Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who ran red light

<https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>

On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who ran red light
>
> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>

Why don't you think that the far left radical media didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief? As we as probably other robberies?

On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who ran red light
>>
>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
>
>Why don't you think that the far left radical media didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief? As we as probably other robberies?

No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug paraphernalia
were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding felony and
misdemeanor warrants"
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who ran red light
>>>
>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
>>
>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief? As we as probably other robberies?
>
> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug paraphernalia
> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding felony and
> misdemeanor warrants"
>

There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:

https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who ran red light
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
>>>
>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief? As we as probably other robberies?
>>
>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug paraphernalia
>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding felony and
>> misdemeanor warrants"
>>
>
>There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
>
>https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html

Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law enforcement. I'd
estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the crime
reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant caught in the
act.

The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras and now if you
violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated notice in the
mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are pretty hard to
deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing the number
plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.

My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal left turn
and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/5/2021 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
>>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who ran red light
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
>>>>
>>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief? As we as probably other robberies?
>>>
>>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug paraphernalia
>>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding felony and
>>> misdemeanor warrants"
>>>
>>
>> There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
>>
>> https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html
>
> Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law enforcement. I'd
> estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the crime
> reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant caught in the
> act.
>
> The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras and now if you
> violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated notice in the
> mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are pretty hard to
> deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing the number
> plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.
>
> My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal left turn
> and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)

Yet around here, speed cameras and red light cameras generate outrage
from one political party - the one that used to be all about "law and
order."

Speeding on the city central freeway was extreme. Crashes were frequent.
The cops started using speed cameras and collecting fines. Speeding
dropped tremendously, crashes dropped tremendously. All good, right?

Not quite. Republicans in the statehouse passed a law saying state funds
to any city would be decreased by the amount the city received in speed
camera fines.

Camera opponents claimed the purpose of the cameras was just to make
money. But it costs money to run a government. And I have no problem
with collecting some of that money from people who are violating laws
and endangering others.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 7:46:22 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/5/2021 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> >>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who ran red light
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
> >>>>
> >>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief? As we as probably other robberies?
> >>>
> >>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug paraphernalia
> >>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding felony and
> >>> misdemeanor warrants"
> >>>
> >>
> >> There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
> >>
> >> https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html
> >
> > Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law enforcement. I'd
> > estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the crime
> > reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant caught in the
> > act.
> >
> > The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras and now if you
> > violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated notice in the
> > mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are pretty hard to
> > deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing the number
> > plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.
> >
> > My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal left turn
> > and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)
> Yet around here, speed cameras and red light cameras generate outrage
> from one political party - the one that used to be all about "law and
> order."
>
> Speeding on the city central freeway was extreme. Crashes were frequent.
> The cops started using speed cameras and collecting fines. Speeding
> dropped tremendously, crashes dropped tremendously. All good, right?
>
> Not quite. Republicans in the statehouse passed a law saying state funds
> to any city would be decreased by the amount the city received in speed
> camera fines.
>
> Camera opponents claimed the purpose of the cameras was just to make
> money. But it costs money to run a government. And I have no problem
> with collecting some of that money from people who are violating laws
> and endangering others.

Who would have thought that giving cities a reason to RELY upon fines from traffic safety would have such a hated effect from people like you/

On 12/6/2021 9:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/5/2021 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi
>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who
>>>>>> ran red light
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media
>>>>> didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief?
>>>>> As we as probably other robberies?
>>>>
>>>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug
>>>> paraphernalia
>>>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding
>>>> felony and
>>>> misdemeanor warrants"
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
>>>
>>> https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html
>>>
>>
>> Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law
>> enforcement. I'd
>> estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the
>> crime
>> reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant
>> caught in the
>> act.
>>
>> The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras
>> and now if you
>> violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated
>> notice in the
>> mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are
>> pretty hard to
>> deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing
>> the number
>> plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.
>>
>> My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal
>> left turn
>> and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)
>
> Yet around here, speed cameras and red light cameras
> generate outrage from one political party - the one that
> used to be all about "law and order."
>
> Speeding on the city central freeway was extreme. Crashes
> were frequent. The cops started using speed cameras and
> collecting fines. Speeding dropped tremendously, crashes
> dropped tremendously. All good, right?
>
> Not quite. Republicans in the statehouse passed a law saying
> state funds to any city would be decreased by the amount the
> city received in speed camera fines.
>
> Camera opponents claimed the purpose of the cameras was just
> to make money. But it costs money to run a government. And I
> have no problem with collecting some of that money from
> people who are violating laws and endangering others.
>

Both arguments can be true. And often are:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bn-xpm-2010-03-22-28507976-story.html

Or, tip of the hat to James Madison:

https://foundersquotes.com/founding-fathers-quote/if-men-were-angels-no-government-would-be-necessary/

In our real world, chiselers and worse gravitate to
government contracts and the populace notices that the
'violations' are not always fairly charged.

