Lou Holtman <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 10:59:49 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 2/23/2022 3:08 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:49:27 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 2:08 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 7:41:41 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> People speak with awe about the beauty of Campy's Delta brakes, despite
>>>>>>>> their functional problems.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To me, these are much prettier:
>>>>>>>> https://tririg.com/products/omega-one-aero-brake
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm curious how they work in practice. (Not that I plan on buying a set.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is a lever like all brakes.
>>>>>> That's astonishingly simplistic!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There certainly are significant differences between various rim brakes.
>>>>>> "All brakes" are not the same at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>
>>>>> Look at a V brake. Cable pulls at one end of the lever at a certain
>>>>> distance from the pivot, the brake pad touches the rim at another
>>>>> distance from the pivot. That is a lever. All other designs are alse
>>>>> levers, only in disguise.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>>>> True but for example difference between dual pivots and V brakes vs CX
>>>> canti for example quite a gap in performance.
>>>>
>>>> And even then some dual pivots work better than others, you can buy
>>>> expensive light brakes that barely work, for the hill climb bike.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>
>>> Lou makes a very good point.
>>> The differences you note are differences in
>>> dimensions/leverage (or in some cases progressive action)
>>> not basic principle.
>>>
>> Not really sure what Lou is arguing to be honest since he notes the
>> performance of the V Brake, but it’s fairly clear that different brakes
>> have which as he notes are all levers, but performance will differ.
>>> For example a Weinmann 500 with standard road lever is a
>>> perfectly acceptable brake. Same materials, same small
>>> parts, same design ultra long Weinmann 1080 is a sloppy
>>> noodle in use. Distance pivot to shoe is unfavorable.
>>>
>> Even essentially similar designs will differ, the difference between a high
>> end V brake and the cheap plastic V brake things on BSO to take to extreme.
>>
>>
>> Roger
>
> Different designs make different choices but basically they are just
> levers. Frank asked how the mentioned brakes work. I answered they are
> levers. I’m arguing nothing. Lets not make this more complicated than it
> is. They look nice and aero. Probably that was one of the requirements
> when they designed them.
>
> Lou
>

Fair enough!

Apparently they are light/aero and decent brakes but expensive!

Roger Merriman

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 6:58:19 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 19:50:51 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I ride on public roads and have a front brake. Always have.
>> Well, not a pure Fixie then (:-)
>>
>> I was actually run into by a guy on a pure Fixie, no brakes at all,
>> and I was on my bike and stopped at a stoplight. We got to talking and
>> it turned out he was a Bike Messenger and apparently rode daily in
>> Bangkok traffic and frankly I wondered how he did it. Maybe dragged
>> his feet a lot (:-)
>
> I've (sadly) never ridden a fixie, but one of my kids has, at Alpenrose.
>
> But as to "how he did it": I once asked a young guy on a fixie (in
> Washington DC) to show me
> his stopping technique. It was quite acrobatic, and consisted of hopping
> his rear wheel upward
> and sideways, skidding to a stop sideways. I was impressed by the
> athleticism. But I doubt he
> got more than a couple hundred miles out of a rear tire.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>

Have ridden a fixed trike, before now, in a park so slow speeds but that
was easy enough at those speeds to just push on the pedals and reverse etc.

The FG bike I had while I could stop it, it never felt natural mainly the
not freewheeling so I used the SS hub.

Roger Merriman.

Am 24.02.2022 um 05:46 schrieb Frank Krygowski:

> I've (sadly) never ridden a fixie, but one of my kids has, at Alpenrose.
>
> But as to "how he did it": I once asked a young guy on a fixie (in Washington DC) to show me
> his stopping technique. It was quite acrobatic, and consisted of hopping his rear wheel upward
> and sideways, skidding to a stop sideways. I was impressed by the athleticism. But I doubt he
> got more than a couple hundred miles out of a rear tire.

I once (as a kid) accidentally made a stop like that on my normal bike:
I was overtaking a (winery) tractor with two trailers on the downhill at
the edge of our village. Suddenly, he turned left into a farm track
into the vinyards. I emergency braked, the rear wheel locked and came
round to the right. So I was sliding sideways when I impacted the
(stationary) tractor, with the chest hitting the engine between the
front and the rear wheels.
The impact almost toppled the tractor but nothing happened other than
the impact knocking the wind out of my chest: no injury, no damage to
either bicycle or tractor.

