Eighteen years ago electric bikes may have been off topic, or in Ridealittle-speak "a troll". Today electric bikes are the hot topic, and very likely the future of cycling.

Ten years ago, when I got into electric biking, the bikes offered were overpriced crap. Today there are some really good electric bikes if you want to spend the money at one of the leading German makers. Beware though: I mean they're technically really good. By German law they're underpowered.

I've built two electric bikes specifically to suit my environment which, in a word, is hilly. The critical parameter is some extra oomph when I run out of gears to keep my heart rate below (in practice consistently at) permitted maximum, typically near the top of hills. I chose a very fine touring bike as the basis , and first fitted a motor to the front wheel. It lasted about 3500km, and I considered it such a good deal that I bought the next setup, a centre motor, from the same maker, Bafang, sold in Europe as 8FUN.

Unless you go for a top showroom bike that is customisable at your LBS, in which case you should specify the biggest legal motor or, in the States, where 750W motors are commonplace, choose a 350W or 500W motor for commuting, shopping, general social riding, plus a battery of around 15Ah, the best deal will be to buy a complete kit of motor and controls plus a suitable battery and fit it to a favorite bike. You don't want the controls crippled in the manner of manufacturers who think they're a branch of government. Note also that what really matters in an electric motor applied to cycling is two things: the torque of the motor rather than its "power", with some motor being much torquier than other (the ones I fitted had their origin in the famous BPM hillclimbing motors), and the biggest battery you want to lug around because bigger batteries offer more coulombs, which in electric bikes can be thought of not as the batteries's reserve power but as the maximum current available for instantaneous application. To me 350W, 15Ah, and the full suite of control options seem a sweet spot between power, range, and security in that range -- since I use the motor only for assistance, literally controlled by my heart rate, the battery has never returned home less than half full, even after a 50km ride. The first battery off my first motor is still good, and on standby as a spare battery.

It's not difficult to fit an electric motor to a bike; the most time-consuming part is making a neat wiring job. Here's a photo-essay about the front-wheel motor I fitted first while I worked out how powerful the motor on my bike should be, and how big the battery should be:
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGbuildingpedelec1.html

My bike with this motor is currently at 10600km.

Andre Jute --------
36V is a doddle after building tube amps that run off c2000V!

On Tuesday, April 12, 2022 at 10:10:49 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> Eighteen years ago electric bikes may have been off topic, or in Ridealittle-speak "a troll". Today electric bikes are the hot topic, and very likely the future of cycling.
>
> Ten years ago, when I got into electric biking, the bikes offered were overpriced crap. Today there are some really good electric bikes if you want to spend the money at one of the leading German makers. Beware though: I mean they're technically really good. By German law they're underpowered.
>
> I've built two electric bikes specifically to suit my environment which, in a word, is hilly. The critical parameter is some extra oomph when I run out of gears to keep my heart rate below (in practice consistently at) permitted maximum, typically near the top of hills. I chose a very fine touring bike as the basis , and first fitted a motor to the front wheel. It lasted about 3500km, and I considered it such a good deal that I bought the next setup, a centre motor, from the same maker, Bafang, sold in Europe as 8FUN.
>
> Unless you go for a top showroom bike that is customisable at your LBS, in which case you should specify the biggest legal motor or, in the States, where 750W motors are commonplace, choose a 350W or 500W motor for commuting, shopping, general social riding, plus a battery of around 15Ah, the best deal will be to buy a complete kit of motor and controls plus a suitable battery and fit it to a favorite bike. You don't want the controls crippled in the manner of manufacturers who think they're a branch of government. Note also that what really matters in an electric motor applied to cycling is two things: the torque of the motor rather than its "power", with some motor being much torquier than other (the ones I fitted had their origin in the famous BPM hillclimbing motors), and the biggest battery you want to lug around because bigger batteries offer more coulombs, which in electric bikes can be thought of not as the batteries's reserve power but as the maximum current available for instantaneous application. To me 350W, 15Ah, and the full suite of control options seem a sweet spot between power, range, and security in that range -- since I use the motor only for assistance, literally controlled by my heart rate, the battery has never returned home less than half full, even after a 50km ride. The first battery off my first motor is still good, and on standby as a spare battery.
>
> It's not difficult to fit an electric motor to a bike; the most time-consuming part is making a neat wiring job. Here's a photo-essay about the front-wheel motor I fitted first while I worked out how powerful the motor on my bike should be, and how big the battery should be:
> http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGbuildingpedelec1.html
>
> My bike with this motor is currently at 10600km.
>
> Andre Jute --------
> 36V is a doddle after building tube amps that run off c2000V!

I can vaguely remember not having much control over my temper when I was recovering from the concussion. I guess during this time Ridesalot blanked me out and I couldn't blame him if he did. But now that the Club Stupid are making anything I possibly could have said look mild in comparison, it would be interesting to know if he has blanked them out as well.

I see an electric bike as nothing more than a motor scooter with the ability to carry on after the battery dies. It would appear to me that this would make transportation much cheaper if you live in an area where things are close enough that you would rarely run your battery out and be forced to pedal a heavy bike on changeable terrain. I wish that our bay area temperature and wind velocity and direction would allow me to have enough riding to train for the coming century in two weeks. But such is luck. I went out Sunday and the wind was blowing dead against me and so strong that I was having trouble maintaining 10 mph. I was passed by a few young people but very few were out on such a day. I finally got to the turn around and coming back I was now so tired that 14 mph was fast. I did discover that I could hold a constant cadence without having to stop pedaling except in the normal spots like over train tracks and rough roads. When I got back and checked the Garmin I was somewhat surprised that I actually had a higher average speed than usual I suppose because riding up wind was so difficult I had to hold a constant speed so as not to have to accelerate again.

An ebike certainly wouldn't improve my training and the idea that they are good for anything other than minor transportation needs seems rather foreign to me. In 10,000 km how many batteries have your gone through?

On Tuesday, April 12, 2022 at 6:36:37 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 12, 2022 at 10:10:49 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > Eighteen years ago electric bikes may have been off topic, or in Ridealittle-speak "a troll". Today electric bikes are the hot topic, and very likely the future of cycling.
> >
> > Ten years ago, when I got into electric biking, the bikes offered were overpriced crap. Today there are some really good electric bikes if you want to spend the money at one of the leading German makers. Beware though: I mean they're technically really good. By German law they're underpowered.
> >
> > I've built two electric bikes specifically to suit my environment which, in a word, is hilly. The critical parameter is some extra oomph when I run out of gears to keep my heart rate below (in practice consistently at) permitted maximum, typically near the top of hills. I chose a very fine touring bike as the basis , and first fitted a motor to the front wheel. It lasted about 3500km, and I considered it such a good deal that I bought the next setup, a centre motor, from the same maker, Bafang, sold in Europe as 8FUN.
> >
> > Unless you go for a top showroom bike that is customisable at your LBS, in which case you should specify the biggest legal motor or, in the States, where 750W motors are commonplace, choose a 350W or 500W motor for commuting, shopping, general social riding, plus a battery of around 15Ah, the best deal will be to buy a complete kit of motor and controls plus a suitable battery and fit it to a favorite bike. You don't want the controls crippled in the manner of manufacturers who think they're a branch of government. Note also that what really matters in an electric motor applied to cycling is two things: the torque of the motor rather than its "power", with some motor being much torquier than other (the ones I fitted had their origin in the famous BPM hillclimbing motors), and the biggest battery you want to lug around because bigger batteries offer more coulombs, which in electric bikes can be thought of not as the batteries's reserve power but as the maximum current available for instantaneous application. To me 350W, 15Ah, and the full suite of control options seem a sweet spot between power, range, and security in that range -- since I use the motor only for assistance, literally controlled by my heart rate, the battery has never returned home less than half full, even after a 50km ride. The first battery off my first motor is still good, and on standby as a spare battery.
> >
> > It's not difficult to fit an electric motor to a bike; the most time-consuming part is making a neat wiring job. Here's a photo-essay about the front-wheel motor I fitted first while I worked out how powerful the motor on my bike should be, and how big the battery should be:
> > http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGbuildingpedelec1.html
> >
> > My bike with this motor is currently at 10600km.
> >
> > Andre Jute --------
> > 36V is a doddle after building tube amps that run off c2000V!
> I can vaguely remember not having much control over my temper when I was recovering from the concussion. I guess during this time Ridesalot blanked me out and I couldn't blame him if he did. But now that the Club Stupid are making anything I possibly could have said look mild in comparison, it would be interesting to know if he has blanked them out as well.
>
> I see an electric bike as nothing more than a motor scooter with the ability to carry on after the battery dies. It would appear to me that this would make transportation much cheaper if you live in an area where things are close enough that you would rarely run your battery out and be forced to pedal a heavy bike on changeable terrain. I wish that our bay area temperature and wind velocity and direction would allow me to have enough riding to train for the coming century in two weeks. But such is luck. I went out Sunday and the wind was blowing dead against me and so strong that I was having trouble maintaining 10 mph. I was passed by a few young people but very few were out on such a day. I finally got to the turn around and coming back I was now so tired that 14 mph was fast. I did discover that I could hold a constant cadence without having to stop pedaling except in the normal spots like over train tracks and rough roads. When I got back and checked the Garmin I was somewhat surprised that I actually had a higher average speed than usual I suppose because riding up wind was so difficult I had to hold a constant speed so as not to have to accelerate again.
>
> An ebike certainly wouldn't improve my training and the idea that they are good for anything other than minor transportation needs seems rather foreign to me. In 10,000 km how many batteries have your gone through?
>
I haven't "gone through" any batteries at. Both the batteries that I bought with my two electric motors are still going strong.

But I know what you mean. People come up to me in the street or the supermarket and ask me the same question, and when I say I'm still after 8 years on the bike's first battery, they ask if I would like to sell the bike. There's often a Giant electric bike standing or hanging in their garage, nothing wrong with it except that it was crap to begin with, and replacing the batteries is now necessary. Despite me telling them when it was new to look after the battery, they didn't. They ran it flat, let it stand flat.

By way of contrast, my batteries have never been less than half full, including at the end of a long ride. I charge the battery even after a 3km ride to the shops or the library. That's the secret of long battery life.

Andre Jute -------
An electric bike extends your cycling life.