While y'all are nattering on about fixing up irrelevant elitist lathes
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/b3GF-w0VG5g
the Chinese simply made several million small lathes and used them to teach primary school children how to operate a lathe.

I bought one that could be kept in my studio at home to use as a first-approach lathe for items I would send to the precision lathes in a prototype shop I financed back in the nineties of the last century and the noughties of this one when I did a lot of industrial design work, mainly in the automobile and ultrafi audio fields. It cost 99 Euro delivered to my door carriage and VAT paid. There is also a slightly more expensive all-metal version, which was sold out when I ordered. Furthermore, the base version is available in 6, 8 and umpteen transformations to other machines, single function versions being also available. There are also a 48W and all-metal versions for those contemplating more serious work.

Mine is transformable into six different functions, described by the vendor in Czechoslovakia as:
"This 6 in 1 kit can be transformed into six different functional machines including jig-saw machine, drilling machine, sanding machine, wood-turning lathe, milling machine and metal lathe. The base of the machine is made of durable aluminum alloy and the external shell is made of engineering plastic. Since it can works with wood and acrylic as well as metals such as gold, silver, copper, aluminum, it is perfect for model making, art projects, DIY, and many other applications."
More specs below my signature.

The literature, professionally produced in very nice English with superb photographs, among other things show school children I judge to be maybe 8 years old at most using these lathes.

I imagine it is a Chinese Copy of the Austrian Unimat small metal lathe, of which I had one decades ago which got left somewhere when I moved on -- I used to buy all kinds of tools and machinery on the company and use them when I wanted my mind to idle so it could be open to ideas out of left field, including a whole workbench in my office by my gym door; same thing other innovative executives do when they're sitting with their feet up apparently staring blankly out of the window, and I did the same when I was on loan to some other corporation than my home bases at the bank or the ad agencies. Someone in the accounts department would once a month over a weekend or when I was out of the office have a new carpet installed in my office, because machine oil just doesn't come out of wool. When I finished the project, I left all that stuff behind because it was no doubt charged with a loading to the people I consulted to, and therefore their property.

My Chinese school kid's version was ostensibly made by Zhou Zu but Chinese are more prolific brand engineers than even British Motors Corporation at its silly peak, so a serious investigation of the source will probably find no-name Factory No 123245 made them all.

I use it with Robert Sorbie tools, both full-size (I love the complete Sovereign Turnmaster Set which comes in a neatly fitted wooden box and has all the tools I need),
https://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/woodturning/woodturning-sets/sovereign-sets/sov-rstmdbs-sovereign-turnmaster-set
and doll's house size, which Sorbie calls the "18 Tool Modular Micro set", for wood and soft metals.
https://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/woodturning/woodturning-sets/modular-micro-woodturning-tool-sets/a888hs18t-18-tool-modular-micro-set
from which I basically use only four tools (the versatile teardrop that you can turn around for various cuts, Sorbie's clever thumbnail thingy which does the initial shaping, and the adaptor for the patterning wheelies, of which I have a full set, and of course the parter) plus the universal micro handle. I keep the ones I use with a couple of quickset inside and outside calipers in a zip up 5x9.6x1in leather case I made for the purpose, which slips into a pocket on the leather cover for the manual. Some of the other tools may be useful but I've learned to use these really clever and versatile tools and they do everything I've wanted until now. Less is more, as Eric Blair had the pig say.

Andre Jute
Mr Versatility.

More details about the Chinese school lathe:
Features:
6 in 1 multifunctional machine for meeting different needs
Mini size for portable and easy operation
20000rpm for more effective
Over-current, over-voltage and over-heating protection for more safe
Made of aluminum, carbon steel and ABS for durable use
Specifications:
Current: 2A
Power:24W (EU PLUG)
Motor speed:20000rpm
Input voltage: DC12V
Material: Aluminum, Carbon Steel, ABS
Weight:4.5kg
Package size:49.5x39x12cm/19.49"x13.35"x4.72“
Processing material length: 135mm
Maximum diameter of processed materials: 20mm
Center height: 25mm
Machinable materials: wood, engineering plastics, soft metal (gold, silver, copper, aluminum, etc.).

1. Jig-Saw Machine
Table Size: 90x90mm
It can cut straight and curve lines
Special design will cause slighter vibration.
Motor blades and gear are made by metal structure for durable use
Maximum Cutting Thickness: Hardwood- 4mm; Plywood- 7mm; Softwood- 18mm; Aluminum Sheeting- 0.5mm; Plexi-Glass- 2mm;
2. Drilling Machine
Slide travel: 30mm and 50mm
Clamp dimensions: 25X35mm
Collet size: 1 to 6 mm
Work space: 123x100mm
Can be converted into a hand drill or hand grinding
Adjustable angle from 0-180 degrees for flexible useIt can process wood, soft-aluminum, brass, copper, plastics, etc.
3. Sanding machine
Working area: 123x100mm
Equipped with a small grinding wheel and grinding wheel cover, it can be used for polishing, grinding, also can undertake various handheld angle grinding.
4. Wood-turning Lathe
Maximum diameter of processed materials: 45mm
Length of processing materials: 135mm
5. Milling Machine
Slide travel: 30-50mm
Collect size: 1 to 6 mm
Clamping dimension: 30mm
Adopt a milling cutter for more effective.
Milling machine can be transformed to X, Y, Z three dimensional space operation.
6. Metal Lathe
3-jaw chuck (self-centering)
Length of Processing Materials: 135mm
The maximum diameter of the processed Materials: 20mm
Maintenance：
Fix the machine on the board or other table. Shot off the power when not use.
Wear protect goggles when operating the machine.
Keep its surface clean and dry, maintain the machine and lubricate the motive parts in time.
Package Included:
1 X 6 In 1 Mini Multifunctional Machine
1 X Instruction Book

All for 99 bucks with free delivery and sales taxes paid!

