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tech / rec.crafts.metalworking / Pressed-together crankshafts

SubjectAuthor
* Pressed-together crankshaftsbob prohaska
+* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJohn B.
|`* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsClare Snyder
| +* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJohn B.
| |+- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJim Wilkins
| |`- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsClare Snyder
| `- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsSnag
+- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsLeon Fisk
+- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJim Wilkins
+* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJim Wilkins
|+- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsbob prohaska
|`* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsDavid Billington
| +* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsbob prohaska
| |`- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJim Wilkins
| `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsBob Engelhardt
|  `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJim Wilkins
|   `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsCydrome Leader
|    `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsClare Snyder
|     +- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJim Wilkins
|     `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsCydrome Leader
|      `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsClare Snyder
|       `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsCydrome Leader
|        `- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsClare Snyder
`* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsEd Huntress
 +* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsDavid Billington
 |`* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsEd Huntress
 | +- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsGerry
 | `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJoe Gwinn
 |  `- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsEd Huntress
 +* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJim Wilkins
 |`* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsEd Huntress
 | `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJim Wilkins
 |  `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsEd Huntress
 |   `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsDavid Billington
 |    `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsEd Huntress
 |     `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsDavid Billington
 |      +* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsEd Huntress
 |      |+* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsDavid Billington
 |      ||`* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsEd Huntress
 |      || +* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsDavid Billington
 |      || |`* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsEd Huntress
 |      || | +* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsDavid Billington
 |      || | |`- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsEd Huntress
 |      || | `- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJim Wilkins
 |      || `- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsGerry
 |      |`* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJim Wilkins
 |      | `- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsEd Huntress
 |      `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsRichard Smith
 |       +* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsEd Huntress
 |       |`- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJim Wilkins
 |       +* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJim Wilkins
 |       |`* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsRichard Smith
 |       | +- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJim Wilkins
 |       | +- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsJim Wilkins
 |       | `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsClare Snyder
 |       |  `* Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsRichard Smith
 |       |   `- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsEd Huntress
 |       `- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsClare Snyder
 `- Re: Pressed-together crankshaftsSpehro Pefhany

Pages:123
Pressed-together crankshafts

<sb8nuo$bq9$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=4701&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#4701

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From: bp...@www.zefox.net (bob prohaska)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:31:53 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Summary: How strong are pressed-together cranks?
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 by: bob prohaska - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:31 UTC

Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
common in very small engines, some of which seem
rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
high-production types where tooling costs matter
less than per-part costs.

For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

<e8rfdg1tm0ir40gnu6edm5kskrg6esbo16@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=4702&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#4702

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From: slocom...@gmail.com (John B.)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 10:16:32 +0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: John B. - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 03:16 UTC

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:31:53 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
<bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

>Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
>common in very small engines, some of which seem
>rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
>larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
>high-production types where tooling costs matter
>less than per-part costs.
>
>For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
>one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
>a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
>of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
>diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
>
>Thanks for reading,
>
>bob prohaska
>

Isn't a Harley Davidson crankshaft "built up" and simply pressed
together?
--
Cheers,

John B.

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

<4v1gdg1q6ole860r3ee1fkmmk3k988sm6t@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=4703&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#4703

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From: cla...@snyder.on.ca (Clare Snyder)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 01:11:59 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Clare Snyder - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 05:11 UTC

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 10:16:32 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:31:53 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
><bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
>
>>Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
>>common in very small engines, some of which seem
>>rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
>>larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
>>high-production types where tooling costs matter
>>less than per-part costs.
>>
>>For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
>>one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
>>a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
>>of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
>>diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
>>
>>Thanks for reading,
>>
>>bob prohaska
>>
>
>Isn't a Harley Davidson crankshaft "built up" and simply pressed
>together?
Not sure about Harley but MANY Motorcycle cranks are and many 2
stroke cranks. They work pretty good in applications where there is
not much chance of impact / shock loads which have a tendancy to twist
built-up cranks out of true. They are also used in applications where
comnpactmess is required and there is no room for bolted split-cap
rods

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

<m86gdg5ui2j3eijjd7ter0ese4821sp5n3@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=4704&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#4704

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From: slocom...@gmail.com (John B.)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:24:05 +0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: John B. - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 06:24 UTC

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 01:11:59 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:

