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tech / alt.engineering.electrical / Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

SubjectAuthor
* OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?gareth evans
+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Scott
|+- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?gareth evans
|+- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?newshound
|+- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
|`- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Martin Brown
+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?nightjar
|+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?GB
||+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Spike
|||+- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?GB
|||`- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?alan_m
||`* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?nightjar
|| `* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?GB
||  +* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Scott
||  |+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?GB
||  ||+- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?gfretwell
||  ||+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Steve Walker
||  |||+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Tim Streater
||  ||||`- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?The Natural Philosopher
||  |||+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?tony sayer
||  ||||`- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?gfretwell
||  |||+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?GB
||  ||||+- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?newshound
||  ||||+- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?gfretwell
||  ||||+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Rod Speed
||  |||||+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Pancho
||  ||||||`* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Rod Speed
||  |||||| `* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Pancho
||  ||||||  +* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?The Natural Philosopher
||  ||||||  |`- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Pancho
||  ||||||  `- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Rod Speed
||  |||||`* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?alan_m
||  ||||| `- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Rod Speed
||  ||||`* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?The Natural Philosopher
||  |||| `- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?alan_m
||  |||+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Pancho
||  ||||+- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?gfretwell
||  ||||+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Rod Speed
||  |||||`* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?nightjar
||  ||||| `- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Rod Speed
||  ||||+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?The Natural Philosopher
||  |||||`* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?72y33
||  ||||| +* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?The Natural Philosopher
||  ||||| |`* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?72y33
||  ||||| | +* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Fredxx
||  ||||| | |`- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Rod Speed
||  ||||| | `* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?The Natural Philosopher
||  ||||| |  `- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?72y33
||  ||||| `* Australian subs (was: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense thenewshound
||  |||||  `- Re: Australian subs (was: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?)Rod Speed
||  ||||`* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Steve Walker
||  |||| +* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Pancho
||  |||| |+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Steve Walker
||  |||| ||`* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Pancho
||  |||| || `- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Rod Speed
||  |||| |+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?The Natural Philosopher
||  |||| ||+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Pancho
||  |||| |||`* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?The Natural Philosopher
||  |||| ||| `- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?72y33
||  |||| ||`* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?newshound
||  |||| || `* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Pancho
||  |||| ||  +- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?newshound
||  |||| ||  `* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?The Natural Philosopher
||  |||| ||   `* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Pancho
||  |||| ||    +* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Rod Speed
||  |||| ||    |`* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Pancho
||  |||| ||    | +- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?The Natural Philosopher
||  |||| ||    | `* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Rod Speed
||  |||| ||    |  `* Pifco Xmas tree lightsgareth evans
||  |||| ||    |   +* Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsgareth evans
||  |||| ||    |   |+* Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsDavid Wade
||  |||| ||    |   ||`* Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsIan Jackson
||  |||| ||    |   || +- Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsgareth evans
||  |||| ||    |   || `- Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsgfretwell
||  |||| ||    |   |+* Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsnewshound
||  |||| ||    |   ||`- Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
||  |||| ||    |   |`* Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
||  |||| ||    |   | +* Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsMartin Brown
||  |||| ||    |   | |`* Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsTim+
||  |||| ||    |   | | +- Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsThe Natural Philosopher
||  |||| ||    |   | | `- Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsMike Humphrey
||  |||| ||    |   | `- Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsSH
||  |||| ||    |   +- Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsMartin Brown
||  |||| ||    |   `* Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
||  |||| ||    |    `- Re: Pifco Xmas tree lightsIan Jackson
||  |||| ||    `- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?The Natural Philosopher
||  |||| |`- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Rod Speed
||  |||| `- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?nightjar
||  |||`- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Rod Speed
||  ||`- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Rod Speed
||  |`- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?alan_m
||  +- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Rod Speed
||  `- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?nightjar
|+* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?newshound
||+- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?gfretwell
||`- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?The Natural Philosopher
|`* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
| `- Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?newshound
`* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Dimitris Tzortzakakis
 `* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?newshound
  `* Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?Tim Streater

Pages:12345
OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

<shvi1l$qg9$1@dont-email.me>

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From: headston...@yahoo.com (gareth evans)
Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical,uk.d-i-y
Subject: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:49:28 +0100
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 by: gareth evans - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 13:49 UTC

After following the Vigil TV series (with all its
reported errors) and also the prog on HMS Trenchard,
when a Brit U-boat is powered by nuclear fuels, how
do they condense the steam?