Aside from obscure finagling (such as yellow light timing),
it's sometimes openly pernicious policy:

https://www.cookcountysouth.com/set-too-low-speed-cameras-snag-hundreds-of-thousands-of-chicagoans-in-a-matter-of-weeks/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 8:22:45 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/6/2021 9:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 12/5/2021 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi
> >> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who
> >>>>>> ran red light
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media
> >>>>> didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief?
> >>>>> As we as probably other robberies?
> >>>>
> >>>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug
> >>>> paraphernalia
> >>>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding
> >>>> felony and
> >>>> misdemeanor warrants"
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
> >>>
> >>> https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law
> >> enforcement. I'd
> >> estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the
> >> crime
> >> reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant
> >> caught in the
> >> act.
> >>
> >> The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras
> >> and now if you
> >> violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated
> >> notice in the
> >> mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are
> >> pretty hard to
> >> deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing
> >> the number
> >> plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.
> >>
> >> My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal
> >> left turn
> >> and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)
> >
> > Yet around here, speed cameras and red light cameras
> > generate outrage from one political party - the one that
> > used to be all about "law and order."
> >
> > Speeding on the city central freeway was extreme. Crashes
> > were frequent. The cops started using speed cameras and
> > collecting fines. Speeding dropped tremendously, crashes
> > dropped tremendously. All good, right?
> >
> > Not quite. Republicans in the statehouse passed a law saying
> > state funds to any city would be decreased by the amount the
> > city received in speed camera fines.
> >
> > Camera opponents claimed the purpose of the cameras was just
> > to make money. But it costs money to run a government. And I
> > have no problem with collecting some of that money from
> > people who are violating laws and endangering others.
> >
> Both arguments can be true. And often are:
>
> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bn-xpm-2010-03-22-28507976-story.html
>
> Or, tip of the hat to James Madison:
>
> https://foundersquotes.com/founding-fathers-quote/if-men-were-angels-no-government-would-be-necessary/
>
> In our real world, chiselers and worse gravitate to
> government contracts and the populace notices that the
> 'violations' are not always fairly charged.
>
> Aside from obscure finagling (such as yellow light timing),
> it's sometimes openly pernicious policy:
>
> https://www.cookcountysouth.com/set-too-low-speed-cameras-snag-hundreds-of-thousands-of-chicagoans-in-a-matter-of-weeks/
Funny how people are worried about 1 out of 10,000 getting sick and recovering but couldn't care less about the constant threat of death by motor vehicle. Covid was gone a couple of days after it was announced but traffic deaths go on and on and on.

On 12/6/2021 11:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/6/2021 9:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 12/5/2021 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi
>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who
>>>>>>> ran red light
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media
>>>>>> didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief?
>>>>>> As we as probably other robberies?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug
>>>>> paraphernalia
>>>>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding
>>>>> felony and
>>>>> misdemeanor warrants"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
>>>>
>>>> https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law
>>> enforcement. I'd
>>> estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the
>>> crime
>>> reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant
>>> caught in the
>>> act.
>>>
>>> The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras
>>> and now if you
>>> violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated
>>> notice in the
>>> mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are
>>> pretty hard to
>>> deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing
>>> the number
>>> plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.
>>>
>>> My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal
>>> left turn
>>> and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)
>>
>> Yet around here, speed cameras and red light cameras
>> generate outrage from one political party - the one that
>> used to be all about "law and order."
>>
>> Speeding on the city central freeway was extreme. Crashes
>> were frequent. The cops started using speed cameras and
>> collecting fines. Speeding dropped tremendously, crashes
>> dropped tremendously. All good, right?
>>
>> Not quite. Republicans in the statehouse passed a law saying
>> state funds to any city would be decreased by the amount the
>> city received in speed camera fines.
>>
>> Camera opponents claimed the purpose of the cameras was just
>> to make money. But it costs money to run a government. And I
>> have no problem with collecting some of that money from
>> people who are violating laws and endangering others.
>>
>
> Both arguments can be true. And often are:
>
> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bn-xpm-2010-03-22-28507976-story.html
>
>
> Or, tip of the hat to James Madison:
>
> https://foundersquotes.com/founding-fathers-quote/if-men-were-angels-no-government-would-be-necessary/
>
>
> In our real world, chiselers and worse gravitate to government contracts
> and the populace notices that the 'violations' are not always fairly
> charged.
>
> Aside from obscure finagling (such as yellow light timing), it's
> sometimes openly pernicious policy:
>
> https://www.cookcountysouth.com/set-too-low-speed-cameras-snag-hundreds-of-thousands-of-chicagoans-in-a-matter-of-weeks/

I'm against purposely shortening yellow light phases to harvest more
tickets. ISTM that should be handled by statute, as opposed to writing
laws designed to entirely discourage the use of cameras.

