One of the other things that bothered me on the century was that getting to the top of a climb there was all of that shifting to get down into a fast enough gear to catch up with the descent.

So one of the things I will get around to trying when I catch up with my bills is to use a ten speed cassette and get some of the large gears from an 11 speed so that I have a 10 speed 11-32. I then use an 11 speed Centaur rear derailleur and shift it with the late 10 speed Centaur or Athena levers This should give me an 11-13-15-17-19-23-25-27-29-32. Seems to me that this would be a pretty hard combination to beat as long as I don't need to machine new spacers to accomplish it.

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 9:16:34 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> One of the other things that bothered me on the century was that getting to the top of a climb there was all of that shifting to get down into a fast enough gear to catch up with the descent.
>
> So one of the things I will get around to trying when I catch up with my bills is to use a ten speed cassette and get some of the large gears from an 11 speed so that I have a 10 speed 11-32. I then use an 11 speed Centaur rear derailleur and shift it with the late 10 speed Centaur or Athena levers This should give me an 11-13-15-17-19-23-25-27-29-32. Seems to me that this would be a pretty hard combination to beat as long as I don't need to machine new spacers to accomplish it.

What a nonsense. As if one extra gear makes a difference for a 75 yo slow rider (your own words which is fine) getting in the right gear going into a descent. I use a 11-32T 11 sp cassette when climbing the big mountains with a Super Record 11 speed gruppo. When I am at the top it is krrr with the rear shifter, going into the big chainring and then krrr, krrr again with the rear shifter and I'm from the smallest gear into the biggest gear. Takes 2-3 seconds. Really.

Lou

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 3:44:07 p.m. UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 9:16:34 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > One of the other things that bothered me on the century was that getting to the top of a climb there was all of that shifting to get down into a fast enough gear to catch up with the descent.
> >
> > So one of the things I will get around to trying when I catch up with my bills is to use a ten speed cassette and get some of the large gears from an 11 speed so that I have a 10 speed 11-32. I then use an 11 speed Centaur rear derailleur and shift it with the late 10 speed Centaur or Athena levers This should give me an 11-13-15-17-19-23-25-27-29-32. Seems to me that this would be a pretty hard combination to beat as long as I don't need to machine new spacers to accomplish it.
> What a nonsense. As if one extra gear makes a difference for a 75 yo slow rider (your own words which is fine) getting in the right gear going into a descent. I use a 11-32T 11 sp cassette when climbing the big mountains with a Super Record 11 speed gruppo. When I am at the top it is krrr with the rear shifter, going into the big chainring and then krrr, krrr again with the rear shifter and I'm from the smallest gear into the biggest gear. Takes 2-3 seconds. Really.
>
> Lou

Not to mention that mixing cogs of different thicknesses will throw the indexed shifting off.

Cheers

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:44:07 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 9:16:34 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > One of the other things that bothered me on the century was that getting to the top of a climb there was all of that shifting to get down into a fast enough gear to catch up with the descent.
> >
> > So one of the things I will get around to trying when I catch up with my bills is to use a ten speed cassette and get some of the large gears from an 11 speed so that I have a 10 speed 11-32. I then use an 11 speed Centaur rear derailleur and shift it with the late 10 speed Centaur or Athena levers This should give me an 11-13-15-17-19-23-25-27-29-32. Seems to me that this would be a pretty hard combination to beat as long as I don't need to machine new spacers to accomplish it.
> What a nonsense. As if one extra gear makes a difference for a 75 yo slow rider (your own words which is fine) getting in the right gear going into a descent. I use a 11-32T 11 sp cassette when climbing the big mountains with a Super Record 11 speed gruppo. When I am at the top it is krrr with the rear shifter, going into the big chainring and then krrr, krrr again with the rear shifter and I'm from the smallest gear into the biggest gear. Takes 2-3 seconds. Really.

If I had bought a Record 11 speed in the first place I wouldn't complain. But now they're 12, with the levers starting at $550 and the rest of the components equally priced. I haven't even SEEN a Record derailleur with a mid length arm. which locks you into an 11-29. I was riding an 11-30 with my old Record. The slightest wear on the ratchets and the 10 speed Record would start missing shifts. Now maybe given enough time the new stuff will be that way as well. But so far it shifts smooth and quiet. And I might add - Shimano doesn't miss shifts like Campy does. So perhaps the new generation Campy won't miss shifts. Now with 11 speeds I'm stuck with Centaur or Athena (or Veloce which looks like crap. These parts are "Power shifters" and not "Ergo Shifters" like your Record.

Even the Campy electric only shifts up or down a single gear at a time. They advertise that as a plus. That is why I see EPS all over the place for cheap prices.

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 1:23:17 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 3:44:07 p.m. UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 9:16:34 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > One of the other things that bothered me on the century was that getting to the top of a climb there was all of that shifting to get down into a fast enough gear to catch up with the descent.
> > >
> > > So one of the things I will get around to trying when I catch up with my bills is to use a ten speed cassette and get some of the large gears from an 11 speed so that I have a 10 speed 11-32. I then use an 11 speed Centaur rear derailleur and shift it with the late 10 speed Centaur or Athena levers This should give me an 11-13-15-17-19-23-25-27-29-32. Seems to me that this would be a pretty hard combination to beat as long as I don't need to machine new spacers to accomplish it.
> > What a nonsense. As if one extra gear makes a difference for a 75 yo slow rider (your own words which is fine) getting in the right gear going into a descent. I use a 11-32T 11 sp cassette when climbing the big mountains with a Super Record 11 speed gruppo. When I am at the top it is krrr with the rear shifter, going into the big chainring and then krrr, krrr again with the rear shifter and I'm from the smallest gear into the biggest gear. Takes 2-3 seconds. Really.
> >
> > Lou
> Not to mention that mixing cogs of different thicknesses will throw the indexed shifting off.

No it doesn't. The 10 speed chain will move over enough on the previous cog to catch the lift. Shifting down (towards a faster gear) the cog teeth lift it the same as always.

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 2:30:55 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 1:23:17 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 3:44:07 p.m. UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 9:16:34 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > One of the other things that bothered me on the century was that getting to the top of a climb there was all of that shifting to get down into a fast enough gear to catch up with the descent.
> > > >
> > > > So one of the things I will get around to trying when I catch up with my bills is to use a ten speed cassette and get some of the large gears from an 11 speed so that I have a 10 speed 11-32. I then use an 11 speed Centaur rear derailleur and shift it with the late 10 speed Centaur or Athena levers This should give me an 11-13-15-17-19-23-25-27-29-32. Seems to me that this would be a pretty hard combination to beat as long as I don't need to machine new spacers to accomplish it.
> > > What a nonsense. As if one extra gear makes a difference for a 75 yo slow rider (your own words which is fine) getting in the right gear going into a descent. I use a 11-32T 11 sp cassette when climbing the big mountains with a Super Record 11 speed gruppo. When I am at the top it is krrr with the rear shifter, going into the big chainring and then krrr, krrr again with the rear shifter and I'm from the smallest gear into the biggest gear. Takes 2-3 seconds. Really.
> > >
> > > Lou
> > Not to mention that mixing cogs of different thicknesses will throw the indexed shifting off.
> No it doesn't. The 10 speed chain will move over enough on the previous cog to catch the lift. Shifting down (towards a faster gear) the cog teeth lift it the same as always.

By the way - the difference in cog width from 11 speed to 10 speed is only 9 thousandths of an inch. And the outside width of an 11 speed chain .002" less than a 10 speed.

On 4/25/2022 3:16 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> One of the other things that bothered me on the century was that getting to the top of a climb there was all of that shifting to get down into a fast enough gear to catch up with the descent.

Yet another problem I don't have, and have never heard anyone complain
about.

If it really bothers you, Tom, switch to friction shifting.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 1:27:50 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/25/2022 3:16 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > One of the other things that bothered me on the century was that getting to the top of a climb there was all of that shifting to get down into a fast enough gear to catch up with the descent.
> Yet another problem I don't have, and have never heard anyone complain
> about.
>
> If it really bothers you, Tom, switch to friction shifting.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Frank, don't you realize Tommy is a Tour de France wannabe aspirant looking to be discovered by the scouts. So every tenth of a second lost when shifting into high gear before the descent, decreases his chance of VICTORY!!!!!!! Of course that brings up a question. When I watch the Tour, the pros ride up the mountains at about 15+ mph. In a somewhat high gear. Not the low gears. So for a pro, or a wannabe pro like Tommy, it should only be about one or two clicks at most to get into the highest gear possible. And Tommy also mentions "catch up". ???? How is it possible Tommy is not in the lead at the top of the climb? Tommy should not be catching up on the descent. He should be extending his lead.

I am having a hard time understanding Tommy's problems.