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tech / rec.crafts.metalworking / Re: Power feed blowup

SubjectAuthor
* Power feed blowupSnag
+* Re: Power feed blowupSpehro Pefhany
|`- Re: Power feed blowupBob Engelhardt
+* Re: Power feed blowupDavid Billington
|+- Re: Power feed blowupSpehro Pefhany
|`- Re: Power feed blowupSnag
+- Re: Power feed blowupJim Wilkins
`* Re: Power feed blowupJim Wilkins
 `* Re: Power feed blowupSnag
  `* Re: Power feed blowupJoe Gwinn
   +- Re: Power feed blowupJim Wilkins
   `- Re: Power feed blowupSnag

1
Power feed blowup

<se4dpj$hpq$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Snag_...@msn.com (Snag)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Power feed blowup
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 16:02:47 -0500
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 by: Snag - Sat, 31 Jul 2021 21:02 UTC

A few weeks ago I was going to use my power feed on the mill to get a
uniform travel speed for a MIG weld . Don't know if it was having the
welder ground on the mill or just chance , but when I turned on the PF
it popped the breaker built into the PF. So I pushed the reset , and
that's when the magic smoke was released ...
I've replaced it already but got curious . So today I pulled it apart
and discovered a trace on the circuit board is fried . This trace goes
to the neon power light from the 110v supply input plug on the board .
Other side of the neon bulb goes to a small resistor , then somewhere
else . Something else I found is that a pair of 1N5404 diodes - each
connects to one side of the 110v input plug on one end and both are
connected to the same trace on the other end - both show 0 resistance
both directions . No other discrete component on the board shows any
sign of damage . I can get a replacement board for 65 bucks +s/h/t but I
only paid 50 bucks for this thing originally so ... anybody familiar
with these circuit boards ? All my electronic training was a long time
ago and while I can trace circuits on a board it doesn't mean anything
without a schematic . But I do think the blown diodes may be the problem
.... OR they could be result of the real problem ... or ...
I can get those diodes for .55 each , cheap enough I think I'll order
some . Hey , they're bad and will need to be replaced anyway if this
thing's gonna ever work again . If I can get it working , it'll be the
basis for a variable speed rotater for welding - with the work suitably
insulated from the unit !
--
Snag
Race only matters to racists ...

Re: Power feed blowup

<uvgbgg5e356j6k6hrgr8jpt281jg94qfcg@4ax.com>

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From: speffS...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat (Spehro Pefhany)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Power feed blowup
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 17:46:25 -0400
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 by: Spehro Pefhany - Sat, 31 Jul 2021 21:46 UTC

On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 16:02:47 -0500, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

> A few weeks ago I was going to use my power feed on the mill to get a
>uniform travel speed for a MIG weld . Don't know if it was having the
>welder ground on the mill or just chance , but when I turned on the PF
>it popped the breaker built into the PF. So I pushed the reset , and
>that's when the magic smoke was released ...
> I've replaced it already but got curious . So today I pulled it apart
>and discovered a trace on the circuit board is fried . This trace goes
>to the neon power light from the 110v supply input plug on the board .
>Other side of the neon bulb goes to a small resistor , then somewhere
>else . Something else I found is that a pair of 1N5404 diodes - each
>connects to one side of the 110v input plug on one end and both are
>connected to the same trace on the other end - both show 0 resistance
>both directions . No other discrete component on the board shows any
>sign of damage . I can get a replacement board for 65 bucks +s/h/t but I
>only paid 50 bucks for this thing originally so ... anybody familiar
>with these circuit boards ? All my electronic training was a long time
>ago and while I can trace circuits on a board it doesn't mean anything
>without a schematic . But I do think the blown diodes may be the problem
>... OR they could be result of the real problem ... or ...
> I can get those diodes for .55 each , cheap enough I think I'll order
>some . Hey , they're bad and will need to be replaced anyway if this
>thing's gonna ever work again . If I can get it working , it'll be the
>basis for a variable speed rotater for welding - with the work suitably
>insulated from the unit !

