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tech / rec.bicycles.tech / Re: Heroin and bicycles

SubjectAuthor
* Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
 +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesFrank Krygowski
 |`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
 | `* Re: Heroin and bicyclessms
 |  `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
 |   `- Re: Heroin and bicyclessms
 `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  |`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | |`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | | `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | |  `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | |   `- Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
  | |+- Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
  | |+- Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
  | |`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesFrank Krygowski
  | | +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |+- Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |+* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
  | | ||+* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesFrank Krygowski
  | | ||| `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||  `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesFrank Krygowski
  | | |||   `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||    `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
  | | |||     `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||      `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
  | | |||       `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
  | | |||        +- Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
  | | |||        +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | | |||        |`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
  | | |||        | +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesFrank Krygowski
  | | |||        | |`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||        | | +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | | |||        | | |`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||        | | | +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | | |||        | | | |+* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||        | | | ||`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | | |||        | | | || `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||        | | | ||  `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | | |||        | | | ||   `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||        | | | ||    `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | | |||        | | | ||     +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||        | | | ||     |`- Re: Heroin and bicyclesJeff Liebermann
  | | |||        | | | ||     `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
  | | |||        | | | ||      `- Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
  | | |||        | | | |`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
  | | |||        | | | | `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
  | | |||        | | | |  +- Re: Heroin and bicyclesFrank Krygowski
  | | |||        | | | |  `- Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||        | | | `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
  | | |||        | | |  +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||        | | |  |`- Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | | |||        | | |  `- Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | | |||        | | `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
  | | |||        | |  +- Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
  | | |||        | |  +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesFrank Krygowski
  | | |||        | |  |`- Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | | |||        | |  +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||        | |  |`- Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||        | |  `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | | |||        | |   +- Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | |||        | |   `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
  | | |||        | |    +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
  | | |||        | |    |`- Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | | |||        | |    `- Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
  | | |||        | `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
  | | |||        |  `- Re: Heroin and bicyclesFrank Krygowski
  | | |||        `- Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | ||`- Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
  | | |`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
  | | | `- Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
  | | `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
  | |  `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
  | |   `- Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
  | `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesFrank Krygowski
  |  `- Re: Heroin and bicyclesFrank Krygowski
  `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesFrank Krygowski
   +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
   |`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
   | +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesRolf Mantel
   | |+* Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
   | ||`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesRolf Mantel
   | || `- Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
   | |`* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
   | | +- Re: Heroin and bicyclesRolf Mantel
   | | +* Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
   | | |`- Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com
   | | +- Re: Heroin and bicyclesFrank Krygowski
   | | `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
   | |  `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
   | |   `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
   | |    `- Re: Heroin and bicyclesFrank Krygowski
   | `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
   |  `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesAMuzi
   |   +- Re: Heroin and bicyclesJohn B.
   |   `- Re: Heroin and bicyclesTom Kunich
   `* Re: Heroin and bicyclesrussellseaton1@yahoo.com

Pages:12345
Re: Heroin and bicycles

<t466j0$est$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=54964&group=rec.bicycles.tech#54964

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From: am...@yellowjersey.org (AMuzi)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Heroin and bicycles
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 08:09:50 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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 by: AMuzi - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 13:09 UTC

On 4/24/2022 11:05 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:24:37 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> Bias is equally if not more effective by _not_ reporting
>> inconvenient events.
>>
>> https://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2022/03/poll-media-suppression-of-hunter-biden-laptop-story-made-joe-biden-president/
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> Andy, concerning the link you provided. I am somewhat skeptical of the articles on that website. I could not find any official description or condemnation of that website, but it seems to be leaning to one side. So not too objective. And the exact link you provided has the following quote in it:
> "As now pointed out by the Post Millenial, polling showed that almost 20% of Biden voters, or nearly 1 in 5, would not have voted for Joe Biden had they known about the corruption his son, Hunter Biden, was involved in and Joe’s possible role in it"
>
> Oddly, they misspelled "Millenial" in their written article. I do not have much confidence in stories with obvious misspellings. Its very rare amongst professional organizations to not proofread and correct obvious errors that make you look foolish. But their misspelling is not my main concern. It is the poll by this Post Millennial. Here is a Wikipedia page for this Post Millennial.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Post_Millennial
> "The Post Millennial is a conservative Canadian online news magazine started in 2017. It publishes national and local news and has a large amount of opinion content. It has been criticized for publishing false stories and COVID-19 disinformation, as well as for its opaque funding and political connections."
> "The Post Millennial is backed by private investors, but their identities have not been made public. Other funding sources remain unclear, with proceeds from advertising or subscriptions undefined."
>
> How much credibility do you place in a poll conducted by such a dubious organization as The Post Millennial? Do you also believe polls conducted in Russia saying Putin is beloved by 99% of the people polled? And the Ukraine invasion war is just and proper and the right thing to do for Mother Russia? The Russian polls are very positive about this. Should we let the KKK conduct a poll amongst the KKK on whether blacks should have rights? And use the results of the poll to make policy?
>
> Andy, as I have told Tommy boy many times, your source for your support is critical. You cannot use unbelievable sources and information for support. It undermines your argument.
>

As frequently occurs, you contest the reporter but not the
story.

This is all widely known, and reported, just not by NYT
until two years later.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12952604/source-claims-joe-biden-is-big-guy-in-hunter-emails-leak/

https://www.newsweek.com/tony-bobulinskis-emails-texts-corroborate-accounts-hunter-biden-china-deals-wsj-editorial-page-1541536

https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/20/why-big-media-will-never-report-on-hunter-bidens-emails/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Re: Heroin and bicycles

<5eee5cc9-f443-4d66-8a47-9ab40e85b035n@googlegroups.com>

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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 07:36:28 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Heroin and bicycles
From: cyclin...@gmail.com (Tom Kunich)
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 by: Tom Kunich - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 14:36 UTC

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 6:09:56 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/24/2022 11:05 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:24:37 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >> Bias is equally if not more effective by _not_ reporting
> >> inconvenient events.
> >>
> >> https://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2022/03/poll-media-suppression-of-hunter-biden-laptop-story-made-joe-biden-president/
> >> --
> >> Andrew Muzi
> >> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >
> > Andy, concerning the link you provided. I am somewhat skeptical of the articles on that website. I could not find any official description or condemnation of that website, but it seems to be leaning to one side. So not too objective. And the exact link you provided has the following quote in it:
> > "As now pointed out by the Post Millenial, polling showed that almost 20% of Biden voters, or nearly 1 in 5, would not have voted for Joe Biden had they known about the corruption his son, Hunter Biden, was involved in and Joe’s possible role in it"
> >
> > Oddly, they misspelled "Millenial" in their written article. I do not have much confidence in stories with obvious misspellings. Its very rare amongst professional organizations to not proofread and correct obvious errors that make you look foolish. But their misspelling is not my main concern. It is the poll by this Post Millennial. Here is a Wikipedia page for this Post Millennial.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Post_Millennial
> > "The Post Millennial is a conservative Canadian online news magazine started in 2017. It publishes national and local news and has a large amount of opinion content. It has been criticized for publishing false stories and COVID-19 disinformation, as well as for its opaque funding and political connections."
> > "The Post Millennial is backed by private investors, but their identities have not been made public. Other funding sources remain unclear, with proceeds from advertising or subscriptions undefined."
> >
> > How much credibility do you place in a poll conducted by such a dubious organization as The Post Millennial? Do you also believe polls conducted in Russia saying Putin is beloved by 99% of the people polled? And the Ukraine invasion war is just and proper and the right thing to do for Mother Russia? The Russian polls are very positive about this. Should we let the KKK conduct a poll amongst the KKK on whether blacks should have rights? And use the results of the poll to make policy?
> >
> > Andy, as I have told Tommy boy many times, your source for your support is critical. You cannot use unbelievable sources and information for support. It undermines your argument.
> >
>
> As frequently occurs, you contest the reporter but not the
> story.
>
> This is all widely known, and reported, just not by NYT
> until two years later.
>
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12952604/source-claims-joe-biden-is-big-guy-in-hunter-emails-leak/
>
> https://www.newsweek.com/tony-bobulinskis-emails-texts-corroborate-accounts-hunter-biden-china-deals-wsj-editorial-page-1541536
>
> https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/20/why-big-media-will-never-report-on-hunter-bidens-emails/

Well, when you have cowards like Russell posting no sources are believable and the only thing he will believe is the Democrat narrative. He is simply a lost cause which is why I have blocked him. People who cannot face facts simply cannot be shown anything since they lack the ability to even understand truth when it is shoved directly into their faces.

