https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)

Lou

On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:59:53 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> > https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)

E-bikes seem to be having a bit of popularity here. I wonder how long that will last.

Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
>> https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/

With Shimano, Brose, Yamaha, Bosch around ... did the French
conglomerate, with no recent bicycling experience, build this on their
own? They seem a bit late to the show.

> Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)

They bought up SWF, iirc. Worth a try since Bosch wipers, Made in
Romania, aren't exactly cheap, either.

And, should anyone spot them ... bring me a size L, please;-)
<https://cyclingindustry.news/container-of-127-giant-electric-bikes-emptied-on-a12/>

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 07:47:11 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/

Gee, if someone would invent an automatic steering system a "cyclist"
wouldn't have to do anything at all (:-) Just sit there.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 1:47:14 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
I have an automatic 8sp hub gearbox from Shimano, full auto, not that cut down rider assisted auto on the DuraAce. It is basically a Nexus Premium 8 speed box with an external stepper motor. The real magic lies in the computer which operates the box according to selectable programs. Components and a photo essay:
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html

I also have a Bafang/8FUN BBS midpoint motor, in my version operated by a control box which offers 9 "gears", each just being a faster rate of current consumption, which is why in descriptions of using it I stress the concept of the Coulomb, which is a natural limit to ebikes on hills or heavily loaded ebikes. I operate the Bafang with a program that gives a five-"gear" spread across the power range, into a Rohloff 14sp box. I've written elsewhere that the Rohloff is overkill, but I keep it because it is bulletproof. However, with a torquey electric motor you don't need 14 speeds, never mind 14x9 or 14x5 or 14x?.

Seems to me that with a 48V supply, the Valeo will be pretty torquey, and seven speeds could be enough for most circumstances.

Andre Jute
Informed opinion.

On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 4:46:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:59:53 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> > > https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
> > > --
> > > Andrew Muzi
> > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)
> E-bikes seem to be having a bit of popularity here. I wonder how long that will last.

Here they are taking over man powered bikes for all kind of riding except race/road and mountain biking. I live close to the hilly part of the Netherlands and I ride there often. In the past you didn't see utility/leisure cyclist there. Now with the Ebikes there are a lot of them. Good for them.

Lou

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 4:46:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:59:53 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
> > > > --
> > > > Andrew Muzi
> > > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > > Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)
> > E-bikes seem to be having a bit of popularity here. I wonder how long that will last.
> Here they are taking over man powered bikes for all kind of riding except race/road and mountain biking. I live close to the hilly part of the Netherlands and I ride there often. In the past you didn't see utility/leisure cyclist there. Now with the Ebikes there are a lot of them. Good for them.

I am not so sure. Using power to climb hills isn't allowing you to physically progress is it?

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:07:38 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 4:46:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:59:53 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
> > > > > --
> > > > > Andrew Muzi
> > > > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > > > Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)
> > > E-bikes seem to be having a bit of popularity here. I wonder how long that will last.
> > Here they are taking over man powered bikes for all kind of riding except race/road and mountain biking. I live close to the hilly part of the Netherlands and I ride there often. In the past you didn't see utility/leisure cyclist there. Now with the Ebikes there are a lot of them. Good for them.
> I am not so sure. Using power to climb hills isn't allowing you to physically progress is it?

They are not that interested in that.

