I have some 55 mm deep carbon wheels. I've been changing back to shallow wheels since I keep running across more and more instances of gusting wind presenting a real danger on rides. That last day I've been able to ride because of the weather was last Sunday.

I cross several bridges on the Bay Trail ride and on one of them a gust hit me as I was riding across one of them with a narrow pathway directly adjacent to some steel bars. I managed to keep the handlebars out of the dangerous area but not by much.

What's more, when you are riding at 15-17 mph that is not sufficient speed for you to get enough aero benefit from deep wheels to balance the possible dangers from the occasional gust even from a passing truck. DT Swiss and Bontrager both make good, light alloy wheels and I have also changed back entirely to alloy braking surfaces after sliding through a stop sign out into the road on a 20% descent. Now this probably wouldn't happen if you use Campagnolo carbon wheel brake pads, but alloy wheels still stop better. More and more it is getting dangerous in the bay area with people pulling out of driveways or right through red lights. Having the brakes to stop is becoming very important now.

Not to mention that I'm losing my nerve on steep fast descents as the roads decompose more and more into potholed messes. Where I might have gotten close to 50 mph I am now in the mid-20's and having to concentrate entirely on the road surface ahead. The last time I went through one of the canyons I did hit 35 mph but that was one of the increasingly rare areas where the pavement is still relatively smooth and you have enough visibility to see cars approaching the exits of their driveways.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have some 55 mm deep carbon wheels. I've been changing back to shallow
> wheels since I keep running across more and more instances of gusting
> wind presenting a real danger on rides. That last day I've been able to
> ride because of the weather was last Sunday.
>
> I cross several bridges on the Bay Trail ride and on one of them a gust
> hit me as I was riding across one of them with a narrow pathway directly
> adjacent to some steel bars. I managed to keep the handlebars out of the
> dangerous area but not by much.
>
> What's more, when you are riding at 15-17 mph that is not sufficient
> speed for you to get enough aero benefit from deep wheels to balance the
> possible dangers from the occasional gust even from a passing truck. DT
> Swiss and Bontrager both make good, light alloy wheels and I have also
> changed back entirely to alloy braking surfaces after sliding through a
> stop sign out into the road on a 20% descent. Now this probably wouldn't
> happen if you use Campagnolo carbon wheel brake pads, but alloy wheels
> still stop better. More and more it is getting dangerous in the bay area
> with people pulling out of driveways or right through red lights. Having
> the brakes to stop is becoming very important now.
>
> Not to mention that I'm losing my nerve on steep fast descents as the
> roads decompose more and more into potholed messes. Where I might have
> gotten close to 50 mph I am now in the mid-20's and having to concentrate
> entirely on the road surface ahead. The last time I went through one of
> the canyons I did hit 35 mph but that was one of the increasingly rare
> areas where the pavement is still relatively smooth and you have enough
> visibility to see cars approaching the exits of their driveways.
>

One of the reason I like the Gravel bike, is it’s somewhat more forgiving
with potholes etc, and generally is more capable of coping with surfaces
and having to brake hard etc.

Roger Merriman.

On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 4:04:04 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have some 55 mm deep carbon wheels. I've been changing back to shallow
> > wheels since I keep running across more and more instances of gusting
> > wind presenting a real danger on rides. That last day I've been able to
> > ride because of the weather was last Sunday.
> >
> > I cross several bridges on the Bay Trail ride and on one of them a gust
> > hit me as I was riding across one of them with a narrow pathway directly
> > adjacent to some steel bars. I managed to keep the handlebars out of the
> > dangerous area but not by much.
> >
> > What's more, when you are riding at 15-17 mph that is not sufficient
> > speed for you to get enough aero benefit from deep wheels to balance the
> > possible dangers from the occasional gust even from a passing truck. DT
> > Swiss and Bontrager both make good, light alloy wheels and I have also
> > changed back entirely to alloy braking surfaces after sliding through a
> > stop sign out into the road on a 20% descent. Now this probably wouldn't
> > happen if you use Campagnolo carbon wheel brake pads, but alloy wheels
> > still stop better. More and more it is getting dangerous in the bay area
> > with people pulling out of driveways or right through red lights. Having
> > the brakes to stop is becoming very important now.
> >
> > Not to mention that I'm losing my nerve on steep fast descents as the
> > roads decompose more and more into potholed messes. Where I might have
> > gotten close to 50 mph I am now in the mid-20's and having to concentrate
> > entirely on the road surface ahead. The last time I went through one of
> > the canyons I did hit 35 mph but that was one of the increasingly rare
> > areas where the pavement is still relatively smooth and you have enough
> > visibility to see cars approaching the exits of their driveways.
> >
> One of the reason I like the Gravel bike, is it’s somewhat more forgiving
> with potholes etc, and generally is more capable of coping with surfaces
> and having to brake hard etc.
My first "gravel bike" was a Resline CX bike on which I mounted some fairly easy 32 mm knobbys. I took it on one of the club rides when I was still riding with them and was pretty surprised at how nice it road even on smooth pavement.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 4:04:04 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I have some 55 mm deep carbon wheels. I've been changing back to shallow
>>> wheels since I keep running across more and more instances of gusting
>>> wind presenting a real danger on rides. That last day I've been able to
>>> ride because of the weather was last Sunday.
>>>
>>> I cross several bridges on the Bay Trail ride and on one of them a gust
>>> hit me as I was riding across one of them with a narrow pathway directly
>>> adjacent to some steel bars. I managed to keep the handlebars out of the
>>> dangerous area but not by much.
>>>
>>> What's more, when you are riding at 15-17 mph that is not sufficient
>>> speed for you to get enough aero benefit from deep wheels to balance the
>>> possible dangers from the occasional gust even from a passing truck. DT
>>> Swiss and Bontrager both make good, light alloy wheels and I have also
>>> changed back entirely to alloy braking surfaces after sliding through a
>>> stop sign out into the road on a 20% descent. Now this probably wouldn't
>>> happen if you use Campagnolo carbon wheel brake pads, but alloy wheels
>>> still stop better. More and more it is getting dangerous in the bay area
>>> with people pulling out of driveways or right through red lights. Having
>>> the brakes to stop is becoming very important now.
>>>
>>> Not to mention that I'm losing my nerve on steep fast descents as the
>>> roads decompose more and more into potholed messes. Where I might have
>>> gotten close to 50 mph I am now in the mid-20's and having to concentrate
>>> entirely on the road surface ahead. The last time I went through one of
>>> the canyons I did hit 35 mph but that was one of the increasingly rare
>>> areas where the pavement is still relatively smooth and you have enough
>>> visibility to see cars approaching the exits of their driveways.
>>>
>> One of the reason I like the Gravel bike, is it’s somewhat more forgiving
>> with potholes etc, and generally is more capable of coping with surfaces
>> and having to brake hard etc.
> My first "gravel bike" was a Resline CX bike on which I mounted some
> fairly easy 32 mm knobbys. I took it on one of the club rides when I was
> still riding with them and was pretty surprised at how nice it road even
> on smooth pavement.
>

