I see that Chain Reaction Bicycles still exists...I was rereading old posts
from the days of Jobst and saw Mike Jacoubowski wasa common poster...hope
he's still around.

Never found out what happened to Mike Vandeman, the perrenial imp of
rec.bicycles.soc...he was certainly a single-minded fellow!

pH in Aptos

On 2/15/2022 11:02 AM, pH wrote:
> I see that Chain Reaction Bicycles still exists...I was rereading old posts
> from the days of Jobst and saw Mike Jacoubowski wasa common poster...hope
> he's still around.
>
> Never found out what happened to Mike Vandeman, the perrenial imp of
> rec.bicycles.soc...he was certainly a single-minded fellow!

Mike Jacoubowsky is still around. I sometimes see his letters to the
editor in Bicycle Retailer magazine. Chain Reaction closed one of their
two stores, the one near me, because of lease issues, in 2017.
Interestingly enough, that retail space is still empty
<https://goo.gl/maps/NfEh46dQqYX4eMZS6>, 4.5 years later, and finding
retail stores to take over empty space is very difficult. I always
wondered why a property owner would force out a business before finding
a replacement that would pay higher rent.

The last time I saw anything from Vandeman was here:
<https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/square/2021/04/26/proposed-niles-canyon-trail-would-link-sunol-and-fremont>.
He wrote a response to this news story about a proposed new trail, and
lied about his residence location. He's 78 now so I don't think he's out
on the trail attacking mountain bikers anymore. FWIW, this would be an
awesome trail since the road between these two places is not very good
for cyclists.

"I always wondered why a property owner would force out a business before finding a replacement that would pay higher rent."

Real estate investors make heavy use of depreciation in order to reduce their taxes, and the cost basis of the property for depreciation purposes is a certain multiple of the rent that the building brings in. If the investor were to reduce the rent, he'd be admitting that his previously-claimed basis for depreciation was incorrect, so he would recapture a whole bunch of depreciation. He doesn't want to amend his old returns and pay tax on the tax on the recapture, so he just applies the loss from the vacant property as an offset to income instead.

On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 11:02:46 AM UTC-8, pH wrote:
> I see that Chain Reaction Bicycles still exists...I was rereading old posts
> from the days of Jobst and saw Mike Jacoubowski wasa common poster...hope
> he's still around.
>
> Never found out what happened to Mike Vandeman, the perrenial imp of
> rec.bicycles.soc...he was certainly a single-minded fellow!
>
> pH in Aptos

With the arrival of people like Jeff, John and Flunky they rather rapidly dropped out. I was under the impression that I had gotten tired of Jobst attempted domination of the rides and the group and said so. This is what gave Jobst the idea of printing my mother's name and address and claiming it was mine. It was probably some of the locals still here that threw crap up on her porch.

It appears that MJ is still around but I don't know what happened to Vandeman. Considering the people that are here these days Vandeman would have been the most agreeable person possible in comparison. At least he never purposely lied about things. If he was wrong it was just that and not planned like "I used to shoot in military competitions". Followed by "you can't get burned from the sideblast from a revolver". AFTER I showed a video test of a half dozen revolvers with the sideblast that could even slice a finger open plainly shown.

The .tech group used to be just that and the sidebars were always about riding the way I remember it.

On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:30:33 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> On 2/15/2022 11:02 AM, pH wrote:
> > I see that Chain Reaction Bicycles still exists...I was rereading old posts
> > from the days of Jobst and saw Mike Jacoubowski wasa common poster...hope
> > he's still around.
> >
> > Never found out what happened to Mike Vandeman, the perrenial imp of
> > rec.bicycles.soc...he was certainly a single-minded fellow!
> Mike Jacoubowsky is still around. I sometimes see his letters to the
> editor in Bicycle Retailer magazine. Chain Reaction closed one of their
> two stores, the one near me, because of lease issues, in 2017.
> Interestingly enough, that retail space is still empty
> <https://goo.gl/maps/NfEh46dQqYX4eMZS6>, 4.5 years later, and finding
> retail stores to take over empty space is very difficult. I always
> wondered why a property owner would force out a business before finding
> a replacement that would pay higher rent.
>
> The last time I saw anything from Vandeman was here:
> <https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/square/2021/04/26/proposed-niles-canyon-trail-would-link-sunol-and-fremont>.
> He wrote a response to this news story about a proposed new trail, and
> lied about his residence location. He's 78 now so I don't think he's out
> on the trail attacking mountain bikers anymore. FWIW, this would be an
> awesome trail since the road between these two places is not very good
> for cyclists.

