Looks like Riitenhouser was found innocent of all charges. And it also turns out that everyone involved in the assaults against him were career criminals. Just the sort of people to be involved in "mostly peaceful protests".

On 11/19/2021 2:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Looks like Riitenhouser was found innocent of all charges. And it also turns out that everyone involved in the assaults against him were career criminals. Just the sort of people to be involved in "mostly peaceful protests".
>

Not even distantly germane.

Wouldn't matter if Mother Theresa herself bashed his head
with a skateboard it's still self defense.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 12:57:47 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/19/2021 2:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Looks like Riitenhouser was found innocent of all charges. And it also turns out that everyone involved in the assaults against him were career criminals. Just the sort of people to be involved in "mostly peaceful protests".
> >
> Not even distantly germane.
>
> Wouldn't matter if Mother Theresa herself bashed his head
> with a skateboard it's still self defense.

Well, my comments had to do with statements made by Jay MANY times here. Because of his mostly peaceful protests in Portland, homicides are up 800% and Oregonians much to Jay's distress are refunding the police.

On 11/19/2021 3:15 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 12:57:47 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/19/2021 2:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> Looks like Riitenhouser was found innocent of all charges. And it also turns out that everyone involved in the assaults against him were career criminals. Just the sort of people to be involved in "mostly peaceful protests".
>>>
>> Not even distantly germane.
>>
>> Wouldn't matter if Mother Theresa herself bashed his head
>> with a skateboard it's still self defense.
>
> Well, my comments had to do with statements made by Jay MANY times here. Because of his mostly peaceful protests in Portland, homicides are up 800% and Oregonians much to Jay's distress are refunding the police.
>

An individual is charged and tried for a specific
incident/action. Background of participants may be relevant
to a sentencing hearing after conviction but not at trial.

If you want to discuss larger trends in the culture, that's
a different discussion. But juries (and judges) botch
decisions regularly, in both directions, such that drawing
larger meaning from those decisions is not likely to be
predictive or otherwise useful.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:08:52 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/19/2021 3:15 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 12:57:47 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 11/19/2021 2:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> Looks like Riitenhouser was found innocent of all charges. And it also turns out that everyone involved in the assaults against him were career criminals. Just the sort of people to be involved in "mostly peaceful protests".
> >>>
> >> Not even distantly germane.
> >>
> >> Wouldn't matter if Mother Theresa herself bashed his head
> >> with a skateboard it's still self defense.
> >
> > Well, my comments had to do with statements made by Jay MANY times here. Because of his mostly peaceful protests in Portland, homicides are up 800% and Oregonians much to Jay's distress are refunding the police.
> >
> An individual is charged and tried for a specific
> incident/action. Background of participants may be relevant
> to a sentencing hearing after conviction but not at trial.
>
> If you want to discuss larger trends in the culture, that's
> a different discussion. But juries (and judges) botch
> decisions regularly, in both directions, such that drawing
> larger meaning from those decisions is not likely to be
> predictive or otherwise useful.
I understand you're trying to be neutral and can appreciate that but there were full color videos and such a decision was inescapable.

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 1:15:55 PM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 12:57:47 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 11/19/2021 2:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > Looks like Riitenhouser was found innocent of all charges. And it also turns out that everyone involved in the assaults against him were career criminals. Just the sort of people to be involved in "mostly peaceful protests".
> > >
> > Not even distantly germane.
> >
> > Wouldn't matter if Mother Theresa herself bashed his head
> > with a skateboard it's still self defense.
> Well, my comments had to do with statements made by Jay MANY times here. Because of his mostly peaceful protests in Portland, homicides are up 800% and Oregonians much to Jay's distress are refunding the police.

STFU you moron. The case turned on the self-defense instruction and the evidence. I didn't hear either and have no opinion on whether the jury was right or wrong. The increased homicides in Portland have nothing to do with the protests, and yes, we are funding the policy along with other social service agencies. We are even cleaning up the homeless camps . . . slowly. It is not a shithole like Oakland.

I worked with officious little wanna-be cops like Rittenhouse when I was an ambulance driver in SJ. They'd sit around the office cleaning their Colt Pythons, which was the gun to own in the '70s. It was a miracle they didn't shoot each other or me. The last thing we need are a bunch of adolescents running around with AR15 variants making the world safe. Leave it to the professionals.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:23:57 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
>
> Leave it to the professionals.

lol. They did a fantastic job keeping that protest peaceful.

