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tech / rec.bicycles.tech / technically, you're fat.

SubjectAuthor
* technically, you're fat.AMuzi
+* Re: technically, you're fat.Jeff Liebermann
|+* Re: technically, you're fat.Roger Merriman
||`* Re: technically, you're fat.Tom Kunich
|| `* Re: technically, you're fat.William Crowell
||  `* Re: technically, you're fat.Tom Kunich
||   `* Re: technically, you're fat.Roger Merriman
||    +- Re: technically, you're fat.Frank Krygowski
||    `* Re: technically, you're fat.John B.
||     `* Re: technically, you're fat.Frank Krygowski
||      `* Re: technically, you're fat.John B.
||       `- Re: technically, you're fat.Frank Krygowski
|`* Re: technically, you're fat.Frank Krygowski
| `* Re: technically, you're fat.Jeff Liebermann
|  +- Re: technically, you're fat.Frank Krygowski
|  +* Re: technically, you're fat.russellseaton1@yahoo.com
|  |`- Re: technically, you're fat.AMuzi
|  `* Re: technically, you're fat.Tim R
|   +- Re: technically, you're fat.Frank Krygowski
|   +- Re: technically, you're fat.John B.
|   `* Re: technically, you're fat.Joy Beeson
|    `* Re: technically, you're fat.John B.
|     `* Re: technically, you're fat.Ralph Barone
|      `* Re: technically, you're fat.John B.
|       +* Re: technically, you're fat.AMuzi
|       |+- Re: technically, you're fat.russellseaton1@yahoo.com
|       |`- Re: technically, you're fat.John B.
|       +* Re: technically, you're fat.Ralph Barone
|       |`* Re: technically, you're fat.John B.
|       | `* Re: technically, you're fat.Ralph Barone
|       |  `* Re: technically, you're fat.John B.
|       |   `* Re: technically, you're fat.Ralph Barone
|       |    `* Re: technically, you're fat.Tom Kunich
|       |     `* Re: technically, you're fat.russellseaton1@yahoo.com
|       |      `* Re: technically, you're fat.Tim R
|       |       +- Re: technically, you're fat.Tom Kunich
|       |       +* Re: technically, you're fat.funkma...@hotmail.com
|       |       |+* Re: technically, you're fat.Frank Krygowski
|       |       ||+* Re: technically, you're fat.Roger Merriman
|       |       |||`* Re: technically, you're fat.funkma...@hotmail.com
|       |       ||| `- Re: technically, you're fat.Roger Merriman
|       |       ||`- Re: technically, you're fat.funkma...@hotmail.com
|       |       |`* Re: technically, you're fat.Tim R
|       |       | +* Re: technically, you're fat.Frank Krygowski
|       |       | |`- Re: technically, you're fat.John B.
|       |       | +- Re: technically, you're fat.funkma...@hotmail.com
|       |       | `- Re: technically, you're fat.funkma...@hotmail.com
|       |       `* Re: technically, you're fat.AMuzi
|       |        +- Re: technically, you're fat.russellseaton1@yahoo.com
|       |        +* Re: technically, you're fat.Tom Kunich
|       |        |`- Re: technically, you're fat.John B.
|       |        `- Re: technically, you're fat.John B.
|       `- Re: technically, you're fat.Frank Krygowski
`- Re: technically, you're fat.Tom Kunich

Pages:123
technically, you're fat.

<t2o5ec$bec$1@dont-email.me>

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From: am...@yellowjersey.org (AMuzi)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: technically, you're fat.
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 21:08:11 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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 by: AMuzi - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 02:08 UTC

https://1sportblog.com/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment.html

warning, graphic:

https://www.rawcyclingmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/vertical-600x900.jpg
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Re: technically, you're fat.

<gtev4hphjog7t8edf0phekr9n14ekhsbaj@4ax.com>

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From: jef...@cruzio.com (Jeff Liebermann)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 21:54:58 -0700
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 by: Jeff Liebermann - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 04:54 UTC

On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 21:08:11 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>https://1sportblog.com/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment.html

The original article was in the Wall Street Journal and is easier to
read:
<https://www.wsj.com/articles/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment-11649096633>

>warning, graphic:
>
>https://www.rawcyclingmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/vertical-600x900.jpg

More of the same:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=fat+cyclist&tbm=isch>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Re: technically, you're fat.

<t2paih$ft0$1@dont-email.me>

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From: rog...@sarlet.com (Roger Merriman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 12:41:53 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Roger Merriman - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 12:41 UTC

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 21:08:11 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> https://1sportblog.com/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment.html
>
> The original article was in the Wall Street Journal and is easier to
> read:
> <https://www.wsj.com/articles/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment-11649096633>
>
>> warning, graphic:
>>
>> https://www.rawcyclingmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/vertical-600x900.jpg
>
> More of the same:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=fat+cyclist&tbm=isch>
>

Certainly in uk, there is this company <https://fatladattheback.com> have
seen folks out and about wearing their stuff, looks good.

Plus I think kit for folks who are tall as well as big.

Roger Merriman

Re: technically, you're fat.

<t2pi7b$al0$1@dont-email.me>

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From: frkry...@sbcglobal.net (Frank Krygowski)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 10:52:26 -0400
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 by: Frank Krygowski - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 14:52 UTC

On 4/8/2022 12:54 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 21:08:11 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> https://1sportblog.com/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment.html
>
> The original article was in the Wall Street Journal and is easier to
> read:
> <https://www.wsj.com/articles/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment-11649096633>
>
>> warning, graphic:
>>
>> https://www.rawcyclingmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/vertical-600x900.jpg
>
> More of the same:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=fat+cyclist&tbm=isch>

On one hand: It's easy to scorn fat people for their obvious lack of
personal discipline. But I watched a NOVA (PBS) program some months ago
that made a pretty convincing case that obesity has no obvious cause.
Eating less, for example, seems to make much less difference than
anticipated, because metabolism slows to compensate.

The physician in our family thinks the prevalence of sweeteners,
including artificial ones, in processed food and drink may have much
more effect than realized. But that's just his belief; I don't think he
can point to much hard evidence.

