I have been testing my riding different bikes with different weights, I have had a bike bike size Extra Large that weighed as little as 16 lbs. And on the road the titanium bikes are about 22 lbs. I could put a steel bike together that weighed close to that.

I honestly cannot tell the difference even on very hard climbs with the difference in weight of that much. You have to remember that you are not only carrying the weight of the bike but the weight of your body, the water bottles and your flat kit.

Since I weigh 185 lbs most of the time the difference between a 16 lb bike and a 22 lb bike is only 2 1/2%. This is enough to make a difference for professional riders on long climbs, but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans on the flats or even in a sprint for a normal sports rider.

If you're willing to pay $10,000 for a top end bike with top end components on it, all's well and good for you. But it won't make any difference in your riding and you should know that. Carbon Fiber supposedly is a great frameset material but I have a very different view, especially since I built a 16.5 lb aluminum bike with a very heavy carbon fiber rear triangle. There is no motion in this at all and it is built heavier than the aluminum front triangle. I had a Colnago constructed in this manner and it was so flexible that it rubbed all of the paint off around the B-stay. The Douglas doesn't move at all and is still way lighter than the Colnago was. But I'm changing that around. I'm installing heavier than the wheelset I have on it now with 55 mm deep tubeless tires. I will install a Campy Centaur Power Torque 39/52 crankset. That will kick the weight up to 18 lbs but it will look all hell and gone more modern. So it should sell easier.

People looking for light bikes think that carbon fiber is the only route. Better to look fast than to advertise light weight.

What do you think?

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 6:27:23 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> I have been testing my riding different bikes with different weights, I have had a bike bike size Extra Large that weighed as little as 16 lbs. And on the road the titanium bikes are about 22 lbs. I could put a steel bike together that weighed close to that.
>
> I honestly cannot tell the difference even on very hard climbs with the difference in weight of that much. You have to remember that you are not only carrying the weight of the bike but the weight of your body, the water bottles and your flat kit.
>
> Since I weigh 185 lbs most of the time the difference between a 16 lb bike and a 22 lb bike is only 2 1/2%. This is enough to make a difference for professional riders on long climbs, but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans on the flats or even in a sprint for a normal sports rider.
>
> If you're willing to pay $10,000 for a top end bike with top end components on it, all's well and good for you. But it won't make any difference in your riding and you should know that. Carbon Fiber supposedly is a great frameset material but I have a very different view, especially since I built a 16.5 lb aluminum bike with a very heavy carbon fiber rear triangle. There is no motion in this at all and it is built heavier than the aluminum front triangle. I had a Colnago constructed in this manner and it was so flexible that it rubbed all of the paint off around the B-stay. The Douglas doesn't move at all and is still way lighter than the Colnago was. But I'm changing that around. I'm installing heavier than the wheelset I have on it now with 55 mm deep tubeless tires. I will install a Campy Centaur Power Torque 39/52 crankset. That will kick the weight up to 18 lbs but it will look all hell and gone more modern. So it should sell easier.
>
> People looking for light bikes think that carbon fiber is the only route. Better to look fast than to advertise light weight.
>
> What do you think?

I have a simple motto ' not heavier than needed' for the purpose of that specific bike. This ends all discussion.

Lou

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 9:38:27 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 6:27:23 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > I have been testing my riding different bikes with different weights, I have had a bike bike size Extra Large that weighed as little as 16 lbs. And on the road the titanium bikes are about 22 lbs. I could put a steel bike together that weighed close to that.
> >
> > I honestly cannot tell the difference even on very hard climbs with the difference in weight of that much. You have to remember that you are not only carrying the weight of the bike but the weight of your body, the water bottles and your flat kit.
> >
> > Since I weigh 185 lbs most of the time the difference between a 16 lb bike and a 22 lb bike is only 2 1/2%. This is enough to make a difference for professional riders on long climbs, but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans on the flats or even in a sprint for a normal sports rider.
> >
> > If you're willing to pay $10,000 for a top end bike with top end components on it, all's well and good for you. But it won't make any difference in your riding and you should know that. Carbon Fiber supposedly is a great frameset material but I have a very different view, especially since I built a 16.5 lb aluminum bike with a very heavy carbon fiber rear triangle. There is no motion in this at all and it is built heavier than the aluminum front triangle. I had a Colnago constructed in this manner and it was so flexible that it rubbed all of the paint off around the B-stay. The Douglas doesn't move at all and is still way lighter than the Colnago was. But I'm changing that around. I'm installing heavier than the wheelset I have on it now with 55 mm deep tubeless tires. I will install a Campy Centaur Power Torque 39/52 crankset. That will kick the weight up to 18 lbs but it will look all hell and gone more modern. So it should sell easier.
> >
> > People looking for light bikes think that carbon fiber is the only route. Better to look fast than to advertise light weight.
> >
> > What do you think?
> I have a simple motto ' not heavier than needed' for the purpose of that specific bike. This ends all discussion.

But what is "heavier than needed" if some guy on a steel Moser Atlanta leaves you in the dust with your superlight Canyon?