With that protest the bike path was never constructed and instead bicyclists ride on the road from Niles to Sunol and there regularly is a death usually on the way up since there are some climbs that narrow to 2 lanes without a shoulder such as on the several bridges. Niles Canyon is a known danger and it is the only access for 10 miles to the other side of the hills. So it is necessarily used In cases like that you don't complain that a trail isn't everything you'd like it to be - you accept what you can get.

On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 7:02:46 PM UTC, pH wrote:
>
> Never found out what happened to Mike Vandeman, the perrenial imp of
> rec.bicycles.soc...he was certainly a single-minded fellow!
>
This might amuse you:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150322235121/http://coolmainpress.com/ajwriting/archives/993
>

On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:30:33 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> On 2/15/2022 11:02 AM, pH wrote:
> > I see that Chain Reaction Bicycles still exists...I was rereading old posts
> > from the days of Jobst and saw Mike Jacoubowski wasa common poster...hope
> > he's still around.
> >
> > Never found out what happened to Mike Vandeman, the perrenial imp of
> > rec.bicycles.soc...he was certainly a single-minded fellow!
> Mike Jacoubowsky is still around. I sometimes see his letters to the
> editor in Bicycle Retailer magazine. Chain Reaction closed one of their
> two stores, the one near me, because of lease issues, in 2017.
> Interestingly enough, that retail space is still empty
> <https://goo.gl/maps/NfEh46dQqYX4eMZS6>, 4.5 years later, and finding
> retail stores to take over empty space is very difficult. I always
> wondered why a property owner would force out a business before finding
> a replacement that would pay higher rent.
>
> The last time I saw anything from Vandeman was here:
> <https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/square/2021/04/26/proposed-niles-canyon-trail-would-link-sunol-and-fremont>.
> He wrote a response to this news story about a proposed new trail, and
> lied about his residence location. He's 78 now so I don't think he's out
> on the trail attacking mountain bikers anymore. FWIW, this would be an
> awesome trail since the road between these two places is not very good
> for cyclists.

I kind of lost track of things when newsgroup readers weren't really a thing anymore, and the world moved on to Facebook and blogs and such. rec.bicycles.tech and rec.bicycles.racing were interesting places; it was fun trying to thread the needle between extraordinarily opposing viewpoints and try to find common ground somewhere. Many from the usenet groups did make their way over to Facebook, for better or worse.

Nearly everyone on rbr & rbt had some redeemable value, a way of looking at things that had substance, if you tried hard enough to find it. Except Mike Vandeman. You could lose faith in humanity, seeing what that guy got away with.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles

On 2/16/2022 1:24 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:30:33 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
>> On 2/15/2022 11:02 AM, pH wrote:
>>> I see that Chain Reaction Bicycles still exists...I was rereading old posts
>>> from the days of Jobst and saw Mike Jacoubowski wasa common poster...hope
>>> he's still around.
>>>
>>> Never found out what happened to Mike Vandeman, the perrenial imp of
>>> rec.bicycles.soc...he was certainly a single-minded fellow!
>> Mike Jacoubowsky is still around. I sometimes see his letters to the
>> editor in Bicycle Retailer magazine. Chain Reaction closed one of their
>> two stores, the one near me, because of lease issues, in 2017.
>> Interestingly enough, that retail space is still empty
>> <https://goo.gl/maps/NfEh46dQqYX4eMZS6>, 4.5 years later, and finding
>> retail stores to take over empty space is very difficult. I always
>> wondered why a property owner would force out a business before finding
>> a replacement that would pay higher rent.
>>
>> The last time I saw anything from Vandeman was here:
>> <https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/square/2021/04/26/proposed-niles-canyon-trail-would-link-sunol-and-fremont>.
>> He wrote a response to this news story about a proposed new trail, and
>> lied about his residence location. He's 78 now so I don't think he's out
>> on the trail attacking mountain bikers anymore. FWIW, this would be an
>> awesome trail since the road between these two places is not very good
>> for cyclists.
>
> I kind of lost track of things when newsgroup readers weren't really a thing anymore, and the world moved on to Facebook and blogs and such. rec.bicycles.tech and rec.bicycles.racing were interesting places; it was fun trying to thread the needle between extraordinarily opposing viewpoints and try to find common ground somewhere. Many from the usenet groups did make their way over to Facebook, for better or worse.
>
> Nearly everyone on rbr & rbt had some redeemable value, a way of looking at things that had substance, if you tried hard enough to find it. Except Mike Vandeman. You could lose faith in humanity, seeing what that guy got away with.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles

That was a very nice post!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 6:24:26 AM UTC, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:30:33 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> > On 2/15/2022 11:02 AM, pH wrote:
> > > I see that Chain Reaction Bicycles still exists...I was rereading old posts
> > > from the days of Jobst and saw Mike Jacoubowski wasa common poster...hope
> > > he's still around.
> > >
> > > Never found out what happened to Mike Vandeman, the perrenial imp of
> > > rec.bicycles.soc...he was certainly a single-minded fellow!
> > Mike Jacoubowsky is still around. I sometimes see his letters to the
> > editor in Bicycle Retailer magazine. Chain Reaction closed one of their
> > two stores, the one near me, because of lease issues, in 2017.
> > Interestingly enough, that retail space is still empty
> > <https://goo.gl/maps/NfEh46dQqYX4eMZS6>, 4.5 years later, and finding
> > retail stores to take over empty space is very difficult. I always
> > wondered why a property owner would force out a business before finding
> > a replacement that would pay higher rent.
> >
> > The last time I saw anything from Vandeman was here:
> > <https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/square/2021/04/26/proposed-niles-canyon-trail-would-link-sunol-and-fremont>.
> > He wrote a response to this news story about a proposed new trail, and
> > lied about his residence location. He's 78 now so I don't think he's out
> > on the trail attacking mountain bikers anymore. FWIW, this would be an
> > awesome trail since the road between these two places is not very good
> > for cyclists.
> I kind of lost track of things when newsgroup readers weren't really a thing anymore, and the world moved on to Facebook and blogs and such. rec.bicycles.tech and rec.bicycles.racing were interesting places; it was fun trying to thread the needle between extraordinarily opposing viewpoints and try to find common ground somewhere. Many from the usenet groups did make their way over to Facebook, for better or worse.
>
> Nearly everyone on rbr & rbt had some redeemable value, a way of looking at things that had substance, if you tried hard enough to find it. Except Mike Vandeman. You could lose faith in humanity, seeing what that guy got away with.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>
Oh, Mike Vandeman had redeeming value, too. He was an environmentalist with all the right enemies, the hypocritical shredders of the countryside among the most entitled mountain bikers. I was surprised at how much support Dr Vandeman had among decent, law-abiding mountain bikers.
>
Great to see you're still with us, Mike.
>
Andre Jute
Charisma is the art of infuriating the scum of society merely by lounging elegantly.
>

On Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 1:24:26 AM UTC-5, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:30:33 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> > On 2/15/2022 11:02 AM, pH wrote:
> > > I see that Chain Reaction Bicycles still exists...I was rereading old posts
> > > from the days of Jobst and saw Mike Jacoubowski wasa common poster...hope
> > > he's still around.
> > >
> > > Never found out what happened to Mike Vandeman, the perrenial imp of
> > > rec.bicycles.soc...he was certainly a single-minded fellow!
> > Mike Jacoubowsky is still around. I sometimes see his letters to the
> > editor in Bicycle Retailer magazine. Chain Reaction closed one of their
> > two stores, the one near me, because of lease issues, in 2017.
> > Interestingly enough, that retail space is still empty
> > <https://goo.gl/maps/NfEh46dQqYX4eMZS6>, 4.5 years later, and finding
> > retail stores to take over empty space is very difficult. I always
> > wondered why a property owner would force out a business before finding
> > a replacement that would pay higher rent.
> >
> > The last time I saw anything from Vandeman was here:
> > <https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/square/2021/04/26/proposed-niles-canyon-trail-would-link-sunol-and-fremont>.
> > He wrote a response to this news story about a proposed new trail, and
> > lied about his residence location. He's 78 now so I don't think he's out
> > on the trail attacking mountain bikers anymore. FWIW, this would be an
> > awesome trail since the road between these two places is not very good
> > for cyclists.
> I kind of lost track of things when newsgroup readers weren't really a thing anymore, and the world moved on to Facebook and blogs and such. rec.bicycles.tech and rec.bicycles.racing were interesting places; it was fun trying to thread the needle between extraordinarily opposing viewpoints and try to find common ground somewhere. Many from the usenet groups did make their way over to Facebook, for better or worse.
>
> Nearly everyone on rbr & rbt had some redeemable value, a way of looking at things that had substance, if you tried hard enough to find it. Except Mike Vandeman. You could lose faith in humanity, seeing what that guy got away with.
>

andre jute and tom kunich have more than filled any void in despicable behaviour left by Vandeman.
"Magazines available up to 30 rounds for visiting gay bath houses" - Tom Kunich