As to people ticketed for driving six or seven mph over the limit: Are
we really supposed to be sympathetic? What part of (say) "55 MPH", or
even "20 MPH" in a school zone, is hard to understand?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/6/2021 12:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/6/2021 11:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/6/2021 9:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 12/5/2021 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi
>>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who
>>>>>>>> ran red light
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media
>>>>>>> didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief?
>>>>>>> As we as probably other robberies?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug
>>>>>> paraphernalia
>>>>>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding
>>>>>> felony and
>>>>>> misdemeanor warrants"
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law
>>>> enforcement. I'd
>>>> estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the
>>>> crime
>>>> reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant
>>>> caught in the
>>>> act.
>>>>
>>>> The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras
>>>> and now if you
>>>> violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated
>>>> notice in the
>>>> mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are
>>>> pretty hard to
>>>> deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing
>>>> the number
>>>> plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.
>>>>
>>>> My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal
>>>> left turn
>>>> and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)
>>>
>>> Yet around here, speed cameras and red light cameras
>>> generate outrage from one political party - the one that
>>> used to be all about "law and order."
>>>
>>> Speeding on the city central freeway was extreme. Crashes
>>> were frequent. The cops started using speed cameras and
>>> collecting fines. Speeding dropped tremendously, crashes
>>> dropped tremendously. All good, right?
>>>
>>> Not quite. Republicans in the statehouse passed a law saying
>>> state funds to any city would be decreased by the amount the
>>> city received in speed camera fines.
>>>
>>> Camera opponents claimed the purpose of the cameras was just
>>> to make money. But it costs money to run a government. And I
>>> have no problem with collecting some of that money from
>>> people who are violating laws and endangering others.
>>>
>>
>> Both arguments can be true. And often are:
>>
>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bn-xpm-2010-03-22-28507976-story.html
>>
>>
>> Or, tip of the hat to James Madison:
>>
>> https://foundersquotes.com/founding-fathers-quote/if-men-were-angels-no-government-would-be-necessary/
>>
>>
>> In our real world, chiselers and worse gravitate to
>> government contracts and the populace notices that the
>> 'violations' are not always fairly charged.
>>
>> Aside from obscure finagling (such as yellow light
>> timing), it's sometimes openly pernicious policy:
>>
>> https://www.cookcountysouth.com/set-too-low-speed-cameras-snag-hundreds-of-thousands-of-chicagoans-in-a-matter-of-weeks/
>
>
> I'm against purposely shortening yellow light phases to
> harvest more tickets. ISTM that should be handled by
> statute, as opposed to writing laws designed to entirely
> discourage the use of cameras.
>
> As to people ticketed for driving six or seven mph over the
> limit: Are we really supposed to be sympathetic? What part
> of (say) "55 MPH", or even "20 MPH" in a school zone, is
> hard to understand?
>

There was, and is an IL statute.

The 'experts' from the vendor and the 'experts' from the
various taxing authorities had no incentive at all to
comply, to the point of false reports. Anyone surprised at that?

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/6/2021 1:58 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/6/2021 12:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>
>> I'm against purposely shortening yellow light phases to
>> harvest more tickets. ISTM that should be handled by
>> statute, as opposed to writing laws designed to entirely
>> discourage the use of cameras.
>>
>> As to people ticketed for driving six or seven mph over the
>> limit: Are we really supposed to be sympathetic? What part
>> of (say) "55 MPH", or even "20 MPH" in a school zone, is
>> hard to understand?
>>
>
> There was, and is an IL  statute.
>
> The 'experts' from the vendor and the 'experts' from the various taxing
> authorities had no incentive at all to comply, to the point of false
> reports. Anyone surprised at that?

I don't follow. The article you cited above confirmed that Chicago
officials did NOT shorten yellow light phases. It listed some
accusations from poor, inconvenienced motorists (who actually had to
stop for red lights!) but no proof of nefarious behavior by officials.

I've seen plenty of drivers drive at speed through lights that were
definitely red. Why should they not be fined? Are we supposed to keep
lengthening yellow phases until they're as long as green phases?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/6/2021 1:31 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/6/2021 1:58 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/6/2021 12:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm against purposely shortening yellow light phases to
>>> harvest more tickets. ISTM that should be handled by
>>> statute, as opposed to writing laws designed to entirely
>>> discourage the use of cameras.
>>>
>>> As to people ticketed for driving six or seven mph over the
>>> limit: Are we really supposed to be sympathetic? What part
>>> of (say) "55 MPH", or even "20 MPH" in a school zone, is
>>> hard to understand?
>>>
>>
>> There was, and is an ILÂ statute.
>>
>> The 'experts' from the vendor and the 'experts' from the
>> various taxing authorities had no incentive at all to
>> comply, to the point of false reports. Anyone surprised at
>> that?
>
> I don't follow. The article you cited above confirmed that
> Chicago officials did NOT shorten yellow light phases. It
> listed some accusations from poor, inconvenienced motorists
> (who actually had to stop for red lights!) but no proof of
> nefarious behavior by officials.
>
> I've seen plenty of drivers drive at speed through lights
> that were definitely red. Why should they not be fined? Are
> we supposed to keep lengthening yellow phases until they're
> as long as green phases?
>

Perhaps I was not clear.
Driver is ticketed. Yellow seems to be extremely short. City
officials claim it wasn't. This was a very hot issue during
Mr Emanuel's (Mayor Shortfinger) administration.