On the other hand: I've long been a bit dismayed that cyclists are
expected to wear outlandish looking clothing. I understand there's
function to some of it (preventing wrinkles between one's saddle and
one's butt; or wicking sweat away). But why is it necessary to be an
advertising billboard? And why are even cycling shoes garishly colored?

A fit time trialist with 8% body fat probably gets aero benefits from a
snug fitting jersey, but it doesn't have to display all his pretend
sponsors. A 200+ pound recreational cyclist doesn't need aero benefit at
all. I'd say a different costume is appropriate - something much more
like everyday clothing.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Re: technically, you're fat.

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Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
From: cyclin...@gmail.com (Tom Kunich)
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 by: Tom Kunich - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 16:37 UTC

On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 7:08:16 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> https://1sportblog.com/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment.html
>
> warning, graphic:
>
> https://www.rawcyclingmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/vertical-600x900..jpg

My friend was nowhere near that size and had a blood clot that sealed off the main artery to his heart. But he was having a seizure before that signaling that he was already having a stroke from a blood clot on his brain from the same source probably. If you allow your body to go to hell it will catch up to you.

Re: technically, you're fat.

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From: jef...@cruzio.com (Jeff Liebermann)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2022 10:59:32 -0700
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 by: Jeff Liebermann - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 17:59 UTC

On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 10:52:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 4/8/2022 12:54 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 21:08:11 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> https://1sportblog.com/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment.html
>>
>> The original article was in the Wall Street Journal and is easier to
>> read:
>> <https://www.wsj.com/articles/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment-11649096633>
>>
>>> warning, graphic:
>>>
>>> https://www.rawcyclingmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/vertical-600x900.jpg
>>
>> More of the same:
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=fat+cyclist&tbm=isch>

>On one hand: It's easy to scorn fat people for their obvious lack of
>personal discipline. But I watched a NOVA (PBS) program some months ago
>that made a pretty convincing case that obesity has no obvious cause.
>Eating less, for example, seems to make much less difference than
>anticipated, because metabolism slows to compensate.
>
>The physician in our family thinks the prevalence of sweeteners,
>including artificial ones, in processed food and drink may have much
>more effect than realized. But that's just his belief; I don't think he
>can point to much hard evidence.

In my never humble opinion, the major culprit is the BMI (body mass
index) of the parents. For example, both my parents BMI were within a
few points of mine. This study is for parents and children:
"Association of parental body mass index (BMI) with child’s health
behaviors and child’s BMI depend on child’s age"
<https://bmcobes.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40608-019-0232-x>
Note that correlation between parents and their children's BMI
improves with age.

About 40 years ago, I became interested in the topic and decided to
conduct an informal study among friends and coworkers. I asked them
for their height and weight, and the height and weight of their
parents, sisters, and brothers. Data collection proved to be far more
difficult than I expected because of divorces and indeterminate
patrimony). Maternal BMI correlation was amazingly close, while that
father was sometimes radically different. Too bad we didn't have DNA
testing at the time. After eliminating any suspicious paternal
discrepancy rate, I had about 30 families to work with, all of which
demonstrated a hereditary correlation within a few BMI points. No,
this is not cherry picking.

This is the kind of survey you can easily do in your spare time. Try
it, but be prepared for some rather odd comments about patrimony:
<https://www.livescience.com/375-surprise-1-25-dads-real-father.html>

Full disclosure for your survey:
I'm 77.1kg, 162cm height, BMI=27.4 (overweight):
<https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/assessing/bmi/adult_bmi/metric_bmi_calculator/bmi_calculator.html>
I still have my parents drivers licenses and can provide their data if
you're interested.

Basically, we inherit our body shape and BMI. It might be possible to
convert the offspring of a couch potato family into someone more
athletic, but would expect an uphill battle in sweat and dietary self
control. I've tried it several times, and failed every time (because
I'm lazy and tend to revert to comfort foods).

>On the other hand: I've long been a bit dismayed that cyclists are
>expected to wear outlandish looking clothing. I understand there's
>function to some of it (preventing wrinkles between one's saddle and
>one's butt; or wicking sweat away). But why is it necessary to be an
>advertising billboard? And why are even cycling shoes garishly colored?

Welcome to the fashion bu$ine$$. I grew up in the downtown Smog
Angeles garment district. In fashion, image is everything. In some
areas, fashion is almost a uniform. I don't know if it's wanting to
be part of the herd, or some fear of being recognized as being
"different", but it's very common, especially among teens.

Incidentally, fashion also tends to follow whatever society's rejects
are wearing. A few years ago, it was fashionable for the men to look
like they were just released from prison with ill fitting baggy pants.
Instead of conforming to whatever the herd was wearing, they would
display their non-conformance by wearing whatever the herd detested.
Both extremes work quite well.

Nobody looks good in Lycra, Spandex or other forms of stretch nylon.
One could do better with spray-on or paint-on clothing. Either way,
every lump, bump, bone, and credit card shows through the Spandex and
looks awful. To disguise these aesthetic deformities, fashion
designers use the same methods as military camouflage designers. They
produce a design and color combination that hide details by breaking
up large mono-colored areas, into small, multi-colored, and detailed
patches. This also hides sweat stains, dirt, mud, lumps, questionable
laundry procedures, and bumps created by wearing credit cards:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=camouflage+cycling+clothing&tbm=isch>

>A fit time trialist with 8% body fat probably gets aero benefits from a
>snug fitting jersey, but it doesn't have to display all his pretend
>sponsors. A 200+ pound recreational cyclist doesn't need aero benefit at
>all. I'd say a different costume is appropriate - something much more
>like everyday clothing.

Yep. There is another detail that would benefit a fat cyclist.
Vertical lines tend to make one look taller, or less fat. You'll find
quite a few horizontal line design on cycling jerseys because some
cyclists perceive themselves as being too tall.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cycling+jersey+horizontal+lines&tbm=isch>
It used to be that jerseys with horizontal lines are for men, because
most women will not tolerate wearing anything that makes them look
fat. With today's computer generated jersey art, either way is
acceptable.

