The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an additional 41 miles.

Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being able to connect with your desktop from the garage.

On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:22:21 -0800 (PST),
Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being
> it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit
> irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can
> send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply
> entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of
> the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data
> and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an
> additional 41 miles.
>
> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being
> able to connect with your desktop from the garage.

Ride data on my Garmin Edge 820 gets automatically uploaded to the
Garmin website as long as I have the Garmin app open on my iPhone.
The Garmin and phone are linked by Bluetooth.

I also have RWGPS synced to the Garmin website, so after it lands
on the Garmin site it just shows up in RWGPS. Pretty slick.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 8:22:23 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an additional 41 miles.
>
> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being able to connect with your desktop from the garage.

That doesn’t make sense to me. Your ride is not lost it is still on your Garmin if you saved your ride after you stopped your ride. You start a ride and stop a ride after which you are asked ‘save?’ If you say yes the ride is stored on your Garmin. You can transfer it to your computer any time after that unless you delete on your Garmin. You may make a Garmin connect account and look into the Garmin Express application. After you connected your Garmin device to your computer and your Garmin is synced with your Garmin connect account and new saved rides are uploaded automatically. The Garmin Edge 1030 and also other recent models can be setup to connect to your wifi network at home and then your device is synced wwithout the need to connect it to your computer. That is the way I do it. You still have to save your ride on your Garmin after your ride. It will be in the hystory directory.

Lou

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 3:30:21 PM UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 8:22:23 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an additional 41 miles.
> >
> > Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
> That doesn’t make sense to me. Your ride is not lost it is still on your Garmin if you saved your ride after you stopped your ride. You start a ride and stop a ride after which you are asked ‘save?’ If you say yes the ride is stored on your Garmin. You can transfer it to your computer any time after that unless you delete on your Garmin. You may make a Garmin connect account and look into the Garmin Express application. After you connected your Garmin device to your computer and your Garmin is synced with your Garmin connect account and new saved rides are uploaded automatically. The Garmin Edge 1030 and also other recent models can be setup to connect to your wifi network at home and then your device is synced wwithout the need to connect it to your computer. That is the way I do it. You still have to save your ride on your Garmin after your ride. It will be in the hystory directory.
>
> Lou
That's my experience - I'm using a Forerunner 745 now, When I hit save it first looks for my wifi network. If it cant find that, it looks for my phone via bluetooth. It it finds neither it simply waits until one of them is in rage then it uploads. I recently stopped the watch after a run and forgot to hit save, so it just saved it automatically, then uploaded when it was in range of my phone. It also automatically syncs when I connects it to the USB charger on the PC. It seems like they went out of their way to make sure you don't lose your workouts.

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 12:30:21 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 8:22:23 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an additional 41 miles.
> >
> > Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
> That doesn’t make sense to me. Your ride is not lost it is still on your Garmin if you saved your ride after you stopped your ride. You start a ride and stop a ride after which you are asked ‘save?’ If you say yes the ride is stored on your Garmin. You can transfer it to your computer any time after that unless you delete on your Garmin. You may make a Garmin connect account and look into the Garmin Express application. After you connected your Garmin device to your computer and your Garmin is synced with your Garmin connect account and new saved rides are uploaded automatically. The Garmin Edge 1030 and also other recent models can be setup to connect to your wifi network at home and then your device is synced wwithout the need to connect it to your computer. That is the way I do it. You still have to save your ride on your Garmin after your ride. It will be in the hystory directory.

Remember that my memory is all screwed up but don't "save" the ride by pushing the save button. I simply plug it into the desktop and it downloads that way. That 42 mile ride either didn't download or perhaps I didn't open the Garmin program that would download it. That is extremely rare. That is normally the first thing I do upon returning. It is part of my recovery routine of sitting down to rest. I have no idea how or why I would couple my Garmin. This would let the government know where I was on any ride.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being it into
> the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit irritating when
> the whole hose has a net of its own and can send and receive via
> Bluetooth. One would expect that simply entering the address would allow
> the Garmin to download all of the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten
> to download the data and simply charged it instead so I am presently
> missing an additional 41 miles.
>
> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being able to
> connect with your desktop from the garage.
>
Any Garmin sold today or even from a few years ago will link to your phone,
and some your home WiFi and then upload that way, some are bit of arse to
set up but once done tend to work well.

As will most if not all of the competition as well!