>On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 10:16:32 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:31:53 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
>><bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
>>>common in very small engines, some of which seem
>>>rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
>>>larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
>>>high-production types where tooling costs matter
>>>less than per-part costs.
>>>
>>>For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
>>>one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
>>>a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
>>>of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
>>>diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
>>>
>>>Thanks for reading,
>>>
>>>bob prohaska
>>>
>>
>>Isn't a Harley Davidson crankshaft "built up" and simply pressed
>>together?
> Not sure about Harley but MANY Motorcycle cranks are and many 2
>stroke cranks. They work pretty good in applications where there is
>not much chance of impact / shock loads which have a tendancy to twist
>built-up cranks out of true. They are also used in applications where
>comnpactmess is required and there is no room for bolted split-cap
>rods

From memory I believe that some single row radial aircraft engines
also had built up cranks although I don't remember how they were
assembled.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

<sb9lka$va1$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=4706&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#4706

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 06:58:12 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 10:58 UTC

"John B." wrote in message
news:m86gdg5ui2j3eijjd7ter0ese4821sp5n3@4ax.com...

From memory I believe that some single row radial aircraft engines
also had built up cranks although I don't remember how they were
assembled.
--
Cheers,

John B.
----------------------------------

http://www.enginehistory.org/engines.shtml

Open "No Short Days"

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

<sba2lf$bnn$1@dont-email.me>

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From: lfis...@gmail.invalid (Leon Fisk)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 10:40:47 -0400
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 by: Leon Fisk - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 14:40 UTC

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:31:53 -0000 (UTC)
bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

>Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
>common in very small engines, some of which seem
>rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
>larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
>high-production types where tooling costs matter
>less than per-part costs.
>
>For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
>one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
>a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
>of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
>diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
>
>Thanks for reading,
>
>bob prohaska
>

You can make one piece with big-ass power hammer and hot steel ;-)

https://youtu.be/8bT6txm4RpA?t=703

Cool old video, the whole thing is interesting if you haven't already
seen it...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

<sba98j$dl3$1@dont-email.me>

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 12:33:16 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 16:33 UTC

"bob prohaska" wrote in message news:sb8nuo$bq9$1@dont-email.me...

Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
common in very small engines, some of which seem
rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
high-production types where tooling costs matter
less than per-part costs.

For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

---------------------------
https://www.dieselarmy.com/engine-tech/engine/dynamic-diesels-inside-the-worlds-largest-engine/

".. it exceeds 50% thermal efficiency in its maximum economy mode."

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

<i8lhdgpsv0ml7fb2irn25mjg16spjc5guc@4ax.com>

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From: cla...@snyder.on.ca (Clare Snyder)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 15:44:50 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Clare Snyder - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 19:44 UTC

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:24:05 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 01:11:59 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 10:16:32 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:31:53 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
>>><bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
>>>>common in very small engines, some of which seem
>>>>rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
>>>>larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
>>>>high-production types where tooling costs matter
>>>>less than per-part costs.
>>>>
>>>>For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
>>>>one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
>>>>a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
>>>>of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
>>>>diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for reading,
>>>>
>>>>bob prohaska
>>>>
>>>
>>>Isn't a Harley Davidson crankshaft "built up" and simply pressed
>>>together?
>> Not sure about Harley but MANY Motorcycle cranks are and many 2
>>stroke cranks. They work pretty good in applications where there is
>>not much chance of impact / shock loads which have a tendancy to twist
>>built-up cranks out of true. They are also used in applications where
>>comnpactmess is required and there is no room for bolted split-cap
>>rods
>
>From memory I believe that some single row radial aircraft engines
>also had built up cranks although I don't remember how they were
>assembled.
Another application where there was no room for bolted split cap rods.

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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From: Snag_...@msn.com (Snag)
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Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 06:30:14 -0500
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 by: Snag - Thu, 1 Jul 2021 11:30 UTC

On 6/27/2021 12:11 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 10:16:32 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 02:31:53 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
>> <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
>>> common in very small engines, some of which seem
>>> rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
>>> larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
>>> high-production types where tooling costs matter
>>> less than per-part costs.
>>>
>>> For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
>>> one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
>>> a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
>>> of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
>>> diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
>>>
>>> Thanks for reading,
>>>
>>> bob prohaska
>>>
>>
>> Isn't a Harley Davidson crankshaft "built up" and simply pressed
>> together?
> Not sure about Harley but MANY Motorcycle cranks are and many 2
> stroke cranks. They work pretty good in applications where there is
> not much chance of impact / shock loads which have a tendancy to twist
> built-up cranks out of true. They are also used in applications where
> comnpactmess is required and there is no room for bolted split-cap
> rods
>

The newer Harley motors are using a pressed together crankshaft , the
older ones used a bolted assembly with tapered joints located with keys
.. The newer ones have evidenced a tendency to twist at low RPM/heavy
throttle . I know my 1990 has a bolted crank assembly , not sure about
the 2009 Sporty but I think it was before the bean counters "improved
the profit margin" .
--
Snag
Race only matters to racists ...

