Interesting article on bicycling in Ukraine:
https://cyclingtips.com/2022/04/a-ukrainians-story-of-a-war-and-a-bike/

I certainly sympathize, and admire his courage.

Some technical points:

"After my Schwinn Rocket MTB was stolen a year ago, I worked hard and
bought a Cube Nuroad. I’d never cycled on gravel before but the
worldwide hype affected me too. Now I understand that for me, the bike
category doesn’t matter – MTB, fat bike, gravel, or city bike. I can be
happy with anything. Just a bike. No super speed, no perfect look. I
just need a reliable bike to ride with my wife and my friends. I’m
totally satisfied with my current bike-friend."

IOW, he went with the currently promoted fashion, then learned that
fashion didn't matter.

And speaking of fashion, of course his new bike came with disc brakes.
But then:

"A problem with my bike now is that the brakes are not working; I don’t
understand the technical aspects of bicycles, and the bike shops are
closed."

As I've said, caliper brakes operation is visually obvious, and brake
shoes last a long, long time. Not everyone can fix them, but I think
calipers are much more likely than discs to be covered by the mechanical
aptitude of an ordinary person.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Interesting article on bicycling in Ukraine:
> https://cyclingtips.com/2022/04/a-ukrainians-story-of-a-war-and-a-bike/
>
> I certainly sympathize, and admire his courage.
>
> Some technical points:
>
> "After my Schwinn Rocket MTB was stolen a year ago, I worked hard and
> bought a Cube Nuroad. I’d never cycled on gravel before but the
> worldwide hype affected me too. Now I understand that for me, the bike
> category doesn’t matter – MTB, fat bike, gravel, or city bike. I can be
> happy with anything. Just a bike. No super speed, no perfect look. I
> just need a reliable bike to ride with my wife and my friends. I’m
> totally satisfied with my current bike-friend."
>
> IOW, he went with the currently promoted fashion, then learned that
> fashion didn't matter.
>
> And speaking of fashion, of course his new bike came with disc brakes.
> But then:
>
> "A problem with my bike now is that the brakes are not working; I don’t
> understand the technical aspects of bicycles, and the bike shops are
> closed."
>
> As I've said, caliper brakes operation is visually obvious, and brake
> shoes last a long, long time. Not everyone can fix them, but I think
> calipers are much more likely than discs to be covered by the mechanical
> aptitude of an ordinary person.
>
>
On road rim brake pads do last, but once off road the wear rate, is worse
than disks in my experience. The canti CX bike I had before the Gravel
bike had a horrific wear rate! And even the old MTB etc I used back in the
day, wet gritty rides eat rim pads.

He has cable activated disks which sadly are more complicated, lot more
moving parts than hydraulic systems, and not a sealed system so stuff wears
and can and will fail.

Basically chose rim or hydraulic disks not cable disks!

Roger Merriman

On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 8:51:01 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > Interesting article on bicycling in Ukraine:
> > https://cyclingtips.com/2022/04/a-ukrainians-story-of-a-war-and-a-bike/
> >
> > I certainly sympathize, and admire his courage.
> >
> > Some technical points:
> >
> > "After my Schwinn Rocket MTB was stolen a year ago, I worked hard and
> > bought a Cube Nuroad. I’d never cycled on gravel before but the
> > worldwide hype affected me too. Now I understand that for me, the bike
> > category doesn’t matter – MTB, fat bike, gravel, or city bike. I can be
> > happy with anything. Just a bike. No super speed, no perfect look. I
> > just need a reliable bike to ride with my wife and my friends. I’m
> > totally satisfied with my current bike-friend."
> >
> > IOW, he went with the currently promoted fashion, then learned that
> > fashion didn't matter.
> >
> > And speaking of fashion, of course his new bike came with disc brakes.
> > But then:
> >
> > "A problem with my bike now is that the brakes are not working; I don’t
> > understand the technical aspects of bicycles, and the bike shops are
> > closed."
> >
> > As I've said, caliper brakes operation is visually obvious, and brake
> > shoes last a long, long time. Not everyone can fix them, but I think
> > calipers are much more likely than discs to be covered by the mechanical
> > aptitude of an ordinary person.
> >
> >
> On road rim brake pads do last, but once off road the wear rate, is worse
> than disks in my experience. The canti CX bike I had before the Gravel
> bike had a horrific wear rate! And even the old MTB etc I used back in the
> day, wet gritty rides eat rim pads.
>
> He has cable activated disks which sadly are more complicated, lot more
> moving parts than hydraulic systems, and not a sealed system so stuff wears
> and can and will fail.
>
> Basically chose rim or hydraulic disks not cable disks!

Thanks for that information Roger. I intend to change the mechanical disks on my gravel Cannondale Optima that the stoopid group here said did not exist, over to hydraulic/mechanical so that they engage from both sides at once and don't have that violent application.

