A long time ago some members of this group convinced me keyless drill
chucks were the way to go. The seemed to work ok on the face of it and
even though the air I bought were pretty cheap they were better made and
more concentric than any keyed chuck I owned at the time. American or
import. The thing is in some ways they weren't better. I still spun a
drill once in a while and they self tightened with bigger drills and
heavy loads pretty badly. More so on the drill press if I put some
elbow grease into the armstrong lever to keep good chips cutting. I got
in the habit of keeping a couple pairs of slip joint water pump pliers
on the work bench. The chucks holes for tommy bars in the chuck body
and in the ring, but pliers are bigger and harder to misplace.

I acquired (not sure where exactly) a couple half inch shank keyless
mini chucks. I think they are integral, but I'm not 100% sure. They
actually worked pretty good and I never recall having any issue with
them at all. I also never used them with drills 1/8 or larger. I
actually put them in 1/2 inch tool holders on the Hurco mill and always
hand tightened them off the machine. Grip the tool holder and the chuck
with opposite hands and twist. Never a problem... with small drills.

I figured the hand tighten was just a function of tiny drills, but a few
weeks (or months) I discovered if I held the taper in my hand I was able
tot tighten drill chuck better both keyless and keyed than if they were
mounted in the tail stock taper. Even if I locked the tailstock. Hard
drill still requires a little extra umph to make sure they don't spin,
but it was easier when held in my hand.

Then I got what is probably the best drill chuck I own last year. When
I ordered the new mill I ordered some new tool holding to go with it. I
gave all my R* stuff to the guy who bought my RF30 several years ago, so
I needed new R8 stuff for the new South Bend. I financed the machine,
but I didn't want to buy tooling form that vendor, so I had to pay cash
for that stuff. I went to Shars to see what they have. Yeah I know
Shars is an import vendor, but all lot of the stuff with a name on it
and I've gotten pretty good at figurig out what their good stuff is.
I've got Vises, height setters, and some inside micrometers (with
carbide pins) from them that are useful every day in my shop. Anyway.
I bought an Integra with an R8 shank. This thing is crazy concentric.
I've only indicated the tool at a couple diameters, but less than a
thousandths at any diameter I have checked. Here is the thing. It
comes with a spanner. I hand tighten a tool without pulling it out of
the spindle, lay my hand on the spindle break and give it a modest (No
reefing required) snug with the spanner and its ready to go. No
spinning and it also does not seem to self tighten. A couple months ago
making a 3 Pt multi hitch (drops into my quick hitch) for the tractor I
had to punch some decent size holes in steel tube and steel plate. At
one point i was putting some weight on a 1 inch drill to keep cutting
real chips. I knew it was going to self tighten, but it didn't. One
hand on the spindle brake and a modest to firm push on the spanner and
it loosened right up.

I still use a fair number of Jabobs style drill chucks with the splined
drive key, but I tend now to just leave common drill sizes reefed down
hard in those for use on the lathe and have morse taper drills (some in
adapter sleeves) for the most common sizes. I ordered a couple (no
name) keyless integral chucks with an MT4 taper for the lathe just on a
whim the other day. In the picture they looked just like the Integra,
but with an MT4 shank and a black chuck finish instead of the silver
satin finish of the Integra. They look like they could have been made
by the apprentices at the same shop that made the Integra. The are
smooth, but not as smooth. The are decently finish, but not finely
finished. I tried them out of the lathe and they work for heavy
drilling and light drilling as well as the Integra works on the mill.
The Integra came in a box with a spanner. These came in a plastic bag
without a spanner, but the Integra spanner is a perfect match. The
Integra and these new ones only have holes in the chuck body.

Was there a point to this post... well maybe that many "keyless" chucks
aren't really keyless. Even good ones. Other than that this was just a
ramble of random experience acquired over a few years which may contain
a nugget or two. Maybe also that generally with my limited experiences
the integral shank keyless chucks seem to work better than those that
mount on a Jacobs taper.

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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:sujfo9$1iau$1@gioia.aioe.org...
....
Was there a point to this post... well maybe that many "keyless" chucks
aren't really keyless. Even good ones. Other than that this was just a
ramble of random experience acquired over a few years which may contain
a nugget or two. Maybe also that generally with my limited experiences
the integral shank keyless chucks seem to work better than those that
mount on a Jacobs taper.
----------------------------

How would you compare them to ball bearing Jacobs chucks?

