I recall Andrew saying that the Record and Chorus 11 speeds were not compatible with the Centaur and Veloce but what about the Potenza?

On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 8:23:43 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> I recall Andrew saying that the Record and Chorus 11 speeds were not compatible with the Centaur and Veloce but what about the Potenza?

I used a Potenza RD with a Super Record 11 sp shifter without problems.

Lou

On 2/21/2022 1:23 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> I recall Andrew saying that the Record and Chorus 11 speeds were not compatible with the Centaur and Veloce but what about the Potenza?
>

Eleven CEN, VEL and POT lever bodies shift CEN, VEL and POT
changers; mix-n-match within them.
Eleven CHR and REC use the RE-300/301 body which shifts
REC/CHR changers but not other models.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 9:14:20 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/21/2022 1:23 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > I recall Andrew saying that the Record and Chorus 11 speeds were not compatible with the Centaur and Veloce but what about the Potenza?
> >
> Eleven CEN, VEL and POT lever bodies shift CEN, VEL and POT
> changers; mix-n-match within them.
> Eleven CHR and REC use the RE-300/301 body which shifts
> REC/CHR changers but not other models.
>
> --

Huh? How could I shifted a Potenza RD with Super Record shifters without problems? For a couple of years I replaced my short cage Super Record RD once a year with a Potenza long caged RD when I went to the mountains with big climbs when I a needed 11 speed 32t cassette. Later I bought a Super Record long cage RD which is still on that bike.

Lou

On 2/21/2022 2:10 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 8:23:43 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> I recall Andrew saying that the Record and Chorus 11 speeds were not compatible with the Centaur and Veloce but what about the Potenza?
>
> I used a Potenza RD with a Super Record 11 sp shifter without problems.
>
> Lou
>

We were originally advised by Campagnolo that REC-CHR were
one intercompatible format and the other follow-on Eleven
series were a different format. I just talked with
Campagnolo USA's head tech who said, uh, right. We did say
that, sorry.

Centaur is incompatible for cable travel (only CEN Ergo with
CEN changers) but the Potenza shares cable travel with
REC-CHR. I did not know that until just now.

Sweeping up details in the corners, the original caution
against POT changers with REC-CHR Ergos was a concern that
the lighter body return spring would be slow in a rapid
multiple-gears-higher shift, possibly allowing cable casings
to unseat. That turned out to be not a problem in practice.

And thank you. But not for your post, I would not have
called to ask about it.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/21/2022 2:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/21/2022 1:23 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> I recall Andrew saying that the Record and Chorus 11
>> speeds were not compatible with the Centaur and Veloce but
>> what about the Potenza?
>>
>
> Eleven CEN, VEL and POT lever bodies shift CEN, VEL and POT
> changers; mix-n-match within them.
> Eleven CHR and REC use the RE-300/301 body which shifts
> REC/CHR changers but not other models.
>

This is not correct see my other updated note nearby. THX.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:23:43 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> I recall Andrew saying that the Record and Chorus 11 speeds were not compatible with the Centaur and Veloce but what about the Potenza?

OK, I finally found a reference to the Campy interchangeability. I will assume that Veloce is the little brother of Centaur and works identically. It appears that the shift mechanism for the Record etc. 11 speeds is referred to as Ergo-Ultra whereas the mechanism for the Centaur and I suppose the Veloce is Ergopower Powershift.

I was unable to discover what this difference actually is but it is plainly a change in the old 10 speed ratio from levers to derailleurs of 1.9:1

One of the weird things about Campy that is different from other groups is that the movement of the rear derailleur is different across the range of the rear derailleur. This is because of the derailleur swinging in an arc. Campy makes up for this at the Cassette whereas Shimano makes up for it inside the levers.

On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 12:34:20 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/21/2022 2:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 2/21/2022 1:23 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> I recall Andrew saying that the Record and Chorus 11
> >> speeds were not compatible with the Centaur and Veloce but
> >> what about the Potenza?
> >>
> >
> > Eleven CEN, VEL and POT lever bodies shift CEN, VEL and POT
> > changers; mix-n-match within them.
> > Eleven CHR and REC use the RE-300/301 body which shifts
> > REC/CHR changers but not other models.
> >
> This is not correct see my other updated note nearby. THX.