Lou

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:05:26 AM UTC-8, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> Am Sat, 19 Feb 2022 00:24:19 -0800 (PST) schrieb Lou Holtman
> <lou.h...@gmail.com>:
> >On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 4:46:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:59:53 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> >> > > https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
> >> > > --
> >> > > Andrew Muzi
> >> > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >> > Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)
> >> E-bikes seem to be having a bit of popularity here. I wonder how long that will last.
> >
> > Here they are taking over man powered bikes for all kind of riding except
> > race/road and mountain biking. I live close to the hilly part of the Netherlands
> > and I ride there often.
> Funny. I didn't know that the Netherlands have a hilly part. Most of the
> land is only a few metres above sea level.
>
> That hilly part is very small. It is a tiny area in the south of the
> country, near Aachen, almost an exclave. A bicycle ride from the
> beginning of the non-flat part to the highest moutain (322 m,
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaalserberg>) is quite short (35 km).
>
> <https://brouter.de/brouter-web/#map=10/50.7022/5.8200/standard&lonlats=5.778122,50.953654;6.020832,50.754722&profile=fastbike>
>
> For comparison, last year I visited the second highest hill in my
> region, which isn't really hilly, going from ~60 above sea level to
> about 523 m.
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20210330/20210330.jpg >
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelsberg_(Eifel)>
>
> In another ride, I rode up to the top of the hill (586 m).
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20211018/karte2.jpg>
>
> <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20210330/2021-03-30.png>
> > In the past you didn't see utility/leisure cyclist there.
> > Now with the Ebikes there are a lot of them. Good for them.
> In the past I saw a lot of utility/leisure cyclists in the area I have
> to cross, in order to get from ~50 m to ~350 m. It is a ~30 km ride
> from here.
>
> Now I see quite a many of these cyclists having switched from bicycles
> to Ebikes. Bad for them. Bad for us, too, for obvious reasons.
>
> Doing the remaining 20 km distance from 350 m to 580 m, I see mostly
> people using road bikes like mine, few utility cyclists on real bicycles
> and even fewer Ebikes, most of them of styled like off-road motorcycles.
>
> --
> Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
Although I wouldn't call the San Francisco Bay area hilly, since going east we have the Sierra Nevada and the Rocky Mountains, Mt Hamilton is 1,300 meters, Mt. Diablo is 1,173 meters and My Tamalpias is 786 meters. The intervening peaks are not up to these levels but riding up these peaks is necessary to be called a climber. In general the grades are what I would call mild since weather stations and observatories were installed when components were carried to the top by mule train. So 7% is the average grade and very few and short steep sections where the majority of the mule team would be on lesser grades. Around the immediate area are a lot of 9,10 11. and 12% climbs. At the moment I am carrying my winter weight so these are little more than torture. But the end of spring will see me back down to my recommended weight. The hills in San Francisco can be staggering. 21% in a couple of cases. While going up these is difficult it is rather scary going down since over braking will flip you ass over teakettle. And at the bottom of every one of these is a stop light.

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 2:38:49 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:07:38 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 4:46:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:59:53 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Andrew Muzi
> > > > > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > > > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > > > > Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)
> > > > E-bikes seem to be having a bit of popularity here. I wonder how long that will last.
> > > Here they are taking over man powered bikes for all kind of riding except race/road and mountain biking. I live close to the hilly part of the Netherlands and I ride there often. In the past you didn't see utility/leisure cyclist there. Now with the Ebikes there are a lot of them. Good for them.
> > I am not so sure. Using power to climb hills isn't allowing you to physically progress is it?
> They are not that interested in that.

If you weren't interested in improving why would you take a route that can flatten your batteries in a single hard climb?

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:19:43 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 2:38:49 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:07:38 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 4:46:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:59:53 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Andrew Muzi
> > > > > > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > > > > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > > > > > Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)
> > > > > E-bikes seem to be having a bit of popularity here. I wonder how long that will last.
> > > > Here they are taking over man powered bikes for all kind of riding except race/road and mountain biking. I live close to the hilly part of the Netherlands and I ride there often. In the past you didn't see utility/leisure cyclist there. Now with the Ebikes there are a lot of them. Good for them.
> > > I am not so sure. Using power to climb hills isn't allowing you to physically progress is it?
> > They are not that interested in that.
> If you weren't interested in improving why would you take a route that can flatten your batteries in a single hard climb?

Just for the scenery, they have to go somewhere, enjoying the company. BTW we have no climb that flatten the batterie in a single hard climb. We have hills.