Clearly some gravel bikes with essentially MTB tires fitted are likely to
feel more compromised though very comfortable on road. My MTB is buttery
smooth on roads as you’d expect!

But certainly gravel bikes nr the CX end are great for mixed use ie they
feel fast enough on the road, yet can be used off road comfortably as well.

Roger Merriman

On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 1:14:19 a.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 4:04:04 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> I have some 55 mm deep carbon wheels. I've been changing back to shallow
> >>> wheels since I keep running across more and more instances of gusting
> >>> wind presenting a real danger on rides. That last day I've been able to
> >>> ride because of the weather was last Sunday.
> >>>
> >>> I cross several bridges on the Bay Trail ride and on one of them a gust
> >>> hit me as I was riding across one of them with a narrow pathway directly
> >>> adjacent to some steel bars. I managed to keep the handlebars out of the
> >>> dangerous area but not by much.
> >>>
> >>> What's more, when you are riding at 15-17 mph that is not sufficient
> >>> speed for you to get enough aero benefit from deep wheels to balance the
> >>> possible dangers from the occasional gust even from a passing truck. DT
> >>> Swiss and Bontrager both make good, light alloy wheels and I have also
> >>> changed back entirely to alloy braking surfaces after sliding through a
> >>> stop sign out into the road on a 20% descent. Now this probably wouldn't
> >>> happen if you use Campagnolo carbon wheel brake pads, but alloy wheels
> >>> still stop better. More and more it is getting dangerous in the bay area
> >>> with people pulling out of driveways or right through red lights. Having
> >>> the brakes to stop is becoming very important now.
> >>>
> >>> Not to mention that I'm losing my nerve on steep fast descents as the
> >>> roads decompose more and more into potholed messes. Where I might have
> >>> gotten close to 50 mph I am now in the mid-20's and having to concentrate
> >>> entirely on the road surface ahead. The last time I went through one of
> >>> the canyons I did hit 35 mph but that was one of the increasingly rare
> >>> areas where the pavement is still relatively smooth and you have enough
> >>> visibility to see cars approaching the exits of their driveways.
> >>>
> >> One of the reason I like the Gravel bike, is it’s somewhat more forgiving
> >> with potholes etc, and generally is more capable of coping with surfaces
> >> and having to brake hard etc.
> > My first "gravel bike" was a Resline CX bike on which I mounted some
> > fairly easy 32 mm knobbys. I took it on one of the club rides when I was
> > still riding with them and was pretty surprised at how nice it road even
> > on smooth pavement.
> >
> Clearly some gravel bikes with essentially MTB tires fitted are likely to
> feel more compromised though very comfortable on road. My MTB is buttery
> smooth on roads as you’d expect!
>
> But certainly gravel bikes nr the CX end are great for mixed use ie they
> feel fast enough on the road, yet can be used off road comfortably as well.
>
> Roger Merriman

I have a 1980's era MIELE MTB that I use a lot on t he roads. It has a drop handlebar with bar-end shifters, interrupter brake levers and V-brake drop-bar brake levers. It also has front and rear luggage racks and it's a joy to ride especially if I mount 1.5" smooth street tires on it. With the normal knobby 2.0" tires it's very versatile and I've often detoured onto a gravel road with it and then onto trails in the woods.

Cheers

Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 1:14:19 a.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 4:04:04 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I have some 55 mm deep carbon wheels. I've been changing back to shallow
>>>>> wheels since I keep running across more and more instances of gusting
>>>>> wind presenting a real danger on rides. That last day I've been able to
>>>>> ride because of the weather was last Sunday.
>>>>>
>>>>> I cross several bridges on the Bay Trail ride and on one of them a gust
>>>>> hit me as I was riding across one of them with a narrow pathway directly
>>>>> adjacent to some steel bars. I managed to keep the handlebars out of the
>>>>> dangerous area but not by much.
>>>>>
>>>>> What's more, when you are riding at 15-17 mph that is not sufficient
>>>>> speed for you to get enough aero benefit from deep wheels to balance the
>>>>> possible dangers from the occasional gust even from a passing truck. DT
>>>>> Swiss and Bontrager both make good, light alloy wheels and I have also
>>>>> changed back entirely to alloy braking surfaces after sliding through a
>>>>> stop sign out into the road on a 20% descent. Now this probably wouldn't
>>>>> happen if you use Campagnolo carbon wheel brake pads, but alloy wheels
>>>>> still stop better. More and more it is getting dangerous in the bay area
>>>>> with people pulling out of driveways or right through red lights. Having
>>>>> the brakes to stop is becoming very important now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not to mention that I'm losing my nerve on steep fast descents as the
>>>>> roads decompose more and more into potholed messes. Where I might have
>>>>> gotten close to 50 mph I am now in the mid-20's and having to concentrate
>>>>> entirely on the road surface ahead. The last time I went through one of
>>>>> the canyons I did hit 35 mph but that was one of the increasingly rare
>>>>> areas where the pavement is still relatively smooth and you have enough
>>>>> visibility to see cars approaching the exits of their driveways.
>>>>>
>>>> One of the reason I like the Gravel bike, is it’s somewhat more forgiving
>>>> with potholes etc, and generally is more capable of coping with surfaces
>>>> and having to brake hard etc.
>>> My first "gravel bike" was a Resline CX bike on which I mounted some
>>> fairly easy 32 mm knobbys. I took it on one of the club rides when I was
>>> still riding with them and was pretty surprised at how nice it road even
>>> on smooth pavement.
>>>
>> Clearly some gravel bikes with essentially MTB tires fitted are likely to
>> feel more compromised though very comfortable on road. My MTB is buttery
>> smooth on roads as you’d expect!
>>
>> But certainly gravel bikes nr the CX end are great for mixed use ie they
>> feel fast enough on the road, yet can be used off road comfortably as well.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> I have a 1980's era MIELE MTB that I use a lot on t he roads. It has a
> drop handlebar with bar-end shifters, interrupter brake levers and
> V-brake drop-bar brake levers. It also has front and rear luggage racks
> and it's a joy to ride especially if I mount 1.5" smooth street tires on
> it. With the normal knobby 2.0" tires it's very versatile and I've often
> detoured onto a gravel road with it and then onto trails in the woods.
>
> Cheers
>

