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tech / alt.astronomy / Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion

SubjectAuthor
* The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religiona425couple
`* Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous ReligionKeith Willshaw
 +* Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous ReligionKym Horsell
 |`* Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religiona425couple
 | `- Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous ReligionKym Horsell
 `* Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religiona425couple
  `* Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous ReligionKeith Willshaw
   `- Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous ReligionJim Wilkins

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The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion

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 by: a425couple - Sat, 22 Apr 2023 19:13 UTC

from
https://nautil.us/the-race-to-colonize-mars-perpetuates-a-dangerous-religion-298323/

The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion
We can learn about the universe without conquering it.

BY BRIAN GALLAGHER April 20, 2023

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Article Lead Image

My alarm rang me awake at 6:25 AM, and I drowsily yet eagerly tapped my
way to YouTube, blinking my bleary eyes to see clearly. There was
SpaceX’s livestream of its latest spectacle: the orbital flight test of
its gargantuan new spacecraft and rocket, Starship, designed to take
dozens humans or heavy cargo to the moon, Mars, and the rest of the
solar system. Millions had tuned in to watch it, excited by the
uncertainty of what would happen.

I dropped in with the launch countdown at … three minutes! My heart
began racing knowing those 33 engines might actually ignite, with double
the thrust of the Saturn V (the rocket that took NASA’s Apollo crews to
the moon). The SpaceX employees at the Hawthorne, California,
headquarters sounded rapturous. At 30 seconds on the clock, they were
cheering or shrieking with unhinged glee. Liftoff! I’ve watched so many
CGI renders of Starship launching, it was uncanny witnessing the real
thing. As if the engineers found some loophole in the physics of reality
to get this 390-foot tall spacecraft off the ground. But that surreal
sense gave way when Starship began cartwheeling in the clouds. It wasn’t
long before it disintegrated (a “rapid unscheduled disassembly”) with a
puff of smoke, like a magician disappearing from the stage. “Welcome to
the Starship era, humanity,” tweeted Eric Berger, author of Liftoff:
Elon Musk and the Desperate Early Days That Launched SpaceX, who was at
the scene. “It began with a bang, as big things often do. The universe
awaits.”

The one time we tried to establish a full-fledged sealed-off habitation
it failed spectacularly.

That worries Mary-Jane Rubenstein, a professor of religion and science
in society at Wesleyan University. She’s the author of the recent book
Astrotopia: The Dangerous Religion of the Corporate Space Race. I spoke
with her last week, ahead of Starship’s flight test, to understand what
concerns her about the technical strides and aspirations of Elon Musk’s
SpaceX. We talked about the company’s mission of enabling thousands of
people to live on Mars, and the ethics of terraforming the planet to be
more like Earth. We discussed the danger of how unregulated space
remains for nations and corporations, which risks stoking strife and
violence. Rubenstein also explained, among other things, the religious
underpinnings of the United States’ space program, and how even modern
science is still hostage to imperialistic Christian ideas.

“I started realizing that religion shows up in the natural sciences and
the contemporary world in a funny and alarming way,” Rubenstein said.
“Because sciences tend to think of themselves as something as far away
as possible from religion, as having freed themselves from God. To an
extent that’s true. But in the process, they tend to generate these big
stories, big mythologies, about the origins and the ends of the world.
And conjure characters who are heroes, gods, and monsters. I started
tracking the way that the natural sciences themselves generate new ways
of understanding the world that, a couple centuries ago, we would have
called religion.” But that’s no criticism of religion. In fact, she
thinks the leaders of the space race could benefit from considering
“pantheistic mysticism.”

In Body Image
SPACE FOR CAUTION: Mary-Jane Rubenstein, author of Astrotopia, believes
we should be careful not to disrespectfully colonize space the way we
did Earth. Photo courtesy of Mary-Jane Rubenstein.
What do you think of SpaceX’s mission “to enable a future where humanity
is out exploring among the stars?”