Once I sell off the six bikes I'm trying to sell, that will leave me with the Optima, the Trek Alpha and the Colnago C50. Imagine only having three bikes plus my wife's three. I wonder what I should do with that Lemond titanium frame. The material is should be worth something to someone.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 8:51:01 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> Interesting article on bicycling in Ukraine:
>>> https://cyclingtips.com/2022/04/a-ukrainians-story-of-a-war-and-a-bike/
>>>
>>> I certainly sympathize, and admire his courage.
>>>
>>> Some technical points:
>>>
>>> "After my Schwinn Rocket MTB was stolen a year ago, I worked hard and
>>> bought a Cube Nuroad. I’d never cycled on gravel before but the
>>> worldwide hype affected me too. Now I understand that for me, the bike
>>> category doesn’t matter – MTB, fat bike, gravel, or city bike. I can be
>>> happy with anything. Just a bike. No super speed, no perfect look. I
>>> just need a reliable bike to ride with my wife and my friends. I’m
>>> totally satisfied with my current bike-friend."
>>>
>>> IOW, he went with the currently promoted fashion, then learned that
>>> fashion didn't matter.
>>>
>>> And speaking of fashion, of course his new bike came with disc brakes.
>>> But then:
>>>
>>> "A problem with my bike now is that the brakes are not working; I don’t
>>> understand the technical aspects of bicycles, and the bike shops are
>>> closed."
>>>
>>> As I've said, caliper brakes operation is visually obvious, and brake
>>> shoes last a long, long time. Not everyone can fix them, but I think
>>> calipers are much more likely than discs to be covered by the mechanical
>>> aptitude of an ordinary person.
>>>
>>>
>> On road rim brake pads do last, but once off road the wear rate, is worse
>> than disks in my experience. The canti CX bike I had before the Gravel
>> bike had a horrific wear rate! And even the old MTB etc I used back in the
>> day, wet gritty rides eat rim pads.
>>
>> He has cable activated disks which sadly are more complicated, lot more
>> moving parts than hydraulic systems, and not a sealed system so stuff wears
>> and can and will fail.
>>
>> Basically chose rim or hydraulic disks not cable disks!
>
> Thanks for that information Roger. I intend to change the mechanical
> disks on my gravel Cannondale Optima that the stoopid group here said did
> not exist, over to hydraulic/mechanical so that they engage from both
> sides at once and don't have that violent application.
>
> Once I sell off the six bikes I'm trying to sell, that will leave me with
> the Optima, the Trek Alpha and the Colnago C50. Imagine only having three
> bikes plus my wife's three. I wonder what I should do with that Lemond
> titanium frame. The material is should be worth something to someone.
>

You can get single or twin pots cable disks, cable activated hydraulic
system are all two pot.

I had both single and twin pots (cable) I disliked both, both in terms of
durability and power/control hence essentially getting a new group set on
my gravel bike, only the front derailleur remaining!

I suspect you have a drier climate so less likely to be plagued with
mud/grit chewing up the calliper and equally the advantages in
power/modulation will be less, for a full hydraulic system.

Roger merriman

On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 10:03:47 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 8:51:01 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>> Interesting article on bicycling in Ukraine:
> >>> https://cyclingtips.com/2022/04/a-ukrainians-story-of-a-war-and-a-bike/
> >>>
> >>> I certainly sympathize, and admire his courage.
> >>>
> >>> Some technical points:
> >>>
> >>> "After my Schwinn Rocket MTB was stolen a year ago, I worked hard and
> >>> bought a Cube Nuroad. I’d never cycled on gravel before but the
> >>> worldwide hype affected me too. Now I understand that for me, the bike
> >>> category doesn’t matter – MTB, fat bike, gravel, or city bike. I can be
> >>> happy with anything. Just a bike. No super speed, no perfect look. I
> >>> just need a reliable bike to ride with my wife and my friends. I’m
> >>> totally satisfied with my current bike-friend."
> >>>
> >>> IOW, he went with the currently promoted fashion, then learned that
> >>> fashion didn't matter.
> >>>
> >>> And speaking of fashion, of course his new bike came with disc brakes..
> >>> But then:
> >>>
> >>> "A problem with my bike now is that the brakes are not working; I don’t
> >>> understand the technical aspects of bicycles, and the bike shops are
> >>> closed."
> >>>
> >>> As I've said, caliper brakes operation is visually obvious, and brake
> >>> shoes last a long, long time. Not everyone can fix them, but I think
> >>> calipers are much more likely than discs to be covered by the mechanical
> >>> aptitude of an ordinary person.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> On road rim brake pads do last, but once off road the wear rate, is worse
> >> than disks in my experience. The canti CX bike I had before the Gravel
> >> bike had a horrific wear rate! And even the old MTB etc I used back in the
> >> day, wet gritty rides eat rim pads.
> >>
> >> He has cable activated disks which sadly are more complicated, lot more
> >> moving parts than hydraulic systems, and not a sealed system so stuff wears
> >> and can and will fail.
> >>
> >> Basically chose rim or hydraulic disks not cable disks!
> >
> > Thanks for that information Roger. I intend to change the mechanical
> > disks on my gravel Cannondale Optima that the stoopid group here said did
> > not exist, over to hydraulic/mechanical so that they engage from both
> > sides at once and don't have that violent application.
> >
> > Once I sell off the six bikes I'm trying to sell, that will leave me with
> > the Optima, the Trek Alpha and the Colnago C50. Imagine only having three
> > bikes plus my wife's three. I wonder what I should do with that Lemond
> > titanium frame. The material is should be worth something to someone.
> >
> You can get single or twin pots cable disks, cable activated hydraulic
> system are all two pot.
>
> I had both single and twin pots (cable) I disliked both, both in terms of
> durability and power/control hence essentially getting a new group set on
> my gravel bike, only the front derailleur remaining!
>
> I suspect you have a drier climate so less likely to be plagued with
> mud/grit chewing up the calliper and equally the advantages in
> power/modulation will be less, for a full hydraulic system.
>
> Roger merriman