Apparently there were TWO types of Potenza. "The Potenza 11 Speed rear derailleur is NOT designed and function with (and therefore is not compatible with) Ergopower Ultra-shift" / Power-shift commands from other drive train and bar end commands not marked by the letter B".

This is as clear as snot. I can't tell if that means that the rear derailleur would work with the Centaur levers if it is marked with the letter B or if the levers themselves must have the letter B on them somewhere.

But it does seem to indicate that Centaur or Record levers may work with specific Potenza rear derailleurs.

On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 9:51:16 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 12:34:20 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 2/21/2022 2:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 2/21/2022 1:23 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >> I recall Andrew saying that the Record and Chorus 11
> > >> speeds were not compatible with the Centaur and Veloce but
> > >> what about the Potenza?
> > >>
> > >
> > > Eleven CEN, VEL and POT lever bodies shift CEN, VEL and POT
> > > changers; mix-n-match within them.
> > > Eleven CHR and REC use the RE-300/301 body which shifts
> > > REC/CHR changers but not other models.
> > >
> > This is not correct see my other updated note nearby. THX.
> Apparently there were TWO types of Potenza. "The Potenza 11 Speed rear derailleur is NOT designed and function with (and therefore is not compatible with) Ergopower Ultra-shift" / Power-shift commands from other drive train and bar end commands not marked by the letter B".
>
> This is as clear as snot. I can't tell if that means that the rear derailleur would work with the Centaur levers if it is marked with the letter B or if the levers themselves must have the letter B on them somewhere.
>
> But it does seem to indicate that Centaur or Record levers may work with specific Potenza rear derailleurs.

Christ, I shared my experience which is backup by Andrew after he consulted his sources and yet you make it complicated. If you ask a question but you really don’t need an answer please tell us from the beginning. Two types of Potenza? Never heard of that. They where only made for a short time.

Lou

On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 3:09:10 PM UTC-6, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 9:51:16 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 12:34:20 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 2/21/2022 2:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 2/21/2022 1:23 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >> I recall Andrew saying that the Record and Chorus 11
> > > >> speeds were not compatible with the Centaur and Veloce but
> > > >> what about the Potenza?
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Eleven CEN, VEL and POT lever bodies shift CEN, VEL and POT
> > > > changers; mix-n-match within them.
> > > > Eleven CHR and REC use the RE-300/301 body which shifts
> > > > REC/CHR changers but not other models.
> > > >
> > > This is not correct see my other updated note nearby. THX.
> > Apparently there were TWO types of Potenza. "The Potenza 11 Speed rear derailleur is NOT designed and function with (and therefore is not compatible with) Ergopower Ultra-shift" / Power-shift commands from other drive train and bar end commands not marked by the letter B".
> >
> > This is as clear as snot. I can't tell if that means that the rear derailleur would work with the Centaur levers if it is marked with the letter B or if the levers themselves must have the letter B on them somewhere.
> >
> > But it does seem to indicate that Centaur or Record levers may work with specific Potenza rear derailleurs.
> Christ, I shared my experience which is backup by Andrew after he consulted his sources and yet you make it complicated. If you ask a question but you really don’t need an answer please tell us from the beginning. Two types of Potenza? Never heard of that. They where only made for a short time.
>
> Lou

Lou!!!!!!!!!! It seems you are finally catching onto what the rest of us have been saying now for about 10 years. "Tommy is.....(fill in any negative word you like, it will be 100% correct)".