On the up side, Rittenhouse was the last minor boy Rosenbaum touched.

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:42:27 PM UTC-8, Simon S Aysdie wrote:
> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:23:57 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
> >
> > Leave it to the professionals.
> lol. They did a fantastic job keeping that protest peaceful.
>
> On the up side, Rittenhouse was the last minor boy Rosenbaum touched.

Not to mention the fact that all of those who were rioting and had any contact with Rittenhouse were known career criminals. But the case turned on the "self defense instructions" and not the opinions of the jury based on the facts.

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:42:27 PM UTC-8, Simon S Aysdie wrote:
> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:23:57 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
> >
> > Leave it to the professionals.
> lol. They did a fantastic job keeping that protest peaceful.
>
> On the up side, Rittenhouse was the last minor boy Rosenbaum touched.
By the way. Is your name Gaelic?

On 11/19/2021 4:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 1:15:55 PM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 12:57:47 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 11/19/2021 2:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> Looks like Riitenhouser was found innocent of all charges. And it also turns out that everyone involved in the assaults against him were career criminals. Just the sort of people to be involved in "mostly peaceful protests".
>>>>
>>> Not even distantly germane.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't matter if Mother Theresa herself bashed his head
>>> with a skateboard it's still self defense.
>> Well, my comments had to do with statements made by Jay MANY times here. Because of his mostly peaceful protests in Portland, homicides are up 800% and Oregonians much to Jay's distress are refunding the police.
>
> STFU you moron. The case turned on the self-defense instruction and the evidence. I didn't hear either and have no opinion on whether the jury was right or wrong. The increased homicides in Portland have nothing to do with the protests, and yes, we are funding the policy along with other social service agencies. We are even cleaning up the homeless camps . . . slowly. It is not a shithole like Oakland.
>
> I worked with officious little wanna-be cops like Rittenhouse when I was an ambulance driver in SJ. They'd sit around the office cleaning their Colt Pythons, which was the gun to own in the '70s. It was a miracle they didn't shoot each other or me. The last thing we need are a bunch of adolescents running around with AR15 variants making the world safe. Leave it to the professionals.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>
>
>

As is oft noted, "When seconds matter, 911 s just twenty
minutes away".

In Kenosha and many larger cities, business owners who had
filled the many forms, stood before endless panels for
endless permits, paid the damned property tax and all the
rest got not only no police protection but realized the next
day that standard business insurance contracts have a riot
exception.

Mayors refused to protect their taxpayers and Governors
mostly declined to intervene. Also remember that the Kenosha
riot was in August after several months of looting and
destruction, most notably in Chicago (just down the road, as
it were.)

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 3:14:15 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/19/2021 4:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 1:15:55 PM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 12:57:47 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>> On 11/19/2021 2:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> Looks like Riitenhouser was found innocent of all charges. And it also turns out that everyone involved in the assaults against him were career criminals. Just the sort of people to be involved in "mostly peaceful protests".
> >>>>
> >>> Not even distantly germane.
> >>>
> >>> Wouldn't matter if Mother Theresa herself bashed his head
> >>> with a skateboard it's still self defense.
> >> Well, my comments had to do with statements made by Jay MANY times here. Because of his mostly peaceful protests in Portland, homicides are up 800% and Oregonians much to Jay's distress are refunding the police.
> >
> > STFU you moron. The case turned on the self-defense instruction and the evidence. I didn't hear either and have no opinion on whether the jury was right or wrong. The increased homicides in Portland have nothing to do with the protests, and yes, we are funding the policy along with other social service agencies. We are even cleaning up the homeless camps . . . slowly. It is not a shithole like Oakland.
> >
> > I worked with officious little wanna-be cops like Rittenhouse when I was an ambulance driver in SJ. They'd sit around the office cleaning their Colt Pythons, which was the gun to own in the '70s. It was a miracle they didn't shoot each other or me. The last thing we need are a bunch of adolescents running around with AR15 variants making the world safe. Leave it to the professionals.
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
> >
> >
> >
> As is oft noted, "When seconds matter, 911 s just twenty
> minutes away".
>
> In Kenosha and many larger cities, business owners who had
> filled the many forms, stood before endless panels for
> endless permits, paid the damned property tax and all the
> rest got not only no police protection but realized the next
> day that standard business insurance contracts have a riot
> exception.
>
> Mayors refused to protect their taxpayers and Governors
> mostly declined to intervene. Also remember that the Kenosha
> riot was in August after several months of looting and
> destruction, most notably in Chicago (just down the road, as
> it were.)