With sea water? If so, there must be difficulties
in sealing the intakes and outfalls from deep sea
pressures.

Perhaps the steam is heated to 200C and only cools to
100C through the turbines before recirculating
so no condensing is
required. This, of course, will be wasteful
of some thermodynamic energy, but there's so much
in reserve in the nuclear fual that perhaps it does not
matter.

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

<jtl6kg9vfqea3ck5sohhm79f9kll4l0isd@4ax.com>

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From: newsgro...@gefion.myzen.co.uk (Scott)
Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2021 15:42:59 +0100
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 by: Scott - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:42 UTC

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:49:28 +0100, gareth evans
<headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:

>After following the Vigil TV series (with all its
>reported errors)

As an aside would you recommend Vigil? A friend of my said the
submarine looked like a free gift from a cornflakes packet.

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
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 by: nightjar - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:54 UTC

On 16/09/2021 14:49, gareth evans wrote:
> After following the Vigil TV series (with all its
> reported errors) and also the prog on HMS Trenchard,
> when a Brit U-boat is powered by nuclear fuels, how
> do they condense the steam?

Sea water heat exchanger

> With sea water? If so, there must be difficulties
> in sealing the intakes and outfalls from deep sea
> pressures.

The main engineering problem seems to be keeping it from making
detectable noise while the boat is running in quiet mode.

>
> Perhaps the steam is heated to 200C and only cools to
> 100C through the turbines before recirculating
> so no condensing is
> required. This, of course, will be wasteful
> of some thermodynamic energy, but there's so much
> in reserve in the nuclear fual that perhaps it does not
> matter.
>

--
Colin Bignell

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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From: headston...@yahoo.com (gareth evans)
Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2021 16:04:37 +0100
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 by: gareth evans - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 15:04 UTC

On 16/09/2021 15:42, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:49:28 +0100, gareth evans
> <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> After following the Vigil TV series (with all its
>> reported errors)
>
> As an aside would you recommend Vigil? A friend of my said the
> submarine looked like a free gift from a cornflakes packet.
>

very good thrilling plot (unlike Star Wars which I
got less than half way through before giving up on it)

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

<shvp1j$bvc$1@dont-email.me>

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From: NOTsome...@microsoft.com (GB)
Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
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 by: GB - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 15:49 UTC

On 16/09/2021 15:54, nightjar wrote:

> The main engineering problem seems to be keeping it from making
> detectable noise while the boat is running in quiet mode.

That doesn't seem to be an issue, judging by the Vigil films. There's a
tannoy system that must be audible miles away, and the crew seem to
shout at each other the whole time. What difference would a little
gurgling from the reactor make?

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

<iqh7nbF7srhU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: Aero.Sp...@mail.invalid (Spike)
Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
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 by: Spike - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 15:55 UTC

On 16/09/2021 15:49, GB wrote:
> On 16/09/2021 15:54, nightjar wrote:

>> The main engineering problem seems to be keeping it from making
>> detectable noise while the boat is running in quiet mode.

> That doesn't seem to be an issue, judging by the Vigil films. There's a
> tannoy system that must be audible miles away, and the crew seem to
> shout at each other the whole time. What difference would a little
> gurgling from the reactor make?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_running_(submarine)

--
Spike

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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 by: nightjar - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 16:46 UTC

On 16/09/2021 16:49, GB wrote:
> On 16/09/2021 15:54, nightjar wrote:
>
>> The main engineering problem seems to be keeping it from making
>> detectable noise while the boat is running in quiet mode.
>
> That doesn't seem to be an issue, judging by the Vigil films. There's a
> tannoy system that must be audible miles away, and the crew seem to
> shout at each other the whole time. What difference would a little
> gurgling from the reactor make?
>
>
I'm talking about real life :-)

However, there is a high power setting fro the coolant pumps, which is
relatively noisy. That is used when maximum power is more important than
stealth. It is also used when leaving port, as it prevents any spy or
spy ship from listening for the boat's silent running signature.