Not familiar with those particular boards, but if you try the
replacements (and I see no reason not to) you might as well get 1N5407
or 1N5408 diodes. They're bound to cost almost the same and have much
higher voltage rating (probably what killed the originals)

https://www.vishay.com/docs/88516/1n5400.pdf

--
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Re: Power feed blowup

<se4gjp02le7@news2.newsguy.com>

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From: BobEngel...@comcast.net (Bob Engelhardt)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Power feed blowup
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 17:50:51 -0400
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 by: Bob Engelhardt - Sat, 31 Jul 2021 21:50 UTC

Try on sci.electronics.repair

Re: Power feed blowup

<se4nln$m7h$1@dont-email.me>

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From: djb...@invalid.com (David Billington)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Power feed blowup
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 00:51:18 +0100
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 by: David Billington - Sat, 31 Jul 2021 23:51 UTC

On 31/07/2021 22:02, Snag wrote:
>   A few weeks ago I was going to use my power feed on the mill to get
> a uniform travel speed for a MIG weld . Don't know if it was having
> the welder ground on the mill or just chance , but when I turned on
> the PF it popped the breaker built into the PF. So I pushed the reset
> , and that's when the magic smoke was released ...
>   I've replaced it already but got curious . So today I pulled it
> apart and discovered a trace on the circuit board is fried . This
> trace goes to the neon power light from the 110v supply input plug on
> the board . Other side of the neon bulb goes to a small resistor ,
> then somewhere else . Something else I found is that a pair of 1N5404
> diodes - each connects to one side of the 110v input plug on one end
> and both are connected to the same trace on the other end - both show
> 0 resistance both directions . No other discrete component on the
> board shows any sign of damage . I can get a replacement board for 65
> bucks +s/h/t but I only paid 50 bucks for this thing originally so ...
> anybody familiar with these circuit boards ? All my electronic
> training was a long time ago and while I can trace circuits on a board
> it doesn't mean anything without a schematic . But I do think the
> blown diodes may be the problem ... OR they could be  result of the
> real problem ... or ...
>   I can get those diodes for .55 each , cheap enough I think I'll
> order some . Hey , they're bad and will need to be replaced anyway if
> this thing's gonna ever work again . If I can get it working , it'll
> be the basis for a variable speed rotater for welding - with the work
> suitably insulated from the unit !

You didn't mention what power feed it is but if an Align a schematic is
available in the manual if this model
http://www.align.com.tw/ManuaLib/powerfeed/G00400-AL500D.pdf , there may
be others. It does seem to show the diodes you mention.

Re: Power feed blowup

<u09cgg58qpu1te75b1nkb3i6bipbkm92vb@4ax.com>

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From: speffS...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat (Spehro Pefhany)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Power feed blowup
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 00:34:04 -0400
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 by: Spehro Pefhany - Sun, 1 Aug 2021 04:34 UTC

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 00:51:18 +0100, David Billington <djb@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 31/07/2021 22:02, Snag wrote:
>>   A few weeks ago I was going to use my power feed on the mill to get
>> a uniform travel speed for a MIG weld . Don't know if it was having
>> the welder ground on the mill or just chance , but when I turned on
>> the PF it popped the breaker built into the PF. So I pushed the reset
>> , and that's when the magic smoke was released ...
>>   I've replaced it already but got curious . So today I pulled it
>> apart and discovered a trace on the circuit board is fried . This
>> trace goes to the neon power light from the 110v supply input plug on
>> the board . Other side of the neon bulb goes to a small resistor ,
>> then somewhere else . Something else I found is that a pair of 1N5404
>> diodes - each connects to one side of the 110v input plug on one end
>> and both are connected to the same trace on the other end - both show
>> 0 resistance both directions . No other discrete component on the
>> board shows any sign of damage . I can get a replacement board for 65
>> bucks +s/h/t but I only paid 50 bucks for this thing originally so ...
>> anybody familiar with these circuit boards ? All my electronic
>> training was a long time ago and while I can trace circuits on a board
>> it doesn't mean anything without a schematic . But I do think the
>> blown diodes may be the problem ... OR they could be  result of the
>> real problem ... or ...
>>   I can get those diodes for .55 each , cheap enough I think I'll
>> order some . Hey , they're bad and will need to be replaced anyway if
>> this thing's gonna ever work again . If I can get it working , it'll
>> be the basis for a variable speed rotater for welding - with the work
>> suitably insulated from the unit !
>
>You didn't mention what power feed it is but if an Align a schematic is
>available in the manual if this model
>http://www.align.com.tw/ManuaLib/powerfeed/G00400-AL500D.pdf , there may
>be others. It does seem to show the diodes you mention.

Better than nothing, but not a very nice schematic. The SCRs would be
suspect too. As well as the varistor.
--
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Re: Power feed blowup

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Power feed blowup
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 06:53:41 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Sun, 1 Aug 2021 10:53 UTC

"Snag" wrote in message news:se4dpj$hpq$1@dont-email.me...