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/02/21/critics-chicago-red-light-cameras-cheat-on-yellow-lights/

“By and large, you can talk to anybody on the street and
there’s a lot of skepticism about the system,” 45th Ward
Ald. John Arena says.

https://chicagoist.com/2014/12/23/study_shows_red_light_cameras_short.php

"Chicago, by contrast, is sticking to federal and state
minimums. (CDOT is doing this despite an administrative
judge’s revelation over the summer he regularly tosses
between 60-70 percent of disputed red light tickets because
evidence is present the yellow light times are shorter than
three seconds.)"

Claiming the minimum 3 seconds while setting lights shorter?
Why would anyone do that?

"the red-light operation has raked in $375 million in fines."

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 10:46:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 12/5/2021 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
>>>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who ran red light
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief? As we as probably other robberies?
>>>>
>>>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug paraphernalia
>>>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding felony and
>>>> misdemeanor warrants"
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
>>>
>>> https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html
>>
>> Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law enforcement. I'd
>> estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the crime
>> reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant caught in the
>> act.
>>
>> The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras and now if you
>> violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated notice in the
>> mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are pretty hard to
>> deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing the number
>> plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.
>>
>> My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal left turn
>> and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)
>
>Yet around here, speed cameras and red light cameras generate outrage
>from one political party - the one that used to be all about "law and
>order."
>
>Speeding on the city central freeway was extreme. Crashes were frequent.
>The cops started using speed cameras and collecting fines. Speeding
>dropped tremendously, crashes dropped tremendously. All good, right?
>
>Not quite. Republicans in the statehouse passed a law saying state funds
>to any city would be decreased by the amount the city received in speed
>camera fines.
>
>Camera opponents claimed the purpose of the cameras was just to make
>money. But it costs money to run a government. And I have no problem
>with collecting some of that money from people who are violating laws
>and endangering others.

I suppose that the theory is "well you need X dollars, what difference
does it make where you get it?"

But more seriously, how much money was collected from fines for
speeding?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 06 Dec 2021 10:22:40 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/6/2021 9:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 12/5/2021 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi
>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who
>>>>>>> ran red light
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media
>>>>>> didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief?
>>>>>> As we as probably other robberies?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug
>>>>> paraphernalia
>>>>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding
>>>>> felony and
>>>>> misdemeanor warrants"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
>>>>
>>>> https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law
>>> enforcement. I'd
>>> estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the
>>> crime
>>> reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant
>>> caught in the
>>> act.
>>>
>>> The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras
>>> and now if you
>>> violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated
>>> notice in the
>>> mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are
>>> pretty hard to
>>> deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing
>>> the number
>>> plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.
>>>
>>> My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal
>>> left turn
>>> and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)
>>
>> Yet around here, speed cameras and red light cameras
>> generate outrage from one political party - the one that
>> used to be all about "law and order."
>>
>> Speeding on the city central freeway was extreme. Crashes
>> were frequent. The cops started using speed cameras and
>> collecting fines. Speeding dropped tremendously, crashes
>> dropped tremendously. All good, right?
>>
>> Not quite. Republicans in the statehouse passed a law saying
>> state funds to any city would be decreased by the amount the
>> city received in speed camera fines.
>>
>> Camera opponents claimed the purpose of the cameras was just
>> to make money. But it costs money to run a government. And I
>> have no problem with collecting some of that money from
>> people who are violating laws and endangering others.
>>
>
>Both arguments can be true. And often are:
>
>https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bn-xpm-2010-03-22-28507976-story.html
>
>Or, tip of the hat to James Madison:
>
>https://foundersquotes.com/founding-fathers-quote/if-men-were-angels-no-government-would-be-necessary/
>
>In our real world, chiselers and worse gravitate to
>government contracts and the populace notices that the
>'violations' are not always fairly charged.
>
>Aside from obscure finagling (such as yellow light timing),
>it's sometimes openly pernicious policy:
>
>https://www.cookcountysouth.com/set-too-low-speed-cameras-snag-hundreds-of-thousands-of-chicagoans-in-a-matter-of-weeks/

So it's O.K.to break the law a little bit?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/6/2021 4:30 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 10:46:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 12/5/2021 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
>>>>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who ran red light
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief? As we as probably other robberies?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug paraphernalia
>>>>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding felony and
>>>>> misdemeanor warrants"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
>>>>
>>>> https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html
>>>
>>> Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law enforcement. I'd
>>> estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the crime
>>> reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant caught in the
>>> act.
>>>
>>> The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras and now if you
>>> violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated notice in the
>>> mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are pretty hard to
>>> deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing the number
>>> plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.
>>>
>>> My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal left turn
>>> and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)
>>
>> Yet around here, speed cameras and red light cameras generate outrage
>>from one political party - the one that used to be all about "law and
>> order."
>>
>> Speeding on the city central freeway was extreme. Crashes were frequent.
>> The cops started using speed cameras and collecting fines. Speeding
>> dropped tremendously, crashes dropped tremendously. All good, right?
>>
>> Not quite. Republicans in the statehouse passed a law saying state funds
>> to any city would be decreased by the amount the city received in speed
>> camera fines.
>>
>> Camera opponents claimed the purpose of the cameras was just to make
>> money. But it costs money to run a government. And I have no problem
>> with collecting some of that money from people who are violating laws
>> and endangering others.
>
> I suppose that the theory is "well you need X dollars, what difference
> does it make where you get it?"
>
> But more seriously, how much money was collected from fines for
> speeding?
>