On 2/23/2022 8:58 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 19:50:51 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2/23/2022 7:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:41:37 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> People speak with awe about the beauty of Campy's Delta brakes, despite
>>>> their functional problems.
>>>>
>>>> To me, these are much prettier:
>>>> https://tririg.com/products/omega-one-aero-brake
>>>>
>>>> I'm curious how they work in practice. (Not that I plan on buying a set.)
>>>
>>> Well you should. The advert assures the potential buyer that the brake
>>> will even make the bike faster (:-)
>>>
>>> But faster then what? Andrew's Fixie with no brakes at all?
>>>
>>
>> I ride on public roads and have a front brake. Always have.
>
> Well, not a pure Fixie then (:-)
>
> I was actually run into by a guy on a pure Fixie, no brakes at all,
> and I was on my bike and stopped at a stoplight. We got to talking and
> it turned out he was a Bike Messenger and apparently rode daily in
> Bangkok traffic and frankly I wondered how he did it. Maybe dragged
> his feet a lot (:-)
>
>

Resisting the pedal pressure can stop a bike in 4~5 meters
from city cycling speeds for a young fit rider. Trouble is,
traffic doesn't always allow 5 meters:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/FACEPLNT.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:05:33 -0600,
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 2/23/2022 8:58 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 19:50:51 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> On 2/23/2022 7:06 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:41:37 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> >>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> People speak with awe about the beauty of Campy's Delta
> >>>> brakes, despite their functional problems.
> >>>>
> >>>> To me, these are much prettier:
> >>>> https://tririg.com/products/omega-one-aero-brake
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm curious how they work in practice. (Not that I plan on
> >>>> buying a set.)
> >>>
> >>> Well you should. The advert assures the potential buyer that
> >>> the brake will even make the bike faster (:-)
> >>>
> >>> But faster then what? Andrew's Fixie with no brakes at all?
> >>
> >> I ride on public roads and have a front brake. Always have.

+1

> > Well, not a pure Fixie then (:-)

Well, that's a quibboleth.

> > I was actually run into by a guy on a pure Fixie, no brakes at
> > all, and I was on my bike and stopped at a stoplight. We got
> > to talking and it turned out he was a Bike Messenger and
> > apparently rode daily in Bangkok traffic and frankly I
> > wondered how he did it. Maybe dragged his feet a lot (:-)
>
> Resisting the pedal pressure can stop a bike in 4~5 meters from
> city cycling speeds for a young fit rider. Trouble is, traffic
> doesn't always allow 5 meters:
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/FACEPLNT.JPG

Ouch, that makes me squirm just looking at it.

I understand that some are able to stop relatively quickly by
hopping the rear wheel, locking the legs, and skidding the rear
tire on the pavement. I think Sheldon described the technique
somewhere on his magnificent site. I tried hard to learn how to
do this, but never managed it. Probably just as well for tire
life!

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:05:33 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/23/2022 8:58 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 19:50:51 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/23/2022 7:06 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:41:37 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> People speak with awe about the beauty of Campy's Delta brakes, despite
>>>>> their functional problems.
>>>>>
>>>>> To me, these are much prettier:
>>>>> https://tririg.com/products/omega-one-aero-brake
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm curious how they work in practice. (Not that I plan on buying a set.)
>>>>
>>>> Well you should. The advert assures the potential buyer that the brake
>>>> will even make the bike faster (:-)
>>>>
>>>> But faster then what? Andrew's Fixie with no brakes at all?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I ride on public roads and have a front brake. Always have.
>>
>> Well, not a pure Fixie then (:-)
>>
>> I was actually run into by a guy on a pure Fixie, no brakes at all,
>> and I was on my bike and stopped at a stoplight. We got to talking and
>> it turned out he was a Bike Messenger and apparently rode daily in
>> Bangkok traffic and frankly I wondered how he did it. Maybe dragged
>> his feet a lot (:-)
>>
>>
>
>Resisting the pedal pressure can stop a bike in 4~5 meters
>from city cycling speeds for a young fit rider. Trouble is,
>traffic doesn't always allow 5 meters:
>
>http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/FACEPLNT.JPG

And, you have to pedal going down hill. I had to pedal up the hill and
damned if I want to have to pedal to go down the hill (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.