you
use Google or not...

> <https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/google-drive-secure/#Google_Drive_privacy_issues>:

Interesting article. I liked this quote:

"For most computer users, Google Drive is more reliable, automatically
backed up, relatively safe from ransomware, and almost certainly more
secure from theft. In general, the benefits largely outweigh the risks."

> "Google has, over the years, perfected the art of surveillance
> capitalism—where your data is mined and sold to advertisers, which
> is then used to manipulate or influence your buying behavior."

They're pretty sneaky here. I've used Google Drive for years and have
yet to be able to tie any advertising to it. Where are the ads??

> You might also find it interesting to read the section
> "Relinquishing control".

Scary. Kinda like the legal mumbo-jumbo I gotta sign for a lot of
services (like the doctor). Does anybody read all those pages of
legalese before they sign...

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Adrian wrote:
>
> > If I plug my Android phone (or tablet) into my PC using a USB lead, I
> > can download data from it.  That is generally how I copy off photos that
> > I want to use elsewhere.  So if I can do that for photos, what is to
> > stop me downloading the rest of the data on the device onto a PC
>
> Because what you see on the PC when connected by USB are only the
> folders that the phone chooses to let you see, rather than the entire
> file structure.

That is true, but the USB/MTP connection to a Windows system lets you
see *more* than is available to an app on the phone.

For example with this connection, on Windows I can descend into
\Internal Storage\Android\data\net.osmand.plus\files and see all my
(.obf) OsmAnd+ maps.

If I do the same on my phone with its (Samsung) 'My Files' app (or a
similar app [1]), as soon as I try to descend into ...\data, the app
says

"Due to Android restrictions, the contents of this folder can only be
shown on a computer."

Note the nice hint to the computer! :-)

So with a USB/MTP connection to a Windows system, you can 'backup'
*more* of the Android filesystem, but it is rather cumbersome to use,
because you can only use this connection in (Windows) File Explorer and
only do *manual* copy-paste type operations. It's not a Windows drive -
it has no drive letter -, so you can not use it with other utilities,
not with 'DOS' (hence not with a .bat script), etc..

We Dutch call it (translated by Google Translate) "the law for the
preservation of misery"! :-) c.q. :-(

[1] For example the 'FX' app says '/!\ Access was denied.'.

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
[...]

> So if you don't have root, you have to rely on whatever backup
> mechanisms the system lets you have. That might be:
>
[...]
> 3 adb backup (unreliable)
[...]

Why is adb backup unreliable?

I was thinking of using 'adb pull' commands in a .bat script.

AFAIK, 'adb pull' can see as much/little of the Android filesystem as
a USB/MTP connection can (see my response to Andy).

Frank Slootweg wrote:

> So with a USB/MTP connection to a Windows system, you can 'backup'
> more of the Android filesystem, but it is rather cumbersome to use,
> because you can only use this connection in (Windows) File Explorer and
> only domanual copy-paste type operations. It's not a Windows drive -
> it has no drive letter -, so you can not use it with other utilities,
> not with 'DOS' (hence not with a .bat script), etc..

You can access the file explorer via the shell.application object within
powershell (or vbscript/javascript if that's more your thing) and the
phone shows up with a type of ssfDRIVES

<https://blog.daiyanyingyu.uk/2018/03/20/powershell-mtp>

Jeff Layman wrote:

> Any views about backing up an Android phone?

Way back, when I used to run custom firmware on my Nexus1, titanium
backup was the thing, but it required root.

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> [...]
>
> > So if you don't have root, you have to rely on whatever backup
> > mechanisms the system lets you have. That might be:
> >
> [...]
> > 3 adb backup (unreliable)
> [...]
>
> Why is adb backup unreliable?
>
> I was thinking of using 'adb pull' commands in a .bat script.
>
> AFAIK, 'adb pull' can see as much/little of the Android filesystem as
> a USB/MTP connection can (see my response to Andy).

adb backup != adb pull

'adb backup' is supposed to back up your .apks and their associated data,
ie enough to restore the app onto a second device and have it configured
as it was on the first device. It often fails - I don't know exactly
why, but it seems like Google doesn't support it any more.

'adb pull' is just a file copy, so doesn't get apps or app data (but can
get files stored by apps, which is different from app data).

Theo

On v 2023 21:42:44 +0000 (GMT) Theo wrote:
>Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>> > So if you don't have root, you have to rely on whatever backup
>> > mechanisms the system lets you have. That might be:
>> >
>> [...]
>> > 3 adb backup (unreliable)
>> [...]
>>
>> Why is adb backup unreliable?
>>
>> I was thinking of using 'adb pull' commands in a .bat script.
>>
>> AFAIK, 'adb pull' can see as much/little of the Android filesystem as
>> a USB/MTP connection can (see my response to Andy).
>
>adb backup != adb pull
>
>'adb backup' is supposed to back up your .apks and their associated data,
>ie enough to restore the app onto a second device and have it configured
>as it was on the first device. It often fails - I don't know exactly
>why, but it seems like Google doesn't support it any more.
>
>'adb pull' is just a file copy, so doesn't get apps or app data (but can
>get files stored by apps, which is different from app data).

I think I read that adb backup now works only on apps that have granted
backup permission. I don't know which Android API version changed that.
Permissions seem to change in every API.