The group on my Cannondale is a 9 speed Dura Ace so unless I want to change to 11 speed getting hydraulics is out of the question. And the aluminum frame doesn't like spreading the rear triangle for 11 speeds.

The single sided mechanicals are very abrupt but the TRP CX brakes are supposed to be very smooth according to them but I can't find a magazine test of them.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 10:03:47 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 8:51:01 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> Interesting article on bicycling in Ukraine:
>>>>> https://cyclingtips.com/2022/04/a-ukrainians-story-of-a-war-and-a-bike/
>>>>>
>>>>> I certainly sympathize, and admire his courage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some technical points:
>>>>>
>>>>> "After my Schwinn Rocket MTB was stolen a year ago, I worked hard and
>>>>> bought a Cube Nuroad. I’d never cycled on gravel before but the
>>>>> worldwide hype affected me too. Now I understand that for me, the bike
>>>>> category doesn’t matter – MTB, fat bike, gravel, or city bike. I can be
>>>>> happy with anything. Just a bike. No super speed, no perfect look. I
>>>>> just need a reliable bike to ride with my wife and my friends. I’m
>>>>> totally satisfied with my current bike-friend."
>>>>>
>>>>> IOW, he went with the currently promoted fashion, then learned that
>>>>> fashion didn't matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> And speaking of fashion, of course his new bike came with disc brakes.
>>>>> But then:
>>>>>
>>>>> "A problem with my bike now is that the brakes are not working; I don’t
>>>>> understand the technical aspects of bicycles, and the bike shops are
>>>>> closed."
>>>>>
>>>>> As I've said, caliper brakes operation is visually obvious, and brake
>>>>> shoes last a long, long time. Not everyone can fix them, but I think
>>>>> calipers are much more likely than discs to be covered by the mechanical
>>>>> aptitude of an ordinary person.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> On road rim brake pads do last, but once off road the wear rate, is worse
>>>> than disks in my experience. The canti CX bike I had before the Gravel
>>>> bike had a horrific wear rate! And even the old MTB etc I used back in the
>>>> day, wet gritty rides eat rim pads.
>>>>
>>>> He has cable activated disks which sadly are more complicated, lot more
>>>> moving parts than hydraulic systems, and not a sealed system so stuff wears
>>>> and can and will fail.
>>>>
>>>> Basically chose rim or hydraulic disks not cable disks!
>>>
>>> Thanks for that information Roger. I intend to change the mechanical
>>> disks on my gravel Cannondale Optima that the stoopid group here said did
>>> not exist, over to hydraulic/mechanical so that they engage from both
>>> sides at once and don't have that violent application.
>>>
>>> Once I sell off the six bikes I'm trying to sell, that will leave me with
>>> the Optima, the Trek Alpha and the Colnago C50. Imagine only having three
>>> bikes plus my wife's three. I wonder what I should do with that Lemond
>>> titanium frame. The material is should be worth something to someone.
>>>
>> You can get single or twin pots cable disks, cable activated hydraulic
>> system are all two pot.
>>
>> I had both single and twin pots (cable) I disliked both, both in terms of
>> durability and power/control hence essentially getting a new group set on
>> my gravel bike, only the front derailleur remaining!
>>
>> I suspect you have a drier climate so less likely to be plagued with
>> mud/grit chewing up the calliper and equally the advantages in
>> power/modulation will be less, for a full hydraulic system.
>>
>> Roger merriman
>
> The group on my Cannondale is a 9 speed Dura Ace so unless I want to
> change to 11 speed getting hydraulics is out of the question. And the
> aluminum frame doesn't like spreading the rear triangle for 11 speeds.

I thought 9-13 speed where same axel width? But I could well be wrong!

I went from Sora 9s to Tiagra 10s so I could get hydraulics and essentially
stuff that is if not just rebadged GRX inspired by.

>
> The single sided mechanicals are very abrupt but the TRP CX brakes are
> supposed to be very smooth according to them but I can't find a magazine test of them.
>
TRP Spyre it’s a technology dead end they are 9 years old, often called CX
but that’s what they are.

I upgraded my gravel bike to these, before going for the Tiagra groupset.

For what they are, nice brakes bit more power and modulation, do have to
adjust each pot which is slightly tedious but easy enough. I found with the
cable disks that running them quite close to the rotors made them less
grabby.

