On Thu, 05 May 2022 19:39:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 5/5/2022 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 May 2022 15:04:02 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/4/2022 10:41 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 4 May 2022 20:22:23 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>>>> <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 8:50:03 PM UTC-5, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 5:46:26 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Here's a really interesting fact:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I could not get the 27.2 carbon seatpost to go into the Merlin seat tube I tried several aluminum seat posts and had the same trouble. So I got a Richey 27.0 seatpost and it fits correctly. Now, there is no deformation of the seat tube and Merlin lists the seatpost as 27.2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you suppose that they normally ream the seat tube out to 27.2 and forgot to do that on this specific bike? After all, mistakes can be made and wouldn't it be a little silly to depend upon the seat tube to be exactly the correct dimension?
>>>>>> I'm sure mistakes can be made. Some people make many, and thus have so, so many problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to me any higher end bike shop, such as Andy's, would have frame tools. They could easily ream out the seattube to 27.2mm. But Tommy lives in Oakland, the Bay area, so he is out in the wilderness and there are NO high end bike shops within a day's drive of him. Poor Tommy. He will just have to learn to live with his problem and suffer.
>>>>
>>>> But why? Both 27mm and 27.2mm seat posts are available. Why not just
>>>> use the correct size that fits the existing frame. Amazon has both
>>>> sizes for about $15.00.
>>>> AND... for as little as $8.99 you can buy your very own set of digital
>>>> calipers to measure seat tubes with. Both I.D. and O.D.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Calipers are cheap. Meatware is a different matter.
>>>
>>> Seat tubes are commonly not round and often not the same
>>> size at the top as 50mm or 100mm in. Your average guy, new
>>> to measurement, will easily use his new caliper to take the
>>> wrong dimension (to two decimal places!!) draw the wrong
>>> conclusion and wreck the piece with a reamer. Sadly not an
>>> uncommon scenario.
>>>
>>> A better path would be to slip a 27.0mm post in it, see if
>>> there's play when inserted 100mm. That's a good indication
>>> you have a deformed seat tube top and not the 'wrong' size
>>> post. Much simpler than multiple snap gauge readings and
>>> fully adequate for a bicycle seatpost.
>>>
>>> https://www.ctemag.com/news/articles/measuring-snap
>>>
>>> Understatement of the year from that link, "My experience is
>>> that The L.S. Starrett Co. in Athol, Massachusetts, makes
>>> good stuff."
>>
>> At one time L.S. Starrett and Brown and Sharp were the only two
>> micrometers allowed in some of the better shops (:-)
>>
>
>I've never been disappointed with anything by Starrett
>(after the price shock ebbs).