On 2/17/2022 4:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:sujfo9$1iau$1@gioia.aioe.org... ...
> Was there a point to this post... well maybe that many "keyless" chucks
> aren't really keyless.  Even good ones.  Other than that this was just a
> ramble of random experience acquired over a few years which may contain
> a nugget or two.  Maybe also that generally with my limited experiences
> the integral shank keyless chucks seem to work better than those that
> mount on a Jacobs taper.
> ----------------------------
>
> How would you compare them to ball bearing Jacobs chucks?

I don't know. Send me one and I'll let you know.

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On Thu, 17 Feb 2022 13:52:54 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote
as underneath :

>On 2/17/2022 4:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:sujfo9$1iau$1@gioia.aioe.org... ...
>> Was there a point to this post... well maybe that many "keyless" chucks
>> aren't really keyless.  Even good ones.  Other than that this was just a
>> ramble of random experience acquired over a few years which may contain
>> a nugget or two.  Maybe also that generally with my limited experiences
>> the integral shank keyless chucks seem to work better than those that
>> mount on a Jacobs taper.
>> ----------------------------
>>
>> How would you compare them to ball bearing Jacobs chucks?
>
>I don't know. Send me one and I'll let you know.

Had poor experience with keyless especially where there is heavy
vibration, as a result I can never ever trust them, Jacobs or any other!
Just impossible to judge how hard tight they are without a proper
mechanical key.
C+

On 2/17/2022 1:52 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 2/17/2022 4:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:sujfo9$1iau$1@gioia.aioe.org... ...
>> Was there a point to this post... well maybe that many "keyless"
>> chucks aren't really keyless.  Even good ones.  Other than that this
>> was just a ramble of random experience acquired over a few years which
>> may contain a nugget or two.  Maybe also that generally with my
>> limited experiences the integral shank keyless chucks seem to work
>> better than those that mount on a Jacobs taper.
>> ----------------------------
>>
>> How would you compare them to ball bearing Jacobs chucks?
>
> I don't know.  Send me one and I'll let you know.
>

Seriously though I don't know. I have a couple Jacobs chucks, but no
high dollar ball bearing chucks. The Jacobs feel nice, but other than
being a little cleaner built than "some" of the import chucks I have
they are not inherently better by design.

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On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 9:27:54 AM UTC-6, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 2/17/2022 1:52 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> > On 2/17/2022 4:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> >> "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:sujfo9$1iau$1...@gioia.aioe.org... ...
> >> Was there a point to this post... well maybe that many "keyless"
> >> chucks aren't really keyless. Even good ones. Other than that this
> >> was just a ramble of random experience acquired over a few years which
> >> may contain a nugget or two. Maybe also that generally with my
> >> limited experiences the integral shank keyless chucks seem to work
> >> better than those that mount on a Jacobs taper.
> >> ----------------------------
> >>
> >> How would you compare them to ball bearing Jacobs chucks?
> >
> > I don't know. Send me one and I'll let you know.
> >
> Seriously though I don't know. I have a couple Jacobs chucks, but no
> high dollar ball bearing chucks. The Jacobs feel nice, but other than
> being a little cleaner built than "some" of the import chucks I have
> they are not inherently better by design.
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com

Well, I have some experience here, albeit from a pure hobby perspective.
I started out with basic chucks, Jacobs and others. They worked ok, but some times slipped no matter how hard I cranked that key.
When I bought some auction lots I was delighted to find a Albrecht keyless chuck. So I put it to work. It was great on small drills, but anything bigger than 1/4" would self-tighten. I mostly went back to the older plain chucks.
Then I got a couple of Jacobs Ball-Bearing Super Chucks - 14N, 18N. Those work like a champ. They tighten down hard with normal hand-torque, and realize with ease. Never had a slippage.

So right now I have Super Chucks on all my machines. I have three Albrechts rolling around in the tool cabinet.
I think I have a Jacobs keyless also. Looks nice, but I haven't spent any time testing it.

"Rex Burkheimer" wrote in message
news:2a896e38-b7f6-4c8a-ae51-d2b24d87a327n@googlegroups.com...

Well, I have some experience here, albeit from a pure hobby perspective.
I started out with basic chucks, Jacobs and others. They worked ok, but some
times slipped no matter how hard I cranked that key.
When I bought some auction lots I was delighted to find a Albrecht keyless
chuck. So I put it to work. It was great on small drills, but anything
bigger than 1/4" would self-tighten. I mostly went back to the older plain
chucks.
Then I got a couple of Jacobs Ball-Bearing Super Chucks - 14N, 18N. Those
work like a champ. They tighten down hard with normal hand-torque, and
realize with ease. Never had a slippage.