Under many conditions, a future where humanity is out exploring among
the stars is a perfectly admirable future to aim for. I am worried about
the way in which SpaceX is getting there, the day-to-day operations. The
more near-term goals tend to be obscured by these lofty humanitarian
goals of saving humanity, or spreading consciousness to the stars.
Because of the way that charismatic techno-prophets like Musk talk about
them, they feel somehow possible and palpable. Not only has nobody ever
lived on Mars, nobody has set foot on Mars. We’ve sent rovers, but it
seems to be an absolutely awful planet in terms of human habitation. The
one time we tried to establish a full-fledged sealed-off
habitation—Biosphere 2—it failed spectacularly. And it was on Earth. And
it had a connection to an external power source.

What’s most troubling to you about Elon Musk leading the charge to Mars?
Your book Astrotopia likens the corporate space race to a “dangerous
religion.”

The reason that the corporate space is dangerous—whether or not it’s a
religion—is because it’s so unregulated. We have very weak international
protocols regulating how nations can behave in outer space. We have
nothing regulating how transnational corporations can operate in space.
There’s nobody to hold them accountable. There’s nobody to hold their
impulses in check. And in fact, if you get your internet through Elon
Musk’s satellite constellation, Starlink, you have agreed in the fine
print—which you probably didn’t read—to recognize Mars as a “free
planet,” subject to no Earth-based regulation at all. So he’s already
declared sovereignty for Mars, for a planet that he’s never been to, on
behalf of, from a certain perspective, the Martians who make it there
under the aegis of SpaceX. I worry that this is actually the exact
opposite of what the 1967 Outer Space Treaty was aiming for, which is to
say a multilateral, cooperative, commons-based approach to outer space,
to minimize fighting, strife, and violence. This seems to be the
unilateral opposite of that.

So the idea of going to Mars isn’t dangerous because it’s ultimately
some false illusion.

Right. I’m sure human beings will live underground for a little while,
shielded from radiation. Will they get cancer? Absolutely. It’s going to
be really hard. Are some people’s faces going to explode? Yes. But
considering the exceeding difficulty—the extent to which Mars wants to
absolutely obliterate us—I don’t know that bleeding edge, corporate
capital is the model to follow when human beings go about trying to make
their lives work there. The model on which these new colonies might be
started, historically speaking, sets a really bad precedent. It’s a bad
model. The conditions under which it might happen are damaging to the
Earth, perhaps beyond repair. What’s most troubling is that the vision
can seem, for some people, more possible and palpable than, say,
reversing or slowing the course of climate change on Earth.

How is the corporate space race, as it’s being led by SpaceX, religious?

Certainly the salvation-of-humanity aspect. That would be the religious
message there. But I’m not sure that all of humanity has asked Elon Musk
to save them in this way. There might be more pressing concerns that a
whole lot of us have than the fact that Earth will one day burn up in
the expanding sun.

Do you think that if SpaceX could bring humans to Mars, it would be as
unifying as NASA’s moon landing?

It depends on the extent to which you feel included in that kind of
humanity. In the late 1960s, the jazz poet Gil Scott-Heron published the
spoken word piece called “Whitey on the Moon.” He’s like, “Look, I can’t
afford my rent. A rat bit my sister in this horrible flea bag apartment
that I’m having to live in where I can’t afford the rent. I can’t afford
my taxes. There’s not enough money for groceries. And there’s a white
guy bounding around the moon.” He did not feel included, or lifted up,
by that white guy bounding around. He felt that that move contributed
further to his exploitation by rerouting funds that could have been used
to lift up the poor, to the moon instead, which wasn’t having any kind
of concrete benefit at all.

Are some people’s faces going to explode? Yes.

Similarly, when NASA leased land from the Navajo to test their rockets
in the late ’60s, a Navajo poet said, “Could you deliver a message to
the moon people, please?” And NASA executives were like, “Sure, we’ll
deliver a message to the moon people.” And the message the Navajo folks
wanted to send was, “Watch out for these white guys.” Because they’re
going to destroy the moon people in the same way they destroy the Earth.
So in that case, too, the Navajo speaker did not feel included in this
walk on the moon. He was feeling like this was going to be an extension
of the same thing that displaced his people. I don’t know how you would
measure comparative benefits, but it’s not immediately clear that Neil
Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin’s walk on the moon has done anything for poor
and oppressed folks as a net good, if you can even speak that way.

