Am 27.03.2022 um 05:06 schrieb John B.:
> But "capitalism", the exchange of goods and services for some tamable
> item or service, is practiced in the most primitive cultures. I
> suspect that it is probably the basis of civilization, in the sense of
> a group formed because it is a more efficient way of life.

Actually, most primitive cultures have a sort of "socialist capitalism":
you combine capitalist elements with social suppport on village level.
The balance between the two is mostly dependent on how much work tends
to be collaborative (building straw huts is easily done just with the
family while building alf-timbered houses you want 20 men of the village
to help each others; farming is easily done on family level while
hunting might combine all men of the village).

On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 3:46:19 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 26.03.2022 um 04:35 schrieb John B.:
> > On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 10:55:15 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >> Yes, inheritance is a critical property right for these
> >> purposes. Do not discount the public nature of a marriage
> >> contract which bears not only on property transfer at death
> >> but equally important to establish progeny (for estate
> >> disposition and other important areas).
> >
> > Actually I'm not sure about the "establish progeny" as I'm fairly sure
> > that the U.S. birth certificate has the name of both the mother and
> > father listed which I think might well be the determining factor.
> > Rather then who was married to whom.
>
> Well, my niece according to her Birth Certificate due to German law was
> not my niece.
> According to German law, the mother's husband is the established father
> of the child at birth;
> Only once the "original birth certificate" is issued, a man other than
> the mother's husband can claim to be the real father and an "adjusted
> birth certificate" is issued in a separate legal act.
Why do you suppose John is talking about this? Do you think that he is somehow trying to show everyone how bright he is with the use of Google (as usual)? He certainly wants to talk about my marriage a lot.

I will say that I did make a mistake with Russell, thinking about it, it was Flunky who claimed he was married after I accused him of being a queer. Though Russell's comments over and over again attempting to obtain some sort of superiority are exactly like those of an alpha queer. Perhaps he should just accept the inevitable and come out of the closet.

On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 4:44:01 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 27.03.2022 um 05:06 schrieb John B.:
> > But "capitalism", the exchange of goods and services for some tamable
> > item or service, is practiced in the most primitive cultures. I
> > suspect that it is probably the basis of civilization, in the sense of
> > a group formed because it is a more efficient way of life.
> Actually, most primitive cultures have a sort of "socialist capitalism":
> you combine capitalist elements with social suppport on village level.
> The balance between the two is mostly dependent on how much work tends
> to be collaborative (building straw huts is easily done just with the
> family while building alf-timbered houses you want 20 men of the village
> to help each others; farming is easily done on family level while
> hunting might combine all men of the village).
You sure have never been to Africa where there is NO socialist structure whatsoever in tribal villages. You don't share what you don't have. Doctors Without Borders and their like charities are busy DIGGING WELLS because most of the time women spend all day walking to carry water and neck injuries are common from trying to carry 6 gallons or so of water back home for the family needs. Perhaps you're thinking of a woman unable to carry water any longer that watches the children while mothers are gone and is paid in kind with water and other sustenance from the hunter/gatherer husband? My MD and another Dr. friend who owns a local winery so that he can afford to be a Doctor Without Border have had a lot to say about the extreme improvement in the lives of tribal Africa simply with a well so that they can grow food!

On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 7:38:11 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 4:44:01 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > Am 27.03.2022 um 05:06 schrieb John B.:
> > > But "capitalism", the exchange of goods and services for some tamable
> > > item or service, is practiced in the most primitive cultures. I
> > > suspect that it is probably the basis of civilization, in the sense of
> > > a group formed because it is a more efficient way of life.
> > Actually, most primitive cultures have a sort of "socialist capitalism":
> > you combine capitalist elements with social suppport on village level.
> > The balance between the two is mostly dependent on how much work tends
> > to be collaborative (building straw huts is easily done just with the
> > family while building alf-timbered houses you want 20 men of the village
> > to help each others; farming is easily done on family level while
> > hunting might combine all men of the village).
> You sure have never been to Africa where there is NO socialist structure whatsoever in tribal villages. You don't share what you don't have. Doctors Without Borders and their like charities are busy DIGGING WELLS because most of the time women spend all day walking to carry water and neck injuries are common from trying to carry 6 gallons or so of water back home for the family needs. Perhaps you're thinking of a woman unable to carry water any longer that watches the children while mothers are gone and is paid in kind with water and other sustenance from the hunter/gatherer husband? My MD and another Dr. friend who owns a local winery so that he can afford to be a Doctor Without Border have had a lot to say about the extreme improvement in the lives of tribal Africa simply with a well so that they can grow food!

And to get back to bicycle content, these same tribal villages can benefit greatly with a means of cheap transportation - bicycles. Think of all of the commuter bicycles that are thrown away as unserviceable when all they need is a small amount of work to turn them into something that can improve the life of someone 100%?

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 13:43:58 +0200, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:

>Am 27.03.2022 um 05:06 schrieb John B.:
>> But "capitalism", the exchange of goods and services for some tamable
>> item or service, is practiced in the most primitive cultures. I
>> suspect that it is probably the basis of civilization, in the sense of
>> a group formed because it is a more efficient way of life.
>
>Actually, most primitive cultures have a sort of "socialist capitalism":
>you combine capitalist elements with social suppport on village level.
>The balance between the two is mostly dependent on how much work tends
>to be collaborative (building straw huts is easily done just with the
>family while building alf-timbered houses you want 20 men of the village
>to help each others; farming is easily done on family level while
>hunting might combine all men of the village).

I worked for a number or years in Irian Jaya, Indonesia - now called
West Irian I believe - and we employed the, local stone age at best,
natives in village sized lots as labour building oil well drilling
sites and infrastructure. We found them to be extremely materialistic
and while certainly they would, particularly the women, corporate to
some extent there seemed to be no sense of "socialism, i.e. working
together for the common good. I should add that they did fight village
sized wars against of the villages who imposed on "their" territory.

But they certainly were capitalistic in nature - you give me this and
I'll give you that - I was once offered a very nubile (about ) 14 year
old girl in exchange for a steel blade "parang"
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 07:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 3:46:19 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>> Am 26.03.2022 um 04:35 schrieb John B.:
>> > On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 10:55:15 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> >> Yes, inheritance is a critical property right for these
>> >> purposes. Do not discount the public nature of a marriage
>> >> contract which bears not only on property transfer at death
>> >> but equally important to establish progeny (for estate
>> >> disposition and other important areas).
>> >
>> > Actually I'm not sure about the "establish progeny" as I'm fairly sure
>> > that the U.S. birth certificate has the name of both the mother and
>> > father listed which I think might well be the determining factor.
>> > Rather then who was married to whom.
>>
>> Well, my niece according to her Birth Certificate due to German law was
>> not my niece.
>> According to German law, the mother's husband is the established father
>> of the child at birth;
>> Only once the "original birth certificate" is issued, a man other than
>> the mother's husband can claim to be the real father and an "adjusted
>> birth certificate" is issued in a separate legal act.

>Why do you suppose John is talking about this? Do you think that he is somehow trying to show everyone how bright he is with the use of Google (as usual)? He certainly wants to talk about my marriage a lot.

Your Marriage? I simply asked why Reno and not California. It seemed
strange that someone would drive several hundred miles to get married
if he could go to his local (whatever) office and do it in his home
town.

Or are you telling me that birth certificates, in the U.S., do, or
don't, list the name of the father and mother?
Tommy boy, you just don't know what you are talking about, do you.
--
Cheers,

John B.