City of Chicago roughly $1,100,000 per month

Who pays?
https://www.mallonmars.com/blog/article/chicago-speed-cameras-largely-impact-black-and-brown-drivers-according-to-advocacy-group/

The speed cameras are newish, the real money is in red light
cams:
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/reports/illinois-red-light-cameras-have-collected-more-than-1b-from-drivers-since-2008/

or something well over $8 million per month through 2018.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/6/2021 4:36 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Dec 2021 10:22:40 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 12/6/2021 9:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 12/5/2021 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi
>>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who
>>>>>>>> ran red light
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media
>>>>>>> didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief?
>>>>>>> As we as probably other robberies?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug
>>>>>> paraphernalia
>>>>>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding
>>>>>> felony and
>>>>>> misdemeanor warrants"
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law
>>>> enforcement. I'd
>>>> estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the
>>>> crime
>>>> reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant
>>>> caught in the
>>>> act.
>>>>
>>>> The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras
>>>> and now if you
>>>> violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated
>>>> notice in the
>>>> mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are
>>>> pretty hard to
>>>> deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing
>>>> the number
>>>> plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.
>>>>
>>>> My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal
>>>> left turn
>>>> and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)
>>>
>>> Yet around here, speed cameras and red light cameras
>>> generate outrage from one political party - the one that
>>> used to be all about "law and order."
>>>
>>> Speeding on the city central freeway was extreme. Crashes
>>> were frequent. The cops started using speed cameras and
>>> collecting fines. Speeding dropped tremendously, crashes
>>> dropped tremendously. All good, right?
>>>
>>> Not quite. Republicans in the statehouse passed a law saying
>>> state funds to any city would be decreased by the amount the
>>> city received in speed camera fines.
>>>
>>> Camera opponents claimed the purpose of the cameras was just
>>> to make money. But it costs money to run a government. And I
>>> have no problem with collecting some of that money from
>>> people who are violating laws and endangering others.
>>>
>>
>> Both arguments can be true. And often are:
>>
>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bn-xpm-2010-03-22-28507976-story.html
>>
>> Or, tip of the hat to James Madison:
>>
>> https://foundersquotes.com/founding-fathers-quote/if-men-were-angels-no-government-would-be-necessary/
>>
>> In our real world, chiselers and worse gravitate to
>> government contracts and the populace notices that the
>> 'violations' are not always fairly charged.
>>
>> Aside from obscure finagling (such as yellow light timing),
>> it's sometimes openly pernicious policy:
>>
>> https://www.cookcountysouth.com/set-too-low-speed-cameras-snag-hundreds-of-thousands-of-chicagoans-in-a-matter-of-weeks/
>
> So it's O.K.to break the law a little bit?
>

If that's your opinion, you're welcome to it.

Citing a guy for a red light with a below-3-seconds yellow
is not only 'not sporting', it's illegal.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 14:31:54 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 12/6/2021 1:58 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/6/2021 12:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm against purposely shortening yellow light phases to
>>> harvest more tickets. ISTM that should be handled by
>>> statute, as opposed to writing laws designed to entirely
>>> discourage the use of cameras.
>>>
>>> As to people ticketed for driving six or seven mph over the
>>> limit: Are we really supposed to be sympathetic? What part
>>> of (say) "55 MPH", or even "20 MPH" in a school zone, is
>>> hard to understand?
>>>
>>
>> There was, and is an IL  statute.
>>
>> The 'experts' from the vendor and the 'experts' from the various taxing
>> authorities had no incentive at all to comply, to the point of false
>> reports. Anyone surprised at that?
>
>I don't follow. The article you cited above confirmed that Chicago
>officials did NOT shorten yellow light phases. It listed some
>accusations from poor, inconvenienced motorists (who actually had to
>stop for red lights!) but no proof of nefarious behavior by officials.
>
>I've seen plenty of drivers drive at speed through lights that were
>definitely red. Why should they not be fined? Are we supposed to keep
>lengthening yellow phases until they're as long as green phases?

Perhaps I've been wrong for all these years but I always thought that
the yellow light was to allow you to slow down before the red light
came on. Not speed up so you could beat it.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 11:33:03 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/6/2021 1:58 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 12/6/2021 12:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm against purposely shortening yellow light phases to
> >> harvest more tickets. ISTM that should be handled by
> >> statute, as opposed to writing laws designed to entirely
> >> discourage the use of cameras.
> >>
> >> As to people ticketed for driving six or seven mph over the
> >> limit: Are we really supposed to be sympathetic? What part
> >> of (say) "55 MPH", or even "20 MPH" in a school zone, is
> >> hard to understand?
> >>
> >
> > There was, and is an IL statute.
> >
> > The 'experts' from the vendor and the 'experts' from the various taxing
> > authorities had no incentive at all to comply, to the point of false
> > reports. Anyone surprised at that?
> I don't follow. The article you cited above confirmed that Chicago
> officials did NOT shorten yellow light phases. It listed some
> accusations from poor, inconvenienced motorists (who actually had to
> stop for red lights!) but no proof of nefarious behavior by officials.
>
> I've seen plenty of drivers drive at speed through lights that were
> definitely red. Why should they not be fined? Are we supposed to keep
> lengthening yellow phases until they're as long as green phases?
Just this morning I drove through a red like because the light turned yellow before it was too close to stop and it turned red before I got in the intersection. It was my understanding that a yellow was supposed to be on for 5 seconds. This was closer to three.

