On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 11:02:09 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 12/17/2021 10:38 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 21:33:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/17/2021 7:25 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 12:51:22 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 11:14:07 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But that brings up another point: How much time does 57 save me vs. 50
>>>>>>> mph? If I'm driving the entire 10 miles, it's only 90 seconds
>>>>>>> difference. And that's the general rule, I think: most time savings are,
>>>>>>> practically speaking, negligible.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone remember Uncle Tom McCahill, who wrote about automobiles
>>>> for a number of magazines including Mechanix Illustrated Magazine. He
>>>> was, perhaps, the first writer to write well though out road tests for
>>>> all sorts of automobiles in the late '40's and '50's.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, one of his "tests" was to drive from the east coast to the
>>>> west coast religiously obeying all posted speed limits, remember this
>>>> was before the U.S, built their own Autobahn system, and then return,
>>>> driving at the fastest speeds possible. The difference was only a
>>>> matter of a few hours over approximately a 2500 mile trip.
>>>
>>> I remember Tom McCahill well!
>>
>> Andrew (who I believe is a Corvair freak) might be interested that
>> Uncle Tom tested the Chevrolet Corvair in 1959 and reported that he
>> was pleased with the handling characteristics and that the Corvair
>> handled better than the 1959 Porsche. (:-)
>
>Mine was a 1966 Corvair, and it handled beautifully. But that's a
>"second generation" model with a more sophisticated rear suspension.
>
>One of my best friends is currently restoring a first generation, swing
>axle Corvair. I'll be very interested in giving it a test drive.

Yup the infamous "swing axle". Just like the Porsche 356, and the
Mercedes 190SL and 300SL (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 10:29:10 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/18/2021 10:02 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 12/17/2021 10:38 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 21:33:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/17/2021 7:25 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 12:51:22 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 11:14:07 AM UTC-5,
>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But that brings up another point: How much time does
>>>>>>>> 57 save me vs. 50
>>>>>>>> mph? If I'm driving the entire 10 miles, it's only 90
>>>>>>>> seconds
>>>>>>>> difference. And that's the general rule, I think:
>>>>>>>> most time savings are,
>>>>>>>> practically speaking, negligible.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone remember Uncle Tom McCahill, who wrote about
>>>>> automobiles
>>>>> for a number of magazines including Mechanix Illustrated
>>>>> Magazine. He
>>>>> was, perhaps, the first writer to write well though out
>>>>> road tests for
>>>>> all sorts of automobiles in the late '40's and '50's.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, one of his "tests" was to drive from the east
>>>>> coast to the
>>>>> west coast religiously obeying all posted speed limits,
>>>>> remember this
>>>>> was before the U.S, built their own Autobahn system, and
>>>>> then return,
>>>>> driving at the fastest speeds possible. The difference
>>>>> was only a
>>>>> matter of a few hours over approximately a 2500 mile trip.
>>>>
>>>> I remember Tom McCahill well!
>>>
>>> Andrew (who I believe is a Corvair freak) might be
>>> interested that
>>> Uncle Tom tested the Chevrolet Corvair in 1959 and
>>> reported that he
>>> was pleased with the handling characteristics and that the
>>> Corvair
>>> handled better than the 1959 Porsche. (:-)
>>
>> Mine was a 1966 Corvair, and it handled beautifully. But
>> that's a "second generation" model with a more sophisticated
>> rear suspension.
>>
>> One of my best friends is currently restoring a first
>> generation, swing axle Corvair. I'll be very interested in
>> giving it a test drive.
>>
>
>One of my brothers has a '62 convertible with one of my
>140HP engines. Seems fine but the swing axle does not lend
>itself to aggressive cornering (see also Ernie Kovacs). The
>early model lines are cute in their own way, just drive it
>like an old lady.