Re: Heroin and bicycles

<cf774ad8-3545-432d-a3cf-a80ce674390bn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Heroin and bicycles
From: ritzanna...@gmail.com (russellseaton1@yahoo.com)
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 by: russellseaton1@yahoo - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 04:11 UTC

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:17:39 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 20:36:37 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 4:23:31 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 01:12:20 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 12:02:20 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 19:48:53 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 7:34:09 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:48:39 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> >> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 5:58:21 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 10:59:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >On 4/22/2022 11:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> On 4/22/2022 5:51 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 9:55:48 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >>>> On 4/22/2022 7:44 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >>>>> On 4/21/2022 9:45 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 21:10:35 -0500, AMuzi
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 7:05 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:09:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> On 4/20/2022 6:59 PM, John B. wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> One point that never seems to be addressed is "why?".
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> I've been stopped by police while in an automobile and
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> I didn't attack
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> the policeman or try to run away and I've known quite
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> a number of
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> others who have been stopped by the Cops and didn't
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> attack the officer
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> or try to run away.
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> But in nearly all cases of a police killing it seems,
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> at least from
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> what one "reads in the Newspaper" the victim did just
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> that, Either
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> tried to run away or attacked the Officer. Why?
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Why?
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> I'll repeat a tale I've told before. Our suburban
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> village has a
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> reputation as a speed trap - IOW, that they actually
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> enforce the
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> state-mandated 25 mph zones in the village center.
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> That's more than fine
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> by me. (Actually, they don't ticket for 29 mph, but 30
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> or more may get
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> you stopped.)
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> The newspaper's "Police Report" often lists guys
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> arrested here for
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> controlled substances, outstanding warrants, etc. after
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> being stopped
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> here for speeding, running a red light, no lights, etc.
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> So I asked a cop friend "If a guy with an outstanding
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> warrant has drugs
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> in his car, why wouldn't he drive super carefully?"
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> His answer: "They're not Einsteins, Frank."
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> That's why.
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> So rather then "headlines" saying "Cop Shoots Man" it
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> should read,
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> "Known Felon Shot While Attempting to Flee Arrest".
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> And rather then "Black Lives Matter" the battle cry
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> should be "Black
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Criminals Matter!"
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> +1
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/04/21/eric-adams-is-right-blm-costs-black-lives/
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> If one looks at the facts, rather then the "Lurid" News
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> then one quite
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> often develops a substantially different viewpoint then
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> what seems to
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> be popular.
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>> The new mayor deserves some credit for pointing out that
> >> >> >> >> >>>>> annoying truth.
> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>> Apologies for replying to my own reply but the link above
> >> >> >> >> >>>> regards the mayor's comments yesterday 21 April. Update:
> >> >> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>> https://nypost.com/2022/04/21/blms-hawk-newsome-blames-mayor-eric-adams-for-nyc-war-zone/
> >> >> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>> Some pathetic souls are so invested in screaming about
> >> >> >> >> >>>> 'racism' in order to gin up discord, even where it's
> >> >> >> >> >>>> ridiculously absent, just cannot drop that weapon.
> >> >> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>> side note-
> >> >> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >> >> >>>> Waiting for the pearl-clutching 'fact check' organizations
> >> >> >> >> >>>> to cover Mr Newsome's description of Mayor Adams as 'n---r'
> >> >> >> >> >>>> and 'a white man in blackface, and a very conservative white
> >> >> >> >> >>>> man at that'.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Post
> >> >> >> >> >>> "The New York Post (NY Post) is a conservative daily tabloid newspaper
> >> >> >> >> >>> published in New York City. The Post also operates NYPost..com, the
> >> >> >> >> >>> celebrity gossip site PageSix.com, and the entertainment site
> >> >> >> >> >>> Decider.com.
> >> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >> >>> It was established in 1801 by Federalist and Founding Father Alexander
> >> >> >> >> >>> Hamilton, and became a respected broadsheet in the 19th century under
> >> >> >> >> >>> the name New York Evening Post.[9] Its most famous 19th-century editor
> >> >> >> >> >>> was William Cullen Bryant. In the mid-20th century, the paper was
> >> >> >> >> >>> owned by Dorothy Schiff, a devoted liberal, who developed its tabloid
> >> >> >> >> >>> format. In 1976, Rupert Murdoch bought the Post for US$30..5 million.
> >> >> >> >> >>> Since 1993, the Post has been owned by Murdoch's News Corp. Its
> >> >> >> >> >>> distribution ranked 4th in the US in 2019."
> >> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >> >>> Andy, if you are relying on the New York Post for your source, you
> >> >> >> >> >>> need some help. Tommy boy uses similar sources for his support. If
> >> >> >> >> >>> you click on the Wikipedia link for the New York Post, you will be
> >> >> >> >> >>> taken to a website that shows one of the Post's papers. It says
> >> >> >> >> >>> "Bezos Exposes Pecker". With a picture of Jeff Bezos and his
> >> >> >> >> >>> girlfriend or wife. Fully clothed of course. Tell us Andy, does the
> >> >> >> >> >>> Wisconsin State Journal run headlines like that on its front page?
> >> >> >> >> >>> Your main state newspaper. The NY Post is very comparable to Fox News
> >> >> >> >> >>> or Newsmax or One America News or similar places.
> >> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >> >>> Now, I am not saying the black mayor of New York City, Eric Adams, and
> >> >> >> >> >>> the black BLM founder/participant, Hawk Newsome, did not have a
> >> >> >> >> >>> disagreement and did not call each other names. I am sure they did
> >> >> >> >> >>> have a divergence. I am sure the founders and participants of the KKK
> >> >> >> >> >>> disagreed on many matters too. But they still held to their core
> >> >> >> >> >>> principles.
> >> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> I saw Mr Newsome's interview in his own words (except the bleep) it on
> >> >> >> >> >> the radio early on WOR and later on WABC.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Post has convenient non-paywall web links.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> You're welcome in that your only criticism is that you dislike the Post.
> >> >> >> >> >> I assume you share with me utter contempt for Mr Newsome and BLM generally.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >Let me agree with Mr. Muzi on part of this. I suppose most news outlets
> >> >> >> >> >have some editorial slant one way or other. (I've seen articles rating
> >> >> >> >> >that slant for dozens of news sources - although I'm sure those offended
> >> >> >> >> >by the ratings will call "bias!") And I do think the Post is not
> >> >> >> >> >particularly respectable as a source.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >However, not everything in the Post is wrong. Similarly, if a biased and
> >> >> >> >> >deluded maniac says "The sun is rising!" the sun may still be rising.
> >> >> >> >> But what is "Bias"? Is it, in some manner, a definitive measure of
> >> >> >> >> right and wrong? Or a matter of what a large number of people consider
> >> >> >> >> right and wrong, at this moment in time?
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Slavery, for example. A perfectly legal and accepted practice from
> >> >> >> >> earliest human history until `about` the 1800's, and now regarded with
> >> >> >> >> horror.
> >> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> John B.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Bias would be a leaning, slant, towards one side of a philosophy. Assuming there are only two sides to every idea.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >You mention slavery. It has been practiced and legal for thousands of years. But not everyone practiced it. Not everyone accepted it. There was always a large number of people against it. Same with drug use. Marijuana and hashish in particular. Commonly used by many up until about 100 years ago. Legal usage of drugs. And some of these illegal drugs are now being made legal again. Prostitution and whore houses. Very legal in most places around the world until somewhat recently. But still legal in Nevada and Amsterdam. Imagine that. Drugs and prostitutes, legal. Horror.
> >> >> >> "But not everyone practiced it. Not everyone accepted it"??
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Really? During what time period? The Roman Empire is pretty well
> >> >> >> documented and slavery was certainly accepted then, in fact part of
> >> >> >> the Legion's "pay", was in dividing the money gotten from selling
> >> >> >> enslaved enemy. It was written that when Julius Caesar conquered Gaul
> >> >> >> the numbers of slaves sold by the conquering Romans depressed the
> >> >> >> Mediterranean slave markets for several years.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I think, if you look into it, that slavery became less acceptable as
> >> >> >> an economy became less dependent on agriculture. The U.S. Civil War
> >> >> >> was fought between the largely agricultural South and the rapidly
> >> >> >> becoming industrialized North.
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> John B.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Yes the changing economy of the world changed slavery. According to Google, 1803 Denmark Norway stopped trading in slaves. Not sure if that means they outlawed it in Denmark Norway or not. Maybe that was just the start to abolish it and the current slaves could still be kept as slaves. 1834 Britain abolished slavery in all its dominion. 1847 France abolished slavery in all its colonies. I'm guessing also in France proper too. Even the USA banned the importation of slaves beginning in 1808. Current and newly bred slaves were not impacted of course. But even by 1808, the slave promoters in the USA knew slavery was not popular.
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >As for the Civil War. Did any of the enlisted Confederates own slaves? I'd guess no. The Confederate politicians and officers owned slaves. But did any of the Confederate enlisted soldiers own slaves?
> >> >> It is likely that not every Confederate Soldier was a slave owner and
> >> >> from what I read, it is likely that slavery wasn't a major factor in
> >> >> some defending the South. General R.E. Lee, was a graduate of the U..S.
> >> >> Military Academy and served in the U.S. Army for something like 32
> >> >> years but when his home state Virginia seceded from the U.S. he
> >> >> elected to serve his state.
> >> >
> >> >I have heard that too. And he also had slaves on his Arlington estate..
> >> >
> >> Well, if memory serves George Washington, sometimes refereed to as,
> >> "The father of his country" had slaves... something like 150 of them
> >> :-)
> >
> >Yes. I am aware of that fact. Thomas Jefferson also had slaves. But that is more well known since he purportedly had sex and or babies with at least one of his slaves. Kind of funny, the left half of Mt. Rushmore were slave owners. The one on the far right freed the slaves. And the other one killed African big game animals.
>
> Which is essentially what I said, way back in the beginning" That for
> much of human history slavery was a perfectly logical and legal
> institution and in about the 1800's it began to become horrifying.
> >
> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> I think, the theory of "States Rights" was probably a far stronger
> >> >> force and had a far greater following in the 1800's then it does
> >> >> today.
> >> >>
> >> >> And, again from what I read, slavery, although much mentioned today,
> >> >> was probably not the underlying factor in the U.S. Civil War, although
> >> >> it is popular to say so today. The major factor seems to have been who
> >> >> would control the U.S. Government, the southern states or the northern
> >> >> states.
> >> >
> >> >OK. But the new party coming into control of the government was specifically going to ban slavery. And the only power the Confederate states had in the Congress was due to them having the 3/5ths of a person for slaves rule in place. A vast majority of the voting men in the USA lived in the northern states. The south was not too populated. Seems to me slavery was a pretty integral part of why the Civil War started.
> >> The number of voters in the North and the South had nothing to do with
> >> it. It was the members of the Congress that counted and the
> >> Republicans (i.e. Northern States) gained control of the Congress as
> >> of March 1861.
> >
> >The number of voters had nothing to do with it? You are aware the Confederate states got extra members of Congress because they could count their slaves as 3/5th of a person for congressional districting. Even back then they had a set number of House seats in total. And they were allocated based on the census every ten years. And the Confederate states got more representatives because their non voting slaves were counted as 3/5ths of a person for population, redistricting purposes. The South got extra members of the House because they had non voting slaves. The North gained control of Congress in 1861. And their platform, goal, was to eliminate slavery.
> >
> >So you still don't think slavery had anything to do with the Civil War starting? John, I do not mean to insult or demean you, but this logic is very reminiscent of Tommy logic.
>
>
> Of course it had something to do with the Civil war. If you freed the
> slaves the south would go broke, which in turn meant that the southern
> states had no choice other then to oppose the idea. But had the south
> been able to get a majority in the U.S.
> https://www.vaguelyinteresting.co.uk/why-was-kyoto-removed-as-the-prime-target-for-the-a-bomb/ature
> then they could have prevented. Thus the hullabaloo over Kansas.
>
>
>
> >>
> >> Whereupon the Southern States elected to withdraw from the Nation,
> >> much as what happened in 1776, which in turn caused the South to
> >> effectively declare war in April.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> It might be noted that prior to the Civil War cotton exports from the
> >> >> southern states amounted to about 1/2 the total value of all U.S.
> >> >> exports and had the South seceded it's economy would have been
> >> >> stronger then the North's.
> >> >
> >> >OK. Wikipedia says the Confederate states amounted to the 4th largest GDP in the world at the start of the Civil War. However since the North controlled the Navy, I am not sure how the Confederate would be able to export its cotton for profit. Its kind of like Russia today. It has many billions in foreign currency and assets stashed all over the world. But the USA and EU have prevented it from getting to its reserves. So its worthless to them.
> >> I should have said "successfully seceded".
> >
> >I'm not sure how they ever would have been successful. Even with a land victory, or cessation of fighting within the states, or treaty. The North government controlled the Navy and could have easily continued the stoppage of the South's trade to Europe. I do not think there could have ever been a successful secession. It was a yes or no decision. No maybe in between possible. Very similar to Japan in WW2. The USA defeated the Japanese Navy at sea in 1944 and early 1945. But the USA did not have land control yet. So kept on bombing Japan mainland. Similar to the Civil War. Just because the land army lost or stopped fighting with a treaty, no reason the navy could not keep fighting.
>
> Why ever not? After all the American Colonies were successful and
> England was the most powerful nation with the largest navy in the
> world.