On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 1:33:07 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/6/2021 1:31 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 12/6/2021 1:58 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 12/6/2021 12:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I'm against purposely shortening yellow light phases to
> >>> harvest more tickets. ISTM that should be handled by
> >>> statute, as opposed to writing laws designed to entirely
> >>> discourage the use of cameras.
> >>>
> >>> As to people ticketed for driving six or seven mph over the
> >>> limit: Are we really supposed to be sympathetic? What part
> >>> of (say) "55 MPH", or even "20 MPH" in a school zone, is
> >>> hard to understand?
> >>>
> >>
> >> There was, and is an ILÂ statute.
> >>
> >> The 'experts' from the vendor and the 'experts' from the
> >> various taxing authorities had no incentive at all to
> >> comply, to the point of false reports. Anyone surprised at
> >> that?
> >
> > I don't follow. The article you cited above confirmed that
> > Chicago officials did NOT shorten yellow light phases. It
> > listed some accusations from poor, inconvenienced motorists
> > (who actually had to stop for red lights!) but no proof of
> > nefarious behavior by officials.
> >
> > I've seen plenty of drivers drive at speed through lights
> > that were definitely red. Why should they not be fined? Are
> > we supposed to keep lengthening yellow phases until they're
> > as long as green phases?
> >
> Perhaps I was not clear.
> Driver is ticketed. Yellow seems to be extremely short. City
> officials claim it wasn't. This was a very hot issue during
> Mr Emanuel's (Mayor Shortfinger) administration.
>
> https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/02/21/critics-chicago-red-light-cameras-cheat-on-yellow-lights/
>
> “By and large, you can talk to anybody on the street and
> there’s a lot of skepticism about the system,” 45th Ward
> Ald. John Arena says.
>
> https://chicagoist.com/2014/12/23/study_shows_red_light_cameras_short.php
>
> "Chicago, by contrast, is sticking to federal and state
> minimums. (CDOT is doing this despite an administrative
> judge’s revelation over the summer he regularly tosses
> between 60-70 percent of disputed red light tickets because
> evidence is present the yellow light times are shorter than
> three seconds.)"
>
> Claiming the minimum 3 seconds while setting lights shorter?
> Why would anyone do that?
>
> "the red-light operation has raked in $375 million in fines."

If anything, I drive below the speed limit. The limit on that street (Doolittle Dr) depending on the area is 35 - 40 mph and across the border into Oakland it is 45 to 55. In either case. anything less than 5 seconds is too short.

On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 3:05:38 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/6/2021 4:36 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Mon, 06 Dec 2021 10:22:40 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/6/2021 9:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> On 12/5/2021 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi
> >>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who
> >>>>>>>> ran red light
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media
> >>>>>>> didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief?
> >>>>>>> As we as probably other robberies?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug
> >>>>>> paraphernalia
> >>>>>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding
> >>>>>> felony and
> >>>>>> misdemeanor warrants"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law
> >>>> enforcement. I'd
> >>>> estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the
> >>>> crime
> >>>> reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant
> >>>> caught in the
> >>>> act.
> >>>>
> >>>> The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras
> >>>> and now if you
> >>>> violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated
> >>>> notice in the
> >>>> mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are
> >>>> pretty hard to
> >>>> deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing
> >>>> the number
> >>>> plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.
> >>>>
> >>>> My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal
> >>>> left turn
> >>>> and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)
> >>>
> >>> Yet around here, speed cameras and red light cameras
> >>> generate outrage from one political party - the one that
> >>> used to be all about "law and order."
> >>>
> >>> Speeding on the city central freeway was extreme. Crashes
> >>> were frequent. The cops started using speed cameras and
> >>> collecting fines. Speeding dropped tremendously, crashes
> >>> dropped tremendously. All good, right?
> >>>
> >>> Not quite. Republicans in the statehouse passed a law saying
> >>> state funds to any city would be decreased by the amount the
> >>> city received in speed camera fines.
> >>>
> >>> Camera opponents claimed the purpose of the cameras was just
> >>> to make money. But it costs money to run a government. And I
> >>> have no problem with collecting some of that money from
> >>> people who are violating laws and endangering others.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Both arguments can be true. And often are:
> >>
> >> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bn-xpm-2010-03-22-28507976-story.html
> >>
> >> Or, tip of the hat to James Madison:
> >>
> >> https://foundersquotes.com/founding-fathers-quote/if-men-were-angels-no-government-would-be-necessary/
> >>
> >> In our real world, chiselers and worse gravitate to
> >> government contracts and the populace notices that the
> >> 'violations' are not always fairly charged.
> >>
> >> Aside from obscure finagling (such as yellow light timing),
> >> it's sometimes openly pernicious policy:
> >>
> >> https://www.cookcountysouth.com/set-too-low-speed-cameras-snag-hundreds-of-thousands-of-chicagoans-in-a-matter-of-weeks/
> >
> > So it's O.K.to break the law a little bit?
> >
>
> If that's your opinion, you're welcome to it.
>
> Citing a guy for a red light with a below-3-seconds yellow
> is not only 'not sporting', it's illegal.