Well, Massachusetts minimum wage is now $14.25 an hour and Japanese
Minimum wage is something like $8.00 an hour and Chinese minimum is as
high as $3.90/hour, in Beijing, and apparently as low as about half
that in other provinces.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 5/5/2022 8:19 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 05 May 2022 19:39:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 5/5/2022 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 05 May 2022 15:04:02 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/4/2022 10:41 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 4 May 2022 20:22:23 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>>>>> <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 8:50:03 PM UTC-5, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 5:46:26 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> Here's a really interesting fact:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I could not get the 27.2 carbon seatpost to go into the Merlin seat tube I tried several aluminum seat posts and had the same trouble. So I got a Richey 27.0 seatpost and it fits correctly. Now, there is no deformation of the seat tube and Merlin lists the seatpost as 27.2.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that they normally ream the seat tube out to 27.2 and forgot to do that on this specific bike? After all, mistakes can be made and wouldn't it be a little silly to depend upon the seat tube to be exactly the correct dimension?
>>>>>>> I'm sure mistakes can be made. Some people make many, and thus have so, so many problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems to me any higher end bike shop, such as Andy's, would have frame tools. They could easily ream out the seattube to 27.2mm. But Tommy lives in Oakland, the Bay area, so he is out in the wilderness and there are NO high end bike shops within a day's drive of him. Poor Tommy. He will just have to learn to live with his problem and suffer.
>>>>>
>>>>> But why? Both 27mm and 27.2mm seat posts are available. Why not just
>>>>> use the correct size that fits the existing frame. Amazon has both
>>>>> sizes for about $15.00.
>>>>> AND... for as little as $8.99 you can buy your very own set of digital
>>>>> calipers to measure seat tubes with. Both I.D. and O.D.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Calipers are cheap. Meatware is a different matter.
>>>>
>>>> Seat tubes are commonly not round and often not the same
>>>> size at the top as 50mm or 100mm in. Your average guy, new
>>>> to measurement, will easily use his new caliper to take the
>>>> wrong dimension (to two decimal places!!) draw the wrong
>>>> conclusion and wreck the piece with a reamer. Sadly not an
>>>> uncommon scenario.
>>>>
>>>> A better path would be to slip a 27.0mm post in it, see if
>>>> there's play when inserted 100mm. That's a good indication
>>>> you have a deformed seat tube top and not the 'wrong' size
>>>> post. Much simpler than multiple snap gauge readings and
>>>> fully adequate for a bicycle seatpost.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ctemag.com/news/articles/measuring-snap
>>>>
>>>> Understatement of the year from that link, "My experience is
>>>> that The L.S. Starrett Co. in Athol, Massachusetts, makes
>>>> good stuff."
>>>
>>> At one time L.S. Starrett and Brown and Sharp were the only two
>>> micrometers allowed in some of the better shops (:-)
>>>
>>
>> I've never been disappointed with anything by Starrett
>> (after the price shock ebbs).
>
> Well, Massachusetts minimum wage is now $14.25 an hour and Japanese
> Minimum wage is something like $8.00 an hour and Chinese minimum is as
> high as $3.90/hour, in Beijing, and apparently as low as about half
> that in other provinces.
>

I do own some very nice Mitutoyo tools, I'm not slighting
Japanese precision instruments. But Starrett really is
exceptional. I doubt minimum wage laws much affect price in
that category.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 05 May 2022 20:25:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 5/5/2022 8:19 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 May 2022 19:39:17 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/5/2022 7:22 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 05 May 2022 15:04:02 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/4/2022 10:41 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 4 May 2022 20:22:23 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
>>>>>> <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 8:50:03 PM UTC-5, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 5:46:26 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Here's a really interesting fact:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I could not get the 27.2 carbon seatpost to go into the Merlin seat tube I tried several aluminum seat posts and had the same trouble. So I got a Richey 27.0 seatpost and it fits correctly. Now, there is no deformation of the seat tube and Merlin lists the seatpost as 27.2.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do you suppose that they normally ream the seat tube out to 27.2 and forgot to do that on this specific bike? After all, mistakes can be made and wouldn't it be a little silly to depend upon the seat tube to be exactly the correct dimension?
>>>>>>>> I'm sure mistakes can be made. Some people make many, and thus have so, so many problems.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems to me any higher end bike shop, such as Andy's, would have frame tools. They could easily ream out the seattube to 27.2mm. But Tommy lives in Oakland, the Bay area, so he is out in the wilderness and there are NO high end bike shops within a day's drive of him. Poor Tommy. He will just have to learn to live with his problem and suffer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But why? Both 27mm and 27.2mm seat posts are available. Why not just
>>>>>> use the correct size that fits the existing frame. Amazon has both
>>>>>> sizes for about $15.00.
>>>>>> AND... for as little as $8.99 you can buy your very own set of digital
>>>>>> calipers to measure seat tubes with. Both I.D. and O.D.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Calipers are cheap. Meatware is a different matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seat tubes are commonly not round and often not the same
>>>>> size at the top as 50mm or 100mm in. Your average guy, new
>>>>> to measurement, will easily use his new caliper to take the
>>>>> wrong dimension (to two decimal places!!) draw the wrong
>>>>> conclusion and wreck the piece with a reamer. Sadly not an
>>>>> uncommon scenario.
>>>>>
>>>>> A better path would be to slip a 27.0mm post in it, see if
>>>>> there's play when inserted 100mm. That's a good indication
>>>>> you have a deformed seat tube top and not the 'wrong' size
>>>>> post. Much simpler than multiple snap gauge readings and
>>>>> fully adequate for a bicycle seatpost.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.ctemag.com/news/articles/measuring-snap
>>>>>
>>>>> Understatement of the year from that link, "My experience is
>>>>> that The L.S. Starrett Co. in Athol, Massachusetts, makes
>>>>> good stuff."
>>>>
>>>> At one time L.S. Starrett and Brown and Sharp were the only two
>>>> micrometers allowed in some of the better shops (:-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've never been disappointed with anything by Starrett
>>> (after the price shock ebbs).
>>
>> Well, Massachusetts minimum wage is now $14.25 an hour and Japanese
>> Minimum wage is something like $8.00 an hour and Chinese minimum is as
>> high as $3.90/hour, in Beijing, and apparently as low as about half
>> that in other provinces.
>>
>
>I do own some very nice Mitutoyo tools, I'm not slighting
>Japanese precision instruments. But Starrett really is
>exceptional. I doubt minimum wage laws much affect price in
>that category.