Roger Merriman

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 12:30:21 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 8:22:23 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being it into
>>> the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit irritating when
>>> the whole hose has a net of its own and can send and receive via
>>> Bluetooth. One would expect that simply entering the address would
>>> allow the Garmin to download all of the data. Yesterday I must have
>>> forgotten to download the data and simply charged it instead so I am
>>> presently missing an additional 41 miles.
>>>
>>> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being able to
>>> connect with your desktop from the garage.
>> That doesn’t make sense to me. Your ride is not lost it is still on your
>> Garmin if you saved your ride after you stopped your ride. You start a
>> ride and stop a ride after which you are asked ‘save?’ If you say yes
>> the ride is stored on your Garmin. You can transfer it to your computer
>> any time after that unless you delete on your Garmin. You may make a
>> Garmin connect account and look into the Garmin Express application.
>> After you connected your Garmin device to your computer and your Garmin
>> is synced with your Garmin connect account and new saved rides are
>> uploaded automatically. The Garmin Edge 1030 and also other recent
>> models can be setup to connect to your wifi network at home and then
>> your device is synced wwithout the need to connect it to your computer.
>> That is the way I do it. You still have to save your ride on your Garmin
>> after your ride. It will be in the hystory directory.
>
> Remember that my memory is all screwed up but don't "save" the ride by
> pushing the save button. I simply plug it into the desktop and it
> downloads that way. That 42 mile ride either didn't download or perhaps I
> didn't open the Garmin program that would download it. That is extremely
> rare. That is normally the first thing I do upon returning. It is part of
> my recovery routine of sitting down to rest. I have no idea how or why I
> would couple my Garmin. This would let the government know where I was on any ride.
>
Have you checked the ride history on the Garmin and equally if there is a
file when it’s connected to the computer.

Garmin connect on the phone doesn’t generally use data ie talk to other
servers. GPS is receive only.

Since most folks seem to let there phones log them into places and what not
via Google maps/Facebook which personally I’m not huge fan of, I like both
but and will allow them my location but only as and when I choose.

Though is handy for traffic it’s how Google map calculates how busy roads
are etc, so I benefit from others doing so.

Roger Merriman.

Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:22:21 -0800 (PST),
> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being
>> it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit
>> irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can
>> send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply
>> entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of
>> the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data
>> and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an
>> additional 41 miles.
>>
>> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being
>> able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
>
> Ride data on my Garmin Edge 820 gets automatically uploaded to the
> Garmin website as long as I have the Garmin app open on my iPhone.
> The Garmin and phone are linked by Bluetooth.
>
> I also have RWGPS synced to the Garmin website, so after it lands
> on the Garmin site it just shows up in RWGPS. Pretty slick.
>

My 830 syncs after I end my ride either to my wifi if I’m home or via
Bluetooth and my phone. Not sure which one takes precedence. For sure I
haven’t had to connect to a computer to sync. The 800 didn’t have this
ability though.

Duane <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:22:21 -0800 (PST),
>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being
>>> it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit
>>> irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can
>>> send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply
>>> entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of
>>> the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data
>>> and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an
>>> additional 41 miles.
>>>
>>> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being
>>> able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
>>
>> Ride data on my Garmin Edge 820 gets automatically uploaded to the
>> Garmin website as long as I have the Garmin app open on my iPhone.
>> The Garmin and phone are linked by Bluetooth.
>>
>> I also have RWGPS synced to the Garmin website, so after it lands
>> on the Garmin site it just shows up in RWGPS. Pretty slick.
>>
>
> My 830 syncs after I end my ride either to my wifi if I’m home or via
> Bluetooth and my phone. Not sure which one takes precedence. For sure I
> haven’t had to connect to a computer to sync. The 800 didn’t have this
> ability though.
>
>
Note that it doesn’t do map updates I connect it (Garmin 830) up to my
wife’s more modern laptop a few times a year so it can get updated, mainly
the off-road stuff!

Roger Merriman.

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 5:53:02 PM UTC-6, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Duane <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:22:21 -0800 (PST),
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being
> >>> it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit
> >>> irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can
> >>> send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply
> >>> entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of
> >>> the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data
> >>> and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an
> >>> additional 41 miles.
> >>>
> >>> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being
> >>> able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
> >>
> >> Ride data on my Garmin Edge 820 gets automatically uploaded to the
> >> Garmin website as long as I have the Garmin app open on my iPhone.
> >> The Garmin and phone are linked by Bluetooth.
> >>
> >> I also have RWGPS synced to the Garmin website, so after it lands
> >> on the Garmin site it just shows up in RWGPS. Pretty slick.
> >>
> >
> > My 830 syncs after I end my ride either to my wifi if I’m home or via
> > Bluetooth and my phone. Not sure which one takes precedence. For sure I
> > haven’t had to connect to a computer to sync. The 800 didn’t have this
> > ability though.
> >
> >
> Note that it doesn’t do map updates I connect it (Garmin 830) up to my
> wife’s more modern laptop a few times a year so it can get updated, mainly
> the off-road stuff!
>
> Roger Merriman.
My garmin 935 and 645 will save the ride and simply sync to my Garmin account when I get near my phone. Since ride with my phone I stop the garmin and then hit save and it simply uploads to garmin and strava. Not really anything tricky but Tom your memory issue may be playing games with how you upload. Do you use Strava and I assume you have a Garmin Connect account. The Garmin will pretty much do most of your thinking and work. Once in a while the software gets hung up but I am a loyal Garmin user they have been good to the old deacon
Deacon Mark

Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
> Duane <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:22:21 -0800 (PST),
>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being
>>>> it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit
>>>> irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can
>>>> send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply
>>>> entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of
>>>> the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data
>>>> and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an
>>>> additional 41 miles.
>>>>
>>>> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being
>>>> able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
>>>
>>> Ride data on my Garmin Edge 820 gets automatically uploaded to the
>>> Garmin website as long as I have the Garmin app open on my iPhone.
>>> The Garmin and phone are linked by Bluetooth.
>>>
>>> I also have RWGPS synced to the Garmin website, so after it lands
>>> on the Garmin site it just shows up in RWGPS. Pretty slick.
>>>
>>
>> My 830 syncs after I end my ride either to my wifi if I’m home or via
>> Bluetooth and my phone. Not sure which one takes precedence. For sure I
>> haven’t had to connect to a computer to sync. The 800 didn’t have this
>> ability though.
>>
>>
> Note that it doesn’t do map updates I connect it (Garmin 830) up to my
> wife’s more modern laptop a few times a year so it can get updated, mainly
> the off-road stuff!
>
> Roger Merriman.
>
>

Yeah I should have mentioned that to avoid confusion.

Mark Cleary <deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 5:53:02 PM UTC-6, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Duane <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:22:21 -0800 (PST),
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being
>>>>> it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit
>>>>> irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can
>>>>> send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply
>>>>> entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of
>>>>> the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data
>>>>> and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an
>>>>> additional 41 miles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being
>>>>> able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
>>>>
>>>> Ride data on my Garmin Edge 820 gets automatically uploaded to the
>>>> Garmin website as long as I have the Garmin app open on my iPhone.
>>>> The Garmin and phone are linked by Bluetooth.
>>>>
>>>> I also have RWGPS synced to the Garmin website, so after it lands
>>>> on the Garmin site it just shows up in RWGPS. Pretty slick.
>>>>
>>>
>>> My 830 syncs after I end my ride either to my wifi if I’m home or via
>>> Bluetooth and my phone. Not sure which one takes precedence. For sure I
>>> haven’t had to connect to a computer to sync. The 800 didn’t have this
>>> ability though.
>>>
>>>
>> Note that it doesn’t do map updates I connect it (Garmin 830) up to my
>> wife’s more modern laptop a few times a year so it can get updated, mainly
>> the off-road stuff!
>>
>> Roger Merriman.
> My garmin 935 and 645 will save the ride and simply sync to my Garmin
> account when I get near my phone. Since ride with my phone I stop the
> garmin and then hit save and it simply uploads to garmin and strava. Not
> really anything tricky but Tom your memory issue may be playing games
> with how you upload. Do you use Strava and I assume you have a Garmin
> Connect account. The Garmin will pretty much do most of your thinking and
> work. Once in a while the software gets hung up but I am a loyal Garmin
> user they have been good to the old deacon
> Deacon Mark
>

Maybe Tom has an 800 or older that did not sync over wifi or Bluetooth.

Duane <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Mark Cleary <deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 5:53:02 PM UTC-6, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Duane <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:22:21 -0800 (PST),
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being
>>>>>> it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit
>>>>>> irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can
>>>>>> send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply
>>>>>> entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of
>>>>>> the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data
>>>>>> and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an
>>>>>> additional 41 miles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being
>>>>>> able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ride data on my Garmin Edge 820 gets automatically uploaded to the
>>>>> Garmin website as long as I have the Garmin app open on my iPhone.
>>>>> The Garmin and phone are linked by Bluetooth.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also have RWGPS synced to the Garmin website, so after it lands
>>>>> on the Garmin site it just shows up in RWGPS. Pretty slick.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My 830 syncs after I end my ride either to my wifi if I’m home or via
>>>> Bluetooth and my phone. Not sure which one takes precedence. For sure I
>>>> haven’t had to connect to a computer to sync. The 800 didn’t have this
>>>> ability though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Note that it doesn’t do map updates I connect it (Garmin 830) up to my
>>> wife’s more modern laptop a few times a year so it can get updated, mainly
>>> the off-road stuff!
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman.
>> My garmin 935 and 645 will save the ride and simply sync to my Garmin
>> account when I get near my phone. Since ride with my phone I stop the
>> garmin and then hit save and it simply uploads to garmin and strava. Not
>> really anything tricky but Tom your memory issue may be playing games
>> with how you upload. Do you use Strava and I assume you have a Garmin
>> Connect account. The Garmin will pretty much do most of your thinking and
>> work. Once in a while the software gets hung up but I am a loyal Garmin
>> user they have been good to the old deacon
>> Deacon Mark
>>
>
> Maybe Tom has an 800 or older that did not sync over wifi or Bluetooth.
>
>
Has a 1030 so fairly high end and will do everything!

