I've got a1997 Marin "Mount Vision" ( that choice was largely because suspension has weight, so I went for an alloy frame to cut down the overall weight ) with 1998 Pace RC36 Evo Pro Class long stroke front forks ( the original Marin ones are rubbish ) with medium springs & oil. -Brilliant action, best forks I've had , either motorcycle or MTB ! 20 % softer spring on the rear shock which is a significant improvement ( as was fitting a women's seat - whoever designed men's saddles must have been a real sadist ! ) And cut 1/2" off each end of the handle bar to get neutral steering.
While I've seen some claim V brakes are OK, that was not my experience. Replacing the rear 1,6 mm cable with a 2mm cable was a slight improvement, but changing brake compounds made little difference .Once I'd been out in the country a few times, I was beginning to develop "arm pump" which basically told me I needed a LOT more power in my brakes! I dealt with that by getting a complete (front & rear ) set of Magura HS 11s ( yellow paint with alloy calipers ) & found -

1) Initially they are quite a fiddle to get the calipers lined up with the rim. but after that subsequent set ups are OK.

2) Magura black pads are kr*p - No power & no feel !

3) Magura grey p[ads give more power & feel, but seem to be too hard on the rim, which they wore through ( I mainly use rear brake as that's adequate for most needs by lightening up the steering & anyway, it's what I use in the dirt . So now I've got a new rim fitted, I'm looking for pads that are gentler on the rim, as I'd rather change pads than rims! )

4) General significant improvements to brakes were to fit braided steel hoses front & rear. Also replaced std. plastic backing plates with alloy ones glued with LOCTITE super glue. - You could feel the improvement with them.

5) So far I've been through 16 different brake pad set ups & have fitted Yellow trials pads in the front ( now ONE only, as 2 is way too much - so the other one in front is a Kool Stop Salmon. With 2 yellow pads in the front , bunny hops were way too easy ! And the last thing I wanted was too surprise some dozy car driver & get a "[car] bumper up my jumper" ! Hence going down to one yellow. Even then if you use the front only, you can feel the back end start to rise, but using both front & rear together prevents that. So, for the rear in summer, I'll probably try a pair of Kool Stop Salmons as I know they are reliable.
For winter use I'll probably use 2 x Kool Stop Salmons in the front & 2 "Green Frogs" in the rear.
So the only remaining problem is that as Magura elected to not fit a conventional brake reservoir ( & what isn't there it can't be broken in a spill ! ) In result. the reservoir is the oil in the brake line. So with long tricky descents using rear brake only, the oil will over heat & the brake fades. The only improvement I've found is to spray the alloy backing plates with matt black heat dispersant paint - & just work round it by also using the front brake a bit more until the oil in the rear cools off !
So, a bit of fiddling & fine tuning, but I'm really happy with what I've now got. :) - HTH ?

On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:04 AM UTC-8, Jim Lyon wrote:
> I've got a1997 Marin "Mount Vision" ( that choice was largely because suspension has weight, so I went for an alloy frame to cut down the overall weight ) with 1998 Pace RC36 Evo Pro Class long stroke front forks ( the original Marin ones are rubbish ) with medium springs & oil. -Brilliant action, best forks I've had , either motorcycle or MTB ! 20 % softer spring on the rear shock which is a significant improvement ( as was fitting a women's seat - whoever designed men's saddles must have been a real sadist ! ) And cut 1/2" off each end of the handle bar to get neutral steering.
> While I've seen some claim V brakes are OK, that was not my experience. Replacing the rear 1,6 mm cable with a 2mm cable was a slight improvement, but changing brake compounds made little difference .Once I'd been out in the country a few times, I was beginning to develop "arm pump" which basically told me I needed a LOT more power in my brakes! I dealt with that by getting a complete (front & rear ) set of Magura HS 11s ( yellow paint with alloy calipers ) & found -
>
> 1) Initially they are quite a fiddle to get the calipers lined up with the rim. but after that subsequent set ups are OK.
>
> 2) Magura black pads are kr*p - No power & no feel !
>
> 3) Magura grey p[ads give more power & feel, but seem to be too hard on the rim, which they wore through ( I mainly use rear brake as that's adequate for most needs by lightening up the steering & anyway, it's what I use in the dirt . So now I've got a new rim fitted, I'm looking for pads that are gentler on the rim, as I'd rather change pads than rims! )
>
> 4) General significant improvements to brakes were to fit braided steel hoses front & rear. Also replaced std. plastic backing plates with alloy ones glued with LOCTITE super glue. - You could feel the improvement with them..
>
> 5) So far I've been through 16 different brake pad set ups & have fitted Yellow trials pads in the front ( now ONE only, as 2 is way too much - so the other one in front is a Kool Stop Salmon. With 2 yellow pads in the front , bunny hops were way too easy ! And the last thing I wanted was too surprise some dozy car driver & get a "[car] bumper up my jumper" ! Hence going down to one yellow. Even then if you use the front only, you can feel the back end start to rise, but using both front & rear together prevents that. So, for the rear in summer, I'll probably try a pair of Kool Stop Salmons as I know they are reliable.
> For winter use I'll probably use 2 x Kool Stop Salmons in the front & 2 "Green Frogs" in the rear.
> So the only remaining problem is that as Magura elected to not fit a conventional brake reservoir ( & what isn't there it can't be broken in a spill ! ) In result. the reservoir is the oil in the brake line. So with long tricky descents using rear brake only, the oil will over heat & the brake fades. The only improvement I've found is to spray the alloy backing plates with matt black heat dispersant paint - & just work round it by also using the front brake a bit more until the oil in the rear cools off !
> So, a bit of fiddling & fine tuning, but I'm really happy with what I've now got. :) - HTH ?

I am probably 190 lbs at the moment - 10 lbs over normal. I ride on the flats with gravel bikes and disks are WAYYY too strong for me. With suspension on a 30% heavier full suspension bike that could be different but not a lot since those great fat 29er tires have a lot of bite. I have gone over the bars once and am super careful not to do so again, but it still makes me nervous. Unless you're really heavy I don't know how you can like them over V-brakes.

On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 4:41:04 PM UTC, Jim Lyon wrote:
> I've got a1997 Marin "Mount Vision" ( that choice was largely because suspension has weight, so I went for an alloy frame to cut down the overall weight ) with 1998 Pace RC36 Evo Pro Class long stroke front forks ( the original Marin ones are rubbish ) with medium springs & oil. -Brilliant action, best forks I've had , either motorcycle or MTB ! 20 % softer spring on the rear shock which is a significant improvement ( as was fitting a women's seat - whoever designed men's saddles must have been a real sadist ! ) And cut 1/2" off each end of the handle bar to get neutral steering.
> While I've seen some claim V brakes are OK, that was not my experience. Replacing the rear 1,6 mm cable with a 2mm cable was a slight improvement, but changing brake compounds made little difference .Once I'd been out in the country a few times, I was beginning to develop "arm pump" which basically told me I needed a LOT more power in my brakes! I dealt with that by getting a complete (front & rear ) set of Magura HS 11s ( yellow paint with alloy calipers ) & found -
>
> 1) Initially they are quite a fiddle to get the calipers lined up with the rim. but after that subsequent set ups are OK.
>
> 2) Magura black pads are kr*p - No power & no feel !
>
> 3) Magura grey p[ads give more power & feel, but seem to be too hard on the rim, which they wore through ( I mainly use rear brake as that's adequate for most needs by lightening up the steering & anyway, it's what I use in the dirt . So now I've got a new rim fitted, I'm looking for pads that are gentler on the rim, as I'd rather change pads than rims! )
>
> 4) General significant improvements to brakes were to fit braided steel hoses front & rear. Also replaced std. plastic backing plates with alloy ones glued with LOCTITE super glue. - You could feel the improvement with them..
>
> 5) So far I've been through 16 different brake pad set ups & have fitted Yellow trials pads in the front ( now ONE only, as 2 is way too much - so the other one in front is a Kool Stop Salmon. With 2 yellow pads in the front , bunny hops were way too easy ! And the last thing I wanted was too surprise some dozy car driver & get a "[car] bumper up my jumper" ! Hence going down to one yellow. Even then if you use the front only, you can feel the back end start to rise, but using both front & rear together prevents that. So, for the rear in summer, I'll probably try a pair of Kool Stop Salmons as I know they are reliable.
> For winter use I'll probably use 2 x Kool Stop Salmons in the front & 2 "Green Frogs" in the rear.
> So the only remaining problem is that as Magura elected to not fit a conventional brake reservoir ( & what isn't there it can't be broken in a spill ! ) In result. the reservoir is the oil in the brake line. So with long tricky descents using rear brake only, the oil will over heat & the brake fades. The only improvement I've found is to spray the alloy backing plates with matt black heat dispersant paint - & just work round it by also using the front brake a bit more until the oil in the rear cools off !
> So, a bit of fiddling & fine tuning, but I'm really happy with what I've now got. :) - HTH ?
>
This is an old thread from 2010, Jim. The situation with the Magura rim hydraulic brakes is not different. The last time I looked, the HS11 and HS33 were hydromechanically precisely the same, except for the cosmetics and a different availability of lengths in the pull. The -33 came in "professional" dark grey to let the usual posers feel superior, while the -11 had the option of interchangeable cheerful pastel colors.
? About the brake blocks. I have used the Magura black blocks for about a dozen years now, and can't fault them. But then, though I'm a fast rider (downhill!), the circumstances of my rides are very different from yours. I ride on low traffic, often empty, small Irish lanes and have little need for high-G emergency stops. And I ride on 622x60 Big Apples inflated to only a fraction over 2 bar, so there's a hell of lot of tyre surface (comparatively speaking) to generate friction with the road; braking problems are likely to be not other vehicles or humans, but bad road surfaces unsettling the tyre to road match. At one stage I tried some of the blocks you mention but liked only the Salmon pinks, and their marginal utility in the wet wasn't worth the bother, so the black blocks returned. You'll grasp how little I use my brakes when I tell you that a set of Magura black blocks lasts me 8500km, say 5000+ miles, even though my bike is often heavily loaded with my painting gear, and my patch of God's own earth is composed entirely of hills. I tend to use the front brake until the back wheel is just on the point of lifting, then hold it down by using the rear brake.
>
Welcome in these halls of madness, Jim. We used to do bicycles here, until the Gang of Thugs ruined the group with their rolling, never-ending bullying. Some of us hope to do bicycles again.
>
Andre Jute
I'm not a technofreak, I tell you. Not! Not! Not!