No but it may be an indication of relative costs (and therefore
relative sales prices :-)

Japanese tools, like all Japanese products have come a long way. I
remember the first Japanese micrometers that the A.F. issued. Good
looking and seemed to work well until one of my boys somehow got a
tiny bit of steel in the threads and the micrometer "locked up". Since
the thing was no good any more we clamped it in a vice and twisted the
thimble loose and found that neither the thimble or the sleeve were
hardened steel.

But the Japanese learn fast and I'm sure that today's tools are as
good as anyone else's.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 1:04:57 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/5/2022 3:41 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 4:17:31 p.m. UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 5/5/2022 1:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:07:55 AM UTC-7, Luns Tee wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 10:28:05 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 8:45:56 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> More probably someone tightened the seat binder sans post,
> >>>>>> deforming the top of the tube.
> >>>>> That was the first thing that occurred to me so I looked and it was overly tight for the entire insertion length. You should have seen me trying to get the 27.2 out to insert the 27.0. I did look at the cutout that allows the seat tube to collapse with the binder bolt. It was parallel Also the 26 slipped in normally all the way down the seat tube like a seat post usually does.
> >>>> It takes only a slight amount of deformation to interfere with insertion, slight enough there's no way to see it directly. If you look from behind the bike, the main deformation isn't of the tube ends closing in left/right, but rather of the corners of the tube folding forwards into the opening away from you. The binder bolt pinches at about 8mm away from the ~1mm tube wall, and the bending moment of the pinch force against this distance pushes the corners of the clamp forwards. With a seatpost in place, it resists this forward push, but without a seatpost, the tube end is easily deformed enough to cause trouble.
> >>> Well, as I said, there was no deformation in the seat tube with the clinch nut fully loosened. By eye it was perfectly round and multiple seatposts fit in without showing any out of round And the markings on the seat posts that had to be jammed into the whole were all the way around the seatpost. Any deformation of the seat tube would have shown as irregular scars on the seat posts.
> >>>
> >>> Think about it. Do you suppose that they make titanium tubing with exactly 27.2 mm ID? I more suspect that they don't worry too much about the ID and then simply bore the seat tube to the exact diameter.
> >>> "there was no deformation in the seat tube..."
> >>
> >> If there was no deformation of the seat tube, and if the
> >> bore were clean, your 27.2mm post would have slipped into a
> >> Merlin of its own weight.
> >> --
> >> Andrew Muzi
> >> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >
> > Back in the 1980's I read or was told that a well fitted seatpost would SLOWLY drop into a seattube when the seat binder bolt was loosened.
> >
> > Far too many people reach for a reamer, file or other cutting tool far too soon when faced with an overly snug seatpost.
> >
> > Another thing that I was told was that it could be quite risky to ream a thin walled 27.0mm seattube out to 27.2mm. Doing so could result in unduly thin seattube walls.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> In theory, no problem at all, assuming quality tube (which a
> 27.0 bore would be anyway). In practice, the setup for that
> is artful and guys do shoot reamers out the side of seat tubes.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

0.2 mm play is 'enormous' in that application.