Yes, but it wasn't a jury fed up with the likes of that useless and hopeless DA that should have his membership to the bar removed, but absolutely needless instructions from the judge that Jay thinks to have meant something absolutely different than what it did. Now, I do like Jay, he is one of the few real bicyclists here and I appreciate that. But I do not appreciate his radical left wing ideas he espouses all the time and I think that he should think of their effects on his son who has and entire lifetime to live under the crazies if they are left in office. After all I have been through, all that I have seen, all that I have accomplished despite whatever politics were in at the time, I can put up with anything. But I don't expect to be around more than another 10 years. And Jay's son could have anther 60. This has always been my view of politics - to make this country habitable to those we leave behind.

On 11/19/2021 4:56 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:42:27 PM UTC-8, Simon S Aysdie wrote:
>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:23:57 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
>>>
>>> Leave it to the professionals.
>> lol. They did a fantastic job keeping that protest peaceful.
>>
>> On the up side, Rittenhouse was the last minor boy Rosenbaum touched.
>
> Not to mention the fact that all of those who were rioting and had any contact with Rittenhouse were known career criminals. But the case turned on the "self defense instructions" and not the opinions of the jury based on the facts.
>

WTF? What ever do you mean?

Judge reviewed statutory language and provisions for the
jury. Wisconsin statutes, not New York and not Texas either.
Also not the TeeVee version nor something from a novel, no
matter how well that novel sold.

How can a review of the actual statute not comport with 'the
facts'? What the hell would you suggest for some alternate
standard apart from judging the facts as presented within
the language of the statutes?

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 3:34:02 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/19/2021 4:56 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:42:27 PM UTC-8, Simon S Aysdie wrote:
> >> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:23:57 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Leave it to the professionals.
> >> lol. They did a fantastic job keeping that protest peaceful.
> >>
> >> On the up side, Rittenhouse was the last minor boy Rosenbaum touched.
> >
> > Not to mention the fact that all of those who were rioting and had any contact with Rittenhouse were known career criminals. But the case turned on the "self defense instructions" and not the opinions of the jury based on the facts.
> >
> WTF? What ever do you mean?
>
> Judge reviewed statutory language and provisions for the
> jury. Wisconsin statutes, not New York and not Texas either.
> Also not the TeeVee version nor something from a novel, no
> matter how well that novel sold.
>
> How can a review of the actual statute not comport with 'the
> facts'? What the hell would you suggest for some alternate
> standard apart from judging the facts as presented within
> the language of the statutes?

Instructions to the jury are merely a required technicality and juried form their own opinions from the facts as they see them. I have sat on many juries since so few answer the call to jury duty and have saw lawyers watching the jury closely and often, OFTEN, pleaing a deal rather than putting his case before the jury. 12 men good and true are more likely to ferret out the truth than all of the lawyers in the world.

On 11/19/2021 6:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> In Kenosha and many larger cities, business owners who had filled the
> many forms, stood before endless panels for endless permits, paid the
> damned property tax and all the rest got not only no police protection
> but realized the next day that standard business insurance contracts
> have a riot exception.

While I have great sympathy for the business owners and none for the
rioters, I wonder: Isn't it the business owner's responsibility to know
what's in their insurance contract?

And if they were smart enough to know there's a likelihood of riots,
wouldn't it be possible to buy riot coverage? That would be market
forces at work, solving problems!

In fact, those who, like Tom, are positive that society is crashing
should take some of the money out of their "prepper" funds, and start a
specialized insurance company offering riot coverage. It looks like a
juicy market, since the paranoia greatly exceeds the problem. They'd
only have to pay out once in a great while.