--
Colin Bignell

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

<shvtkt$crd$1@dont-email.me>

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From: NOTsome...@microsoft.com (GB)
Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2021 18:07:42 +0100
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 by: GB - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 17:07 UTC

On 16/09/2021 16:55, Spike wrote:
> On 16/09/2021 15:49, GB wrote:
>> On 16/09/2021 15:54, nightjar wrote:
>
>>> The main engineering problem seems to be keeping it from making
>>> detectable noise while the boat is running in quiet mode.
>
>> That doesn't seem to be an issue, judging by the Vigil films. There's a
>> tannoy system that must be audible miles away, and the crew seem to
>> shout at each other the whole time. What difference would a little
>> gurgling from the reactor make?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_running_(submarine)
>
>

Tell the authors, not me!

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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From: NOTsome...@microsoft.com (GB)
Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2021 18:10:23 +0100
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 by: GB - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 17:10 UTC

On 16/09/2021 17:46, nightjar wrote:
> On 16/09/2021 16:49, GB wrote:
>> On 16/09/2021 15:54, nightjar wrote:
>>
>>> The main engineering problem seems to be keeping it from making
>>> detectable noise while the boat is running in quiet mode.
>>
>> That doesn't seem to be an issue, judging by the Vigil films. There's
>> a tannoy system that must be audible miles away, and the crew seem to
>> shout at each other the whole time. What difference would a little
>> gurgling from the reactor make?
>>
>>
> I'm talking about real life :-)

:)

> However, there is a high power setting fro the coolant pumps, which is
> relatively noisy. That is used when maximum power is more important than
> stealth. It is also used when leaving port, as it prevents any spy or
> spy ship from listening for the boat's silent running signature.

That's interesting. I wonder what happens if they forget to do that
once? Do they scrap the fleet and buy a new one? If so, it would be
quite an expensive mistake.

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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From: newsgro...@gefion.myzen.co.uk (Scott)
Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2021 18:17:17 +0100
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 by: Scott - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 17:17 UTC

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 18:10:23 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.com>
wrote:

>On 16/09/2021 17:46, nightjar wrote:
>> On 16/09/2021 16:49, GB wrote:
>>> On 16/09/2021 15:54, nightjar wrote:
>>>
>>>> The main engineering problem seems to be keeping it from making
>>>> detectable noise while the boat is running in quiet mode.
>>>
>>> That doesn't seem to be an issue, judging by the Vigil films. There's
>>> a tannoy system that must be audible miles away, and the crew seem to
>>> shout at each other the whole time. What difference would a little
>>> gurgling from the reactor make?
>>>
>>>
>> I'm talking about real life :-)
>
>:)
>
>
>> However, there is a high power setting fro the coolant pumps, which is
>> relatively noisy. That is used when maximum power is more important than
>> stealth. It is also used when leaving port, as it prevents any spy or
>> spy ship from listening for the boat's silent running signature.
>
>That's interesting. I wonder what happens if they forget to do that
>once? Do they scrap the fleet and buy a new one? If so, it would be
>quite an expensive mistake.
>
Could they not just alter one of the components, preferably the
noisiest one?

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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From: NOTsome...@microsoft.com (GB)
Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
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 by: GB - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 17:24 UTC

On 16/09/2021 18:17, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 18:10:23 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 16/09/2021 17:46, nightjar wrote:
>>> On 16/09/2021 16:49, GB wrote:
>>>> On 16/09/2021 15:54, nightjar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The main engineering problem seems to be keeping it from making
>>>>> detectable noise while the boat is running in quiet mode.
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't seem to be an issue, judging by the Vigil films. There's
>>>> a tannoy system that must be audible miles away, and the crew seem to
>>>> shout at each other the whole time. What difference would a little
>>>> gurgling from the reactor make?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I'm talking about real life :-)
>>
>> :)
>>
>>
>>> However, there is a high power setting fro the coolant pumps, which is
>>> relatively noisy. That is used when maximum power is more important than
>>> stealth. It is also used when leaving port, as it prevents any spy or
>>> spy ship from listening for the boat's silent running signature.
>>
>> That's interesting. I wonder what happens if they forget to do that
>> once? Do they scrap the fleet and buy a new one? If so, it would be
>> quite an expensive mistake.
>>
> Could they not just alter one of the components, preferably the
> noisiest one?
>

Nah! If you're going to do the job, do it properly.

If I had the choice between several dozen new hospitals and a fleet of
new nuclear submarines, I'd want to be equipped to start a nuclear war
we couldn't survive. Wouldn't you?