Lou

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 5:18:19 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:05:26 AM UTC-8, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> > Am Sat, 19 Feb 2022 00:24:19 -0800 (PST) schrieb Lou Holtman
> > <lou.h...@gmail.com>:
> > >On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 4:46:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:59:53 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> > > https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
> > >> > > --
> > >> > > Andrew Muzi
> > >> > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > >> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > >> > Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)
> > >> E-bikes seem to be having a bit of popularity here. I wonder how long that will last.
> > >
> > > Here they are taking over man powered bikes for all kind of riding except
> > > race/road and mountain biking. I live close to the hilly part of the Netherlands
> > > and I ride there often.
> > Funny. I didn't know that the Netherlands have a hilly part. Most of the
> > land is only a few metres above sea level.
> >
> > That hilly part is very small. It is a tiny area in the south of the
> > country, near Aachen, almost an exclave. A bicycle ride from the
> > beginning of the non-flat part to the highest moutain (322 m,
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaalserberg>) is quite short (35 km).
> >
> > <https://brouter.de/brouter-web/#map=10/50.7022/5.8200/standard&lonlats=5.778122,50.953654;6.020832,50.754722&profile=fastbike>
> >
> > For comparison, last year I visited the second highest hill in my
> > region, which isn't really hilly, going from ~60 above sea level to
> > about 523 m.
> >
> > <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20210330/20210330.jpg >
> >
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelsberg_(Eifel)>
> >
> > In another ride, I rode up to the top of the hill (586 m).
> >
> > <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20211018/karte2.jpg>
> >
> > <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20210330/2021-03-30.png>
> > > In the past you didn't see utility/leisure cyclist there.
> > > Now with the Ebikes there are a lot of them. Good for them.
> > In the past I saw a lot of utility/leisure cyclists in the area I have
> > to cross, in order to get from ~50 m to ~350 m. It is a ~30 km ride
> > from here.
> >
> > Now I see quite a many of these cyclists having switched from bicycles
> > to Ebikes. Bad for them. Bad for us, too, for obvious reasons.
> >
> > Doing the remaining 20 km distance from 350 m to 580 m, I see mostly
> > people using road bikes like mine, few utility cyclists on real bicycles
> > and even fewer Ebikes, most of them of styled like off-road motorcycles..
> >
> > --
> > Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
> Although I wouldn't call the San Francisco Bay area hilly, since going east we have the Sierra Nevada and the Rocky Mountains, Mt Hamilton is 1,300 meters, Mt. Diablo is 1,173 meters and My Tamalpias is 786 meters. The intervening peaks are not up to these levels but riding up these peaks is necessary to be called a climber. In general the grades are what I would call mild since weather stations and observatories were installed when components were carried to the top by mule train. So 7% is the average grade and very few and short steep sections where the majority of the mule team would be on lesser grades. Around the immediate area are a lot of 9,10 11. and 12% climbs. At the moment I am carrying my winter weight so these are little more than torture. But the end of spring will see me back down to my recommended weight. The hills in San Francisco can be staggering. 21% in a couple of cases. While going up these is difficult it is rather scary going down since over braking will flip you ass over teakettle. And at the bottom of every one of these is a stop light.

25 years ago when I was in San Francisco, I walked around in the downtown area. I purposely walked up and down the streets with stairs in their sidewalks. I thought that was cool. All of the hill streets were ONE WAY UP. None of the super steep city streets let you drive down the hills.