On 2022-02-15, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 2/15/2022 11:02 AM, pH wrote:
>> I see that Chain Reaction Bicycles still exists...I was rereading old posts
>> from the days of Jobst and saw Mike Jacoubowski wasa common poster...hope
>> he's still around.
>>
>> Never found out what happened to Mike Vandeman, the perrenial imp of
>> rec.bicycles.soc...he was certainly a single-minded fellow!
>
> Mike Jacoubowsky is still around. I sometimes see his letters to the
> editor in Bicycle Retailer magazine. Chain Reaction closed one of their
> two stores, the one near me, because of lease issues, in 2017.
> Interestingly enough, that retail space is still empty
><https://goo.gl/maps/NfEh46dQqYX4eMZS6>, 4.5 years later, and finding
> retail stores to take over empty space is very difficult. I always
> wondered why a property owner would force out a business before finding
> a replacement that would pay higher rent.
>
> The last time I saw anything from Vandeman was here:
><https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/square/2021/04/26/proposed-niles-canyon-trail-would-link-sunol-and-fremont>.
> He wrote a response to this news story about a proposed new trail, and
> lied about his residence location. He's 78 now so I don't think he's out
> on the trail attacking mountain bikers anymore. FWIW, this would be an
> awesome trail since the road between these two places is not very good
> for cyclists.

Thanks for this info. I'm glad that Mike's okay, at least.

pH

On 2022-02-16, Mike Jacoubowsky <mike.chainreaction@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:30:33 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
>> On 2/15/2022 11:02 AM, pH wrote:
>> > I see that Chain Reaction Bicycles still exists...I was rereading old posts
>> > from the days of Jobst and saw Mike Jacoubowski wasa common poster...hope
>> > he's still around.
>> >
>> > Never found out what happened to Mike Vandeman, the perrenial imp of
>> > rec.bicycles.soc...he was certainly a single-minded fellow!
>> Mike Jacoubowsky is still around. I sometimes see his letters to the
>> editor in Bicycle Retailer magazine. Chain Reaction closed one of their
>> two stores, the one near me, because of lease issues, in 2017.
>> Interestingly enough, that retail space is still empty
>> <https://goo.gl/maps/NfEh46dQqYX4eMZS6>, 4.5 years later, and finding
>> retail stores to take over empty space is very difficult. I always
>> wondered why a property owner would force out a business before finding
>> a replacement that would pay higher rent.
>>
>> The last time I saw anything from Vandeman was here:
>> <https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/square/2021/04/26/proposed-niles-canyon-trail-would-link-sunol-and-fremont>.
>> He wrote a response to this news story about a proposed new trail, and
>> lied about his residence location. He's 78 now so I don't think he's out
>> on the trail attacking mountain bikers anymore. FWIW, this would be an
>> awesome trail since the road between these two places is not very good
>> for cyclists.
>
> I kind of lost track of things when newsgroup readers weren't really a thing anymore, and the world moved on to Facebook and blogs and such. rec.bicycles.tech and rec.bicycles.racing were interesting places; it was fun trying to thread the needle between extraordinarily opposing viewpoints and try to find common ground somewhere. Many from the usenet groups did make their way over to Facebook, for better or worse.
>
> Nearly everyone on rbr & rbt had some redeemable value, a way of looking at things that had substance, if you tried hard enough to find it. Except Mike Vandeman. You could lose faith in humanity, seeing what that guy got away with.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles

Great Jumping Horny Toads! Thanks for dropping in, Mike.
I've never done fb and all the other new-fangled things but I sure
understand how people can't be expected to spend all their time keeping up
on all the myriad venues out there, now.

Mike V. is certainly interesting. Wonder how he derived his point of view.