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Subject: Re: Heroin and bicycles
From: ritzanna...@gmail.com (russellseaton1@yahoo.com)
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 by: russellseaton1@yahoo - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 04:24 UTC

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 8:09:56 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/24/2022 11:05 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:24:37 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >> Bias is equally if not more effective by _not_ reporting
> >> inconvenient events.
> >>
> >> https://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2022/03/poll-media-suppression-of-hunter-biden-laptop-story-made-joe-biden-president/
> >> --
> >> Andrew Muzi
> >> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >
> > Andy, concerning the link you provided. I am somewhat skeptical of the articles on that website. I could not find any official description or condemnation of that website, but it seems to be leaning to one side. So not too objective. And the exact link you provided has the following quote in it:
> > "As now pointed out by the Post Millenial, polling showed that almost 20% of Biden voters, or nearly 1 in 5, would not have voted for Joe Biden had they known about the corruption his son, Hunter Biden, was involved in and Joe’s possible role in it"
> >
> > Oddly, they misspelled "Millenial" in their written article. I do not have much confidence in stories with obvious misspellings. Its very rare amongst professional organizations to not proofread and correct obvious errors that make you look foolish. But their misspelling is not my main concern. It is the poll by this Post Millennial. Here is a Wikipedia page for this Post Millennial.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Post_Millennial
> > "The Post Millennial is a conservative Canadian online news magazine started in 2017. It publishes national and local news and has a large amount of opinion content. It has been criticized for publishing false stories and COVID-19 disinformation, as well as for its opaque funding and political connections."
> > "The Post Millennial is backed by private investors, but their identities have not been made public. Other funding sources remain unclear, with proceeds from advertising or subscriptions undefined."
> >
> > How much credibility do you place in a poll conducted by such a dubious organization as The Post Millennial? Do you also believe polls conducted in Russia saying Putin is beloved by 99% of the people polled? And the Ukraine invasion war is just and proper and the right thing to do for Mother Russia? The Russian polls are very positive about this. Should we let the KKK conduct a poll amongst the KKK on whether blacks should have rights? And use the results of the poll to make policy?
> >
> > Andy, as I have told Tommy boy many times, your source for your support is critical. You cannot use unbelievable sources and information for support. It undermines your argument.
> >
> As frequently occurs, you contest the reporter but not the
> story.
>
> This is all widely known, and reported, just not by NYT
> until two years later.
>
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12952604/source-claims-joe-biden-is-big-guy-in-hunter-emails-leak/
>
> https://www.newsweek.com/tony-bobulinskis-emails-texts-corroborate-accounts-hunter-biden-china-deals-wsj-editorial-page-1541536
>
> https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/20/why-big-media-will-never-report-on-hunter-bidens-emails/
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I am not questioning whether Joe Biden's son had business dealings with Ukraine or China. He probably did. After all Jared Kuschner, Ivanka's husband, had lots of business with Saudi Arabia. And I don't recall Donald being too concerned with the Saudi king or prince murdering that Kashoggi reporter. Seems to me your son in law doing business with a murderer is kind of serious too.

My disparaging of your post is due to its title mainly. "poll-media-suppression-of-hunter-biden-laptop-story-made-joe-biden-president" First, I am very doubtful whether Joe's son influenced many or any votes. But your title says a poll proved not talking about Joe's son made Joe president of the USA. And I showed that the pollster for this dubious poll was a very biased source. Why on earth would you believe a poll by someone who was biased? If the KKK conducted a poll showing there was no racial discrimination, would you believe it? If the NRA conducted a poll showing guns reduce crime and make everyone happy, would you believe it?

Re: Heroin and bicycles

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Subject: Re: Heroin and bicycles
From: ritzanna...@gmail.com (russellseaton1@yahoo.com)
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 by: russellseaton1@yahoo - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 04:26 UTC

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 9:36:32 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 6:09:56 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 4/24/2022 11:05 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:24:37 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> Bias is equally if not more effective by _not_ reporting
> > >> inconvenient events.
> > >>
> > >> https://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2022/03/poll-media-suppression-of-hunter-biden-laptop-story-made-joe-biden-president/
> > >> --
> > >> Andrew Muzi
> > >> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > >> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > >
> > > Andy, concerning the link you provided. I am somewhat skeptical of the articles on that website. I could not find any official description or condemnation of that website, but it seems to be leaning to one side. So not too objective. And the exact link you provided has the following quote in it:
> > > "As now pointed out by the Post Millenial, polling showed that almost 20% of Biden voters, or nearly 1 in 5, would not have voted for Joe Biden had they known about the corruption his son, Hunter Biden, was involved in and Joe’s possible role in it"
> > >
> > > Oddly, they misspelled "Millenial" in their written article. I do not have much confidence in stories with obvious misspellings. Its very rare amongst professional organizations to not proofread and correct obvious errors that make you look foolish. But their misspelling is not my main concern.. It is the poll by this Post Millennial. Here is a Wikipedia page for this Post Millennial.
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Post_Millennial
> > > "The Post Millennial is a conservative Canadian online news magazine started in 2017. It publishes national and local news and has a large amount of opinion content. It has been criticized for publishing false stories and COVID-19 disinformation, as well as for its opaque funding and political connections."
> > > "The Post Millennial is backed by private investors, but their identities have not been made public. Other funding sources remain unclear, with proceeds from advertising or subscriptions undefined."
> > >
> > > How much credibility do you place in a poll conducted by such a dubious organization as The Post Millennial? Do you also believe polls conducted in Russia saying Putin is beloved by 99% of the people polled? And the Ukraine invasion war is just and proper and the right thing to do for Mother Russia? The Russian polls are very positive about this. Should we let the KKK conduct a poll amongst the KKK on whether blacks should have rights? And use the results of the poll to make policy?
> > >
> > > Andy, as I have told Tommy boy many times, your source for your support is critical. You cannot use unbelievable sources and information for support. It undermines your argument.
> > >
> >
> > As frequently occurs, you contest the reporter but not the
> > story.
> >
> > This is all widely known, and reported, just not by NYT
> > until two years later.
> >
> > https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12952604/source-claims-joe-biden-is-big-guy-in-hunter-emails-leak/
> >
> > https://www.newsweek.com/tony-bobulinskis-emails-texts-corroborate-accounts-hunter-biden-china-deals-wsj-editorial-page-1541536
> >
> > https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/20/why-big-media-will-never-report-on-hunter-bidens-emails/
> Well, when you have cowards like Russell posting no sources are believable and the only thing he will believe is the Democrat narrative. He is simply a lost cause which is why I have blocked him.

