For whatever it is worth I just came across a site that listed the
following plastics, PET, PP, LDPE, PVC, HDPE, STRETCHABLE as
"recycling can be sold for money".
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. wrote:
>
> For whatever it is worth I just came across a site that listed the
> following plastics, PET, PP, LDPE, PVC, HDPE, STRETCHABLE as
> "recycling can be sold for money".

PVC is a mess, but AFAIR tales of greenwashing, post-consumer plastics
can even save CO2 credits when incinerated for energy.

And now, one can feel even greener consuming PET bottled water trucked
from thousands of miles away:
<https://www.continental.com/en/sustainability/news/20220405-contire-tex/>

On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 02:19:12 +0200, Sepp Ruf <inqbel@Safe-mail.net>
wrote:

>John B. wrote:
>>
>> For whatever it is worth I just came across a site that listed the
>> following plastics, PET, PP, LDPE, PVC, HDPE, STRETCHABLE as
>> "recycling can be sold for money".
>
>PVC is a mess, but AFAIR tales of greenwashing, post-consumer plastics
>can even save CO2 credits when incinerated for energy.
>
>And now, one can feel even greener consuming PET bottled water trucked
>from thousands of miles away:
><https://www.continental.com/en/sustainability/news/20220405-contire-tex/>

Way back when, we used to have glass bottles and when you bought a
beer you paid a fee for the bottle and kids used to collect old used
bottles and turn them in and make sufficient funds to go to the
Saturday Movie AND have a box of popcorn too (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, April 9, 2022 at 12:58:29 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 02:19:12 +0200, Sepp Ruf <inq...@Safe-mail.net>
> wrote:
> >John B. wrote:
> >>
> >> For whatever it is worth I just came across a site that listed the
> >> following plastics, PET, PP, LDPE, PVC, HDPE, STRETCHABLE as
> >> "recycling can be sold for money".
> >
> >PVC is a mess, but AFAIR tales of greenwashing, post-consumer plastics
> >can even save CO2 credits when incinerated for energy.
> >
> >And now, one can feel even greener consuming PET bottled water trucked
> >from thousands of miles away:
> ><https://www.continental.com/en/sustainability/news/20220405-contire-tex/>
> Way back when, we used to have glass bottles and when you bought a
> beer you paid a fee for the bottle and kids used to collect old used
> bottles and turn them in and make sufficient funds to go to the
> Saturday Movie AND have a box of popcorn too (:-)
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

It is rarer than hen's teeth to buy/sell the old style 10 cent deposit pop bottles. The tall skinny clear heavy glass Pepsi or Coke bottles. Coke would mold their bottles so they had grooves or the Coke logo in them I believe. I think these types of bottles still have the ten cent deposit today. But they are one in a million today. Unlike 50-60-70 years ago when they were the standard.

Today, ten states and Guam have deposits on beverage bottles. Beer and soda and liquor and some other stuff too. But not bottled water in the cheap flimsy plastic bottles. California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, Oregon, Vermont. 5-10-15 cents deposits. The buyer pays this deposit at the checkout for each beverage bottle/can purchased. And gets the deposit money back when they return the bottle/can to the store or other collection place. My state has it and it helps considerably on trash in public.

If you lived in a state with a bottle deposit, and walked 5-10 miles around town everyday, you might collect a dollar's worth of bottles/cans and earn a $1. If you live in a state without a bottle deposit, you would pick up many bags full of thrown away trash bottles/cans. In every mile walked. And you might be able to take them to the recycle center and they would pay you one tenth of one tenth of one tenth of one tenth of a penny for the glass and plastic and aluminum bottles/cans.

On 4/9/2022 2:59 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Saturday, April 9, 2022 at 12:58:29 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 02:19:12 +0200, Sepp Ruf <inq...@Safe-mail.net>
>> wrote:
>>> John B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For whatever it is worth I just came across a site that listed the
>>>> following plastics, PET, PP, LDPE, PVC, HDPE, STRETCHABLE as
>>>> "recycling can be sold for money".
>>>
>>> PVC is a mess, but AFAIR tales of greenwashing, post-consumer plastics
>>> can even save CO2 credits when incinerated for energy.
>>>
>>> And now, one can feel even greener consuming PET bottled water trucked
>> >from thousands of miles away:
>>> <https://www.continental.com/en/sustainability/news/20220405-contire-tex/>
>> Way back when, we used to have glass bottles and when you bought a
>> beer you paid a fee for the bottle and kids used to collect old used
>> bottles and turn them in and make sufficient funds to go to the
>> Saturday Movie AND have a box of popcorn too (:-)
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
> It is rarer than hen's teeth to buy/sell the old style 10 cent deposit pop bottles. The tall skinny clear heavy glass Pepsi or Coke bottles. Coke would mold their bottles so they had grooves or the Coke logo in them I believe. I think these types of bottles still have the ten cent deposit today. But they are one in a million today. Unlike 50-60-70 years ago when they were the standard.
>
> Today, ten states and Guam have deposits on beverage bottles. Beer and soda and liquor and some other stuff too. But not bottled water in the cheap flimsy plastic bottles. California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, Oregon, Vermont. 5-10-15 cents deposits. The buyer pays this deposit at the checkout for each beverage bottle/can purchased. And gets the deposit money back when they return the bottle/can to the store or other collection place. My state has it and it helps considerably on trash in public.
>
> If you lived in a state with a bottle deposit, and walked 5-10 miles around town everyday, you might collect a dollar's worth of bottles/cans and earn a $1. If you live in a state without a bottle deposit, you would pick up many bags full of thrown away trash bottles/cans. In every mile walked. And you might be able to take them to the recycle center and they would pay you one tenth of one tenth of one tenth of one tenth of a penny for the glass and plastic and aluminum bottles/cans.

Back in the late 1970s we did a week of bicycling in a state with a
bottle deposit law. I was astonished at the lack of broken glass on the
roads.

At that time, Ohio (where I now live) had a proposal to impose a deposit
on glass bottles. But Toledo, Ohio was a major producer of glass
bottles. The anti-deposit forces lobbied hard, saying a deposit would
destroy Toledo jobs. The deposit proposal failed.

I briefly wondered if the hypothetically unemployed bottle makers could
have been paid to make bottles for immediate smashing and tossing in the
landfill - or on the roads - since that's where their product ended up.

Having said all that: The problem is now greatly reduced. Plastic
bottles smashed at roadside don't cause flats. And in fact, there are
fuel savings from shipping beverages, etc. in plastic since each bottle
is much lighter.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 23:59:35 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, April 9, 2022 at 12:58:29 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 02:19:12 +0200, Sepp Ruf <inq...@Safe-mail.net>
>> wrote:
>> >John B. wrote:
>> >>
>> >> For whatever it is worth I just came across a site that listed the
>> >> following plastics, PET, PP, LDPE, PVC, HDPE, STRETCHABLE as
>> >> "recycling can be sold for money".
>> >
>> >PVC is a mess, but AFAIR tales of greenwashing, post-consumer plastics
>> >can even save CO2 credits when incinerated for energy.
>> >
>> >And now, one can feel even greener consuming PET bottled water trucked
>> >from thousands of miles away:
>> ><https://www.continental.com/en/sustainability/news/20220405-contire-tex/>
>> Way back when, we used to have glass bottles and when you bought a
>> beer you paid a fee for the bottle and kids used to collect old used
>> bottles and turn them in and make sufficient funds to go to the
>> Saturday Movie AND have a box of popcorn too (:-)
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
>It is rarer than hen's teeth to buy/sell the old style 10 cent deposit pop bottles. The tall skinny clear heavy glass Pepsi or Coke bottles. Coke would mold their bottles so they had grooves or the Coke logo in them I believe. I think these types of bottles still have the ten cent deposit today. But they are one in a million today. Unlike 50-60-70 years ago when they were the standard.
>
>Today, ten states and Guam have deposits on beverage bottles. Beer and soda and liquor and some other stuff too. But not bottled water in the cheap flimsy plastic bottles. California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, Oregon, Vermont. 5-10-15 cents deposits. The buyer pays this deposit at the checkout for each beverage bottle/can purchased. And gets the deposit money back when they return the bottle/can to the store or other collection place. My state has it and it helps considerably on trash in public.
>
>If you lived in a state with a bottle deposit, and walked 5-10 miles around town everyday, you might collect a dollar's worth of bottles/cans and earn a $1. If you live in a state without a bottle deposit, you would pick up many bags full of thrown away trash bottles/cans. In every mile walked. And you might be able to take them to the recycle center and they would pay you one tenth of one tenth of one tenth of one tenth of a penny for the glass and plastic and aluminum bottles/cans.

Exactly. To reduce prices we change over to plastic and then whine and
complain because people throw the essentially valueless plastic in the
trash.

In Thailand, in most stores now, if you don't bring your own shopping
bag you have to pay a fee to get your goods in a cheap flimsy plastic
bag so most ladies shopping now bring their own shopping bags.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/9/2022 2:59 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, April 9, 2022 at 12:58:29 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:

>>> Way back when, we used to have glass bottles and when you bought a >>> beer you paid a fee for the bottle and kids used to collect old
>>> used bottles and turn them in and make sufficient funds to go to
>>> the Saturday Movie AND have a box of popcorn too (:-)

The modern cast of adventurous youths are printing fake deposit coding
marks, and barcodes, to turn non-deposit beverage containers into
deposit ones.

>> It is rarer than hen's teeth to buy/sell the old style 10 cent
>> deposit pop bottles. The tall skinny clear heavy glass Pepsi or
>> Coke bottles. Coke would mold their bottles so they had grooves or
>> the Coke logo in them I believe. I think these types of bottles
>> still have the ten cent deposit today. But they are one in a
>> million today. Unlike 50-60-70 years ago when they were the
>> standard.
>>
>> Today, ten states and Guam have deposits on beverage bottles. Beer
>> and soda and liquor and some other stuff too. But not bottled
>> water in the cheap flimsy plastic bottles. California,
>> Connecticut, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New
>> York, Oregon, Vermont. 5-10-15 cents deposits. The buyer pays
>> this deposit at the checkout for each beverage bottle/can
>> purchased. And gets the deposit money back when they return the
>> bottle/can to the store or other collection place. My state has it
>> and it helps considerably on trash in public.
>>
>> If you lived in a state with a bottle deposit, and walked 5-10
>> miles around town everyday, you might collect a dollar's worth of
>> bottles/cans and earn a $1. If you live in a state without a
>> bottle deposit, you would pick up many bags full of thrown away
>> trash bottles/cans. In every mile walked. And you might be able
>> to take them to the recycle center and they would pay you one tenth
>> of one tenth of one tenth of one tenth of a penny for the glass and
>> plastic and aluminum bottles/cans.

When gasoline was recently priced 2.029 euro/liter here and everyone,
except apparatshik greenies, kept moaning and demanding lower taxation,
I was luxuriously filling up the tank. On my way from the pump to pay
inside, I realized I could tweak the price below the 2 euro threshold by
walking about twenty extra steps: As simply as picking up two
decadently discarded "25 ct. deposit" cans and plastic water bottles on
the premises and feeding them into the deposit receipt machine on the
way to the gas station (and mainly, snacks&booze mart) cashier inside.

> Back in the late 1970s we did a week of bicycling in a state with a
> bottle deposit law. I was astonished at the lack of broken glass on
> the roads.
>
> At that time, Ohio (where I now live) had a proposal to impose a
> deposit on glass bottles. But Toledo, Ohio was a major producer of
> glass bottles. The anti-deposit forces lobbied hard, saying a deposit
> would destroy Toledo jobs. The deposit proposal failed.
>
> I briefly wondered if the hypothetically unemployed bottle makers
> could have been paid to make bottles for immediate smashing and
> tossing in the landfill - or on the roads - since that's where their
> product ended up.

It seems they did not think of having their glass bottle production
sponsored by the Pentagon, to supply irregular firebombers in "freedom &
democracy" revolutions, similar to what Carlsberg of Denmark now does.

> Having said all that: The problem is now greatly reduced. Plastic
> bottles smashed at roadside don't cause flats. And in fact, there
> are fuel savings from shipping beverages, etc. in plastic since each
> bottle is much lighter.

An inflation-corroded 8 ct deposit per glass beer bottle (and zero ct on
tequila, vodka, etc. glass bottles) thrown onto separatist bicycle
infrastructure definitely is a problem. Rides I could do for decades
without ever getting a flat turn into puncture minefields once a
separatist bike/ped path is built alongside the road. So the new infra
slows me down several minutes whenever I want to be sure I arrive
punctually -- I either need to leave early to be able to fix a flat or
two, or take a bike with slow anti-puncture tires.

On Sunday, April 10, 2022 at 5:06:24 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 4/9/2022 2:59 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> On Saturday, April 9, 2022 at 12:58:29 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>
> >>> Way back when, we used to have glass bottles and when you bought a >>> beer you paid a fee for the bottle and kids used to collect old
> >>> used bottles and turn them in and make sufficient funds to go to
> >>> the Saturday Movie AND have a box of popcorn too (:-)
> The modern cast of adventurous youths are printing fake deposit coding
> marks, and barcodes, to turn non-deposit beverage containers into
> deposit ones.
> >> It is rarer than hen's teeth to buy/sell the old style 10 cent
> >> deposit pop bottles. The tall skinny clear heavy glass Pepsi or
> >> Coke bottles. Coke would mold their bottles so they had grooves or
> >> the Coke logo in them I believe. I think these types of bottles
> >> still have the ten cent deposit today. But they are one in a
> >> million today. Unlike 50-60-70 years ago when they were the
> >> standard.
> >>
> >> Today, ten states and Guam have deposits on beverage bottles. Beer
> >> and soda and liquor and some other stuff too. But not bottled
> >> water in the cheap flimsy plastic bottles. California,
> >> Connecticut, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New
> >> York, Oregon, Vermont. 5-10-15 cents deposits. The buyer pays
> >> this deposit at the checkout for each beverage bottle/can
> >> purchased. And gets the deposit money back when they return the
> >> bottle/can to the store or other collection place. My state has it
> >> and it helps considerably on trash in public.
> >>
> >> If you lived in a state with a bottle deposit, and walked 5-10
> >> miles around town everyday, you might collect a dollar's worth of
> >> bottles/cans and earn a $1. If you live in a state without a
> >> bottle deposit, you would pick up many bags full of thrown away
> >> trash bottles/cans. In every mile walked. And you might be able
> >> to take them to the recycle center and they would pay you one tenth
> >> of one tenth of one tenth of one tenth of a penny for the glass and
> >> plastic and aluminum bottles/cans.
> When gasoline was recently priced 2.029 euro/liter here and everyone,
> except apparatshik greenies, kept moaning and demanding lower taxation,
> I was luxuriously filling up the tank. On my way from the pump to pay
> inside, I realized I could tweak the price below the 2 euro threshold by
> walking about twenty extra steps: As simply as picking up two
> decadently discarded "25 ct. deposit" cans and plastic water bottles on
> the premises and feeding them into the deposit receipt machine on the
> way to the gas station (and mainly, snacks&booze mart) cashier inside.
> > Back in the late 1970s we did a week of bicycling in a state with a
> > bottle deposit law. I was astonished at the lack of broken glass on
> > the roads.
> >
> > At that time, Ohio (where I now live) had a proposal to impose a
> > deposit on glass bottles. But Toledo, Ohio was a major producer of
> > glass bottles. The anti-deposit forces lobbied hard, saying a deposit
> > would destroy Toledo jobs. The deposit proposal failed.
> >
> > I briefly wondered if the hypothetically unemployed bottle makers
> > could have been paid to make bottles for immediate smashing and
> > tossing in the landfill - or on the roads - since that's where their
> > product ended up.
> It seems they did not think of having their glass bottle production
> sponsored by the Pentagon, to supply irregular firebombers in "freedom &
> democracy" revolutions, similar to what Carlsberg of Denmark now does.
> > Having said all that: The problem is now greatly reduced. Plastic
> > bottles smashed at roadside don't cause flats. And in fact, there
> > are fuel savings from shipping beverages, etc. in plastic since each
> > bottle is much lighter.
> An inflation-corroded 8 ct deposit per glass beer bottle (and zero ct on
> tequila, vodka, etc. glass bottles) thrown onto separatist bicycle
> infrastructure definitely is a problem. Rides I could do for decades
> without ever getting a flat turn into puncture minefields once a
> separatist bike/ped path is built alongside the road. So the new infra
> slows me down several minutes whenever I want to be sure I arrive
> punctually -- I either need to leave early to be able to fix a flat or
> two, or take a bike with slow anti-puncture tires.
For reasons I have never understood, after the initial child's delight at discovering that glass breaks with a rather satisfying sound, why would anyone continue this into old age? Breaking glass bottles is almost a national pastime and why using plastic bottles makes so much sense. That Greenies would concentrate not on why we use plastic but instead why people wreck the very means of avoiding the use of plastic is what they should be doing. I have never in my life met people who call themselves environmentalists that have even a passing idea of what environmentalism actually is.

On 4/10/2022 8:06 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
>> Having said all that: The problem is now greatly reduced. Plastic
>> bottles smashed at roadside don't cause flats. And in fact, there
>> are fuel savings from shipping beverages, etc. in plastic since each
>> bottle is much lighter.
>
> An inflation-corroded 8 ct deposit per glass beer bottle (and zero ct on
> tequila, vodka, etc. glass bottles) thrown onto separatist bicycle
> infrastructure definitely is a problem.

Around here, we are blessedly free of segregated bike lanes. (Well, so
far, anyway.)

But our village has several shortcut bike/pedestrian paths that are
quite handy. At least two of them have had broken glass strewn on them,
I assume by boys who thought it would be funny to break bottles there.

My temporary solution was to take a sort of whisk broom and spend the
time necessary to clear away the glass. Otherwise it would have been
there forever. The village would certainly never clear it.

My long term solution would be to arrest all boys when they turn 12 and
ship them off to a compound in the middle of the Nevada desert. Release
them when they turn 30, but only if their behavior has been good. It
would solve a lot of society's problems.

Sadly, few people seem to like my idea.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, April 10, 2022 at 7:06:24 AM UTC-5, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 4/9/2022 2:59 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> On Saturday, April 9, 2022 at 12:58:29 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>
> >>> Way back when, we used to have glass bottles and when you bought a >>> beer you paid a fee for the bottle and kids used to collect old
> >>> used bottles and turn them in and make sufficient funds to go to
> >>> the Saturday Movie AND have a box of popcorn too (:-)
> The modern cast of adventurous youths are printing fake deposit coding
> marks, and barcodes, to turn non-deposit beverage containers into
> deposit ones.

In Iowa, where I live, there is a 5 cent can/bottle deposit. We have a few cities on the border with other states without deposits. I suppose an entrepreneurial, criminal, youth could print fake codes and apply them to the bottles/cans. This would work in Omaha, no deposit. And Council Bluffs, deposit. Collect bottles in Nebraska and drive 5-10 miles across the Missouri River bridge to Iowa and get money. 20 cans/bottles per $1. Round up 200 bottles/cans per day in Nebraska and you would "earn" $10. You could take your girl out to supper at McDonalds that night. If you only ordered off the bargain menu. The other half of your profit would have to be used for gasoline to get back and forth between the towns. $5 would get about 1-1.5 gallons. 30 miles of city driving. On the eastern edge of Iowa there is the Quad Cities. Two biggish towns in Iowa and two biggish towns in Illinois. Mississippi River between them. Deposit in Iowa. No deposit in Illinois. So an enterprising youth over there could do the same scheme. With the same results. Sioux City Iowa is the only other city in Iowa with a somewhat sizable town on the other side of the border. With South Dakota in this instance. Same plan could work there too.

So in Iowa we have three metro areas where this plan would work. In no other place in Iowa is a city close enough to a city in a non deposit state where this plan would work. And if you look at the list of states above where I said they have deposits, there are only a few of them with sizable cities in non deposit states close enough to make this plan work. California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, Oregon, Vermont. Lets take California as an example. There are no California cities or towns on the borders with Oregon, Nevada, or Arizona. California's border states. Nevada does have Reno, a big city, near California. So maybe some Reno kids could try this and drive an hour or two into California to find a place to redeem the cans/bottles. But I am guessing after being fooled once and catching the error, they would be aware the next time and maybe apprehend the kids. Or call the cops.

But to be honest, spending 8-10 hours a day collecting 200 bottles/cans to make $10, seems a poor waste of time to me. Seems to me any youth with this much energy and gumption, would just get a real job or go to school and earn a degree to get a profitable job.

> >> It is rarer than hen's teeth to buy/sell the old style 10 cent
> >> deposit pop bottles. The tall skinny clear heavy glass Pepsi or
> >> Coke bottles. Coke would mold their bottles so they had grooves or
> >> the Coke logo in them I believe. I think these types of bottles
> >> still have the ten cent deposit today. But they are one in a
> >> million today. Unlike 50-60-70 years ago when they were the
> >> standard.
> >>
> >> Today, ten states and Guam have deposits on beverage bottles. Beer
> >> and soda and liquor and some other stuff too. But not bottled
> >> water in the cheap flimsy plastic bottles. California,
> >> Connecticut, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New
> >> York, Oregon, Vermont. 5-10-15 cents deposits. The buyer pays
> >> this deposit at the checkout for each beverage bottle/can
> >> purchased. And gets the deposit money back when they return the
> >> bottle/can to the store or other collection place. My state has it
> >> and it helps considerably on trash in public.
> >>
> >> If you lived in a state with a bottle deposit, and walked 5-10
> >> miles around town everyday, you might collect a dollar's worth of
> >> bottles/cans and earn a $1. If you live in a state without a
> >> bottle deposit, you would pick up many bags full of thrown away
> >> trash bottles/cans. In every mile walked. And you might be able
> >> to take them to the recycle center and they would pay you one tenth
> >> of one tenth of one tenth of one tenth of a penny for the glass and
> >> plastic and aluminum bottles/cans.
> When gasoline was recently priced 2.029 euro/liter here and everyone,
> except apparatshik greenies, kept moaning and demanding lower taxation,
> I was luxuriously filling up the tank. On my way from the pump to pay
> inside, I realized I could tweak the price below the 2 euro threshold by
> walking about twenty extra steps: As simply as picking up two
> decadently discarded "25 ct. deposit" cans and plastic water bottles on
> the premises and feeding them into the deposit receipt machine on the
> way to the gas station (and mainly, snacks&booze mart) cashier inside.

Most, none, of the gas stations in the USA have redemption machines at the filling station. They are located at grocery stores or maybe official redemption centers. As for 25 cent deposit, not in the USA. 5-10 cents in almost all cases. So its possible your scenario would save you 1 penny per gallon if you only filled up your car with half a tank of gas. 1 gallon is 3..78 liters. So we are talking 1/2 penny at most per liter in the USA.

> > Back in the late 1970s we did a week of bicycling in a state with a
> > bottle deposit law. I was astonished at the lack of broken glass on
> > the roads.
> >
> > At that time, Ohio (where I now live) had a proposal to impose a
> > deposit on glass bottles. But Toledo, Ohio was a major producer of
> > glass bottles. The anti-deposit forces lobbied hard, saying a deposit
> > would destroy Toledo jobs. The deposit proposal failed.
> >
> > I briefly wondered if the hypothetically unemployed bottle makers
> > could have been paid to make bottles for immediate smashing and
> > tossing in the landfill - or on the roads - since that's where their
> > product ended up.
> It seems they did not think of having their glass bottle production
> sponsored by the Pentagon, to supply irregular firebombers in "freedom &
> democracy" revolutions, similar to what Carlsberg of Denmark now does.
> > Having said all that: The problem is now greatly reduced. Plastic
> > bottles smashed at roadside don't cause flats. And in fact, there
> > are fuel savings from shipping beverages, etc. in plastic since each
> > bottle is much lighter.
> An inflation-corroded 8 ct deposit per glass beer bottle (and zero ct on
> tequila, vodka, etc. glass bottles) thrown onto separatist bicycle
> infrastructure definitely is a problem. Rides I could do for decades
> without ever getting a flat turn into puncture minefields once a
> separatist bike/ped path is built alongside the road. So the new infra
> slows me down several minutes whenever I want to be sure I arrive
> punctually -- I either need to leave early to be able to fix a flat or
> two, or take a bike with slow anti-puncture tires.

The big benefit for deposits on cans and bottles is the trash no thrown on the streets and grass and forests. There is a tiny bit of recycling too. But I'm not sure recycling is too profitable. For plastic anyway.