Roger Merriman

On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 5:24:01 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> Interesting article on bicycling in Ukraine:
> https://cyclingtips.com/2022/04/a-ukrainians-story-of-a-war-and-a-bike/
>
> I certainly sympathize, and admire his courage.
>
> Some technical points:
>
> "After my Schwinn Rocket MTB was stolen a year ago, I worked hard and
> bought a Cube Nuroad. I’d never cycled on gravel before but the
> worldwide hype affected me too. Now I understand that for me, the bike
> category doesn’t matter – MTB, fat bike, gravel, or city bike. I can be
> happy with anything. Just a bike. No super speed, no perfect look. I
> just need a reliable bike to ride with my wife and my friends. I’m
> totally satisfied with my current bike-friend."
>
> IOW, he went with the currently promoted fashion, then learned that
> fashion didn't matter.
>
> And speaking of fashion, of course his new bike came with disc brakes.
> But then:
>
> "A problem with my bike now is that the brakes are not working; I don’t
> understand the technical aspects of bicycles, and the bike shops are
> closed."
>
> As I've said, caliper brakes operation is visually obvious, and brake
> shoes last a long, long time. Not everyone can fix them, but I think
> calipers are much more likely than discs to be covered by the mechanical
> aptitude of an ordinary person.
>
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Your missing the point. It is not about hydraulic disk brakes.

Lou

On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 1:38:10 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 10:03:47 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 8:51:01 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>> Interesting article on bicycling in Ukraine:
> >>>>> https://cyclingtips.com/2022/04/a-ukrainians-story-of-a-war-and-a-bike/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I certainly sympathize, and admire his courage.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Some technical points:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "After my Schwinn Rocket MTB was stolen a year ago, I worked hard and
> >>>>> bought a Cube Nuroad. I’d never cycled on gravel before but the
> >>>>> worldwide hype affected me too. Now I understand that for me, the bike
> >>>>> category doesn’t matter – MTB, fat bike, gravel, or city bike. I can be
> >>>>> happy with anything. Just a bike. No super speed, no perfect look. I
> >>>>> just need a reliable bike to ride with my wife and my friends. I’m
> >>>>> totally satisfied with my current bike-friend."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> IOW, he went with the currently promoted fashion, then learned that
> >>>>> fashion didn't matter.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And speaking of fashion, of course his new bike came with disc brakes.
> >>>>> But then:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "A problem with my bike now is that the brakes are not working; I don’t
> >>>>> understand the technical aspects of bicycles, and the bike shops are
> >>>>> closed."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As I've said, caliper brakes operation is visually obvious, and brake
> >>>>> shoes last a long, long time. Not everyone can fix them, but I think
> >>>>> calipers are much more likely than discs to be covered by the mechanical
> >>>>> aptitude of an ordinary person.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> On road rim brake pads do last, but once off road the wear rate, is worse
> >>>> than disks in my experience. The canti CX bike I had before the Gravel
> >>>> bike had a horrific wear rate! And even the old MTB etc I used back in the
> >>>> day, wet gritty rides eat rim pads.
> >>>>
> >>>> He has cable activated disks which sadly are more complicated, lot more
> >>>> moving parts than hydraulic systems, and not a sealed system so stuff wears
> >>>> and can and will fail.
> >>>>
> >>>> Basically chose rim or hydraulic disks not cable disks!
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for that information Roger. I intend to change the mechanical
> >>> disks on my gravel Cannondale Optima that the stoopid group here said did
> >>> not exist, over to hydraulic/mechanical so that they engage from both
> >>> sides at once and don't have that violent application.
> >>>
> >>> Once I sell off the six bikes I'm trying to sell, that will leave me with
> >>> the Optima, the Trek Alpha and the Colnago C50. Imagine only having three
> >>> bikes plus my wife's three. I wonder what I should do with that Lemond
> >>> titanium frame. The material is should be worth something to someone.
> >>>
> >> You can get single or twin pots cable disks, cable activated hydraulic
> >> system are all two pot.
> >>
> >> I had both single and twin pots (cable) I disliked both, both in terms of
> >> durability and power/control hence essentially getting a new group set on
> >> my gravel bike, only the front derailleur remaining!
> >>
> >> I suspect you have a drier climate so less likely to be plagued with
> >> mud/grit chewing up the calliper and equally the advantages in
> >> power/modulation will be less, for a full hydraulic system.
> >>
> >> Roger merriman
> >
> > The group on my Cannondale is a 9 speed Dura Ace so unless I want to
> > change to 11 speed getting hydraulics is out of the question. And the
> > aluminum frame doesn't like spreading the rear triangle for 11 speeds.
> I thought 9-13 speed where same axel width? But I could well be wrong!
>
> I went from Sora 9s to Tiagra 10s so I could get hydraulics and essentially
> stuff that is if not just rebadged GRX inspired by.
> >
> > The single sided mechanicals are very abrupt but the TRP CX brakes are
> > supposed to be very smooth according to them but I can't find a magazine test of them.
> >
> TRP Spyre it’s a technology dead end they are 9 years old, often called CX
> but that’s what they are.
>
> I upgraded my gravel bike to these, before going for the Tiagra groupset.
>
> For what they are, nice brakes bit more power and modulation, do have to
> adjust each pot which is slightly tedious but easy enough. I found with the
> cable disks that running them quite close to the rotors made them less
> grabby.
From Memory 8-9-10 speed rear hubs are only 130 mm spacing. 11-12 are 135 mm more because they are making room for disk brakes. MTB's are now using 142 mm width.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 1:38:10 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 10:03:47 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 8:51:01 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Interesting article on bicycling in Ukraine:
>>>>>>> https://cyclingtips.com/2022/04/a-ukrainians-story-of-a-war-and-a-bike/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I certainly sympathize, and admire his courage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some technical points:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "After my Schwinn Rocket MTB was stolen a year ago, I worked hard and
>>>>>>> bought a Cube Nuroad. I’d never cycled on gravel before but the
>>>>>>> worldwide hype affected me too. Now I understand that for me, the bike
>>>>>>> category doesn’t matter – MTB, fat bike, gravel, or city bike. I can be
>>>>>>> happy with anything. Just a bike. No super speed, no perfect look. I
>>>>>>> just need a reliable bike to ride with my wife and my friends. I’m
>>>>>>> totally satisfied with my current bike-friend."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IOW, he went with the currently promoted fashion, then learned that
>>>>>>> fashion didn't matter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And speaking of fashion, of course his new bike came with disc brakes.
>>>>>>> But then:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "A problem with my bike now is that the brakes are not working; I don’t
>>>>>>> understand the technical aspects of bicycles, and the bike shops are
>>>>>>> closed."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I've said, caliper brakes operation is visually obvious, and brake
>>>>>>> shoes last a long, long time. Not everyone can fix them, but I think
>>>>>>> calipers are much more likely than discs to be covered by the mechanical
>>>>>>> aptitude of an ordinary person.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> On road rim brake pads do last, but once off road the wear rate, is worse
>>>>>> than disks in my experience. The canti CX bike I had before the Gravel
>>>>>> bike had a horrific wear rate! And even the old MTB etc I used back in the
>>>>>> day, wet gritty rides eat rim pads.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He has cable activated disks which sadly are more complicated, lot more
>>>>>> moving parts than hydraulic systems, and not a sealed system so stuff wears
>>>>>> and can and will fail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Basically chose rim or hydraulic disks not cable disks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for that information Roger. I intend to change the mechanical
>>>>> disks on my gravel Cannondale Optima that the stoopid group here said did
>>>>> not exist, over to hydraulic/mechanical so that they engage from both
>>>>> sides at once and don't have that violent application.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once I sell off the six bikes I'm trying to sell, that will leave me with
>>>>> the Optima, the Trek Alpha and the Colnago C50. Imagine only having three
>>>>> bikes plus my wife's three. I wonder what I should do with that Lemond
>>>>> titanium frame. The material is should be worth something to someone.
>>>>>
>>>> You can get single or twin pots cable disks, cable activated hydraulic
>>>> system are all two pot.
>>>>
>>>> I had both single and twin pots (cable) I disliked both, both in terms of
>>>> durability and power/control hence essentially getting a new group set on
>>>> my gravel bike, only the front derailleur remaining!
>>>>
>>>> I suspect you have a drier climate so less likely to be plagued with
>>>> mud/grit chewing up the calliper and equally the advantages in
>>>> power/modulation will be less, for a full hydraulic system.
>>>>
>>>> Roger merriman
>>>
>>> The group on my Cannondale is a 9 speed Dura Ace so unless I want to
>>> change to 11 speed getting hydraulics is out of the question. And the
>>> aluminum frame doesn't like spreading the rear triangle for 11 speeds.
>> I thought 9-13 speed where same axel width? But I could well be wrong!
>>
>> I went from Sora 9s to Tiagra 10s so I could get hydraulics and essentially
>> stuff that is if not just rebadged GRX inspired by.
>>>
>>> The single sided mechanicals are very abrupt but the TRP CX brakes are
>>> supposed to be very smooth according to them but I can't find a magazine test of them.
>>>
>> TRP Spyre it’s a technology dead end they are 9 years old, often called CX
>> but that’s what they are.
>>
>> I upgraded my gravel bike to these, before going for the Tiagra groupset.
>>
>> For what they are, nice brakes bit more power and modulation, do have to
>> adjust each pot which is slightly tedious but easy enough. I found with the
>> cable disks that running them quite close to the rotors made them less
>> grabby.
> From Memory 8-9-10 speed rear hubs are only 130 mm spacing. 11-12 are 135
> mm more because they are making room for disk brakes. MTB's are now using 142 mm width.
>
Correct, though somewhat muddled by Gravel bikes such as mine that use
older (designed) MTB wheels.

Roger Merriman

On 08/04/2022 21:38, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 10:03:47 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 8:51:01 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Interesting article on bicycling in Ukraine:
>>>>>> https://cyclingtips.com/2022/04/a-ukrainians-story-of-a-war-and-a-bike/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I certainly sympathize, and admire his courage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some technical points:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "After my Schwinn Rocket MTB was stolen a year ago, I worked hard and
>>>>>> bought a Cube Nuroad. I’d never cycled on gravel before but the
>>>>>> worldwide hype affected me too. Now I understand that for me, the bike
>>>>>> category doesn’t matter – MTB, fat bike, gravel, or city bike. I can be
>>>>>> happy with anything. Just a bike. No super speed, no perfect look. I
>>>>>> just need a reliable bike to ride with my wife and my friends. I’m
>>>>>> totally satisfied with my current bike-friend."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IOW, he went with the currently promoted fashion, then learned that
>>>>>> fashion didn't matter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And speaking of fashion, of course his new bike came with disc brakes.
>>>>>> But then:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "A problem with my bike now is that the brakes are not working; I don’t
>>>>>> understand the technical aspects of bicycles, and the bike shops are
>>>>>> closed."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I've said, caliper brakes operation is visually obvious, and brake
>>>>>> shoes last a long, long time. Not everyone can fix them, but I think
>>>>>> calipers are much more likely than discs to be covered by the mechanical
>>>>>> aptitude of an ordinary person.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> On road rim brake pads do last, but once off road the wear rate, is worse
>>>>> than disks in my experience. The canti CX bike I had before the Gravel
>>>>> bike had a horrific wear rate! And even the old MTB etc I used back in the
>>>>> day, wet gritty rides eat rim pads.
>>>>>
>>>>> He has cable activated disks which sadly are more complicated, lot more
>>>>> moving parts than hydraulic systems, and not a sealed system so stuff wears
>>>>> and can and will fail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Basically chose rim or hydraulic disks not cable disks!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for that information Roger. I intend to change the mechanical
>>>> disks on my gravel Cannondale Optima that the stoopid group here said did
>>>> not exist, over to hydraulic/mechanical so that they engage from both
>>>> sides at once and don't have that violent application.
>>>>
>>>> Once I sell off the six bikes I'm trying to sell, that will leave me with
>>>> the Optima, the Trek Alpha and the Colnago C50. Imagine only having three
>>>> bikes plus my wife's three. I wonder what I should do with that Lemond
>>>> titanium frame. The material is should be worth something to someone.
>>>>
>>> You can get single or twin pots cable disks, cable activated hydraulic
>>> system are all two pot.
>>>
>>> I had both single and twin pots (cable) I disliked both, both in terms of
>>> durability and power/control hence essentially getting a new group set on
>>> my gravel bike, only the front derailleur remaining!
>>>
>>> I suspect you have a drier climate so less likely to be plagued with
>>> mud/grit chewing up the calliper and equally the advantages in
>>> power/modulation will be less, for a full hydraulic system.
>>>
>>> Roger merriman
>>
>> The group on my Cannondale is a 9 speed Dura Ace so unless I want to
>> change to 11 speed getting hydraulics is out of the question. And the
>> aluminum frame doesn't like spreading the rear triangle for 11 speeds.
>
> I thought 9-13 speed where same axel width? But I could well be wrong!
>
> I went from Sora 9s to Tiagra 10s so I could get hydraulics and essentially
> stuff that is if not just rebadged GRX inspired by.
>
>>
>> The single sided mechanicals are very abrupt but the TRP CX brakes are
>> supposed to be very smooth according to them but I can't find a magazine test of them.
>>
> TRP Spyre it’s a technology dead end they are 9 years old, often called CX
> but that’s what they are.
>

I have Spyre, I like them. Hydraulic might be better, but for my mainly
on road riding they are good enough, much better than rim brakes.

I originally had cheaper, one-sided, mechanical and wasn't happy, and
so I replaced them with Spyre and compressionless cables, after which I
was happy.

I'm quite willing to accept hydraulic may be better, require less force,
but I like eight speed parts for cost, and because I have found them
easier to adjust. I don't know of eight speed brifters that support
hydraulic.

> I upgraded my gravel bike to these, before going for the Tiagra groupset.
>
> For what they are, nice brakes bit more power and modulation, do have to
> adjust each pot which is slightly tedious but easy enough. I found with the
> cable disks that running them quite close to the rotors made them less
> grabby.
>

I do adjust both sides, more like a tightening in sync, a quarter turn
each time. I find levers easier to use if the pads are as far from the
rotors as possible. I've found that gives me more power, particularly
from the hoods.

I'm not sure that I really understand modulation, as long as brakes have
power and don't grab I'm happy. My right hand is not as strong it once
was, partly due to a rapid wing mirror removal event.

