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tech / rec.bicycles.tech / Re: Dropper Seatpost

SubjectAuthor
* Dropper SeatpostAndre Jute
`* Re: Dropper SeatpostRoger Merriman
 +* Re: Dropper SeatpostLou Holtman
 |+- Re: Dropper SeatpostLou Holtman
 |+* Re: Dropper SeatpostRoger Merriman
 ||`- Re: Dropper Seatpostfunkma...@hotmail.com
 |`- Re: Dropper SeatpostAMuzi
 `* Re: Dropper SeatpostTom Kunich
  +- Re: Dropper SeatpostAndre Jute
  `- Re: Dropper SeatpostRoger Merriman

1
Dropper Seatpost

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Subject: Dropper Seatpost
From: fiult...@yahoo.com (Andre Jute)
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 by: Andre Jute - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 15:27 UTC

My understanding of the dropper seat post, from years ago when I looked into it briefly to see if I needed or wanted one, was that it is released from full set extension by a control, say a button on the handlebars operating a cable, in the imminent approach of a possibly hurtful incident*, and drops down into the seat tube, thus making it easier to jump from the bike or at least to fall clear of it.
>
* Motor racers don't like the word "accident", implying as it does an avoidable error of judgement or reaction, so I presume extreme mountain bikers don't either. The use of "incident" instead implies an error by someone else or, since they could still be in good enough fettle to blame you, best of all an Act of God.
>
I wonder if Joerg has a dropper seat post and if he has ever used it.
>
Whenever I've thought about the dropper post again, it was because the long tail of my foul-weather cycling jacket caught under my Brooks saddle in voluntary dismounts, in which case the dropper release would still be under my thumb. But that hasn't happened often enough to inspire me to source and buy the thing.
>
Andre Jute
It is significant that one's seat is described in polite usage as one's fundament.
>

Re: Dropper Seatpost

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From: rog...@sarlet.com (Roger Merriman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Dropper Seatpost
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 20:43:22 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Roger Merriman - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 20:43 UTC

Andre Jute <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> My understanding of the dropper seat post, from years ago when I looked
> into it briefly to see if I needed or wanted one, was that it is released
> from full set extension by a control, say a button on the handlebars
> operating a cable, in the imminent approach of a possibly hurtful
> incident*, and drops down into the seat tube, thus making it easier to
> jump from the bike or at least to fall clear of it.

No the intention is so the MTBer can move around the MTB without the saddle
in the way, generally only for very steep stuff.

Than being able to bail.

For roadies it’s seems to be way of legally getting into a aero tuck. Ie no
sitting on top tube!
>>
Snips
>>
> Andre Jute
> It is significant that one's seat is described in polite usage as one's fundament.
>>
>
Roger Merriman

Re: Dropper Seatpost

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Subject: Re: Dropper Seatpost
From: lou.holt...@gmail.com (Lou Holtman)
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 by: Lou Holtman - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:19 UTC

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 9:43:24 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > My understanding of the dropper seat post, from years ago when I looked
> > into it briefly to see if I needed or wanted one, was that it is released
> > from full set extension by a control, say a button on the handlebars
> > operating a cable, in the imminent approach of a possibly hurtful
> > incident*, and drops down into the seat tube, thus making it easier to
> > jump from the bike or at least to fall clear of it.
> No the intention is so the MTBer can move around the MTB without the saddle
> in the way, generally only for very steep stuff.
>
> Than being able to bail.
>
> For roadies it’s seems to be way of legally getting into a aero tuck. Ie no
> sitting on top tube!
> >>
> Snips
> >>
> > Andre Jute
> > It is significant that one's seat is described in polite usage as one's fundament.
> >>
> >
> Roger Merriman

If you watched the Milan San Remo classic (Primavera) last Saturday you saw it was decided in the last descent of the Poggio. Mohoric won. He had a dropper post. He is already very good in the descents, but the dropper post gave him a lot of confident to take the risks he took in that last descent. He won by 50-100 meters. For a pro rider it is a big deal to win a classic.

Lou

Re: Dropper Seatpost

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Subject: Re: Dropper Seatpost
From: lou.holt...@gmail.com (Lou Holtman)
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 by: Lou Holtman - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:22 UTC

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 8:19:49 AM UTC+1, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 9:43:24 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > My understanding of the dropper seat post, from years ago when I looked
> > > into it briefly to see if I needed or wanted one, was that it is released
> > > from full set extension by a control, say a button on the handlebars
> > > operating a cable, in the imminent approach of a possibly hurtful
> > > incident*, and drops down into the seat tube, thus making it easier to
> > > jump from the bike or at least to fall clear of it.
> > No the intention is so the MTBer can move around the MTB without the saddle
> > in the way, generally only for very steep stuff.
> >
> > Than being able to bail.
> >
> > For roadies it’s seems to be way of legally getting into a aero tuck. Ie no
> > sitting on top tube!
> > >>
> > Snips
> > >>
> > > Andre Jute
> > > It is significant that one's seat is described in polite usage as one's fundament.
> > >>
> > >
> > Roger Merriman

> If you watched the Milan San Remo classic (Primavera) last Saturday you saw it was decided in the last descent of the Poggio. Mohoric won. He had a dropper post. He is already very good in the descents, but the dropper post gave him a lot of confident to take the risks he took in that last descent.. He won by 50-100 meters. For a pro rider it is a big deal to win a classic.
>
> Lou

Oeps forgot to add the link:

https://nos.nl/artikel/2422142-won-mohoric-primavera-dankzij-verstelbare-zadelpen-hij-was-de-rest-te-slim-af

Lou

Re: Dropper Seatpost

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From: rog...@sarlet.com (Roger Merriman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Dropper Seatpost
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 12:17:12 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Roger Merriman - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 12:17 UTC

Lou Holtman <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 9:43:24 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> My understanding of the dropper seat post, from years ago when I looked
>>> into it briefly to see if I needed or wanted one, was that it is released
>>> from full set extension by a control, say a button on the handlebars
>>> operating a cable, in the imminent approach of a possibly hurtful
>>> incident*, and drops down into the seat tube, thus making it easier to
>>> jump from the bike or at least to fall clear of it.
>> No the intention is so the MTBer can move around the MTB without the saddle
>> in the way, generally only for very steep stuff.
>>
>> Than being able to bail.
>>
>> For roadies it’s seems to be way of legally getting into a aero tuck. Ie no
>> sitting on top tube!
>>>>
>> Snips
>>>>
>>> Andre Jute
>>> It is significant that one's seat is described in polite usage as one's fundament.
>>>>
>>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
>
> If you watched the Milan San Remo classic (Primavera) last Saturday you
> saw it was decided in the last descent of the Poggio. Mohoric won. He had
> a dropper post. He is already very good in the descents, but the dropper
> post gave him a lot of confident to take the risks he took in that last
> descent. He won by 50-100 meters. For a pro rider it is a big deal to win a classic.
>
> Lou
>

Yes I watched it, live or rather streaming! Impressive handling used the
full road, plus kerb at one point!

Not convinced the corners where where the dropper helped, but getting aero
for the straights it’s not a steep hill, but realistically if it gave him
the confidence then wether it technically helped or not is irrelevant,
since confidence is key to fast descents and he looked very much in
control, if at or close to the limit.

Roger Merriman

Re: Dropper Seatpost

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From: am...@yellowjersey.org (AMuzi)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Dropper Seatpost
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:58:31 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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 by: AMuzi - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:58 UTC

On 3/22/2022 2:19 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 9:43:24 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> My understanding of the dropper seat post, from years ago when I looked
>>> into it briefly to see if I needed or wanted one, was that it is released
>>> from full set extension by a control, say a button on the handlebars
>>> operating a cable, in the imminent approach of a possibly hurtful
>>> incident*, and drops down into the seat tube, thus making it easier to
>>> jump from the bike or at least to fall clear of it.
>> No the intention is so the MTBer can move around the MTB without the saddle
>> in the way, generally only for very steep stuff.
>>
>> Than being able to bail.
>>
>> For roadies it’s seems to be way of legally getting into a aero tuck. Ie no
>> sitting on top tube!
>>>>
>> Snips
>>>>
>>> Andre Jute
>>> It is significant that one's seat is described in polite usage as one's fundament.
>>>>
>>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
>
> If you watched the Milan San Remo classic (Primavera) last Saturday you saw it was decided in the last descent of the Poggio. Mohoric won. He had a dropper post. He is already very good in the descents, but the dropper post gave him a lot of confident to take the risks he took in that last descent. He won by 50-100 meters. For a pro rider it is a big deal to win a classic.
>
> Lou
>

+1
A spectacular victory.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Re: Dropper Seatpost

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Subject: Re: Dropper Seatpost
From: cyclin...@gmail.com (Tom Kunich)
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 by: Tom Kunich - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 14:09 UTC

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 1:43:24 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > My understanding of the dropper seat post, from years ago when I looked
> > into it briefly to see if I needed or wanted one, was that it is released
> > from full set extension by a control, say a button on the handlebars
> > operating a cable, in the imminent approach of a possibly hurtful
> > incident*, and drops down into the seat tube, thus making it easier to
> > jump from the bike or at least to fall clear of it.
> No the intention is so the MTBer can move around the MTB without the saddle
> in the way, generally only for very steep stuff.
>
> Than being able to bail.
>
> For roadies it’s seems to be way of legally getting into a aero tuck. Ie no
> sitting on top tube!
> >>
> Snips
> >>
> > Andre Jute
> > It is significant that one's seat is described in polite usage as one's fundament.
> >>
> >
> Roger Merriman

When using a dropper post you are forced to pedal standing. So that win is more a fluke of the course layout than any technical improvement in the aero advantage.