Cash in on the doom and gloom posts here! Talk about guerilla marketing!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 3:14:15 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/19/2021 4:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 1:15:55 PM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 12:57:47 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>> On 11/19/2021 2:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> Looks like Riitenhouser was found innocent of all charges. And it also turns out that everyone involved in the assaults against him were career criminals. Just the sort of people to be involved in "mostly peaceful protests".
> >>>>
> >>> Not even distantly germane.
> >>>
> >>> Wouldn't matter if Mother Theresa herself bashed his head
> >>> with a skateboard it's still self defense.
> >> Well, my comments had to do with statements made by Jay MANY times here. Because of his mostly peaceful protests in Portland, homicides are up 800% and Oregonians much to Jay's distress are refunding the police.
> >
> > STFU you moron. The case turned on the self-defense instruction and the evidence. I didn't hear either and have no opinion on whether the jury was right or wrong. The increased homicides in Portland have nothing to do with the protests, and yes, we are funding the policy along with other social service agencies. We are even cleaning up the homeless camps . . . slowly. It is not a shithole like Oakland.
> >
> > I worked with officious little wanna-be cops like Rittenhouse when I was an ambulance driver in SJ. They'd sit around the office cleaning their Colt Pythons, which was the gun to own in the '70s. It was a miracle they didn't shoot each other or me. The last thing we need are a bunch of adolescents running around with AR15 variants making the world safe. Leave it to the professionals.
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
> >
> >
> >
> As is oft noted, "When seconds matter, 911 s just twenty
> minutes away".

> In Kenosha and many larger cities, business owners who had
> filled the many forms, stood before endless panels for
> endless permits, paid the damned property tax and all the
> rest got not only no police protection but realized the next
> day that standard business insurance contracts have a riot
> exception.
>
> Mayors refused to protect their taxpayers and Governors
> mostly declined to intervene. Also remember that the Kenosha
> riot was in August after several months of looting and
> destruction, most notably in Chicago (just down the road, as
> it were.)

Mayors and governors have resources at their disposal, including National Guard. Armed vigilantes are just another group of provocateurs that have to be controlled by legitimate law enforcement. It is illegal to use lethal force to protect third-party property -- in any state. Why are people showing up uninvited, with rifles to protect third-party property? Well, because they wanted to rumble. I saw that scenario repeated nightly for months with Proud Boys/Patriot Prayer versus Antifa -- or more acutely with the self-described anarchists. The supposed defenders of freedom and liberty were just more gas on the fire. I wish we could have gotten some D9s and scraped the whole lot of them into the river. If people are serious about protecting their communities, then become police reserve or volunteer in some organized way for legitimate law enforcement. Rittenhouse and his ilk are just dangerous Don Quixotes.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 3:46:22 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 11/19/2021 6:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >
> > In Kenosha and many larger cities, business owners who had filled the
> > many forms, stood before endless panels for endless permits, paid the
> > damned property tax and all the rest got not only no police protection
> > but realized the next day that standard business insurance contracts
> > have a riot exception.
> While I have great sympathy for the business owners and none for the
> rioters, I wonder: Isn't it the business owner's responsibility to know
> what's in their insurance contract?
>
> And if they were smart enough to know there's a likelihood of riots,
> wouldn't it be possible to buy riot coverage? That would be market
> forces at work, solving problems!
>
> In fact, those who, like Tom, are positive that society is crashing
> should take some of the money out of their "prepper" funds, and start a
> specialized insurance company offering riot coverage. It looks like a
> juicy market, since the paranoia greatly exceeds the problem. They'd
> only have to pay out once in a great while.
>
> Cash in on the doom and gloom posts here! Talk about guerilla marketing!
Frank, you have NO OPTIONS when buying business insurance. They tell you what they will put in the policy and you take it or leave it and you can't leave it because you are legally obligated to have full liability. You can't get home insurance in California that includes earthquake insurance unless you're willing to pay over twice the given policy costs. Few businesses can even afford normal insurance let along the staggering costs you would pay for possible riot damage. That is why most of the businesses in Berkeley are boarded up with the entire facings now completely covered with 1/2" plywood. How long do you suppose that a business like that could survive? The store fronts are their only real advertising tool. A few blocks from my home in a supposed completely safe area a man's commercial garage was broken into and all of his tools stolen. So he is now gone. The man that I relied upon for all of my mechanical work for the 20 years is now gone. And who is still there? The Chinese who were in their stores with loaded guns.