Lou

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 4:06:06 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/5/2022 3:49 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 10:17:31 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 5/5/2022 1:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:07:55 AM UTC-7, Luns Tee wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 10:28:05 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 8:45:56 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> More probably someone tightened the seat binder sans post,
> >>>>>> deforming the top of the tube.
> >>>>> That was the first thing that occurred to me so I looked and it was overly tight for the entire insertion length. You should have seen me trying to get the 27.2 out to insert the 27.0. I did look at the cutout that allows the seat tube to collapse with the binder bolt. It was parallel Also the 26 slipped in normally all the way down the seat tube like a seat post usually does.
> >>>> It takes only a slight amount of deformation to interfere with insertion, slight enough there's no way to see it directly. If you look from behind the bike, the main deformation isn't of the tube ends closing in left/right, but rather of the corners of the tube folding forwards into the opening away from you. The binder bolt pinches at about 8mm away from the ~1mm tube wall, and the bending moment of the pinch force against this distance pushes the corners of the clamp forwards. With a seatpost in place, it resists this forward push, but without a seatpost, the tube end is easily deformed enough to cause trouble.
> >>> Well, as I said, there was no deformation in the seat tube with the clinch nut fully loosened. By eye it was perfectly round and multiple seatposts fit in without showing any out of round And the markings on the seat posts that had to be jammed into the whole were all the way around the seatpost. Any deformation of the seat tube would have shown as irregular scars on the seat posts.
> >>>
> >>> Think about it. Do you suppose that they make titanium tubing with exactly 27.2 mm ID? I more suspect that they don't worry too much about the ID and then simply bore the seat tube to the exact diameter.
> >>> "there was no deformation in the seat tube..."
> >>
> >> If there was no deformation of the seat tube, and if the
> >> bore were clean, your 27.2mm post would have slipped into a
> >> Merlin of its own weight.
> >> --
> >
> > If the bore is exactly 27.2 mm and round a seatpost of exactly 27.2 mm and round would not ‘fit’. You need some play in the order of 0.03 mm.
> >
> > Lou
> >
>
> Yes that's true. For bicycle purposes seat tube bores are
> slightly oversize.

Uh, think about that. What with someone saying that the seatpost should slide in of its own weight - .03 mm is a thousands of an inch and there's NO seatpost that is so accurate that it would be able to slide into the seat tube of its own weight with a thousandths clearance! Even with the 8 thou clearance of the 27.0 the Ritchey seatpost wouldn't "slip" in.

On 5/6/2022 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 4:06:06 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 5/5/2022 3:49 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 10:17:31 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 5/5/2022 1:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:07:55 AM UTC-7, Luns Tee wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 10:28:05 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 8:45:56 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> More probably someone tightened the seat binder sans post,
>>>>>>>> deforming the top of the tube.
>>>>>>> That was the first thing that occurred to me so I looked and it was overly tight for the entire insertion length. You should have seen me trying to get the 27.2 out to insert the 27.0. I did look at the cutout that allows the seat tube to collapse with the binder bolt. It was parallel Also the 26 slipped in normally all the way down the seat tube like a seat post usually does.
>>>>>> It takes only a slight amount of deformation to interfere with insertion, slight enough there's no way to see it directly. If you look from behind the bike, the main deformation isn't of the tube ends closing in left/right, but rather of the corners of the tube folding forwards into the opening away from you. The binder bolt pinches at about 8mm away from the ~1mm tube wall, and the bending moment of the pinch force against this distance pushes the corners of the clamp forwards. With a seatpost in place, it resists this forward push, but without a seatpost, the tube end is easily deformed enough to cause trouble.
>>>>> Well, as I said, there was no deformation in the seat tube with the clinch nut fully loosened. By eye it was perfectly round and multiple seatposts fit in without showing any out of round And the markings on the seat posts that had to be jammed into the whole were all the way around the seatpost. Any deformation of the seat tube would have shown as irregular scars on the seat posts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Think about it. Do you suppose that they make titanium tubing with exactly 27.2 mm ID? I more suspect that they don't worry too much about the ID and then simply bore the seat tube to the exact diameter.
>>>>> "there was no deformation in the seat tube..."
>>>>
>>>> If there was no deformation of the seat tube, and if the
>>>> bore were clean, your 27.2mm post would have slipped into a
>>>> Merlin of its own weight.
>>>> --
>>>
>>> If the bore is exactly 27.2 mm and round a seatpost of exactly 27.2 mm and round would not ‘fit’. You need some play in the order of 0.03 mm.
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>>
>> Yes that's true. For bicycle purposes seat tube bores are
>> slightly oversize.
>
> Uh, think about that. What with someone saying that the seatpost should slide in of its own weight - .03 mm is a thousands of an inch and there's NO seatpost that is so accurate that it would be able to slide into the seat tube of its own weight with a thousandths clearance! Even with the 8 thou clearance of the 27.0 the Ritchey seatpost wouldn't "slip" in.
>