> People who cannot face facts

Tommy, tommy, tommy, this is extra rich coming from you. Ha Ha Ha Ha.

> simply cannot be shown anything since they lack the ability to even understand truth when it is shoved directly into their faces.

Re: Heroin and bicycles

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From: slocom...@gmail.com (John B.)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Heroin and bicycles
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 13:04:15 +0700
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 by: John B. - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 06:04 UTC

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 21:11:01 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:17:39 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 20:36:37 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 4:23:31 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 01:12:20 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 12:02:20 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 19:48:53 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 7:34:09 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:48:39 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> >> >> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 5:58:21 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 10:59:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> >> >> >> >> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >On 4/22/2022 11:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> On 4/22/2022 5:51 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 9:55:48 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> On 4/22/2022 7:44 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> On 4/21/2022 9:45 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 21:10:35 -0500, AMuzi
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 7:05 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:09:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> On 4/20/2022 6:59 PM, John B. wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> One point that never seems to be addressed is "why?".
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> I've been stopped by police while in an automobile and
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> I didn't attack
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> the policeman or try to run away and I've known quite
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> a number of
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> others who have been stopped by the Cops and didn't
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> attack the officer
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> or try to run away.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> But in nearly all cases of a police killing it seems,
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> at least from
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> what one "reads in the Newspaper" the victim did just
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> that, Either
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> tried to run away or attacked the Officer. Why?
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Why?
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> I'll repeat a tale I've told before. Our suburban
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> village has a
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> reputation as a speed trap - IOW, that they actually
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> enforce the
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> state-mandated 25 mph zones in the village center.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> That's more than fine
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> by me. (Actually, they don't ticket for 29 mph, but 30
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> or more may get
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> you stopped.)
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> The newspaper's "Police Report" often lists guys
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> arrested here for
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> controlled substances, outstanding warrants, etc. after
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> being stopped
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> here for speeding, running a red light, no lights, etc.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> So I asked a cop friend "If a guy with an outstanding
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> warrant has drugs
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> in his car, why wouldn't he drive super carefully?"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> His answer: "They're not Einsteins, Frank."
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> That's why.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> So rather then "headlines" saying "Cop Shoots Man" it
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> should read,
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> "Known Felon Shot While Attempting to Flee Arrest".
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> And rather then "Black Lives Matter" the battle cry
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> should be "Black
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Criminals Matter!"
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> +1
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/04/21/eric-adams-is-right-blm-costs-black-lives/
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> If one looks at the facts, rather then the "Lurid" News
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> then one quite
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> often develops a substantially different viewpoint then
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> what seems to
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> be popular.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> The new mayor deserves some credit for pointing out that
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> annoying truth.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> Apologies for replying to my own reply but the link above
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> regards the mayor's comments yesterday 21 April. Update:
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> https://nypost.com/2022/04/21/blms-hawk-newsome-blames-mayor-eric-adams-for-nyc-war-zone/
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> Some pathetic souls are so invested in screaming about
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> 'racism' in order to gin up discord, even where it's
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> ridiculously absent, just cannot drop that weapon.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> side note-
>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> Waiting for the pearl-clutching 'fact check' organizations
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> to cover Mr Newsome's description of Mayor Adams as 'n---r'
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> and 'a white man in blackface, and a very conservative white
>> >> >> >> >> >>>> man at that'.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Post
>> >> >> >> >> >>> "The New York Post (NY Post) is a conservative daily tabloid newspaper
>> >> >> >> >> >>> published in New York City. The Post also operates NYPost.com, the
>> >> >> >> >> >>> celebrity gossip site PageSix.com, and the entertainment site
>> >> >> >> >> >>> Decider.com.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>> It was established in 1801 by Federalist and Founding Father Alexander
>> >> >> >> >> >>> Hamilton, and became a respected broadsheet in the 19th century under
>> >> >> >> >> >>> the name New York Evening Post.[9] Its most famous 19th-century editor
>> >> >> >> >> >>> was William Cullen Bryant. In the mid-20th century, the paper was
>> >> >> >> >> >>> owned by Dorothy Schiff, a devoted liberal, who developed its tabloid
>> >> >> >> >> >>> format. In 1976, Rupert Murdoch bought the Post for US$30.5 million.
>> >> >> >> >> >>> Since 1993, the Post has been owned by Murdoch's News Corp. Its
>> >> >> >> >> >>> distribution ranked 4th in the US in 2019."
>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>> Andy, if you are relying on the New York Post for your source, you
>> >> >> >> >> >>> need some help. Tommy boy uses similar sources for his support. If
>> >> >> >> >> >>> you click on the Wikipedia link for the New York Post, you will be
>> >> >> >> >> >>> taken to a website that shows one of the Post's papers. It says
>> >> >> >> >> >>> "Bezos Exposes Pecker". With a picture of Jeff Bezos and his
>> >> >> >> >> >>> girlfriend or wife. Fully clothed of course. Tell us Andy, does the
>> >> >> >> >> >>> Wisconsin State Journal run headlines like that on its front page?
>> >> >> >> >> >>> Your main state newspaper. The NY Post is very comparable to Fox News
>> >> >> >> >> >>> or Newsmax or One America News or similar places.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>> Now, I am not saying the black mayor of New York City, Eric Adams, and
>> >> >> >> >> >>> the black BLM founder/participant, Hawk Newsome, did not have a
>> >> >> >> >> >>> disagreement and did not call each other names. I am sure they did
>> >> >> >> >> >>> have a divergence. I am sure the founders and participants of the KKK
>> >> >> >> >> >>> disagreed on many matters too. But they still held to their core
>> >> >> >> >> >>> principles.
>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> I saw Mr Newsome's interview in his own words (except the bleep) it on
>> >> >> >> >> >> the radio early on WOR and later on WABC.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> Post has convenient non-paywall web links.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> You're welcome in that your only criticism is that you dislike the Post.
>> >> >> >> >> >> I assume you share with me utter contempt for Mr Newsome and BLM generally.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >Let me agree with Mr. Muzi on part of this. I suppose most news outlets
>> >> >> >> >> >have some editorial slant one way or other. (I've seen articles rating
>> >> >> >> >> >that slant for dozens of news sources - although I'm sure those offended
>> >> >> >> >> >by the ratings will call "bias!") And I do think the Post is not
>> >> >> >> >> >particularly respectable as a source.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >However, not everything in the Post is wrong. Similarly, if a biased and
>> >> >> >> >> >deluded maniac says "The sun is rising!" the sun may still be rising.
>> >> >> >> >> But what is "Bias"? Is it, in some manner, a definitive measure of
>> >> >> >> >> right and wrong? Or a matter of what a large number of people consider
>> >> >> >> >> right and wrong, at this moment in time?
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Slavery, for example. A perfectly legal and accepted practice from
>> >> >> >> >> earliest human history until `about` the 1800's, and now regarded with
>> >> >> >> >> horror.
>> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> Cheers,
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> John B.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Bias would be a leaning, slant, towards one side of a philosophy. Assuming there are only two sides to every idea.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >You mention slavery. It has been practiced and legal for thousands of years. But not everyone practiced it. Not everyone accepted it. There was always a large number of people against it. Same with drug use. Marijuana and hashish in particular. Commonly used by many up until about 100 years ago. Legal usage of drugs. And some of these illegal drugs are now being made legal again. Prostitution and whore houses. Very legal in most places around the world until somewhat recently. But still legal in Nevada and Amsterdam. Imagine that. Drugs and prostitutes, legal. Horror.
>> >> >> >> "But not everyone practiced it. Not everyone accepted it"??
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Really? During what time period? The Roman Empire is pretty well
>> >> >> >> documented and slavery was certainly accepted then, in fact part of
>> >> >> >> the Legion's "pay", was in dividing the money gotten from selling
>> >> >> >> enslaved enemy. It was written that when Julius Caesar conquered Gaul
>> >> >> >> the numbers of slaves sold by the conquering Romans depressed the
>> >> >> >> Mediterranean slave markets for several years.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I think, if you look into it, that slavery became less acceptable as
>> >> >> >> an economy became less dependent on agriculture. The U.S. Civil War
>> >> >> >> was fought between the largely agricultural South and the rapidly
>> >> >> >> becoming industrialized North.
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> Cheers,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> John B.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Yes the changing economy of the world changed slavery. According to Google, 1803 Denmark Norway stopped trading in slaves. Not sure if that means they outlawed it in Denmark Norway or not. Maybe that was just the start to abolish it and the current slaves could still be kept as slaves. 1834 Britain abolished slavery in all its dominion. 1847 France abolished slavery in all its colonies. I'm guessing also in France proper too. Even the USA banned the importation of slaves beginning in 1808. Current and newly bred slaves were not impacted of course. But even by 1808, the slave promoters in the USA knew slavery was not popular.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >As for the Civil War. Did any of the enlisted Confederates own slaves? I'd guess no. The Confederate politicians and officers owned slaves. But did any of the Confederate enlisted soldiers own slaves?
>> >> >> It is likely that not every Confederate Soldier was a slave owner and
>> >> >> from what I read, it is likely that slavery wasn't a major factor in
>> >> >> some defending the South. General R.E. Lee, was a graduate of the U.S.
>> >> >> Military Academy and served in the U.S. Army for something like 32
>> >> >> years but when his home state Virginia seceded from the U.S. he
>> >> >> elected to serve his state.
>> >> >
>> >> >I have heard that too. And he also had slaves on his Arlington estate.
>> >> >
>> >> Well, if memory serves George Washington, sometimes refereed to as,
>> >> "The father of his country" had slaves... something like 150 of them
>> >> :-)
>> >
>> >Yes. I am aware of that fact. Thomas Jefferson also had slaves. But that is more well known since he purportedly had sex and or babies with at least one of his slaves. Kind of funny, the left half of Mt. Rushmore were slave owners. The one on the far right freed the slaves. And the other one killed African big game animals.
>>
>> Which is essentially what I said, way back in the beginning" That for
>> much of human history slavery was a perfectly logical and legal
>> institution and in about the 1800's it began to become horrifying.
>> >
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I think, the theory of "States Rights" was probably a far stronger
>> >> >> force and had a far greater following in the 1800's then it does
>> >> >> today.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And, again from what I read, slavery, although much mentioned today,
>> >> >> was probably not the underlying factor in the U.S. Civil War, although
>> >> >> it is popular to say so today. The major factor seems to have been who
>> >> >> would control the U.S. Government, the southern states or the northern
>> >> >> states.
>> >> >
>> >> >OK. But the new party coming into control of the government was specifically going to ban slavery. And the only power the Confederate states had in the Congress was due to them having the 3/5ths of a person for slaves rule in place. A vast majority of the voting men in the USA lived in the northern states. The south was not too populated. Seems to me slavery was a pretty integral part of why the Civil War started.
>> >> The number of voters in the North and the South had nothing to do with
>> >> it. It was the members of the Congress that counted and the
>> >> Republicans (i.e. Northern States) gained control of the Congress as
>> >> of March 1861.
>> >
>> >The number of voters had nothing to do with it? You are aware the Confederate states got extra members of Congress because they could count their slaves as 3/5th of a person for congressional districting. Even back then they had a set number of House seats in total. And they were allocated based on the census every ten years. And the Confederate states got more representatives because their non voting slaves were counted as 3/5ths of a person for population, redistricting purposes. The South got extra members of the House because they had non voting slaves. The North gained control of Congress in 1861. And their platform, goal, was to eliminate slavery.
>> >
>> >So you still don't think slavery had anything to do with the Civil War starting? John, I do not mean to insult or demean you, but this logic is very reminiscent of Tommy logic.
>>
>>
>> Of course it had something to do with the Civil war. If you freed the
>> slaves the south would go broke, which in turn meant that the southern
>> states had no choice other then to oppose the idea. But had the south
>> been able to get a majority in the U.S.
>> https://www.vaguelyinteresting.co.uk/why-was-kyoto-removed-as-the-prime-target-for-the-a-bomb/ature
>> then they could have prevented. Thus the hullabaloo over Kansas.
>>
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >> Whereupon the Southern States elected to withdraw from the Nation,
>> >> much as what happened in 1776, which in turn caused the South to
>> >> effectively declare war in April.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It might be noted that prior to the Civil War cotton exports from the
>> >> >> southern states amounted to about 1/2 the total value of all U.S.
>> >> >> exports and had the South seceded it's economy would have been
>> >> >> stronger then the North's.
>> >> >
>> >> >OK. Wikipedia says the Confederate states amounted to the 4th largest GDP in the world at the start of the Civil War. However since the North controlled the Navy, I am not sure how the Confederate would be able to export its cotton for profit. Its kind of like Russia today. It has many billions in foreign currency and assets stashed all over the world. But the USA and EU have prevented it from getting to its reserves. So its worthless to them.
>> >> I should have said "successfully seceded".
>> >
>> >I'm not sure how they ever would have been successful. Even with a land victory, or cessation of fighting within the states, or treaty. The North government controlled the Navy and could have easily continued the stoppage of the South's trade to Europe. I do not think there could have ever been a successful secession. It was a yes or no decision. No maybe in between possible. Very similar to Japan in WW2. The USA defeated the Japanese Navy at sea in 1944 and early 1945. But the USA did not have land control yet. So kept on bombing Japan mainland. Similar to the Civil War. Just because the land army lost or stopped fighting with a treaty, no reason the navy could not keep fighting.
>>
>> Why ever not? After all the American Colonies were successful and
>> England was the most powerful nation with the largest navy in the
>> world.
>
>The Revolutionary War was primarily a land based war. I do not remember how much the Navies played a part in the war. So even though Britain had the most powerful Navy in the world, it would still be impossible for them to prevent the colonies, new USA, from shipping and using its ports. How would the British ships patrolling the USA ports resupply? Britain is 2000 miles away. Patrol for one month, until food and munitions ran out, then sail for one month back home and reload supplies, then sail one month back to patrolling the USA. That is not very logical. Remember when Britain had its empire in SE Asia and India. It also had ports and land down there too. So its ships could fight and resupply in the same part of the world. They did not sail home to England every month. Also remember Britain founded or conquered South Africa so it would have a resupply port for its ships sailing from Britain to India. Britain understood you also needed land based ports to run a Navy.
>So back to the Civil War. The North would have used its Navy, with close by ports, to prevent the South from having any exports.


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Re: Heroin and bicycles

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From: am...@yellowjersey.org (AMuzi)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Heroin and bicycles
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 07:39:42 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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 by: AMuzi - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 12:39 UTC

On 4/25/2022 11:11 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:17:39 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 20:36:37 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 4:23:31 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 01:12:20 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 12:02:20 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 19:48:53 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 7:34:09 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:48:39 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>>>>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 5:58:21 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 10:59:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/2022 11:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/2022 5:51 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 9:55:48 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/2022 7:44 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 9:45 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 21:10:35 -0500, AMuzi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 7:05 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:09:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/20/2022 6:59 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One point that never seems to be addressed is "why?".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been stopped by police while in an automobile and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't attack
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the policeman or try to run away and I've known quite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a number of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others who have been stopped by the Cops and didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attack the officer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or try to run away.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But in nearly all cases of a police killing it seems,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what one "reads in the Newspaper" the victim did just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, Either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tried to run away or attacked the Officer. Why?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll repeat a tale I've told before. Our suburban
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> village has a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reputation as a speed trap - IOW, that they actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enforce the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state-mandated 25 mph zones in the village center.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's more than fine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by me. (Actually, they don't ticket for 29 mph, but 30
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or more may get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you stopped.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The newspaper's "Police Report" often lists guys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arrested here for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> controlled substances, outstanding warrants, etc. after
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being stopped
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here for speeding, running a red light, no lights, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So I asked a cop friend "If a guy with an outstanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warrant has drugs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in his car, why wouldn't he drive super carefully?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> His answer: "They're not Einsteins, Frank."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's why.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So rather then "headlines" saying "Cop Shoots Man" it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should read,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Known Felon Shot While Attempting to Flee Arrest".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And rather then "Black Lives Matter" the battle cry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be "Black
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Criminals Matter!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/04/21/eric-adams-is-right-blm-costs-black-lives/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If one looks at the facts, rather then the "Lurid" News
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then one quite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often develops a substantially different viewpoint then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what seems to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be popular.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The new mayor deserves some credit for pointing out that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> annoying truth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apologies for replying to my own reply but the link above
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards the mayor's comments yesterday 21 April. Update:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/04/21/blms-hawk-newsome-blames-mayor-eric-adams-for-nyc-war-zone/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some pathetic souls are so invested in screaming about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'racism' in order to gin up discord, even where it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ridiculously absent, just cannot drop that weapon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side note-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Waiting for the pearl-clutching 'fact check' organizations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to cover Mr Newsome's description of Mayor Adams as 'n---r'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and 'a white man in blackface, and a very conservative white
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man at that'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Post
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The New York Post (NY Post) is a conservative daily tabloid newspaper
>>>>>>>>>>>>> published in New York City. The Post also operates NYPost.com, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> celebrity gossip site PageSix.com, and the entertainment site
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Decider.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It was established in 1801 by Federalist and Founding Father Alexander
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hamilton, and became a respected broadsheet in the 19th century under
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the name New York Evening Post.[9] Its most famous 19th-century editor
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was William Cullen Bryant. In the mid-20th century, the paper was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> owned by Dorothy Schiff, a devoted liberal, who developed its tabloid
>>>>>>>>>>>>> format. In 1976, Rupert Murdoch bought the Post for US$30.5 million.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since 1993, the Post has been owned by Murdoch's News Corp. Its
>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution ranked 4th in the US in 2019."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy, if you are relying on the New York Post for your source, you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> need some help. Tommy boy uses similar sources for his support. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you click on the Wikipedia link for the New York Post, you will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> taken to a website that shows one of the Post's papers. It says
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Bezos Exposes Pecker". With a picture of Jeff Bezos and his
>>>>>>>>>>>>> girlfriend or wife. Fully clothed of course. Tell us Andy, does the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin State Journal run headlines like that on its front page?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your main state newspaper. The NY Post is very comparable to Fox News
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or Newsmax or One America News or similar places.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I am not saying the black mayor of New York City, Eric Adams, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the black BLM founder/participant, Hawk Newsome, did not have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> disagreement and did not call each other names. I am sure they did
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a divergence. I am sure the founders and participants of the KKK
>>>>>>>>>>>>> disagreed on many matters too. But they still held to their core
>>>>>>>>>>>>> principles.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I saw Mr Newsome's interview in his own words (except the bleep) it on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the radio early on WOR and later on WABC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Post has convenient non-paywall web links.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You're welcome in that your only criticism is that you dislike the Post.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I assume you share with me utter contempt for Mr Newsome and BLM generally.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Let me agree with Mr. Muzi on part of this. I suppose most news outlets
>>>>>>>>>>> have some editorial slant one way or other. (I've seen articles rating
>>>>>>>>>>> that slant for dozens of news sources - although I'm sure those offended
>>>>>>>>>>> by the ratings will call "bias!") And I do think the Post is not
>>>>>>>>>>> particularly respectable as a source.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> However, not everything in the Post is wrong. Similarly, if a biased and
>>>>>>>>>>> deluded maniac says "The sun is rising!" the sun may still be rising.
>>>>>>>>>> But what is "Bias"? Is it, in some manner, a definitive measure of
>>>>>>>>>> right and wrong? Or a matter of what a large number of people consider
>>>>>>>>>> right and wrong, at this moment in time?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Slavery, for example. A perfectly legal and accepted practice from
>>>>>>>>>> earliest human history until `about` the 1800's, and now regarded with
>>>>>>>>>> horror.
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bias would be a leaning, slant, towards one side of a philosophy. Assuming there are only two sides to every idea.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You mention slavery. It has been practiced and legal for thousands of years. But not everyone practiced it. Not everyone accepted it. There was always a large number of people against it. Same with drug use. Marijuana and hashish in particular. Commonly used by many up until about 100 years ago. Legal usage of drugs. And some of these illegal drugs are now being made legal again. Prostitution and whore houses. Very legal in most places around the world until somewhat recently. But still legal in Nevada and Amsterdam. Imagine that. Drugs and prostitutes, legal. Horror.
>>>>>>>> "But not everyone practiced it. Not everyone accepted it"??
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Really? During what time period? The Roman Empire is pretty well
>>>>>>>> documented and slavery was certainly accepted then, in fact part of
>>>>>>>> the Legion's "pay", was in dividing the money gotten from selling
>>>>>>>> enslaved enemy. It was written that when Julius Caesar conquered Gaul
>>>>>>>> the numbers of slaves sold by the conquering Romans depressed the
>>>>>>>> Mediterranean slave markets for several years.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think, if you look into it, that slavery became less acceptable as
>>>>>>>> an economy became less dependent on agriculture. The U.S. Civil War
>>>>>>>> was fought between the largely agricultural South and the rapidly
>>>>>>>> becoming industrialized North.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes the changing economy of the world changed slavery. According to Google, 1803 Denmark Norway stopped trading in slaves. Not sure if that means they outlawed it in Denmark Norway or not. Maybe that was just the start to abolish it and the current slaves could still be kept as slaves. 1834 Britain abolished slavery in all its dominion. 1847 France abolished slavery in all its colonies. I'm guessing also in France proper too. Even the USA banned the importation of slaves beginning in 1808. Current and newly bred slaves were not impacted of course. But even by 1808, the slave promoters in the USA knew slavery was not popular.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for the Civil War. Did any of the enlisted Confederates own slaves? I'd guess no. The Confederate politicians and officers owned slaves. But did any of the Confederate enlisted soldiers own slaves?
>>>>>> It is likely that not every Confederate Soldier was a slave owner and
>>>>>> from what I read, it is likely that slavery wasn't a major factor in
>>>>>> some defending the South. General R.E. Lee, was a graduate of the U.S.
>>>>>> Military Academy and served in the U.S. Army for something like 32
>>>>>> years but when his home state Virginia seceded from the U.S. he
>>>>>> elected to serve his state.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have heard that too. And he also had slaves on his Arlington estate.
>>>>>
>>>> Well, if memory serves George Washington, sometimes refereed to as,
>>>> "The father of his country" had slaves... something like 150 of them
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Yes. I am aware of that fact. Thomas Jefferson also had slaves. But that is more well known since he purportedly had sex and or babies with at least one of his slaves. Kind of funny, the left half of Mt. Rushmore were slave owners. The one on the far right freed the slaves. And the other one killed African big game animals.
>>
>> Which is essentially what I said, way back in the beginning" That for
>> much of human history slavery was a perfectly logical and legal
>> institution and in about the 1800's it began to become horrifying.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think, the theory of "States Rights" was probably a far stronger
>>>>>> force and had a far greater following in the 1800's then it does
>>>>>> today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, again from what I read, slavery, although much mentioned today,
>>>>>> was probably not the underlying factor in the U.S. Civil War, although
>>>>>> it is popular to say so today. The major factor seems to have been who
>>>>>> would control the U.S. Government, the southern states or the northern
>>>>>> states.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK. But the new party coming into control of the government was specifically going to ban slavery. And the only power the Confederate states had in the Congress was due to them having the 3/5ths of a person for slaves rule in place. A vast majority of the voting men in the USA lived in the northern states. The south was not too populated. Seems to me slavery was a pretty integral part of why the Civil War started.
>>>> The number of voters in the North and the South had nothing to do with
>>>> it. It was the members of the Congress that counted and the
>>>> Republicans (i.e. Northern States) gained control of the Congress as
>>>> of March 1861.
>>>
>>> The number of voters had nothing to do with it? You are aware the Confederate states got extra members of Congress because they could count their slaves as 3/5th of a person for congressional districting. Even back then they had a set number of House seats in total. And they were allocated based on the census every ten years. And the Confederate states got more representatives because their non voting slaves were counted as 3/5ths of a person for population, redistricting purposes. The South got extra members of the House because they had non voting slaves. The North gained control of Congress in 1861. And their platform, goal, was to eliminate slavery.
>>>
>>> So you still don't think slavery had anything to do with the Civil War starting? John, I do not mean to insult or demean you, but this logic is very reminiscent of Tommy logic.
>>
>>
>> Of course it had something to do with the Civil war. If you freed the
>> slaves the south would go broke, which in turn meant that the southern
>> states had no choice other then to oppose the idea. But had the south
>> been able to get a majority in the U.S.
>> https://www.vaguelyinteresting.co.uk/why-was-kyoto-removed-as-the-prime-target-for-the-a-bomb/ature
>> then they could have prevented. Thus the hullabaloo over Kansas.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Whereupon the Southern States elected to withdraw from the Nation,
>>>> much as what happened in 1776, which in turn caused the South to
>>>> effectively declare war in April.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It might be noted that prior to the Civil War cotton exports from the
>>>>>> southern states amounted to about 1/2 the total value of all U.S.
>>>>>> exports and had the South seceded it's economy would have been
>>>>>> stronger then the North's.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK. Wikipedia says the Confederate states amounted to the 4th largest GDP in the world at the start of the Civil War. However since the North controlled the Navy, I am not sure how the Confederate would be able to export its cotton for profit. Its kind of like Russia today. It has many billions in foreign currency and assets stashed all over the world. But the USA and EU have prevented it from getting to its reserves. So its worthless to them.
>>>> I should have said "successfully seceded".
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how they ever would have been successful. Even with a land victory, or cessation of fighting within the states, or treaty. The North government controlled the Navy and could have easily continued the stoppage of the South's trade to Europe. I do not think there could have ever been a successful secession. It was a yes or no decision. No maybe in between possible. Very similar to Japan in WW2. The USA defeated the Japanese Navy at sea in 1944 and early 1945. But the USA did not have land control yet. So kept on bombing Japan mainland. Similar to the Civil War. Just because the land army lost or stopped fighting with a treaty, no reason the navy could not keep fighting.
>>
>> Why ever not? After all the American Colonies were successful and
>> England was the most powerful nation with the largest navy in the
>> world.
>
> The Revolutionary War was primarily a land based war. I do not remember how much the Navies played a part in the war. So even though Britain had the most powerful Navy in the world, it would still be impossible for them to prevent the colonies, new USA, from shipping and using its ports. How would the British ships patrolling the USA ports resupply? Britain is 2000 miles away. Patrol for one month, until food and munitions ran out, then sail for one month back home and reload supplies, then sail one month back to patrolling the USA. That is not very logical. Remember when Britain had its empire in SE Asia and India. It also had ports and land down there too. So its ships could fight and resupply in the same part of the world. They did not sail home to England every month. Also remember Britain founded or conquered South Africa so it would have a resupply port for its ships sailing from Britain to India. Britain understood you also needed land based ports to run a Navy.
So back to the Civil War. The North would have used its Navy, with close by ports, to prevent the South from having any exports.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> So I very much stand by my statements. Not everyone practiced it. The vast majority of the Confederate did not own any slaves. The vast majority of the population of Europe did not own slaves. And not everyone accepted it. Early mid 1800s it was outlawed in Europe. 1860 in the USA. And like the women voting act in 1920 in the USA, the backbone to get the law passed started decades before the fact. And with slavery, the laws outlawing it did not pass until the 1800s, but the supporters working against it started 20-50-100 years earlier.
>>>>>> "Not everyone practiced it"?? Tell me what country in the world did
>>>>>> not practice slavery.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the European countries had abolished slavery long before the USA did. Although Spain kept it going in Cuba until 1888 or so. Or are you asking which countries in the whole history of civilization have never ever practiced slavery? Maybe just the Vatican?
>>>>>
>>>> True, which has no bearing on my original statement that all countries
>>>> had practiced slavery. I was simply refereeing to one of my original
>>>> statements that
>>>> "Slavery, for example. A perfectly legal and accepted practice from
>>>> earliest human history until `about` the 1800's, and now regarded with
>>>> horror."
>>>
>>> I am drawing a distinction between practicing slavey sometime in history and practicing it right then and there. Yes many, most, all nations, civilizations through history practiced slavery. Similarly many nations, religions, tribes, practiced polygamy. And there is still polygamy in a few places on earth today. Or the death sentence for some criminals. Once widely practiced about everywhere. But less so today.
>>
>> Which is quite the opposite of what I wrote (:-)
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.


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Subject: Re: Heroin and bicycles
From: cyclin...@gmail.com (Tom Kunich)
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 by: Tom Kunich - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 14:52 UTC

On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 5:39:49 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/25/2022 11:11 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:17:39 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 20:36:37 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 4:23:31 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 01:12:20 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 12:02:20 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 19:48:53 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 7:34:09 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:48:39 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> >>>>>>>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 5:58:21 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 10:59:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/2022 11:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/2022 5:51 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 9:55:48 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/2022 7:44 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 9:45 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 21:10:35 -0500, AMuzi
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 7:05 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 14:09:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/20/2022 6:59 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One point that never seems to be addressed is "why?"..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been stopped by police while in an automobile and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't attack
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the policeman or try to run away and I've known quite
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a number of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others who have been stopped by the Cops and didn't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attack the officer
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or try to run away.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But in nearly all cases of a police killing it seems,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what one "reads in the Newspaper" the victim did just
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, Either
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tried to run away or attacked the Officer. Why?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll repeat a tale I've told before. Our suburban
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> village has a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reputation as a speed trap - IOW, that they actually
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enforce the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state-mandated 25 mph zones in the village center.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's more than fine
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by me. (Actually, they don't ticket for 29 mph, but 30
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or more may get
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you stopped.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The newspaper's "Police Report" often lists guys
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arrested here for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> controlled substances, outstanding warrants, etc. after
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being stopped
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here for speeding, running a red light, no lights, etc.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So I asked a cop friend "If a guy with an outstanding
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warrant has drugs
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in his car, why wouldn't he drive super carefully?"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> His answer: "They're not Einsteins, Frank."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's why.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So rather then "headlines" saying "Cop Shoots Man" it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should read,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Known Felon Shot While Attempting to Flee Arrest".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And rather then "Black Lives Matter" the battle cry
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be "Black
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Criminals Matter!"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/04/21/eric-adams-is-right-blm-costs-black-lives/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If one looks at the facts, rather then the "Lurid" News
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then one quite
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often develops a substantially different viewpoint then
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what seems to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be popular.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The new mayor deserves some credit for pointing out that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> annoying truth.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apologies for replying to my own reply but the link above
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards the mayor's comments yesterday 21 April. Update:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://nypost.com/2022/04/21/blms-hawk-newsome-blames-mayor-eric-adams-for-nyc-war-zone/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some pathetic souls are so invested in screaming about
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'racism' in order to gin up discord, even where it's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ridiculously absent, just cannot drop that weapon.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> side note-
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Waiting for the pearl-clutching 'fact check' organizations
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to cover Mr Newsome's description of Mayor Adams as 'n---r'
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and 'a white man in blackface, and a very conservative white
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> man at that'.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Post
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "The New York Post (NY Post) is a conservative daily tabloid newspaper
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> published in New York City. The Post also operates NYPost.com, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> celebrity gossip site PageSix.com, and the entertainment site
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Decider.com.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It was established in 1801 by Federalist and Founding Father Alexander
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hamilton, and became a respected broadsheet in the 19th century under
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the name New York Evening Post.[9] Its most famous 19th-century editor
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> was William Cullen Bryant. In the mid-20th century, the paper was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> owned by Dorothy Schiff, a devoted liberal, who developed its tabloid
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> format. In 1976, Rupert Murdoch bought the Post for US$30.5 million.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Since 1993, the Post has been owned by Murdoch's News Corp. Its
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution ranked 4th in the US in 2019."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy, if you are relying on the New York Post for your source, you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> need some help. Tommy boy uses similar sources for his support. If
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> you click on the Wikipedia link for the New York Post, you will be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> taken to a website that shows one of the Post's papers. It says
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Bezos Exposes Pecker". With a picture of Jeff Bezos and his
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> girlfriend or wife. Fully clothed of course. Tell us Andy, does the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin State Journal run headlines like that on its front page?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Your main state newspaper. The NY Post is very comparable to Fox News
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> or Newsmax or One America News or similar places.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I am not saying the black mayor of New York City, Eric Adams, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the black BLM founder/participant, Hawk Newsome, did not have a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> disagreement and did not call each other names. I am sure they did
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> have a divergence. I am sure the founders and participants of the KKK
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> disagreed on many matters too. But they still held to their core
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> principles.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I saw Mr Newsome's interview in his own words (except the bleep) it on
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the radio early on WOR and later on WABC.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Post has convenient non-paywall web links.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> You're welcome in that your only criticism is that you dislike the Post.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I assume you share with me utter contempt for Mr Newsome and BLM generally.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Let me agree with Mr. Muzi on part of this. I suppose most news outlets
> >>>>>>>>>>> have some editorial slant one way or other. (I've seen articles rating
> >>>>>>>>>>> that slant for dozens of news sources - although I'm sure those offended
> >>>>>>>>>>> by the ratings will call "bias!") And I do think the Post is not
> >>>>>>>>>>> particularly respectable as a source.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> However, not everything in the Post is wrong. Similarly, if a biased and
> >>>>>>>>>>> deluded maniac says "The sun is rising!" the sun may still be rising.
> >>>>>>>>>> But what is "Bias"? Is it, in some manner, a definitive measure of
> >>>>>>>>>> right and wrong? Or a matter of what a large number of people consider
> >>>>>>>>>> right and wrong, at this moment in time?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Slavery, for example. A perfectly legal and accepted practice from
> >>>>>>>>>> earliest human history until `about` the 1800's, and now regarded with
> >>>>>>>>>> horror.