On 11/19/2021 5:31 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 3:14:15 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/19/2021 4:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 1:15:55 PM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 12:57:47 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 11/19/2021 2:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> Looks like Riitenhouser was found innocent of all charges. And it also turns out that everyone involved in the assaults against him were career criminals. Just the sort of people to be involved in "mostly peaceful protests".
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not even distantly germane.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wouldn't matter if Mother Theresa herself bashed his head
>>>>> with a skateboard it's still self defense.
>>>> Well, my comments had to do with statements made by Jay MANY times here. Because of his mostly peaceful protests in Portland, homicides are up 800% and Oregonians much to Jay's distress are refunding the police.
>>>
>>> STFU you moron. The case turned on the self-defense instruction and the evidence. I didn't hear either and have no opinion on whether the jury was right or wrong. The increased homicides in Portland have nothing to do with the protests, and yes, we are funding the policy along with other social service agencies. We are even cleaning up the homeless camps . . . slowly. It is not a shithole like Oakland.
>>>
>>> I worked with officious little wanna-be cops like Rittenhouse when I was an ambulance driver in SJ. They'd sit around the office cleaning their Colt Pythons, which was the gun to own in the '70s. It was a miracle they didn't shoot each other or me. The last thing we need are a bunch of adolescents running around with AR15 variants making the world safe. Leave it to the professionals.
>>>
>>> -- Jay Beattie.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> As is oft noted, "When seconds matter, 911 s just twenty
>> minutes away".
>>
>> In Kenosha and many larger cities, business owners who had
>> filled the many forms, stood before endless panels for
>> endless permits, paid the damned property tax and all the
>> rest got not only no police protection but realized the next
>> day that standard business insurance contracts have a riot
>> exception.
>>
>> Mayors refused to protect their taxpayers and Governors
>> mostly declined to intervene. Also remember that the Kenosha
>> riot was in August after several months of looting and
>> destruction, most notably in Chicago (just down the road, as
>> it were.)
>
> Yes, but it wasn't a jury fed up with the likes of that useless and hopeless DA that should have his membership to the bar removed, but absolutely needless instructions from the judge that Jay thinks to have meant something absolutely different than what it did. Now, I do like Jay, he is one of the few real bicyclists here and I appreciate that. But I do not appreciate his radical left wing ideas he espouses all the time and I think that he should think of their effects on his son who has and entire lifetime to live under the crazies if they are left in office. After all I have been through, all that I have seen, all that I have accomplished despite whatever politics were in at the time, I can put up with anything. But I don't expect to be around more than another 10 years. And Jay's son could have anther 60. This has always been my view of politics - to make this country habitable to those we leave behind.
>

You're entitled to your own opinion whatever it is.

But I didn't see this as snark or personality or ideology.
Again, you may but I don't.

A dispassionate person who saw the many videos from many
angles and understood the statutes would have acquitted.
Whether the assistant DA was an articulate genius or a
bumbling putz should not matter.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 3:51:18 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 3:14:15 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 11/19/2021 4:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 1:15:55 PM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 12:57:47 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>> On 11/19/2021 2:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>> Looks like Riitenhouser was found innocent of all charges. And it also turns out that everyone involved in the assaults against him were career criminals. Just the sort of people to be involved in "mostly peaceful protests".
> > >>>>
> > >>> Not even distantly germane.
> > >>>
> > >>> Wouldn't matter if Mother Theresa herself bashed his head
> > >>> with a skateboard it's still self defense.
> > >> Well, my comments had to do with statements made by Jay MANY times here. Because of his mostly peaceful protests in Portland, homicides are up 800% and Oregonians much to Jay's distress are refunding the police.
> > >
> > > STFU you moron. The case turned on the self-defense instruction and the evidence. I didn't hear either and have no opinion on whether the jury was right or wrong. The increased homicides in Portland have nothing to do with the protests, and yes, we are funding the policy along with other social service agencies. We are even cleaning up the homeless camps . . . slowly.. It is not a shithole like Oakland.
> > >
> > > I worked with officious little wanna-be cops like Rittenhouse when I was an ambulance driver in SJ. They'd sit around the office cleaning their Colt Pythons, which was the gun to own in the '70s. It was a miracle they didn't shoot each other or me. The last thing we need are a bunch of adolescents running around with AR15 variants making the world safe. Leave it to the professionals.
> > >
> > > -- Jay Beattie.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > As is oft noted, "When seconds matter, 911 s just twenty
> > minutes away".
>
> > In Kenosha and many larger cities, business owners who had
> > filled the many forms, stood before endless panels for
> > endless permits, paid the damned property tax and all the
> > rest got not only no police protection but realized the next
> > day that standard business insurance contracts have a riot
> > exception.
> >
> > Mayors refused to protect their taxpayers and Governors
> > mostly declined to intervene. Also remember that the Kenosha
> > riot was in August after several months of looting and
> > destruction, most notably in Chicago (just down the road, as
> > it were.)
> Mayors and governors have resources at their disposal, including National Guard. Armed vigilantes are just another group of provocateurs that have to be controlled by legitimate law enforcement. It is illegal to use lethal force to protect third-party property -- in any state. Why are people showing up uninvited, with rifles to protect third-party property? Well, because they wanted to rumble. I saw that scenario repeated nightly for months with Proud Boys/Patriot Prayer versus Antifa -- or more acutely with the self-described anarchists. The supposed defenders of freedom and liberty were just more gas on the fire. I wish we could have gotten some D9s and scraped the whole lot of them into the river. If people are serious about protecting their communities, then become police reserve or volunteer in some organized way for legitimate law enforcement. Rittenhouse and his ilk are just dangerous Don Quixotes.