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
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Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 17:40:35 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Thu, 1 Jul 2021 21:40 UTC

"bob prohaska" wrote in message news:sb8nuo$bq9$1@dont-email.me...

For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
a built-up crank have a chance?

-------------------------------

https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/making-a-builtup-crankshaft.10838/

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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From: bp...@www.zefox.net (bob prohaska)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 02:32:40 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: bob prohaska - Fri, 2 Jul 2021 02:32 UTC

Jim Wilkins <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
> "bob prohaska" wrote in message news:sb8nuo$bq9$1@dont-email.me...
>
> For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
> one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
> a built-up crank have a chance?
>
> -------------------------------
>
> https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/making-a-builtup-crankshaft.10838/

Very impressive photos. Thanks for posting!

bob prohaska

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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From: djb...@invalid.com (David Billington)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 23:04:32 +0100
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 by: David Billington - Fri, 2 Jul 2021 22:04 UTC

On 01/07/2021 22:40, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "bob prohaska"  wrote in message news:sb8nuo$bq9$1@dont-email.me...
>
> For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
> one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
> a built-up crank have a chance?
>
> -------------------------------
>
> https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/making-a-builtup-crankshaft.10838/
>
>
I couldn't find any information on whether the Wartsila engine was a
built up crank but the Doxford ship engine was, some info here
http://www.dieselduck.info/historical/01%20diesel%20engine/Doxford/works.htm
and repairing the damage due to not doing the correct engine starting
procedure resulting in slippage of the shrink fit crank
http://www.waghornswood.net.nz/Manuals_01_18/Interesting/The_realignment_afloat_of_a_ships_main_engine_crankshaft.pdf
.. I mentioned that incident to a neighbour's friend who had worked for
BOC and he said he had been involved in a similar fix in the docks at
Bristol UK.

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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From: bp...@www.zefox.net (bob prohaska)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 19:12:07 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: bob prohaska - Sat, 3 Jul 2021 19:12 UTC

David Billington <djb@invalid.com> wrote:
> On 01/07/2021 22:40, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "bob prohaska"? wrote in message news:sb8nuo$bq9$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>> For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
>> one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
>> a built-up crank have a chance?
>>
>> -------------------------------
>>
>> https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/making-a-builtup-crankshaft.10838/
>>
>>
> I couldn't find any information on whether the Wartsila engine was a
> built up crank but the Doxford ship engine was, some info here
> http://www.dieselduck.info/historical/01%20diesel%20engine/Doxford/works.htm
> and repairing the damage due to not doing the correct engine starting
> procedure resulting in slippage of the shrink fit crank
> http://www.waghornswood.net.nz/Manuals_01_18/Interesting/The_realignment_afloat_of_a_ships_main_engine_crankshaft.pdf
> . I mentioned that incident to a neighbour's friend who had worked for
> BOC and he said he had been involved in a similar fix in the docks at
> Bristol UK.
>

Fascinating articles! Thanks for posting!

bob prohaska

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Sat, 3 Jul 2021 21:23 UTC

Yes, thanks, very interesting.

For a more technical view, this explains submarine Diesels to new recruits
fresh off the farm.
https://archive.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/diesel/index.htm

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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From: BobEngel...@comcast.net (Bob Engelhardt)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
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 by: Bob Engelhardt - Mon, 5 Jul 2021 13:03 UTC

On 7/2/2021 6:04 PM, David Billington wrote:
....
> http://www.waghornswood.net.nz/Manuals_01_18/Interesting/The_realignment_afloat_of_a_ships_main_engine_crankshaft.pdf
....

Clever ... I wonder if this sort of repair had been used prior or if the
author was the first. If first, I have to admire his willingness to
jump in the deep end, so to speak.

I got a chuckle out his titles: "RJF Hudson PhD., BAppSc., DMS., CEng.,
Extra First Class M.O.T FIMarEST., FIMechE., MCMI."