Here's an offer that comes up on the first page of Aliexpress, for shipping from Germany to Ireland, carriage and VAT paid, for about 120 Euro. You can go look for a cheaper offer yourself, and for an ad which shows the children using the lathe and its transformations. I show this seller because he offers further useful illustrated information on the tool.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003354038500.html
>
On Friday, March 11, 2022 at 12:30:28 PM UTC, Andre Jute wrote:
> While y'all are nattering on about fixing up irrelevant elitist lathes
> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/b3GF-w0VG5g
> the Chinese simply made several million small lathes and used them to teach primary school children how to operate a lathe.
>
> I bought one that could be kept in my studio at home to use as a first-approach lathe for items I would send to the precision lathes in a prototype shop I financed back in the nineties of the last century and the noughties of this one when I did a lot of industrial design work, mainly in the automobile and ultrafi audio fields. It cost 99 Euro delivered to my door carriage and VAT paid. There is also a slightly more expensive all-metal version, which was sold out when I ordered. Furthermore, the base version is available in 6, 8 and umpteen transformations to other machines, single function versions being also available. There are also a 48W and all-metal versions for those contemplating more serious work.
>
> Mine is transformable into six different functions, described by the vendor in Czechoslovakia as:
> "This 6 in 1 kit can be transformed into six different functional machines including jig-saw machine, drilling machine, sanding machine, wood-turning lathe, milling machine and metal lathe. The base of the machine is made of durable aluminum alloy and the external shell is made of engineering plastic. Since it can works with wood and acrylic as well as metals such as gold, silver, copper, aluminum, it is perfect for model making, art projects, DIY, and many other applications."
> More specs below my signature.
>
> The literature, professionally produced in very nice English with superb photographs, among other things show school children I judge to be maybe 8 years old at most using these lathes.
>
> I imagine it is a Chinese Copy of the Austrian Unimat small metal lathe, of which I had one decades ago which got left somewhere when I moved on -- I used to buy all kinds of tools and machinery on the company and use them when I wanted my mind to idle so it could be open to ideas out of left field, including a whole workbench in my office by my gym door; same thing other innovative executives do when they're sitting with their feet up apparently staring blankly out of the window, and I did the same when I was on loan to some other corporation than my home bases at the bank or the ad agencies. Someone in the accounts department would once a month over a weekend or when I was out of the office have a new carpet installed in my office, because machine oil just doesn't come out of wool. When I finished the project, I left all that stuff behind because it was no doubt charged with a loading to the people I consulted to, and therefore their property.
>
> My Chinese school kid's version was ostensibly made by Zhou Zu but Chinese are more prolific brand engineers than even British Motors Corporation at its silly peak, so a serious investigation of the source will probably find no-name Factory No 123245 made them all.
>
> I use it with Robert Sorbie tools, both full-size (I love the complete Sovereign Turnmaster Set which comes in a neatly fitted wooden box and has all the tools I need),
> https://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/woodturning/woodturning-sets/sovereign-sets/sov-rstmdbs-sovereign-turnmaster-set
> and doll's house size, which Sorbie calls the "18 Tool Modular Micro set", for wood and soft metals.
> https://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/woodturning/woodturning-sets/modular-micro-woodturning-tool-sets/a888hs18t-18-tool-modular-micro-set
> from which I basically use only four tools (the versatile teardrop that you can turn around for various cuts, Sorbie's clever thumbnail thingy which does the initial shaping, and the adaptor for the patterning wheelies, of which I have a full set, and of course the parter) plus the universal micro handle. I keep the ones I use with a couple of quickset inside and outside calipers in a zip up 5x9.6x1in leather case I made for the purpose, which slips into a pocket on the leather cover for the manual. Some of the other tools may be useful but I've learned to use these really clever and versatile tools and they do everything I've wanted until now. Less is more, as Eric Blair had the pig say.
>
> Andre Jute
> Mr Versatility.
>
> More details about the Chinese school lathe:
> Features:
> 6 in 1 multifunctional machine for meeting different needs
> Mini size for portable and easy operation
> 20000rpm for more effective
> Over-current, over-voltage and over-heating protection for more safe
> Made of aluminum, carbon steel and ABS for durable use
> Specifications:
> Current: 2A
> Power:24W (EU PLUG)
> Motor speed:20000rpm
> Input voltage: DC12V
> Material: Aluminum, Carbon Steel, ABS
> Weight:4.5kg
> Package size:49.5x39x12cm/19.49"x13.35"x4.72“
> Processing material length: 135mm
> Maximum diameter of processed materials: 20mm
> Center height: 25mm
> Machinable materials: wood, engineering plastics, soft metal (gold, silver, copper, aluminum, etc.).
>
> 1. Jig-Saw Machine
> Table Size: 90x90mm
> It can cut straight and curve lines
> Special design will cause slighter vibration.
> Motor blades and gear are made by metal structure for durable use
> Maximum Cutting Thickness: Hardwood- 4mm; Plywood- 7mm; Softwood- 18mm; Aluminum Sheeting- 0.5mm; Plexi-Glass- 2mm;
> 2. Drilling Machine
> Slide travel: 30mm and 50mm
> Clamp dimensions: 25X35mm
> Collet size: 1 to 6 mm
> Work space: 123x100mm
> Can be converted into a hand drill or hand grinding
> Adjustable angle from 0-180 degrees for flexible useIt can process wood, soft-aluminum, brass, copper, plastics, etc.
> 3. Sanding machine
> Working area: 123x100mm
> Equipped with a small grinding wheel and grinding wheel cover, it can be used for polishing, grinding, also can undertake various handheld angle grinding.
> 4. Wood-turning Lathe
> Maximum diameter of processed materials: 45mm
> Length of processing materials: 135mm
> 5. Milling Machine
> Slide travel: 30-50mm
> Collect size: 1 to 6 mm
> Clamping dimension: 30mm
> Adopt a milling cutter for more effective.
> Milling machine can be transformed to X, Y, Z three dimensional space operation.
> 6. Metal Lathe
> 3-jaw chuck (self-centering)
> Length of Processing Materials: 135mm
> The maximum diameter of the processed Materials: 20mm
> Maintenance：
> Fix the machine on the board or other table. Shot off the power when not use.
> Wear protect goggles when operating the machine.
> Keep its surface clean and dry, maintain the machine and lubricate the motive parts in time.
> Package Included:
> 1 X 6 In 1 Mini Multifunctional Machine
> 1 X Instruction Book
>
> All for 99 bucks with free delivery and sales taxes paid!
>

Sorry, I left off a link to the actual lathe I was talking about. Here's a dealer off the first page at Aliexpress who offers the lathe for 120 euro shipped and taxes paid from Germany. I show this seller because he offers further useful information on the tool.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003354038500.html
You can go look for yourself for a dealer who shows the amazing pictures of children using the lather, and for a cheaper price. I chose this dealer because he offers additional illustrated information about the lathe. -- AJ
>
On Friday, March 11, 2022 at 12:30:28 PM UTC, Andre Jute wrote:
> While y'all are nattering on about fixing up irrelevant elitist lathes
> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/b3GF-w0VG5g
> the Chinese simply made several million small lathes and used them to teach primary school children how to operate a lathe.
>
> I bought one that could be kept in my studio at home to use as a first-approach lathe for items I would send to the precision lathes in a prototype shop I financed back in the nineties of the last century and the noughties of this one when I did a lot of industrial design work, mainly in the automobile and ultrafi audio fields. It cost 99 Euro delivered to my door carriage and VAT paid. There is also a slightly more expensive all-metal version, which was sold out when I ordered. Furthermore, the base version is available in 6, 8 and umpteen transformations to other machines, single function versions being also available. There are also a 48W and all-metal versions for those contemplating more serious work.
>
> Mine is transformable into six different functions, described by the vendor in Czechoslovakia as:
> "This 6 in 1 kit can be transformed into six different functional machines including jig-saw machine, drilling machine, sanding machine, wood-turning lathe, milling machine and metal lathe. The base of the machine is made of durable aluminum alloy and the external shell is made of engineering plastic. Since it can works with wood and acrylic as well as metals such as gold, silver, copper, aluminum, it is perfect for model making, art projects, DIY, and many other applications."
> More specs below my signature.
>
> The literature, professionally produced in very nice English with superb photographs, among other things show school children I judge to be maybe 8 years old at most using these lathes.
>
> I imagine it is a Chinese Copy of the Austrian Unimat small metal lathe, of which I had one decades ago which got left somewhere when I moved on -- I used to buy all kinds of tools and machinery on the company and use them when I wanted my mind to idle so it could be open to ideas out of left field, including a whole workbench in my office by my gym door; same thing other innovative executives do when they're sitting with their feet up apparently staring blankly out of the window, and I did the same when I was on loan to some other corporation than my home bases at the bank or the ad agencies. Someone in the accounts department would once a month over a weekend or when I was out of the office have a new carpet installed in my office, because machine oil just doesn't come out of wool. When I finished the project, I left all that stuff behind because it was no doubt charged with a loading to the people I consulted to, and therefore their property.
>
> My Chinese school kid's version was ostensibly made by Zhou Zu but Chinese are more prolific brand engineers than even British Motors Corporation at its silly peak, so a serious investigation of the source will probably find no-name Factory No 123245 made them all.
>
> I use it with Robert Sorbie tools, both full-size (I love the complete Sovereign Turnmaster Set which comes in a neatly fitted wooden box and has all the tools I need),
> https://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/woodturning/woodturning-sets/sovereign-sets/sov-rstmdbs-sovereign-turnmaster-set
> and doll's house size, which Sorbie calls the "18 Tool Modular Micro set", for wood and soft metals.
> https://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/woodturning/woodturning-sets/modular-micro-woodturning-tool-sets/a888hs18t-18-tool-modular-micro-set
> from which I basically use only four tools (the versatile teardrop that you can turn around for various cuts, Sorbie's clever thumbnail thingy which does the initial shaping, and the adaptor for the patterning wheelies, of which I have a full set, and of course the parter) plus the universal micro handle. I keep the ones I use with a couple of quickset inside and outside calipers in a zip up 5x9.6x1in leather case I made for the purpose, which slips into a pocket on the leather cover for the manual. Some of the other tools may be useful but I've learned to use these really clever and versatile tools and they do everything I've wanted until now. Less is more, as Eric Blair had the pig say.
>
> Andre Jute
> Mr Versatility.
>
> More details about the Chinese school lathe:
> Features:
> 6 in 1 multifunctional machine for meeting different needs
> Mini size for portable and easy operation
> 20000rpm for more effective
> Over-current, over-voltage and over-heating protection for more safe
> Made of aluminum, carbon steel and ABS for durable use
> Specifications:
> Current: 2A
> Power:24W (EU PLUG)
> Motor speed:20000rpm
> Input voltage: DC12V
> Material: Aluminum, Carbon Steel, ABS
> Weight:4.5kg
> Package size:49.5x39x12cm/19.49"x13.35"x4.72“
> Processing material length: 135mm
> Maximum diameter of processed materials: 20mm
> Center height: 25mm
> Machinable materials: wood, engineering plastics, soft metal (gold, silver, copper, aluminum, etc.).
>
> 1. Jig-Saw Machine
> Table Size: 90x90mm
> It can cut straight and curve lines
> Special design will cause slighter vibration.
> Motor blades and gear are made by metal structure for durable use
> Maximum Cutting Thickness: Hardwood- 4mm; Plywood- 7mm; Softwood- 18mm; Aluminum Sheeting- 0.5mm; Plexi-Glass- 2mm;
> 2. Drilling Machine
> Slide travel: 30mm and 50mm
> Clamp dimensions: 25X35mm
> Collet size: 1 to 6 mm
> Work space: 123x100mm
> Can be converted into a hand drill or hand grinding
> Adjustable angle from 0-180 degrees for flexible useIt can process wood, soft-aluminum, brass, copper, plastics, etc.
> 3. Sanding machine
> Working area: 123x100mm
> Equipped with a small grinding wheel and grinding wheel cover, it can be used for polishing, grinding, also can undertake various handheld angle grinding.
> 4. Wood-turning Lathe
> Maximum diameter of processed materials: 45mm
> Length of processing materials: 135mm
> 5. Milling Machine
> Slide travel: 30-50mm
> Collect size: 1 to 6 mm
> Clamping dimension: 30mm
> Adopt a milling cutter for more effective.
> Milling machine can be transformed to X, Y, Z three dimensional space operation.
> 6. Metal Lathe
> 3-jaw chuck (self-centering)
> Length of Processing Materials: 135mm
> The maximum diameter of the processed Materials: 20mm
> Maintenance：
> Fix the machine on the board or other table. Shot off the power when not use.
> Wear protect goggles when operating the machine.
> Keep its surface clean and dry, maintain the machine and lubricate the motive parts in time.
> Package Included:
> 1 X 6 In 1 Mini Multifunctional Machine
> 1 X Instruction Book
>
> All for 99 bucks with free delivery and sales taxes paid!

Sorry, I left off a link to the actual lathe I was talking about. Here's a dealer off the first page at Aliexpress who offers the lathe for 120 euro shipped and taxes paid from Germany. I show this seller because he offers further useful information on the tool.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003354038500.html
You can go look for yourself for a dealer who shows the amazing pictures of children using the lather, and for a cheaper price. I chose this dealer because he offers additional illustrated information about the lathe. -- AJ
>
On Friday, March 11, 2022 at 12:30:28 PM UTC, Andre Jute wrote:
> While y'all are nattering on about fixing up irrelevant elitist lathes
> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/b3GF-w0VG5g
> the Chinese simply made several million small lathes and used them to teach primary school children how to operate a lathe.
>
> I bought one that could be kept in my studio at home to use as a first-approach lathe for items I would send to the precision lathes in a prototype shop I financed back in the nineties of the last century and the noughties of this one when I did a lot of industrial design work, mainly in the automobile and ultrafi audio fields. It cost 99 Euro delivered to my door carriage and VAT paid. There is also a slightly more expensive all-metal version, which was sold out when I ordered. Furthermore, the base version is available in 6, 8 and umpteen transformations to other machines, single function versions being also available. There are also a 48W and all-metal versions for those contemplating more serious work.
>
> Mine is transformable into six different functions, described by the vendor in Czechoslovakia as:
> "This 6 in 1 kit can be transformed into six different functional machines including jig-saw machine, drilling machine, sanding machine, wood-turning lathe, milling machine and metal lathe. The base of the machine is made of durable aluminum alloy and the external shell is made of engineering plastic. Since it can works with wood and acrylic as well as metals such as gold, silver, copper, aluminum, it is perfect for model making, art projects, DIY, and many other applications."
> More specs below my signature.
>
> The literature, professionally produced in very nice English with superb photographs, among other things show school children I judge to be maybe 8 years old at most using these lathes.
>
> I imagine it is a Chinese Copy of the Austrian Unimat small metal lathe, of which I had one decades ago which got left somewhere when I moved on -- I used to buy all kinds of tools and machinery on the company and use them when I wanted my mind to idle so it could be open to ideas out of left field, including a whole workbench in my office by my gym door; same thing other innovative executives do when they're sitting with their feet up apparently staring blankly out of the window, and I did the same when I was on loan to some other corporation than my home bases at the bank or the ad agencies. Someone in the accounts department would once a month over a weekend or when I was out of the office have a new carpet installed in my office, because machine oil just doesn't come out of wool. When I finished the project, I left all that stuff behind because it was no doubt charged with a loading to the people I consulted to, and therefore their property.
>
> My Chinese school kid's version was ostensibly made by Zhou Zu but Chinese are more prolific brand engineers than even British Motors Corporation at its silly peak, so a serious investigation of the source will probably find no-name Factory No 123245 made them all.
>
> I use it with Robert Sorbie tools, both full-size (I love the complete Sovereign Turnmaster Set which comes in a neatly fitted wooden box and has all the tools I need),
> https://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/woodturning/woodturning-sets/sovereign-sets/sov-rstmdbs-sovereign-turnmaster-set
> and doll's house size, which Sorbie calls the "18 Tool Modular Micro set", for wood and soft metals.
> https://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/woodturning/woodturning-sets/modular-micro-woodturning-tool-sets/a888hs18t-18-tool-modular-micro-set
> from which I basically use only four tools (the versatile teardrop that you can turn around for various cuts, Sorbie's clever thumbnail thingy which does the initial shaping, and the adaptor for the patterning wheelies, of which I have a full set, and of course the parter) plus the universal micro handle. I keep the ones I use with a couple of quickset inside and outside calipers in a zip up 5x9.6x1in leather case I made for the purpose, which slips into a pocket on the leather cover for the manual. Some of the other tools may be useful but I've learned to use these really clever and versatile tools and they do everything I've wanted until now. Less is more, as Eric Blair had the pig say.
>
> Andre Jute
> Mr Versatility.
>
> More details about the Chinese school lathe:
> Features:
> 6 in 1 multifunctional machine for meeting different needs
> Mini size for portable and easy operation
> 20000rpm for more effective
> Over-current, over-voltage and over-heating protection for more safe
> Made of aluminum, carbon steel and ABS for durable use
> Specifications:
> Current: 2A
> Power:24W (EU PLUG)
> Motor speed:20000rpm
> Input voltage: DC12V
> Material: Aluminum, Carbon Steel, ABS
> Weight:4.5kg
> Package size:49.5x39x12cm/19.49"x13.35"x4.72“
> Processing material length: 135mm
> Maximum diameter of processed materials: 20mm
> Center height: 25mm
> Machinable materials: wood, engineering plastics, soft metal (gold, silver, copper, aluminum, etc.).
>
> 1. Jig-Saw Machine
> Table Size: 90x90mm
> It can cut straight and curve lines
> Special design will cause slighter vibration.
> Motor blades and gear are made by metal structure for durable use
> Maximum Cutting Thickness: Hardwood- 4mm; Plywood- 7mm; Softwood- 18mm; Aluminum Sheeting- 0.5mm; Plexi-Glass- 2mm;
> 2. Drilling Machine
> Slide travel: 30mm and 50mm
> Clamp dimensions: 25X35mm
> Collet size: 1 to 6 mm
> Work space: 123x100mm
> Can be converted into a hand drill or hand grinding
> Adjustable angle from 0-180 degrees for flexible useIt can process wood, soft-aluminum, brass, copper, plastics, etc.
> 3. Sanding machine
> Working area: 123x100mm
> Equipped with a small grinding wheel and grinding wheel cover, it can be used for polishing, grinding, also can undertake various handheld angle grinding.
> 4. Wood-turning Lathe
> Maximum diameter of processed materials: 45mm
> Length of processing materials: 135mm
> 5. Milling Machine
> Slide travel: 30-50mm
> Collect size: 1 to 6 mm
> Clamping dimension: 30mm
> Adopt a milling cutter for more effective.
> Milling machine can be transformed to X, Y, Z three dimensional space operation.
> 6. Metal Lathe
> 3-jaw chuck (self-centering)
> Length of Processing Materials: 135mm
> The maximum diameter of the processed Materials: 20mm
> Maintenance：
> Fix the machine on the board or other table. Shot off the power when not use.
> Wear protect goggles when operating the machine.
> Keep its surface clean and dry, maintain the machine and lubricate the motive parts in time.
> Package Included:
> 1 X 6 In 1 Mini Multifunctional Machine
> 1 X Instruction Book
>
> All for 99 bucks with free delivery and sales taxes paid!

On Friday, March 11, 2022 at 4:30:28 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> While y'all are nattering on about fixing up irrelevant elitist lathes
> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/b3GF-w0VG5g
> the Chinese simply made several million small lathes and used them to teach primary school children how to operate a lathe.
>
> I bought one that could be kept in my studio at home to use as a first-approach lathe for items I would send to the precision lathes in a prototype shop I financed back in the nineties of the last century and the noughties of this one when I did a lot of industrial design work, mainly in the automobile and ultrafi audio fields. It cost 99 Euro delivered to my door carriage and VAT paid. There is also a slightly more expensive all-metal version, which was sold out when I ordered. Furthermore, the base version is available in 6, 8 and umpteen transformations to other machines, single function versions being also available. There are also a 48W and all-metal versions for those contemplating more serious work.
>
> Mine is transformable into six different functions, described by the vendor in Czechoslovakia as:
> "This 6 in 1 kit can be transformed into six different functional machines including jig-saw machine, drilling machine, sanding machine, wood-turning lathe, milling machine and metal lathe. The base of the machine is made of durable aluminum alloy and the external shell is made of engineering plastic. Since it can works with wood and acrylic as well as metals such as gold, silver, copper, aluminum, it is perfect for model making, art projects, DIY, and many other applications."
> More specs below my signature.
>
> The literature, professionally produced in very nice English with superb photographs, among other things show school children I judge to be maybe 8 years old at most using these lathes.
>
> I imagine it is a Chinese Copy of the Austrian Unimat small metal lathe, of which I had one decades ago which got left somewhere when I moved on -- I used to buy all kinds of tools and machinery on the company and use them when I wanted my mind to idle so it could be open to ideas out of left field, including a whole workbench in my office by my gym door; same thing other innovative executives do when they're sitting with their feet up apparently staring blankly out of the window, and I did the same when I was on loan to some other corporation than my home bases at the bank or the ad agencies. Someone in the accounts department would once a month over a weekend or when I was out of the office have a new carpet installed in my office, because machine oil just doesn't come out of wool. When I finished the project, I left all that stuff behind because it was no doubt charged with a loading to the people I consulted to, and therefore their property.
>
> My Chinese school kid's version was ostensibly made by Zhou Zu but Chinese are more prolific brand engineers than even British Motors Corporation at its silly peak, so a serious investigation of the source will probably find no-name Factory No 123245 made them all.
>
> I use it with Robert Sorbie tools, both full-size (I love the complete Sovereign Turnmaster Set which comes in a neatly fitted wooden box and has all the tools I need),
> https://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/woodturning/woodturning-sets/sovereign-sets/sov-rstmdbs-sovereign-turnmaster-set
> and doll's house size, which Sorbie calls the "18 Tool Modular Micro set", for wood and soft metals.
> https://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/woodturning/woodturning-sets/modular-micro-woodturning-tool-sets/a888hs18t-18-tool-modular-micro-set
> from which I basically use only four tools (the versatile teardrop that you can turn around for various cuts, Sorbie's clever thumbnail thingy which does the initial shaping, and the adaptor for the patterning wheelies, of which I have a full set, and of course the parter) plus the universal micro handle. I keep the ones I use with a couple of quickset inside and outside calipers in a zip up 5x9.6x1in leather case I made for the purpose, which slips into a pocket on the leather cover for the manual. Some of the other tools may be useful but I've learned to use these really clever and versatile tools and they do everything I've wanted until now. Less is more, as Eric Blair had the pig say.
>
> Andre Jute
> Mr Versatility.
>
> More details about the Chinese school lathe:
> Features:
> 6 in 1 multifunctional machine for meeting different needs
> Mini size for portable and easy operation
> 20000rpm for more effective
> Over-current, over-voltage and over-heating protection for more safe
> Made of aluminum, carbon steel and ABS for durable use
> Specifications:
> Current: 2A
> Power:24W (EU PLUG)
> Motor speed:20000rpm
> Input voltage: DC12V
> Material: Aluminum, Carbon Steel, ABS
> Weight:4.5kg
> Package size:49.5x39x12cm/19.49"x13.35"x4.72“
> Processing material length: 135mm
> Maximum diameter of processed materials: 20mm
> Center height: 25mm
> Machinable materials: wood, engineering plastics, soft metal (gold, silver, copper, aluminum, etc.).
>
> 1. Jig-Saw Machine
> Table Size: 90x90mm
> It can cut straight and curve lines
> Special design will cause slighter vibration.
> Motor blades and gear are made by metal structure for durable use
> Maximum Cutting Thickness: Hardwood- 4mm; Plywood- 7mm; Softwood- 18mm; Aluminum Sheeting- 0.5mm; Plexi-Glass- 2mm;
> 2. Drilling Machine
> Slide travel: 30mm and 50mm
> Clamp dimensions: 25X35mm
> Collet size: 1 to 6 mm
> Work space: 123x100mm
> Can be converted into a hand drill or hand grinding
> Adjustable angle from 0-180 degrees for flexible useIt can process wood, soft-aluminum, brass, copper, plastics, etc.
> 3. Sanding machine
> Working area: 123x100mm
> Equipped with a small grinding wheel and grinding wheel cover, it can be used for polishing, grinding, also can undertake various handheld angle grinding.
> 4. Wood-turning Lathe
> Maximum diameter of processed materials: 45mm
> Length of processing materials: 135mm
> 5. Milling Machine
> Slide travel: 30-50mm
> Collect size: 1 to 6 mm
> Clamping dimension: 30mm
> Adopt a milling cutter for more effective.
> Milling machine can be transformed to X, Y, Z three dimensional space operation.
> 6. Metal Lathe
> 3-jaw chuck (self-centering)
> Length of Processing Materials: 135mm
> The maximum diameter of the processed Materials: 20mm
> Maintenance：
> Fix the machine on the board or other table. Shot off the power when not use.
> Wear protect goggles when operating the machine.
> Keep its surface clean and dry, maintain the machine and lubricate the motive parts in time.
> Package Included:
> 1 X 6 In 1 Mini Multifunctional Machine
> 1 X Instruction Book
>
> All for 99 bucks with free delivery and sales taxes paid!

I learned the use of all machine tools in high school with top of the line tools though some obviously left over from war production. What I found is that because of these tools production of the most finely detailed and accurate parts could be built to fairly closed specifications which seemed to be limited only by the ability of the machinist to sharpen the cutting tools and make sure not to exceed the temperatures which would lead to excessive wear on these cutting heads.

But I very much preferred the way that electronics was performed before they started believing that an engineer should do everything from designing circuit boards to soldering components onto them. Of course they came up with board design software but since I started at the bottom and worked my way up I could plainly see that these software designed boards were poorly designed and often led to making a design appear to be a bad design when it was only due to cross coupling of signals. Manual board design by a competent designer was worlds better though you had to pay for an extra person. And no engineer could pay attention to everything else without a technician to build the board. The cheapening of the skilled labor is one of the losses of the corporate belief system.

On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 04:30:26 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
<fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>While y'all are nattering on about fixing up irrelevant elitist lathes
>https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/b3GF-w0VG5g
>the Chinese simply made several million small lathes and used them to teach primary school children how to operate a lathe.
(...)
>More details about the Chinese school lathe:
>Features:
>6 in 1 multifunctional machine for meeting different needs
>Mini size for portable and easy operation
>20000rpm for more effective
>Over-current, over-voltage and over-heating protection for more safe
>Made of aluminum, carbon steel and ABS for durable use
>Specifications:
>Current: 2A
>Power:24W (EU PLUG)
>Motor speed:20000rpm
>Input voltage: DC12V
>Material: Aluminum, Carbon Steel, ABS
>Weight:4.5kg
>Package size:49.5x39x12cm/19.49"x13.35"x4.72“
>Processing material length: 135mm
>Maximum diameter of processed materials: 20mm
>Center height: 25mm
>Machinable materials: wood, engineering plastics, soft metal (gold, silver, copper, aluminum, etc.).
(...)
>All for 99 bucks with free delivery and sales taxes paid!

Looks at the specs. Your Chinese lathe is a toy. Max workpiece
diameter of 20mm (0.79 inches)? 24 watt (0.032 horsepower)? Perhaps
it can be used as a jewelers or watchmkaers lathe:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=jewelers+lathe&tbm=isch>

Even if I wanted a $99 lathe, it couldn't be legally imported into the
US at the time. Between the Korean War starting in 1949 and when
China invited the US Ping-Pong team to compete in China in 1970, there
was no trade or diplomatic relations between the US and China. None,
zero, zilch trade.

The restrictions were eventually relaxed by Nixon's visit to China in
1972, Jimmy Carter arranging a trade agreement in 1979, which was
formalized by Ronald Reagan in the 1980's. It took most of the 1960's
and 1970's for the details of containerized bulk transport to be
standardized. Trade with China became big enough to support $99
lathes after about 1980, just in time for US industry to outsource
itself to the far east.

Meanwhile, during the 1960's, I was in school learning to cut metal on
various US made machine tools. As I recall, in high skool, I took
multiple "shop" classes, including machine shop. I later went to a
college where I worked with additional machines and learned welding,
construction, tractor mechanics, electronics, etc. The equipment was
all high quality US made machines.

Today, the trend is to not teach anything in high skool or college
that might get the students hands dirty. Shop machinery experience is
rare or absent. The reasons for this trend are beyond the scope of
this rant. The availability of a $99 lathe wouldn't have made much
difference.

The local Jr College had nothing that resembled a machine shop class
for about 20 years. In 2015, a used Bridgeport mill and some other
shop tools were donated:
<https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2014/12/19/cabrillo-college-unveils-new-machining-course/>
Notice the lack of CNC hardware, no visible tooling, no lubricant, the
workpiece is clamped too high in the vise, the instructor leaning on
the mill table while it's running, and the caption reading:
"...using a drill press to grind metal in the first of its kind
machine shop course"
It's a vertical mill, not a drill press and neither is used to "grind"
metal. The finished aluminum cube looks awful. I guess when raising
the dead, one has to start at the beginning.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 2:01:00 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 04:30:26 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >While y'all are nattering on about fixing up irrelevant elitist lathes
> >https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/b3GF-w0VG5g
> >the Chinese simply made several million small lathes and used them to teach primary school children how to operate a lathe.
> (...)
> >More details about the Chinese school lathe:
> >Features:
> >6 in 1 multifunctional machine for meeting different needs
> >Mini size for portable and easy operation
> >20000rpm for more effective
> >Over-current, over-voltage and over-heating protection for more safe
> >Made of aluminum, carbon steel and ABS for durable use
> >Specifications:
> >Current: 2A
> >Power:24W (EU PLUG)
> >Motor speed:20000rpm
> >Input voltage: DC12V
> >Material: Aluminum, Carbon Steel, ABS
> >Weight:4.5kg
> >Package size:49.5x39x12cm/19.49"x13.35"x4.72“
> >Processing material length: 135mm
> >Maximum diameter of processed materials: 20mm
> >Center height: 25mm
> >Machinable materials: wood, engineering plastics, soft metal (gold, silver, copper, aluminum, etc.).
> (...)
> >All for 99 bucks with free delivery and sales taxes paid!
> Looks at the specs. Your Chinese lathe is a toy. Max workpiece
> diameter of 20mm (0.79 inches)? 24 watt (0.032 horsepower)? Perhaps
> it can be used as a jewelers or watchmkaers lathe:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=jewelers+lathe&tbm=isch>
>
> Even if I wanted a $99 lathe, it couldn't be legally imported into the
> US at the time. Between the Korean War starting in 1949 and when
> China invited the US Ping-Pong team to compete in China in 1970, there
> was no trade or diplomatic relations between the US and China. None,
> zero, zilch trade.

https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=lathe
No $99 Chinese lathes in 2022. $300 for a Chinese wood lathe. $780 for a Chinese metal lathe.

>
> The restrictions were eventually relaxed by Nixon's visit to China in
> 1972, Jimmy Carter arranging a trade agreement in 1979, which was
> formalized by Ronald Reagan in the 1980's. It took most of the 1960's
> and 1970's for the details of containerized bulk transport to be
> standardized. Trade with China became big enough to support $99
> lathes after about 1980, just in time for US industry to outsource
> itself to the far east.
>
> Meanwhile, during the 1960's, I was in school learning to cut metal on
> various US made machine tools. As I recall, in high skool, I took
> multiple "shop" classes, including machine shop. I later went to a
> college where I worked with additional machines and learned welding,
> construction, tractor mechanics, electronics, etc. The equipment was
> all high quality US made machines.
>
> Today, the trend is to not teach anything in high skool or college
> that might get the students hands dirty. Shop machinery experience is
> rare or absent. The reasons for this trend are beyond the scope of
> this rant. The availability of a $99 lathe wouldn't have made much
> difference.
>
> The local Jr College had nothing that resembled a machine shop class
> for about 20 years. In 2015, a used Bridgeport mill and some other
> shop tools were donated:
> <https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2014/12/19/cabrillo-college-unveils-new-machining-course/>
> Notice the lack of CNC hardware, no visible tooling, no lubricant, the
> workpiece is clamped too high in the vise, the instructor leaning on
> the mill table while it's running, and the caption reading:
> "...using a drill press to grind metal in the first of its kind
> machine shop course"
> It's a vertical mill, not a drill press and neither is used to "grind"
> metal. The finished aluminum cube looks awful. I guess when raising
> the dead, one has to start at the beginning.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 15:28:12 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 2:01:00 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:

>> Even if I wanted a $99 lathe, it couldn't be legally imported into the
>> US at the time. Between the Korean War starting in 1949 and when
>> China invited the US Ping-Pong team to compete in China in 1970, there
>> was no trade or diplomatic relations between the US and China. None,
>> zero, zilch trade.

>https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=lathe
>No $99 Chinese lathes in 2022. $300 for a Chinese wood lathe. $780 for a Chinese metal lathe.

They're still a bargain.
<https://www.usinflationcalculator.com>
The $99 lathe in 1970 now costs $724 or 631.2% inflation (ignoring
accessories, stand, tooling, taxes, duty, shipping, import duty, trade
wars, and supply chain problems).

For building back yard factories, methinks a mill is more useful:
<https://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed-variable-bench-mill-drill-machine-44991.html>

Topic derailment: I think I know where the $99 lathe was put to use.
I am blessed with two finches, which have decided to fabricate their
nests in the walls of my house. They somehow succeeded in bashing
almost perfect rectangular holes in my redwood siding, which could
only have been done with the aid of precision machinery. They then
ejected the fiberglass insulation, the remains of which now decorates
my deck and hillside. Both nests are perfectly sited so as to be
inaccessible to egg eating critters, such as the local roof rats and
wood rats. No photos yet while I debate how to install cameras
without disturbing the nest. To be continued.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 12:00:50 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 04:30:26 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
><fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>While y'all are nattering on about fixing up irrelevant elitist lathes
>>https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/b3GF-w0VG5g
>>the Chinese simply made several million small lathes and used them to teach primary school children how to operate a lathe.
>(...)
>>More details about the Chinese school lathe:
>>Features:
>>6 in 1 multifunctional machine for meeting different needs
>>Mini size for portable and easy operation
>>20000rpm for more effective
>>Over-current, over-voltage and over-heating protection for more safe
>>Made of aluminum, carbon steel and ABS for durable use
>>Specifications:
>>Current: 2A
>>Power:24W (EU PLUG)
>>Motor speed:20000rpm
>>Input voltage: DC12V
>>Material: Aluminum, Carbon Steel, ABS
>>Weight:4.5kg
>>Package size:49.5x39x12cm/19.49"x13.35"x4.72“
>>Processing material length: 135mm
>>Maximum diameter of processed materials: 20mm
>>Center height: 25mm
>>Machinable materials: wood, engineering plastics, soft metal (gold, silver, copper, aluminum, etc.).
>(...)
>>All for 99 bucks with free delivery and sales taxes paid!
>
>Looks at the specs. Your Chinese lathe is a toy. Max workpiece
>diameter of 20mm (0.79 inches)? 24 watt (0.032 horsepower)? Perhaps
>it can be used as a jewelers or watchmkaers lathe:
><https://www.google.com/search?q=jewelers+lathe&tbm=isch>
>
>Even if I wanted a $99 lathe, it couldn't be legally imported into the
>US at the time. Between the Korean War starting in 1949 and when
>China invited the US Ping-Pong team to compete in China in 1970, there
>was no trade or diplomatic relations between the US and China. None,
>zero, zilch trade.
>
>The restrictions were eventually relaxed by Nixon's visit to China in
>1972, Jimmy Carter arranging a trade agreement in 1979, which was
>formalized by Ronald Reagan in the 1980's. It took most of the 1960's
>and 1970's for the details of containerized bulk transport to be
>standardized. Trade with China became big enough to support $99
>lathes after about 1980, just in time for US industry to outsource
>itself to the far east.
>
>Meanwhile, during the 1960's, I was in school learning to cut metal on
>various US made machine tools. As I recall, in high skool, I took
>multiple "shop" classes, including machine shop. I later went to a
>college where I worked with additional machines and learned welding,
>construction, tractor mechanics, electronics, etc. The equipment was
>all high quality US made machines.
>
>Today, the trend is to not teach anything in high skool or college
>that might get the students hands dirty. Shop machinery experience is
>rare or absent. The reasons for this trend are beyond the scope of
>this rant. The availability of a $99 lathe wouldn't have made much
>difference.
>
Actually, I'm not sure that the Chinese Economy in 1979 was ready for
any major foreign trade. Exports only amounted to 5.1% of GDP in 1979.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 7:01:00 PM UTC, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 04:30:26 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >While y'all are nattering on about fixing up irrelevant elitist lathes
> >https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/b3GF-w0VG5g
> >the Chinese simply made several million small lathes and used them to teach primary school children how to operate a lathe.
> (...)
> >More details about the Chinese school lathe:
> >Features:
> >6 in 1 multifunctional machine for meeting different needs
> >Mini size for portable and easy operation
> >20000rpm for more effective
> >Over-current, over-voltage and over-heating protection for more safe
> >Made of aluminum, carbon steel and ABS for durable use
> >Specifications:
> >Current: 2A
> >Power:24W (EU PLUG)
> >Motor speed:20000rpm
> >Input voltage: DC12V
> >Material: Aluminum, Carbon Steel, ABS
> >Weight:4.5kg
> >Package size:49.5x39x12cm/19.49"x13.35"x4.72“
> >Processing material length: 135mm
> >Maximum diameter of processed materials: 20mm
> >Center height: 25mm
> >Machinable materials: wood, engineering plastics, soft metal (gold, silver, copper, aluminum, etc.).
> (...)
> >All for 99 bucks with free delivery and sales taxes paid!
>
> Looks at the specs. Your Chinese lathe is a toy.

I told you it is a toy, Jeff. But an educational toy.

>Max workpiece
> diameter of 20mm (0.79 inches)? 24 watt (0.032 horsepower)? Perhaps
> it can be used as a jewelers or watchmkaers lathe:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=jewelers+lathe&tbm=isch>

I had a twenty grand or thereabout Bergeon watchmaker's lathe once. It's specs, from memory, were about the same.

But you have the whole concept wrong. This a very serious toy, a tool to build other toys, for instance to carve the spindles for doll's house furniture.
> Even if I wanted a $99 lathe, it couldn't be legally imported into the
> US at the time. Between the Korean War starting in 1949 and when
> China invited the US Ping-Pong team to compete in China in 1970, there
> was no trade or diplomatic relations between the US and China. None,
> zero, zilch trade.
>
> The restrictions were eventually relaxed by Nixon's visit to China in
> 1972, Jimmy Carter arranging a trade agreement in 1979, which was
> formalized by Ronald Reagan in the 1980's. It took most of the 1960's
> and 1970's for the details of containerized bulk transport to be
> standardized. Trade with China became big enough to support $99
> lathes after about 1980, just in time for US industry to outsource
> itself to the far east.
>
> Meanwhile, during the 1960's, I was in school learning to cut metal on
> various US made machine tools. As I recall, in high skool, I took
> multiple "shop" classes, including machine shop. I later went to a
> college where I worked with additional machines and learned welding,
> construction, tractor mechanics, electronics, etc. The equipment was
> all high quality US made machines.
>
> Today, the trend is to not teach anything in high skool or college
> that might get the students hands dirty. Shop machinery experience is
> rare or absent. The reasons for this trend are beyond the scope of
> this rant. The availability of a $99 lathe wouldn't have made much
> difference.
>
> The local Jr College had nothing that resembled a machine shop class
> for about 20 years. In 2015, a used Bridgeport mill and some other
> shop tools were donated:
> <https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2014/12/19/cabrillo-college-unveils-new-machining-course/>
> Notice the lack of CNC hardware, no visible tooling, no lubricant, the
> workpiece is clamped too high in the vise, the instructor leaning on
> the mill table while it's running, and the caption reading:
> "...using a drill press to grind metal in the first of its kind
> machine shop course"
> It's a vertical mill, not a drill press and neither is used to "grind"
> metal. The finished aluminum cube looks awful. I guess when raising
> the dead, one has to start at the beginning.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

I enjoyed the history lesson, Jeff.

Andre Jute
The perfect is the enemy of the best.

On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 10:28:14 PM UTC, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:

> https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=lathe
> No $99 Chinese lathes in 2022. $300 for a Chinese wood lathe. $780 for a Chinese metal lathe.
>
You're the perfect victim for Harbor Freight, Russell, a blusterer too shortsighted to look past the end of his nose. Check the prices for whatever you were looking at on Harbour Freight on Aliexpress. The difference in the price at your door is what the Chinese will give you for waiting for delivery for a few weeks. -- AJ
>
Anyway, it's a toy lathe, just like Jeff says. If you're as clumsy with it as you are the antisocial media, you'd better buy the all-metal version, which is substantially more expensive.
>
Andre Jute
Tool fondler.
>

On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 11:43:30 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 7:01:00 PM UTC, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 04:30:26 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
> > <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >While y'all are nattering on about fixing up irrelevant elitist lathes
> > >https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/b3GF-w0VG5g
> > >the Chinese simply made several million small lathes and used them to teach primary school children how to operate a lathe.
> > (...)
> > >More details about the Chinese school lathe:
> > >Features:
> > >6 in 1 multifunctional machine for meeting different needs
> > >Mini size for portable and easy operation
> > >20000rpm for more effective
> > >Over-current, over-voltage and over-heating protection for more safe
> > >Made of aluminum, carbon steel and ABS for durable use
> > >Specifications:
> > >Current: 2A
> > >Power:24W (EU PLUG)
> > >Motor speed:20000rpm
> > >Input voltage: DC12V
> > >Material: Aluminum, Carbon Steel, ABS
> > >Weight:4.5kg
> > >Package size:49.5x39x12cm/19.49"x13.35"x4.72“
> > >Processing material length: 135mm
> > >Maximum diameter of processed materials: 20mm
> > >Center height: 25mm
> > >Machinable materials: wood, engineering plastics, soft metal (gold, silver, copper, aluminum, etc.).
> > (...)
> > >All for 99 bucks with free delivery and sales taxes paid!
> >
> > Looks at the specs. Your Chinese lathe is a toy.
> I told you it is a toy, Jeff. But an educational toy.
> >Max workpiece
> > diameter of 20mm (0.79 inches)? 24 watt (0.032 horsepower)? Perhaps
> > it can be used as a jewelers or watchmkaers lathe:
> > <https://www.google.com/search?q=jewelers+lathe&tbm=isch>
> I had a twenty grand or thereabout Bergeon watchmaker's lathe once. It's specs, from memory, were about the same.
>
> But you have the whole concept wrong. This a very serious toy, a tool to build other toys, for instance to carve the spindles for doll's house furniture.
> > Even if I wanted a $99 lathe, it couldn't be legally imported into the
> > US at the time. Between the Korean War starting in 1949 and when
> > China invited the US Ping-Pong team to compete in China in 1970, there
> > was no trade or diplomatic relations between the US and China. None,
> > zero, zilch trade.
> >
> > The restrictions were eventually relaxed by Nixon's visit to China in
> > 1972, Jimmy Carter arranging a trade agreement in 1979, which was
> > formalized by Ronald Reagan in the 1980's. It took most of the 1960's
> > and 1970's for the details of containerized bulk transport to be
> > standardized. Trade with China became big enough to support $99
> > lathes after about 1980, just in time for US industry to outsource
> > itself to the far east.
> >
> > Meanwhile, during the 1960's, I was in school learning to cut metal on
> > various US made machine tools. As I recall, in high skool, I took
> > multiple "shop" classes, including machine shop. I later went to a
> > college where I worked with additional machines and learned welding,
> > construction, tractor mechanics, electronics, etc. The equipment was
> > all high quality US made machines.
> >
> > Today, the trend is to not teach anything in high skool or college
> > that might get the students hands dirty. Shop machinery experience is
> > rare or absent. The reasons for this trend are beyond the scope of
> > this rant. The availability of a $99 lathe wouldn't have made much
> > difference.
> >
> > The local Jr College had nothing that resembled a machine shop class
> > for about 20 years. In 2015, a used Bridgeport mill and some other
> > shop tools were donated:
> > <https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2014/12/19/cabrillo-college-unveils-new-machining-course/>
> > Notice the lack of CNC hardware, no visible tooling, no lubricant, the
> > workpiece is clamped too high in the vise, the instructor leaning on
> > the mill table while it's running, and the caption reading:
> > "...using a drill press to grind metal in the first of its kind
> > machine shop course"
> > It's a vertical mill, not a drill press and neither is used to "grind"
> > metal. The finished aluminum cube looks awful. I guess when raising
> > the dead, one has to start at the beginning.
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> > PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> > Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
> I enjoyed the history lesson, Jeff.
>
> Andre Jute
> The perfect is the enemy of the best.