But the Corvair wasn't marketed as a performance car, was it (:-?)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/18/2021 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 10:29:10 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 12/18/2021 10:02 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 12/17/2021 10:38 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 21:33:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/17/2021 7:25 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 12:51:22 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 11:14:07 AM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But that brings up another point: How much time does
>>>>>>>>> 57 save me vs. 50
>>>>>>>>> mph? If I'm driving the entire 10 miles, it's only 90
>>>>>>>>> seconds
>>>>>>>>> difference. And that's the general rule, I think:
>>>>>>>>> most time savings are,
>>>>>>>>> practically speaking, negligible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone remember Uncle Tom McCahill, who wrote about
>>>>>> automobiles
>>>>>> for a number of magazines including Mechanix Illustrated
>>>>>> Magazine. He
>>>>>> was, perhaps, the first writer to write well though out
>>>>>> road tests for
>>>>>> all sorts of automobiles in the late '40's and '50's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, one of his "tests" was to drive from the east
>>>>>> coast to the
>>>>>> west coast religiously obeying all posted speed limits,
>>>>>> remember this
>>>>>> was before the U.S, built their own Autobahn system, and
>>>>>> then return,
>>>>>> driving at the fastest speeds possible. The difference
>>>>>> was only a
>>>>>> matter of a few hours over approximately a 2500 mile trip.
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember Tom McCahill well!
>>>>
>>>> Andrew (who I believe is a Corvair freak) might be
>>>> interested that
>>>> Uncle Tom tested the Chevrolet Corvair in 1959 and
>>>> reported that he
>>>> was pleased with the handling characteristics and that the
>>>> Corvair
>>>> handled better than the 1959 Porsche. (:-)
>>>
>>> Mine was a 1966 Corvair, and it handled beautifully. But
>>> that's a "second generation" model with a more sophisticated
>>> rear suspension.
>>>
>>> One of my best friends is currently restoring a first
>>> generation, swing axle Corvair. I'll be very interested in
>>> giving it a test drive.
>>>
>>
>> One of my brothers has a '62 convertible with one of my
>> 140HP engines. Seems fine but the swing axle does not lend
>> itself to aggressive cornering (see also Ernie Kovacs). The
>> early model lines are cute in their own way, just drive it
>> like an old lady.
>
> But the Corvair wasn't marketed as a performance car, was it (:-?)

Some were! Mine was, a 140 HP version with four carburetors. Others came
with 180 HP, turbocharged. Quite peppy for the day.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 18:56:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 12/18/2021 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 10:29:10 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/18/2021 10:02 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 12/17/2021 10:38 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 21:33:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/17/2021 7:25 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 12:51:22 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 11:14:07 AM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But that brings up another point: How much time does
>>>>>>>>>> 57 save me vs. 50
>>>>>>>>>> mph? If I'm driving the entire 10 miles, it's only 90
>>>>>>>>>> seconds
>>>>>>>>>> difference. And that's the general rule, I think:
>>>>>>>>>> most time savings are,
>>>>>>>>>> practically speaking, negligible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does anyone remember Uncle Tom McCahill, who wrote about
>>>>>>> automobiles
>>>>>>> for a number of magazines including Mechanix Illustrated
>>>>>>> Magazine. He
>>>>>>> was, perhaps, the first writer to write well though out
>>>>>>> road tests for
>>>>>>> all sorts of automobiles in the late '40's and '50's.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, one of his "tests" was to drive from the east
>>>>>>> coast to the
>>>>>>> west coast religiously obeying all posted speed limits,
>>>>>>> remember this
>>>>>>> was before the U.S, built their own Autobahn system, and
>>>>>>> then return,
>>>>>>> driving at the fastest speeds possible. The difference
>>>>>>> was only a
>>>>>>> matter of a few hours over approximately a 2500 mile trip.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember Tom McCahill well!
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew (who I believe is a Corvair freak) might be
>>>>> interested that
>>>>> Uncle Tom tested the Chevrolet Corvair in 1959 and
>>>>> reported that he
>>>>> was pleased with the handling characteristics and that the
>>>>> Corvair
>>>>> handled better than the 1959 Porsche. (:-)
>>>>
>>>> Mine was a 1966 Corvair, and it handled beautifully. But
>>>> that's a "second generation" model with a more sophisticated
>>>> rear suspension.
>>>>
>>>> One of my best friends is currently restoring a first
>>>> generation, swing axle Corvair. I'll be very interested in
>>>> giving it a test drive.
>>>>
>>>
>>> One of my brothers has a '62 convertible with one of my
>>> 140HP engines. Seems fine but the swing axle does not lend
>>> itself to aggressive cornering (see also Ernie Kovacs). The
>>> early model lines are cute in their own way, just drive it
>>> like an old lady.
>>
>> But the Corvair wasn't marketed as a performance car, was it (:-?)
>
>Some were! Mine was, a 140 HP version with four carburetors. Others came
>with 180 HP, turbocharged. Quite peppy for the day.