Drivel: Want to start a fashion or a fad? This might be a good
starter:
<https://hollynorth.com/product/movie-paint/>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Re: technically, you're fat.

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Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
From: cyclin...@gmail.com (Tom Kunich)
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 by: Tom Kunich - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 18:10 UTC

On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 5:41:56 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 21:08:11 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> >> https://1sportblog.com/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment.html
> >
> > The original article was in the Wall Street Journal and is easier to
> > read:
> > <https://www.wsj.com/articles/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment-11649096633>
> >
> >> warning, graphic:
> >>
> >> https://www.rawcyclingmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/vertical-600x900.jpg
> >
> > More of the same:
> > <https://www.google.com/search?q=fat+cyclist&tbm=isch>
> >
> Certainly in uk, there is this company <https://fatladattheback.com> have
> seen folks out and about wearing their stuff, looks good.
>
> Plus I think kit for folks who are tall as well as big.

I was never one for wearing fancy colored cycling kit other than team kits. It seems to me that it is properly named as Fat Lads Off The Back for that sort of stuff. I am not one for advertising my lack of speed to the world as 18 year old Hispanics are flying by me on $10,000 bikes.

Re: technically, you're fat.

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Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
From: retroguy...@gmail.com (William Crowell)
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 by: William Crowell - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 19:06 UTC

According to the BMI I'm way fat (5'10", 195-200), and in order to bring it down to "normal" I would have to weigh only 170. Not gonna happen. Therefore I have entirely repressed the BMI from my consciousness.

Re: technically, you're fat.

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Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
From: cyclin...@gmail.com (Tom Kunich)
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 by: Tom Kunich - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 20:03 UTC

On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 12:06:37 PM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
> According to the BMI I'm way fat (5'10", 195-200), and in order to bring it down to "normal" I would have to weigh only 170. Not gonna happen. Therefore I have entirely repressed the BMI from my consciousness.

Bill, technically you're overweight and not obese. While that is of some concern, remaining fit and exercising often can offset that.

Re: technically, you're fat.

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From: rog...@sarlet.com (Roger Merriman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 20:41:39 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Roger Merriman - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 20:41 UTC

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 12:06:37 PM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
>> According to the BMI I'm way fat (5'10", 195-200), and in order to bring
>> it down to "normal" I would have to weigh only 170. Not gonna happen.
>> Therefore I have entirely repressed the BMI from my consciousness.
>
> Bill, technically you're overweight and not obese. While that is of some
> concern, remaining fit and exercising often can offset that.
>
Activity seems to be what kills folks ie lack of it. Than weight (within
reason) being overweight but active seems to increase your life expectancy.

Roger Merriman

Re: technically, you're fat.

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From: frkry...@sbcglobal.net (Frank Krygowski)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 17:15:39 -0400
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 by: Frank Krygowski - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 21:15 UTC

On 4/8/2022 1:59 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 10:52:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 4/8/2022 12:54 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 21:08:11 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://1sportblog.com/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment.html
>>>
>>> The original article was in the Wall Street Journal and is easier to
>>> read:
>>> <https://www.wsj.com/articles/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment-11649096633>
>>>
>>>> warning, graphic:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.rawcyclingmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/vertical-600x900.jpg
>>>
>>> More of the same:
>>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=fat+cyclist&tbm=isch>
>
>> On one hand: It's easy to scorn fat people for their obvious lack of
>> personal discipline. But I watched a NOVA (PBS) program some months ago
>> that made a pretty convincing case that obesity has no obvious cause.
>> Eating less, for example, seems to make much less difference than
>> anticipated, because metabolism slows to compensate.
>>
>> The physician in our family thinks the prevalence of sweeteners,
>> including artificial ones, in processed food and drink may have much
>> more effect than realized. But that's just his belief; I don't think he
>> can point to much hard evidence.
>
> In my never humble opinion, the major culprit is the BMI (body mass
> index) of the parents. For example, both my parents BMI were within a
> few points of mine. This study is for parents and children:
> "Association of parental body mass index (BMI) with child’s health
> behaviors and child’s BMI depend on child’s age"
> <https://bmcobes.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40608-019-0232-x>
> Note that correlation between parents and their children's BMI
> improves with age.
>
> About 40 years ago, I became interested in the topic and decided to
> conduct an informal study among friends and coworkers. I asked them
> for their height and weight, and the height and weight of their
> parents, sisters, and brothers. Data collection proved to be far more
> difficult than I expected because of divorces and indeterminate
> patrimony). Maternal BMI correlation was amazingly close, while that
> father was sometimes radically different. Too bad we didn't have DNA
> testing at the time. After eliminating any suspicious paternal
> discrepancy rate, I had about 30 families to work with, all of which
> demonstrated a hereditary correlation within a few BMI points. No,
> this is not cherry picking.
>
> This is the kind of survey you can easily do in your spare time. Try
> it, but be prepared for some rather odd comments about patrimony:
> <https://www.livescience.com/375-surprise-1-25-dads-real-father.html>
>
> Full disclosure for your survey:
> I'm 77.1kg, 162cm height, BMI=27.4 (overweight):
> <https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/assessing/bmi/adult_bmi/metric_bmi_calculator/bmi_calculator.html>
> I still have my parents drivers licenses and can provide their data if
> you're interested.
>
> Basically, we inherit our body shape and BMI. It might be possible to
> convert the offspring of a couch potato family into someone more
> athletic, but would expect an uphill battle in sweat and dietary self
> control. I've tried it several times, and failed every time (because
> I'm lazy and tend to revert to comfort foods).

I see several problems with your theory. (This is Usenet, after all!)

For one thing, my two parents had radically different BMIs. I'm slimmer
than both. For another thing, my siblings vary quite a bit in BMI,
although I'm told we all look alike.

But a bigger problem is the greatly increased percentage of high BMI
people over the years. It's much faster than any potential change in
DNA. There must be some environmental factor.