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> John B.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Bias would be a leaning, slant, towards one side of a philosophy. Assuming there are only two sides to every idea.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> You mention slavery. It has been practiced and legal for thousands of years. But not everyone practiced it. Not everyone accepted it. There was always a large number of people against it. Same with drug use. Marijuana and hashish in particular. Commonly used by many up until about 100 years ago. Legal usage of drugs. And some of these illegal drugs are now being made legal again. Prostitution and whore houses. Very legal in most places around the world until somewhat recently. But still legal in Nevada and Amsterdam. Imagine that. Drugs and prostitutes, legal. Horror.
> >>>>>>>> "But not everyone practiced it. Not everyone accepted it"??
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Really? During what time period? The Roman Empire is pretty well
> >>>>>>>> documented and slavery was certainly accepted then, in fact part of
> >>>>>>>> the Legion's "pay", was in dividing the money gotten from selling
> >>>>>>>> enslaved enemy. It was written that when Julius Caesar conquered Gaul
> >>>>>>>> the numbers of slaves sold by the conquering Romans depressed the
> >>>>>>>> Mediterranean slave markets for several years.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I think, if you look into it, that slavery became less acceptable as
> >>>>>>>> an economy became less dependent on agriculture. The U.S. Civil War
> >>>>>>>> was fought between the largely agricultural South and the rapidly
> >>>>>>>> becoming industrialized North.
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> John B.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yes the changing economy of the world changed slavery. According to Google, 1803 Denmark Norway stopped trading in slaves. Not sure if that means they outlawed it in Denmark Norway or not. Maybe that was just the start to abolish it and the current slaves could still be kept as slaves. 1834 Britain abolished slavery in all its dominion. 1847 France abolished slavery in all its colonies. I'm guessing also in France proper too. Even the USA banned the importation of slaves beginning in 1808. Current and newly bred slaves were not impacted of course. But even by 1808, the slave promoters in the USA knew slavery was not popular.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As for the Civil War. Did any of the enlisted Confederates own slaves? I'd guess no. The Confederate politicians and officers owned slaves. But did any of the Confederate enlisted soldiers own slaves?
> >>>>>> It is likely that not every Confederate Soldier was a slave owner and
> >>>>>> from what I read, it is likely that slavery wasn't a major factor in
> >>>>>> some defending the South. General R.E. Lee, was a graduate of the U.S.
> >>>>>> Military Academy and served in the U.S. Army for something like 32
> >>>>>> years but when his home state Virginia seceded from the U.S. he
> >>>>>> elected to serve his state.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have heard that too. And he also had slaves on his Arlington estate.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Well, if memory serves George Washington, sometimes refereed to as,
> >>>> "The father of his country" had slaves... something like 150 of them
> >>>> :-)
> >>>
> >>> Yes. I am aware of that fact. Thomas Jefferson also had slaves. But that is more well known since he purportedly had sex and or babies with at least one of his slaves. Kind of funny, the left half of Mt. Rushmore were slave owners. The one on the far right freed the slaves. And the other one killed African big game animals.
> >>
> >> Which is essentially what I said, way back in the beginning" That for
> >> much of human history slavery was a perfectly logical and legal
> >> institution and in about the 1800's it began to become horrifying.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think, the theory of "States Rights" was probably a far stronger
> >>>>>> force and had a far greater following in the 1800's then it does
> >>>>>> today.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And, again from what I read, slavery, although much mentioned today,
> >>>>>> was probably not the underlying factor in the U.S. Civil War, although
> >>>>>> it is popular to say so today. The major factor seems to have been who
> >>>>>> would control the U.S. Government, the southern states or the northern
> >>>>>> states.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> OK. But the new party coming into control of the government was specifically going to ban slavery. And the only power the Confederate states had in the Congress was due to them having the 3/5ths of a person for slaves rule in place. A vast majority of the voting men in the USA lived in the northern states. The south was not too populated. Seems to me slavery was a pretty integral part of why the Civil War started.
> >>>> The number of voters in the North and the South had nothing to do with
> >>>> it. It was the members of the Congress that counted and the
> >>>> Republicans (i.e. Northern States) gained control of the Congress as
> >>>> of March 1861.
> >>>
> >>> The number of voters had nothing to do with it? You are aware the Confederate states got extra members of Congress because they could count their slaves as 3/5th of a person for congressional districting. Even back then they had a set number of House seats in total. And they were allocated based on the census every ten years. And the Confederate states got more representatives because their non voting slaves were counted as 3/5ths of a person for population, redistricting purposes. The South got extra members of the House because they had non voting slaves. The North gained control of Congress in 1861. And their platform, goal, was to eliminate slavery.
> >>>
> >>> So you still don't think slavery had anything to do with the Civil War starting? John, I do not mean to insult or demean you, but this logic is very reminiscent of Tommy logic.
> >>
> >>
> >> Of course it had something to do with the Civil war. If you freed the
> >> slaves the south would go broke, which in turn meant that the southern
> >> states had no choice other then to oppose the idea. But had the south
> >> been able to get a majority in the U.S.
> >> https://www.vaguelyinteresting.co.uk/why-was-kyoto-removed-as-the-prime-target-for-the-a-bomb/ature
> >> then they could have prevented. Thus the hullabaloo over Kansas.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>> Whereupon the Southern States elected to withdraw from the Nation,
> >>>> much as what happened in 1776, which in turn caused the South to
> >>>> effectively declare war in April.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It might be noted that prior to the Civil War cotton exports from the
> >>>>>> southern states amounted to about 1/2 the total value of all U.S.
> >>>>>> exports and had the South seceded it's economy would have been
> >>>>>> stronger then the North's.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> OK. Wikipedia says the Confederate states amounted to the 4th largest GDP in the world at the start of the Civil War. However since the North controlled the Navy, I am not sure how the Confederate would be able to export its cotton for profit. Its kind of like Russia today. It has many billions in foreign currency and assets stashed all over the world. But the USA and EU have prevented it from getting to its reserves. So its worthless to them.
> >>>> I should have said "successfully seceded".
> >>>
> >>> I'm not sure how they ever would have been successful. Even with a land victory, or cessation of fighting within the states, or treaty. The North government controlled the Navy and could have easily continued the stoppage of the South's trade to Europe. I do not think there could have ever been a successful secession. It was a yes or no decision. No maybe in between possible. Very similar to Japan in WW2. The USA defeated the Japanese Navy at sea in 1944 and early 1945. But the USA did not have land control yet. So kept on bombing Japan mainland. Similar to the Civil War. Just because the land army lost or stopped fighting with a treaty, no reason the navy could not keep fighting.
> >>
> >> Why ever not? After all the American Colonies were successful and
> >> England was the most powerful nation with the largest navy in the
> >> world.
> >
> > The Revolutionary War was primarily a land based war. I do not remember how much the Navies played a part in the war. So even though Britain had the most powerful Navy in the world, it would still be impossible for them to prevent the colonies, new USA, from shipping and using its ports. How would the British ships patrolling the USA ports resupply? Britain is 2000 miles away. Patrol for one month, until food and munitions ran out, then sail for one month back home and reload supplies, then sail one month back to patrolling the USA. That is not very logical. Remember when Britain had its empire in SE Asia and India. It also had ports and land down there too. So its ships could fight and resupply in the same part of the world. They did not sail home to England every month. Also remember Britain founded or conquered South Africa so it would have a resupply port for its ships sailing from Britain to India. Britain understood you also needed land based ports to run a Navy.
> So back to the Civil War. The North would have used its Navy, with close by ports, to prevent the South from having any exports.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>> So I very much stand by my statements. Not everyone practiced it. The vast majority of the Confederate did not own any slaves. The vast majority of the population of Europe did not own slaves. And not everyone accepted it. Early mid 1800s it was outlawed in Europe. 1860 in the USA. And like the women voting act in 1920 in the USA, the backbone to get the law passed started decades before the fact. And with slavery, the laws outlawing it did not pass until the 1800s, but the supporters working against it started 20-50-100 years earlier.
> >>>>>> "Not everyone practiced it"?? Tell me what country in the world did
> >>>>>> not practice slavery.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All the European countries had abolished slavery long before the USA did. Although Spain kept it going in Cuba until 1888 or so. Or are you asking which countries in the whole history of civilization have never ever practiced slavery? Maybe just the Vatican?
> >>>>>
> >>>> True, which has no bearing on my original statement that all countries
> >>>> had practiced slavery. I was simply refereeing to one of my original
> >>>> statements that
> >>>> "Slavery, for example. A perfectly legal and accepted practice from
> >>>> earliest human history until `about` the 1800's, and now regarded with
> >>>> horror."
> >>>
> >>> I am drawing a distinction between practicing slavey sometime in history and practicing it right then and there. Yes many, most, all nations, civilizations through history practiced slavery. Similarly many nations, religions, tribes, practiced polygamy. And there is still polygamy in a few places on earth today. Or the death sentence for some criminals. Once widely practiced about everywhere. But less so today.
> >>
> >> Which is quite the opposite of what I wrote (:-)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> Naval action was important in the Revolution, from the Royal
> Navy's blockades to the French at Yorktown. Mahon covered
> this well:
>
> https://www.alibris.com/booksearch?title=Influence+of+Sea+Power+Upon+History%2C+1660-1783+%28Illustrated%29&keywordx=sea+power+mahon&author=Mahan%2C+Alfred+Thayer&authorx=
>
> USA boys once ate up stories of John Paul Jones:
> https://www.britannica.com/biography/John-Paul-Jones-United-States-naval-officer
>
> Now they are fixated on their telephones I assume.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971


