Could some of you mechanical engineer types explain to me what was different about the bearings in the Evans and Dodge bicycle, compared to other bicycles of the time? I'm not understanding it. Thanks a lot.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I7V1APyzOgnbrwucQkvnN5Xg4KlLfiAJ/view?usp=sharing

On Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:39:13 -0800 (PST), William Crowell
<retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:

>Could some of you mechanical engineer types explain to me what was different about the bearings in the Evans and Dodge bicycle, compared to other bicycles of the time? I'm not understanding it. Thanks a lot.
>
>https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I7V1APyzOgnbrwucQkvnN5Xg4KlLfiAJ/view?usp=sharing

Perhaps in 1896 it was New and Innovative (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:39:13 -0800 (PST), William Crowell
<retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:

>Could some of you mechanical engineer types explain to me what was different about the bearings in the Evans and Dodge bicycle, compared to other bicycles of the time? I'm not understanding it. Thanks a lot.
>
>https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I7V1APyzOgnbrwucQkvnN5Xg4KlLfiAJ/view?usp=sharing

The advertisement says "...the axis of both balls and axle are
parallel, causing the ball to travel with less friction than is
possible where axis of ball and axle are on different angles".

1895 patent No. 567,851
<https://www.google.com/books/edition/Official_Gazette_of_the_United_States_Pa/p881AQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=patent+567,851+bearing&pg=PA75&printsec=frontcover>
Not much detail on benefits of the bearing and the English is
confusing but you might be able find something useful. Near as I can
tell, it's a bicycle axle using two cups in each bearing or four cups
per axle.

Good luck.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Apparently the Evans and Dodge Bicycle (or "E & D", as it was called) was quite successful. In 1890 or '91 the Dodges (John & Horace of motorcar fame) took jobs as machinists in Windsor, Ontario with the Canadian Typothetae Co. They were still working there in 1897, when Horace Dodge patented his adjustable ball bearing bicycle hub. The Dodge Bros. then got financing from Detroit manufacturer Fred Evans, leased the Canadian Typothetae shops, and began making the E & D bicycle. They remained in the bicycle business for four years. During that time they entered into a sale to the National Cycle and Automobile Co., in which they continued in key positions. Then the Canadian Cycle & Motor Co. bought the business. By that time John and Horace Dodge had each saved $7,500, (maybe $200,000 in today's dollars), which they used to establish their own machine shop on Beaubien St. in Detroit. (cf. Automobile Quarterly magazine, first quarter 1979; I've taken liberties with it.)

On 11/25/2021 3:39 PM, William Crowell wrote:
> Could some of you mechanical engineer types explain to me what was different about the bearings in the Evans and Dodge bicycle, compared to other bicycles of the time? I'm not understanding it. Thanks a lot.
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I7V1APyzOgnbrwucQkvnN5Xg4KlLfiAJ/view?usp=sharing
>

It's a four-point contact like the Stronglight V4 headset,
another legendary design noted for exceptionally long wear.

Dissimilar curves (the open-bearing components you know) are
more fault-tolerant. V-races have to be very well machined
and aligned.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:
> Apparently the Evans and Dodge Bicycle (or "E & D", as it was called) was
> quite successful. In 1890 or '91 the Dodges (John & Horace of motorcar
> fame) took jobs as machinists in Windsor, Ontario with the Canadian
> Typothetae Co. They were still working there in 1897, when Horace Dodge
> patented his adjustable ball bearing bicycle hub. The Dodge Bros. then
> got financing from Detroit manufacturer Fred Evans, leased the Canadian
> Typothetae shops, and began making the E & D bicycle. They remained in
> the bicycle business for four years. During that time they entered into
> a sale to the National Cycle and Automobile Co., in which they continued
> in key positions. Then the Canadian Cycle & Motor Co. bought the
> business. By that time John and Horace Dodge had each saved $7,500,
> (maybe $200,000 in today's dollars), which they used to establish their
> own machine shop on Beaubien St. in Detroit. (cf. Automobile Quarterly
> magazine, first quarter 1979; I've taken liberties with it.)
>

The Canadian Cycle & Motor Co must be the CCM bikes that I remember from my
youth. They went bankrupt in 1983, but like many other defunct brands, the
name is still in use. You can still buy a CCM branded bike at Canadian
Tire.

On 11/26/2021 9:14 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Apparently the Evans and Dodge Bicycle (or "E & D", as it was called) was
>> quite successful. In 1890 or '91 the Dodges (John & Horace of motorcar
>> fame) took jobs as machinists in Windsor, Ontario with the Canadian
>> Typothetae Co. They were still working there in 1897, when Horace Dodge
>> patented his adjustable ball bearing bicycle hub. The Dodge Bros. then
>> got financing from Detroit manufacturer Fred Evans, leased the Canadian
>> Typothetae shops, and began making the E & D bicycle. They remained in
>> the bicycle business for four years. During that time they entered into
>> a sale to the National Cycle and Automobile Co., in which they continued
>> in key positions. Then the Canadian Cycle & Motor Co. bought the
>> business. By that time John and Horace Dodge had each saved $7,500,
>> (maybe $200,000 in today's dollars), which they used to establish their
>> own machine shop on Beaubien St. in Detroit. (cf. Automobile Quarterly
>> magazine, first quarter 1979; I've taken liberties with it.)
>>
>
>
> The Canadian Cycle & Motor Co must be the CCM bikes that I remember from my
> youth. They went bankrupt in 1983, but like many other defunct brands, the
> name is still in use. You can still buy a CCM branded bike at Canadian
> Tire.
>

Yes, many 'zombie brands' live on unrelated to the famous
name; Schwinn, Huffy, uncountable other examples.