Well, I guess my experience with Corvairs was somewhat restricted as
the only one I owned was a rock, stock, model I bought for my wife to
drive while I was in Vietnam, which I sold practically the day I got
back home. She liked it though and complained about the "big car" I
later bought. Big car in the sense of a "station wagon" (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/18/2021 5:56 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/18/2021 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 10:29:10 -0600, AMuzi
>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/18/2021 10:02 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 12/17/2021 10:38 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 21:33:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/17/2021 7:25 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 12:51:22 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 11:14:07 AM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But that brings up another point: How much time does
>>>>>>>>>> 57 save me vs. 50
>>>>>>>>>> mph? If I'm driving the entire 10 miles, it's only 90
>>>>>>>>>> seconds
>>>>>>>>>> difference. And that's the general rule, I think:
>>>>>>>>>> most time savings are,
>>>>>>>>>> practically speaking, negligible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does anyone remember Uncle Tom McCahill, who wrote about
>>>>>>> automobiles
>>>>>>> for a number of magazines including Mechanix Illustrated
>>>>>>> Magazine. He
>>>>>>> was, perhaps, the first writer to write well though out
>>>>>>> road tests for
>>>>>>> all sorts of automobiles in the late '40's and '50's.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, one of his "tests" was to drive from the east
>>>>>>> coast to the
>>>>>>> west coast religiously obeying all posted speed limits,
>>>>>>> remember this
>>>>>>> was before the U.S, built their own Autobahn system, and
>>>>>>> then return,
>>>>>>> driving at the fastest speeds possible. The difference
>>>>>>> was only a
>>>>>>> matter of a few hours over approximately a 2500 mile
>>>>>>> trip.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember Tom McCahill well!
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew (who I believe is a Corvair freak) might be
>>>>> interested that
>>>>> Uncle Tom tested the Chevrolet Corvair in 1959 and
>>>>> reported that he
>>>>> was pleased with the handling characteristics and that the
>>>>> Corvair
>>>>> handled better than the 1959 Porsche. (:-)
>>>>
>>>> Mine was a 1966 Corvair, and it handled beautifully. But
>>>> that's a "second generation" model with a more
>>>> sophisticated
>>>> rear suspension.
>>>>
>>>> One of my best friends is currently restoring a first
>>>> generation, swing axle Corvair. I'll be very interested in
>>>> giving it a test drive.
>>>>
>>>
>>> One of my brothers has a '62 convertible with one of my
>>> 140HP engines. Seems fine but the swing axle does not lend
>>> itself to aggressive cornering (see also Ernie Kovacs). The
>>> early model lines are cute in their own way, just drive it
>>> like an old lady.
>>
>> But the Corvair wasn't marketed as a performance car, was
>> it (:-?)
>
> Some were! Mine was, a 140 HP version with four carburetors.
> Others came with 180 HP, turbocharged. Quite peppy for the day.
>
>

Corvairs (actually Yenkos) were competitive against the
latest factory cars in D class SCCA racing through the 1980s.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Am 17.12.2021 um 19:33 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:44:11 PM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>
>> Recently, I had to drive to a funeral some 300 miles away, rushing there
>> on the Friday afternoon and rushing home on the Sunday on the Autobahn
>> (with my son playing in a concert for the 50th anniversaty of his music
>> scholl in the late afternoon).
>> Doing a constant 90 on the way there and going 100 to 115 on the empty
>> roads on the way home, I had to re-fuel after 300 miles as opposed to
>> the normal 500 miles per tank (gaining 20 minutes by going 115 tops
>> instead of the usual 80 and losing 15 minutes at the additional fuelling
>> stop - doing my usual 70 to 80 would have needed one fuel stop on the
>> way out and none on the way back).
>
> It takes you 15 minutes to fill your tank?

If I wish to pay normal prices, yes (grabbing numbers out of hot air;
the 15 minutes are approximate as seen on ETA home after re-fuelling as
opposed to before re-fuelling):
3 minutes and 2 traffic lights to leave the Autobahn and drive 1/2 mile
to the fuel station.
5 minutes to re-fuel.
3 minutes to walk to the cashier, pay, and back into the car.
3 minutes and 2 traffic lights to drive back.
1 minute lost time for deceleration and acceleration.

Rolf

Am 17.12.2021 um 22:46 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 9:44:11 AM UTC-8, Rolf Mantel wrote:

>> Only on cars with really large fuel tanks, the saved time of
>> driving fast is more than the lost time of the extra fuel stops.
>
> Do you still consider the Autobahn safe enough for those speeds with
> all of the eastern Europeans coming over the boarder and pretending
> to know how to drive?