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
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 by: gfretw...@aol.com - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 17:51 UTC

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 18:24:25 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.com>
wrote:

>On 16/09/2021 18:17, Scott wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 18:10:23 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/09/2021 17:46, nightjar wrote:
>>>> On 16/09/2021 16:49, GB wrote:
>>>>> On 16/09/2021 15:54, nightjar wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The main engineering problem seems to be keeping it from making
>>>>>> detectable noise while the boat is running in quiet mode.
>>>>>
>>>>> That doesn't seem to be an issue, judging by the Vigil films. There's
>>>>> a tannoy system that must be audible miles away, and the crew seem to
>>>>> shout at each other the whole time. What difference would a little
>>>>> gurgling from the reactor make?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I'm talking about real life :-)
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>>
>>>> However, there is a high power setting fro the coolant pumps, which is
>>>> relatively noisy. That is used when maximum power is more important than
>>>> stealth. It is also used when leaving port, as it prevents any spy or
>>>> spy ship from listening for the boat's silent running signature.
>>>
>>> That's interesting. I wonder what happens if they forget to do that
>>> once? Do they scrap the fleet and buy a new one? If so, it would be
>>> quite an expensive mistake.
>>>
>> Could they not just alter one of the components, preferably the
>> noisiest one?
>>
>
>
>Nah! If you're going to do the job, do it properly.
>
>If I had the choice between several dozen new hospitals and a fleet of
>new nuclear submarines, I'd want to be equipped to start a nuclear war
>we couldn't survive. Wouldn't you?

The more nukes we have deployed the less chance there is that anyone
will survive a nuclear war.
We have the ability right now to destroy civilization as we know it.

The old saying is
"If the next war involved a full nuclear exchange, the war after that
will be fought with rocks and sticks".

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

<si0681$bab$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ste...@walker-family.me.uk (Steve Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
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 by: Steve Walker - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 19:34 UTC

On 16/09/2021 18:24, GB wrote:
> On 16/09/2021 18:17, Scott wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 18:10:23 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/09/2021 17:46, nightjar wrote:
>>>> On 16/09/2021 16:49, GB wrote:
>>>>> On 16/09/2021 15:54, nightjar wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The main engineering problem seems to be keeping it from making
>>>>>> detectable noise while the boat is running in quiet mode.
>>>>>
>>>>> That doesn't seem to be an issue, judging by the Vigil films. There's
>>>>> a tannoy system that must be audible miles away, and the crew seem to
>>>>> shout at each other the whole time. What difference would a little
>>>>> gurgling from the reactor make?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I'm talking about real life :-)
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>>
>>>> However, there is a high power setting fro the coolant pumps, which is
>>>> relatively noisy. That is used when maximum power is more important
>>>> than
>>>> stealth. It is also used when leaving port, as it prevents any spy or
>>>> spy ship from listening for the boat's silent running signature.
>>>
>>> That's interesting. I wonder what happens if they forget to do that
>>> once? Do they scrap the fleet and buy a new one? If so, it would be
>>> quite an expensive mistake.
>>>
>> Could they not just alter one of the components, preferably the
>> noisiest one?
>>
>
>
> Nah! If you're going to do the job, do it properly.
>
> If I had the choice between several dozen new hospitals and a fleet of
> new nuclear submarines, I'd want to be equipped to start a nuclear war
> we couldn't survive. Wouldn't you?

The whole point is that having nuclear armed submarines at sea means
that no-one can attack without potentially suffering a retaliatory
attack. Hospitals are of no use if someone decides to obliterate your
country, knowing that there will be no response.

While it would be better if no countries had nuclear weapons, while some
potential enemies do, it makes sense to have your own response of last
resort.

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
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 by: newshound - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 19:54 UTC

On 16/09/2021 15:42, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:49:28 +0100, gareth evans
> <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> After following the Vigil TV series (with all its
>> reported errors)
>
> As an aside would you recommend Vigil? A friend of my said the
> submarine looked like a free gift from a cornflakes packet.
>
Some of the CGI is very good, other stuff is pretty awful.