>
>> On the other hand: I've long been a bit dismayed that cyclists are
>> expected to wear outlandish looking clothing. I understand there's
>> function to some of it (preventing wrinkles between one's saddle and
>> one's butt; or wicking sweat away). But why is it necessary to be an
>> advertising billboard? And why are even cycling shoes garishly colored?
>
> Welcome to the fashion bu$ine$$. I grew up in the downtown Smog
> Angeles garment district. In fashion, image is everything. In some
> areas, fashion is almost a uniform. I don't know if it's wanting to
> be part of the herd, or some fear of being recognized as being
> "different", but it's very common, especially among teens.
>
> Incidentally, fashion also tends to follow whatever society's rejects
> are wearing. A few years ago, it was fashionable for the men to look
> like they were just released from prison with ill fitting baggy pants.
> Instead of conforming to whatever the herd was wearing, they would
> display their non-conformance by wearing whatever the herd detested.
> Both extremes work quite well.

Yep. This goes back centuries. I like the book _Daily Life in Holland in
the year 1566_. Tons of details of everyday life, with lovely
illustrations. One bit was on the then-current fashion of slashed
clothing. Supposedly, mercenaries would plunder fine clothes, and if
they were too small they'd slash them in places to allow squeezing in.
That eventually caught on as a trendy fashion!

> Nobody looks good in Lycra, Spandex or other forms of stretch nylon.

I beg to differ! I fondly remember back when I was running (and driving
sag) for our club century, driving down the road and seeing a nice
looking woman standing to attack a hill. I thought "Wow, she looks
cute!" Turned out it was a good friend of ours. Also, a male friend of
ours confided that he really likes riding behind my wife. And so do I!

Our club used to do a big, family-themed invitational picnic ride. My
wife won the women's "best legs" contest one year. I won the inaugural
men's division the next year.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Re: technically, you're fat.

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Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
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 by: Frank Krygowski - Fri, 8 Apr 2022 21:18 UTC

On 4/8/2022 4:41 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 12:06:37 PM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
>>> According to the BMI I'm way fat (5'10", 195-200), and in order to bring
>>> it down to "normal" I would have to weigh only 170. Not gonna happen.
>>> Therefore I have entirely repressed the BMI from my consciousness.
>>
>> Bill, technically you're overweight and not obese. While that is of some
>> concern, remaining fit and exercising often can offset that.
>>
> Activity seems to be what kills folks ie lack of it. Than weight (within
> reason) being overweight but active seems to increase your life expectancy.

Also, BMI is overblown. Two men can have identical BMIs, when one is
quite fat and the other quite muscular.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Re: technically, you're fat.

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Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
From: ritzanna...@gmail.com (russellseaton1@yahoo.com)
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 by: russellseaton1@yahoo - Sat, 9 Apr 2022 01:22 UTC

On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 12:59:41 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 10:52:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >On 4/8/2022 12:54 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 21:08:11 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> https://1sportblog.com/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment.html
> >>
> >> The original article was in the Wall Street Journal and is easier to
> >> read:
> >> <https://www.wsj.com/articles/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment-11649096633>
> >>
> >>> warning, graphic:
> >>>
> >>> https://www.rawcyclingmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/vertical-600x900.jpg
> >>
> >> More of the same:
> >> <https://www.google.com/search?q=fat+cyclist&tbm=isch>
>
> >On one hand: It's easy to scorn fat people for their obvious lack of
> >personal discipline. But I watched a NOVA (PBS) program some months ago
> >that made a pretty convincing case that obesity has no obvious cause.
> >Eating less, for example, seems to make much less difference than
> >anticipated, because metabolism slows to compensate.
> >
> >The physician in our family thinks the prevalence of sweeteners,
> >including artificial ones, in processed food and drink may have much
> >more effect than realized. But that's just his belief; I don't think he
> >can point to much hard evidence.
> In my never humble opinion, the major culprit is the BMI (body mass
> index) of the parents. For example, both my parents BMI were within a
> few points of mine. This study is for parents and children:
> "Association of parental body mass index (BMI) with child’s health
> behaviors and child’s BMI depend on child’s age"
> <https://bmcobes.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40608-019-0232-x>
> Note that correlation between parents and their children's BMI
> improves with age.
>
> About 40 years ago, I became interested in the topic and decided to
> conduct an informal study among friends and coworkers. I asked them
> for their height and weight, and the height and weight of their
> parents, sisters, and brothers. Data collection proved to be far more
> difficult than I expected because of divorces and indeterminate
> patrimony). Maternal BMI correlation was amazingly close, while that
> father was sometimes radically different. Too bad we didn't have DNA
> testing at the time. After eliminating any suspicious paternal
> discrepancy rate, I had about 30 families to work with, all of which
> demonstrated a hereditary correlation within a few BMI points. No,
> this is not cherry picking.
>
> This is the kind of survey you can easily do in your spare time. Try
> it, but be prepared for some rather odd comments about patrimony:
> <https://www.livescience.com/375-surprise-1-25-dads-real-father.html>
>
> Full disclosure for your survey:
> I'm 77.1kg, 162cm height, BMI=27.4 (overweight):
> <https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/assessing/bmi/adult_bmi/metric_bmi_calculator/bmi_calculator.html>
> I still have my parents drivers licenses and can provide their data if
> you're interested.
>
> Basically, we inherit our body shape and BMI. It might be possible to
> convert the offspring of a couch potato family into someone more
> athletic, but would expect an uphill battle in sweat and dietary self
> control. I've tried it several times, and failed every time (because
> I'm lazy and tend to revert to comfort foods).
> >On the other hand: I've long been a bit dismayed that cyclists are
> >expected to wear outlandish looking clothing. I understand there's
> >function to some of it (preventing wrinkles between one's saddle and
> >one's butt; or wicking sweat away). But why is it necessary to be an
> >advertising billboard? And why are even cycling shoes garishly colored?
> Welcome to the fashion bu$ine$$. I grew up in the downtown Smog
> Angeles garment district. In fashion, image is everything. In some
> areas, fashion is almost a uniform. I don't know if it's wanting to
> be part of the herd, or some fear of being recognized as being
> "different", but it's very common, especially among teens.
>
> Incidentally, fashion also tends to follow whatever society's rejects
> are wearing. A few years ago, it was fashionable for the men to look
> like they were just released from prison with ill fitting baggy pants.
> Instead of conforming to whatever the herd was wearing, they would
> display their non-conformance by wearing whatever the herd detested.
> Both extremes work quite well.
>
> Nobody looks good in Lycra, Spandex or other forms of stretch nylon.
> One could do better with spray-on or paint-on clothing. Either way,
> every lump, bump, bone, and credit card shows through the Spandex and
> looks awful. To disguise these aesthetic deformities, fashion
> designers use the same methods as military camouflage designers. They
> produce a design and color combination that hide details by breaking
> up large mono-colored areas, into small, multi-colored, and detailed
> patches. This also hides sweat stains, dirt, mud, lumps, questionable
> laundry procedures, and bumps created by wearing credit cards:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=camouflage+cycling+clothing&tbm=isch>
> >A fit time trialist with 8% body fat probably gets aero benefits from a
> >snug fitting jersey, but it doesn't have to display all his pretend
> >sponsors. A 200+ pound recreational cyclist doesn't need aero benefit at
> >all. I'd say a different costume is appropriate - something much more
> >like everyday clothing.
> Yep. There is another detail that would benefit a fat cyclist.
> Vertical lines tend to make one look taller, or less fat. You'll find
> quite a few horizontal line design on cycling jerseys because some
> cyclists perceive themselves as being too tall.
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=cycling+jersey+horizontal+lines&tbm=isch>
> It used to be that jerseys with horizontal lines are for men, because
> most women will not tolerate wearing anything that makes them look
> fat. With today's computer generated jersey art, either way is
> acceptable.
>
> Drivel: Want to start a fashion or a fad? This might be a good
> starter:
> <https://hollynorth.com/product/movie-paint/>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

I am going to agree with Jeff on inheritance as the main contributor to children body shape. Not 100% though. In my family, and several friends with children, it is easy to see the body shape of the child and parent. Sometimes only one of the parents. Sometimes a mixture of both parents. With my siblings, my two brothers inherited Dad's shape. Sister got Mom's shape. I was a mix of the two. One pair of friends with two daughters. One is 100% inherited from Dad. Other is about 2/3% from Mom and 1/3% from Dad. Other couple, son is 100% Dad. Daughter is 1/2 and 1/2. Parent DNA, genetics determine the child.

As Frank said in a follow up post, environment affects things too. Just not as much as genetics. Change in eating habits and food over the years. Change in exercise or physical work over the years.

Jeff, you wrote the following:
> Nobody looks good in Lycra, Spandex or other forms of stretch nylon.

You need to expand where you are looking. Now, I agree for some, many, it should be a crime. A felony, not a misdemeanor. But for others, yes yes yes.

Re: technically, you're fat.

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From: slocom...@gmail.com (John B.)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2022 13:07:30 +0700
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 by: John B. - Sat, 9 Apr 2022 06:07 UTC

On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 20:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
<roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

>Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 12:06:37 PM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
>>> According to the BMI I'm way fat (5'10", 195-200), and in order to bring
>>> it down to "normal" I would have to weigh only 170. Not gonna happen.
>>> Therefore I have entirely repressed the BMI from my consciousness.
>>
>> Bill, technically you're overweight and not obese. While that is of some
>> concern, remaining fit and exercising often can offset that.
>>
>Activity seems to be what kills folks ie lack of it. Than weight (within
>reason) being overweight but active seems to increase your life expectancy.
>
>Roger Merriman

Sure, If you are very active you may well be "over weight" and still
very healthy. But what is "active". When I was running I used to run
(not jog) 5 miles before breakfast Monday thru Friday and 20 miles on
Sunday.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Re: technically, you're fat.

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Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
From: timothy4...@gmail.com (Tim R)
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 by: Tim R - Sat, 9 Apr 2022 12:53 UTC

On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 1:59:41 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Basically, we inherit our body shape and BMI. It might be possible to
> convert the offspring of a couch potato family into someone more
> athletic, but would expect an uphill battle in sweat and dietary self
> control. I've tried it several times, and failed every time (because
> I'm lazy and tend to revert to comfort foods).

Clearly something is different.
In 1960 the average weight of a US male was 166 pounds. Now it's 195.5.
I don't claim to know why. I do remember being in grad school in the late 1970s, and watching our Wisconsin women's gymnastic team. They looked really fit, then the Japanese team visited and all of a sudden our team looked a little heavy by comparison.

At any rate, strategy. There is something called the National Weight Control Registry. (http://www.nwcr.ws/) It tracks 10,000 people who've not only lost weight but kept it off. The common factor in the approach of successful weight losers is that they all tried multiple strategies before finding one that worked. The ones that worked were very different for different people.

Re: technically, you're fat.

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From: frkry...@sbcglobal.net (Frank Krygowski)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2022 10:42:44 -0400
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 by: Frank Krygowski - Sat, 9 Apr 2022 14:42 UTC

On 4/9/2022 8:53 AM, Tim R wrote:
> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 1:59:41 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Basically, we inherit our body shape and BMI. It might be possible to
>> convert the offspring of a couch potato family into someone more
>> athletic, but would expect an uphill battle in sweat and dietary self
>> control. I've tried it several times, and failed every time (because
>> I'm lazy and tend to revert to comfort foods).
>
> Clearly something is different.
> In 1960 the average weight of a US male was 166 pounds. Now it's 195.5.
> I don't claim to know why. I do remember being in grad school in the late 1970s, and watching our Wisconsin women's gymnastic team. They looked really fit, then the Japanese team visited and all of a sudden our team looked a little heavy by comparison.
>
> At any rate, strategy. There is something called the National Weight Control Registry. (http://www.nwcr.ws/) It tracks 10,000 people who've not only lost weight but kept it off. The common factor in the approach of successful weight losers is that they all tried multiple strategies before finding one that worked. The ones that worked were very different for different people.

Interesting link, thanks.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Re: technically, you're fat.

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From: frkry...@sbcglobal.net (Frank Krygowski)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2022 11:09:04 -0400
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 by: Frank Krygowski - Sat, 9 Apr 2022 15:09 UTC

On 4/9/2022 2:07 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 20:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>
>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 12:06:37 PM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
>>>> According to the BMI I'm way fat (5'10", 195-200), and in order to bring
>>>> it down to "normal" I would have to weigh only 170. Not gonna happen.
>>>> Therefore I have entirely repressed the BMI from my consciousness.
>>>
>>> Bill, technically you're overweight and not obese. While that is of some
>>> concern, remaining fit and exercising often can offset that.
>>>
>> Activity seems to be what kills folks ie lack of it. Than weight (within
>> reason) being overweight but active seems to increase your life expectancy.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> Sure, If you are very active you may well be "over weight" and still
> very healthy. But what is "active". When I was running I used to run
> (not jog) 5 miles before breakfast Monday thru Friday and 20 miles on
> Sunday.

There's been a lot of research attention lately on the question of how
much exercise is enough, or is optimum, etc. Study results seem to
differ of course, but the consensus seems to be that any exercise is
better than none, and that more is better up to a fairly high limit.

I think your 45 miles a week might have been labeled much more than was
necessary, and maybe more than was really desirable. OTOH, you still
seem to be alive!

--
- Frank Krygowski

Re: technically, you're fat.

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From: am...@yellowjersey.org (AMuzi)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
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 by: AMuzi - Sat, 9 Apr 2022 16:08 UTC

On 4/8/2022 8:22 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 12:59:41 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 10:52:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/8/2022 12:54 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 21:08:11 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://1sportblog.com/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment.html
>>>>
>>>> The original article was in the Wall Street Journal and is easier to
>>>> read:
>>>> <https://www.wsj.com/articles/plus-size-fitness-fans-call-for-more-inclusive-sports-gear-equipment-11649096633>
>>>>
>>>>> warning, graphic:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.rawcyclingmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/vertical-600x900.jpg
>>>>
>>>> More of the same:
>>>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=fat+cyclist&tbm=isch>
>>
>>> On one hand: It's easy to scorn fat people for their obvious lack of
>>> personal discipline. But I watched a NOVA (PBS) program some months ago
>>> that made a pretty convincing case that obesity has no obvious cause.
>>> Eating less, for example, seems to make much less difference than
>>> anticipated, because metabolism slows to compensate.
>>>
>>> The physician in our family thinks the prevalence of sweeteners,
>>> including artificial ones, in processed food and drink may have much
>>> more effect than realized. But that's just his belief; I don't think he
>>> can point to much hard evidence.
>> In my never humble opinion, the major culprit is the BMI (body mass
>> index) of the parents. For example, both my parents BMI were within a
>> few points of mine. This study is for parents and children:
>> "Association of parental body mass index (BMI) with child’s health
>> behaviors and child’s BMI depend on child’s age"
>> <https://bmcobes.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40608-019-0232-x>
>> Note that correlation between parents and their children's BMI
>> improves with age.
>>
>> About 40 years ago, I became interested in the topic and decided to
>> conduct an informal study among friends and coworkers. I asked them
>> for their height and weight, and the height and weight of their
>> parents, sisters, and brothers. Data collection proved to be far more
>> difficult than I expected because of divorces and indeterminate
>> patrimony). Maternal BMI correlation was amazingly close, while that
>> father was sometimes radically different. Too bad we didn't have DNA
>> testing at the time. After eliminating any suspicious paternal
>> discrepancy rate, I had about 30 families to work with, all of which
>> demonstrated a hereditary correlation within a few BMI points. No,
>> this is not cherry picking.
>>
>> This is the kind of survey you can easily do in your spare time. Try
>> it, but be prepared for some rather odd comments about patrimony:
>> <https://www.livescience.com/375-surprise-1-25-dads-real-father.html>
>>
>> Full disclosure for your survey:
>> I'm 77.1kg, 162cm height, BMI=27.4 (overweight):
>> <https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/assessing/bmi/adult_bmi/metric_bmi_calculator/bmi_calculator.html>
>> I still have my parents drivers licenses and can provide their data if
>> you're interested.
>>
>> Basically, we inherit our body shape and BMI. It might be possible to
>> convert the offspring of a couch potato family into someone more
>> athletic, but would expect an uphill battle in sweat and dietary self
>> control. I've tried it several times, and failed every time (because
>> I'm lazy and tend to revert to comfort foods).
>>> On the other hand: I've long been a bit dismayed that cyclists are
>>> expected to wear outlandish looking clothing. I understand there's
>>> function to some of it (preventing wrinkles between one's saddle and
>>> one's butt; or wicking sweat away). But why is it necessary to be an
>>> advertising billboard? And why are even cycling shoes garishly colored?
>> Welcome to the fashion bu$ine$$. I grew up in the downtown Smog
>> Angeles garment district. In fashion, image is everything. In some
>> areas, fashion is almost a uniform. I don't know if it's wanting to
>> be part of the herd, or some fear of being recognized as being
>> "different", but it's very common, especially among teens.
>>
>> Incidentally, fashion also tends to follow whatever society's rejects
>> are wearing. A few years ago, it was fashionable for the men to look
>> like they were just released from prison with ill fitting baggy pants.
>> Instead of conforming to whatever the herd was wearing, they would
>> display their non-conformance by wearing whatever the herd detested.
>> Both extremes work quite well.
>>
>> Nobody looks good in Lycra, Spandex or other forms of stretch nylon.
>> One could do better with spray-on or paint-on clothing. Either way,
>> every lump, bump, bone, and credit card shows through the Spandex and
>> looks awful. To disguise these aesthetic deformities, fashion
>> designers use the same methods as military camouflage designers. They
>> produce a design and color combination that hide details by breaking
>> up large mono-colored areas, into small, multi-colored, and detailed
>> patches. This also hides sweat stains, dirt, mud, lumps, questionable
>> laundry procedures, and bumps created by wearing credit cards:
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=camouflage+cycling+clothing&tbm=isch>
>>> A fit time trialist with 8% body fat probably gets aero benefits from a
>>> snug fitting jersey, but it doesn't have to display all his pretend
>>> sponsors. A 200+ pound recreational cyclist doesn't need aero benefit at
>>> all. I'd say a different costume is appropriate - something much more
>>> like everyday clothing.
>> Yep. There is another detail that would benefit a fat cyclist.
>> Vertical lines tend to make one look taller, or less fat. You'll find
>> quite a few horizontal line design on cycling jerseys because some
>> cyclists perceive themselves as being too tall.
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=cycling+jersey+horizontal+lines&tbm=isch>
>> It used to be that jerseys with horizontal lines are for men, because
>> most women will not tolerate wearing anything that makes them look
>> fat. With today's computer generated jersey art, either way is
>> acceptable.
>>
>> Drivel: Want to start a fashion or a fad? This might be a good
>> starter:
>> <https://hollynorth.com/product/movie-paint/>
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
> I am going to agree with Jeff on inheritance as the main contributor to children body shape. Not 100% though. In my family, and several friends with children, it is easy to see the body shape of the child and parent. Sometimes only one of the parents. Sometimes a mixture of both parents. With my siblings, my two brothers inherited Dad's shape. Sister got Mom's shape. I was a mix of the two. One pair of friends with two daughters. One is 100% inherited from Dad. Other is about 2/3% from Mom and 1/3% from Dad. Other couple, son is 100% Dad. Daughter is 1/2 and 1/2. Parent DNA, genetics determine the child.
>
> As Frank said in a follow up post, environment affects things too. Just not as much as genetics. Change in eating habits and food over the years. Change in exercise or physical work over the years.
>
> Jeff, you wrote the following:
>> Nobody looks good in Lycra, Spandex or other forms of stretch nylon.
>
> You need to expand where you are looking. Now, I agree for some, many, it should be a crime. A felony, not a misdemeanor. But for others, yes yes yes.
>

Many people look good in spandex from cyclists:
https://www.bikeraceinfo.com/images-all/photo-galleries-images/racers-images/hampsten-andrew/1987-tdf-21-hampsten.jpg

to golfers:
https://thumb-p6.xhcdn.com/a/XmlXUFYRHuaY-QqMwkX1Bg/000/320/359/596_450.jpg

I'm still riding vintage team jerseys I bought when they
were in style, many years ago.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Re: technically, you're fat.

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From: slocom...@gmail.com (John B.)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2022 05:43:17 +0700
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 by: John B. - Sat, 9 Apr 2022 22:43 UTC

On Sat, 9 Apr 2022 11:09:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 4/9/2022 2:07 AM, John B. wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 20:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 12:06:37 PM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
>>>>> According to the BMI I'm way fat (5'10", 195-200), and in order to bring
>>>>> it down to "normal" I would have to weigh only 170. Not gonna happen.
>>>>> Therefore I have entirely repressed the BMI from my consciousness.
>>>>
>>>> Bill, technically you're overweight and not obese. While that is of some
>>>> concern, remaining fit and exercising often can offset that.
>>>>
>>> Activity seems to be what kills folks ie lack of it. Than weight (within
>>> reason) being overweight but active seems to increase your life expectancy.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> Sure, If you are very active you may well be "over weight" and still
>> very healthy. But what is "active". When I was running I used to run
>> (not jog) 5 miles before breakfast Monday thru Friday and 20 miles on
>> Sunday.
>
>There's been a lot of research attention lately on the question of how
>much exercise is enough, or is optimum, etc. Study results seem to
>differ of course, but the consensus seems to be that any exercise is
>better than none, and that more is better up to a fairly high limit.
>
>I think your 45 miles a week might have been labeled much more than was
>necessary, and maybe more than was really desirable. OTOH, you still
>seem to be alive!

Well, I wasn't exactly exercising, I was practicing to be a runner, so
to speak, and for serious runners my schedule wasn't excessive at all.

But I wasn't bragging, I was trying to point out that "active" isn't a
specific term it is, in fact a very flexible term.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Re: technically, you're fat.

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From: slocom...@gmail.com (John B.)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2022 05:46:10 +0700
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 by: John B. - Sat, 9 Apr 2022 22:46 UTC

On Sat, 9 Apr 2022 05:53:44 -0700 (PDT), Tim R
<timothy42bach@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 1:59:41 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Basically, we inherit our body shape and BMI. It might be possible to
>> convert the offspring of a couch potato family into someone more
>> athletic, but would expect an uphill battle in sweat and dietary self
>> control. I've tried it several times, and failed every time (because
>> I'm lazy and tend to revert to comfort foods).
>
>Clearly something is different.
>In 1960 the average weight of a US male was 166 pounds. Now it's 195.5.
>I don't claim to know why. I do remember being in grad school in the late 1970s, and watching our Wisconsin women's gymnastic team. They looked really fit, then the Japanese team visited and all of a sudden our team looked a little heavy by comparison.
>
>At any rate, strategy. There is something called the National Weight Control Registry. (http://www.nwcr.ws/) It tracks 10,000 people who've not only lost weight but kept it off. The common factor in the approach of successful weight losers is that they all tried multiple strategies before finding one that worked. The ones that worked were very different for different people.

As I live in Thailand the only "Americans" I see are tourists and the,
rather overwhelming, single most noticeable feature, is that they are
all fat.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Re: technically, you're fat.

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From: jbee...@invalid.net.invalid (Joy Beeson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2022 00:39:26 -0400
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 by: Joy Beeson - Sun, 10 Apr 2022 04:39 UTC

On Sat, 9 Apr 2022 05:53:44 -0700 (PDT), Tim R
<timothy42bach@gmail.com> wrote:

> At any rate, strategy. There is something called the National Weight Control Registry. (http://www.nwcr.ws/) It tracks 10,000 people who've not only lost weight but kept it off. The common factor in the approach of successful weight losers is that they all tried multiple strategies before finding one that worked. The ones that worked were very different for different people.