Roger Merriman

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 3:23:20 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 12:30:21 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 8:22:23 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being it into
> >>> the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit irritating when
> >>> the whole hose has a net of its own and can send and receive via
> >>> Bluetooth. One would expect that simply entering the address would
> >>> allow the Garmin to download all of the data. Yesterday I must have
> >>> forgotten to download the data and simply charged it instead so I am
> >>> presently missing an additional 41 miles.
> >>>
> >>> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being able to
> >>> connect with your desktop from the garage.
> >> That doesn’t make sense to me. Your ride is not lost it is still on your
> >> Garmin if you saved your ride after you stopped your ride. You start a
> >> ride and stop a ride after which you are asked ‘save?’ If you say yes
> >> the ride is stored on your Garmin. You can transfer it to your computer
> >> any time after that unless you delete on your Garmin. You may make a
> >> Garmin connect account and look into the Garmin Express application.
> >> After you connected your Garmin device to your computer and your Garmin
> >> is synced with your Garmin connect account and new saved rides are
> >> uploaded automatically. The Garmin Edge 1030 and also other recent
> >> models can be setup to connect to your wifi network at home and then
> >> your device is synced wwithout the need to connect it to your computer..
> >> That is the way I do it. You still have to save your ride on your Garmin
> >> after your ride. It will be in the hystory directory.
> >
> > Remember that my memory is all screwed up but don't "save" the ride by
> > pushing the save button. I simply plug it into the desktop and it
> > downloads that way. That 42 mile ride either didn't download or perhaps I
> > didn't open the Garmin program that would download it. That is extremely
> > rare. That is normally the first thing I do upon returning. It is part of
> > my recovery routine of sitting down to rest. I have no idea how or why I
> > would couple my Garmin. This would let the government know where I was on any ride.
> >
> Have you checked the ride history on the Garmin and equally if there is a
> file when it’s connected to the computer.
>
> Garmin connect on the phone doesn’t generally use data ie talk to other
> servers. GPS is receive only.
>
> Since most folks seem to let there phones log them into places and what not
> via Google maps/Facebook which personally I’m not huge fan of, I like both
> but and will allow them my location but only as and when I choose.
>
> Though is handy for traffic it’s how Google map calculates how busy roads
> are etc, so I benefit from others doing so.

Perhaps you forget that the government was monitoring EVERYONE during the Bush administration and that caused such a stir that a law was passed making it necessary to obtain a FISA warrant to monitor others. But this has been so generally ignored and abused people should expect that they are being constantly monitored 24 hours a day. Whether or not your phone is GPS enabled, if it is connected to your Garmin it also provides precise position as well.

For instance - 33 million people were monitored in Canada to assure they were remaining in lock down. Does that seem a large number? It isn't ANYTHING compared to the capacity of American government computer systems. Believe me when I say that they can tell you what you ate in the last restaurant you attended if you paid by credit card. They not only can track your long distance journey's via gar station stops with credit cards but can and DO via your cell phone. The only thing that a FISA warrant does is give them permission to LOOK at the data, not to start taking it.

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 3:32:18 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
> Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:22:21 -0800 (PST),
> > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being
> >> it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit
> >> irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can
> >> send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply
> >> entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of
> >> the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data
> >> and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an
> >> additional 41 miles.
> >>
> >> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being
> >> able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
> >
> > Ride data on my Garmin Edge 820 gets automatically uploaded to the
> > Garmin website as long as I have the Garmin app open on my iPhone.
> > The Garmin and phone are linked by Bluetooth.
> >
> > I also have RWGPS synced to the Garmin website, so after it lands
> > on the Garmin site it just shows up in RWGPS. Pretty slick.
> >
> My 830 syncs after I end my ride either to my wifi if I’m home or via
> Bluetooth and my phone. Not sure which one takes precedence. For sure I
> haven’t had to connect to a computer to sync. The 800 didn’t have this
> ability though.
I have an 820 and while I think it has the ability to do that I don't know how to set it up.

