I just noticed that someone on Ebay is selling Campy Athena components. I was under the impression that the levels were:

1. Super Record
2. Record
3. Chorus
4. Centaur
5. Veloce

When looking in the Campy stuff it didn't mention Athena. Since the components for sale are 11 speed it is a fairly newly manufactured group. Can anyone tell me about this stuff?

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 11:09:34 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> I just noticed that someone on Ebay is selling Campy Athena components. I was under the impression that the levels were:
>
> 1. Super Record
> 2. Record
> 3. Chorus
> 4. Centaur
> 5. Veloce
>
> When looking in the Campy stuff it didn't mention Athena. Since the components for sale are 11 speed it is a fairly newly manufactured group. Can anyone tell me about this stuff?

I just went to the Campy factory site and they don't even mention Veloce. So I assume that there are groups that are sold for purposes other than "racing bikes".

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 1:15:12 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 11:09:34 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > I just noticed that someone on Ebay is selling Campy Athena components. I was under the impression that the levels were:
> >
> > 1. Super Record
> > 2. Record
> > 3. Chorus
> > 4. Centaur
> > 5. Veloce
> >
> > When looking in the Campy stuff it didn't mention Athena. Since the components for sale are 11 speed it is a fairly newly manufactured group. Can anyone tell me about this stuff?
> I just went to the Campy factory site and they don't even mention Veloce. So I assume that there are groups that are sold for purposes other than "racing bikes".

GOOGLE is your friend. Just do a Google search on Athena and Veloce. I'm positive there is a vast universe of knowledge on the internet. You also forgot about Mirage. Lowest line of Campagnolo groups. I think Athena came around after I built up all my Campagnolo bikes with Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce. I might have a Mirage front derailleur on one bike too. All work just fine. Appearance and weight seems to be the only difference with modern Campagnolo.

On 2/23/2022 1:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> I just noticed that someone on Ebay is selling Campy Athena components. I was under the impression that the levels were:
>
> 1. Super Record
> 2. Record
> 3. Chorus
> 4. Centaur
> 5. Veloce
>
> When looking in the Campy stuff it didn't mention Athena. Since the components for sale are 11 speed it is a fairly newly manufactured group. Can anyone tell me about this stuff?
>

Which Athena?
Among Campagnolo's chronic management problems (such as not
stamping a part number on the component) they have a serious
aversion to new names. 'Record' has been overused for a
dozen things since 1960 for example.

Athena made its debut in 1988 just after the first Chorus
(1987), positioned below CHR with 6/7 speed SyncroII.
https://www.velobase.com/ViewGroup.aspx?GroupID=553c1882-3ff0-4441-961d-f5d0398b08c8

Another revision was Ergo-8 cassette.

Later 2010 version was a not-compatible-with REC/CHR Eleven
system with Campagnolo's last triple option:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/gun10ath.jpg

Triple crank in square taper, double in UT

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/23/2022 2:35 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 1:15:12 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 11:09:34 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> I just noticed that someone on Ebay is selling Campy Athena components. I was under the impression that the levels were:
>>>
>>> 1. Super Record
>>> 2. Record
>>> 3. Chorus
>>> 4. Centaur
>>> 5. Veloce
>>>
>>> When looking in the Campy stuff it didn't mention Athena. Since the components for sale are 11 speed it is a fairly newly manufactured group. Can anyone tell me about this stuff?
>> I just went to the Campy factory site and they don't even mention Veloce. So I assume that there are groups that are sold for purposes other than "racing bikes".
>
>
> GOOGLE is your friend. Just do a Google search on Athena and Veloce. I'm positive there is a vast universe of knowledge on the internet. You also forgot about Mirage. Lowest line of Campagnolo groups. I think Athena came around after I built up all my Campagnolo bikes with Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce. I might have a Mirage front derailleur on one bike too. All work just fine. Appearance and weight seems to be the only difference with modern Campagnolo.
>

The (relatively) modern set below Mirage was Avanti Ergo-8.
https://lfgss.microco.sm/api/v1/files/bf908e6f77c2501660cbffb559d0e5ee75359195.jpg

Athena was introduced a year before the first Centaur which
was a triple MTB set. Athena road and Centaur offroad
spanned several years together in the 1990s.