On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 1:09:10 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 9:51:16 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 12:34:20 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 2/21/2022 2:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 2/21/2022 1:23 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >> I recall Andrew saying that the Record and Chorus 11
> > > >> speeds were not compatible with the Centaur and Veloce but
> > > >> what about the Potenza?
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Eleven CEN, VEL and POT lever bodies shift CEN, VEL and POT
> > > > changers; mix-n-match within them.
> > > > Eleven CHR and REC use the RE-300/301 body which shifts
> > > > REC/CHR changers but not other models.
> > > >
> > > This is not correct see my other updated note nearby. THX.
> > Apparently there were TWO types of Potenza. "The Potenza 11 Speed rear derailleur is NOT designed and function with (and therefore is not compatible with) Ergopower Ultra-shift" / Power-shift commands from other drive train and bar end commands not marked by the letter B".
> >
> > This is as clear as snot. I can't tell if that means that the rear derailleur would work with the Centaur levers if it is marked with the letter B or if the levers themselves must have the letter B on them somewhere.
> >
> > But it does seem to indicate that Centaur or Record levers may work with specific Potenza rear derailleurs.
> Christ, I shared my experience which is backup by Andrew after he consulted his sources and yet you make it complicated. If you ask a question but you really don’t need an answer please tell us from the beginning. Two types of Potenza? Never heard of that. They where only made for a short time.

Lou, didn't you follow the conversation? I had been searching for information on Campy compatibility and finally found it. When I returned to publish it, my reader did not show that there had been additional entries until I published that.

That doesn't change the fact of the rather confusing comments on the Campy page.

Why is this important? Because I haven't found a Centaur 11 speed derailleur set to buy. And I think that I might have a customer on the line for my Douglas Titanium and I tripped across a Colnago C50 for a price I liked and won the auction. The C50 has all of the improvements that made it more reliable than the C40's I had been riding for years. I need an 11-speed rear derailleur because the crank I have is a 52-39 so to get gears for around here, I need a 32 on the back. If there were a model of Potenza that would work, it might be easier to find since they wouldn't work for Record.

There is always the possibility of installing the Dura Ace Di2 on the C40 and making the CLX3.0 a Campy 10 speed. The CLX is just sitting here and no one seems interested. Hell, the components are new from Team CCC, the frame and fork I bought in 2018 and it had never been assembled so it is a like new frame as well.

The CLX may be slightly heavier than the C50 but not much.

On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:27:11 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:

> Lou, didn't you follow the conversation? I had been searching for information on Campy compatibility and finally found it. When I returned to publish it, my reader did not show that there had been additional entries until I published that.

Yes I did. Your question was: '.....Record and Chorus 11 speeds were not compatible with the Centaur and Veloce but what about the Potenza?' The answer is 'Yes Potenza is compatible' by my own experience backed up by Andrew. There is not Chinese about that, don't make things up.

Lou

On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 4:27:11 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Why is this important? Because I haven't found a Centaur 11 speed derailleur set to buy.

I have several Centaur components on my 9 speed bikes. As well as Chorus and Veloce and Record. Record is only on the 10 speed bike though. I always thought Centaur was a good group.

On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 2:36:18 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:27:11 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>
> > Lou, didn't you follow the conversation? I had been searching for information on Campy compatibility and finally found it. When I returned to publish it, my reader did not show that there had been additional entries until I published that.
> Yes I did. Your question was: '.....Record and Chorus 11 speeds were not compatible with the Centaur and Veloce but what about the Potenza?' The answer is 'Yes Potenza is compatible' by my own experience backed up by Andrew.. There is not Chinese about that, don't make things up.

I misworded that - I wanted to know if the Centaur was compatible with Potenza. Your experience says no but the Campy compatibility page is a little questionable.

On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 4:23:08 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 2:36:18 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 11:27:11 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Lou, didn't you follow the conversation? I had been searching for information on Campy compatibility and finally found it. When I returned to publish it, my reader did not show that there had been additional entries until I published that.
> > Yes I did. Your question was: '.....Record and Chorus 11 speeds were not compatible with the Centaur and Veloce but what about the Potenza?' The answer is 'Yes Potenza is compatible' by my own experience backed up by Andrew. There is not Chinese about that, don't make things up.
> I misworded that - I wanted to know if the Centaur was compatible with Potenza. Your experience says no but the Campy compatibility page is a little questionable.

Looking at the Campy page 2.1 again under compatibility of rear derailleurs it shows that the Potenza and the Centaur are supposedly both using Power Shift, But the Super Record is using Ergo Ultrashift and the Record and Chorus are using Ergo H11.

This does not seem to match the experience of Lou. Though it also says that it will work but with reduced performance which makes me think that the difference may be nothing more than spring tension on the rear derailleurs and levers. What do you think?