I note with sadness that the venerable Morris Garages 'MG'
brand of autos went out of trademark; current MG autos are a
low rent chinese s**tbox.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 7:00:04 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/25/2021 3:39 PM, William Crowell wrote:
> > Could some of you mechanical engineer types explain to me what was different about the bearings in the Evans and Dodge bicycle, compared to other bicycles of the time? I'm not understanding it. Thanks a lot.
> >
> > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I7V1APyzOgnbrwucQkvnN5Xg4KlLfiAJ/view?usp=sharing
> >
> It's a four-point contact like the Stronglight V4 headset,
> another legendary design noted for exceptionally long wear.
>
> Dissimilar curves (the open-bearing components you know) are
> more fault-tolerant. V-races have to be very well machined
> and aligned.

Also weirdly significant is that these were press fit bearings which is easy to accomplish successfully in a metal tube bottom bracket. Though it must have taken some fiddling to get the offside preload set - it must have been an adjust and try.

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 11:08:41 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/26/2021 9:14 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Apparently the Evans and Dodge Bicycle (or "E & D", as it was called) was
>>> quite successful. In 1890 or '91 the Dodges (John & Horace of motorcar
>>> fame) took jobs as machinists in Windsor, Ontario with the Canadian
>>> Typothetae Co. They were still working there in 1897, when Horace Dodge
>>> patented his adjustable ball bearing bicycle hub. The Dodge Bros. then
>>> got financing from Detroit manufacturer Fred Evans, leased the Canadian
>>> Typothetae shops, and began making the E & D bicycle. They remained in
>>> the bicycle business for four years. During that time they entered into
>>> a sale to the National Cycle and Automobile Co., in which they continued
>>> in key positions. Then the Canadian Cycle & Motor Co. bought the
>>> business. By that time John and Horace Dodge had each saved $7,500,
>>> (maybe $200,000 in today's dollars), which they used to establish their
>>> own machine shop on Beaubien St. in Detroit. (cf. Automobile Quarterly
>>> magazine, first quarter 1979; I've taken liberties with it.)
>>>
>>
>>
>> The Canadian Cycle & Motor Co must be the CCM bikes that I remember from my
>> youth. They went bankrupt in 1983, but like many other defunct brands, the
>> name is still in use. You can still buy a CCM branded bike at Canadian
>> Tire.
>>
>
>Yes, many 'zombie brands' live on unrelated to the famous
>name; Schwinn, Huffy, uncountable other examples.
>
>I note with sadness that the venerable Morris Garages 'MG'
>brand of autos went out of trademark; current MG autos are a
>low rent chinese s**tbox.

The other day the local MG dealer had a show at one of the larger
"department" stores here and I was appalled to see that they even make
pickup trucks these days (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

Upon further reading, it appears that the E & D bike's claim to fame was that its bearings were both dustproof and adjustable. I surmise that competing bicycles' bearings were either dustproof but non-adjustable or adjustable but not dustproof.

Andrew wrote: "V-races have to be very well machined and aligned."

I'm surprised the bearings in that E & D bike worked as well as they did, because it took the Dodge Bros. awhile to learn the importance of accurate machining, and by that point in their careers they don't seem to have learned it yet. They came from a background of steam-powered marine engines, where machining tolerances were greater than in automotive work. Horace Dodge first learned about accurate machining after the E & D days, when he worked for Henry Leland (daddy to the Cadillac and Lincoln) while John Dodge was recovering from tuberculosis and couldn't work (except for that period, the Bros. always worked together). But the lesson apparently didn't sink in well enough at first, because when Ransom Olds ordered engines for his curved-dash car from both Leland and the Dodges, the Leland engines made more power because they were built to closer tolerances. By the time the Bros. started making engines, transmissions and differentials for Ford, however, they were making pretty accurate stuff, and their own Dodge Bros. car was legendary for its durability. Then during WWI, at the request of the government, the Bros. set up a special factory for the production of recoil mechanisms which had to be very accurately machined, and which Ford and GM had declined to manufacture. The recoil mechanisms that the Bros. produced were entirely satisfactory to the government.

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 5:32:38 AM UTC-8, William Crowell wrote:
> Andrew wrote: "V-races have to be very well machined and aligned."
>
> I'm surprised the bearings in that E & D bike worked as well as they did, because it took the Dodge Bros. awhile to learn the importance of accurate machining, and by that point in their careers they don't seem to have learned it yet. They came from a background of steam-powered marine engines, where machining tolerances were greater than in automotive work. Horace Dodge first learned about accurate machining after the E & D days, when he worked for Henry Leland (daddy to the Cadillac and Lincoln) while John Dodge was recovering from tuberculosis and couldn't work (except for that period, the Bros. always worked together). But the lesson apparently didn't sink in well enough at first, because when Ransom Olds ordered engines for his curved-dash car from both Leland and the Dodges, the Leland engines made more power because they were built to closer tolerances. By the time the Bros. started making engines, transmissions and differentials for Ford, however, they were making pretty accurate stuff, and their own Dodge Bros. car was legendary for its durability. Then during WWI, at the request of the government, the Bros. set up a special factory for the production of recoil mechanisms which had to be very accurately machined, and which Ford and GM had declined to manufacture. The recoil mechanisms that the Bros. produced were entirely satisfactory to the government.
One of the reasons that chain and sprocket mechanisms are so efficient is that they self correct for poor machining.