They do when dry and clean.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 9:45:15 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/6/2022 8:04 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 4:06:06 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 5/5/2022 3:49 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 10:17:31 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 5/5/2022 1:18 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:07:55 AM UTC-7, Luns Tee wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 10:28:05 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 8:45:56 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> More probably someone tightened the seat binder sans post,
> >>>>>>>> deforming the top of the tube.
> >>>>>>> That was the first thing that occurred to me so I looked and it was overly tight for the entire insertion length. You should have seen me trying to get the 27.2 out to insert the 27.0. I did look at the cutout that allows the seat tube to collapse with the binder bolt. It was parallel Also the 26 slipped in normally all the way down the seat tube like a seat post usually does.
> >>>>>> It takes only a slight amount of deformation to interfere with insertion, slight enough there's no way to see it directly. If you look from behind the bike, the main deformation isn't of the tube ends closing in left/right, but rather of the corners of the tube folding forwards into the opening away from you. The binder bolt pinches at about 8mm away from the ~1mm tube wall, and the bending moment of the pinch force against this distance pushes the corners of the clamp forwards. With a seatpost in place, it resists this forward push, but without a seatpost, the tube end is easily deformed enough to cause trouble.
> >>>>> Well, as I said, there was no deformation in the seat tube with the clinch nut fully loosened. By eye it was perfectly round and multiple seatposts fit in without showing any out of round And the markings on the seat posts that had to be jammed into the whole were all the way around the seatpost. Any deformation of the seat tube would have shown as irregular scars on the seat posts.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Think about it. Do you suppose that they make titanium tubing with exactly 27.2 mm ID? I more suspect that they don't worry too much about the ID and then simply bore the seat tube to the exact diameter.
> >>>>> "there was no deformation in the seat tube..."
> >>>>
> >>>> If there was no deformation of the seat tube, and if the
> >>>> bore were clean, your 27.2mm post would have slipped into a
> >>>> Merlin of its own weight.
> >>>> --
> >>>
> >>> If the bore is exactly 27.2 mm and round a seatpost of exactly 27.2 mm and round would not ‘fit’. You need some play in the order of 0.03 mm.
> >>>
> >>> Lou
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yes that's true. For bicycle purposes seat tube bores are
> >> slightly oversize.
> >
> > Uh, think about that. What with someone saying that the seatpost should slide in of its own weight - .03 mm is a thousands of an inch and there's NO seatpost that is so accurate that it would be able to slide into the seat tube of its own weight with a thousandths clearance! Even with the 8 thou clearance of the 27.0 the Ritchey seatpost wouldn't "slip" in.
> >
> They do when dry and clean.

Well, I've never seen one that would. Though using the exception of "dry and clean" does seem to be stretching thing don't you think? You couldn't have it clean if there were every a prior seatpost. At least in my experience. None of my other bikes have offered any excessive force to insert the seatpost. Well, let me correct that. That titanium seatpost I had would not insert but it was .3 mm out of round.