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Mon, 5 Jul 2021 15:25 UTC

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message news:sbuvvn03d2@news1.newsguy.com...

On 7/2/2021 6:04 PM, David Billington wrote:
....
> http://www.waghornswood.net.nz/Manuals_01_18/Interesting/The_realignment_afloat_of_a_ships_main_engine_crankshaft.pdf
....

Clever ... I wonder if this sort of repair had been used prior or if the
author was the first. If first, I have to admire his willingness to
jump in the deep end, so to speak.

I got a chuckle out his titles: "RJF Hudson PhD., BAppSc., DMS., CEng.,
Extra First Class M.O.T FIMarEST., FIMechE., MCMI."

------
I suspect that every possible sort of failure had occurred soon after a
design was introduced. Prior to WW2 engineering was cut-and-try, strengthen
whatever broke.

https://www.enginehistory.org/members/articles/CrankDesignEvol.shtml
"Eventually, in the late 1930s, experimental stress analysis began to be
incorporated into the design process."

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
From: edhuntre...@gmail.com (Ed Huntress)
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 by: Ed Huntress - Tue, 10 Aug 2021 21:42 UTC

On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 10:31:56 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
> Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
> common in very small engines, some of which seem
> rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
> larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
> high-production types where tooling costs matter
> less than per-part costs.
>
> For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
> one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
> a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
> of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
> diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
>
> Thanks for reading,
>
> bob prohaska

Hi folks! I haven't stopped in for years, but I was so pleased to see that the political stuff (which drove me out in disgust) seems to be just a whimper now. If I was still writing about metalworking, I'd get back into it. But I'm not, so I'm just saying "hello" and it's nice to see so many of you still around.

Bob, I don't know of any unsupercharged diesel engines -- running on diesel fuel -- smaller than about 300 cc or so per cylinder. I'm not a diesel guy and there may be some such engines, but that's what I've heard from diesel people. They've told me that smaller cylinders quench too much to burn diesel fuel without supercharging. Of course, you can "diesel" with ether and maybe some other fuels, but that's something to check out. Those model "diesel" engines that run on ether don't have injection, so purists don't consider them to be "diesels." Just "compression ignition."

As for built-up cranks, there were racing engines in the 1930s, and probably since, that had built-up cranks. SO I'd guess that they can handle the torsional load if you get the press-fit right.

Good to see ya'll, and without the vile political stuff!

--
Ed Huntress

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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From: djb...@invalid.com (David Billington)
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Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 23:21:07 +0100
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 by: David Billington - Tue, 10 Aug 2021 22:21 UTC

On 10/08/2021 22:42, Ed Huntress wrote:
> On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 10:31:56 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
>> Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
>> common in very small engines, some of which seem
>> rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
>> larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
>> high-production types where tooling costs matter
>> less than per-part costs.
>>
>> For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
>> one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
>> a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
>> of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
>> diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
>>
>> Thanks for reading,
>>
>> bob prohaska
> Hi folks! I haven't stopped in for years, but I was so pleased to see that the political stuff (which drove me out in disgust) seems to be just a whimper now. If I was still writing about metalworking, I'd get back into it. But I'm not, so I'm just saying "hello" and it's nice to see so many of you still around.
>
> Bob, I don't know of any unsupercharged diesel engines -- running on diesel fuel -- smaller than about 300 cc or so per cylinder. I'm not a diesel guy and there may be some such engines, but that's what I've heard from diesel people. They've told me that smaller cylinders quench too much to burn diesel fuel without supercharging. Of course, you can "diesel" with ether and maybe some other fuels, but that's something to check out. Those model "diesel" engines that run on ether don't have injection, so purists don't consider them to be "diesels." Just "compression ignition."
>
> As for built-up cranks, there were racing engines in the 1930s, and probably since, that had built-up cranks. SO I'd guess that they can handle the torsional load if you get the press-fit right.
>
> Good to see ya'll, and without the vile political stuff!
>
> --
> Ed Huntress

Ed,

Good to see you're still with us and posting, it has been getting quiet
on here as even the metal working related stuff is getting less often. I
hadn't noticed a reduction in political/gun/survivalist stuff as my
filters kept that under control. I had a Davies-Charlton UK made diesel
airplane model engine and took it back to Wichita and asked my chemistry
teacher where I could get some ether to make the fuel and she was rather
concerned about safety and not helpful, IIRC the fuel was ether, amyl
nitrate, and castor oil and easy to get in the UK as a pre-mixed fuel
but not common in the US in the early 1980s. IIRC a source for ether is
engine start spray and people do use it to repair capillary temperature
gauges.