Jay, that sounds good until you discover that the Democrat Governors do absolutely NOTHING while rifling the state treasuries. Why don't you know that Biden pushed multi- millions of dollars to his brother in his time in the Senate? That he got his son, a known narcotics addict into the Navy AS AN OFFICER on a nuclear submarine? I think that you should wake up and smell the roses. The Democrat Party is and always will be the party of racism and slavery. The ONLY reason they got to the point where they're at today is because they backed the Unions. Originally the unions were good for Americans. But that rapidly degenerated into the haves and have-nots and has stayed that way to the point where unions are not wanted by most workers except very limited areas.

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 4:07:47 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/19/2021 5:31 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 3:14:15 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 11/19/2021 4:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> >>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 1:15:55 PM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 12:57:47 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>> On 11/19/2021 2:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>> Looks like Riitenhouser was found innocent of all charges. And it also turns out that everyone involved in the assaults against him were career criminals. Just the sort of people to be involved in "mostly peaceful protests".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Not even distantly germane.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wouldn't matter if Mother Theresa herself bashed his head
> >>>>> with a skateboard it's still self defense.
> >>>> Well, my comments had to do with statements made by Jay MANY times here. Because of his mostly peaceful protests in Portland, homicides are up 800% and Oregonians much to Jay's distress are refunding the police.
> >>>
> >>> STFU you moron. The case turned on the self-defense instruction and the evidence. I didn't hear either and have no opinion on whether the jury was right or wrong. The increased homicides in Portland have nothing to do with the protests, and yes, we are funding the policy along with other social service agencies. We are even cleaning up the homeless camps . . . slowly.. It is not a shithole like Oakland.
> >>>
> >>> I worked with officious little wanna-be cops like Rittenhouse when I was an ambulance driver in SJ. They'd sit around the office cleaning their Colt Pythons, which was the gun to own in the '70s. It was a miracle they didn't shoot each other or me. The last thing we need are a bunch of adolescents running around with AR15 variants making the world safe. Leave it to the professionals.
> >>>
> >>> -- Jay Beattie.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> As is oft noted, "When seconds matter, 911 s just twenty
> >> minutes away".
> >>
> >> In Kenosha and many larger cities, business owners who had
> >> filled the many forms, stood before endless panels for
> >> endless permits, paid the damned property tax and all the
> >> rest got not only no police protection but realized the next
> >> day that standard business insurance contracts have a riot
> >> exception.
> >>
> >> Mayors refused to protect their taxpayers and Governors
> >> mostly declined to intervene. Also remember that the Kenosha
> >> riot was in August after several months of looting and
> >> destruction, most notably in Chicago (just down the road, as
> >> it were.)
> >
> > Yes, but it wasn't a jury fed up with the likes of that useless and hopeless DA that should have his membership to the bar removed, but absolutely needless instructions from the judge that Jay thinks to have meant something absolutely different than what it did. Now, I do like Jay, he is one of the few real bicyclists here and I appreciate that. But I do not appreciate his radical left wing ideas he espouses all the time and I think that he should think of their effects on his son who has and entire lifetime to live under the crazies if they are left in office. After all I have been through, all that I have seen, all that I have accomplished despite whatever politics were in at the time, I can put up with anything. But I don't expect to be around more than another 10 years. And Jay's son could have anther 60. This has always been my view of politics - to make this country habitable to those we leave behind.
> >
> You're entitled to your own opinion whatever it is.
>
> But I didn't see this as snark or personality or ideology.
> Again, you may but I don't.
>
> A dispassionate person who saw the many videos from many
> angles and understood the statutes would have acquitted.
> Whether the assistant DA was an articulate genius or a
> bumbling putz should not matter.
Well, I don't know what you mean by "snark". Jay is a lawyer and tends to think in terms of "we smart and you dumb" just serve on any jury and you very soon see that.