I greatly approve of enforcing traffic laws but not in cheating to hand out tickets.

On 12/6/2021 5:01 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 14:31:54 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 12/6/2021 1:58 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 12/6/2021 12:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm against purposely shortening yellow light phases to
>>>> harvest more tickets. ISTM that should be handled by
>>>> statute, as opposed to writing laws designed to entirely
>>>> discourage the use of cameras.
>>>>
>>>> As to people ticketed for driving six or seven mph over the
>>>> limit: Are we really supposed to be sympathetic? What part
>>>> of (say) "55 MPH", or even "20 MPH" in a school zone, is
>>>> hard to understand?
>>>>
>>>
>>> There was, and is an IL statute.
>>>
>>> The 'experts' from the vendor and the 'experts' from the various taxing
>>> authorities had no incentive at all to comply, to the point of false
>>> reports. Anyone surprised at that?
>>
>> I don't follow. The article you cited above confirmed that Chicago
>> officials did NOT shorten yellow light phases. It listed some
>> accusations from poor, inconvenienced motorists (who actually had to
>> stop for red lights!) but no proof of nefarious behavior by officials.
>>
>> I've seen plenty of drivers drive at speed through lights that were
>> definitely red. Why should they not be fined? Are we supposed to keep
>> lengthening yellow phases until they're as long as green phases?
>
> Perhaps I've been wrong for all these years but I always thought that
> the yellow light was to allow you to slow down before the red light
> came on. Not speed up so you could beat it.
>

Next time you're driving _do not_ look at the sweep hand of
your watch.

Ask passenger to loudly count one-one thousand, two-one
thousand etc. You may be surprised that 3-second (and
shorter) yellows are rare animals. Most are 5+.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 06 Dec 2021 16:44:37 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/6/2021 4:30 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 10:46:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/5/2021 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
>>>>>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who ran red light
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief? As we as probably other robberies?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug paraphernalia
>>>>>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding felony and
>>>>>> misdemeanor warrants"
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html
>>>>
>>>> Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law enforcement. I'd
>>>> estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the crime
>>>> reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant caught in the
>>>> act.
>>>>
>>>> The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras and now if you
>>>> violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated notice in the
>>>> mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are pretty hard to
>>>> deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing the number
>>>> plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.
>>>>
>>>> My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal left turn
>>>> and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)
>>>
>>> Yet around here, speed cameras and red light cameras generate outrage
>>>from one political party - the one that used to be all about "law and
>>> order."
>>>
>>> Speeding on the city central freeway was extreme. Crashes were frequent.
>>> The cops started using speed cameras and collecting fines. Speeding
>>> dropped tremendously, crashes dropped tremendously. All good, right?
>>>
>>> Not quite. Republicans in the statehouse passed a law saying state funds
>>> to any city would be decreased by the amount the city received in speed
>>> camera fines.
>>>
>>> Camera opponents claimed the purpose of the cameras was just to make
>>> money. But it costs money to run a government. And I have no problem
>>> with collecting some of that money from people who are violating laws
>>> and endangering others.
>>
>> I suppose that the theory is "well you need X dollars, what difference
>> does it make where you get it?"
>>
>> But more seriously, how much money was collected from fines for
>> speeding?
>>
>
>City of Chicago roughly $1,100,000 per month
>
>Who pays?
>https://www.mallonmars.com/blog/article/chicago-speed-cameras-largely-impact-black-and-brown-drivers-according-to-advocacy-group/
>
>The speed cameras are newish, the real money is in red light
>cams:
>https://www.illinoispolicy.org/reports/illinois-red-light-cameras-have-collected-more-than-1b-from-drivers-since-2008/
>
>or something well over $8 million per month through 2018.