https://www.velobase.com/ViewGroup.aspx?GroupID=eb3aab75-6b90-482a-b690-98d3b4d743bb

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 2:52:31 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/23/2022 2:35 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 1:15:12 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 11:09:34 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> I just noticed that someone on Ebay is selling Campy Athena components. I was under the impression that the levels were:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Super Record
> >>> 2. Record
> >>> 3. Chorus
> >>> 4. Centaur
> >>> 5. Veloce
> >>>
> >>> When looking in the Campy stuff it didn't mention Athena. Since the components for sale are 11 speed it is a fairly newly manufactured group. Can anyone tell me about this stuff?
> >> I just went to the Campy factory site and they don't even mention Veloce. So I assume that there are groups that are sold for purposes other than "racing bikes".
> >
> >
> > GOOGLE is your friend. Just do a Google search on Athena and Veloce. I'm positive there is a vast universe of knowledge on the internet. You also forgot about Mirage. Lowest line of Campagnolo groups. I think Athena came around after I built up all my Campagnolo bikes with Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce. I might have a Mirage front derailleur on one bike too. All work just fine. Appearance and weight seems to be the only difference with modern Campagnolo.
> >
> The (relatively) modern set below Mirage was Avanti Ergo-8.
> https://lfgss.microco.sm/api/v1/files/bf908e6f77c2501660cbffb559d0e5ee75359195.jpg

Campagnolo had something below Mirage? Did not know that. But now that you mention it, Avanti does seem to be somewhat familiar. Like I've heard it somewhere before. I always thought Athena was a really cool name for a group. And I miss not having a triple crankset for road groups anymore. I am lucky enough to have a triple Veloce crank on one of my bikes. With Campagnolo Ergo shifters of course since they can shift double or triple. Unlike STI which requires a different STI shifter for double and triple. BAD design. My Veloce triple is my Mountain Bike. The bike I ride on the roads in the mountains. My triple has a 74mm bcd inner ring. So I have a 24 tooth ring on it. What you NEED for climbing mountains. 24x28 has been low enough for me climbing the modest Rocky mountains.

I'm happy to say I won Record, Chorus, Centaur and Veloce parts or complete groups for the Chorus. No Athena and no Avanti. And no Super Record either. And for Mirage, I might maybe have a Mirage front derailleur on one of the bikes. But I'm not sure on that.

>
> Athena was introduced a year before the first Centaur which
> was a triple MTB set. Athena road and Centaur offroad
> spanned several years together in the 1990s.
>
> https://www.velobase.com/ViewGroup.aspx?GroupID=eb3aab75-6b90-482a-b690-98d3b4d743bb
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 4:00:30 PM UTC-8, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 2:52:31 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 2/23/2022 2:35 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 1:15:12 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 11:09:34 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>> I just noticed that someone on Ebay is selling Campy Athena components. I was under the impression that the levels were:
> > >>>
> > >>> 1. Super Record
> > >>> 2. Record
> > >>> 3. Chorus
> > >>> 4. Centaur
> > >>> 5. Veloce
> > >>>
> > >>> When looking in the Campy stuff it didn't mention Athena. Since the components for sale are 11 speed it is a fairly newly manufactured group. Can anyone tell me about this stuff?
> > >> I just went to the Campy factory site and they don't even mention Veloce. So I assume that there are groups that are sold for purposes other than "racing bikes".
> > >
> > >
> > > GOOGLE is your friend. Just do a Google search on Athena and Veloce. I'm positive there is a vast universe of knowledge on the internet. You also forgot about Mirage. Lowest line of Campagnolo groups. I think Athena came around after I built up all my Campagnolo bikes with Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce. I might have a Mirage front derailleur on one bike too. All work just fine. Appearance and weight seems to be the only difference with modern Campagnolo.
> > >
> > The (relatively) modern set below Mirage was Avanti Ergo-8.
> > https://lfgss.microco.sm/api/v1/files/bf908e6f77c2501660cbffb559d0e5ee75359195.jpg
> Campagnolo had something below Mirage? Did not know that. But now that you mention it, Avanti does seem to be somewhat familiar. Like I've heard it somewhere before. I always thought Athena was a really cool name for a group. And I miss not having a triple crankset for road groups anymore. I am lucky enough to have a triple Veloce crank on one of my bikes. With Campagnolo Ergo shifters of course since they can shift double or triple. Unlike STI which requires a different STI shifter for double and triple. BAD design. My Veloce triple is my Mountain Bike. The bike I ride on the roads in the mountains. My triple has a 74mm bcd inner ring. So I have a 24 tooth ring on it. What you NEED for climbing mountains. 24x28 has been low enough for me climbing the modest Rocky mountains.
>
> I'm happy to say I won Record, Chorus, Centaur and Veloce parts or complete groups for the Chorus. No Athena and no Avanti. And no Super Record either. And for Mirage, I might maybe have a Mirage front derailleur on one of the bikes. But I'm not sure on that.
> >
> > Athena was introduced a year before the first Centaur which
> > was a triple MTB set. Athena road and Centaur offroad
> > spanned several years together in the 1990s.
> >
> > https://www.velobase.com/ViewGroup.aspx?GroupID=eb3aab75-6b90-482a-b690-98d3b4d743bb