So right now I have Super Chucks on all my machines. I have three Albrechts
rolling around in the tool cabinet.
I think I have a Jacobs keyless also. Looks nice, but I haven't spent any
time testing it.

-----------

Thanks.

My machines are too "experienced" to run exactly true but I've seen the same
holding performance with Jacobs plain and ball-bearing and Albrecht and
other keyless chucks. I have 8-1/2N, 11N and 14N Super Chucks for the mill
and use the others on the less well centered lathe. I reamed their tapered
spindle bores only enough to remove dings and improve the grip, and didn't
risk making them less instead of more centered.

I had a problem with larger bits slipping in their crimped-on hex shanks so
I tried machining the 1/4" hex on spare round shank drill bits. They cut
easily with HSS lathe bits and end mills.

When working on a ladder hex shank bits are less liable to be dropped into
the grass or bushes. I usually climb with both hands free and then haul my
tools up in a bucket, in which small loose items are hard to find under the
larger stuff. HF sells a 1/16" - 1/2" hex shank drill set in a clearly
labeled case. Even if the bits are junk I would have bought it for the case,
which I hadn't found elsewhere.

On 3/5/2022 5:55 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

> When working on a ladder hex shank bits are less liable to be dropped
> into the grass or bushes. I usually climb with both hands free and then
> haul my tools up in a bucket, in which small loose items are hard to
> find under the larger stuff. HF sells a 1/16" - 1/2" hex shank drill set
> in a clearly labeled case. Even if the bits are junk I would have bought
> it for the case, which I hadn't found elsewhere.

I used bucket bag organizers for a couple decades as an
installer/contractor. I kept a clip on drill holster and mini clip on
tool pouch in the bucket bag. It didn't always save me from having to
run up and down the ladder, but it saved me thousands of trips back to
the truck. As an installer I twisted off more drills than I had slip.
Always carried Makita and Milwaukee drill motors and rotary hammers.
(hammer drills too) Its a little annoying when I have to go back to the
truck for another 6 foot installer bit because they last one caught a
nail in a firebreak and its now stuck permanently inside the wall
twisted off just short enough I can't get the drill chuck back on it. I
hardly ever hauled the whole bucket up the ladder for regular work. Of
course doing work on the roof I hauled lots of things up. I love
parapet walls for hiding conduit.

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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t007d0$a0k$1@dont-email.me...

On 3/5/2022 5:55 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

> When working on a ladder hex shank bits are less liable to be dropped into
> the grass or bushes. I usually climb with both hands free and then haul my
> tools up in a bucket, in which small loose items are hard to find under
> the larger stuff. HF sells a 1/16" - 1/2" hex shank drill set in a clearly
> labeled case. Even if the bits are junk I would have bought it for the
> case, which I hadn't found elsewhere.

I used bucket bag organizers for a couple decades as an
installer/contractor. I kept a clip on drill holster and mini clip on
tool pouch in the bucket bag. It didn't always save me from having to
run up and down the ladder, but it saved me thousands of trips back to
the truck. As an installer I twisted off more drills than I had slip.
Always carried Makita and Milwaukee drill motors and rotary hammers.
(hammer drills too) Its a little annoying when I have to go back to the
truck for another 6 foot installer bit because they last one caught a
nail in a firebreak and its now stuck permanently inside the wall
twisted off just short enough I can't get the drill chuck back on it. I
hardly ever hauled the whole bucket up the ladder for regular work. Of
course doing work on the roof I hauled lots of things up. I love
parapet walls for hiding conduit.

------------------------

If I did the same job repeatedly I'd have it sorted out and know which of my
many tool belts and pouch bags to use, but each problem is new or a better
way to solve an old one. My last ladder job was installing gutters for an
elderly neighbor, using a mix of unmatched parts that were all we could find
at HD, Lowe's and the local hardware store. We had to figure out something
different at each step and I kept going back home for another tool.