(chauvinist mode on) The eastern Europeans know their place is on the
right lane. It's the Dutch caravaners who make fast driving impossible
by left-lane hogging (chauvinist mode off).

Giving an honest answer, I'm a reasonably slow driver when there's any
traffic. I was carefully picking my routes. On the Friday night, a
"local motorway" like A72 with 2 lanes per dircetion and few trucks was
OK for 80 mph except on the tunnels with speed limit 50 mph.

On the sunday morning, I was extremely surprised how empty the old
motorways A9 (Berlin- Munich) and A4 (Dresden - Kassel) were, both had
three lanes per direction and less traffic than the A72 on Friday night.

Coming into "Western Germany", my wife drove the other half of the trip
home on the A5, typically going 60 mph (and I would not have gone much
faster due to the high amount of traffic).

The motorways where you might wish to take "Eastern European driving"
into account are specifically A6 (Mannheim - Nuremberg - Prague) and A8
(Karlsruhe - Munich - Salzburg), and Eastern European Truckers are as
experienced driving as German truckers, mostly staying on the slow lane
at 50-60 mph.
Motorways with "dutch caravaners driving" are predominantly A61, A5
south of Frankfurt and A8.

Rolf

On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 7:55:16 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 17.12.2021 um 19:33 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
> > On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:44:11 PM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >>
> >> Recently, I had to drive to a funeral some 300 miles away, rushing there
> >> on the Friday afternoon and rushing home on the Sunday on the Autobahn
> >> (with my son playing in a concert for the 50th anniversaty of his music
> >> scholl in the late afternoon).
> >> Doing a constant 90 on the way there and going 100 to 115 on the empty
> >> roads on the way home, I had to re-fuel after 300 miles as opposed to
> >> the normal 500 miles per tank (gaining 20 minutes by going 115 tops
> >> instead of the usual 80 and losing 15 minutes at the additional fuelling
> >> stop - doing my usual 70 to 80 would have needed one fuel stop on the
> >> way out and none on the way back).
> >
> > It takes you 15 minutes to fill your tank?
> If I wish to pay normal prices, yes (grabbing numbers out of hot air;
> the 15 minutes are approximate as seen on ETA home after re-fuelling as
> opposed to before re-fuelling):
> 3 minutes and 2 traffic lights to leave the Autobahn and drive 1/2 mile
> to the fuel station.
> 5 minutes to re-fuel.
> 3 minutes to walk to the cashier, pay, and back into the car.
> 3 minutes and 2 traffic lights to drive back.
> 1 minute lost time for deceleration and acceleration.

I see, that makes sense. My gas-station-of-choice is a few miles off the highway, so it does add about ten minutes to my commute when I have the time. Otherwise there is a station right next to the offramp that is quite a bit more expensive but only delays me about 5 minutes total. I pay at the pump with plastic so I don't have the spend more time waiting in line at the register.

On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 5:13:07 AM UTC-8, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 17.12.2021 um 22:46 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> > On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 9:44:11 AM UTC-8, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>
> >> Only on cars with really large fuel tanks, the saved time of
> >> driving fast is more than the lost time of the extra fuel stops.
> >
> > Do you still consider the Autobahn safe enough for those speeds with
> > all of the eastern Europeans coming over the boarder and pretending
> > to know how to drive?
> (chauvinist mode on) The eastern Europeans know their place is on the
> right lane. It's the Dutch caravaners who make fast driving impossible
> by left-lane hogging (chauvinist mode off).
>
> Giving an honest answer, I'm a reasonably slow driver when there's any
> traffic. I was carefully picking my routes. On the Friday night, a
> "local motorway" like A72 with 2 lanes per dircetion and few trucks was
> OK for 80 mph except on the tunnels with speed limit 50 mph.
>
> On the sunday morning, I was extremely surprised how empty the old
> motorways A9 (Berlin- Munich) and A4 (Dresden - Kassel) were, both had
> three lanes per direction and less traffic than the A72 on Friday night.
>
> Coming into "Western Germany", my wife drove the other half of the trip
> home on the A5, typically going 60 mph (and I would not have gone much
> faster due to the high amount of traffic).
>
> The motorways where you might wish to take "Eastern European driving"
> into account are specifically A6 (Mannheim - Nuremberg - Prague) and A8
> (Karlsruhe - Munich - Salzburg), and Eastern European Truckers are as
> experienced driving as German truckers, mostly staying on the slow lane
> at 50-60 mph.
> Motorways with "dutch caravaners driving" are predominantly A61, A5
> south of Frankfurt and A8.