A few weeks ago I was going to use my power feed on the mill to get a
uniform travel speed for a MIG weld . Don't know if it was having the
welder ground on the mill or just chance , but when I turned on the PF
it popped the breaker built into the PF. So I pushed the reset , and
that's when the magic smoke was released ...
---------------------------

Whatever stray current popped the electronics is also likely to damage any
sliding or rotating surfaces it flows between.

https://evolution.skf.com/us/prevention-of-electric-erosion-in-bearings-2/

Re: Power feed blowup

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Power feed blowup
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 07:24:03 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Sun, 1 Aug 2021 11:24 UTC

"Snag" wrote in message news:se4dpj$hpq$1@dont-email.me...

A few weeks ago I was going to use my power feed on the mill to get a
uniform travel speed for a MIG weld . Don't know if it was having the
welder ground on the mill or just chance , but when I turned on the PF
it popped the breaker built into the PF. So I pushed the reset , and
that's when the magic smoke was released ...
-------------------------------------

Was the MIG turned on? If the only change was grounding the mill, the power
feed may have had an undiscovered defect. Grounding faults can be difficult
to trace with a voltmeter and a clamp-on ammeter may be helpful. I like the
Uni-T UT210E which resolves to 1mA AC and DC:

Re: Power feed blowup

<se6235$o34$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Snag_...@msn.com (Snag)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Power feed blowup
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 06:55:15 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Snag - Sun, 1 Aug 2021 11:55 UTC

On 7/31/2021 6:51 PM, David Billington wrote:
> On 31/07/2021 22:02, Snag wrote:
>>   A few weeks ago I was going to use my power feed on the mill to get
>> a uniform travel speed for a MIG weld . Don't know if it was having
>> the welder ground on the mill or just chance , but when I turned on
>> the PF it popped the breaker built into the PF. So I pushed the reset
>> , and that's when the magic smoke was released ...
>>   I've replaced it already but got curious . So today I pulled it
>> apart and discovered a trace on the circuit board is fried . This
>> trace goes to the neon power light from the 110v supply input plug on
>> the board . Other side of the neon bulb goes to a small resistor ,
>> then somewhere else . Something else I found is that a pair of 1N5404
>> diodes - each connects to one side of the 110v input plug on one end
>> and both are connected to the same trace on the other end - both show
>> 0 resistance both directions . No other discrete component on the
>> board shows any sign of damage . I can get a replacement board for 65
>> bucks +s/h/t but I only paid 50 bucks for this thing originally so ...
>> anybody familiar with these circuit boards ? All my electronic
>> training was a long time ago and while I can trace circuits on a board
>> it doesn't mean anything without a schematic . But I do think the
>> blown diodes may be the problem ... OR they could be  result of the
>> real problem ... or ...
>>   I can get those diodes for .55 each , cheap enough I think I'll
>> order some . Hey , they're bad and will need to be replaced anyway if
>> this thing's gonna ever work again . If I can get it working , it'll
>> be the basis for a variable speed rotater for welding - with the work
>> suitably insulated from the unit !
>
> You didn't mention what power feed it is but if an Align a schematic is
> available in the manual if this model
> http://www.align.com.tw/ManuaLib/powerfeed/G00400-AL500D.pdf , there may
> be others. It does seem to show the diodes you mention.
>

It's branded Central Machinery , made by asong , and one of the Align
boards looks identical . That's where I got the 65 dollar price tag .
I'll look at that schematic !
--
Snag
Race only matters to racists ...

Re: Power feed blowup

<se62mi$s9v$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Snag_...@msn.com (Snag)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Power feed blowup
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 07:05:36 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Snag - Sun, 1 Aug 2021 12:05 UTC

On 8/1/2021 6:24 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Snag"  wrote in message news:se4dpj$hpq$1@dont-email.me...
>
>   A few weeks ago I was going to use my power feed on the mill to get a
> uniform travel speed for a MIG weld . Don't know if it was having the
> welder ground on the mill or just chance , but when I turned on the PF
> it popped the breaker built into the PF. So I pushed the reset , and
> that's when the magic smoke was released ...
> -------------------------------------
>
> Was the MIG turned on? If the only change was grounding the mill, the
> power feed may have had an undiscovered defect. Grounding faults can be
> difficult to trace with a voltmeter and a clamp-on ammeter may be
> helpful. I like the Uni-T UT210E which resolves to 1mA AC and DC:
>

I've ordered the diodes , after replacing them I'll check for
voltage/current on the damaged trace . That is , between the 2 points
that trace connects . This unit was purchased new old stock in the
original box and I've already had to replace the speed control pot ...
if it wasn't so damned handy I'd have gone back to manual feed on that
axis . But now I'm spoiled by the ease of getting a nice finish without
cranking until my arm falls off .
--
Snag
Race only matters to racists ...