By Jeff's value system, my $30 ultrasonic cleaner is also a toy. Yet it cleans the chain off of my bike perfectly and gives me a perfectly clean chain to put in the hot pot of very liquid wax in the end of which gives me a chain so slippery that it is very difficult to install the quick link. This wax job lasts for a couple of months so that none of my bikes has worn out a cassette in years, Funny think how toys work.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 11:43:28 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 7:01:00 PM UTC, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 04:30:26 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
>> Looks at the specs. Your Chinese lathe is a toy.
>
>I told you it is a toy, Jeff. But an educational toy.

You never mentioned toy in any of your 4 postings on the topic.
However, you did eventually provide a link to the lathe at:
<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003354038500.html>
which is obviously a toy. My apologies for missing the connection. My
point was that even if this $99 toy was available between 1949 and
about 1980, it could not have been imported into the USA from China.
Considering the frenzy in the USA to produce as many engineers and
scientists after Sputnik was launched in 1957, such a toy might have
been a useful learning tool. However, the educational establishment
decided a centralized approach of a shop full of modern machinery was
better than a distributed approach of handing out toy machine tools. I
can thank the educational establishment for this decision as I was
able to learn useful skills on genuine machinery instead of toys.
Knowing how to use a toy lathe does not look good on a resume or job
application.

>I had a twenty grand or thereabout Bergeon watchmaker's lathe once. It's specs, from memory, were about the same.

Nice. It's now probably worth even more:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=bergeon+lathe&_sacat=0&rt=nc&_udlo=9%2C000>
My father and I built something similar out of old industrial sewing
machine parts. However, we saved money by using a series of pin vises
instead of collets.

>But you have the whole concept wrong. This a very serious toy, a tool to build other toys, for instance to carve the spindles for doll's house furniture.

Sure. It could be serious for a maybe up to a 10 year old kid. Beyond
that, its limitations would rapidly erode its value as a learning aid.
I took a closer look at the AliExpress page and played the video. All
the basic mill and lathe principles are there except a power feed and
variable speed motor. A 10 year old could learn from it and maybe
make some wood or plastic things with it. After that, it goes in the
junk box along with a Erector set while waiting for something bigger
and better. I don't see this having a big effect on the USA's
position in the Cold War or in education.

>I enjoyed the history lesson, Jeff.

You're welcome.

>Andre Jute
>The perfect is the enemy of the best.

Perfection cannot be achieved without a target.

Perfection can only be achieved after the required delivery date.

Perfection is the art of taking an imperfect product specification,
manifested as an imperfect design, by following an imperfect drawing,
using imperfect materials, inspected with imperfect metrology tools,
and sold to a far from perfect customer. Perfection then becomes the
art of pounding on the device with a larger than necessary blunt
instrument until an approximation of perfection can be declared.

No tolerance is good enough for the intolerant.

Perfection is mostly dealing with the differences between accuracy and
precision.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision>

Quality, price, on-time. Pick two.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 9:52:06 PM UTC, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 11:43:28 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, March 25, 2022 at 7:01:00 PM UTC, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 04:30:26 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
> >> Looks at the specs. Your Chinese lathe is a toy.
> >
> >I told you it is a toy, Jeff. But an educational toy.
> You never mentioned toy in any of your 4 postings on the topic.
> However, you did eventually provide a link to the lathe at:
> <https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003354038500.html>
> which is obviously a toy. My apologies for missing the connection. My
> point was that even if this $99 toy was available between 1949 and
> about 1980, it could not have been imported into the USA from China.
> Considering the frenzy in the USA to produce as many engineers and
> scientists after Sputnik was launched in 1957, such a toy might have
> been a useful learning tool. However, the educational establishment
> decided a centralized approach of a shop full of modern machinery was
> better than a distributed approach of handing out toy machine tools. I
> can thank the educational establishment for this decision as I was
> able to learn useful skills on genuine machinery instead of toys.
> Knowing how to use a toy lathe does not look good on a resume or job
> application.
> >I had a twenty grand or thereabout Bergeon watchmaker's lathe once. It's specs, from memory, were about the same.
> Nice. It's now probably worth even more:
> <https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=bergeon+lathe&_sacat=0&rt=nc&_udlo=9%2C000>
> My father and I built something similar out of old industrial sewing
> machine parts. However, we saved money by using a series of pin vises
> instead of collets.
> >But you have the whole concept wrong. This a very serious toy, a tool to build other toys, for instance to carve the spindles for doll's house furniture.
> Sure. It could be serious for a maybe up to a 10 year old kid. Beyond
> that, its limitations would rapidly erode its value as a learning aid.
> I took a closer look at the AliExpress page and played the video. All
> the basic mill and lathe principles are there except a power feed and
> variable speed motor. A 10 year old could learn from it and maybe
> make some wood or plastic things with it. After that, it goes in the
> junk box along with a Erector set while waiting for something bigger
> and better. I don't see this having a big effect on the USA's
> position in the Cold War or in education.
> >I enjoyed the history lesson, Jeff.
> You're welcome.
> >Andre Jute
> >The perfect is the enemy of the best.
> Perfection cannot be achieved without a target.
>
> Perfection can only be achieved after the required delivery date.
>
> Perfection is the art of taking an imperfect product specification,
> manifested as an imperfect design, by following an imperfect drawing,
> using imperfect materials, inspected with imperfect metrology tools,
> and sold to a far from perfect customer. Perfection then becomes the
> art of pounding on the device with a larger than necessary blunt
> instrument until an approximation of perfection can be declared.
>
> No tolerance is good enough for the intolerant.
>
> Perfection is mostly dealing with the differences between accuracy and
> precision.
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision>
>
> Quality, price, on-time. Pick two.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
Everybody channels Colin Chapman. He'd have turned that into a 59 dollar lathe with an even more limited spec.