My commute bike isn’t as old only being 17 years old! But still a old MTB!,
But fitted with rigid forks for maintenance reasons, and panniers and what
not.

As long as it’s not too wet, the BigApple tires do decent job, on some of
the woods and what not to work. But makes for a comfortable ride.

Roger Merriman

On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 5:57:26 p.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 1:14:19 a.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 4:04:04 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> I have some 55 mm deep carbon wheels. I've been changing back to shallow
> >>>>> wheels since I keep running across more and more instances of gusting
> >>>>> wind presenting a real danger on rides. That last day I've been able to
> >>>>> ride because of the weather was last Sunday.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I cross several bridges on the Bay Trail ride and on one of them a gust
> >>>>> hit me as I was riding across one of them with a narrow pathway directly
> >>>>> adjacent to some steel bars. I managed to keep the handlebars out of the
> >>>>> dangerous area but not by much.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What's more, when you are riding at 15-17 mph that is not sufficient
> >>>>> speed for you to get enough aero benefit from deep wheels to balance the
> >>>>> possible dangers from the occasional gust even from a passing truck.. DT
> >>>>> Swiss and Bontrager both make good, light alloy wheels and I have also
> >>>>> changed back entirely to alloy braking surfaces after sliding through a
> >>>>> stop sign out into the road on a 20% descent. Now this probably wouldn't
> >>>>> happen if you use Campagnolo carbon wheel brake pads, but alloy wheels
> >>>>> still stop better. More and more it is getting dangerous in the bay area
> >>>>> with people pulling out of driveways or right through red lights. Having
> >>>>> the brakes to stop is becoming very important now.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Not to mention that I'm losing my nerve on steep fast descents as the
> >>>>> roads decompose more and more into potholed messes. Where I might have
> >>>>> gotten close to 50 mph I am now in the mid-20's and having to concentrate
> >>>>> entirely on the road surface ahead. The last time I went through one of
> >>>>> the canyons I did hit 35 mph but that was one of the increasingly rare
> >>>>> areas where the pavement is still relatively smooth and you have enough
> >>>>> visibility to see cars approaching the exits of their driveways.
> >>>>>
> >>>> One of the reason I like the Gravel bike, is it’s somewhat more forgiving
> >>>> with potholes etc, and generally is more capable of coping with surfaces
> >>>> and having to brake hard etc.
> >>> My first "gravel bike" was a Resline CX bike on which I mounted some
> >>> fairly easy 32 mm knobbys. I took it on one of the club rides when I was
> >>> still riding with them and was pretty surprised at how nice it road even
> >>> on smooth pavement.
> >>>
> >> Clearly some gravel bikes with essentially MTB tires fitted are likely to
> >> feel more compromised though very comfortable on road. My MTB is buttery
> >> smooth on roads as you’d expect!
> >>
> >> But certainly gravel bikes nr the CX end are great for mixed use ie they
> >> feel fast enough on the road, yet can be used off road comfortably as well.
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >
> > I have a 1980's era MIELE MTB that I use a lot on t he roads. It has a
> > drop handlebar with bar-end shifters, interrupter brake levers and
> > V-brake drop-bar brake levers. It also has front and rear luggage racks
> > and it's a joy to ride especially if I mount 1.5" smooth street tires on
> > it. With the normal knobby 2.0" tires it's very versatile and I've often
> > detoured onto a gravel road with it and then onto trails in the woods.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> My commute bike isn’t as old only being 17 years old! But still a old MTB!,
> But fitted with rigid forks for maintenance reasons, and panniers and what
> not.
>
> As long as it’s not too wet, the BigApple tires do decent job, on some of
> the woods and what not to work. But makes for a comfortable ride.
>
> Roger Merriman

I'm glad that you enjoy your bike.
My dropbar MTB is also a rigid fork and frame. Many people have built up similar bikes and enjoy them a lot.With 1.5" slicks or shallow tread tires these bikes also make great bikes for loaded touring.

Oh, I put V-brakes on the bike because they give more clearance/less interference with panniers than the cantilever brakes did.

Cheers

On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 2:57:26 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>
> My commute bike isn’t as old only being 17 years old!

I don't have an actual "commute" bike because I'm retired. But I still use what was my
commute bike for utility riding. I used it (as usual) on today's run to the grocery store.

I realized the other day that it has a birthday sometime this year. It's turning 50!

- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 2:57:26 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>
>> My commute bike isn’t as old only being 17 years old!
>
> I don't have an actual "commute" bike because I'm retired. But I still use what was my
> commute bike for utility riding. I used it (as usual) on today's run to the grocery store.
>
> I realized the other day that it has a birthday sometime this year. It's turning 50!
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>
Arguable more useful than a 50 year old car, most years have a fair in the
royal parks and I love the old bikes, which yes are a bit primitive but
still very much a bike.