After I drove over the border from California into Arizona, the speed limit is 80 mph for all vehicles and there were trucks pulling three trailers doing that speed. That scared the hell out of me and I stayed in the right lane doing exactly 80. A triple semi is uncontrollable in a cross wind and yet they drive like that.

Am 20.12.2021 um 15:32 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
> On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 7:55:16 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>> Am 17.12.2021 um 19:33 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
>>> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:44:11 PM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Recently, I had to drive to a funeral some 300 miles away,
>>>> rushing there on the Friday afternoon and rushing home on the
>>>> Sunday on the Autobahn (with my son playing in a concert for
>>>> the 50th anniversaty of his music scholl in the late
>>>> afternoon). Doing a constant 90 on the way there and going 100
>>>> to 115 on the empty roads on the way home, I had to re-fuel
>>>> after 300 miles as opposed to the normal 500 miles per tank
>>>> (gaining 20 minutes by going 115 tops instead of the usual 80
>>>> and losing 15 minutes at the additional fuelling stop - doing
>>>> my usual 70 to 80 would have needed one fuel stop on the way
>>>> out and none on the way back).
>>>
>>> It takes you 15 minutes to fill your tank?
>> If I wish to pay normal prices, yes (grabbing numbers out of hot
>> air; the 15 minutes are approximate as seen on ETA home after
>> re-fuelling as opposed to before re-fuelling): 3 minutes and 2
>> traffic lights to leave the Autobahn and drive 1/2 mile to the fuel
>> station. 5 minutes to re-fuel. 3 minutes to walk to the cashier,
>> pay, and back into the car. 3 minutes and 2 traffic lights to drive
>> back. 1 minute lost time for deceleration and acceleration.
>
> I see, that makes sense. My gas-station-of-choice is a few miles off
> the highway, so it does add about ten minutes to my commute when I
> have the time. Otherwise there is a station right next to the offramp
> that is quite a bit more expensive but only delays me about 5 minutes
> total. I pay at the pump with plastic so I don't have the spend more
> time waiting in line at the register.

I also think that there's a massive difference between a "regular fuel
stop on your commute" and a "one-off fuel stop on a longer journey".

On the commute you know everything good enough to optimize; on a long
journey it's "out-of-fuel warning! Co-pilot (in this case my son),
please google for reasonably cheap fuel stations near the highway; yes,
we'll manage to reach XXX but not much more".

Rolf

On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 2:13:07 PM UTC+1, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 17.12.2021 um 22:46 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> > On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 9:44:11 AM UTC-8, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>
> >> Only on cars with really large fuel tanks, the saved time of
> >> driving fast is more than the lost time of the extra fuel stops.
> >
> > Do you still consider the Autobahn safe enough for those speeds with
> > all of the eastern Europeans coming over the boarder and pretending
> > to know how to drive?
> (chauvinist mode on) The eastern Europeans know their place is on the
> right lane. It's the Dutch caravaners who make fast driving impossible
> by left-lane hogging (chauvinist mode off).
>
> Giving an honest answer, I'm a reasonably slow driver when there's any
> traffic. I was carefully picking my routes. On the Friday night, a
> "local motorway" like A72 with 2 lanes per dircetion and few trucks was
> OK for 80 mph except on the tunnels with speed limit 50 mph.
>
> On the sunday morning, I was extremely surprised how empty the old
> motorways A9 (Berlin- Munich) and A4 (Dresden - Kassel) were, both had
> three lanes per direction and less traffic than the A72 on Friday night.
>
> Coming into "Western Germany", my wife drove the other half of the trip
> home on the A5, typically going 60 mph (and I would not have gone much
> faster due to the high amount of traffic).
>
> The motorways where you might wish to take "Eastern European driving"
> into account are specifically A6 (Mannheim - Nuremberg - Prague) and A8
> (Karlsruhe - Munich - Salzburg), and Eastern European Truckers are as
> experienced driving as German truckers, mostly staying on the slow lane
> at 50-60 mph.
> Motorways with "dutch caravaners driving" are predominantly A61, A5
> south of Frankfurt and A8.
>
> Rolf

I send all the Dutch caravaners to Germany as punishment for clogging up my city, Venlo, every weekend by the Germans. :-)

Lou, not a caravaner.