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
From: edhuntre...@gmail.com (Ed Huntress)
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 by: Ed Huntress - Tue, 10 Aug 2021 22:36 UTC

On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 6:21:11 PM UTC-4, David Billington wrote:
> On 10/08/2021 22:42, Ed Huntress wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 10:31:56 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
> >> Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
> >> common in very small engines, some of which seem
> >> rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
> >> larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
> >> high-production types where tooling costs matter
> >> less than per-part costs.
> >>
> >> For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
> >> one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
> >> a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
> >> of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
> >> diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
> >>
> >> Thanks for reading,
> >>
> >> bob prohaska
> > Hi folks! I haven't stopped in for years, but I was so pleased to see that the political stuff (which drove me out in disgust) seems to be just a whimper now. If I was still writing about metalworking, I'd get back into it. But I'm not, so I'm just saying "hello" and it's nice to see so many of you still around.
> >
> > Bob, I don't know of any unsupercharged diesel engines -- running on diesel fuel -- smaller than about 300 cc or so per cylinder. I'm not a diesel guy and there may be some such engines, but that's what I've heard from diesel people. They've told me that smaller cylinders quench too much to burn diesel fuel without supercharging. Of course, you can "diesel" with ether and maybe some other fuels, but that's something to check out. Those model "diesel" engines that run on ether don't have injection, so purists don't consider them to be "diesels." Just "compression ignition."
> >
> > As for built-up cranks, there were racing engines in the 1930s, and probably since, that had built-up cranks. SO I'd guess that they can handle the torsional load if you get the press-fit right.
> >
> > Good to see ya'll, and without the vile political stuff!
> >
> > --
> > Ed Huntress
> Ed,
>
> Good to see you're still with us and posting, it has been getting quiet
> on here as even the metal working related stuff is getting less often. I
> hadn't noticed a reduction in political/gun/survivalist stuff as my
> filters kept that under control. I had a Davies-Charlton UK made diesel
> airplane model engine and took it back to Wichita and asked my chemistry
> teacher where I could get some ether to make the fuel and she was rather
> concerned about safety and not helpful, IIRC the fuel was ether, amyl
> nitrate, and castor oil and easy to get in the UK as a pre-mixed fuel
> but not common in the US in the early 1980s. IIRC a source for ether is
> engine start spray and people do use it to repair capillary temperature
> gauges.

Hiya Dave! I haven't tried to buy ether for decades. I kept a pint can of it in the trunk of my MG when I lived in Michigan, for starting on those 0-temp winter days ( and with a sad Lucas battery), which I guess was like keeping a few sticks of dynamite in the car. Oh well, it worked. and I'm still in one piece.

I see it's relatively quiet here, but the subjects are metalworking-related, like it was when I joined over 20 years ago. It's good to see.

--
Ed Huntress

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
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Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 21:04:10 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Wed, 11 Aug 2021 01:04 UTC

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news:ffbab5f1-2afe-4225-8c45-53072f09c737n@googlegroups.com...

On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 10:31:56 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
> Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
> common in very small engines, some of which seem
> rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
> larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
> high-production types where tooling costs matter
> less than per-part costs.
>
> For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
> one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
> a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
> of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
> diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
>
> Thanks for reading,
>
> bob prohaska

Hi folks! I haven't stopped in for years, but I was so pleased to see that
the political stuff (which drove me out in disgust) seems to be just a
whimper now. If I was still writing about metalworking, I'd get back into
it. But I'm not, so I'm just saying "hello" and it's nice to see so many of
you still around.

Bob, I don't know of any unsupercharged diesel engines -- running on diesel
fuel -- smaller than about 300 cc or so per cylinder. I'm not a diesel guy
and there may be some such engines, but that's what I've heard from diesel
people. They've told me that smaller cylinders quench too much to burn
diesel fuel without supercharging. Of course, you can "diesel" with ether
and maybe some other fuels, but that's something to check out. Those model
"diesel" engines that run on ether don't have injection, so purists don't
consider them to be "diesels." Just "compression ignition."

As for built-up cranks, there were racing engines in the 1930s, and probably
since, that had built-up cranks. SO I'd guess that they can handle the
torsional load if you get the press-fit right.

Good to see ya'll, and without the vile political stuff!