More and more I like Japanese-style pull saws to make precise cuts freehand,
the PVC gutter sections for instance. The Marples is my favorite.
https://www.irwin.com/tools/handsaws/dovetaildetail-saw
https://www.amazon.com/Shark-10-2204-Dowel-Dovetail-Detail/dp/B00004TBPU
"Power Source Ac/dc"

On 3/5/2022 5:36 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t007d0$a0k$1@dont-email.me...
>
> On 3/5/2022 5:55 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
>> When working on a ladder hex shank bits are less liable to be dropped
>> into the grass or bushes. I usually climb with both hands free and
>> then haul my tools up in a bucket, in which small loose items are hard
>> to find under the larger stuff. HF sells a 1/16" - 1/2" hex shank
>> drill set in a clearly labeled case. Even if the bits are junk I would
>> have bought it for the case, which I hadn't found elsewhere.
>
>
> I used bucket bag organizers for a couple decades as an
> installer/contractor.  I kept a clip on drill holster and mini clip on
> tool pouch in the bucket bag.  It didn't always save me from having to
> run up and down the ladder, but it saved me thousands of trips back to
> the truck.  As an installer I twisted off more drills than I had slip.
> Always carried Makita and Milwaukee drill motors and rotary hammers.
> (hammer drills too)  Its a little annoying when I have to go back to the
> truck for another 6 foot installer bit because they last one caught a
> nail in a firebreak and its now stuck permanently inside the wall
> twisted off just short enough I can't get the drill chuck back on it.  I
> hardly ever hauled the whole bucket up the ladder for regular work.  Of
> course doing work on the roof I hauled lots of things up.  I love
> parapet walls for hiding conduit.
>
> ------------------------
>
> If I did the same job repeatedly I'd have it sorted out and know which
> of my many tool belts and pouch bags to use, but each problem is new or
> a better way to solve an old one. My last ladder job was installing
> gutters for an elderly neighbor, using a mix of unmatched parts that
> were all we could find at HD, Lowe's and the local hardware store. We
> had to figure out something different at each step and I kept going back
> home for another tool.

Fortunately I kept a well stocked service truck. For service and repair
work I rarely had to go back to the office for parts or tools. For new
installations since I was the one who sold tthe job I pretty much always
had all the materials on hand before I started. Home Depot is not a
real hardware store. Lowes tends to be slightly worse. Unfortunately
there don't seem to be any real hardware stores left around here. A few
independent franchise stores are left, but they look more like miniature
home improvement stores than real hardware stores these days.

Usually for service work I would think about the job on the way, by the
time I got there I knew what tools and materials to load the bucket with
besides the standard stuff that never came out of the bucket.

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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t02u9p$u39$1@dont-email.me...

Fortunately I kept a well stocked service truck. For service and repair
work I rarely had to go back to the office for parts or tools. For new
installations since I was the one who sold tthe job I pretty much always
had all the materials on hand before I started. Home Depot is not a
real hardware store. Lowes tends to be slightly worse. Unfortunately
there don't seem to be any real hardware stores left around here. A few
independent franchise stores are left, but they look more like miniature
home improvement stores than real hardware stores these days.

Usually for service work I would think about the job on the way, by the
time I got there I knew what tools and materials to load the bucket with
besides the standard stuff that never came out of the bucket.
------------------------

I was never fortunate enough to work for someone as well organized as you.
Often I was sent out blind, on the assumption I'd figure out the problem and
a solution when I got there. When my neighbor has a problem I can't fix,
like his cable or gas heat, the service man is usually sent out that way
too.

I wish I had a photo of me in my wizard costume repairing a 2-way radio in
the medieval setting of a Renaissance fair.

On 3/6/2022 3:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t02u9p$u39$1@dont-email.me...
>
> Fortunately I kept a well stocked service truck.  For service and repair
> work I rarely had to go back to the office for parts or tools.  For new
> installations since I was the one who sold tthe job I pretty much always
> had all the materials on hand before I started.  Home Depot is not a
> real hardware store.  Lowes tends to be slightly worse.  Unfortunately
> there don't seem to be any real hardware stores left around here.  A few
> independent franchise stores are left, but they look more like miniature
> home improvement stores than real hardware stores these days.
>
> Usually for service work I would think about the job on the way, by the
> time I got there I knew what tools and materials to load the bucket with
> besides the standard stuff that never came out of the bucket.
> ------------------------
>
> I was never fortunate enough to work for someone as well organized as
> you. Often I was sent out blind, on the assumption I'd figure out the
> problem and a solution when I got there. When my neighbor has a problem
> I can't fix, like his cable or gas heat, the service man is usually sent
> out that way too.
>
> I wish I had a photo of me in my wizard costume repairing a 2-way radio
> in the medieval setting of a Renaissance fair.