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From: jef...@cruzio.com (Jeff Liebermann)
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Subject: Re: Heroin and bicycles
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 11:42:56 -0700
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 by: Jeff Liebermann - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 18:42 UTC

On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 13:04:15 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

(chomp)

>But had the North allowed the South to withdraw from the Union then
>the South would have been tremendously wealthy as Cotton really was
>King and in the period leading up to the war Southern exports of
>cotton were valued at more then all other exports combined. In 1815
>the U.S. produced something like 2/3rds of the world's cotton.

During the Civil War, Egypt was more than happy to provide England
with cotton.

"How the American Civil War Built Egypt’s Vaunted Cotton Industry and
Changed the Country Forever"
<https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-american-civil-war-built-egypts-vaunted-cotton-industry-and-changed-country-forever-180959967/>
"In 1861, Egypt had only exported 600,000 cantars of cotton (a
traditional measurement equal to about 100 pounds), but by 1863 it had
more than doubled this to almost 1.3 million cantars, the New York
Times reported at the time. By the end of the 19th century, Egypt
derived 93 percent of its export revenues from cotton..."

When the Civil War ended, things went downhill for Egypt:
"Additionally, the end of the American Civil War in 1865 led to a
steep fall in global cotton prices as the U.S. crop came back on the
market and proved particularly damaging for Egypt. It created a sharp
budget deficit and ultimately a declaration of national bankruptcy a
decade later."

In 1882, the British decided to secure its supply of Egyptian cotton
and simultaneously foreclose on the Egyptian national debt.

Trivia: When shopping for linen, the label "Egyptian Cotton" only
means that the plants originally came from Egypt in the distant past,
but were probably grown anywhere the world.
"What is Egyptian Cotton?"
<https://www.craneandcanopy.com/pages/101-what-is-egyptian-cotton>

More trivia: In the early 19th century, Sam Slater cloned various
machines used in British textile manufacture:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater>
Around 1798, he established a series of mills. He then proceeded to
manufacture cotton cloth and sell it domestically. His cloth failed
to sell and was generally rejected as "inferior" by the public. The
favored cloth of the day was Calico from India imported from England:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calico>
Egyptian cotton was 60 years in the future. It wasn't until after the
Civil War, that Americans finally conceded that domestic cotton was
tolerable.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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