Thank-you for saying "Hi!".

pH

On 2022-02-16, Andre Jute <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 7:02:46 PM UTC, pH wrote:
>>
>> Never found out what happened to Mike Vandeman, the perrenial imp of
>> rec.bicycles.soc...he was certainly a single-minded fellow!
>>
> This might amuse you:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20150322235121/http://coolmainpress.com/ajwriting/archives/993
>>

Thank-you for this link....this really dredges up the memories of that time.

pH

On 2/17/2022 3:21 PM, pH wrote:
> On 2022-02-15, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 2/15/2022 11:02 AM, pH wrote:

<snip>

>> The last time I saw anything from Vandeman was here:
>> <https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/square/2021/04/26/proposed-niles-canyon-trail-would-link-sunol-and-fremont>.
>> He wrote a response to this news story about a proposed new trail, and
>> lied about his residence location. He's 78 now so I don't think he's out
>> on the trail attacking mountain bikers anymore. FWIW, this would be an
>> awesome trail since the road between these two places is not very good
>> for cyclists.
>
> Thanks for this info. I'm glad that Mike's okay, at least.

I wish that they would build that Niles Canyon Trail in my lifetime. At
this time you can ride across San Francisco Bay on the Dumbarton Bridge
and then connect to the Alameda Creek trail all the way from San
Francisco Bay to the western side of Niles Canyon. They need a multi-use
trail through Niles Canyon because the road is not very good for bicycling.

On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 3:31:08 PM UTC-8, pH wrote:
> On 2022-02-16, Mike Jacoubowsky <mike.chai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022 at 12:30:33 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> >> On 2/15/2022 11:02 AM, pH wrote:
> >> > I see that Chain Reaction Bicycles still exists...I was rereading old posts
> >> > from the days of Jobst and saw Mike Jacoubowski wasa common poster....hope
> >> > he's still around.
> >> >
> >> > Never found out what happened to Mike Vandeman, the perrenial imp of
> >> > rec.bicycles.soc...he was certainly a single-minded fellow!
> >> Mike Jacoubowsky is still around. I sometimes see his letters to the
> >> editor in Bicycle Retailer magazine. Chain Reaction closed one of their
> >> two stores, the one near me, because of lease issues, in 2017.
> >> Interestingly enough, that retail space is still empty
> >> <https://goo.gl/maps/NfEh46dQqYX4eMZS6>, 4.5 years later, and finding
> >> retail stores to take over empty space is very difficult. I always
> >> wondered why a property owner would force out a business before finding
> >> a replacement that would pay higher rent.
> >>
> >> The last time I saw anything from Vandeman was here:
> >> <https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/square/2021/04/26/proposed-niles-canyon-trail-would-link-sunol-and-fremont>.
> >> He wrote a response to this news story about a proposed new trail, and
> >> lied about his residence location. He's 78 now so I don't think he's out
> >> on the trail attacking mountain bikers anymore. FWIW, this would be an
> >> awesome trail since the road between these two places is not very good
> >> for cyclists.
> >
> > I kind of lost track of things when newsgroup readers weren't really a thing anymore, and the world moved on to Facebook and blogs and such. rec.bicycles.tech and rec.bicycles.racing were interesting places; it was fun trying to thread the needle between extraordinarily opposing viewpoints and try to find common ground somewhere. Many from the usenet groups did make their way over to Facebook, for better or worse.
> >
> > Nearly everyone on rbr & rbt had some redeemable value, a way of looking at things that had substance, if you tried hard enough to find it. Except Mike Vandeman. You could lose faith in humanity, seeing what that guy got away with.
> >
> > --Mike Jacoubowsky
> > Chain Reaction Bicycles
> Great Jumping Horny Toads! Thanks for dropping in, Mike.
> I've never done fb and all the other new-fangled things but I sure
> understand how people can't be expected to spend all their time keeping up
> on all the myriad venues out there, now.
>
> Mike V. is certainly interesting. Wonder how he derived his point of view..
>
> Thank-you for saying "Hi!".

Mike's philosophy was taken from a Beatles song, entitled Hello, Goodbye.