Musk is interested in terraforming Mars once we’re there, making it
Earth-like. Would that be good?


Click here to read the complete article
Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion

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From: keithwil...@gmail.com (Keith Willshaw)
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Subject: Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 21:30:31 +0100
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 by: Keith Willshaw - Sun, 23 Apr 2023 20:30 UTC

On 22/04/2023 20:13, a425couple wrote:
> from
> https://nautil.us/the-race-to-colonize-mars-perpetuates-a-dangerous-religion-298323/
>
> The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion
> We can learn about the universe without conquering it.
>
> BY BRIAN GALLAGHER April 20, 2023
>

This is fantasy land stuff. Mars has nothing we need and almost nothing
that is useful. As a matter of simple reality we can get everything we
need from the asterod belt and build space habitats without any of the
nonesense of going down into a gravity well. What we have there is the
makings of a planet that never actually coalesced ready for easy mining
and exploitation.

Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion

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Subject: Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion
From: kymhors...@gmail.com (Kym Horsell)
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 by: Kym Horsell - Mon, 24 Apr 2023 13:26 UTC

On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 6:30:34 AM UTC+10, Keith Willshaw wrote:
> On 22/04/2023 20:13, a425couple wrote:
> > from
> > https://nautil.us/the-race-to-colonize-mars-perpetuates-a-dangerous-religion-298323/
> >
> > The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion
> > We can learn about the universe without conquering it.
> >
> > BY BRIAN GALLAGHER April 20, 2023
> >
> This is fantasy land stuff. Mars has nothing we need and almost nothing
> that is useful. As a matter of simple reality we can get everything we
> need from the asterod belt and build space habitats without any of the
> nonesense of going down into a gravity well. What we have there is the
> makings of a planet that never actually coalesced ready for easy mining
> and exploitation.

hear! hear!
hoomin shood play to dere strenfs -- takin da easy way and self gratiflikashin!!

Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion

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 by: a425couple - Mon, 24 Apr 2023 17:23 UTC

On 4/23/23 13:30, Keith Willshaw wrote:
> On 22/04/2023 20:13, a425couple wrote:
>> from
>> https://nautil.us/the-race-to-colonize-mars-perpetuates-a-dangerous-religion-298323/
>>
>> The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion
>> We can learn about the universe without conquering it.
>>
>> BY BRIAN GALLAGHER April 20, 2023
>>
>
> This is fantasy land stuff. Mars has nothing we need and almost nothing
> that is useful. As a matter of simple reality we can get everything we
> need from the asterod belt and build space habitats without any of the
> nonesense of going down into a gravity well. What we have there is the
> makings of a planet that never actually coalesced ready for easy mining
> and exploitation.

And you figure, making huge nets of carbon fiber, to pull together
enough 'material' to make our new shelters protected from
radiation is reasonably cheap and easy.

Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion

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 by: a425couple - Mon, 24 Apr 2023 17:25 UTC

On 4/24/23 06:26, Kym Horsell wrote:
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 6:30:34 AM UTC+10, Keith Willshaw wrote:
>> On 22/04/2023 20:13, a425couple wrote:
>>> from
>>> https://nautil.us/the-race-to-colonize-mars-perpetuates-a-dangerous-religion-298323/
>>>
>>> The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion
>>> We can learn about the universe without conquering it.
>>>
>>> BY BRIAN GALLAGHER April 20, 2023
>>>
>> This is fantasy land stuff. Mars has nothing we need and almost nothing
>> that is useful. As a matter of simple reality we can get everything we
>> need from the asterod belt and build space habitats without any of the
>> nonesense of going down into a gravity well. What we have there is the
>> makings of a planet that never actually coalesced ready for easy mining
>> and exploitation.
>
> hear! hear!
> hoomin shood play to dere strenfs -- takin da easy way and self gratiflikashin!!