On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 4:49:26 PM UTC, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:04 AM UTC-8, Jim Lyon wrote:
> > I've got a1997 Marin "Mount Vision" ( that choice was largely because suspension has weight, so I went for an alloy frame to cut down the overall weight ) with 1998 Pace RC36 Evo Pro Class long stroke front forks ( the original Marin ones are rubbish ) with medium springs & oil. -Brilliant action, best forks I've had , either motorcycle or MTB ! 20 % softer spring on the rear shock which is a significant improvement ( as was fitting a women's seat - whoever designed men's saddles must have been a real sadist ! ) And cut 1/2" off each end of the handle bar to get neutral steering.
> > While I've seen some claim V brakes are OK, that was not my experience. Replacing the rear 1,6 mm cable with a 2mm cable was a slight improvement, but changing brake compounds made little difference .Once I'd been out in the country a few times, I was beginning to develop "arm pump" which basically told me I needed a LOT more power in my brakes! I dealt with that by getting a complete (front & rear ) set of Magura HS 11s ( yellow paint with alloy calipers ) & found -
> >
> > 1) Initially they are quite a fiddle to get the calipers lined up with the rim. but after that subsequent set ups are OK.
> >
> > 2) Magura black pads are kr*p - No power & no feel !
> >
> > 3) Magura grey p[ads give more power & feel, but seem to be too hard on the rim, which they wore through ( I mainly use rear brake as that's adequate for most needs by lightening up the steering & anyway, it's what I use in the dirt . So now I've got a new rim fitted, I'm looking for pads that are gentler on the rim, as I'd rather change pads than rims! )
> >
> > 4) General significant improvements to brakes were to fit braided steel hoses front & rear. Also replaced std. plastic backing plates with alloy ones glued with LOCTITE super glue. - You could feel the improvement with them.
> >
> > 5) So far I've been through 16 different brake pad set ups & have fitted Yellow trials pads in the front ( now ONE only, as 2 is way too much - so the other one in front is a Kool Stop Salmon. With 2 yellow pads in the front , bunny hops were way too easy ! And the last thing I wanted was too surprise some dozy car driver & get a "[car] bumper up my jumper" ! Hence going down to one yellow. Even then if you use the front only, you can feel the back end start to rise, but using both front & rear together prevents that. So, for the rear in summer, I'll probably try a pair of Kool Stop Salmons as I know they are reliable.
> > For winter use I'll probably use 2 x Kool Stop Salmons in the front & 2 "Green Frogs" in the rear.
> > So the only remaining problem is that as Magura elected to not fit a conventional brake reservoir ( & what isn't there it can't be broken in a spill ! ) In result. the reservoir is the oil in the brake line. So with long tricky descents using rear brake only, the oil will over heat & the brake fades. The only improvement I've found is to spray the alloy backing plates with matt black heat dispersant paint - & just work round it by also using the front brake a bit more until the oil in the rear cools off !
> > So, a bit of fiddling & fine tuning, but I'm really happy with what I've now got. :) - HTH ?
> I am probably 190 lbs at the moment - 10 lbs over normal. I ride on the flats with gravel bikes and disks are WAYYY too strong for me. With suspension on a 30% heavier full suspension bike that could be different but not a lot since those great fat 29er tires have a lot of bite. I have gone over the bars once and am super careful not to do so again, but it still makes me nervous. Unless you're really heavy I don't know how you can like them over V-brakes.
>
I don't have any V-brakes at the moment. My three current bikes have, respectively, a disc front with a roller brake rear, two awesome 70-series roller brakes, and the Magura HS11 hydraulic rim brake front and rear. I agree with you, the disc brake is crap, just hanging around waiting to bite you in the balls. But the modern roller brakes, once the novelty of having such powerful brakes have worn off, are nearly as bad as the discs for insensitive lack of modulation. Some people view the Magura rim hydraulics as a bigger disc the size of the rim, but then you must also view normal V-brakes as discs the size of the rim. What the Maguras share with the V-brakes is excellent modulation, adequate power, reliability and low maintenance, in the case of the Magura disc hydraulics zero maintenance for an indefinite lifespan. I like the Maguras, a lot. Jim is on the right track there. -- AJ