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
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 by: newshound - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 20:11 UTC

On 16/09/2021 15:54, nightjar wrote:
> On 16/09/2021 14:49, gareth evans wrote:
>> After following the Vigil TV series (with all its
>> reported errors) and also the prog on HMS Trenchard,
>> when a Brit U-boat is powered by nuclear fuels, how
>> do they condense the steam?
>
> Sea water heat exchanger

I'm guessing these will be conceptually similar to those used by
conventional power plant, which has an array of tubes about 3 inches in
diameter (with similar spacing) through which the seawater passes. In
the old days these would have been a copper alloy (good for
anti-fouling), now I expect they will be titanium for better corrosion
resistance.

>
>> With sea water? If so, there must be difficulties
>> in sealing the intakes and outfalls from deep sea
>> pressures.

1000 feet is about 30 bar / 450 psi, a relatively modest figure for
unfired pressure vessels. Obviously, the tube-plates have to be properly
designed.

>
> The main engineering problem seems to be keeping it from making
> detectable noise while the boat is running in quiet mode.
>
>>
>> Perhaps the steam is heated to 200C and only cools to
>> 100C through the turbines before recirculating
>> so no condensing is
>> required. This, of course, will be wasteful
>> of some thermodynamic energy, but there's so much
>> in reserve in the nuclear fual that perhaps it does not
>> matter.
>>
>
>
The steam temperature in a commercial PWR is a bit over 300 deg C and I
expect the submarine figure is comparable. They will probably be aiming
for a condenser temperature around 30 deg C, giving a pretty good vacuum
(about 30 torr). A surprising proportion of the energy in a steam
turbine is delivered by the Low Pressure rotor(s).

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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From: timstrea...@greenbee.net (Tim Streater)
Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
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 by: Tim Streater - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 20:46 UTC

On 16 Sep 2021 at 20:34:25 BST, Steve Walker <steve@walker-family.me.uk>
wrote:

> On 16/09/2021 18:24, GB wrote:
>> On 16/09/2021 18:17, Scott wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 18:10:23 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 16/09/2021 17:46, nightjar wrote:
>>>>> On 16/09/2021 16:49, GB wrote:
>>>>>> On 16/09/2021 15:54, nightjar wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The main engineering problem seems to be keeping it from making
>>>>>>> detectable noise while the boat is running in quiet mode.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That doesn't seem to be an issue, judging by the Vigil films. There's
>>>>>> a tannoy system that must be audible miles away, and the crew seem to
>>>>>> shout at each other the whole time. What difference would a little
>>>>>> gurgling from the reactor make?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'm talking about real life :-)
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> However, there is a high power setting fro the coolant pumps, which is
>>>>> relatively noisy. That is used when maximum power is more important
>>>>> than
>>>>> stealth. It is also used when leaving port, as it prevents any spy or
>>>>> spy ship from listening for the boat's silent running signature.
>>>>
>>>> That's interesting. I wonder what happens if they forget to do that
>>>> once? Do they scrap the fleet and buy a new one? If so, it would be
>>>> quite an expensive mistake.
>>>>
>>> Could they not just alter one of the components, preferably the
>>> noisiest one?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Nah! If you're going to do the job, do it properly.
>>
>> If I had the choice between several dozen new hospitals and a fleet of
>> new nuclear submarines, I'd want to be equipped to start a nuclear war
>> we couldn't survive. Wouldn't you?
>
> The whole point is that having nuclear armed submarines at sea means
> that no-one can attack without potentially suffering a retaliatory
> attack. Hospitals are of no use if someone decides to obliterate your
> country, knowing that there will be no response.
>
> While it would be better if no countries had nuclear weapons, while some
> potential enemies do, it makes sense to have your own response of last
> resort.

Yes, I think GB is suffering from the "why have nuclear subs with missiles
when we aren't going to use them?" syndrome. He overlooks that they have been
in use, 24x7, for the last 50 years or whatever it is.
--
There's no obfuscated Perl contest because it's pointless.

- Jeff Polk

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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 by: gfretw...@aol.com - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 20:48 UTC

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 21:11:38 +0100, newshound
<newshound@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:

>On 16/09/2021 15:54, nightjar wrote:
>> On 16/09/2021 14:49, gareth evans wrote:
>>> After following the Vigil TV series (with all its
>>> reported errors) and also the prog on HMS Trenchard,
>>> when a Brit U-boat is powered by nuclear fuels, how
>>> do they condense the steam?
>>
>> Sea water heat exchanger
>
>I'm guessing these will be conceptually similar to those used by
>conventional power plant, which has an array of tubes about 3 inches in
>diameter (with similar spacing) through which the seawater passes. In
>the old days these would have been a copper alloy (good for
>anti-fouling), now I expect they will be titanium for better corrosion
>resistance.
I wonder how they deal with the thermal signature of that much heat
being released back into the sea?