--
Ed Huntress

----------------------------------

Amazon offers several brands of a 196CC Diesel:

https://www.amazon.com/Diesel-Cylinder-Cooling-Horizontal-3000RPM/dp/B0917PGV7W/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=small+diesel+engine&qid=1628643055&sr=8-3

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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From: speffS...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat (Spehro Pefhany)
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Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 21:46:03 -0400
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 by: Spehro Pefhany - Wed, 11 Aug 2021 01:46 UTC

On Tue, 10 Aug 2021 14:42:25 -0700 (PDT), Ed Huntress
<edhuntress2@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 10:31:56 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
>> Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
>> common in very small engines, some of which seem
>> rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
>> larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
>> high-production types where tooling costs matter
>> less than per-part costs.
>>
>> For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
>> one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
>> a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
>> of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
>> diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
>>
>> Thanks for reading,
>>
>> bob prohaska
>
>Hi folks! I haven't stopped in for years, but I was so pleased to see that the political stuff (which drove me out in disgust) seems to be just a whimper now. If I was still writing about metalworking, I'd get back into it. But I'm not, so I'm just saying "hello" and it's nice to see so many of you still around.
>
>Bob, I don't know of any unsupercharged diesel engines -- running on diesel fuel -- smaller than about 300 cc or so per cylinder. I'm not a diesel guy and there may be some such engines, but that's what I've heard from diesel people. They've told me that smaller cylinders quench too much to burn diesel fuel without supercharging. Of course, you can "diesel" with ether and maybe some other fuels, but that's something to check out. Those model "diesel" engines that run on ether don't have injection, so purists don't consider them to be "diesels." Just "compression ignition."
>
>As for built-up cranks, there were racing engines in the 1930s, and probably since, that had built-up cranks. SO I'd guess that they can handle the torsional load if you get the press-fit right.
>
>Good to see ya'll, and without the vile political stuff!

Likewise.
--
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
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 by: Gerry - Wed, 11 Aug 2021 03:25 UTC

On Tue, 10 Aug 2021 15:36:54 -0700 (PDT), Ed Huntress
<edhuntress2@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 6:21:11 PM UTC-4, David Billington wrote:
>> On 10/08/2021 22:42, Ed Huntress wrote:
>> > On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 10:31:56 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
>> >> Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
>> >> common in very small engines, some of which seem
>> >> rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
>> >> larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
>> >> high-production types where tooling costs matter
>> >> less than per-part costs.
>> >>
>> >> For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
>> >> one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
>> >> a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
>> >> of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
>> >> diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for reading,
>> >>
>> >> bob prohaska
>> > Hi folks! I haven't stopped in for years, but I was so pleased to see that the political stuff (which drove me out in disgust) seems to be just a whimper now. If I was still writing about metalworking, I'd get back into it. But I'm not, so I'm just saying "hello" and it's nice to see so many of you still around.
>> >
>> > Bob, I don't know of any unsupercharged diesel engines -- running on diesel fuel -- smaller than about 300 cc or so per cylinder. I'm not a diesel guy and there may be some such engines, but that's what I've heard from diesel people. They've told me that smaller cylinders quench too much to burn diesel fuel without supercharging. Of course, you can "diesel" with ether and maybe some other fuels, but that's something to check out. Those model "diesel" engines that run on ether don't have injection, so purists don't consider them to be "diesels." Just "compression ignition."
>> >
>> > As for built-up cranks, there were racing engines in the 1930s, and probably since, that had built-up cranks. SO I'd guess that they can handle the torsional load if you get the press-fit right.
>> >
>> > Good to see ya'll, and without the vile political stuff!
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ed Huntress
>> Ed,
>>
>> Good to see you're still with us and posting, it has been getting quiet
>> on here as even the metal working related stuff is getting less often. I
>> hadn't noticed a reduction in political/gun/survivalist stuff as my
>> filters kept that under control. I had a Davies-Charlton UK made diesel
>> airplane model engine and took it back to Wichita and asked my chemistry
>> teacher where I could get some ether to make the fuel and she was rather
>> concerned about safety and not helpful, IIRC the fuel was ether, amyl
>> nitrate, and castor oil and easy to get in the UK as a pre-mixed fuel
>> but not common in the US in the early 1980s. IIRC a source for ether is
>> engine start spray and people do use it to repair capillary temperature
>> gauges.
>
>Hiya Dave! I haven't tried to buy ether for decades. I kept a pint can of it in the trunk of my MG when I lived in Michigan, for starting on those 0-temp winter days ( and with a sad Lucas battery), which I guess was like keeping a few sticks of dynamite in the car. Oh well, it worked. and I'm still in one piece.
>
>I see it's relatively quiet here, but the subjects are metalworking-related, like it was when I joined over 20 years ago. It's good to see.
I managed to start my '50 Austin A40 by pouring a couple ounces of gas
down the carb below 20 deg, F. and use the crank below zero.
Lately I've resorted to ether instead of priming old B&S lawn mowers
with the prime passage molded into the carb.-air cleaner joint, that
plus a cordles drill adapter in place of the rewind starter kept the
"mechanical mutton" working.
This year, for my 82nd birthday, I got my first new lawn mower - self
propelled with electric starter. I had never paid over $15 for a mower
in my life, most of them dumpster diving finds.