On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 4:43:45 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> On 2/17/2022 3:21 PM, pH wrote:
> > On 2022-02-15, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> On 2/15/2022 11:02 AM, pH wrote:
> <snip>
> >> The last time I saw anything from Vandeman was here:
> >> <https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/square/2021/04/26/proposed-niles-canyon-trail-would-link-sunol-and-fremont>.
> >> He wrote a response to this news story about a proposed new trail, and
> >> lied about his residence location. He's 78 now so I don't think he's out
> >> on the trail attacking mountain bikers anymore. FWIW, this would be an
> >> awesome trail since the road between these two places is not very good
> >> for cyclists.
> >
> > Thanks for this info. I'm glad that Mike's okay, at least.
> I wish that they would build that Niles Canyon Trail in my lifetime. At
> this time you can ride across San Francisco Bay on the Dumbarton Bridge
> and then connect to the Alameda Creek trail all the way from San
> Francisco Bay to the western side of Niles Canyon. They need a multi-use
> trail through Niles Canyon because the road is not very good for bicycling.
They will never build a bicycle trail through Niles Canyon. It would be FAR too expensive.

On 2/17/2022 3:31 PM, pH wrote:

> Great Jumping Horny Toads! Thanks for dropping in, Mike.
> I've never done fb and all the other new-fangled things but I sure
> understand how people can't be expected to spend all their time keeping up
> on all the myriad venues out there, now.
>
> Mike V. is certainly interesting. Wonder how he derived his point of view.

It's a view based on "hikers were here first so bicycles should be banned."

A better solution, which has been used in some areas, is alternating
access to trails between cyclists and hikers to reduce conflicts. In
Marin County, where mountain biking was "invented," there are areas
where cyclists greatly outnumber cyclists.

In any case, bicyclists got about as much justice as could be expected.
Vandeman served time for his attack. He obviously wasn't going to get
sent to prison for what he did since no one was killed or seriously
injured. He still rails against mountain bikers, and against building
trails that are open to cyclists, but I don't think he will ever resort
to violence again, and no one pays any attention to him.

The oddest thing about Vandeman was that he never was against horses on
trails. Horses make a huge mess on trails, while mountain bikers have
about the same impact as hikers when it comes to erosion.

There's an excellent account of all this, written by Peter Frick-Wright,
see
<http://web.archive.org/web/20110213045616/http://www.peterfrickwright.com/trial>.

On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 1:54:51 AM UTC, sms wrote:
> On 2/17/2022 3:31 PM, pH wrote:
>
> > Great Jumping Horny Toads! Thanks for dropping in, Mike.
> > I've never done fb and all the other new-fangled things but I sure
> > understand how people can't be expected to spend all their time keeping up
> > on all the myriad venues out there, now.
> >
> > Mike V. is certainly interesting. Wonder how he derived his point of view.
> It's a view based on "hikers were here first so bicycles should be banned.."
>
> A better solution, which has been used in some areas, is alternating
> access to trails between cyclists and hikers to reduce conflicts. In
> Marin County, where mountain biking was "invented," there are areas
> where cyclists greatly outnumber cyclists.
>
> In any case, bicyclists got about as much justice as could be expected.
> Vandeman served time for his attack. He obviously wasn't going to get
> sent to prison for what he did since no one was killed or seriously
> injured. He still rails against mountain bikers, and against building
> trails that are open to cyclists, but I don't think he will ever resort
> to violence again, and no one pays any attention to him.
>
> The oddest thing about Vandeman was that he never was against horses on
> trails. Horses make a huge mess on trails, while mountain bikers have
> about the same impact as hikers when it comes to erosion.
>
> There's an excellent account of all this, written by Peter Frick-Wright,
> see
> <http://web.archive.org/web/20110213045616/http://www.peterfrickwright.com/trial>.
>
Peter Frick-Wright is more fraudulent than a double-barreled name, and more mercenary than Scharfie. I'm taking bets on how soon Frick-Wright and Scarfie go into business together selling bicycle warning flags with Mike Vandeman's face on them. Here you can see Frick-Wright giving the lie to Scharfie and condemning himself out of his own mouth:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150322235121/http://coolmainpress.com/ajwriting/archives/993
>
Andre Jute
Slainte!
>

On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:54:51 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> In Marin County, where mountain biking was "invented," there are areas
> where cyclists greatly outnumber cyclists.

Interesting. Usually that's pretty close to a tie!

- Frank Krygowski

On 2/17/2022 9:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 5:54:51 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
>> In Marin County, where mountain biking was "invented," there are areas
>> where cyclists greatly outnumber cyclists.
>
> Interesting. Usually that's pretty close to a tie!
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>

"We have met the enemy and he is us." -Pogo

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I think that in about 2000 or so I met Mike briefly when he was handing out cans of soda pop to riders on Slug Gulch Road, one of the major climbs on the El Dorado Century. Thanks, Mike!