I was looking at some Athena parts on Ebay and they are obviously a higher level than Centaur.

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 4:49:15 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 4:00:30 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 2:52:31 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 2/23/2022 2:35 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 1:15:12 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 11:09:34 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>> I just noticed that someone on Ebay is selling Campy Athena components. I was under the impression that the levels were:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 1. Super Record
> > > >>> 2. Record
> > > >>> 3. Chorus
> > > >>> 4. Centaur
> > > >>> 5. Veloce
> > > >>>
> > > >>> When looking in the Campy stuff it didn't mention Athena. Since the components for sale are 11 speed it is a fairly newly manufactured group.. Can anyone tell me about this stuff?
> > > >> I just went to the Campy factory site and they don't even mention Veloce. So I assume that there are groups that are sold for purposes other than "racing bikes".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > GOOGLE is your friend. Just do a Google search on Athena and Veloce.. I'm positive there is a vast universe of knowledge on the internet. You also forgot about Mirage. Lowest line of Campagnolo groups. I think Athena came around after I built up all my Campagnolo bikes with Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce. I might have a Mirage front derailleur on one bike too. All work just fine. Appearance and weight seems to be the only difference with modern Campagnolo.
> > > >
> > > The (relatively) modern set below Mirage was Avanti Ergo-8.
> > > https://lfgss.microco.sm/api/v1/files/bf908e6f77c2501660cbffb559d0e5ee75359195.jpg
> > Campagnolo had something below Mirage? Did not know that. But now that you mention it, Avanti does seem to be somewhat familiar. Like I've heard it somewhere before. I always thought Athena was a really cool name for a group. And I miss not having a triple crankset for road groups anymore. I am lucky enough to have a triple Veloce crank on one of my bikes. With Campagnolo Ergo shifters of course since they can shift double or triple. Unlike STI which requires a different STI shifter for double and triple. BAD design.. My Veloce triple is my Mountain Bike. The bike I ride on the roads in the mountains. My triple has a 74mm bcd inner ring. So I have a 24 tooth ring on it. What you NEED for climbing mountains. 24x28 has been low enough for me climbing the modest Rocky mountains.
> >
> > I'm happy to say I won Record, Chorus, Centaur and Veloce parts or complete groups for the Chorus. No Athena and no Avanti. And no Super Record either. And for Mirage, I might maybe have a Mirage front derailleur on one of the bikes. But I'm not sure on that.
> > >
> > > Athena was introduced a year before the first Centaur which
> > > was a triple MTB set. Athena road and Centaur offroad
> > > spanned several years together in the 1990s.
> > >
> > > https://www.velobase.com/ViewGroup.aspx?GroupID=eb3aab75-6b90-482a-b690-98d3b4d743bb
> I was looking at some Athena parts on Ebay and they are obviously a higher level than Centaur.

Looking the Athena Shifters up they are identical to the Centaur. But the brakes are higher quality almost on a level as the Chorus. Oddly enough you can buy them from Walmart.