On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 1:49:07 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 4:49:26 PM UTC, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:04 AM UTC-8, Jim Lyon wrote:
> > > I've got a1997 Marin "Mount Vision" ( that choice was largely because suspension has weight, so I went for an alloy frame to cut down the overall weight ) with 1998 Pace RC36 Evo Pro Class long stroke front forks ( the original Marin ones are rubbish ) with medium springs & oil. -Brilliant action, best forks I've had , either motorcycle or MTB ! 20 % softer spring on the rear shock which is a significant improvement ( as was fitting a women's seat - whoever designed men's saddles must have been a real sadist ! ) And cut 1/2" off each end of the handle bar to get neutral steering.
> > > While I've seen some claim V brakes are OK, that was not my experience. Replacing the rear 1,6 mm cable with a 2mm cable was a slight improvement, but changing brake compounds made little difference .Once I'd been out in the country a few times, I was beginning to develop "arm pump" which basically told me I needed a LOT more power in my brakes! I dealt with that by getting a complete (front & rear ) set of Magura HS 11s ( yellow paint with alloy calipers ) & found -
> > >
> > > 1) Initially they are quite a fiddle to get the calipers lined up with the rim. but after that subsequent set ups are OK.
> > >
> > > 2) Magura black pads are kr*p - No power & no feel !
> > >
> > > 3) Magura grey p[ads give more power & feel, but seem to be too hard on the rim, which they wore through ( I mainly use rear brake as that's adequate for most needs by lightening up the steering & anyway, it's what I use in the dirt . So now I've got a new rim fitted, I'm looking for pads that are gentler on the rim, as I'd rather change pads than rims! )
> > >
> > > 4) General significant improvements to brakes were to fit braided steel hoses front & rear. Also replaced std. plastic backing plates with alloy ones glued with LOCTITE super glue. - You could feel the improvement with them.
> > >
> > > 5) So far I've been through 16 different brake pad set ups & have fitted Yellow trials pads in the front ( now ONE only, as 2 is way too much - so the other one in front is a Kool Stop Salmon. With 2 yellow pads in the front , bunny hops were way too easy ! And the last thing I wanted was too surprise some dozy car driver & get a "[car] bumper up my jumper" ! Hence going down to one yellow. Even then if you use the front only, you can feel the back end start to rise, but using both front & rear together prevents that. So, for the rear in summer, I'll probably try a pair of Kool Stop Salmons as I know they are reliable.
> > > For winter use I'll probably use 2 x Kool Stop Salmons in the front & 2 "Green Frogs" in the rear.
> > > So the only remaining problem is that as Magura elected to not fit a conventional brake reservoir ( & what isn't there it can't be broken in a spill ! ) In result. the reservoir is the oil in the brake line. So with long tricky descents using rear brake only, the oil will over heat & the brake fades. The only improvement I've found is to spray the alloy backing plates with matt black heat dispersant paint - & just work round it by also using the front brake a bit more until the oil in the rear cools off !
> > > So, a bit of fiddling & fine tuning, but I'm really happy with what I've now got. :) - HTH ?
> > I am probably 190 lbs at the moment - 10 lbs over normal. I ride on the flats with gravel bikes and disks are WAYYY too strong for me. With suspension on a 30% heavier full suspension bike that could be different but not a lot since those great fat 29er tires have a lot of bite. I have gone over the bars once and am super careful not to do so again, but it still makes me nervous. Unless you're really heavy I don't know how you can like them over V-brakes.
> >
> I don't have any V-brakes at the moment. My three current bikes have, respectively, a disc front with a roller brake rear, two awesome 70-series roller brakes, and the Magura HS11 hydraulic rim brake front and rear. I agree with you, the disc brake is crap, just hanging around waiting to bite you in the balls. But the modern roller brakes, once the novelty of having such powerful brakes have worn off, are nearly as bad as the discs for insensitive lack of modulation. Some people view the Magura rim hydraulics as a bigger disc the size of the rim, but then you must also view normal V-brakes as discs the size of the rim. What the Maguras share with the V-brakes is excellent modulation, adequate power, reliability and low maintenance, in the case of the Magura disc hydraulics zero maintenance for an indefinite lifespan. I like the Maguras, a lot. Jim is on the right track there. -- AJ

Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.

On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.

I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it should require a
fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 9:02:33 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 1:49:07 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 4:49:26 PM UTC, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:04 AM UTC-8, Jim Lyon wrote:
> > > > I've got a1997 Marin "Mount Vision" ( that choice was largely because suspension has weight, so I went for an alloy frame to cut down the overall weight ) with 1998 Pace RC36 Evo Pro Class long stroke front forks ( the original Marin ones are rubbish ) with medium springs & oil. -Brilliant action, best forks I've had , either motorcycle or MTB ! 20 % softer spring on the rear shock which is a significant improvement ( as was fitting a women's seat - whoever designed men's saddles must have been a real sadist ! ) And cut 1/2" off each end of the handle bar to get neutral steering.
> > > > While I've seen some claim V brakes are OK, that was not my experience. Replacing the rear 1,6 mm cable with a 2mm cable was a slight improvement, but changing brake compounds made little difference .Once I'd been out in the country a few times, I was beginning to develop "arm pump" which basically told me I needed a LOT more power in my brakes! I dealt with that by getting a complete (front & rear ) set of Magura HS 11s ( yellow paint with alloy calipers ) & found -
> > > >
> > > > 1) Initially they are quite a fiddle to get the calipers lined up with the rim. but after that subsequent set ups are OK.
> > > >
> > > > 2) Magura black pads are kr*p - No power & no feel !
> > > >
> > > > 3) Magura grey p[ads give more power & feel, but seem to be too hard on the rim, which they wore through ( I mainly use rear brake as that's adequate for most needs by lightening up the steering & anyway, it's what I use in the dirt . So now I've got a new rim fitted, I'm looking for pads that are gentler on the rim, as I'd rather change pads than rims! )
> > > >
> > > > 4) General significant improvements to brakes were to fit braided steel hoses front & rear. Also replaced std. plastic backing plates with alloy ones glued with LOCTITE super glue. - You could feel the improvement with them.
> > > >
> > > > 5) So far I've been through 16 different brake pad set ups & have fitted Yellow trials pads in the front ( now ONE only, as 2 is way too much - so the other one in front is a Kool Stop Salmon. With 2 yellow pads in the front , bunny hops were way too easy ! And the last thing I wanted was too surprise some dozy car driver & get a "[car] bumper up my jumper" ! Hence going down to one yellow. Even then if you use the front only, you can feel the back end start to rise, but using both front & rear together prevents that. So, for the rear in summer, I'll probably try a pair of Kool Stop Salmons as I know they are reliable.
> > > > For winter use I'll probably use 2 x Kool Stop Salmons in the front & 2 "Green Frogs" in the rear.
> > > > So the only remaining problem is that as Magura elected to not fit a conventional brake reservoir ( & what isn't there it can't be broken in a spill ! ) In result. the reservoir is the oil in the brake line. So with long tricky descents using rear brake only, the oil will over heat & the brake fades. The only improvement I've found is to spray the alloy backing plates with matt black heat dispersant paint - & just work round it by also using the front brake a bit more until the oil in the rear cools off !
> > > > So, a bit of fiddling & fine tuning, but I'm really happy with what I've now got. :) - HTH ?
> > > I am probably 190 lbs at the moment - 10 lbs over normal. I ride on the flats with gravel bikes and disks are WAYYY too strong for me. With suspension on a 30% heavier full suspension bike that could be different but not a lot since those great fat 29er tires have a lot of bite. I have gone over the bars once and am super careful not to do so again, but it still makes me nervous. Unless you're really heavy I don't know how you can like them over V-brakes.
> > >
> > I don't have any V-brakes at the moment. My three current bikes have, respectively, a disc front with a roller brake rear, two awesome 70-series roller brakes, and the Magura HS11 hydraulic rim brake front and rear. I agree with you, the disc brake is crap, just hanging around waiting to bite you in the balls. But the modern roller brakes, once the novelty of having such powerful brakes have worn off, are nearly as bad as the discs for insensitive lack of modulation. Some people view the Magura rim hydraulics as a bigger disc the size of the rim, but then you must also view normal V-brakes as discs the size of the rim. What the Maguras share with the V-brakes is excellent modulation, adequate power, reliability and low maintenance, in the case of the Magura disc hydraulics zero maintenance for an indefinite lifespan. I like the Maguras, a lot. Jim is on the right track there. -- AJ
> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.