LOL.

Well, as an owner/tech I was very conscious of the fact that time is
money. Not so much for T&M trouble shooting (sometimes), but big time
on new installs. At one time I was doing all the communication cabling
for a school district. I would bid a job based on how long I felt it
would take the average technician to do the job. Then I would think
ahead and try to figure out how to work smarter. Things like pull huge
network bundles all at once, and just not worry about wasted wire. Then
split the bundles and cut off more than needed reach the destination at
branch points. I might throw away several thousand feet of wire on a
modestly large job, and I would save thousands of dollars worth of time.
I didn't do "rushed" work either. Every year up until the forced bid
level all got all their work. They wanted me to do it all because they
just didn't have problems with it. There were days when I was making
making 500-800 an hour. Of course being self employed there were days
when I was losing money per hour too.

It used to drive me bonkers that guys working for me couldn't grasp that
they should be thinking about my jobs while driving to the job. If I am
paying for their time they should be thinking about my jobs. Not
sending coded love notes back and forth on their pagers or rocking out
mindlessly to the truck radio.

A few got it. Back when I was doing a huge volume of TVRO work I wrote
our installation manual and a trouble shooting guide because the
provider's manuals were crap. I had one guy who did trouble calls
besides myself. We were so efficient at it that we were doing the
service calls for all the different installing companies. My guy
cleared 50% of the service calls on the phone. This was for customers
that the service provider was not able to talk through on the phone. We
got paid a minimum flat rate plus mileage and extras for clearing
service tickets. He made me some serious money. The provider got mad
at us and wanted to cut the rate if we didn't go to the site. I said,
"Ok let your phone support people clear those tickets then. I've got a
top guy and he deserves to be paid for it." A few years later I found
out the provider had managed to steal one of my manuals and they were
giving copies of it to their own people. LOL.

Anyway, time is money.

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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t03krs$91a$1@dont-email.me...
....
Anyway, time is money.

-----------------------

Speaking of which, do you make molds for rubber or plastic antique car or
machinery restoration parts, like electrical insulators or hydraulic seals?

The only such mold I've made was for the rubber hammer button on a Teletype.

I discovered when rebuilding some leaky porta power clone cylinders that the
seals were non-cataloged specials, which I was told is the norm for Asian
imports. I was able to modify the pistons to accept standard sized seals.

Loving your chat, Jim and Bob.
From here at "Leigh Quay Boat Services". Never got anywhere near that
level of organisation when working on the "GSVenus".

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lypmmy5k75.fsf@void.com...

Loving your chat, Jim and Bob.
From here at "Leigh Quay Boat Services". Never got anywhere near that
level of organisation when working on the "GSVenus".

------------------

I've rarely seen effective organization. More often the place was run like
an art colony, everyone doing their own thing with minimal interference. For
engineers that's paradise but it's not a good omen for the company's
survival.

I think the best managers I've seen were theatre directors whose task is to
coax maximum effort from their tiring actors for 12-14 hours a day. After
the set I built was in place on stage I'd sit with them to watch for and
correct problems, and observe their methods.

The musical "A Chorus Line" demonstrates this, with the director being
tactful and persuasive and his assistant being very strict and demanding,
the Good Cop/Bad Cop approach. In "42nd Street" the director takes both
approaches as needed. Your 2019 British film of it with Tom Lister, Clare
Halse and Emma Caffrey is excellent.

Dean Kamen had an arrangement with Segway to not steal their employees to
Deka, so I was disqualified from working for him.

On 3/6/2022 7:20 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t03krs$91a$1@dont-email.me...
> ...
> Anyway, time is money.
>
> -----------------------
>
> Speaking of which, do you make molds for rubber or plastic antique car
> or machinery restoration parts, like electrical insulators or hydraulic
> seals?
>
> The only such mold I've made was for the rubber hammer button on a
> Teletype.
>
> I discovered when rebuilding some leaky porta power clone cylinders that
> the seals were non-cataloged specials, which I was told is the norm for
> Asian imports. I was able to modify the pistons to accept standard sized
> seals.
>

There are a fair number of urethane and silicone rubber and hard
"casting" resins that may be a better choice for one off or very small
production of various replacement parts than having a custom mold made
one off. They can't replace all commercial parts, but they can handle
many. The key (and often the hard part) to making cast molds to make
cast parts is often the need for a quality master to start from. I have
done a little of that kind of work, but its not really in my commercial
skills.