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 6:49:15 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 4:00:30 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 2:52:31 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 2/23/2022 2:35 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 1:15:12 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 11:09:34 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>> I just noticed that someone on Ebay is selling Campy Athena components. I was under the impression that the levels were:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 1. Super Record
> > > >>> 2. Record
> > > >>> 3. Chorus
> > > >>> 4. Centaur
> > > >>> 5. Veloce
> > > >>>
> > > >>> When looking in the Campy stuff it didn't mention Athena. Since the components for sale are 11 speed it is a fairly newly manufactured group.. Can anyone tell me about this stuff?
> > > >> I just went to the Campy factory site and they don't even mention Veloce. So I assume that there are groups that are sold for purposes other than "racing bikes".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > GOOGLE is your friend. Just do a Google search on Athena and Veloce.. I'm positive there is a vast universe of knowledge on the internet. You also forgot about Mirage. Lowest line of Campagnolo groups. I think Athena came around after I built up all my Campagnolo bikes with Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce. I might have a Mirage front derailleur on one bike too. All work just fine. Appearance and weight seems to be the only difference with modern Campagnolo.
> > > >
> > > The (relatively) modern set below Mirage was Avanti Ergo-8.
> > > https://lfgss.microco.sm/api/v1/files/bf908e6f77c2501660cbffb559d0e5ee75359195.jpg
> > Campagnolo had something below Mirage? Did not know that. But now that you mention it, Avanti does seem to be somewhat familiar. Like I've heard it somewhere before. I always thought Athena was a really cool name for a group. And I miss not having a triple crankset for road groups anymore. I am lucky enough to have a triple Veloce crank on one of my bikes. With Campagnolo Ergo shifters of course since they can shift double or triple. Unlike STI which requires a different STI shifter for double and triple. BAD design.. My Veloce triple is my Mountain Bike. The bike I ride on the roads in the mountains. My triple has a 74mm bcd inner ring. So I have a 24 tooth ring on it. What you NEED for climbing mountains. 24x28 has been low enough for me climbing the modest Rocky mountains.
> >
> > I'm happy to say I won Record, Chorus, Centaur and Veloce parts or complete groups for the Chorus. No Athena and no Avanti. And no Super Record either. And for Mirage, I might maybe have a Mirage front derailleur on one of the bikes. But I'm not sure on that.
> > >
> > > Athena was introduced a year before the first Centaur which
> > > was a triple MTB set. Athena road and Centaur offroad
> > > spanned several years together in the 1990s.
> > >
> > > https://www.velobase.com/ViewGroup.aspx?GroupID=eb3aab75-6b90-482a-b690-98d3b4d743bb
> I was looking at some Athena parts on Ebay and they are obviously a higher level than Centaur.

Yes Athena is a step above Centaur in the rankings. Record - Chorus - Athena - Centaur - Veloce - Daytona - Mirage. And then that Avanti Andy mentioned down at the bottom. (Wow!!!!! I never realized there were that many freaking groupsets.) This was before they resurrected the Super Record name.. As for higher level, I don't know. I've found all my Campagnolo, Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce, all work the same. Only difference is appearance. Same as Shimano. Once you get up to a certain mid range quality, they are all equal and interchangeable. Other than looks and weight.

****** Add in Super and Avanti and you have NINE different Campagnolo groupsets. Not all at the exact same time. But all were produced within about a 10 year period. No wonder Campagnolo went bankrupt or verge of bankruptcy. They would have needed millions or billions of dollars in computers just to keep track of inventory.