Your reference seems to say that the fine for red light malfeasance is
$100 so 8 million divided by 100 is 80,000 driver. Too stupid to stop
for a red light?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 06 Dec 2021 16:48:02 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/6/2021 4:36 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 06 Dec 2021 10:22:40 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/6/2021 9:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 12/5/2021 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi
>>>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who
>>>>>>>>> ran red light
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media
>>>>>>>> didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief?
>>>>>>>> As we as probably other robberies?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug
>>>>>>> paraphernalia
>>>>>>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding
>>>>>>> felony and
>>>>>>> misdemeanor warrants"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law
>>>>> enforcement. I'd
>>>>> estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the
>>>>> crime
>>>>> reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant
>>>>> caught in the
>>>>> act.
>>>>>
>>>>> The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras
>>>>> and now if you
>>>>> violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated
>>>>> notice in the
>>>>> mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are
>>>>> pretty hard to
>>>>> deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing
>>>>> the number
>>>>> plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.
>>>>>
>>>>> My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal
>>>>> left turn
>>>>> and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)
>>>>
>>>> Yet around here, speed cameras and red light cameras
>>>> generate outrage from one political party - the one that
>>>> used to be all about "law and order."
>>>>
>>>> Speeding on the city central freeway was extreme. Crashes
>>>> were frequent. The cops started using speed cameras and
>>>> collecting fines. Speeding dropped tremendously, crashes
>>>> dropped tremendously. All good, right?
>>>>
>>>> Not quite. Republicans in the statehouse passed a law saying
>>>> state funds to any city would be decreased by the amount the
>>>> city received in speed camera fines.
>>>>
>>>> Camera opponents claimed the purpose of the cameras was just
>>>> to make money. But it costs money to run a government. And I
>>>> have no problem with collecting some of that money from
>>>> people who are violating laws and endangering others.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Both arguments can be true. And often are:
>>>
>>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bn-xpm-2010-03-22-28507976-story.html
>>>
>>> Or, tip of the hat to James Madison:
>>>
>>> https://foundersquotes.com/founding-fathers-quote/if-men-were-angels-no-government-would-be-necessary/
>>>
>>> In our real world, chiselers and worse gravitate to
>>> government contracts and the populace notices that the
>>> 'violations' are not always fairly charged.
>>>
>>> Aside from obscure finagling (such as yellow light timing),
>>> it's sometimes openly pernicious policy:
>>>
>>> https://www.cookcountysouth.com/set-too-low-speed-cameras-snag-hundreds-of-thousands-of-chicagoans-in-a-matter-of-weeks/
>>
>> So it's O.K.to break the law a little bit?
>>
>
>If that's your opinion, you're welcome to it.
>
>Citing a guy for a red light with a below-3-seconds yellow
>is not only 'not sporting', it's illegal.

I have no idea what your traffic laws are but here the "yellow light"
is a signal for the driver to reduce speed so that he can stop when
the red light comes on. Not "put the pedal to the metal" and try to
beat the red light.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/6/2021 6:43 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Dec 2021 16:44:37 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 12/6/2021 4:30 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 10:46:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/5/2021 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 05 Dec 2021 17:52:33 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/5/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:11:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 9:00:37 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Bay Area CHP brings in helicopter to catch cyclist who ran red light
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/redwood-city-cyclist-ran-red-light-chp-helicopter-16673514.php>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why don't you think that the far left radical media didn't report that this was a suspected bicycle thief? As we as probably other robberies?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, they just reported that "methamphetamines and drug paraphernalia
>>>>>>> were found on the suspect, who also had an outstanding felony and
>>>>>>> misdemeanor warrants"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are plenty enough stolen bicycles already:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/bucktown-burglars-get-away-with-high-end-bikes-worth-thouand-but-their-plan-had-some-holes-in-it.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Yup, Surveillance cameras are a great boon to law enforcement. I'd
>>>>> estimate, that at least half, or maybe even more, of the crime
>>>>> reported in the news includes a photo of the miscreant caught in the
>>>>> act.
>>>>>
>>>>> The authorities also have automated the traffic cameras and now if you
>>>>> violate traffic rules you may get a computer generated notice in the
>>>>> mail to pay the fine for your sinful act. And they are pretty hard to
>>>>> deny as the "ticket" includes a photo of your car, showing the number
>>>>> plate, "red handed" in the act, so to speak.
>>>>>
>>>>> My wife got one the other day charging her with an illegal left turn
>>>>> and she couldn't even remember where it happened (:-)
>>>>
>>>> Yet around here, speed cameras and red light cameras generate outrage
>>> >from one political party - the one that used to be all about "law and
>>>> order."
>>>>
>>>> Speeding on the city central freeway was extreme. Crashes were frequent.
>>>> The cops started using speed cameras and collecting fines. Speeding
>>>> dropped tremendously, crashes dropped tremendously. All good, right?
>>>>
>>>> Not quite. Republicans in the statehouse passed a law saying state funds
>>>> to any city would be decreased by the amount the city received in speed
>>>> camera fines.
>>>>
>>>> Camera opponents claimed the purpose of the cameras was just to make
>>>> money. But it costs money to run a government. And I have no problem
>>>> with collecting some of that money from people who are violating laws
>>>> and endangering others.
>>>
>>> I suppose that the theory is "well you need X dollars, what difference
>>> does it make where you get it?"
>>>
>>> But more seriously, how much money was collected from fines for
>>> speeding?
>>>
>>
>> City of Chicago roughly $1,100,000 per month
>>
>> Who pays?
>> https://www.mallonmars.com/blog/article/chicago-speed-cameras-largely-impact-black-and-brown-drivers-according-to-advocacy-group/
>>
>> The speed cameras are newish, the real money is in red light
>> cams:
>> https://www.illinoispolicy.org/reports/illinois-red-light-cameras-have-collected-more-than-1b-from-drivers-since-2008/
>>
>> or something well over $8 million per month through 2018.
>
> Your reference seems to say that the fine for red light malfeasance is
> $100 so 8 million divided by 100 is 80,000 driver. Too stupid to stop
> for a red light?
>

In two seconds? Maybe, maybe not.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971