Primarily I machine aluminum low pressure injection molds and casting
molds for soft plastic fishing lures and cast lead fishing lures. I've
done a few high pressure embossing dies in medium hard steels, and
recently I picked up a customer who does small production run hard
plastic (polypropylene) injection for toys and toy accessories. I've
done some molds that were used for silicone injection, but I'm not
familiar with the exact process the customer used for their parts.

Since picking up the toy mold jobs I've started working on hard plastic
injection molds for two part hard fishing lures using ABS and
polycarbonate. I've got a tiny lever operated injection machine (1.1
cubic inches), but I suspect I'll need something with a little more
tonnage for the surface area of some parts I want to make.

I could maybe help with some of your problems, but the cost would
probably be out of your budget. You might want to atleast learn
something of making molds and parts from fluid resins and fluid media
before deciding if its worth hiring out the kind of work I do. One of
the big issues here is viscosity and trapped air. Also, working time
can be quite short. There are generally two ways people deal with
trapped air. Pressure and vacuum. The most common thing used by garage
shop guys is a pressure or vacuum pot about the size of a large paint
bucket. Pressure seems to be favored by some because vacuum can be
quite messy as the air bubbles out of your resin.

There are a number of videos on YouTube of people making parts this way.
Many are hack jobs, but you can still learn from them. The guy with
the talking sock puppet annoys the heck out of me, but he has spent some
time doing this sort of part making. I seem to recall that you do not
have high speed Internet. Your local public library may have a computer
area you can use, or you can take your laptop (if it has appropriate
security software installed) over to a coffee shop during one of their
slower times of day. After you have a firm grasp of basic processes
then its time to contact some manufacturers and see about product
properties for your application.

If you have a parts that "needs" to be a heat vulcanized rubber then its
probably out of the reach of basic garage shop work. I think other
resins will fill most needs though.

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On 3/7/2022 5:48 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Richard Smith"  wrote in message news:lypmmy5k75.fsf@void.com...
>
> Loving your chat, Jim and Bob.
> From here at "Leigh Quay Boat Services".  Never got anywhere near that
> level of organisation when working on the "GSVenus".
>
> ------------------
>
> I've rarely seen effective organization. More often the place was run
> like an art colony, everyone doing their own thing with minimal
> interference. For engineers that's paradise but it's not a good omen for
> the company's survival.
>
> I think the best managers I've seen were theatre directors whose task is
> to coax maximum effort from their tiring actors for 12-14 hours a day.
> After the set I built was in place on stage I'd sit with them to watch
> for and correct problems, and observe their methods.
>
> The musical "A Chorus Line" demonstrates this, with the director being
> tactful and persuasive and his assistant being very strict and
> demanding, the Good Cop/Bad Cop approach. In "42nd Street" the director
> takes both approaches as needed. Your 2019 British film of it with Tom
> Lister, Clare Halse and Emma Caffrey is excellent.
>
> Dean Kamen had an arrangement with Segway to not steal their employees
> to Deka, so I was disqualified from working for him.

There is some value in letting engineers run wild. While I despise
Goggle's meddling in politics and social engineering they did a lot of
exactly that. Let groups run wild with pet projects. Then when there
was something there they reined it in, cleaned it up, and monetized it.
Sketchup, Google documents (cloud services), YouTube, etc etc etc....

Kind of like breeding horses. Isolate separate groups with desirable
traits and inbreed them. Dispose of the ones that have flipper hooves
and a fifth leg growing out of their forehead, and cross breed the rest
with those with desirable traits from another group.

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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t059ju$1di1$1@gioia.aioe.org...

There are a fair number of urethane and silicone rubber and hard
"casting" resins that may be a better choice for one off or very small
production of various replacement parts than having a custom mold made
one off. They can't replace all commercial parts, but they can handle
many. The key (and often the hard part) to making cast molds to make
cast parts is often the need for a quality master to start from. I have
done a little of that kind of work, but its not really in my commercial
skills.

Primarily I machine aluminum low pressure injection molds and casting
molds for soft plastic fishing lures and cast lead fishing lures. I've
done a few high pressure embossing dies in medium hard steels, and
recently I picked up a customer who does small production run hard
plastic (polypropylene) injection for toys and toy accessories. I've
done some molds that were used for silicone injection, but I'm not
familiar with the exact process the customer used for their parts.