On 2/25/2022 3:11 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 6:49:15 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 4:00:30 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 2:52:31 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 2/23/2022 2:35 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 1:15:12 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 11:09:34 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> I just noticed that someone on Ebay is selling Campy Athena components. I was under the impression that the levels were:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Super Record
>>>>>>> 2. Record
>>>>>>> 3. Chorus
>>>>>>> 4. Centaur
>>>>>>> 5. Veloce
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When looking in the Campy stuff it didn't mention Athena. Since the components for sale are 11 speed it is a fairly newly manufactured group. Can anyone tell me about this stuff?
>>>>>> I just went to the Campy factory site and they don't even mention Veloce. So I assume that there are groups that are sold for purposes other than "racing bikes".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> GOOGLE is your friend. Just do a Google search on Athena and Veloce. I'm positive there is a vast universe of knowledge on the internet. You also forgot about Mirage. Lowest line of Campagnolo groups. I think Athena came around after I built up all my Campagnolo bikes with Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce. I might have a Mirage front derailleur on one bike too. All work just fine. Appearance and weight seems to be the only difference with modern Campagnolo.
>>>>>
>>>> The (relatively) modern set below Mirage was Avanti Ergo-8.
>>>> https://lfgss.microco.sm/api/v1/files/bf908e6f77c2501660cbffb559d0e5ee75359195.jpg
>>> Campagnolo had something below Mirage? Did not know that. But now that you mention it, Avanti does seem to be somewhat familiar. Like I've heard it somewhere before. I always thought Athena was a really cool name for a group. And I miss not having a triple crankset for road groups anymore. I am lucky enough to have a triple Veloce crank on one of my bikes. With Campagnolo Ergo shifters of course since they can shift double or triple. Unlike STI which requires a different STI shifter for double and triple. BAD design. My Veloce triple is my Mountain Bike. The bike I ride on the roads in the mountains. My triple has a 74mm bcd inner ring. So I have a 24 tooth ring on it. What you NEED for climbing mountains. 24x28 has been low enough for me climbing the modest Rocky mountains.
>>>
>>> I'm happy to say I won Record, Chorus, Centaur and Veloce parts or complete groups for the Chorus. No Athena and no Avanti. And no Super Record either. And for Mirage, I might maybe have a Mirage front derailleur on one of the bikes. But I'm not sure on that.
>>>>
>>>> Athena was introduced a year before the first Centaur which
>>>> was a triple MTB set. Athena road and Centaur offroad
>>>> spanned several years together in the 1990s.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.velobase.com/ViewGroup.aspx?GroupID=eb3aab75-6b90-482a-b690-98d3b4d743bb
>> I was looking at some Athena parts on Ebay and they are obviously a higher level than Centaur.
>
> Yes Athena is a step above Centaur in the rankings. Record - Chorus - Athena - Centaur - Veloce - Daytona - Mirage. And then that Avanti Andy mentioned down at the bottom. (Wow!!!!! I never realized there were that many freaking groupsets.) This was before they resurrected the Super Record name. As for higher level, I don't know. I've found all my Campagnolo, Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce, all work the same. Only difference is appearance. Same as Shimano. Once you get up to a certain mid range quality, they are all equal and interchangeable. Other than looks and weight.
>
> ****** Add in Super and Avanti and you have NINE different Campagnolo groupsets. Not all at the exact same time. But all were produced within about a 10 year period. No wonder Campagnolo went bankrupt or verge of bankruptcy. They would have needed millions or billions of dollars in computers just to keep track of inventory.
>

Campagnolo at risk of default? I didn't know that. When?

You left off the unrelated versions of Gran Sport,
Sportsman, Record OR, Euclid, Icarus, Croce d'Aune and
before the current iteration of Centaur that series was
called Daytona (trademark problem).