I think it's correct that if you can adb pull from a directory then you
should be able to access it with MTP. MTP works reliably with this Samsung
tablet (with Linux) but my previous Pixel C was very temperamental. I have
scripts that pull stuff onto Linux - Windows should work too.

ISTR when I had rooted devices that an app's private data - for example
Firefox's profile - as opposed to data accessible by other apps - for
example downloads - was in /data/data/<app-id> - or something like that. I
don't think you can adb pull that, but I'm not sure. Maybe it depends on
the app's permissions (in its manifest).

--
(Remove numerics from email address)

On 2023-11-03 15:25, Adrian wrote:
> In message <YIy*n2tuz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes
>> The problem is that, on Windows, you can get access to all your user
>> files in C:\Users\username so you can backup all the user state.  On
>> Android there are security protections in place so one app can't access
>> another app's files.  On Windows, if you have admin rights, you can
>> access every file.  On Android you need root for that, which is
>> something the system is designed to not let you have, for the same
>> security reasons.
>>
>
> Am I missing something here ?  If I plug my Android phone (or tablet)
> into my PC using a USB lead, I can download data from it.  That is
> generally how I copy off photos that I want to use elsewhere.  So if I
> can do that for photos, what is to stop me downloading the rest of the
> data on the device onto a PC, or in other words, backing it up ?

Because it doesn't work.

One example I suffered some days ago.

My WhatsApp app stopped working,it would not even start after an update
while I was sleeping.

After a day, I decided to uninstall and reinstall it again, without
deleting any data.

On installation, the app ignored the messages database on the phone, and
insisting on downloading the backup from Google Drive. But it was half a
week old, so I lost some messages.

What would be a file backup be on my computer? None. WhatsApp would
ignore it, refuse to use it. So it is no use...

It did reuse the photo and media files storage, that was not lost.

(then I reconfigured WhatsApp to do daily backup. No idea why it was
set to weekly).

Some apps will accept data backups restored into the phone, but other
apps will not. And you can not restore the apps themselves as files from
the computer. There is no way to simply copy everything and restore
everything as you would do a computer, except if the phone provides a
rescue mode option from boot to do it (offline backup/restore)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 03/11/2023 09:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 03.11.23 um 09:27 schrieb Jeff Layman:
>> On 03/11/2023 05:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Very very complicated. Drop your old habits and use Google Cloud.
>>
>> Nope. Google has enough of my private info without me making it simple
>> for them. Do you really believe that Google doesn't scan all the info
>> you store on their Cloud servers? From a very recent article at
>> <https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/google-drive-secure/#Google_Drive_privacy_issues>:
>
> Why in the first place did you buy an Android smartphone? Google has
> your data anyway.

Sadly, you're probably right. I suppose I should be looking at a
Pinephone or something similar.

It never ceases to amaze me when I look at what my phone's doing that
it's sending data to someone even when I thought I'd turned it all off.
I never use Chrome, yet I see it's sending a few kB a day over wi-fi
(which I have switched off!).

>> "Google has, over the years, perfected the art of surveillance
>> capitalism—where your data is mined and sold to advertisers, which is
>> then used to manipulate or influence your buying behavior."
>>
>> You might also find it interesting to read the section "Relinquishing
>> control".
>
> No. I use my Pixel sometimes but the really important things are done on
> a different OS.

Well, we have something in common.

> You are obviously lacking a coherent strategy. Conspiracy theories
> really don't help at all.

The first sentence might be correct in relation to Android usage,
although not using it for anything important is a sensible strategy. I
doubt, however, that it's a theory any more as to what Google is doing
with personal data.

--

Jeff

On 04.11.23 09:46, Jeff Layman wrote:
> The first sentence might be correct in relation to Android usage,
> although not using it for anything important is a sensible strategy. I
> doubt, however, that it's a theory any more as to what Google is doing
> with personal data.

Perhaps you are right. It worries me to see how most users are naive.
Look at the neighbouring thread "RCS chat".

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 04/11/2023 09:01, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 04.11.23 09:46, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> The first sentence might be correct in relation to Android usage,
>> although not using it for anything important is a sensible strategy. I
>> doubt, however, that it's a theory any more as to what Google is doing
>> with personal data.
>
> Perhaps you are right. It worries me to see how most users are naive.
> Look at the neighbouring thread "RCS chat".

Interesting thread. I've just read through it all (because most of my
messaging is to iPhone users I didn't follow it for long when it first
appeared).

I do wonder about End-to-End Encryption when the encrypted message goes
through Google. They could simply be the man-in-the-middle who is able
to read the message because they set up the encryption. It might also
answer another question raised as to "what's in RCS for Google?". Well,
if they are able to read those encrypted messages it's another source of
data for them to sell that others can't read and make use of.

Or does that sound too much like another conspiracy theory? ;-)

--

Jeff

Am 04.11.23 um 11:44 schrieb Jeff Layman:
> I do wonder about End-to-End Encryption when the encrypted message goes
> through Google. They could simply be the man-in-the-middle who is able
> to read the message because they set up the encryption. It might also
> answer another question raised as to "what's in RCS for Google?".

Bingo! The world does not need Google as man-in-the-middle.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)