95% of the hydro disk users disagree with you.

Lou

On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 3:48:08 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.
> I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it should require a
> fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

The biggest part besides technique is getting used to the brakes. All hydro disks I use and have used have excellent modulation. This week I had my first ride of the season on my road bike with rim brakes and CF rims. They really suck compared to the hydro disk brakes on my winter bikes (cross and gravel). Even with those brakes I got used to within a couple of minutes.

Lou

On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 7:46:00 AM UTC, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 3:48:08 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.
> > I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it should require a
> > fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.
> >
> > --
> > - Frank Krygowski
> The biggest part besides technique is getting used to the brakes. All hydro disks I use and have used have excellent modulation. This week I had my first ride of the season on my road bike with rim brakes and CF rims. They really suck compared to the hydro disk brakes on my winter bikes (cross and gravel). Even with those brakes I got used to within a couple of minutes.
>
> Lou
>
There is also the consideration of how much attention you want to give your bicycle or, stated alternatively, how many ways you want to divide your attention. For me the act of riding a bicycle is trivial. I normally ride in company as a social occasion, or I did until my riding companions died or grew old. From this spring I'll probably be riding alone more often. Perhaps I'll have time to become a precision rider. The likelihood is that I'll think about other things, like whether I want to stop and paint the view, and the act of riding a bicycle will remain, for me, trivial.
>
Incidentally, during the Mike Vandeman trial, I was amazed at how many of the wretched little environment wreckers in the MTB crowd thought that being MTBers made them somehow special, even entitled to railroad an old environmental campaigner with perjury. What it made them instead was nasty boys with empty heads in which on a single thought -- their entitlement as MTBers -- rattled around overly loudly.
>
A J Curmudgeon
Attention span = <3m for anything except novels or paintings.
>

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are
>> simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and
>> you would never like disks again.
>
> I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it should require a
> fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.
>
It’s one of those things that folks online worry about mainly comment
sections..

But folks actually riding, even roadies in real life have generally been
keen, as hydraulic disks generally are easier to live with for most folks,
the advantages are less for a Sunday best club run!

Roger Merriman

On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 10:22:56 a.m. UTC-5, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>
> >> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are
> >> simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and
> >> you would never like disks again.
> >
> > I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it should require a
> > fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.
> >
> It’s one of those things that folks online worry about mainly comment
> sections..
>
> But folks actually riding, even roadies in real life have generally been
> keen, as hydraulic disks generally are easier to live with for most folks,
> the advantages are less for a Sunday best club run!
>
> Roger Merriman

Whenever I put a new set of brakes on any bicycle I then ride the bicycle slowly to an empty parking lot or schoolyard. Once there I ride at different speeds and hit the brakes hard, easy and so on. That gives me a good feel for the bike's new braking system and does so in a safe environment.

I really don't understand this fear that so many have of braking hard and being catapulted over the handlebar - no matter what style of brake they're using.

Cheers

On 3/5/2022 8:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at.
>> Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up.
>> Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.
>
> I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it
> should require a fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.
>

I'm with you in principle but humans adapt such that 'hard
lever force' is a squishy value.