The 1990s offroad equipment was popular at that time for
touring bike setups- long changers and triple cranksets.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 1:23:33 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/25/2022 3:11 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 6:49:15 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 4:00:30 PM UTC-8, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 2:52:31 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 2/23/2022 2:35 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 1:15:12 PM UTC-6, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 11:09:34 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>> I just noticed that someone on Ebay is selling Campy Athena components. I was under the impression that the levels were:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 1. Super Record
> >>>>>>> 2. Record
> >>>>>>> 3. Chorus
> >>>>>>> 4. Centaur
> >>>>>>> 5. Veloce
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> When looking in the Campy stuff it didn't mention Athena. Since the components for sale are 11 speed it is a fairly newly manufactured group.. Can anyone tell me about this stuff?
> >>>>>> I just went to the Campy factory site and they don't even mention Veloce. So I assume that there are groups that are sold for purposes other than "racing bikes".
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> GOOGLE is your friend. Just do a Google search on Athena and Veloce.. I'm positive there is a vast universe of knowledge on the internet. You also forgot about Mirage. Lowest line of Campagnolo groups. I think Athena came around after I built up all my Campagnolo bikes with Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce. I might have a Mirage front derailleur on one bike too. All work just fine. Appearance and weight seems to be the only difference with modern Campagnolo.
> >>>>>
> >>>> The (relatively) modern set below Mirage was Avanti Ergo-8.
> >>>> https://lfgss.microco.sm/api/v1/files/bf908e6f77c2501660cbffb559d0e5ee75359195.jpg
> >>> Campagnolo had something below Mirage? Did not know that. But now that you mention it, Avanti does seem to be somewhat familiar. Like I've heard it somewhere before. I always thought Athena was a really cool name for a group. And I miss not having a triple crankset for road groups anymore. I am lucky enough to have a triple Veloce crank on one of my bikes. With Campagnolo Ergo shifters of course since they can shift double or triple. Unlike STI which requires a different STI shifter for double and triple. BAD design. My Veloce triple is my Mountain Bike. The bike I ride on the roads in the mountains. My triple has a 74mm bcd inner ring. So I have a 24 tooth ring on it. What you NEED for climbing mountains. 24x28 has been low enough for me climbing the modest Rocky mountains.
> >>>
> >>> I'm happy to say I won Record, Chorus, Centaur and Veloce parts or complete groups for the Chorus. No Athena and no Avanti. And no Super Record either. And for Mirage, I might maybe have a Mirage front derailleur on one of the bikes. But I'm not sure on that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Athena was introduced a year before the first Centaur which
> >>>> was a triple MTB set. Athena road and Centaur offroad
> >>>> spanned several years together in the 1990s.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.velobase.com/ViewGroup.aspx?GroupID=eb3aab75-6b90-482a-b690-98d3b4d743bb
> >> I was looking at some Athena parts on Ebay and they are obviously a higher level than Centaur.
> >
> > Yes Athena is a step above Centaur in the rankings. Record - Chorus - Athena - Centaur - Veloce - Daytona - Mirage. And then that Avanti Andy mentioned down at the bottom. (Wow!!!!! I never realized there were that many freaking groupsets.) This was before they resurrected the Super Record name. As for higher level, I don't know. I've found all my Campagnolo, Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce, all work the same. Only difference is appearance. Same as Shimano. Once you get up to a certain mid range quality, they are all equal and interchangeable. Other than looks and weight.
> >
> > ****** Add in Super and Avanti and you have NINE different Campagnolo groupsets. Not all at the exact same time. But all were produced within about a 10 year period. No wonder Campagnolo went bankrupt or verge of bankruptcy. They would have needed millions or billions of dollars in computers just to keep track of inventory.
> >
> Campagnolo at risk of default? I didn't know that. When?
>
> You left off the unrelated versions of Gran Sport,
> Sportsman, Record OR, Euclid, Icarus, Croce d'Aune and
> before the current iteration of Centaur that series was
> called Daytona (trademark problem).
>
> The 1990s offroad equipment was popular at that time for
> touring bike setups- long changers and triple cranksets.

Daytona was discontinued after Campagnolo were sued for trademark interference. Daytona then became Centaur.

On 2/25/2022 4:11 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> Record - Chorus - Athena - Centaur - Veloce - Daytona - Mirage. And then that Avanti Andy mentioned down at the bottom. (Wow!!!!! I never realized there were that many freaking groupsets.) This was before they resurrected the Super Record name. As for higher level, I don't know. I've found all my Campagnolo, Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce, all work the same. Only difference is appearance. Same as Shimano. Once you get up to a certain mid range quality, they are all equal and interchangeable. Other than looks and weight.

Keep in mind, there's no limit to the top end of any product's price
range. A woman can get a perfectly useful, nice looking handbag for $30,
but some people buy handbags that cost hundreds of dollars; or thousands
of dollars; or tens of thousands of dollars. Or, well,
https://financesonline.com/top-10-most-expensive-handbags-in-the-world-louie-vuitton-diamonds-crocodile-skin/

The same idea works for wristwatches, cars, homes, boats (or, um,
yachts), dresses, suits etc. Timex and Rolex tell time just as well.

So there needs to be a groupset (or, pardon me, a gruppo) for the bike
commuter who buys hundred dollar handbags. It doesn't have to work any
better, but it needs to be marketed well! It needs a good name.

Sure, "Super Record" sounds a bit fancier than "Record." But what's
next? "World Record" is overused for actual records. "Empire Record"
doesn't work because it's two nouns, and "Empirical Record" sounds too
geeky and scientific.