I missed the entire peroxide shortage because I've always had a habit
of keeping a spare bottle in the laundry room.

Now I keep *two* spare bottles in the laundry room.

This is how yo-yo diets make people fat.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net

Re: technically, you're fat.

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From: slocom...@gmail.com (John B.)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2022 12:12:20 +0700
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 by: John B. - Sun, 10 Apr 2022 05:12 UTC

On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 00:39:26 -0400, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 9 Apr 2022 05:53:44 -0700 (PDT), Tim R
><timothy42bach@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> At any rate, strategy. There is something called the National Weight Control Registry. (http://www.nwcr.ws/) It tracks 10,000 people who've not only lost weight but kept it off. The common factor in the approach of successful weight losers is that they all tried multiple strategies before finding one that worked. The ones that worked were very different for different people.
>
>
>
>I missed the entire peroxide shortage because I've always had a habit
>of keeping a spare bottle in the laundry room.
>
>Now I keep *two* spare bottles in the laundry room.
>
>This is how yo-yo diets make people fat.

I believe that the problem is just that "diets". One goes on a diet to
lose weight.... and then what?
--
Cheers,

John B.

Re: technically, you're fat.

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From: ral...@invalid.com (Ralph Barone)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2022 13:38:43 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Ralph Barone - Sun, 10 Apr 2022 13:38 UTC

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 00:39:26 -0400, Joy Beeson
> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 9 Apr 2022 05:53:44 -0700 (PDT), Tim R
>> <timothy42bach@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> At any rate, strategy. There is something called the National Weight
>>> Control Registry. (http://www.nwcr.ws/) It tracks 10,000 people who've
>>> not only lost weight but kept it off. The common factor in the
>>> approach of successful weight losers is that they all tried multiple
>>> strategies before finding one that worked. The ones that worked were
>>> very different for different people.
>>
>>
>>
>> I missed the entire peroxide shortage because I've always had a habit
>> of keeping a spare bottle in the laundry room.
>>
>> Now I keep *two* spare bottles in the laundry room.
>>
>> This is how yo-yo diets make people fat.
>
> I believe that the problem is just that "diets". One goes on a diet to
> lose weight.... and then what?

One changes their diet to something that will support the target weight,
then hopefully loses weight asymptotically to that point. You don’t “go on”
or “go off” a diet. You change your diet.

Re: technically, you're fat.

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Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
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 by: Frank Krygowski - Sun, 10 Apr 2022 15:05 UTC

On 4/9/2022 6:43 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Apr 2022 11:09:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 4/9/2022 2:07 AM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 20:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 12:06:37 PM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
>>>>>> According to the BMI I'm way fat (5'10", 195-200), and in order to bring
>>>>>> it down to "normal" I would have to weigh only 170. Not gonna happen.
>>>>>> Therefore I have entirely repressed the BMI from my consciousness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill, technically you're overweight and not obese. While that is of some
>>>>> concern, remaining fit and exercising often can offset that.
>>>>>
>>>> Activity seems to be what kills folks ie lack of it. Than weight (within
>>>> reason) being overweight but active seems to increase your life expectancy.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> Sure, If you are very active you may well be "over weight" and still
>>> very healthy. But what is "active". When I was running I used to run
>>> (not jog) 5 miles before breakfast Monday thru Friday and 20 miles on
>>> Sunday.
>>
>> There's been a lot of research attention lately on the question of how
>> much exercise is enough, or is optimum, etc. Study results seem to
>> differ of course, but the consensus seems to be that any exercise is
>> better than none, and that more is better up to a fairly high limit.
>>
>> I think your 45 miles a week might have been labeled much more than was
>> necessary, and maybe more than was really desirable. OTOH, you still
>> seem to be alive!
>
> Well, I wasn't exactly exercising, I was practicing to be a runner, so
> to speak, and for serious runners my schedule wasn't excessive at all.

Oh, I understand. FWIW, one of our kids has done many marathons and
ultra-marathons, including a solo 100 mile run. That sort of thing takes
extreme training.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Re: technically, you're fat.

<t8m65hdnf3f0e3qstnpdrc97jk6estgqvt@4ax.com>

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From: slocom...@gmail.com (John B.)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: technically, you're fat.
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 05:37:34 +0700
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 by: John B. - Sun, 10 Apr 2022 22:37 UTC

On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 13:38:43 -0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
<ralph@invalid.com> wrote:

>John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 00:39:26 -0400, Joy Beeson
>> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 9 Apr 2022 05:53:44 -0700 (PDT), Tim R
>>> <timothy42bach@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> At any rate, strategy. There is something called the National Weight
>>>> Control Registry. (http://www.nwcr.ws/) It tracks 10,000 people who've
>>>> not only lost weight but kept it off. The common factor in the
>>>> approach of successful weight losers is that they all tried multiple
>>>> strategies before finding one that worked. The ones that worked were
>>>> very different for different people.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I missed the entire peroxide shortage because I've always had a habit
>>> of keeping a spare bottle in the laundry room.
>>>
>>> Now I keep *two* spare bottles in the laundry room.
>>>
>>> This is how yo-yo diets make people fat.
>>
>> I believe that the problem is just that "diets". One goes on a diet to
>> lose weight.... and then what?
>
>One changes their diet to something that will support the target weight,
>then hopefully loses weight asymptotically to that point. You don’t “go on”
>or “go off” a diet. You change your diet.

Err... yes, but that isn't what people do. There are enumerable diet
plans and "methods" to "lose weight". Google on "diet to lose weight"
and you get 2,320,000,000 hits. Or "places to lose weight" 304,000,000
hits.

And yes, I do understand that hits on Google are not exactly
conclusive indications but they are indicative of the interest people
take in the subject.

In fact, in my experience, people don't want to hear anything about,
"change your food intake" or "do you really need to ingest 14 bottles
of Coke every day", they want some sort of miracle cure.

Which was my point. A diet, per se, some temporary change in what one
eats simply to lose weight isn't really the best plan for being
"thin".
--
Cheers,

John B.

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