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
From: edhuntre...@gmail.com (Ed Huntress)
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 by: Ed Huntress - Wed, 11 Aug 2021 05:46 UTC

On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 9:04:25 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Ed Huntress" wrote in message
> news:ffbab5f1-2afe-4225...@googlegroups.com...
> On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 10:31:56 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
> > Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
> > common in very small engines, some of which seem
> > rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
> > larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
> > high-production types where tooling costs matter
> > less than per-part costs.
> >
> > For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
> > one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
> > a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
> > of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
> > diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
> >
> > Thanks for reading,
> >
> > bob prohaska
>
> Hi folks! I haven't stopped in for years, but I was so pleased to see that
> the political stuff (which drove me out in disgust) seems to be just a
> whimper now. If I was still writing about metalworking, I'd get back into
> it. But I'm not, so I'm just saying "hello" and it's nice to see so many of
> you still around.
>
> Bob, I don't know of any unsupercharged diesel engines -- running on diesel
> fuel -- smaller than about 300 cc or so per cylinder. I'm not a diesel guy
> and there may be some such engines, but that's what I've heard from diesel
> people. They've told me that smaller cylinders quench too much to burn
> diesel fuel without supercharging. Of course, you can "diesel" with ether
> and maybe some other fuels, but that's something to check out. Those model
> "diesel" engines that run on ether don't have injection, so purists don't
> consider them to be "diesels." Just "compression ignition."
>
> As for built-up cranks, there were racing engines in the 1930s, and probably
> since, that had built-up cranks. SO I'd guess that they can handle the
> torsional load if you get the press-fit right.
>
> Good to see ya'll, and without the vile political stuff!
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
> ----------------------------------
>
> Amazon offers several brands of a 196CC Diesel:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Diesel-Cylinder-Cooling-Horizontal-3000RPM/dp/B0917PGV7W/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=small+diesel+engine&qid=1628643055&sr=8-3

Yes indeed. If you look closely, it looks like they're all the same motor, with different paint jobs.

--
Ed Huntress

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
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Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Wed, 11 Aug 2021 10:45 UTC

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news:3b15da1e-d6a3-4094-b7bd-ba7b6c200600n@googlegroups.com...

On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 9:04:25 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Ed Huntress" wrote in message
> news:ffbab5f1-2afe-4225...@googlegroups.com...
> On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 10:31:56 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
> > Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
> > common in very small engines, some of which seem
> > rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
> > larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
> > high-production types where tooling costs matter
> > less than per-part costs.
> >
> > For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
> > one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
> > a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
> > of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
> > diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
> >
> > Thanks for reading,
> >
> > bob prohaska
>
> Hi folks! I haven't stopped in for years, but I was so pleased to see that
> the political stuff (which drove me out in disgust) seems to be just a
> whimper now. If I was still writing about metalworking, I'd get back into
> it. But I'm not, so I'm just saying "hello" and it's nice to see so many
> of
> you still around.
>
> Bob, I don't know of any unsupercharged diesel engines -- running on
> diesel
> fuel -- smaller than about 300 cc or so per cylinder. I'm not a diesel guy
> and there may be some such engines, but that's what I've heard from diesel
> people. They've told me that smaller cylinders quench too much to burn
> diesel fuel without supercharging. Of course, you can "diesel" with ether
> and maybe some other fuels, but that's something to check out. Those model
> "diesel" engines that run on ether don't have injection, so purists don't
> consider them to be "diesels." Just "compression ignition."
>
> As for built-up cranks, there were racing engines in the 1930s, and
> probably
> since, that had built-up cranks. SO I'd guess that they can handle the
> torsional load if you get the press-fit right.
>
> Good to see ya'll, and without the vile political stuff!
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
> ----------------------------------
>
> Amazon offers several brands of a 196CC Diesel:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Diesel-Cylinder-Cooling-Horizontal-3000RPM/dp/B0917PGV7W/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=small+diesel+engine&qid=1628643055&sr=8-3

Yes indeed. If you look closely, it looks like they're all the same motor,
with different paint jobs.