It almost makes me wonder if they are not making more of an effort to
scavenge that energy, not because they need it but just because they
don't want to leave a heat trail.

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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From: ton...@bancom.co.uk (tony sayer)
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Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
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 by: tony sayer - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 20:49 UTC

>>
>> Nah! If you're going to do the job, do it properly.
>>
>> If I had the choice between several dozen new hospitals and a fleet of
>> new nuclear submarines, I'd want to be equipped to start a nuclear war
>> we couldn't survive. Wouldn't you?
>
>The whole point is that having nuclear armed submarines at sea means
>that no-one can attack without potentially suffering a retaliatory
>attack. Hospitals are of no use if someone decides to obliterate your
>country, knowing that there will be no response.
>
>While it would be better if no countries had nuclear weapons, while some
>potential enemies do, it makes sense to have your own response of last
>resort.

The BIG issues for me about Nuclear conflict is it starting accidentally
someone getting a bit trigger happy almost happened in 1979 wasn't it?,
some Russian bloke queries odd radar returns instead of referring to
higher up the chain, which from what had happened would have provoked a
retaliatory strike!..

Nope 1983!, Stanislav Petrov

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alarm_incident
--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
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 by: GB - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 21:14 UTC

On 16/09/2021 20:34, Steve Walker wrote:

> The whole point is that having nuclear armed submarines at sea means
> that no-one can attack without potentially suffering a retaliatory
> attack.

The Argentinians attacked the Falklands, without us obliterating BA.
What better target to attack than one that cannot retaliate?

By not turning the whole of Argentine into radioactive glass, our
so-called nuclear deterrent lost all credibility. So, we might as well
scrap it. Clearly, if we won't nuke the Argies, we certainly won't nuke
the Ruskies.

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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 by: newshound - Thu, 16 Sep 2021 21:59 UTC

On 16/09/2021 22:14, GB wrote:
> On 16/09/2021 20:34, Steve Walker wrote:
>
>> The whole point is that having nuclear armed submarines at sea means
>> that no-one can attack without potentially suffering a retaliatory
>> attack.
>
> The Argentinians attacked the Falklands, without us obliterating BA.
> What better target to attack than one that cannot retaliate?

A god-forsaken set of islands with 2000 inhabitants? Not exactly Pearl
Harbour, was it.

>
> By not turning the whole of Argentine into radioactive glass, our
> so-called nuclear deterrent lost all credibility.

FFS

So, we might as well
> scrap it. Clearly, if we won't nuke the Argies, we certainly won't nuke
> the Ruskies.
>
>
>

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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 by: Pancho - Fri, 17 Sep 2021 00:11 UTC

On 16/09/2021 20:34, Steve Walker wrote:

> The whole point is that having nuclear armed submarines at sea means
> that no-one can attack without potentially suffering a retaliatory
> attack. Hospitals are of no use if someone decides to obliterate your
> country, knowing that there will be no response.
>
> While it would be better if no countries had nuclear weapons, while some
> potential enemies do, it makes sense to have your own response of last
> resort.

I thought nuclear armed subs were essentially a first strike weapon.
They can hide just offshore of the target, reducing warning time to a
few minutes.

ICBMs are just as effective for retaliation, and much cheaper. They can
be mobile and so hard to destroy. The problem is they take much longer
from launch to arrival and give the target nation time to react to an
attack.

But we aren't giving the Aussies nuclear bombs are we? We are just
giving them nuclear powered subs.

I was more intrigued by the idea of nuclear powered container ships.