On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 9:10:44 AM UTC-8, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 20.12.2021 um 15:32 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
> > On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 7:55:16 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >> Am 17.12.2021 um 19:33 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
> >>> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:44:11 PM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Recently, I had to drive to a funeral some 300 miles away,
> >>>> rushing there on the Friday afternoon and rushing home on the
> >>>> Sunday on the Autobahn (with my son playing in a concert for
> >>>> the 50th anniversaty of his music scholl in the late
> >>>> afternoon). Doing a constant 90 on the way there and going 100
> >>>> to 115 on the empty roads on the way home, I had to re-fuel
> >>>> after 300 miles as opposed to the normal 500 miles per tank
> >>>> (gaining 20 minutes by going 115 tops instead of the usual 80
> >>>> and losing 15 minutes at the additional fuelling stop - doing
> >>>> my usual 70 to 80 would have needed one fuel stop on the way
> >>>> out and none on the way back).
> >>>
> >>> It takes you 15 minutes to fill your tank?
> >> If I wish to pay normal prices, yes (grabbing numbers out of hot
> >> air; the 15 minutes are approximate as seen on ETA home after
> >> re-fuelling as opposed to before re-fuelling): 3 minutes and 2
> >> traffic lights to leave the Autobahn and drive 1/2 mile to the fuel
> >> station. 5 minutes to re-fuel. 3 minutes to walk to the cashier,
> >> pay, and back into the car. 3 minutes and 2 traffic lights to drive
> >> back. 1 minute lost time for deceleration and acceleration.
> >
> > I see, that makes sense. My gas-station-of-choice is a few miles off
> > the highway, so it does add about ten minutes to my commute when I
> > have the time. Otherwise there is a station right next to the offramp
> > that is quite a bit more expensive but only delays me about 5 minutes
> > total. I pay at the pump with plastic so I don't have the spend more
> > time waiting in line at the register.
> I also think that there's a massive difference between a "regular fuel
> stop on your commute" and a "one-off fuel stop on a longer journey".
>
> On the commute you know everything good enough to optimize; on a long
> journey it's "out-of-fuel warning! Co-pilot (in this case my son),
> please google for reasonably cheap fuel stations near the highway; yes,
> we'll manage to reach XXX but not much more".

When I drove to Phoenix a couple of years ago, I started running low on gas somewhere around LA and I had to drive several miles to find a gas station in a little convenience store run by a Russian When I took a cruise ship in 2019, the taxi that took us from the airport to the dock was driven by a Russian. A small discussion with him gave me the idea that LA is being overrun with Russians.

On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 9:36:26 AM UTC-8, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 2:13:07 PM UTC+1, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > Am 17.12.2021 um 22:46 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> > > On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 9:44:11 AM UTC-8, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >
> > >> Only on cars with really large fuel tanks, the saved time of
> > >> driving fast is more than the lost time of the extra fuel stops.
> > >
> > > Do you still consider the Autobahn safe enough for those speeds with
> > > all of the eastern Europeans coming over the boarder and pretending
> > > to know how to drive?
> > (chauvinist mode on) The eastern Europeans know their place is on the
> > right lane. It's the Dutch caravaners who make fast driving impossible
> > by left-lane hogging (chauvinist mode off).
> >
> > Giving an honest answer, I'm a reasonably slow driver when there's any
> > traffic. I was carefully picking my routes. On the Friday night, a
> > "local motorway" like A72 with 2 lanes per dircetion and few trucks was
> > OK for 80 mph except on the tunnels with speed limit 50 mph.
> >
> > On the sunday morning, I was extremely surprised how empty the old
> > motorways A9 (Berlin- Munich) and A4 (Dresden - Kassel) were, both had
> > three lanes per direction and less traffic than the A72 on Friday night.
> >
> > Coming into "Western Germany", my wife drove the other half of the trip
> > home on the A5, typically going 60 mph (and I would not have gone much
> > faster due to the high amount of traffic).
> >
> > The motorways where you might wish to take "Eastern European driving"
> > into account are specifically A6 (Mannheim - Nuremberg - Prague) and A8
> > (Karlsruhe - Munich - Salzburg), and Eastern European Truckers are as
> > experienced driving as German truckers, mostly staying on the slow lane
> > at 50-60 mph.
> > Motorways with "dutch caravaners driving" are predominantly A61, A5
> > south of Frankfurt and A8.
> >
> > Rolf
> I send all the Dutch caravaners to Germany as punishment for clogging up my city, Venlo, every weekend by the Germans. :-)
>
> Lou, not a caravaner.
++1