And while off road is huge difference, on road older bikes particularly at
cafe stop pace or utility very little in it, if anything really folks who
have taken very old bikes on for example Tour de France original routes
etc, have said it’s the clothing than the bike which is the big change.

Roger Merriman.

Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 5:57:26 p.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 1:14:19 a.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 4:04:04 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I have some 55 mm deep carbon wheels. I've been changing back to shallow
>>>>>>> wheels since I keep running across more and more instances of gusting
>>>>>>> wind presenting a real danger on rides. That last day I've been able to
>>>>>>> ride because of the weather was last Sunday.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I cross several bridges on the Bay Trail ride and on one of them a gust
>>>>>>> hit me as I was riding across one of them with a narrow pathway directly
>>>>>>> adjacent to some steel bars. I managed to keep the handlebars out of the
>>>>>>> dangerous area but not by much.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's more, when you are riding at 15-17 mph that is not sufficient
>>>>>>> speed for you to get enough aero benefit from deep wheels to balance the
>>>>>>> possible dangers from the occasional gust even from a passing truck. DT
>>>>>>> Swiss and Bontrager both make good, light alloy wheels and I have also
>>>>>>> changed back entirely to alloy braking surfaces after sliding through a
>>>>>>> stop sign out into the road on a 20% descent. Now this probably wouldn't
>>>>>>> happen if you use Campagnolo carbon wheel brake pads, but alloy wheels
>>>>>>> still stop better. More and more it is getting dangerous in the bay area
>>>>>>> with people pulling out of driveways or right through red lights. Having
>>>>>>> the brakes to stop is becoming very important now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not to mention that I'm losing my nerve on steep fast descents as the
>>>>>>> roads decompose more and more into potholed messes. Where I might have
>>>>>>> gotten close to 50 mph I am now in the mid-20's and having to concentrate
>>>>>>> entirely on the road surface ahead. The last time I went through one of
>>>>>>> the canyons I did hit 35 mph but that was one of the increasingly rare
>>>>>>> areas where the pavement is still relatively smooth and you have enough
>>>>>>> visibility to see cars approaching the exits of their driveways.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the reason I like the Gravel bike, is it’s somewhat more forgiving
>>>>>> with potholes etc, and generally is more capable of coping with surfaces
>>>>>> and having to brake hard etc.
>>>>> My first "gravel bike" was a Resline CX bike on which I mounted some
>>>>> fairly easy 32 mm knobbys. I took it on one of the club rides when I was
>>>>> still riding with them and was pretty surprised at how nice it road even
>>>>> on smooth pavement.
>>>>>
>>>> Clearly some gravel bikes with essentially MTB tires fitted are likely to
>>>> feel more compromised though very comfortable on road. My MTB is buttery
>>>> smooth on roads as you’d expect!
>>>>
>>>> But certainly gravel bikes nr the CX end are great for mixed use ie they
>>>> feel fast enough on the road, yet can be used off road comfortably as well.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> I have a 1980's era MIELE MTB that I use a lot on t he roads. It has a
>>> drop handlebar with bar-end shifters, interrupter brake levers and
>>> V-brake drop-bar brake levers. It also has front and rear luggage racks
>>> and it's a joy to ride especially if I mount 1.5" smooth street tires on
>>> it. With the normal knobby 2.0" tires it's very versatile and I've often
>>> detoured onto a gravel road with it and then onto trails in the woods.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>> My commute bike isn’t as old only being 17 years old! But still a old MTB!,
>> But fitted with rigid forks for maintenance reasons, and panniers and what
>> not.
>>
>> As long as it’s not too wet, the BigApple tires do decent job, on some of
>> the woods and what not to work. But makes for a comfortable ride.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> I'm glad that you enjoy your bike.
> My dropbar MTB is also a rigid fork and frame. Many people have built up
> similar bikes and enjoy them a lot.With 1.5" slicks or shallow tread
> tires these bikes also make great bikes for loaded touring.
>
> Oh, I put V-brakes on the bike because they give more clearance/less
> interference with panniers than the cantilever brakes did.
>
> Cheers
>
Apparently Gravel bikes have peaked folks interest in 80/90 MTB and monster
cross bikes such as yours.

I never used good V brakes to be fair, my MTBs where canti, moving to disks
some of the bikes I had for commute etc had V brakes but fairly cheap so
not fair comparison.

Roger Merriman

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 6:26:31 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 2:57:26 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>
> >> My commute bike isn’t as old only being 17 years old!
> >
> > I don't have an actual "commute" bike because I'm retired. But I still use what was my
> > commute bike for utility riding. I used it (as usual) on today's run to the grocery store.
> >
> > I realized the other day that it has a birthday sometime this year. It's turning 50!
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> >
> Arguable more useful than a 50 year old car, most years have a fair in the
> royal parks and I love the old bikes, which yes are a bit primitive but
> still very much a bike.
>
> And while off road is huge difference, on road older bikes particularly at
> cafe stop pace or utility very little in it, if anything really folks who
> have taken very old bikes on for example Tour de France original routes
> etc, have said it’s the clothing than the bike which is the big change.

Try doing the big climbs and descents in wool jerseys and leather padded wool shorts.

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 6:30:27 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 5:57:26 p.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 1:14:19 a.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 4:04:04 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> I have some 55 mm deep carbon wheels. I've been changing back to shallow
> >>>>>>> wheels since I keep running across more and more instances of gusting
> >>>>>>> wind presenting a real danger on rides. That last day I've been able to
> >>>>>>> ride because of the weather was last Sunday.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I cross several bridges on the Bay Trail ride and on one of them a gust
> >>>>>>> hit me as I was riding across one of them with a narrow pathway directly
> >>>>>>> adjacent to some steel bars. I managed to keep the handlebars out of the
> >>>>>>> dangerous area but not by much.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What's more, when you are riding at 15-17 mph that is not sufficient
> >>>>>>> speed for you to get enough aero benefit from deep wheels to balance the
> >>>>>>> possible dangers from the occasional gust even from a passing truck. DT
> >>>>>>> Swiss and Bontrager both make good, light alloy wheels and I have also
> >>>>>>> changed back entirely to alloy braking surfaces after sliding through a
> >>>>>>> stop sign out into the road on a 20% descent. Now this probably wouldn't
> >>>>>>> happen if you use Campagnolo carbon wheel brake pads, but alloy wheels
> >>>>>>> still stop better. More and more it is getting dangerous in the bay area
> >>>>>>> with people pulling out of driveways or right through red lights. Having
> >>>>>>> the brakes to stop is becoming very important now.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Not to mention that I'm losing my nerve on steep fast descents as the
> >>>>>>> roads decompose more and more into potholed messes. Where I might have
> >>>>>>> gotten close to 50 mph I am now in the mid-20's and having to concentrate
> >>>>>>> entirely on the road surface ahead. The last time I went through one of
> >>>>>>> the canyons I did hit 35 mph but that was one of the increasingly rare
> >>>>>>> areas where the pavement is still relatively smooth and you have enough
> >>>>>>> visibility to see cars approaching the exits of their driveways.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> One of the reason I like the Gravel bike, is it’s somewhat more forgiving
> >>>>>> with potholes etc, and generally is more capable of coping with surfaces
> >>>>>> and having to brake hard etc.
> >>>>> My first "gravel bike" was a Resline CX bike on which I mounted some
> >>>>> fairly easy 32 mm knobbys. I took it on one of the club rides when I was
> >>>>> still riding with them and was pretty surprised at how nice it road even
> >>>>> on smooth pavement.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Clearly some gravel bikes with essentially MTB tires fitted are likely to
> >>>> feel more compromised though very comfortable on road. My MTB is buttery
> >>>> smooth on roads as you’d expect!
> >>>>
> >>>> But certainly gravel bikes nr the CX end are great for mixed use ie they
> >>>> feel fast enough on the road, yet can be used off road comfortably as well.
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger Merriman
> >>>
> >>> I have a 1980's era MIELE MTB that I use a lot on t he roads. It has a
> >>> drop handlebar with bar-end shifters, interrupter brake levers and
> >>> V-brake drop-bar brake levers. It also has front and rear luggage racks
> >>> and it's a joy to ride especially if I mount 1.5" smooth street tires on
> >>> it. With the normal knobby 2.0" tires it's very versatile and I've often
> >>> detoured onto a gravel road with it and then onto trails in the woods..
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >> My commute bike isn’t as old only being 17 years old! But still a old MTB!,
> >> But fitted with rigid forks for maintenance reasons, and panniers and what
> >> not.
> >>
> >> As long as it’s not too wet, the BigApple tires do decent job, on some of
> >> the woods and what not to work. But makes for a comfortable ride.
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >
> > I'm glad that you enjoy your bike.
> > My dropbar MTB is also a rigid fork and frame. Many people have built up
> > similar bikes and enjoy them a lot.With 1.5" slicks or shallow tread
> > tires these bikes also make great bikes for loaded touring.
> >
> > Oh, I put V-brakes on the bike because they give more clearance/less
> > interference with panniers than the cantilever brakes did.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> Apparently Gravel bikes have peaked folks interest in 80/90 MTB and monster
> cross bikes such as yours.
>
> I never used good V brakes to be fair, my MTBs where canti, moving to disks
> some of the bikes I had for commute etc had V brakes but fairly cheap so
> not fair comparison.

Because of the very steep descents off-road, cantilevers do not work even closely in the same realm as V-brakes but you have to select the brake to properly fit your bike. The position of a cantilever axle can vary all over the place between MTB's and CX and gravel bikes so the lever length has to be known.

On 4/16/2022 9:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 6:26:31 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 2:57:26 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My commute bike isn’t as old only being 17 years old!
>>>
>>> I don't have an actual "commute" bike because I'm retired. But I still use what was my
>>> commute bike for utility riding. I used it (as usual) on today's run to the grocery store.
>>>
>>> I realized the other day that it has a birthday sometime this year. It's turning 50!
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>> Arguable more useful than a 50 year old car, most years have a fair in the
>> royal parks and I love the old bikes, which yes are a bit primitive but
>> still very much a bike.
>>
>> And while off road is huge difference, on road older bikes particularly at
>> cafe stop pace or utility very little in it, if anything really folks who
>> have taken very old bikes on for example Tour de France original routes
>> etc, have said it’s the clothing than the bike which is the big change.
>
> Try doing the big climbs and descents in wool jerseys and leather padded wool shorts.
>

Why ever not?

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/16/2022 12:29 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/16/2022 9:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 6:26:31 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 2:57:26 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> My commute bike isn’t as old only being 17 years old!
>>>>
>>>> I don't have an actual "commute" bike because I'm retired. But I
>>>> still use what was my
>>>> commute bike for utility riding. I used it (as usual) on today's run
>>>> to the grocery store.
>>>>
>>>> I realized the other day that it has a birthday sometime this year.
>>>> It's turning 50!
>>>>
>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>
>>> Arguable more useful than a 50 year old car, most years have a fair
>>> in the
>>> royal parks and I love the old bikes, which yes are a bit primitive but
>>> still very much a bike.
>>>
>>> And while off road is huge difference, on road older bikes
>>> particularly at
>>> cafe stop pace or utility very little in it, if anything really folks
>>> who
>>> have taken very old bikes on for example Tour de France original routes
>>> etc, have said it’s the clothing than the bike which is the big
>>> change.
>>
>> Try doing the big climbs and descents in wool jerseys and leather
>> padded wool shorts.
>>
>
> Why ever not?

Because that's never been done? Never, ever?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 9:29:09 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/16/2022 9:47 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 6:26:31 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 2:57:26 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> My commute bike isn’t as old only being 17 years old!
> >>>
> >>> I don't have an actual "commute" bike because I'm retired. But I still use what was my
> >>> commute bike for utility riding. I used it (as usual) on today's run to the grocery store.
> >>>
> >>> I realized the other day that it has a birthday sometime this year. It's turning 50!
> >>>
> >>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>
> >> Arguable more useful than a 50 year old car, most years have a fair in the
> >> royal parks and I love the old bikes, which yes are a bit primitive but
> >> still very much a bike.
> >>
> >> And while off road is huge difference, on road older bikes particularly at
> >> cafe stop pace or utility very little in it, if anything really folks who
> >> have taken very old bikes on for example Tour de France original routes
> >> etc, have said it’s the clothing than the bike which is the big change.
> >
> > Try doing the big climbs and descents in wool jerseys and leather padded wool shorts.
> >
> Why ever not?
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Because that was still normal when I started riding. Wool Jersey's are OK other than being far too heavy, but leather pads when wet almost immediately start infections in your crotch. Man-made materials made a HUGE difference in multiday races and Grand Tours.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 6:26:31 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 2:57:26 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My commute bike isn’t as old only being 17 years old!
>>>
>>> I don't have an actual "commute" bike because I'm retired. But I still use what was my
>>> commute bike for utility riding. I used it (as usual) on today's run to
>>> the grocery store.
>>>
>>> I realized the other day that it has a birthday sometime this year. It's turning 50!
>>>
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>> Arguable more useful than a 50 year old car, most years have a fair in the
>> royal parks and I love the old bikes, which yes are a bit primitive but
>> still very much a bike.
>>
>> And while off road is huge difference, on road older bikes particularly at
>> cafe stop pace or utility very little in it, if anything really folks who
>> have taken very old bikes on for example Tour de France original routes
>> etc, have said it’s the clothing than the bike which is the big change.
>
> Try doing the big climbs and descents in wool jerseys and leather padded wool shorts.
>

Bizarrely I’ve done half of that in that some of my kit is merino wool!

But that was the point of the comment that cycling clothes have
dramatically improved over the years.

Roger Merriman

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 6:30:27 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 5:57:26 p.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 1:14:19 a.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 4:04:04 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I have some 55 mm deep carbon wheels. I've been changing back to shallow
>>>>>>>>> wheels since I keep running across more and more instances of gusting
>>>>>>>>> wind presenting a real danger on rides. That last day I've been able to
>>>>>>>>> ride because of the weather was last Sunday.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I cross several bridges on the Bay Trail ride and on one of them a gust
>>>>>>>>> hit me as I was riding across one of them with a narrow pathway directly
>>>>>>>>> adjacent to some steel bars. I managed to keep the handlebars out of the
>>>>>>>>> dangerous area but not by much.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What's more, when you are riding at 15-17 mph that is not sufficient
>>>>>>>>> speed for you to get enough aero benefit from deep wheels to balance the
>>>>>>>>> possible dangers from the occasional gust even from a passing truck. DT
>>>>>>>>> Swiss and Bontrager both make good, light alloy wheels and I have also
>>>>>>>>> changed back entirely to alloy braking surfaces after sliding through a
>>>>>>>>> stop sign out into the road on a 20% descent. Now this probably wouldn't
>>>>>>>>> happen if you use Campagnolo carbon wheel brake pads, but alloy wheels
>>>>>>>>> still stop better. More and more it is getting dangerous in the bay area
>>>>>>>>> with people pulling out of driveways or right through red lights. Having
>>>>>>>>> the brakes to stop is becoming very important now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not to mention that I'm losing my nerve on steep fast descents as the
>>>>>>>>> roads decompose more and more into potholed messes. Where I might have
>>>>>>>>> gotten close to 50 mph I am now in the mid-20's and having to concentrate
>>>>>>>>> entirely on the road surface ahead. The last time I went through one of
>>>>>>>>> the canyons I did hit 35 mph but that was one of the increasingly rare
>>>>>>>>> areas where the pavement is still relatively smooth and you have enough
>>>>>>>>> visibility to see cars approaching the exits of their driveways.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One of the reason I like the Gravel bike, is it’s somewhat more forgiving
>>>>>>>> with potholes etc, and generally is more capable of coping with surfaces
>>>>>>>> and having to brake hard etc.
>>>>>>> My first "gravel bike" was a Resline CX bike on which I mounted some
>>>>>>> fairly easy 32 mm knobbys. I took it on one of the club rides when I was
>>>>>>> still riding with them and was pretty surprised at how nice it road even
>>>>>>> on smooth pavement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly some gravel bikes with essentially MTB tires fitted are likely to
>>>>>> feel more compromised though very comfortable on road. My MTB is buttery
>>>>>> smooth on roads as you’d expect!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But certainly gravel bikes nr the CX end are great for mixed use ie they
>>>>>> feel fast enough on the road, yet can be used off road comfortably as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a 1980's era MIELE MTB that I use a lot on t he roads. It has a
>>>>> drop handlebar with bar-end shifters, interrupter brake levers and
>>>>> V-brake drop-bar brake levers. It also has front and rear luggage racks
>>>>> and it's a joy to ride especially if I mount 1.5" smooth street tires on
>>>>> it. With the normal knobby 2.0" tires it's very versatile and I've often
>>>>> detoured onto a gravel road with it and then onto trails in the woods.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>> My commute bike isn’t as old only being 17 years old! But still a old MTB!,
>>>> But fitted with rigid forks for maintenance reasons, and panniers and what
>>>> not.
>>>>
>>>> As long as it’s not too wet, the BigApple tires do decent job, on some of
>>>> the woods and what not to work. But makes for a comfortable ride.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> I'm glad that you enjoy your bike.
>>> My dropbar MTB is also a rigid fork and frame. Many people have built up
>>> similar bikes and enjoy them a lot.With 1.5" slicks or shallow tread
>>> tires these bikes also make great bikes for loaded touring.
>>>
>>> Oh, I put V-brakes on the bike because they give more clearance/less
>>> interference with panniers than the cantilever brakes did.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>> Apparently Gravel bikes have peaked folks interest in 80/90 MTB and monster
>> cross bikes such as yours.
>>
>> I never used good V brakes to be fair, my MTBs where canti, moving to disks
>> some of the bikes I had for commute etc had V brakes but fairly cheap so
>> not fair comparison.
>
> Because of the very steep descents off-road, cantilevers do not work even
> closely in the same realm as V-brakes but you have to select the brake to
> properly fit your bike. The position of a cantilever axle can vary all
> over the place between MTB's and CX and gravel bikes so the lever length has to be known.
>
Yup I tried all sorts of dark magic on the CX bike in particular to improve
its brakes, the older MTB at the time though fairly rubbish it was normal.

The CX with its canti was just dreadful bordering on terrifying off road on
uk gravel ie MTB lite stuff.

Roger Merriman.

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 11:06:07 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 6:26:31 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 2:57:26 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> My commute bike isn’t as old only being 17 years old!
> >>>
> >>> I don't have an actual "commute" bike because I'm retired. But I still use what was my
> >>> commute bike for utility riding. I used it (as usual) on today's run to
> >>> the grocery store.
> >>>
> >>> I realized the other day that it has a birthday sometime this year. It's turning 50!
> >>>
> >>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>
> >> Arguable more useful than a 50 year old car, most years have a fair in the
> >> royal parks and I love the old bikes, which yes are a bit primitive but
> >> still very much a bike.
> >>
> >> And while off road is huge difference, on road older bikes particularly at
> >> cafe stop pace or utility very little in it, if anything really folks who
> >> have taken very old bikes on for example Tour de France original routes
> >> etc, have said it’s the clothing than the bike which is the big change.
> >
> > Try doing the big climbs and descents in wool jerseys and leather padded wool shorts.
> >
> Bizarrely I’ve done half of that in that some of my kit is merino wool!
>
> But that was the point of the comment that cycling clothes have
> dramatically improved over the years.

In dry weather Marino wool is OK. In wet weather it is horrible. Pro racers had an entire crew that would wash and thoroughly dry particularly the shorts. When wet and on fast descents wool shorts would billow out like parachutes and wool jerseys would increase their weight to unbelievable levels. Sports riders all had to treat crotch infections constantly. I still have large bottles of hydrogen peroxide that I used to swab down with immediately after a ride. There was no sitting down for a minute before removing your shorts.

On 4/16/2022 2:06 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Try doing the big climbs and descents in wool jerseys and leather padded wool shorts.
>>
>
> Bizarrely I’ve done half of that in that some of my kit is merino wool!
>
> But that was the point of the comment that cycling clothes have
> dramatically improved over the years.

I agree that for me, anyway, cycling shorts and tights are much better
than they were in the 1970s. Having said that, as Warm Showers hosts
we've had multiple bike tourists stay here who seemed to prefer wool
with real chamois. At least, that's what they were wearing.

Jerseys? I'm still most comfortable in wool, and I greatly prefer the
smell of wool over synthetics. IME experience it's hard to get the stink
out of synthetic jerseys.

Socks don't matter much to me for cycling, although I prefer wool socks
in general. I don't use 'clipless' pedals, and I prefer walkable lace up
cycling shoes that don't look like they were attacked by a
kindergartener with a new paint set.

Classic leather cycling gloves work best for me, and so do cycling caps.
I ride in my everyday glasses.

I love my ancient Gore-Tex jacket, but sometimes wish it weren't quite
so bulky.

Anybody still use arm warmers or leg warmers? I sometimes use the
former, but the latter haven't left the dresser drawer in many years.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/16/2022 2:06 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>
> The CX with its canti was just dreadful bordering on terrifying off road on
> uk gravel ie MTB lite stuff.

I'm curious about the details. I have cantis on many bikes, including my
mountain bike and our tandem. They've always worked fine. I understand
they can wear rims if used in lots of mud or lots of rain riding, but
I've avoided that problem.

What problems have you had?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 15:31:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 4/16/2022 2:06 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Try doing the big climbs and descents in wool jerseys and leather padded wool shorts.
>>>
>>
>> Bizarrely I’ve done half of that in that some of my kit is merino wool!
>>
>> But that was the point of the comment that cycling clothes have
>> dramatically improved over the years.
>
>I agree that for me, anyway, cycling shorts and tights are much better
>than they were in the 1970s. Having said that, as Warm Showers hosts
>we've had multiple bike tourists stay here who seemed to prefer wool
>with real chamois. At least, that's what they were wearing.
>
>Jerseys? I'm still most comfortable in wool, and I greatly prefer the
>smell of wool over synthetics. IME experience it's hard to get the stink
>out of synthetic jerseys.
>
>Socks don't matter much to me for cycling, although I prefer wool socks
>in general. I don't use 'clipless' pedals, and I prefer walkable lace up
>cycling shoes that don't look like they were attacked by a
>kindergartener with a new paint set.
>
>Classic leather cycling gloves work best for me, and so do cycling caps.
>I ride in my everyday glasses.
>
>I love my ancient Gore-Tex jacket, but sometimes wish it weren't quite
>so bulky.
>
>Anybody still use arm warmers or leg warmers? I sometimes use the
>former, but the latter haven't left the dresser drawer in many years.

Gee.. I used to ride in a pair of cut off Levi's and a tee shirt. You
know, when I was just riding down to the shop in the morning or home
for lunch. I guess, listening to Tommy, I must have been doing it all
wrong for those years.

Damn! And there I was, thinking that a bicycle could be used for
transportation :-(
--
Cheers,

John B.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 4/16/2022 2:06 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>
>> The CX with its canti was just dreadful bordering on terrifying off road on
>> uk gravel ie MTB lite stuff.
>
> I'm curious about the details. I have cantis on many bikes, including my
> mountain bike and our tandem. They've always worked fine. I understand
> they can wear rims if used in lots of mud or lots of rain riding, but
> I've avoided that problem.
>
> What problems have you had?
>
>
Lack of power, I used some very soft pads to help this, which they did but
wore out very quickly, even quicker than pads do off road generally.