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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From: gfretw...@aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical
Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2021 22:05:08 -0400
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 by: gfretw...@aol.com - Fri, 17 Sep 2021 02:05 UTC

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 21:49:10 +0100, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk>
wrote:

>>>
>>> Nah! If you're going to do the job, do it properly.
>>>
>>> If I had the choice between several dozen new hospitals and a fleet of
>>> new nuclear submarines, I'd want to be equipped to start a nuclear war
>>> we couldn't survive. Wouldn't you?
>>
>>The whole point is that having nuclear armed submarines at sea means
>>that no-one can attack without potentially suffering a retaliatory
>>attack. Hospitals are of no use if someone decides to obliterate your
>>country, knowing that there will be no response.
>>
>>While it would be better if no countries had nuclear weapons, while some
>>potential enemies do, it makes sense to have your own response of last
>>resort.
>
>
>The BIG issues for me about Nuclear conflict is it starting accidentally
>someone getting a bit trigger happy almost happened in 1979 wasn't it?,
>some Russian bloke queries odd radar returns instead of referring to
>higher up the chain, which from what had happened would have provoked a
>retaliatory strike!..
>
>Nope 1983!, Stanislav Petrov
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alarm_incident

There have been more than a few close calls. During the Cuban Missile
Clusterfuck the US Navy depth charged a Russian sub carrying a nuke
torpedo and Vasili Arkhipov the political officer aboard prevented
WWIII by not letting the captain shoot it.

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
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 by: gfretw...@aol.com - Fri, 17 Sep 2021 02:08 UTC

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 22:14:17 +0100, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.com>
wrote:

>On 16/09/2021 20:34, Steve Walker wrote:
>
>> The whole point is that having nuclear armed submarines at sea means
>> that no-one can attack without potentially suffering a retaliatory
>> attack.
>
>The Argentinians attacked the Falklands, without us obliterating BA.
>What better target to attack than one that cannot retaliate?
>
>By not turning the whole of Argentine into radioactive glass, our
>so-called nuclear deterrent lost all credibility. So, we might as well
>scrap it. Clearly, if we won't nuke the Argies, we certainly won't nuke
>the Ruskies.
>
The Brits sunk their battleship and pretty much wiped up the floor
with their army so a nuke wasn't necessary.

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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 by: gfretw...@aol.com - Fri, 17 Sep 2021 02:14 UTC

On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 01:11:45 +0100, Pancho
<Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 16/09/2021 20:34, Steve Walker wrote:
>
>> The whole point is that having nuclear armed submarines at sea means
>> that no-one can attack without potentially suffering a retaliatory
>> attack. Hospitals are of no use if someone decides to obliterate your
>> country, knowing that there will be no response.
>>
>> While it would be better if no countries had nuclear weapons, while some
>> potential enemies do, it makes sense to have your own response of last
>> resort.
>
>I thought nuclear armed subs were essentially a first strike weapon.
>They can hide just offshore of the target, reducing warning time to a
>few minutes.
>
>ICBMs are just as effective for retaliation, and much cheaper. They can
>be mobile and so hard to destroy. The problem is they take much longer
>from launch to arrival and give the target nation time to react to an
>attack.
>
>But we aren't giving the Aussies nuclear bombs are we? We are just
>giving them nuclear powered subs.
>
>I was more intrigued by the idea of nuclear powered container ships.

We had the NS Savanna and it was quietly retired.

Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?

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Subject: Re: OT Nuclear U-Boats; how do they condense the steam?
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 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 17 Sep 2021 05:37 UTC

GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.com> wrote
> On 16/09/2021 17:46, nightjar wrote:
>> On 16/09/2021 16:49, GB wrote:
>>> On 16/09/2021 15:54, nightjar wrote:
>>>
>>>> The main engineering problem seems to be keeping it from making
>>>> detectable noise while the boat is running in quiet mode.
>>>
>>> That doesn't seem to be an issue, judging by the Vigil films. There's a
>>> tannoy system that must be audible miles away, and the crew seem to
>>> shout at each other the whole time. What difference would a little
>>> gurgling from the reactor make?
>>>
>>>
>> I'm talking about real life :-)
>
> :)
>
>
>> However, there is a high power setting fro the coolant pumps, which is
>> relatively noisy. That is used when maximum power is more important than
>> stealth. It is also used when leaving port, as it prevents any spy or spy
>> ship from listening for the boat's silent running signature.
>
> That's interesting. I wonder what happens if they forget to do that once?
> Do they scrap the fleet and buy a new one? If so, it would be quite an
> expensive mistake.

Rather unlikely any spy or spy ship bothers to monitor each
one leaving port in the hope that there might be a mistake.

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