On Sunday, April 10, 2022 at 10:18:02 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/10/2022 8:06 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> > Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >
> >> Having said all that: The problem is now greatly reduced. Plastic
> >> bottles smashed at roadside don't cause flats. And in fact, there
> >> are fuel savings from shipping beverages, etc. in plastic since each
> >> bottle is much lighter.
> >
> > An inflation-corroded 8 ct deposit per glass beer bottle (and zero ct on
> > tequila, vodka, etc. glass bottles) thrown onto separatist bicycle
> > infrastructure definitely is a problem.
> Around here, we are blessedly free of segregated bike lanes. (Well, so
> far, anyway.)
>
> But our village has several shortcut bike/pedestrian paths that are
> quite handy. At least two of them have had broken glass strewn on them,
> I assume by boys who thought it would be funny to break bottles there.
>
> My temporary solution was to take a sort of whisk broom and spend the
> time necessary to clear away the glass. Otherwise it would have been
> there forever. The village would certainly never clear it.
>
> My long term solution would be to arrest all boys when they turn 12 and
> ship them off to a compound in the middle of the Nevada desert. Release
> them when they turn 30, but only if their behavior has been good. It
> would solve a lot of society's problems.
>
> Sadly, few people seem to like my idea.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

I don't like your idea either Frank. If my memory is working well enough, I seem to recall the years between being 12 and 30 as the best time of my life. Take those good years away and there really isn't much in all the other years to care about. I was young, and carefree, and studly (in my imagination anyway).

Now I will admit your plan would solve all of the world's problems, yes. But I don't want to give up my fun to do that. I'm selfish.

On 4/10/2022 6:16 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> But to be honest, spending 8-10 hours a day collecting 200 bottles/cans to make $10, seems a poor waste of time to me. Seems to me any youth with this much energy and gumption, would just get a real job or go to school and earn a degree to get a profitable job.

Long before I was retired, I was out on a solo ride toward a specialty
store in a distant township. I came across this guy on a bike with a
huge basket in front and twin baskets in the rear. The baskets were
pretty much full of aluminum cans.

We got in a conversation. He said he had retired, and decided that was
what he would do with his time: ride around and collect aluminum cans
from the roadside. He figured he was cleaning things up and making a
little money.

More power to him, I guess. It's not how I've chosen to spend my time.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, April 10, 2022 at 7:11:18 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/10/2022 6:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > But to be honest, spending 8-10 hours a day collecting 200 bottles/cans to make $10, seems a poor waste of time to me. Seems to me any youth with this much energy and gumption, would just get a real job or go to school and earn a degree to get a profitable job.
> Long before I was retired, I was out on a solo ride toward a specialty
> store in a distant township. I came across this guy on a bike with a
> huge basket in front and twin baskets in the rear. The baskets were
> pretty much full of aluminum cans.
>
> We got in a conversation. He said he had retired, and decided that was
> what he would do with his time: ride around and collect aluminum cans
> from the roadside. He figured he was cleaning things up and making a
> little money.
>
> More power to him, I guess. It's not how I've chosen to spend my time.
>
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

I am NOT condemning the act of picking up litter. I am condemning anyone who thinks he can get rich or even earn any money by counterfeiting the deposit labels on cans/bottles picked up on the streets or roads. It is too much work. And too little profit. Now as for the person you mentioned, he is doing it and knows he is doing it as a public service. Yeah. And an extra bonus is he makes a dollar or two. Literally. Yeah.

On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 23:20:51 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, April 10, 2022 at 7:11:18 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 4/10/2022 6:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >
>> > But to be honest, spending 8-10 hours a day collecting 200 bottles/cans to make $10, seems a poor waste of time to me. Seems to me any youth with this much energy and gumption, would just get a real job or go to school and earn a degree to get a profitable job.
>> Long before I was retired, I was out on a solo ride toward a specialty
>> store in a distant township. I came across this guy on a bike with a
>> huge basket in front and twin baskets in the rear. The baskets were
>> pretty much full of aluminum cans.
>>
>> We got in a conversation. He said he had retired, and decided that was
>> what he would do with his time: ride around and collect aluminum cans
>> from the roadside. He figured he was cleaning things up and making a
>> little money.
>>
>> More power to him, I guess. It's not how I've chosen to spend my time.
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
>I am NOT condemning the act of picking up litter. I am condemning anyone who thinks he can get rich or even earn any money by counterfeiting the deposit labels on cans/bottles picked up on the streets or roads. It is too much work. And too little profit. Now as for the person you mentioned, he is doing it and knows he is doing it as a public service. Yeah. And an extra bonus is he makes a dollar or two. Literally. Yeah.