Re: Dropper Seatpost

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Subject: Re: Dropper Seatpost
From: fiult...@yahoo.com (Andre Jute)
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 by: Andre Jute - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 17:13 UTC

The UCI, which has the distinction of being the largest collection of luddites the world has ever seen, will put the kybosh on dropper posts in road racing. — AJ

Re: Dropper Seatpost

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From: rog...@sarlet.com (Roger Merriman)
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Subject: Re: Dropper Seatpost
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 18:21:25 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Roger Merriman - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 18:21 UTC

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 1:43:24 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> My understanding of the dropper seat post, from years ago when I looked
>>> into it briefly to see if I needed or wanted one, was that it is released
>>> from full set extension by a control, say a button on the handlebars
>>> operating a cable, in the imminent approach of a possibly hurtful
>>> incident*, and drops down into the seat tube, thus making it easier to
>>> jump from the bike or at least to fall clear of it.
>> No the intention is so the MTBer can move around the MTB without the saddle
>> in the way, generally only for very steep stuff.
>>
>> Than being able to bail.
>>
>> For roadies it’s seems to be way of legally getting into a aero tuck. Ie no
>> sitting on top tube!
>>>>
>> Snips
>>>>
>>> Andre Jute
>>> It is significant that one's seat is described in polite usage as one's fundament.
>>>>
>>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> When using a dropper post you are forced to pedal standing. So that win
> is more a fluke of the course layout than any technical improvement in the aero advantage.
>
I assume they do test these things in wind tunnels, personally I’m not
really interested in using a dropper at least on road.

Re: Dropper Seatpost

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Subject: Re: Dropper Seatpost
From: funkmast...@hotmail.com (funkma...@hotmail.com)
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 by: funkma...@hotmail.co - Wed, 23 Mar 2022 10:34 UTC

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 8:17:15 AM UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 9:43:24 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> My understanding of the dropper seat post, from years ago when I looked
> >>> into it briefly to see if I needed or wanted one, was that it is released
> >>> from full set extension by a control, say a button on the handlebars
> >>> operating a cable, in the imminent approach of a possibly hurtful
> >>> incident*, and drops down into the seat tube, thus making it easier to
> >>> jump from the bike or at least to fall clear of it.
> >> No the intention is so the MTBer can move around the MTB without the saddle
> >> in the way, generally only for very steep stuff.
> >>
> >> Than being able to bail.
> >>
> >> For roadies it’s seems to be way of legally getting into a aero tuck. Ie no
> >> sitting on top tube!
> >>>>
> >> Snips
> >>>>
> >>> Andre Jute
> >>> It is significant that one's seat is described in polite usage as one's fundament.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >
> >
> > If you watched the Milan San Remo classic (Primavera) last Saturday you
> > saw it was decided in the last descent of the Poggio. Mohoric won. He had
> > a dropper post. He is already very good in the descents, but the dropper
> > post gave him a lot of confident to take the risks he took in that last
> > descent. He won by 50-100 meters. For a pro rider it is a big deal to win a classic.
> >
> > Lou
> >
> Yes I watched it, live or rather streaming! Impressive handling used the
> full road, plus kerb at one point!
>
> Not convinced the corners where where the dropper helped, but getting aero
> for the straights it’s not a steep hill, but realistically if it gave him
> the confidence then wether it technically helped or not is irrelevant,
> since confidence is key to fast descents and he looked very much in
> control, if at or close to the limit.
>
> Roger Merriman

Mohoric was already known as a demon descender. The dropper post helps in the corners as it allows you to shift your weight back while keeping the center of gravity lower - this is something mountain bikers have known for many years. It did also help in getting a bit more aero on the straight sections in lieu of the ban on riding the top tube. The ability then to pop the seat back up for an efficient pedaling position gives you the best of both worlds. The post he was using wasn't an extreme version, it dropped the seat by 50 mm, so even pedaling with it dropped probably wasn't too far out of his comfort zone, especially noting the he said he spent many hours training with the post, learning when to drop it and when to raise it, in special preparation for Milan-San Remo. After the race, Tadejc Pogacar said Mohoric came up to him at one point in the race and said "don't try to follow me down the Poggio".

Besides that, Roger is spot-on with the intent of the dropper. It was originally intended to drop the post so the rider could shift way back over the rear wheel and keep the center of gravity low for the extreme technical drops. The cornering described above is an added benefit.

Of course there is no predicting the future whims of the UCI, but as of Mohorics victory the confirmed that dropper posts are explicitly legal.
https://www.uci.org/pressrelease/uci-statement-concerning-dropper-seatposts/52kLf7jfaTOGmPpAs4LFpD
"The UCI Equipment Commission approved the use of dropper seatposts in road cycling competitions in 2014. Their use is subject to the minimum 5cm setback rule of article 1.3.013 of the UCI Regulations, i.e., when the dropper seatpost is set to its highest or lowest setting, the saddle setback must be in full compliance with article 1.3.013."

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