As to the results of the trial we are in complete agreement.

On 11/19/2021 5:51 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 3:14:15 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/19/2021 4:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 1:15:55 PM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 12:57:47 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 11/19/2021 2:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> Looks like Riitenhouser was found innocent of all charges. And it also turns out that everyone involved in the assaults against him were career criminals. Just the sort of people to be involved in "mostly peaceful protests".
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not even distantly germane.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wouldn't matter if Mother Theresa herself bashed his head
>>>>> with a skateboard it's still self defense.
>>>> Well, my comments had to do with statements made by Jay MANY times here. Because of his mostly peaceful protests in Portland, homicides are up 800% and Oregonians much to Jay's distress are refunding the police.
>>>
>>> STFU you moron. The case turned on the self-defense instruction and the evidence. I didn't hear either and have no opinion on whether the jury was right or wrong. The increased homicides in Portland have nothing to do with the protests, and yes, we are funding the policy along with other social service agencies. We are even cleaning up the homeless camps . . . slowly. It is not a shithole like Oakland.
>>>
>>> I worked with officious little wanna-be cops like Rittenhouse when I was an ambulance driver in SJ. They'd sit around the office cleaning their Colt Pythons, which was the gun to own in the '70s. It was a miracle they didn't shoot each other or me. The last thing we need are a bunch of adolescents running around with AR15 variants making the world safe. Leave it to the professionals.
>>>
>>> -- Jay Beattie.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> As is oft noted, "When seconds matter, 911 s just twenty
>> minutes away".
>
>> In Kenosha and many larger cities, business owners who had
>> filled the many forms, stood before endless panels for
>> endless permits, paid the damned property tax and all the
>> rest got not only no police protection but realized the next
>> day that standard business insurance contracts have a riot
>> exception.
>>
>> Mayors refused to protect their taxpayers and Governors
>> mostly declined to intervene. Also remember that the Kenosha
>> riot was in August after several months of looting and
>> destruction, most notably in Chicago (just down the road, as
>> it were.)
>
> Mayors and governors have resources at their disposal, including National Guard. Armed vigilantes are just another group of provocateurs that have to be controlled by legitimate law enforcement. It is illegal to use lethal force to protect third-party property -- in any state. Why are people showing up uninvited, with rifles to protect third-party property? Well, because they wanted to rumble. I saw that scenario repeated nightly for months with Proud Boys/Patriot Prayer versus Antifa -- or more acutely with the self-described anarchists. The supposed defenders of freedom and liberty were just more gas on the fire. I wish we could have gotten some D9s and scraped the whole lot of them into the river. If people are serious about protecting their communities, then become police reserve or volunteer in some organized way for legitimate law enforcement. Rittenhouse and his ilk are just dangerous Don Quixotes.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>

I was going to just drop it but that is exactly the problem.
Mayors and Governors do have resources. And taxpayers expect
civil order. If only.

In Chicago 1968 Da Mare, Richard J Daly brought out his full
force along with mutual aid from surrounding cities and Cook
County sheriffs. Mr Shapiro activated his Guard.

https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/3/hippie-confronts-national-guard-chicago-1968-daniel-hagerman.jpg

(my memory of that week is in neon technicolor but press
photos of the era are merely B/W)

In 2020, cities were destroyed by smaller crowds than we
were then and Mayors from Warren Wilhelm to Mayor Munchkin
and all the rest pulled their forces off the street,
declined to intervene and by August a lot of USAians had
seen that pattern in enough iterations to react.

The tenant at our old location, a Syrian Christian
immigrant, kept rioters out of his place with a sword. He
stood in his doorway against a mob with a sword. The other 8
blocks of the street were bashed broken and looted.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 10:42:27 PM UTC, Simon S Aysdie wrote:
> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 2:23:57 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
> >
> > Leave it to the professionals.
> lol. They did a fantastic job keeping that protest peaceful.
>
> On the up side, Rittenhouse was the last minor boy Rosenbaum touched.

..
Jay's a lawyer for rich corporations. He specializes in being on the wrong side. But he's an okay cyclist.
..
Andre Jute
Not crying a single tear for a rioting pederast or a rioting rapist off by a teenage they were assaulting.

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 3:51:18 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 3:14:15 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 11/19/2021 4:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > ...
> > > ... I didn't hear either and have no opinion on whether the jury was right or wrong. ...

It is pretty easy to know if they got it right.