It is very much a matter of what Tommy would probably call the U.S.
communist system you don't have to pick trash because you have the
unemployment, and the Social security and the assisted housing and,
and, and.

But in a country without all this government assistance (and taxes are
lower) you either work, or you don't eat, so trash picking is
feasible.

In my neighborhood we have an old guy with a sidecar on his motorcycle
comes around every morning and picks up drink bottles and cans out of
the trash cans.
(motorcycle with sidecar)

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/32/60/73/3260734e255ff875ff31e17d013f5253.jpg

As for broken glass... we have people to sweep the roads (:-)
https://tinyurl.com/4sv9va5n

--
Cheers,

John B.

Am 11.04.2022 um 10:42 schrieb John B.:
> It is very much a matter of what Tommy would probably call the U.S.
> communist system you don't have to pick trash because you have the
> unemployment, and the Social security and the assisted housing and,
> and, and.
>
> But in a country without all this government assistance (and taxes are
> lower) you either work, or you don't eat, so trash picking is
> feasible.

In "Communist Germany", some people in the left-wing parties claim that
we must raise the retirement benefits because some retired people are
trash-picking bottles.

I think this is politically meaningless: my mum is proud to be carrying
home bottles for deposit despite having more than enough money on her
bank account (ok, she doesn't trash-pick, she only takes bottles and
cans littering the roadsides).
In old age, the WWII traumas seem to re-emerge, and then "every little
counts", necessary or not.

Rolf

On 4/11/2022 2:20 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sunday, April 10, 2022 at 7:11:18 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 4/10/2022 6:16 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>> But to be honest, spending 8-10 hours a day collecting 200 bottles/cans to make $10, seems a poor waste of time to me. Seems to me any youth with this much energy and gumption, would just get a real job or go to school and earn a degree to get a profitable job.
>> Long before I was retired, I was out on a solo ride toward a specialty
>> store in a distant township. I came across this guy on a bike with a
>> huge basket in front and twin baskets in the rear. The baskets were
>> pretty much full of aluminum cans.
>>
>> We got in a conversation. He said he had retired, and decided that was
>> what he would do with his time: ride around and collect aluminum cans
>> from the roadside. He figured he was cleaning things up and making a
>> little money.
>>
>> More power to him, I guess. It's not how I've chosen to spend my time.
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> I am NOT condemning the act of picking up litter. I am condemning anyone who thinks he can get rich or even earn any money by counterfeiting the deposit labels on cans/bottles picked up on the streets or roads. It is too much work. And too little profit. Now as for the person you mentioned, he is doing it and knows he is doing it as a public service. Yeah. And an extra bonus is he makes a dollar or two. Literally. Yeah.

As I said, more power to him.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 10:54:05 +0200, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:

>Am 11.04.2022 um 10:42 schrieb John B.:
>> It is very much a matter of what Tommy would probably call the U.S.
>> communist system you don't have to pick trash because you have the
>> unemployment, and the Social security and the assisted housing and,
>> and, and.
>>
>> But in a country without all this government assistance (and taxes are
>> lower) you either work, or you don't eat, so trash picking is
>> feasible.
>
>In "Communist Germany", some people in the left-wing parties claim that
>we must raise the retirement benefits because some retired people are
>trash-picking bottles.
>
>I think this is politically meaningless: my mum is proud to be carrying
>home bottles for deposit despite having more than enough money on her
>bank account (ok, she doesn't trash-pick, she only takes bottles and
>cans littering the roadsides).
>In old age, the WWII traumas seem to re-emerge, and then "every little
>counts", necessary or not.
>
>Rolf

Certainly it is politically meaningless. I was just poking fun at
Tommy's continuous reference to Communism in trying to demean someone
else's posts.
--
Cheers,

John B.