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 4:23:51 PM UTC-8, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 5:53:02 PM UTC-6, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > Duane <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > > Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:22:21 -0800 (PST),
> > >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being
> > >>> it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit
> > >>> irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can
> > >>> send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply
> > >>> entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of
> > >>> the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data
> > >>> and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an
> > >>> additional 41 miles.
> > >>>
> > >>> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being
> > >>> able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
> > >>
> > >> Ride data on my Garmin Edge 820 gets automatically uploaded to the
> > >> Garmin website as long as I have the Garmin app open on my iPhone.
> > >> The Garmin and phone are linked by Bluetooth.
> > >>
> > >> I also have RWGPS synced to the Garmin website, so after it lands
> > >> on the Garmin site it just shows up in RWGPS. Pretty slick.
> > >>
> > >
> > > My 830 syncs after I end my ride either to my wifi if I’m home or via
> > > Bluetooth and my phone. Not sure which one takes precedence. For sure I
> > > haven’t had to connect to a computer to sync. The 800 didn’t have this
> > > ability though.
> > >
> > >
> > Note that it doesn’t do map updates I connect it (Garmin 830) up to my
> > wife’s more modern laptop a few times a year so it can get updated, mainly
> > the off-road stuff!
> >
> > Roger Merriman.
> My garmin 935 and 645 will save the ride and simply sync to my Garmin account when I get near my phone. Since ride with my phone I stop the garmin and then hit save and it simply uploads to garmin and strava. Not really anything tricky but Tom your memory issue may be playing games with how you upload. Do you use Strava and I assume you have a Garmin Connect account. The Garmin will pretty much do most of your thinking and work. Once in a while the software gets hung up but I am a loyal Garmin user they have been good to the old deacon
> Deacon Mark

I never gave Strava permission to make my rides public but apparently it is automatic. So when I would make a ride, every Tom, Dick and Harry would be out to beat my times. Then I would be getting "HaHa" emails. So I got off of Strava. It isn't that I mind some other senior citizen attempting to meet or break my time but some 22 year old grows very tiresome.

Looking at the Garmin it seems to have a Garmin Remote setting but requires the password to my home system which I promptly forgot after installing it.. I suppose that is why it doesn't link.

On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 6:29:51 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 3:32:18 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
> > Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:22:21 -0800 (PST),
> > > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being
> > >> it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit
> > >> irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can
> > >> send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply
> > >> entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of
> > >> the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data
> > >> and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an
> > >> additional 41 miles.
> > >>
> > >> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being
> > >> able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
> > >
> > > Ride data on my Garmin Edge 820 gets automatically uploaded to the
> > > Garmin website as long as I have the Garmin app open on my iPhone.
> > > The Garmin and phone are linked by Bluetooth.
> > >
> > > I also have RWGPS synced to the Garmin website, so after it lands
> > > on the Garmin site it just shows up in RWGPS. Pretty slick.
> > >
> > My 830 syncs after I end my ride either to my wifi if I’m home or via
> > Bluetooth and my phone. Not sure which one takes precedence. For sure I
> > haven’t had to connect to a computer to sync. The 800 didn’t have this
> > ability though.
> I have an 820 and while I think it has the ability to do that I don't know how to set it up.

Are you sure you have a Edge 820? The last we went to a lot of trouble to help you assuming you had a 820. At the end you telling us you had a 800 at all our trouble was useless, and at least I was annoyed.

Lou

On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 10:15:26 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 6:29:51 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 3:32:18 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
> > > Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:22:21 -0800 (PST),
> > > > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being
> > > >> it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit
> > > >> irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can
> > > >> send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply
> > > >> entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of
> > > >> the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data
> > > >> and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an
> > > >> additional 41 miles.
> > > >>
> > > >> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being
> > > >> able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
> > > >
> > > > Ride data on my Garmin Edge 820 gets automatically uploaded to the
> > > > Garmin website as long as I have the Garmin app open on my iPhone.
> > > > The Garmin and phone are linked by Bluetooth.
> > > >
> > > > I also have RWGPS synced to the Garmin website, so after it lands
> > > > on the Garmin site it just shows up in RWGPS. Pretty slick.
> > > >
> > > My 830 syncs after I end my ride either to my wifi if I’m home or via
> > > Bluetooth and my phone. Not sure which one takes precedence. For sure I
> > > haven’t had to connect to a computer to sync. The 800 didn’t have this
> > > ability though.
> > I have an 820 and while I think it has the ability to do that I don't know how to set it up.
> Are you sure you have a Edge 820? The last we went to a lot of trouble to help you assuming you had a 820. At the end you telling us you had a 800 at all our trouble was useless, and at least I was annoyed.

I have an older 1010 or something like that, that has the old style slip in mount that I don't use, an 800 (or perhaps an 810, I don't know how to tell the difference) and an 820.

None of these Garmin's work in a logical manner but the 800 has provisions for directing you to the nearest restaurant or motel. It can also give you directions back home on the video screen. That was handy for awhile when I could get lost so easily after recovering.