Yes, we have been programed for hundreds of thousands of years
to keep looking for the easy way to satisfy our ever expanding
'needs'.

Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion

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Subject: Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion
From: kymhors...@gmail.com (Kym Horsell)
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 by: Kym Horsell - Mon, 24 Apr 2023 21:48 UTC

On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 3:25:33 AM UTC+10, a425couple wrote:
> On 4/24/23 06:26, Kym Horsell wrote:
> > On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 6:30:34 AM UTC+10, Keith Willshaw wrote:
> >> On 22/04/2023 20:13, a425couple wrote:
> >>> from
> >>> https://nautil.us/the-race-to-colonize-mars-perpetuates-a-dangerous-religion-298323/
> >>>
> >>> The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion
> >>> We can learn about the universe without conquering it.
> >>>
> >>> BY BRIAN GALLAGHER April 20, 2023
> >>>
> >> This is fantasy land stuff. Mars has nothing we need and almost nothing
> >> that is useful. As a matter of simple reality we can get everything we
> >> need from the asterod belt and build space habitats without any of the
> >> nonesense of going down into a gravity well. What we have there is the
> >> makings of a planet that never actually coalesced ready for easy mining
> >> and exploitation.
> >
> > hear! hear!
> > hoomin shood play to dere strenfs -- takin da easy way and self gratiflikashin!!
> Yes, we have been programed for hundreds of thousands of years
> to keep looking for the easy way to satisfy our ever expanding
> 'needs'.

Rationalisation: easy.
Reasoning: hard.
No contest!
Woo-hoo!!

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From: keithwil...@gmail.com (Keith Willshaw)
Newsgroups: alt.astronomy,alt.fan.heinlein,rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 00:38:00 +0100
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 by: Keith Willshaw - Mon, 1 May 2023 23:38 UTC

On 24/04/2023 18:23, a425couple wrote:

>
> And you figure, making huge nets of carbon fiber, to pull together
> enough 'material' to make our new shelters protected from
> radiation is reasonably cheap and easy.
>
Well no but then the levels of radiation out at the Asterid Belt are
pretty low and of course there is a recipe. If you want something that
is well shielded. Take one medium size asteroud , hollow it out , give
it some spin and voila you have a habitat with gravity that is
resistant to most impacts. This is what makes the Asteroid belt so nice,
lots of useful stuff already in orbit that you can move using high
efficiency ion thrusters.

The Van Allen belts are a problem in Earth Orbit but not that far out.
Now Jupiter Daturn and Naeotune are radioactive as hell but we dont want
to go that far. The danger exposure time on Ceres has been estimated as
500,000 years !

See Astrobiology
.. 2022 May;22(5):509-519. doi: 10.1089/ast.2021.0080. Epub 2022 Apr 21.

The Radiation Environment of Ceres and Implications for Surface Sampling

Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: alt.astronomy,alt.fan.heinlein,rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: The Race to Colonize Mars Perpetuates a Dangerous Religion
Date: Mon, 1 May 2023 19:50:26 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Mon, 1 May 2023 23:50 UTC

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message news:u2pigp$dgft$1@dont-email.me...

On 24/04/2023 18:23, a425couple wrote:

>
> And you figure, making huge nets of carbon fiber, to pull together
> enough 'material' to make our new shelters protected from
> radiation is reasonably cheap and easy.
>
Well no but then the levels of radiation out at the Asterid Belt are
pretty low and of course there is a recipe. If you want something that
is well shielded. Take one medium size asteroud , hollow it out , give
it some spin and voila you have a habitat with gravity that is
resistant to most impacts. This is what makes the Asteroid belt so nice,
lots of useful stuff already in orbit that you can move using high
efficiency ion thrusters.

---------------------

We should recruit astronauts from the Army instead of the Air Force so they
will know how to build protective shelters with shovels and sandbags.

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