I suspect that it’s problem was a) I was used to disks after many years of
MTBing plus b) by use of the bike, even that bike was arguably more capable
than the MTB I’d used in the 80/90’s and as such the brakes where the weak
point.

It’s the bike I replaced with a Gravel bike, worth noting that the cable
disk though better, I eventually gave up and replaced with hydraulic.

I’m realistically quite hard on brakes on Gravel bikes and similar as I
have the technical skill as a old MTBer to push them quite hard.

Roger Merriman

John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 15:31:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 4/16/2022 2:06 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Try doing the big climbs and descents in wool jerseys and leather padded wool shorts.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Bizarrely I’ve done half of that in that some of my kit is merino wool!
>>>
>>> But that was the point of the comment that cycling clothes have
>>> dramatically improved over the years.
>>
>> I agree that for me, anyway, cycling shorts and tights are much better
>> than they were in the 1970s. Having said that, as Warm Showers hosts
>> we've had multiple bike tourists stay here who seemed to prefer wool
>> with real chamois. At least, that's what they were wearing.
>>
>> Jerseys? I'm still most comfortable in wool, and I greatly prefer the
>> smell of wool over synthetics. IME experience it's hard to get the stink
>> out of synthetic jerseys.
>>
>> Socks don't matter much to me for cycling, although I prefer wool socks
>> in general. I don't use 'clipless' pedals, and I prefer walkable lace up
>> cycling shoes that don't look like they were attacked by a
>> kindergartener with a new paint set.
>>
>> Classic leather cycling gloves work best for me, and so do cycling caps.
>> I ride in my everyday glasses.
>>
>> I love my ancient Gore-Tex jacket, but sometimes wish it weren't quite
>> so bulky.
>>
>> Anybody still use arm warmers or leg warmers? I sometimes use the
>> former, but the latter haven't left the dresser drawer in many years.
>
> Gee.. I used to ride in a pair of cut off Levi's and a tee shirt. You
> know, when I was just riding down to the shop in the morning or home
> for lunch. I guess, listening to Tommy, I must have been doing it all
> wrong for those years.
>
> Damn! And there I was, thinking that a bicycle could be used for
> transportation :-(

Different usage, I certainly used to ride in normal clothes until my
commute distance reached a tipping point where it was just less
comfortable, and more hassle to try.

Roger Merriman.

On 4/16/2022 7:06 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 15:31:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 4/16/2022 2:06 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Try doing the big climbs and descents in wool jerseys and leather padded wool shorts.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Bizarrely I’ve done half of that in that some of my kit is merino wool!
>>>
>>> But that was the point of the comment that cycling clothes have
>>> dramatically improved over the years.
>>
>> I agree that for me, anyway, cycling shorts and tights are much better
>> than they were in the 1970s. Having said that, as Warm Showers hosts
>> we've had multiple bike tourists stay here who seemed to prefer wool
>> with real chamois. At least, that's what they were wearing.
>>
>> Jerseys? I'm still most comfortable in wool, and I greatly prefer the
>> smell of wool over synthetics. IME experience it's hard to get the stink
>> out of synthetic jerseys.
>>
>> Socks don't matter much to me for cycling, although I prefer wool socks
>> in general. I don't use 'clipless' pedals, and I prefer walkable lace up
>> cycling shoes that don't look like they were attacked by a
>> kindergartener with a new paint set.
>>
>> Classic leather cycling gloves work best for me, and so do cycling caps.
>> I ride in my everyday glasses.
>>
>> I love my ancient Gore-Tex jacket, but sometimes wish it weren't quite
>> so bulky.
>>
>> Anybody still use arm warmers or leg warmers? I sometimes use the
>> former, but the latter haven't left the dresser drawer in many years.
>
> Gee.. I used to ride in a pair of cut off Levi's and a tee shirt. You
> know, when I was just riding down to the shop in the morning or home
> for lunch. I guess, listening to Tommy, I must have been doing it all
> wrong for those years.
>
> Damn! And there I was, thinking that a bicycle could be used for
> transportation :-(

This being Usenet, I should have been more specific.

Yes, a lot of my riding (the short distance stuff) is done in everyday
clothes. For me, those normal clothes are usually good for up to ten
miles or so. And I always used normal clothing during the 14 mile round
trip to work and back.

For longer rides I usually put on special bike clothing. However, there
were many times riding in Europe on vacations that we rode distances
more than ten miles in fairly normal street clothes.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 11:06:07 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 6:26:31 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 2:57:26 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My commute bike isn’t as old only being 17 years old!
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have an actual "commute" bike because I'm retired. But I still use what was my
>>>>> commute bike for utility riding. I used it (as usual) on today's run to
>>>>> the grocery store.
>>>>>
>>>>> I realized the other day that it has a birthday sometime this year. It's turning 50!
>>>>>
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>
>>>> Arguable more useful than a 50 year old car, most years have a fair in the
>>>> royal parks and I love the old bikes, which yes are a bit primitive but
>>>> still very much a bike.
>>>>
>>>> And while off road is huge difference, on road older bikes particularly at
>>>> cafe stop pace or utility very little in it, if anything really folks who
>>>> have taken very old bikes on for example Tour de France original routes
>>>> etc, have said it’s the clothing than the bike which is the big change.
>>>
>>> Try doing the big climbs and descents in wool jerseys and leather padded wool shorts.
>>>
>> Bizarrely I’ve done half of that in that some of my kit is merino wool!
>>
>> But that was the point of the comment that cycling clothes have
>> dramatically improved over the years.
>
> In dry weather Marino wool is OK. In wet weather it is horrible. Pro
> racers had an entire crew that would wash and thoroughly dry particularly
> the shorts. When wet and on fast descents wool shorts would billow out
> like parachutes and wool jerseys would increase their weight to
> unbelievable levels. Sports riders all had to treat crotch infections
> constantly. I still have large bottles of hydrogen peroxide that I used
> to swab down with immediately after a ride. There was no sitting down for
> a minute before removing your shorts.
>

That’s certainly not my experience with modern Merino stuff, which is
generally base layers/winter jerseys, generally high end.

Roger Merriman.