On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 1:15:26 PM UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 6:29:51 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 3:32:18 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
> > > Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:22:21 -0800 (PST),
> > > > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being
> > > >> it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit
> > > >> irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can
> > > >> send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply
> > > >> entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of
> > > >> the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data
> > > >> and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an
> > > >> additional 41 miles.
> > > >>
> > > >> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being
> > > >> able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
> > > >
> > > > Ride data on my Garmin Edge 820 gets automatically uploaded to the
> > > > Garmin website as long as I have the Garmin app open on my iPhone.
> > > > The Garmin and phone are linked by Bluetooth.
> > > >
> > > > I also have RWGPS synced to the Garmin website, so after it lands
> > > > on the Garmin site it just shows up in RWGPS. Pretty slick.
> > > >
> > > My 830 syncs after I end my ride either to my wifi if I’m home or via
> > > Bluetooth and my phone. Not sure which one takes precedence. For sure I
> > > haven’t had to connect to a computer to sync. The 800 didn’t have this
> > > ability though.
> > I have an 820 and while I think it has the ability to do that I don't know how to set it up.
> Are you sure you have a Edge 820? The last we went to a lot of trouble to help you assuming you had a 820. At the end you telling us you had a 800 at all our trouble was useless, and at least I was annoyed.
>
You'd think a technology genius like tommy who worked on the cutting edge of medical electronics design and telecommunication would be able to figure out a bike computer. But then we just saw his aptitude when he needed help to figure out his magnet was misaligned.

On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 10:38:52 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 1:15:26 PM UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 6:29:51 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 3:32:18 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
> > > > Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:22:21 -0800 (PST),
> > > > > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being
> > > > >> it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit
> > > > >> irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can
> > > > >> send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply
> > > > >> entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of
> > > > >> the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data
> > > > >> and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an
> > > > >> additional 41 miles.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being
> > > > >> able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ride data on my Garmin Edge 820 gets automatically uploaded to the
> > > > > Garmin website as long as I have the Garmin app open on my iPhone..
> > > > > The Garmin and phone are linked by Bluetooth.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also have RWGPS synced to the Garmin website, so after it lands
> > > > > on the Garmin site it just shows up in RWGPS. Pretty slick.
> > > > >
> > > > My 830 syncs after I end my ride either to my wifi if I’m home or via
> > > > Bluetooth and my phone. Not sure which one takes precedence. For sure I
> > > > haven’t had to connect to a computer to sync. The 800 didn’t have this
> > > > ability though.
> > > I have an 820 and while I think it has the ability to do that I don't know how to set it up.
> > Are you sure you have a Edge 820? The last we went to a lot of trouble to help you assuming you had a 820. At the end you telling us you had a 800 at all our trouble was useless, and at least I was annoyed.
> >
> You'd think a technology genius like tommy who worked on the cutting edge of medical electronics design and telecommunication would be able to figure out a bike computer. But then we just saw his aptitude when he needed help to figure out his magnet was misaligned.

And mommy needs to help you with your dirty panties.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 4:23:51 PM UTC-8, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 5:53:02 PM UTC-6, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Duane <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:22:21 -0800 (PST),
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being
>>>>>> it into the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit
>>>>>> irritating when the whole hose has a net of its own and can
>>>>>> send and receive via Bluetooth. One would expect that simply
>>>>>> entering the address would allow the Garmin to download all of
>>>>>> the data. Yesterday I must have forgotten to download the data
>>>>>> and simply charged it instead so I am presently missing an
>>>>>> additional 41 miles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being
>>>>>> able to connect with your desktop from the garage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ride data on my Garmin Edge 820 gets automatically uploaded to the
>>>>> Garmin website as long as I have the Garmin app open on my iPhone.
>>>>> The Garmin and phone are linked by Bluetooth.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also have RWGPS synced to the Garmin website, so after it lands
>>>>> on the Garmin site it just shows up in RWGPS. Pretty slick.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My 830 syncs after I end my ride either to my wifi if I’m home or via
>>>> Bluetooth and my phone. Not sure which one takes precedence. For sure I
>>>> haven’t had to connect to a computer to sync. The 800 didn’t have this
>>>> ability though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Note that it doesn’t do map updates I connect it (Garmin 830) up to my
>>> wife’s more modern laptop a few times a year so it can get updated, mainly
>>> the off-road stuff!
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman.
>> My garmin 935 and 645 will save the ride and simply sync to my Garmin
>> account when I get near my phone. Since ride with my phone I stop the
>> garmin and then hit save and it simply uploads to garmin and strava. Not
>> really anything tricky but Tom your memory issue may be playing games
>> with how you upload. Do you use Strava and I assume you have a Garmin
>> Connect account. The Garmin will pretty much do most of your thinking
>> and work. Once in a while the software gets hung up but I am a loyal
>> Garmin user they have been good to the old deacon
>> Deacon Mark
>
> I never gave Strava permission to make my rides public but apparently it
> is automatic. So when I would make a ride, every Tom, Dick and Harry
> would be out to beat my times. Then I would be getting "HaHa" emails. So
> I got off of Strava. It isn't that I mind some other senior citizen
> attempting to meet or break my time but some 22 year old grows very tiresome.