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:10:02 AM UTC+1, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 5:18:19 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:05:26 AM UTC-8, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> > > Am Sat, 19 Feb 2022 00:24:19 -0800 (PST) schrieb Lou Holtman
> > > <lou.h...@gmail.com>:
> > > >On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 4:46:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:59:53 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > >> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> > > >> > > https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
> > > >> > > --
> > > >> > > Andrew Muzi
> > > >> > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > >> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > > >> > Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)
> > > >> E-bikes seem to be having a bit of popularity here. I wonder how long that will last.
> > > >
> > > > Here they are taking over man powered bikes for all kind of riding except
> > > > race/road and mountain biking. I live close to the hilly part of the Netherlands
> > > > and I ride there often.
> > > Funny. I didn't know that the Netherlands have a hilly part. Most of the
> > > land is only a few metres above sea level.
> > >
> > > That hilly part is very small. It is a tiny area in the south of the
> > > country, near Aachen, almost an exclave. A bicycle ride from the
> > > beginning of the non-flat part to the highest moutain (322 m,
> > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaalserberg>) is quite short (35 km).
> > >
> > > <https://brouter.de/brouter-web/#map=10/50.7022/5.8200/standard&lonlats=5.778122,50.953654;6.020832,50.754722&profile=fastbike>
> > >
> > > For comparison, last year I visited the second highest hill in my
> > > region, which isn't really hilly, going from ~60 above sea level to
> > > about 523 m.
> > >
> > > <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20210330/20210330.jpg >
> > >
> > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelsberg_(Eifel)>
> > >
> > > In another ride, I rode up to the top of the hill (586 m).
> > >
> > > <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20211018/karte2.jpg>
> > >
> > > <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20210330/2021-03-30.png>
> > > > In the past you didn't see utility/leisure cyclist there.
> > > > Now with the Ebikes there are a lot of them. Good for them.
> > > In the past I saw a lot of utility/leisure cyclists in the area I have
> > > to cross, in order to get from ~50 m to ~350 m. It is a ~30 km ride
> > > from here.
> > >
> > > Now I see quite a many of these cyclists having switched from bicycles
> > > to Ebikes. Bad for them. Bad for us, too, for obvious reasons.
> > >
> > > Doing the remaining 20 km distance from 350 m to 580 m, I see mostly
> > > people using road bikes like mine, few utility cyclists on real bicycles
> > > and even fewer Ebikes, most of them of styled like off-road motorcycles.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
> > Although I wouldn't call the San Francisco Bay area hilly, since going east we have the Sierra Nevada and the Rocky Mountains, Mt Hamilton is 1,300 meters, Mt. Diablo is 1,173 meters and My Tamalpias is 786 meters. The intervening peaks are not up to these levels but riding up these peaks is necessary to be called a climber. In general the grades are what I would call mild since weather stations and observatories were installed when components were carried to the top by mule train. So 7% is the average grade and very few and short steep sections where the majority of the mule team would be on lesser grades. Around the immediate area are a lot of 9,10 11. and 12% climbs. At the moment I am carrying my winter weight so these are little more than torture. But the end of spring will see me back down to my recommended weight. The hills in San Francisco can be staggering. 21% in a couple of cases. While going up these is difficult it is rather scary going down since over braking will flip you ass over teakettle. And at the bottom of every one of these is a stop light.
> 25 years ago when I was in San Francisco, I walked around in the downtown area. I purposely walked up and down the streets with stairs in their sidewalks. I thought that was cool. All of the hill streets were ONE WAY UP. None of the super steep city streets let you drive down the hills.

Last time I was there I wanted to cycle Lombard street. Looking for it I ended up on top with that nice view (towards Coit Tower?). I had to descent first to go up. I don't remember if it was a one way street but all the cars gave me a dirty look; down and up.

Lou

On 2/19/2022 5:19 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 2:38:49 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:07:38 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 4:46:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:59:53 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
>>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>>> Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)
>>>>> E-bikes seem to be having a bit of popularity here. I wonder how long that will last.
>>>> Here they are taking over man powered bikes for all kind of riding except race/road and mountain biking. I live close to the hilly part of the Netherlands and I ride there often. In the past you didn't see utility/leisure cyclist there. Now with the Ebikes there are a lot of them. Good for them.
>>> I am not so sure. Using power to climb hills isn't allowing you to physically progress is it?
>> They are not that interested in that.
>
> If you weren't interested in improving why would you take a route that can flatten your batteries in a single hard climb?
>

??
Why does anyone do anything? They chose that route, which is
fine.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/20/2022 3:09 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> 25 years ago when I was in San Francisco, I walked around in the downtown area. I purposely walked up and down the streets with stairs in their sidewalks. I thought that was cool. All of the hill streets were ONE WAY UP. None of the super steep city streets let you drive down the hills.