Since picking up the toy mold jobs I've started working on hard plastic
injection molds for two part hard fishing lures using ABS and
polycarbonate. I've got a tiny lever operated injection machine (1.1
cubic inches), but I suspect I'll need something with a little more
tonnage for the surface area of some parts I want to make.

I could maybe help with some of your problems, but the cost would
probably be out of your budget. You might want to atleast learn
something of making molds and parts from fluid resins and fluid media
before deciding if its worth hiring out the kind of work I do. One of
the big issues here is viscosity and trapped air. Also, working time
can be quite short. There are generally two ways people deal with
trapped air. Pressure and vacuum. The most common thing used by garage
shop guys is a pressure or vacuum pot about the size of a large paint
bucket. Pressure seems to be favored by some because vacuum can be
quite messy as the air bubbles out of your resin.

There are a number of videos on YouTube of people making parts this way.
Many are hack jobs, but you can still learn from them. The guy with
the talking sock puppet annoys the heck out of me, but he has spent some
time doing this sort of part making. I seem to recall that you do not
have high speed Internet. Your local public library may have a computer
area you can use, or you can take your laptop (if it has appropriate
security software installed) over to a coffee shop during one of their
slower times of day. After you have a firm grasp of basic processes
then its time to contact some manufacturers and see about product
properties for your application.

If you have a parts that "needs" to be a heat vulcanized rubber then its
probably out of the reach of basic garage shop work. I think other
resins will fill most needs though.

----------------
I now have a 10GB per month cellular Internet service.

"...vacuum can be quite messy as the air bubbles out of your resin."

Oh, I know. I spent an afternoon chipping epoxy spills out of my second-hand
vacuum oven. Replacing the electrical feedthru with a solid pipe plug cured
its leak and the door gasket is still good.

Typically the old brittle parts I want to replace are round, like grommets
and connector boots, amenable to semi-precision lathe work. I'm considering
two opposed pistons in an open tube such as a drum brake wheel cylinder,
optionally with vacuum connected to the fluid port. The rubber or plastic
could be a slug of correct weight or volume that will be compressed hot into
final shape between the piston mold halves. Sliding the cylinder would move
the port clear of the part, avoiding a sprue. After the mold cools the
pistons and part can be pressed out one end and separated. I think that will
bypass the complexity of DIY injection molding.

Can you suggest a suitable rubber compound from experience? I can't find my
Durometer to check a sample. Car radiator hose is about the right hardness,
maybe around 50.

On 3/7/2022 12:24 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t059ju$1di1$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>
> There are a fair number of urethane and silicone rubber and hard
> "casting" resins that may be a better choice for one off or very small
> production of various replacement parts than having a custom mold made
> one off.  They can't replace all commercial parts, but they can handle
> many.  The key (and often the hard part) to making cast molds to make
> cast parts is often the need for a quality master to start from.  I have
> done a little of that kind of work, but its not really in my commercial
> skills.
>
> Primarily I machine aluminum low pressure injection molds and casting
> molds for soft plastic fishing lures and cast lead fishing lures.  I've
> done a few high pressure embossing dies in medium hard steels, and
> recently I picked up a customer who does small production run hard
> plastic (polypropylene) injection for toys and toy accessories.  I've
> done some molds that were used for silicone injection, but I'm not
> familiar with the exact process the customer used for their parts.
>
> Since picking up the toy mold jobs I've started working on hard plastic
> injection molds for two part hard fishing lures using ABS and
> polycarbonate.  I've got a tiny lever operated injection machine (1.1
> cubic inches), but I suspect I'll need something with a little more
> tonnage for the surface area of some parts I want to make.
>
> I could maybe help with some of your problems, but the cost would
> probably be out of your budget.  You might want to atleast learn
> something of making molds and parts from fluid resins and fluid media
> before deciding if its worth hiring out the kind of work I do. One of
> the big issues here is viscosity and trapped air.  Also, working time
> can be quite short.  There are generally two ways people deal with
> trapped air.  Pressure and vacuum.  The most common thing used by garage
> shop guys is a pressure or vacuum pot about the size of a large paint
> bucket.  Pressure seems to be favored by some because vacuum can be
> quite messy as the air bubbles out of your resin.
>
> There are a number of videos on YouTube of people making parts this way.
>  Many are hack jobs, but you can still learn from them.  The guy with
> the talking sock puppet annoys the heck out of me, but he has spent some
> time doing this sort of part making.  I seem to recall that you do not
> have high speed Internet.  Your local public library may have a computer
> area you can use, or you can take your laptop (if it has appropriate
> security software installed) over to a coffee shop during one of their
> slower times of day.  After you have a firm grasp of basic processes
> then its time to contact some manufacturers and see about product
> properties for your application.
>
> If you have a parts that "needs" to be a heat vulcanized rubber then its
> probably out of the reach of basic garage shop work.  I think other
> resins will fill most needs though.
>
> ----------------
> I now have a 10GB per month cellular Internet service.
>
> "...vacuum can be quite messy as the air bubbles out of your resin."
>
> Oh, I know. I spent an afternoon chipping epoxy spills out of my
> second-hand vacuum oven. Replacing the electrical feedthru with a solid
> pipe plug cured its leak and the door gasket is still good.
>
> Typically the old brittle parts I want to replace are round, like
> grommets and connector boots, amenable to semi-precision lathe work. I'm
> considering two opposed pistons in an open tube such as a drum brake
> wheel cylinder, optionally with vacuum connected to the fluid port. The
> rubber or plastic could be a slug of correct weight or volume that will
> be compressed hot into final shape between the piston mold halves.
> Sliding the cylinder would move the port clear of the part, avoiding a
> sprue. After the mold cools the pistons and part can be pressed out one
> end and separated. I think that will bypass the complexity of DIY
> injection molding.
>
> Can you suggest a suitable rubber compound from experience? I can't find
> my Durometer to check a sample. Car radiator hose is about the right
> hardness, maybe around 50.
>