Re: Power feed blowup

<foidggpibmmfc6p5ubo5ssbmh333ccurho@4ax.com>

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From: joegw...@comcast.net (Joe Gwinn)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Power feed blowup
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 12:33:49 -0400
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 by: Joe Gwinn - Sun, 1 Aug 2021 16:33 UTC

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 07:05:36 -0500, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

>On 8/1/2021 6:24 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:se4dpj$hpq$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>>   A few weeks ago I was going to use my power feed on the mill to get a
>> uniform travel speed for a MIG weld . Don't know if it was having the
>> welder ground on the mill or just chance , but when I turned on the PF
>> it popped the breaker built into the PF. So I pushed the reset , and
>> that's when the magic smoke was released ...
>> -------------------------------------
>>
>> Was the MIG turned on? If the only change was grounding the mill, the
>> power feed may have had an undiscovered defect. Grounding faults can be
>> difficult to trace with a voltmeter and a clamp-on ammeter may be
>> helpful. I like the Uni-T UT210E which resolves to 1mA AC and DC:
>>
>
> I've ordered the diodes , after replacing them I'll check for
>voltage/current on the damaged trace . That is , between the 2 points
>that trace connects . This unit was purchased new old stock in the
>original box and I've already had to replace the speed control pot ...
>if it wasn't so damned handy I'd have gone back to manual feed on that
>axis . But now I'm spoiled by the ease of getting a nice finish without
>cranking until my arm falls off .

I have a Millrite MVI that came with an Asong unit on the X-axis (side
to side). It was always blowing speed pots. I have an electronics
background, so I repaired it, upgrading the pot in the process.
Multiple times, ultimately to no avail, so I replaced the unit.

It had a basic design problem, but I never did figure out the details,
as the "schematic" was nothing of the kind. Not only did it not match
the unit, it claimed an impossible circuit. Gibberish.

What I replaced it with is Servo's low-cost alternative to their
standard unit. Works just fine. Took some lathe work to make the
adapters to fit the MVI. They do have stock adapter kits for Bport et
al.

Joe Gwinn

Re: Power feed blowup

<se7eoi$4ud$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=4803&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#4803

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Power feed blowup
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 20:37:28 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Mon, 2 Aug 2021 00:37 UTC

"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
news:foidggpibmmfc6p5ubo5ssbmh333ccurho@4ax.com...

....They do have stock adapter kits for Bport et
al.

Joe Gwinn

-------------------------

Joe knows his Latin.

I use etc even when et al. might be more appropriate because etc is more
common and perhaps better understood.

Survey: who / knows / doesn't know / doesn't care / what et al. means?

Re: Power feed blowup

<se8mvo$3mh$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

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From: Snag_...@msn.com (Snag)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Power feed blowup
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 07:04:07 -0500
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 by: Snag - Mon, 2 Aug 2021 12:04 UTC

On 8/1/2021 11:33 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 07:05:36 -0500, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/1/2021 6:24 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:se4dpj$hpq$1@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>>   A few weeks ago I was going to use my power feed on the mill to get a
>>> uniform travel speed for a MIG weld . Don't know if it was having the
>>> welder ground on the mill or just chance , but when I turned on the PF
>>> it popped the breaker built into the PF. So I pushed the reset , and
>>> that's when the magic smoke was released ...
>>> -------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Was the MIG turned on? If the only change was grounding the mill, the
>>> power feed may have had an undiscovered defect. Grounding faults can be
>>> difficult to trace with a voltmeter and a clamp-on ammeter may be
>>> helpful. I like the Uni-T UT210E which resolves to 1mA AC and DC:
>>>
>>
>> I've ordered the diodes , after replacing them I'll check for
>> voltage/current on the damaged trace . That is , between the 2 points
>> that trace connects . This unit was purchased new old stock in the
>> original box and I've already had to replace the speed control pot ...
>> if it wasn't so damned handy I'd have gone back to manual feed on that
>> axis . But now I'm spoiled by the ease of getting a nice finish without
>> cranking until my arm falls off .
>
> I have a Millrite MVI that came with an Asong unit on the X-axis (side
> to side). It was always blowing speed pots. I have an electronics
> background, so I repaired it, upgrading the pot in the process.
> Multiple times, ultimately to no avail, so I replaced the unit.
>
> It had a basic design problem, but I never did figure out the details,
> as the "schematic" was nothing of the kind. Not only did it not match
> the unit, it claimed an impossible circuit. Gibberish.
>
> What I replaced it with is Servo's low-cost alternative to their
> standard unit. Works just fine. Took some lathe work to make the
> adapters to fit the MVI. They do have stock adapter kits for Bport et
> al.
>
> Joe Gwinn
>

I had to fabricate mounts and modify parts to adapt the first one , I
just had to modify the ring gear and resize a spacer for the second one .
--
Snag
Race only matters to racists ...

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor