On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:35:56 -0700 (PDT), James Carrington
<jhcjrx@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 1:07:25 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> The problem was that epoxy is
>> a good insulator and the various layers did not make a good (if any)
>> electrical connection between the sheets. I decided that this was not
>> going to be easy and that I didn't have the time or facilities to
>> continue.

>The MDPI paper seems to imply that the product under test needs to have some intentional design to allow for electrical testing - IOW, inherent variations in standard manufacturing techniques wouldn't reveal enough statistical consistency to use as a QC metric.

Correct. I mentioned that I was having problems getting a reliable
electrical connection to the CF sheets. Although I haven't tried it,
I suspect electroplating some metal to the ends of the CF sheets might
work. Nickel plating seems to favored although silver would be
better. Gold and titanium are probably to expensive:
<https://corrosion-doctors.org/Definitions/galvanic-series.htm>
<https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=242e0ca614e6fb63f&q=plating+carbon+fiber>
I have some electroless silver, copper and nickel, but CF sheets or
tubes. If I get ambitious, I might do some testing. If I'm lucky, it
might be something as simple as dipping the ends of the frame tubes
into electroless copper. (Yet another project)

The "inherent variations" in manufacturing will probably be chronic.
However, I don't consider this a problem. My grand plan was to
measure the resistance of the finished frame and record the numbers
which will surely involve some material and construction variations.
The owner can later measure the resistance with an ohmmeter,
compensate for temperature, and note any changes in resistance. It's
the amount of change that indicates a potential problem. Extra credit
for graphing the changes over the months or years, so that an abrupt
change in resistance will be obvious and easily noticed.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 4/24/2022 12:22 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 8:01:38 AM UTC-7, jhc...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 3:41:28 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 4/22/2022 1:35 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>
>>>> They are now replacing the old and decrepit B52 engines with commercial grade engines used on commercial jetliners. This leads to the idea that there may be a supersonic B52 in the not too distant future. We HAVE these planes now and it would require nothing more than reinforcing whereas a B2 costs now in the billions per.
>>> <sigh> No, Tom, we're not going to have supersonic B-52s. There's a lot
>>> more to supersonic flight than just pushing harder. The aerodynamics are
>>> very, very different.
>>>
>>> Admittedly, the class I took covering supersonic aerodynamics was long,
>>> long ago. When did you take a course on that subject?
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> I went to high school with a kid that insisted NASCAR cars were identical to showroom models,with the exception that the tires were wider. Same concept.
>
> That is a very poor model. The area of Mach 0,8 and 1.2 is considered "transonic" and to cross the sound barrier in that regime only requires a strong enough airframe and enough power.

Meanwhile, here in the _real_ universe, there are no supersonic B-52s
despite many decades of super-powerful engine candidates.

As is often the case, Tom's vast and unparalleled knowledge seems to be
in complete contrast with the views of experts in the relevant field.

Tom, get your robe and sandals and picket NASA or Boeing or the
Pentagon. Your sign should read "We want supersonic B-52s NOW!"

See if they'll listen.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 09:08:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>Corrosion through electrostatic differential isn't the same thing.

Gibberish. The term "static" in "electrostatic" means that the
electrical charge is not moving. Galvanic corrosion is the movement
of electrons or ions through a conductive solution. You can't have it
both ways.

>This occurs on microvolt levels over time.

Galvanic potential is measured in volts or tenths of a volt, not
microvolts. Look at the numbers on any galvanic series table:
<https://www.corrosionpedia.com/images/uploads/galvanic%20series%20noble%20metals.jpg>
Note the numbers:
Graphite (same as carbon) +0.25 volts
Titanium -0.15 volts
300 series stainless -0.10 volts
That means if you put your titanium frame bicycle into sea water, and
you happen to be using stainless steel fasteners, you will see a
potential difference of:
+0.25 - -0.10 = 0.35 volts
The larger the voltage, the more metal gets corroded away from the
anode. Think of your CF frame as half of a carbon zinc battery.

Time is natures way of keeping everything from happening at once. I
don't know how a changing galvanic voltage over time has anything to
do with this, but you can explain it for those who might also be
wondering.

>Jeff, who doesn't himself ride bikes,

That's true. I only ride one bicycle at a time. I also don't ride
myself because that's physically impossible.

For what it's worth, I have an appointment with my body mechanic in
mid-May. I will ask him again about whether it's safe for me to ride.
>want to tell us all about the things that actual riders have seen and
deny them.

With the massive amounts of riding you've been doing, and the huge
number of technical mistakes you make pontificating in RBT, it would
seem that bicycle riding causes an increase in errors. If you reduce
your riding to a safer level, you might suffer less from hypoxia or
whatever is causing your reduced mental capacity. I suggest you try
using the time you gain to research your claims prior to posting.

I'm seeing comments that indicate that you are reading and responding
to my postings. You promised not to do that. It would seem that your
non-existent Google Groups filter program has failed.
12/25/2021
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ojfW-TVB22M/m/KkiM5ESpDQAJ>
"I simply now will no longer respond to the haters of the group"

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 4/24/2022 2:34 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 09:08:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Corrosion through electrostatic differential isn't the same thing.
>
> Gibberish. The term "static" in "electrostatic" means that the
> electrical charge is not moving. Galvanic corrosion is the movement
> of electrons or ions through a conductive solution. You can't have it
> both ways.
>
>> This occurs on microvolt levels over time.
>
> Galvanic potential is measured in volts or tenths of a volt, not
> microvolts. Look at the numbers on any galvanic series table:
> <https://www.corrosionpedia.com/images/uploads/galvanic%20series%20noble%20metals.jpg>
> Note the numbers:
> Graphite (same as carbon) +0.25 volts
> Titanium -0.15 volts
> 300 series stainless -0.10 volts
> That means if you put your titanium frame bicycle into sea water, and
> you happen to be using stainless steel fasteners, you will see a
> potential difference of:
> +0.25 - -0.10 = 0.35 volts
> The larger the voltage, the more metal gets corroded away from the
> anode. Think of your CF frame as half of a carbon zinc battery.
>
> Time is natures way of keeping everything from happening at once. I
> don't know how a changing galvanic voltage over time has anything to
> do with this, but you can explain it for those who might also be
> wondering.
>
>> Jeff, who doesn't himself ride bikes,
>
> That's true. I only ride one bicycle at a time. I also don't ride
> myself because that's physically impossible.
>
> For what it's worth, I have an appointment with my body mechanic in
> mid-May. I will ask him again about whether it's safe for me to ride.
>> want to tell us all about the things that actual riders have seen and
> deny them.
>
> With the massive amounts of riding you've been doing, and the huge
> number of technical mistakes you make pontificating in RBT, it would
> seem that bicycle riding causes an increase in errors. If you reduce
> your riding to a safer level, you might suffer less from hypoxia or
> whatever is causing your reduced mental capacity. I suggest you try
> using the time you gain to research your claims prior to posting.
>
> I'm seeing comments that indicate that you are reading and responding
> to my postings. You promised not to do that. It would seem that your
> non-existent Google Groups filter program has failed.
> 12/25/2021
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ojfW-TVB22M/m/KkiM5ESpDQAJ>
> "I simply now will no longer respond to the haters of the group"

I think the very first thing Tom should work on is to develop SOME
capacity for embarrassment.

Any normal human would be hugely embarrassed by the mountain of mistakes
he's posted and continues to post. That would cause any normal human to
stop before clicking "Send" and try to find real, accurate information
with proper citations from reputable sources.

Tom doesn't do that. He somehow lacks embarrassment. So when obviously
wrong, he insults, lies and tries to change the subject. He's a sad case.

Tom, get embarrassed. It would be good for you. And it would help the
quality of discussion here.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:24:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 4/24/2022 2:34 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 09:08:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Corrosion through electrostatic differential isn't the same thing.
>>
>> Gibberish. The term "static" in "electrostatic" means that the
>> electrical charge is not moving. Galvanic corrosion is the movement
>> of electrons or ions through a conductive solution. You can't have it
>> both ways.
>>
>>> This occurs on microvolt levels over time.
>>
>> Galvanic potential is measured in volts or tenths of a volt, not
>> microvolts. Look at the numbers on any galvanic series table:
>> <https://www.corrosionpedia.com/images/uploads/galvanic%20series%20noble%20metals.jpg>
>> Note the numbers:
>> Graphite (same as carbon) +0.25 volts
>> Titanium -0.15 volts
>> 300 series stainless -0.10 volts
>> That means if you put your titanium frame bicycle into sea water, and
>> you happen to be using stainless steel fasteners, you will see a
>> potential difference of:
>> +0.25 - -0.10 = 0.35 volts
>> The larger the voltage, the more metal gets corroded away from the
>> anode. Think of your CF frame as half of a carbon zinc battery.
>>
>> Time is natures way of keeping everything from happening at once. I
>> don't know how a changing galvanic voltage over time has anything to
>> do with this, but you can explain it for those who might also be
>> wondering.
>>
>>> Jeff, who doesn't himself ride bikes,
>>
>> That's true. I only ride one bicycle at a time. I also don't ride
>> myself because that's physically impossible.
>>
>> For what it's worth, I have an appointment with my body mechanic in
>> mid-May. I will ask him again about whether it's safe for me to ride.
>>> want to tell us all about the things that actual riders have seen and
>> deny them.
>>
>> With the massive amounts of riding you've been doing, and the huge
>> number of technical mistakes you make pontificating in RBT, it would
>> seem that bicycle riding causes an increase in errors. If you reduce
>> your riding to a safer level, you might suffer less from hypoxia or
>> whatever is causing your reduced mental capacity. I suggest you try
>> using the time you gain to research your claims prior to posting.
>>
>> I'm seeing comments that indicate that you are reading and responding
>> to my postings. You promised not to do that. It would seem that your
>> non-existent Google Groups filter program has failed.
>> 12/25/2021
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ojfW-TVB22M/m/KkiM5ESpDQAJ>
>> "I simply now will no longer respond to the haters of the group"
>
>I think the very first thing Tom should work on is to develop SOME
>capacity for embarrassment.
>
>Any normal human would be hugely embarrassed by the mountain of mistakes
>he's posted and continues to post. That would cause any normal human to
>stop before clicking "Send" and try to find real, accurate information
>with proper citations from reputable sources.
>
>Tom doesn't do that. He somehow lacks embarrassment. So when obviously
>wrong, he insults, lies and tries to change the subject. He's a sad case.
>
>Tom, get embarrassed. It would be good for you. And it would help the
>quality of discussion here.

But Frank, you simply do not understand.

You see, Tommy has no need to display embarrassment, why should he
when is always right, and so obviously correct that it is surprising
that anyone would argue. You, I and the others of the "Unholy Quintet"
are simply trying to "unseat the Master", so to speak.

I mean, your assertion that the earth is round, for example. Utter
foolishness! Why, if the earth was a really a big ball, rather then
flat, then all those Australians and others on the bottom of the ball
would fall off. See there how ignorant you are?

Granted, some impolite people may refer to Tommy as being "demented",
or even, in my Granny's term, "Batty as a Bedbug", but that is simply
jealousy displayed by inferior beings toward anyone of such vastly
superior knowledge.

---
Dementia - mental deterioration of organic or functional origin
Insanity - relatively permanent disorder of the mind
--
Cheers,

John B.