Riders with spoon brakes probably called the first calipers
'grabby' in the same way that Consumer Reports, when
reviewing a selection of three speed bicycles (1974? 1975?),
singled out the only quality machine, Raleigh Sports, as
'unacceptable' due to excessive brake response. (all the
other machines tested were XMart BSOs with crappy brakes)

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/6/2022 1:45 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 3:48:08 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.
>> I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it should require a
>> fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> The biggest part besides technique is getting used to the brakes. All hydro disks I use and have used have excellent modulation. This week I had my first ride of the season on my road bike with rim brakes and CF rims. They really suck compared to the hydro disk brakes on my winter bikes (cross and gravel). Even with those brakes I got used to within a couple of minutes.
>
> Lou
>

+1
It's not the system per se but human rider adaptation/
expectation.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:17:17 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 9:02:33 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 1:49:07 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> > > On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 4:49:26 PM UTC, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:04 AM UTC-8, Jim Lyon wrote:
> > > > > I've got a1997 Marin "Mount Vision" ( that choice was largely because suspension has weight, so I went for an alloy frame to cut down the overall weight ) with 1998 Pace RC36 Evo Pro Class long stroke front forks ( the original Marin ones are rubbish ) with medium springs & oil. -Brilliant action, best forks I've had , either motorcycle or MTB ! 20 % softer spring on the rear shock which is a significant improvement ( as was fitting a women's seat - whoever designed men's saddles must have been a real sadist ! ) And cut 1/2" off each end of the handle bar to get neutral steering.
> > > > > While I've seen some claim V brakes are OK, that was not my experience. Replacing the rear 1,6 mm cable with a 2mm cable was a slight improvement, but changing brake compounds made little difference .Once I'd been out in the country a few times, I was beginning to develop "arm pump" which basically told me I needed a LOT more power in my brakes! I dealt with that by getting a complete (front & rear ) set of Magura HS 11s ( yellow paint with alloy calipers ) & found -
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) Initially they are quite a fiddle to get the calipers lined up with the rim. but after that subsequent set ups are OK.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Magura black pads are kr*p - No power & no feel !
> > > > >
> > > > > 3) Magura grey p[ads give more power & feel, but seem to be too hard on the rim, which they wore through ( I mainly use rear brake as that's adequate for most needs by lightening up the steering & anyway, it's what I use in the dirt . So now I've got a new rim fitted, I'm looking for pads that are gentler on the rim, as I'd rather change pads than rims! )
> > > > >
> > > > > 4) General significant improvements to brakes were to fit braided steel hoses front & rear. Also replaced std. plastic backing plates with alloy ones glued with LOCTITE super glue. - You could feel the improvement with them.
> > > > >
> > > > > 5) So far I've been through 16 different brake pad set ups & have fitted Yellow trials pads in the front ( now ONE only, as 2 is way too much - so the other one in front is a Kool Stop Salmon. With 2 yellow pads in the front , bunny hops were way too easy ! And the last thing I wanted was too surprise some dozy car driver & get a "[car] bumper up my jumper" ! Hence going down to one yellow. Even then if you use the front only, you can feel the back end start to rise, but using both front & rear together prevents that. So, for the rear in summer, I'll probably try a pair of Kool Stop Salmons as I know they are reliable.
> > > > > For winter use I'll probably use 2 x Kool Stop Salmons in the front & 2 "Green Frogs" in the rear.
> > > > > So the only remaining problem is that as Magura elected to not fit a conventional brake reservoir ( & what isn't there it can't be broken in a spill ! ) In result. the reservoir is the oil in the brake line. So with long tricky descents using rear brake only, the oil will over heat & the brake fades. The only improvement I've found is to spray the alloy backing plates with matt black heat dispersant paint - & just work round it by also using the front brake a bit more until the oil in the rear cools off !
> > > > > So, a bit of fiddling & fine tuning, but I'm really happy with what I've now got. :) - HTH ?
> > > > I am probably 190 lbs at the moment - 10 lbs over normal. I ride on the flats with gravel bikes and disks are WAYYY too strong for me. With suspension on a 30% heavier full suspension bike that could be different but not a lot since those great fat 29er tires have a lot of bite. I have gone over the bars once and am super careful not to do so again, but it still makes me nervous. Unless you're really heavy I don't know how you can like them over V-brakes.
> > > >
> > > I don't have any V-brakes at the moment. My three current bikes have, respectively, a disc front with a roller brake rear, two awesome 70-series roller brakes, and the Magura HS11 hydraulic rim brake front and rear. I agree with you, the disc brake is crap, just hanging around waiting to bite you in the balls. But the modern roller brakes, once the novelty of having such powerful brakes have worn off, are nearly as bad as the discs for insensitive lack of modulation. Some people view the Magura rim hydraulics as a bigger disc the size of the rim, but then you must also view normal V-brakes as discs the size of the rim. What the Maguras share with the V-brakes is excellent modulation, adequate power, reliability and low maintenance, in the case of the Magura disc hydraulics zero maintenance for an indefinite lifespan. I like the Maguras, a lot. Jim is on the right track there. -- AJ
> > Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.
> 95% of the hydro disk users disagree with you.

Lou, you could be right. But look again in another two years time after a lot of people have been buying new disks and pads and more have gone over the bars. There is absolutely no way for you to pull a brake handle "moderately" if a car pulls out in front of you or you are braking to a stop with moderate pressure and you hit an unseen pothole. I was one of the early disk users and I still have one on my gravel bike but on flat gravel roads with 38 mm tires, a locked brake simply slides with little danger. I don't like those brakes but the Cannondale is set up for them and not V-brakes that I much prefer.

On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:46:00 PM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 3:48:08 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.
> > I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it should require a
> > fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.
> >
> > --
> > - Frank Krygowski
> The biggest part besides technique is getting used to the brakes. All hydro disks I use and have used have excellent modulation. This week I had my first ride of the season on my road bike with rim brakes and CF rims. They really suck compared to the hydro disk brakes on my winter bikes (cross and gravel). Even with those brakes I got used to within a couple of minutes.

Use the Campy Carbon Fiber compatible brake pads. They brake almost like real brakes.

On 3/6/2022 2:17 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 9:02:33 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.
>
> 95% of the hydro disk users disagree with you.

Fashion.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/6/2022 2:45 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 3:48:08 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.
>> I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it should require a
>> fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> The biggest part besides technique is getting used to the brakes. All hydro disks I use and have used have excellent modulation. This week I had my first ride of the season on my road bike with rim brakes and CF rims. They really suck compared to the hydro disk brakes on my winter bikes (cross and gravel). Even with those brakes I got used to within a couple of minutes.

Adaptation is certainly possible. And I imagine a person riding only one
bike (or only one bike per season) would quickly adapt for ordinary work.

I'd be more concerned about a person with multiple bikes, and about
emergency stops. For example, a person who had spent eight months riding
with rim brakes and CF rims would be used to squeezing quite hard to
stop. If that person then switched to a "winter bike" with touchy discs,
then immediately had a car run a stop sign in front of him, I'd expect
he'd overwork the front brake. (That's assuming the bikes were not
hugely different otherwise - as in a heavy mountain bike with straight
bars vs. a light road bike with drops.)

I think the reason this is not a bigger problem is that panic stops are
extremely rare in real life.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 5:19:19 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/6/2022 2:17 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 9:02:33 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>
> >> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.
> >
> > 95% of the hydro disk users disagree with you.
> Fashion.

What is fashion? The fact that 95% of the hydro disk users don't agree with Tom that these brake lack modulation? That what we are discussing here.

Lou

On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 5:29:57 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/6/2022 2:45 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 3:48:08 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.
> >> I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it should require a
> >> fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.
> >>
> >> --
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >
> > The biggest part besides technique is getting used to the brakes. All hydro disks I use and have used have excellent modulation. This week I had my first ride of the season on my road bike with rim brakes and CF rims. They really suck compared to the hydro disk brakes on my winter bikes (cross and gravel). Even with those brakes I got used to within a couple of minutes..
> Adaptation is certainly possible. And I imagine a person riding only one
> bike (or only one bike per season) would quickly adapt for ordinary work.
>
> I'd be more concerned about a person with multiple bikes, and about
> emergency stops. For example, a person who had spent eight months riding
> with rim brakes and CF rims would be used to squeezing quite hard to
> stop. If that person then switched to a "winter bike" with touchy discs,
> then immediately had a car run a stop sign in front of him, I'd expect
> he'd overwork the front brake. (That's assuming the bikes were not
> hugely different otherwise - as in a heavy mountain bike with straight
> bars vs. a light road bike with drops.)
>
> I think the reason this is not a bigger problem is that panic stops are
> extremely rare in real life.

I used this week a bike with Magura hydraulic rim brakes, a cross bike and a gravel bike with hydraulic rim brakes and a bike with rim brakes on CF rims without any problem. Every brake system give immediately feedback when applied and you act accordingly even in a panic stop. What is the problem?

Lou

On 3/6/2022 10:29 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/6/2022 2:45 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 3:48:08 AM UTC+1, Frank
>> Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is
>>>> at. Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock
>>>> up. Once time over the bars and you would never like
>>>> disks again.
>>> I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it
>>> should require a
>>> fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>> The biggest part besides technique is getting used to the
>> brakes. All hydro disks I use and have used have excellent
>> modulation. This week I had my first ride of the season on
>> my road bike with rim brakes and CF rims. They really suck
>> compared to the hydro disk brakes on my winter bikes
>> (cross and gravel). Even with those brakes I got used to
>> within a couple of minutes.
>
> Adaptation is certainly possible. And I imagine a person
> riding only one bike (or only one bike per season) would
> quickly adapt for ordinary work.
>
> I'd be more concerned about a person with multiple bikes,
> and about emergency stops. For example, a person who had
> spent eight months riding with rim brakes and CF rims would
> be used to squeezing quite hard to stop. If that person then
> switched to a "winter bike" with touchy discs, then
> immediately had a car run a stop sign in front of him, I'd
> expect he'd overwork the front brake. (That's assuming the
> bikes were not hugely different otherwise - as in a heavy
> mountain bike with straight bars vs. a light road bike with
> drops.)
>
> I think the reason this is not a bigger problem is that
> panic stops are extremely rare in real life.
>

It's the human not the hardware.

A good argument can be made that in a population of mostly
right-dominant riders, the front brake should be controlled
from the right. We do that occasionally for motorcycle
riders who are well conditioned to RH front (and a few
disabled but they're anomalies).

That said, the great majority (left or right dominant) of
cyclists expect left front and a reversed control is
dangerous for them. Not inherent, but very true in practical
terms for humans out there riding.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/6/2022 11:51 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 5:29:57 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/6/2022 2:45 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 3:48:08 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.
>>>> I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it should require a
>>>> fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>>> The biggest part besides technique is getting used to the brakes. All hydro disks I use and have used have excellent modulation. This week I had my first ride of the season on my road bike with rim brakes and CF rims. They really suck compared to the hydro disk brakes on my winter bikes (cross and gravel). Even with those brakes I got used to within a couple of minutes.
>> Adaptation is certainly possible. And I imagine a person riding only one
>> bike (or only one bike per season) would quickly adapt for ordinary work.
>>
>> I'd be more concerned about a person with multiple bikes, and about
>> emergency stops. For example, a person who had spent eight months riding
>> with rim brakes and CF rims would be used to squeezing quite hard to
>> stop. If that person then switched to a "winter bike" with touchy discs,
>> then immediately had a car run a stop sign in front of him, I'd expect
>> he'd overwork the front brake. (That's assuming the bikes were not
>> hugely different otherwise - as in a heavy mountain bike with straight
>> bars vs. a light road bike with drops.)
>>
>> I think the reason this is not a bigger problem is that panic stops are
>> extremely rare in real life.
>
> I used this week a bike with Magura hydraulic rim brakes, a cross bike and a gravel bike with hydraulic rim brakes and a bike with rim brakes on CF rims without any problem. Every brake system give immediately feedback when applied and you act accordingly even in a panic stop. What is the problem?