Maybe "Hyper Record"? "Galactic Record"? "Universal Record"?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/25/2022 3:51 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/25/2022 4:11 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Record - Chorus - Athena - Centaur - Veloce - Daytona -
>> Mirage. And then that Avanti Andy mentioned down at the
>> bottom. (Wow!!!!! I never realized there were that many
>> freaking groupsets.) This was before they resurrected the
>> Super Record name. As for higher level, I don't know.
>> I've found all my Campagnolo, Record, Chorus, Centaur,
>> Veloce, all work the same. Only difference is
>> appearance. Same as Shimano. Once you get up to a
>> certain mid range quality, they are all equal and
>> interchangeable. Other than looks and weight.
>
> Keep in mind, there's no limit to the top end of any
> product's price range. A woman can get a perfectly useful,
> nice looking handbag for $30, but some people buy handbags
> that cost hundreds of dollars; or thousands of dollars; or
> tens of thousands of dollars. Or, well,
> https://financesonline.com/top-10-most-expensive-handbags-in-the-world-louie-vuitton-diamonds-crocodile-skin/
>
>
> The same idea works for wristwatches, cars, homes, boats
> (or, um, yachts), dresses, suits etc. Timex and Rolex tell
> time just as well.
>
> So there needs to be a groupset (or, pardon me, a gruppo)
> for the bike commuter who buys hundred dollar handbags. It
> doesn't have to work any better, but it needs to be marketed
> well! It needs a good name.
>
> Sure, "Super Record" sounds a bit fancier than "Record." But
> what's next? "World Record" is overused for actual records.
> "Empire Record" doesn't work because it's two nouns, and
> "Empirical Record" sounds too geeky and scientific.
>
> Maybe "Hyper Record"? "Galactic Record"? "Universal Record"?
>
>

So don't buy it. Others decide differently for their own
reasons or no reason.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 07:27:11 -0600,
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 2/25/2022 3:51 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 2/25/2022 4:11 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> Record - Chorus - Athena - Centaur - Veloce - Daytona -
> >> Mirage. And then that Avanti Andy mentioned down at the
> >> bottom. (Wow!!!!! I never realized there were that many
> >> freaking groupsets.) This was before they resurrected the
> >> Super Record name. As for higher level, I don't know. I've
> >> found all my Campagnolo, Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce, all
> >> work the same. Only difference is appearance. Same as
> >> Shimano. Once you get up to a certain mid range quality,
> >> they are all equal and interchangeable. Other than looks and
> >> weight.
> >
> > Keep in mind, there's no limit to the top end of any product's
> > price range. A woman can get a perfectly useful, nice looking
> > handbag for $30, but some people buy handbags that cost
> > hundreds of dollars; or thousands of dollars; or tens of
> > thousands of dollars. Or, well,
> > https://financesonline.com/top-10-most-expensive-handbags-in-the-world-louie-vuitton-diamonds-crocodile-skin/
> >
> > The same idea works for wristwatches, cars, homes, boats (or,
> > um, yachts), dresses, suits etc. Timex and Rolex tell time
> > just as well.
> >
> > So there needs to be a groupset (or, pardon me, a gruppo) for
> > the bike commuter who buys hundred dollar handbags. It doesn't
> > have to work any better, but it needs to be marketed well! It
> > needs a good name.
> >
> > Sure, "Super Record" sounds a bit fancier than "Record." But
> > what's next? "World Record" is overused for actual records.
> > "Empire Record" doesn't work because it's two nouns, and
> > "Empirical Record" sounds too geeky and scientific.
> >
> > Maybe "Hyper Record"? "Galactic Record"? "Universal Record"?
>
> So don't buy it. Others decide differently for their own
> reasons or no reason.