Strava certainly in the early days had some privacy concerns, in that it
was more open, it is though much better as with anything it’s best to check
the settings and chose what you’re happy to share or not.
>
> Looking at the Garmin it seems to have a Garmin Remote setting but
> requires the password to my home system which I promptly forgot after
> installing it. I suppose that is why it doesn't link.
>
Depending on the Garmin and phone you can link together so it will upload
via that. But since you’ve said your not sure. Difficult to give advice to
be honest.

Roger Merriman.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 3:23:20 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 12:30:21 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 8:22:23 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being it into
>>>>> the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit irritating when
>>>>> the whole hose has a net of its own and can send and receive via
>>>>> Bluetooth. One would expect that simply entering the address would
>>>>> allow the Garmin to download all of the data. Yesterday I must have
>>>>> forgotten to download the data and simply charged it instead so I am
>>>>> presently missing an additional 41 miles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being able to
>>>>> connect with your desktop from the garage.
>>>> That doesn’t make sense to me. Your ride is not lost it is still on your
>>>> Garmin if you saved your ride after you stopped your ride. You start a
>>>> ride and stop a ride after which you are asked ‘save?’ If you say yes
>>>> the ride is stored on your Garmin. You can transfer it to your computer
>>>> any time after that unless you delete on your Garmin. You may make a
>>>> Garmin connect account and look into the Garmin Express application.
>>>> After you connected your Garmin device to your computer and your Garmin
>>>> is synced with your Garmin connect account and new saved rides are
>>>> uploaded automatically. The Garmin Edge 1030 and also other recent
>>>> models can be setup to connect to your wifi network at home and then
>>>> your device is synced wwithout the need to connect it to your computer.
>>>> That is the way I do it. You still have to save your ride on your Garmin
>>>> after your ride. It will be in the hystory directory.
>>>
>>> Remember that my memory is all screwed up but don't "save" the ride by
>>> pushing the save button. I simply plug it into the desktop and it
>>> downloads that way. That 42 mile ride either didn't download or perhaps I
>>> didn't open the Garmin program that would download it. That is extremely
>>> rare. That is normally the first thing I do upon returning. It is part of
>>> my recovery routine of sitting down to rest. I have no idea how or why I
>>> would couple my Garmin. This would let the government know where I was on any ride.
>>>
>> Have you checked the ride history on the Garmin and equally if there is a
>> file when it’s connected to the computer.
>>
>> Garmin connect on the phone doesn’t generally use data ie talk to other
>> servers. GPS is receive only.
>>
>> Since most folks seem to let there phones log them into places and what not
>> via Google maps/Facebook which personally I’m not huge fan of, I like both
>> but and will allow them my location but only as and when I choose.
>>
>> Though is handy for traffic it’s how Google map calculates how busy roads
>> are etc, so I benefit from others doing so.
>
> Perhaps you forget that the government was monitoring EVERYONE during the
> Bush administration and that caused such a stir that a law was passed
> making it necessary to obtain a FISA warrant to monitor others. But this
> has been so generally ignored and abused people should expect that they
> are being constantly monitored 24 hours a day. Whether or not your phone
> is GPS enabled, if it is connected to your Garmin it also provides
> precise position as well.
>
> For instance - 33 million people were monitored in Canada to assure they
> were remaining in lock down. Does that seem a large number? It isn't
> ANYTHING compared to the capacity of American government computer
> systems. Believe me when I say that they can tell you what you ate in the
> last restaurant you attended if you paid by credit card. They not only
> can track your long distance journey's via gar station stops with credit
> cards but can and DO via your cell phone. The only thing that a FISA
> warrant does is give them permission to LOOK at the data, not to start taking it.
>
Uk which I believe has tighter regulations with that, any way.

Yes they can ask networks and banks for such details but clearly will have
to justify.

Some apps do by default give your postion/time Google maps being one. But
again these can be turned off.

Mobile phone cells are quite variable in size so will not always be
terribly useful, in london they probably could identify where I was quite
closely, in the hills of wales quite large lump of land.

It’s not the phone as such that reports the location, all it does it’s the
calculation, it’s a one way transmission.

But various apps will if you let them share your location etc. but again
reasonably easy to turn such things off, or at least only when used after
all Google maps is a useful tool I just don’t want it telling Google where
I am 24/7!