> > > ...
> > >
> > As is oft noted, "When seconds matter, 911 s just twenty
> > minutes away".
>
> > In Kenosha and many larger cities, business owners who had
> > filled the many forms, stood before endless panels for
> > endless permits, paid the damned property tax and all the
> > rest got not only no police protection but realized the next
> > day that standard business insurance contracts have a riot
> > exception.
> >
> > Mayors refused to protect their taxpayers and Governors
> > mostly declined to intervene. Also remember that the Kenosha
> > riot was in August after several months of looting and
> > destruction, most notably in Chicago (just down the road, as
> > it were.)
>
> Mayors and governors have resources at their disposal, including National Guard.

Non-responsive. Evasive.

They do, but they didn't. Evers even turned down an offer of federal assistance. He is a very cold, cruel, and callous individual--people suffered. The crime and chaos was totally predictable. He must have wanted it to happen.. That's the "why" question to ask.

https://politicalpatrol.com/2020/08/26/two-killed-during-riots-in-wisconsin-as-democrat-governor-refuses-federal-assistance-2/

“While the damage to my office pales in comparison to the destruction of property and livelihoods happening in both Madison and Kenosha, it is emblematic of the growing disregard for the rule of law by some elected officials.”

I can't imagine why people would think it was finally up to them, even if misguided. No idea. It is a real puzzle. <as the looted city burns in the background>

looting is justice
racism is equity
war is peace
slavery is freedom
ignorance is strength

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 5:23:11 PM UTC-8, Simon S Aysdie wrote:
> On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 3:51:18 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 3:14:15 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 11/19/2021 4:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > ... I didn't hear either and have no opinion on whether the jury was right or wrong. ...
>
> It is pretty easy to know if they got it right.
>
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > As is oft noted, "When seconds matter, 911 s just twenty
> > > minutes away".
> >
> > > In Kenosha and many larger cities, business owners who had
> > > filled the many forms, stood before endless panels for
> > > endless permits, paid the damned property tax and all the
> > > rest got not only no police protection but realized the next
> > > day that standard business insurance contracts have a riot
> > > exception.
> > >
> > > Mayors refused to protect their taxpayers and Governors
> > > mostly declined to intervene. Also remember that the Kenosha
> > > riot was in August after several months of looting and
> > > destruction, most notably in Chicago (just down the road, as
> > > it were.)
> >
> > Mayors and governors have resources at their disposal, including National Guard.
> Non-responsive. Evasive.
>
> They do, but they didn't. Evers even turned down an offer of federal assistance. He is a very cold, cruel, and callous individual--people suffered. The crime and chaos was totally predictable. He must have wanted it to happen. That's the "why" question to ask.
>
> https://politicalpatrol.com/2020/08/26/two-killed-during-riots-in-wisconsin-as-democrat-governor-refuses-federal-assistance-2/
>
> “While the damage to my office pales in comparison to the destruction of property and livelihoods happening in both Madison and Kenosha, it is emblematic of the growing disregard for the rule of law by some elected officials.”
>
> I can't imagine why people would think it was finally up to them, even if misguided. No idea. It is a real puzzle. <as the looted city burns in the background>
>
> looting is justice
> racism is equity
> war is peace
> slavery is freedom
> ignorance is strength
Amen. The time of the destruction of the Democrat party is near at hand. There isn't enough fraud they can raise against the American people.

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 11:46:22 PM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 11/19/2021 6:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:

> In fact, those who, like Tom, are positive that society is crashing
> should take some of the money out of their "prepper" funds, and start a
> specialized insurance company offering riot coverage. It looks like a
> juicy market, since the paranoia greatly exceeds the problem. They'd
> only have to pay out once in a great while.
>
Frank-boy, there are times when you should keep those loose lips of your firmly clamped. We have seen repeatedly that you don't know shit about statistics and their uses, except the lying variety you're so attached to. And now we see that you don't know shit about what's happening in your country. Billions in property damage but Franki-boy Krygowski, a jumped-up oily rag, thinks "the paranoia greatly exceeds the problem".

Lord, help us when fools are abroad.

AndreJute
There's no greater fool than the willfully blind.

On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 5:21:05 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:

> Jay's a lawyer for rich corporations. He specializes in being on the wrong side. But he's an okay cyclist.

lol

Burning neighborhoods is a peasant problem. Jay leans back and voices his theories, sipping wine with brie and crackers at the nouveau suburban cafe.