I have not really done the type of work you want to do, but I have used
Ooomoo (20ish I think), MoldMax 29, and SortaClear 37A. SortaClear is
pretty tough, and well sorta clear. Those are all Smooth-On silicone
rubbers used primarily for making silicone molds. I've done a bit more
work with the SortaClear since its a food grade resin. I've made a
number of food molds from it. I haven't worked with any of the urethane
rubbers. SmoothOn probably has the widest range of resins I've seen,
but some people do not like SmoothOn for some reason. The Platinum cure
silicones tend to handle a little higher heat than the Tin cure
silicones. Other than that I think you would need to read up on the
chemical resistance for the application. One thing I've been thinking
about making is primer bulbs for small gas powered hand tools. The
primer bulb is the first failure point on a lot of them. Now I just
need to see what is resistant to gas and oil.

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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t060v1$j72$1@dont-email.me...

I have not really done the type of work you want to do, but I have used
Ooomoo (20ish I think), MoldMax 29, and SortaClear 37A. SortaClear is
pretty tough, and well sorta clear. Those are all Smooth-On silicone
rubbers used primarily for making silicone molds. I've done a bit more
work with the SortaClear since its a food grade resin. I've made a
number of food molds from it. I haven't worked with any of the urethane
rubbers. SmoothOn probably has the widest range of resins I've seen,
but some people do not like SmoothOn for some reason. The Platinum cure
silicones tend to handle a little higher heat than the Tin cure
silicones. Other than that I think you would need to read up on the
chemical resistance for the application. One thing I've been thinking
about making is primer bulbs for small gas powered hand tools. The
primer bulb is the first failure point on a lot of them. Now I just
need to see what is resistant to gas and oil.

-----------------

OK, I was hoping you had experience with Urethane. I did, back when I was
learning Chemistry, pre-EPA. The Adiprene castings were extremely tough but
more like a hockey puck than flexible tubing. The goal was to replace
leather rather than rubber.

FlexSeal has far too little tensile strength to substitute for rubber.

These primer bulbs are easy to install:
https://shop.briggsandstratton.com/products/briggs-and-stratton-5084k-primer-bulb-diy-packaged-version-of-694394
I installed the clear version a few years ago and it's held up well. That is
the sort of item I'd like to be able to make if unavailable, but not one
that could cause a gas spill. Did you ever notice that the red and black
fuel shutoff valves have a not-for-gas symbol on them?

Unless I paid $20 for Atwoods, in-line primers have quickly hardened.

I made a pressure primer for my Honda EU1000i from a rubber stopper that
fits the fuel filler and a cheap valveless siphon bulb. The outlet check
valve is a rubber flap screwed under the hole through the stopper, the
intake valve is my thumb. It also blows the tank, pump and carb empty for
storage. The kerosine pump Honda suggests to drain the tank doesn't get
everything.