Try Pittsburgh!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steps_of_Pittsburgh

including this street:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_Avenue

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:14:22 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:19:43 AM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 2:38:49 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:07:38 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 4:46:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:59:53 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > > > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > > https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Andrew Muzi
> > > > > > > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > > > > > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > > > > > > Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)
> > > > > > E-bikes seem to be having a bit of popularity here. I wonder how long that will last.
> > > > > Here they are taking over man powered bikes for all kind of riding except race/road and mountain biking. I live close to the hilly part of the Netherlands and I ride there often. In the past you didn't see utility/leisure cyclist there. Now with the Ebikes there are a lot of them. Good for them.
> > > > I am not so sure. Using power to climb hills isn't allowing you to physically progress is it?
> > > They are not that interested in that.
> > If you weren't interested in improving why would you take a route that can flatten your batteries in a single hard climb?
> Just for the scenery, they have to go somewhere, enjoying the company. BTW we have no climb that flatten the batterie in a single hard climb. We have hills.

I just think that if you're a sports rider that you should work on your physical abilities rather than buy them. But there are horses for courses and whatever people want to do they should have the right to pursue.

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 1:31:46 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 9:10:02 AM UTC+1, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 5:18:19 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:05:26 AM UTC-8, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> > > > Am Sat, 19 Feb 2022 00:24:19 -0800 (PST) schrieb Lou Holtman
> > > > <lou.h...@gmail.com>:
> > > > >On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 4:46:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:59:53 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > >> > On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > >> > > https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
> > > > >> > > --
> > > > >> > > Andrew Muzi
> > > > >> > > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > > > >> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > > > >> > Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)
> > > > >> E-bikes seem to be having a bit of popularity here. I wonder how long that will last.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here they are taking over man powered bikes for all kind of riding except
> > > > > race/road and mountain biking. I live close to the hilly part of the Netherlands
> > > > > and I ride there often.
> > > > Funny. I didn't know that the Netherlands have a hilly part. Most of the
> > > > land is only a few metres above sea level.
> > > >
> > > > That hilly part is very small. It is a tiny area in the south of the
> > > > country, near Aachen, almost an exclave. A bicycle ride from the
> > > > beginning of the non-flat part to the highest moutain (322 m,
> > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaalserberg>) is quite short (35 km)..
> > > >
> > > > <https://brouter.de/brouter-web/#map=10/50.7022/5.8200/standard&lonlats=5.778122,50.953654;6.020832,50.754722&profile=fastbike>
> > > >
> > > > For comparison, last year I visited the second highest hill in my
> > > > region, which isn't really hilly, going from ~60 above sea level to
> > > > about 523 m.
> > > >
> > > > <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20210330/20210330.jpg >
> > > >
> > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelsberg_(Eifel)>
> > > >
> > > > In another ride, I rode up to the top of the hill (586 m).
> > > >
> > > > <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20211018/karte2.jpg>
> > > >
> > > > <https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20210330/2021-03-30.png>
> > > > > In the past you didn't see utility/leisure cyclist there.
> > > > > Now with the Ebikes there are a lot of them. Good for them.
> > > > In the past I saw a lot of utility/leisure cyclists in the area I have
> > > > to cross, in order to get from ~50 m to ~350 m. It is a ~30 km ride
> > > > from here.
> > > >
> > > > Now I see quite a many of these cyclists having switched from bicycles
> > > > to Ebikes. Bad for them. Bad for us, too, for obvious reasons.
> > > >
> > > > Doing the remaining 20 km distance from 350 m to 580 m, I see mostly
> > > > people using road bikes like mine, few utility cyclists on real bicycles
> > > > and even fewer Ebikes, most of them of styled like off-road motorcycles.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
> > > Although I wouldn't call the San Francisco Bay area hilly, since going east we have the Sierra Nevada and the Rocky Mountains, Mt Hamilton is 1,300 meters, Mt. Diablo is 1,173 meters and My Tamalpias is 786 meters. The intervening peaks are not up to these levels but riding up these peaks is necessary to be called a climber. In general the grades are what I would call mild since weather stations and observatories were installed when components were carried to the top by mule train. So 7% is the average grade and very few and short steep sections where the majority of the mule team would be on lesser grades. Around the immediate area are a lot of 9,10 11. and 12% climbs. At the moment I am carrying my winter weight so these are little more than torture. But the end of spring will see me back down to my recommended weight. The hills in San Francisco can be staggering. 21% in a couple of cases. While going up these is difficult it is rather scary going down since over braking will flip you ass over teakettle. And at the bottom of every one of these is a stop light.
> > 25 years ago when I was in San Francisco, I walked around in the downtown area. I purposely walked up and down the streets with stairs in their sidewalks. I thought that was cool. All of the hill streets were ONE WAY UP. None of the super steep city streets let you drive down the hills.
> Last time I was there I wanted to cycle Lombard street. Looking for it I ended up on top with that nice view (towards Coit Tower?). I had to descent first to go up. I don't remember if it was a one way street but all the cars gave me a dirty look; down and up.