Roger Merriman

On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 11:04:24 AM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 3:23:20 PM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 12:30:21 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 8:22:23 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>> The problem with a Garmin is that you have to remember to being it into
> >>>>> the house and connect it to the Internet. That is a bit irritating when
> >>>>> the whole hose has a net of its own and can send and receive via
> >>>>> Bluetooth. One would expect that simply entering the address would
> >>>>> allow the Garmin to download all of the data. Yesterday I must have
> >>>>> forgotten to download the data and simply charged it instead so I am
> >>>>> presently missing an additional 41 miles.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 they hint at the device being able to
> >>>>> connect with your desktop from the garage.
> >>>> That doesn’t make sense to me. Your ride is not lost it is still on your
> >>>> Garmin if you saved your ride after you stopped your ride. You start a
> >>>> ride and stop a ride after which you are asked ‘save?’ If you say yes
> >>>> the ride is stored on your Garmin. You can transfer it to your computer
> >>>> any time after that unless you delete on your Garmin. You may make a
> >>>> Garmin connect account and look into the Garmin Express application.
> >>>> After you connected your Garmin device to your computer and your Garmin
> >>>> is synced with your Garmin connect account and new saved rides are
> >>>> uploaded automatically. The Garmin Edge 1030 and also other recent
> >>>> models can be setup to connect to your wifi network at home and then
> >>>> your device is synced wwithout the need to connect it to your computer.
> >>>> That is the way I do it. You still have to save your ride on your Garmin
> >>>> after your ride. It will be in the hystory directory.
> >>>
> >>> Remember that my memory is all screwed up but don't "save" the ride by
> >>> pushing the save button. I simply plug it into the desktop and it
> >>> downloads that way. That 42 mile ride either didn't download or perhaps I
> >>> didn't open the Garmin program that would download it. That is extremely
> >>> rare. That is normally the first thing I do upon returning. It is part of
> >>> my recovery routine of sitting down to rest. I have no idea how or why I
> >>> would couple my Garmin. This would let the government know where I was on any ride.
> >>>
> >> Have you checked the ride history on the Garmin and equally if there is a
> >> file when it’s connected to the computer.
> >>
> >> Garmin connect on the phone doesn’t generally use data ie talk to other
> >> servers. GPS is receive only.
> >>
> >> Since most folks seem to let there phones log them into places and what not
> >> via Google maps/Facebook which personally I’m not huge fan of, I like both
> >> but and will allow them my location but only as and when I choose.
> >>
> >> Though is handy for traffic it’s how Google map calculates how busy roads
> >> are etc, so I benefit from others doing so.
> >
> > Perhaps you forget that the government was monitoring EVERYONE during the
> > Bush administration and that caused such a stir that a law was passed
> > making it necessary to obtain a FISA warrant to monitor others. But this
> > has been so generally ignored and abused people should expect that they
> > are being constantly monitored 24 hours a day. Whether or not your phone
> > is GPS enabled, if it is connected to your Garmin it also provides
> > precise position as well.
> >
> > For instance - 33 million people were monitored in Canada to assure they
> > were remaining in lock down. Does that seem a large number? It isn't
> > ANYTHING compared to the capacity of American government computer
> > systems. Believe me when I say that they can tell you what you ate in the
> > last restaurant you attended if you paid by credit card. They not only
> > can track your long distance journey's via gar station stops with credit
> > cards but can and DO via your cell phone. The only thing that a FISA
> > warrant does is give them permission to LOOK at the data, not to start taking it.
> >
> Uk which I believe has tighter regulations with that, any way.
>
> Yes they can ask networks and banks for such details but clearly will have
> to justify.
>
> Some apps do by default give your postion/time Google maps being one. But
> again these can be turned off.
>
> Mobile phone cells are quite variable in size so will not always be
> terribly useful, in london they probably could identify where I was quite
> closely, in the hills of wales quite large lump of land.
>
> It’s not the phone as such that reports the location, all it does it’s the
> calculation, it’s a one way transmission.
>
> But various apps will if you let them share your location etc. but again
> reasonably easy to turn such things off, or at least only when used after
> all Google maps is a useful tool I just don’t want it telling Google where
> I am 24/7!

Well, they can always say 9/11 and that causes people to agree to so many diminishments of rights that it demonstrates that 2,000 people killed by terrorists almost guaranteed the government the right to utter tyranny. This would never happen in an honest government, but the last election plainly showed us to what lengths the Democrats were willing to go to grab power.

At 77 years old I would NEVER have believed that people would elect a liar like Obama for a second term so I have to wonder if the election fraud didn't start there and Trump caught them by surprise so they had to be positive the second time.

But the weirdo left is so far out of the American mainstream that they will NEVER be able to get America to agree with any of their cockeyed policies. And once it is clear that Biden was elected on pure fraud alone, the lefties are going to have a hell of a time doing it again. And I am still for trying every person who was involved with that fraud tried for high treason and rather than shot, put in Federal Prison for the rest of their lives. Most of these were young females who were easily convinced that someone as rank as Trump had to be stopped. The only way of preventing this again is to have them destroyed absolutely by their only view of their children growing up is through a heavy plastic viewing port in the visiting room IF the children are willing to even talk to a mother that would do such a thing.