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 7:11:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 9:38:27 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 6:27:23 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > I have been testing my riding different bikes with different weights, I have had a bike bike size Extra Large that weighed as little as 16 lbs. And on the road the titanium bikes are about 22 lbs. I could put a steel bike together that weighed close to that.
> > >
> > > I honestly cannot tell the difference even on very hard climbs with the difference in weight of that much. You have to remember that you are not only carrying the weight of the bike but the weight of your body, the water bottles and your flat kit.
> > >
> > > Since I weigh 185 lbs most of the time the difference between a 16 lb bike and a 22 lb bike is only 2 1/2%. This is enough to make a difference for professional riders on long climbs, but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans on the flats or even in a sprint for a normal sports rider.
> > >
> > > If you're willing to pay $10,000 for a top end bike with top end components on it, all's well and good for you. But it won't make any difference in your riding and you should know that. Carbon Fiber supposedly is a great frameset material but I have a very different view, especially since I built a 16.5 lb aluminum bike with a very heavy carbon fiber rear triangle. There is no motion in this at all and it is built heavier than the aluminum front triangle. I had a Colnago constructed in this manner and it was so flexible that it rubbed all of the paint off around the B-stay. The Douglas doesn't move at all and is still way lighter than the Colnago was. But I'm changing that around. I'm installing heavier than the wheelset I have on it now with 55 mm deep tubeless tires. I will install a Campy Centaur Power Torque 39/52 crankset. That will kick the weight up to 18 lbs but it will look all hell and gone more modern. So it should sell easier.
> > >
> > > People looking for light bikes think that carbon fiber is the only route. Better to look fast than to advertise light weight.
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> > I have a simple motto ' not heavier than needed' for the purpose of that specific bike. This ends all discussion.
> But what is "heavier than needed" if some guy on a steel Moser Atlanta leaves you in the dust with your superlight Canyon?

That doesn’t bother me.

Lou

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 10:20:46 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 7:11:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 9:38:27 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 6:27:23 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > I have been testing my riding different bikes with different weights, I have had a bike bike size Extra Large that weighed as little as 16 lbs.. And on the road the titanium bikes are about 22 lbs. I could put a steel bike together that weighed close to that.
> > > >
> > > > I honestly cannot tell the difference even on very hard climbs with the difference in weight of that much. You have to remember that you are not only carrying the weight of the bike but the weight of your body, the water bottles and your flat kit.
> > > >
> > > > Since I weigh 185 lbs most of the time the difference between a 16 lb bike and a 22 lb bike is only 2 1/2%. This is enough to make a difference for professional riders on long climbs, but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans on the flats or even in a sprint for a normal sports rider.
> > > >
> > > > If you're willing to pay $10,000 for a top end bike with top end components on it, all's well and good for you. But it won't make any difference in your riding and you should know that. Carbon Fiber supposedly is a great frameset material but I have a very different view, especially since I built a 16.5 lb aluminum bike with a very heavy carbon fiber rear triangle. There is no motion in this at all and it is built heavier than the aluminum front triangle. I had a Colnago constructed in this manner and it was so flexible that it rubbed all of the paint off around the B-stay. The Douglas doesn't move at all and is still way lighter than the Colnago was. But I'm changing that around. I'm installing heavier than the wheelset I have on it now with 55 mm deep tubeless tires. I will install a Campy Centaur Power Torque 39/52 crankset. That will kick the weight up to 18 lbs but it will look all hell and gone more modern. So it should sell easier.
> > > >
> > > > People looking for light bikes think that carbon fiber is the only route. Better to look fast than to advertise light weight.
> > > >
> > > > What do you think?
> > > I have a simple motto ' not heavier than needed' for the purpose of that specific bike. This ends all discussion.
> > But what is "heavier than needed" if some guy on a steel Moser Atlanta leaves you in the dust with your superlight Canyon?
> That doesn’t bother me.

Nor should it. I just wanted to point out that light weight is relative.

On 1/2/2022 1:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 9:38:27 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>
>> I have a simple motto ' not heavier than needed' for the purpose of that specific bike. This ends all discussion.
>
> But what is "heavier than needed" if some guy on a steel Moser Atlanta leaves you in the dust with your superlight Canyon?

Some people might say "heavier than needed" is any bike that doesn't
self-destruct at the finish line.

Not that I'm in that camp, mind you.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:09:24 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/2/2022 1:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 9:38:27 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>
> >> I have a simple motto ' not heavier than needed' for the purpose of that specific bike. This ends all discussion.
> >
> > But what is "heavier than needed" if some guy on a steel Moser Atlanta leaves you in the dust with your superlight Canyon?
> Some people might say "heavier than needed" is any bike that doesn't
> self-destruct at the finish line.
>
> Not that I'm in that camp, mind you.

Well, that used to be the cliché - "the ideal bike falls to pieces after it crosses the finish line." But I can't say that I ever saw such a thing. And the steel bikes used by teams would be used for the entire season with ONE bike per rider. and a couple of spares for the entire team. I was told by one team mechanic for CCC that they had many spares and that they tried to hire riders that were all more or less the same size so that would minimize the numbers of spares they needed.