--
Ed Huntress

------------------------------------

A disgusted Chinese design engineer told me their government encourages such
unlicensed copying.

They don't necessarily disprove the 300CC statement, perhaps being able to
use cheap available fuel is more important than lost efficiency at their low
power level. Quench may be less of a problem in a hotter-running air cooled
engine.

Re: Pressed-together crankshafts

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From: joegw...@comcast.net (Joe Gwinn)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Pressed-together crankshafts
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 08:59:45 -0400
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 by: Joe Gwinn - Wed, 11 Aug 2021 12:59 UTC

On Tue, 10 Aug 2021 15:36:54 -0700 (PDT), Ed Huntress
<edhuntress2@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 6:21:11 PM UTC-4, David Billington wrote:
>> On 10/08/2021 22:42, Ed Huntress wrote:
>> > On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 10:31:56 PM UTC-4, bob prohaska wrote:
>> >> Just how strong are built-up crankshafts? They're
>> >> common in very small engines, some of which seem
>> >> rather highly stressed. They seem less common in
>> >> larger engines, but those I'm familiar with are
>> >> high-production types where tooling costs matter
>> >> less than per-part costs.
>> >>
>> >> For example, if somebody wanted to build a small,
>> >> one-off diesel engine, say a 200cc v-twin, would
>> >> a built-up crank have a chance? At the other end
>> >> of the spectrum, are the cranks in very large marine
>> >> diesels (think Emma Maersk) built up or monolithic?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for reading,
>> >>
>> >> bob prohaska
>> > Hi folks! I haven't stopped in for years, but I was so pleased to see that the political stuff (which drove me out in disgust) seems to be just a whimper now. If I was still writing about metalworking, I'd get back into it. But I'm not, so I'm just saying "hello" and it's nice to see so many of you still around.
>> >
>> > Bob, I don't know of any unsupercharged diesel engines -- running on diesel fuel -- smaller than about 300 cc or so per cylinder. I'm not a diesel guy and there may be some such engines, but that's what I've heard from diesel people. They've told me that smaller cylinders quench too much to burn diesel fuel without supercharging. Of course, you can "diesel" with ether and maybe some other fuels, but that's something to check out. Those model "diesel" engines that run on ether don't have injection, so purists don't consider them to be "diesels." Just "compression ignition."
>> >
>> > As for built-up cranks, there were racing engines in the 1930s, and probably since, that had built-up cranks. SO I'd guess that they can handle the torsional load if you get the press-fit right.
>> >
>> > Good to see ya'll, and without the vile political stuff!
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ed Huntress
>> Ed,
>>
>> Good to see you're still with us and posting, it has been getting quiet
>> on here as even the metal working related stuff is getting less often. I
>> hadn't noticed a reduction in political/gun/survivalist stuff as my
>> filters kept that under control. I had a Davies-Charlton UK made diesel
>> airplane model engine and took it back to Wichita and asked my chemistry
>> teacher where I could get some ether to make the fuel and she was rather
>> concerned about safety and not helpful, IIRC the fuel was ether, amyl
>> nitrate, and castor oil and easy to get in the UK as a pre-mixed fuel
>> but not common in the US in the early 1980s. IIRC a source for ether is
>> engine start spray and people do use it to repair capillary temperature
>> gauges.
>
>Hiya Dave! I haven't tried to buy ether for decades. I kept a pint can of it in the trunk of my MG when I lived in Michigan, for starting on those 0-temp winter days ( and with a sad Lucas battery), which I guess was like keeping a few sticks of dynamite in the car. Oh well, it worked. and I'm still in one piece.

One can still buy ether in the US, packaged as "starting fluid" in
auto parts stores.

>I see it's relatively quiet here, but the subjects are metalworking-related, like it was when I joined over 20 years ago. It's good to see.

Seems to come in sporadic waves these days. Gunner has not posted in
a long time.

Joe Gwinn

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