The problem would be infrequent, as I said. But the problem I visualize
is a true panic stop.

I've described this before, but on a club ride through a forest park a
few years ago, I was coasting down a steep hill at 30 mph or more.
Suddenly a young fawn trotted out of the forest directly in my path.
That was the hardest braking I'd ever done at such speed. I yelled in
astonishment as I did it.

My cantilever brakes slowed me enough to miss the fawn, and my yell
stopped its siblings from entering the road. But if I'd had new disc
brakes on the bike, would I have been able to use "immediate feedback"
to immediately modulate my lever squeeze? I really, really doubt it! In
such a situation, reactions are all reflex and muscle memory.

It's not going to be a major problem because true panic stops are rare.
(Bicycling is a very safe activity.) But I've seen people go over the
bars because they were not used to dual pivot brakes, back when they
were new. I think it's bound to happen occasionally with discs.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 10:22:56 a.m. UTC-5, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are
>>>> simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and
>>>> you would never like disks again.
>>>
>>> I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it should require a
>>> fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.
>>>
>> It’s one of those things that folks online worry about mainly comment
>> sections..
>>
>> But folks actually riding, even roadies in real life have generally been
>> keen, as hydraulic disks generally are easier to live with for most folks,
>> the advantages are less for a Sunday best club run!
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> Whenever I put a new set of brakes on any bicycle I then ride the bicycle
> slowly to an empty parking lot or schoolyard. Once there I ride at
> different speeds and hit the brakes hard, easy and so on. That gives me a
> good feel for the bike's new braking system and does so in a safe environment.
>
> I really don't understand this fear that so many have of braking hard and
> being catapulted over the handlebar - no matter what style of brake they're using.
>
> Cheers
>
I did occasionally, used to be surprised how sharp the MTB brakes are, as
was quite a gap between it and the CX bike which had truly awful canti, but
now all my bikes have hydraulic disks, the gap isn’t as huge, though still
noticeable, mainly as the old commute bike has fairly cheap brakes.

Roger Merriman

On Sun, 06 Mar 2022 10:02:24 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 3/5/2022 8:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at.
>>> Disks are simply too powerful and too easy to lock up.
>>> Once time over the bars and you would never like disks again.
>>
>> I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it
>> should require a fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.
>>
>
>I'm with you in principle but humans adapt such that 'hard
>lever force' is a squishy value.
>
>Riders with spoon brakes probably called the first calipers
>'grabby' in the same way that Consumer Reports, when
>reviewing a selection of three speed bicycles (1974? 1975?),
>singled out the only quality machine, Raleigh Sports, as
>'unacceptable' due to excessive brake response. (all the
>other machines tested were XMart BSOs with crappy brakes)

With the exception of the Japanese bike with the "rod" brakes I have
never owned a bicycle that didn't have what I considered as adequate
brakes. Yes I may have has to "fiddle" with them a bit or change the
brake pads but never inadequate.

I might add that the "strongest" brakes I ever used were Vee brakes on
one particular bike that would stop either or both wheels from turning
while coasting down a hill at a guessed 25 MPH. Can you have "more"
breaking then the ability to stop the wheel from turning?

All of which isn't an argument that you shouldn't use disc brakes, or
dragging your feet for that matter, to stop, if you want to (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 6 Mar 2022 07:30:08 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
<i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 10:22:56 a.m. UTC-5, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> > On 3/5/2022 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Well, in my book the ease of modulation is where it is at. Disks are
>> >> simply too powerful and too easy to lock up. Once time over the bars and
>> >> you would never like disks again.
>> >
>> > I agree with that. At least for road riding, I think it should require a
>> > fairly hard lever force to lock up a brake.
>> >
>> It’s one of those things that folks online worry about mainly comment
>> sections..
>>
>> But folks actually riding, even roadies in real life have generally been
>> keen, as hydraulic disks generally are easier to live with for most folks,
>> the advantages are less for a Sunday best club run!
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
>Whenever I put a new set of brakes on any bicycle I then ride the bicycle slowly to an empty parking lot or schoolyard. Once there I ride at different speeds and hit the brakes hard, easy and so on. That gives me a good feel for the bike's new braking system and does so in a safe environment.
>
>I really don't understand this fear that so many have of braking hard and being catapulted over the handlebar - no matter what style of brake they're using.
>
>Cheers

Well, I don't know about being catapulted over the handle bars but I
did, once, brake hard enough that the rear wheel came off the ground.
I was riding in traffic, admittedly too fast for conditions, and
someone flagged down a taxi right in front of me who jammed his brakes
on and I jammed on mine and the rear wheel came off the ground. I
suppose that I probably eased off on the brakes - hard to say as it
all happened very quickly - and I hit the taxi.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 6 Mar 2022 13:05:12 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> It's not going to be a major problem because true panic stops are rare.

It's a crying shame that one can't practice being startled.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/