+1

It must be a dull world that cares only for utility.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On 2/26/2022 8:27 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/25/2022 3:51 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/25/2022 4:11 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>   Record - Chorus - Athena - Centaur - Veloce - Daytona -
>>> Mirage.  And then that Avanti Andy mentioned down at the
>>> bottom.  (Wow!!!!!  I never realized there were that many
>>> freaking groupsets.)  This was before they resurrected the
>>> Super Record name.  As for higher level, I don't know.
>>> I've found all my Campagnolo, Record, Chorus, Centaur,
>>> Veloce, all work the same.  Only difference is
>>> appearance.  Same as Shimano.  Once you get up to a
>>> certain mid range quality, they are all equal and
>>> interchangeable.  Other than looks and weight.
>>
>> Keep in mind, there's no limit to the top end of any
>> product's price range. A woman can get a perfectly useful,
>> nice looking handbag for $30, but some people buy handbags
>> that cost hundreds of dollars; or thousands of dollars; or
>> tens of thousands of dollars. Or, well,
>> https://financesonline.com/top-10-most-expensive-handbags-in-the-world-louie-vuitton-diamonds-crocodile-skin/
>>
>>
>>
>> The same idea works for wristwatches, cars, homes, boats
>> (or, um, yachts), dresses, suits etc. Timex and Rolex tell
>> time just as well.
>>
>> So there needs to be a groupset (or, pardon me, a gruppo)
>> for the bike commuter who buys hundred dollar handbags. It
>> doesn't have to work any better, but it needs to be marketed
>> well! It needs a good name.
>>
>> Sure, "Super Record" sounds a bit fancier than "Record." But
>> what's next? "World Record" is overused for actual records.
>> "Empire Record" doesn't work because it's two nouns, and
>> "Empirical Record" sounds too geeky and scientific.
>>
>> Maybe "Hyper Record"? "Galactic Record"? "Universal Record"?
>>
>>
>
> So don't buy it. Others decide differently for their own reasons or no
> reason.

Oh, I won't buy it. You know that.

But hey, I'm only trying to help those people who judge their personal
worth by the logos on their toys. Better product names will make them
feel better!

Please don't disparage my charitable efforts.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 07:27:11 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/25/2022 3:51 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/25/2022 4:11 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> Record - Chorus - Athena - Centaur - Veloce - Daytona -
>>> Mirage. And then that Avanti Andy mentioned down at the
>>> bottom. (Wow!!!!! I never realized there were that many
>>> freaking groupsets.) This was before they resurrected the
>>> Super Record name. As for higher level, I don't know.
>>> I've found all my Campagnolo, Record, Chorus, Centaur,
>>> Veloce, all work the same. Only difference is
>>> appearance. Same as Shimano. Once you get up to a
>>> certain mid range quality, they are all equal and
>>> interchangeable. Other than looks and weight.
>>
>> Keep in mind, there's no limit to the top end of any
>> product's price range. A woman can get a perfectly useful,
>> nice looking handbag for $30, but some people buy handbags
>> that cost hundreds of dollars; or thousands of dollars; or
>> tens of thousands of dollars. Or, well,
>> https://financesonline.com/top-10-most-expensive-handbags-in-the-world-louie-vuitton-diamonds-crocodile-skin/
>>
>>
>> The same idea works for wristwatches, cars, homes, boats
>> (or, um, yachts), dresses, suits etc. Timex and Rolex tell
>> time just as well.
>>
>> So there needs to be a groupset (or, pardon me, a gruppo)
>> for the bike commuter who buys hundred dollar handbags. It
>> doesn't have to work any better, but it needs to be marketed
>> well! It needs a good name.
>>
>> Sure, "Super Record" sounds a bit fancier than "Record." But
>> what's next? "World Record" is overused for actual records.
>> "Empire Record" doesn't work because it's two nouns, and
>> "Empirical Record" sounds too geeky and scientific.
>>
>> Maybe "Hyper Record"? "Galactic Record"? "Universal Record"?
>>
>>
>
>So don't buy it. Others decide differently for their own
>reasons or no reason.

Re Handbags... if suitable hand bags are available for $30 then one
can only speculate on the why of Diamond Rings, Autos such as BMW,
Mercedes, Cadillac, etc., large and spectacular houses, great big
sailing yachts, tailor made clothes. and all the other indications of
wealth available in the world.

Wouldn't it be better to live in 1 room shacks with an outdoor toilet,
taking a bath in the washtub in front of the kitchen stove on Saturday
Night, B&W TV (or no TV). Yes Sir! Get right down to basics, don't
need any of that falderal, fancy stuff.
--
Cheers,

John B.