Lombard IS one-way since there is so much tourist traffic on it. (Called, "the crookedest street in the world") But the really hard climbs are normal two-way streets. If you're in shape and have the gears it is absolutely amazing how steep a pitch you can climb. In Marin County and the town of Novato there are several 23% climbs that I completed. The top 50 feet of Mt. Diablo is 30% I believe. On the north end of the Golden Gate Bridge, There is part of Conzelman Rd up to the ocean outlook that is 15 or 16% and after the Lookout Point the road turns one way and has an 18% downgrade that bicycles occasionally climb. I was just looking at a map of San Francisco trying to find the street that I had a lot of trouble on when I was first recovering but can't find it. I thought it was the interchange of 37th St., 37th Rd and 37th Blvd. but that has to be wrong. What appears to be where I was is 17th street but using Google Maps it doesn't look correct. In any case, from Aquatic Park there is a bike trail that must be about 15%, The majority of people walk up it but I can't remember ever walking up that myself. You only have to hold that for 100 yards and it goes flat and then downhill to the Marina. In one of the organized centuries after a lunch stop is a 23% climb for an entire mile I believe and most people walk it but I rode it bottom to top without even a pause.

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 8:21:48 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/19/2022 5:19 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 2:38:49 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:07:38 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 12:24:22 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 4:46:26 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:59:53 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 2:47:14 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>> https://cyclingindustry.news/valeos-motor-and-7-speed-auto-gearbox-enters-production/
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Andrew Muzi
> >>>>>>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >>>>>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >>>>>> Hmm, automatic gearbox, interesting. I know Valeo from their excellent window wipers. Close enough ;-)
> >>>>> E-bikes seem to be having a bit of popularity here. I wonder how long that will last.
> >>>> Here they are taking over man powered bikes for all kind of riding except race/road and mountain biking. I live close to the hilly part of the Netherlands and I ride there often. In the past you didn't see utility/leisure cyclist there. Now with the Ebikes there are a lot of them. Good for them.
> >>> I am not so sure. Using power to climb hills isn't allowing you to physically progress is it?
> >> They are not that interested in that.
> >
> > If you weren't interested in improving why would you take a route that can flatten your batteries in a single hard climb?
> >
> ??
> Why does anyone do anything? They chose that route, which is
> fine.

That wasn't a criticism of what people do, it was wondering why people do those things. The people riding E-bikes around here look like they couldn't ride a normal bike.

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 8:59:33 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/20/2022 3:09 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > 25 years ago when I was in San Francisco, I walked around in the downtown area. I purposely walked up and down the streets with stairs in their sidewalks. I thought that was cool. All of the hill streets were ONE WAY UP. None of the super steep city streets let you drive down the hills.
> Try Pittsburgh!
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steps_of_Pittsburgh
>
> including this street:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_Avenue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK8MhLihFlg