Tom <Tom.spma@spam.com> wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 21:38, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 10:03:47 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 8:51:01 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Interesting article on bicycling in Ukraine:
>>>>>>> https://cyclingtips.com/2022/04/a-ukrainians-story-of-a-war-and-a-bike/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I certainly sympathize, and admire his courage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some technical points:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "After my Schwinn Rocket MTB was stolen a year ago, I worked hard and
>>>>>>> bought a Cube Nuroad. I’d never cycled on gravel before but the
>>>>>>> worldwide hype affected me too. Now I understand that for me, the bike
>>>>>>> category doesn’t matter – MTB, fat bike, gravel, or city bike. I can be
>>>>>>> happy with anything. Just a bike. No super speed, no perfect look. I
>>>>>>> just need a reliable bike to ride with my wife and my friends. I’m
>>>>>>> totally satisfied with my current bike-friend."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IOW, he went with the currently promoted fashion, then learned that
>>>>>>> fashion didn't matter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And speaking of fashion, of course his new bike came with disc brakes.
>>>>>>> But then:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "A problem with my bike now is that the brakes are not working; I don’t
>>>>>>> understand the technical aspects of bicycles, and the bike shops are
>>>>>>> closed."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I've said, caliper brakes operation is visually obvious, and brake
>>>>>>> shoes last a long, long time. Not everyone can fix them, but I think
>>>>>>> calipers are much more likely than discs to be covered by the mechanical
>>>>>>> aptitude of an ordinary person.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> On road rim brake pads do last, but once off road the wear rate, is worse
>>>>>> than disks in my experience. The canti CX bike I had before the Gravel
>>>>>> bike had a horrific wear rate! And even the old MTB etc I used back in the
>>>>>> day, wet gritty rides eat rim pads.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He has cable activated disks which sadly are more complicated, lot more
>>>>>> moving parts than hydraulic systems, and not a sealed system so stuff wears
>>>>>> and can and will fail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Basically chose rim or hydraulic disks not cable disks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for that information Roger. I intend to change the mechanical
>>>>> disks on my gravel Cannondale Optima that the stoopid group here said did
>>>>> not exist, over to hydraulic/mechanical so that they engage from both
>>>>> sides at once and don't have that violent application.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once I sell off the six bikes I'm trying to sell, that will leave me with
>>>>> the Optima, the Trek Alpha and the Colnago C50. Imagine only having three
>>>>> bikes plus my wife's three. I wonder what I should do with that Lemond
>>>>> titanium frame. The material is should be worth something to someone.
>>>>>
>>>> You can get single or twin pots cable disks, cable activated hydraulic
>>>> system are all two pot.
>>>>
>>>> I had both single and twin pots (cable) I disliked both, both in terms of
>>>> durability and power/control hence essentially getting a new group set on
>>>> my gravel bike, only the front derailleur remaining!
>>>>
>>>> I suspect you have a drier climate so less likely to be plagued with
>>>> mud/grit chewing up the calliper and equally the advantages in
>>>> power/modulation will be less, for a full hydraulic system.
>>>>
>>>> Roger merriman
>>>
>>> The group on my Cannondale is a 9 speed Dura Ace so unless I want to
>>> change to 11 speed getting hydraulics is out of the question. And the
>>> aluminum frame doesn't like spreading the rear triangle for 11 speeds.
>>
>> I thought 9-13 speed where same axel width? But I could well be wrong!
>>
>> I went from Sora 9s to Tiagra 10s so I could get hydraulics and essentially
>> stuff that is if not just rebadged GRX inspired by.
>>
>>>
>>> The single sided mechanicals are very abrupt but the TRP CX brakes are
>>> supposed to be very smooth according to them but I can't find a magazine test of them.
>>>
>> TRP Spyre it’s a technology dead end they are 9 years old, often called CX
>> but that’s what they are.
>>
>
> I have Spyre, I like them. Hydraulic might be better, but for my mainly
> on road riding they are good enough, much better than rim brakes.

Wasn’t much in it in the dry personally between good rim brakes (so not the
cantilevers on the CX bike!) and the cable disks, much better in the wet
though.
>
> I originally had cheaper, one-sided, mechanical and wasn't happy, and
> so I replaced them with Spyre and compressionless cables, after which I
> was happy.
>
> I'm quite willing to accept hydraulic may be better, require less force,
> but I like eight speed parts for cost, and because I have found them
> easier to adjust. I don't know of eight speed brifters that support
> hydraulic.
>
> certainly not for road shifters, which is presently 10s Tiagra some older
> 9s stuff I think? But be fairly clunky early hydraulics.

Doesn’t really sound like you need or want them which is fine!
>
>> I upgraded my gravel bike to these, before going for the Tiagra groupset.
>>
>> For what they are, nice brakes bit more power and modulation, do have to
>> adjust each pot which is slightly tedious but easy enough. I found with the
>> cable disks that running them quite close to the rotors made them less
>> grabby.
>>
>
> I do adjust both sides, more like a tightening in sync, a quarter turn
> each time. I find levers easier to use if the pads are as far from the
> rotors as possible. I've found that gives me more power, particularly
> from the hoods.
>
> I'm not sure that I really understand modulation, as long as brakes have
> power and don't grab I'm happy. My right hand is not as strong it once
> was, partly due to a rapid wing mirror removal event.
>
Essentially feel, good brakes you can hold a bike on the raggedy edge of
grip more noticeable off road as on road you generally have loads of grip.

Roger Merriman

On Tuesday, April 12, 2022 at 1:53:40 AM UTC-7, Tom wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 21:38, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 10:03:47 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 8:51:01 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> Interesting article on bicycling in Ukraine:
> >>>>>> https://cyclingtips.com/2022/04/a-ukrainians-story-of-a-war-and-a-bike/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I certainly sympathize, and admire his courage.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Some technical points:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "After my Schwinn Rocket MTB was stolen a year ago, I worked hard and
> >>>>>> bought a Cube Nuroad. I’d never cycled on gravel before but the
> >>>>>> worldwide hype affected me too. Now I understand that for me, the bike
> >>>>>> category doesn’t matter – MTB, fat bike, gravel, or city bike. I can be
> >>>>>> happy with anything. Just a bike. No super speed, no perfect look. I
> >>>>>> just need a reliable bike to ride with my wife and my friends. I’m
> >>>>>> totally satisfied with my current bike-friend."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> IOW, he went with the currently promoted fashion, then learned that
> >>>>>> fashion didn't matter.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And speaking of fashion, of course his new bike came with disc brakes.
> >>>>>> But then:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "A problem with my bike now is that the brakes are not working; I don’t
> >>>>>> understand the technical aspects of bicycles, and the bike shops are
> >>>>>> closed."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As I've said, caliper brakes operation is visually obvious, and brake
> >>>>>> shoes last a long, long time. Not everyone can fix them, but I think
> >>>>>> calipers are much more likely than discs to be covered by the mechanical
> >>>>>> aptitude of an ordinary person.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> On road rim brake pads do last, but once off road the wear rate, is worse
> >>>>> than disks in my experience. The canti CX bike I had before the Gravel
> >>>>> bike had a horrific wear rate! And even the old MTB etc I used back in the
> >>>>> day, wet gritty rides eat rim pads.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> He has cable activated disks which sadly are more complicated, lot more
> >>>>> moving parts than hydraulic systems, and not a sealed system so stuff wears
> >>>>> and can and will fail.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Basically chose rim or hydraulic disks not cable disks!
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for that information Roger. I intend to change the mechanical
> >>>> disks on my gravel Cannondale Optima that the stoopid group here said did
> >>>> not exist, over to hydraulic/mechanical so that they engage from both
> >>>> sides at once and don't have that violent application.
> >>>>
> >>>> Once I sell off the six bikes I'm trying to sell, that will leave me with
> >>>> the Optima, the Trek Alpha and the Colnago C50. Imagine only having three
> >>>> bikes plus my wife's three. I wonder what I should do with that Lemond
> >>>> titanium frame. The material is should be worth something to someone..
> >>>>
> >>> You can get single or twin pots cable disks, cable activated hydraulic
> >>> system are all two pot.
> >>>
> >>> I had both single and twin pots (cable) I disliked both, both in terms of
> >>> durability and power/control hence essentially getting a new group set on
> >>> my gravel bike, only the front derailleur remaining!
> >>>
> >>> I suspect you have a drier climate so less likely to be plagued with
> >>> mud/grit chewing up the calliper and equally the advantages in
> >>> power/modulation will be less, for a full hydraulic system.
> >>>
> >>> Roger merriman
> >>
> >> The group on my Cannondale is a 9 speed Dura Ace so unless I want to
> >> change to 11 speed getting hydraulics is out of the question. And the
> >> aluminum frame doesn't like spreading the rear triangle for 11 speeds.
> >
> > I thought 9-13 speed where same axel width? But I could well be wrong!
> >
> > I went from Sora 9s to Tiagra 10s so I could get hydraulics and essentially
> > stuff that is if not just rebadged GRX inspired by.
> >
> >>
> >> The single sided mechanicals are very abrupt but the TRP CX brakes are
> >> supposed to be very smooth according to them but I can't find a magazine test of them.
> >>
> > TRP Spyre it’s a technology dead end they are 9 years old, often called CX
> > but that’s what they are.
> >
> I have Spyre, I like them. Hydraulic might be better, but for my mainly
> on road riding they are good enough, much better than rim brakes.
>
> I originally had cheaper, one-sided, mechanical and wasn't happy, and
> so I replaced them with Spyre and compressionless cables, after which I
> was happy.
>
> I'm quite willing to accept hydraulic may be better, require less force,
> but I like eight speed parts for cost, and because I have found them
> easier to adjust. I don't know of eight speed brifters that support
> hydraulic.
> > I upgraded my gravel bike to these, before going for the Tiagra groupset.
> >
> > For what they are, nice brakes bit more power and modulation, do have to
> > adjust each pot which is slightly tedious but easy enough. I found with the
> > cable disks that running them quite close to the rotors made them less
> > grabby.
> >
> I do adjust both sides, more like a tightening in sync, a quarter turn
> each time. I find levers easier to use if the pads are as far from the
> rotors as possible. I've found that gives me more power, particularly
> from the hoods.
>
> I'm not sure that I really understand modulation, as long as brakes have
> power and don't grab I'm happy. My right hand is not as strong it once
> was, partly due to a rapid wing mirror removal event.

I suppose that this is entirely a matter of taste. Yesterday down in the garage I noticed that the Cannondale Optima gravel bike which I thought had cable brakes actually had cable actuated hydraulic brakes. I had gotten rather painful back injuries from the suddenness of the brake operation so I had assumed them to be cable actuated. At the moment, I am putting in road miles because I have a century on the 23rd and I really haven't put in sufficient long miles because of the weather conditions. The back pain probably came from overinflated tires and the jerking sudden stops of those disks. The pure hydraulics I had worked a great deal better but were still way too sudden. I will stay with rim brakes. I see no need to increase weight and wheel integrity for a slight advantage in conditions I don't ride in.