Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.

More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.

This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.

I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.

Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.

On Wed, 11 May 2022 14:08:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
>
>More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>
>This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
>
>I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>
>Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.

https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/edge830/EN-US/Edge_830_OM_EN-US.pdf
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
>
> More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason.. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>
> This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
>
> I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>
> Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.

On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
> >
> > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
> >
> > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
> >
> > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
> >
> > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
> The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.

That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830

Lou

On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
> > >
> > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
> > >
> > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
> > >
> > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
> > >
> > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
> > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
> That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
> https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.

On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.
> > > >
> > > > More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
> > > >
> > > > This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.
> > > >
> > > > I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
> > > >
> > > > Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
> > > The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
> > That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
> > https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
> It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems.. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.

The software engineers at Garmin are morons.

Lou

Lou Holtman <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5
>>>>> miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover
>>>>> a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it
>>>>> still continues with this distraction.
>>>>>
>>>>> More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no
>>>>> reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21
>>>>> miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was
>>>>> off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and
>>>>> started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent.
>>>>> This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I
>>>>> did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and
>>>>> length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable
>>>>> effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>>>>>
>>>>> This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less
>>>>> stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated
>>>>> it again and it looks like it is back.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence
>>>>> sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence
>>>>> sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and
>>>>> apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I
>>>>> think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like
>>>>> when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that
>>>>> point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
>>>> The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it
>>>> was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed
>>>> that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the
>>>> problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and
>>>> connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these
>>>> sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30
>>>> mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
>>> That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of
>>> years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out
>>> but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and
>>> software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
>>> https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
>> It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same
>> or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early
>> and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet
>> again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last
>> problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed
>> all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so
>> that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and
>> lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
>
> The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
>
> Lou
>

The apps on the phones are not terribly good granted, but personally I’ve
found the 830 and a friend has the 530 solid, Only issue is if the app bugs
out and stops passing notifications on. Granted I view the data via Strava
but to the best of my knowledge it’s fine.

I generally don’t connect it to the computer more than few times a year as
most of the updates it does via WiFi etc.

Roger Merriman.

On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 3:45:00 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>> Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5
> >>>>> miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover
> >>>>> a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it
> >>>>> still continues with this distraction.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no
> >>>>> reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21
> >>>>> miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was
> >>>>> off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and
> >>>>> started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent.
> >>>>> This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I
> >>>>> did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and
> >>>>> length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable
> >>>>> effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less
> >>>>> stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated
> >>>>> it again and it looks like it is back.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence
> >>>>> sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence
> >>>>> sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and
> >>>>> apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I
> >>>>> think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like
> >>>>> when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that
> >>>>> point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
> >>>> The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it
> >>>> was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed
> >>>> that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the
> >>>> problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and
> >>>> connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these
> >>>> sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30
> >>>> mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
> >>> That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of
> >>> years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out
> >>> but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and
> >>> software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
> >>> https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
> >> It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same
> >> or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early
> >> and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet
> >> again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last
> >> problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed
> >> all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so
> >> that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and
> >> lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
> >
> > The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
> >
> > Lou
> >
> The apps on the phones are not terribly good granted, but personally I’ve
> found the 830 and a friend has the 530 solid, Only issue is if the app bugs
> out and stops passing notifications on. Granted I view the data via Strava
> but to the best of my knowledge it’s fine.
>
> I generally don’t connect it to the computer more than few times a year as
> most of the updates it does via WiFi etc.

Well, Lou suggested I go to the user comments site of the Garmin website and there were MANY complaints saying EXACTLY what I was. This suggests to me that there was several PCB's of variousversions which could very well be why some people have no problems at all and others a lot. I recieved a firmware update and my 830 would STOP recording speed and distance even though it would record the actual course Almost the following day there was another update that appears to have fixed this problem.

So saying that you have one and it works fine is pretty much meaningless. You can read for yourself large numbers of people with my same complaints.

This also suggests that the firmware engineers do NOT have these various versions properly documented so they cannot properly test their changes. My entire career was making absolutely certain that any and all changes were always properly documented and that major version changes used entirely different firmware that wouldn't load into the wrong version. But remember that all these working systems were invented largely by me. You cannot have any possible errors in an artificial lung machine or an artificial heart.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 3:45:00 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5
>>>>>>> miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover
>>>>>>> a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it
>>>>>>> still continues with this distraction.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no
>>>>>>> reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21
>>>>>>> miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was
>>>>>>> off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and
>>>>>>> started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent.
>>>>>>> This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I
>>>>>>> did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and
>>>>>>> length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable
>>>>>>> effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less
>>>>>>> stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated
>>>>>>> it again and it looks like it is back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence
>>>>>>> sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence
>>>>>>> sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and
>>>>>>> apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I
>>>>>>> think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like
>>>>>>> when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that
>>>>>>> point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
>>>>>> The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it
>>>>>> was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed
>>>>>> that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the
>>>>>> problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and
>>>>>> connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these
>>>>>> sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30
>>>>>> mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
>>>>> That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of
>>>>> years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out
>>>>> but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and
>>>>> software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
>>>>> https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
>>>> It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same
>>>> or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early
>>>> and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet
>>>> again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last
>>>> problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed
>>>> all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so
>>>> that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and
>>>> lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
>>>
>>> The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>> The apps on the phones are not terribly good granted, but personally I’ve
>> found the 830 and a friend has the 530 solid, Only issue is if the app bugs
>> out and stops passing notifications on. Granted I view the data via Strava
>> but to the best of my knowledge it’s fine.
>>
>> I generally don’t connect it to the computer more than few times a year as
>> most of the updates it does via WiFi etc.
>
> Well, Lou suggested I go to the user comments site of the Garmin website
> and there were MANY complaints saying EXACTLY what I was. This suggests
> to me that there was several PCB's of variousversions which could very
> well be why some people have no problems at all and others a lot. I
> recieved a firmware update and my 830 would STOP recording speed and
> distance even though it would record the actual course Almost the
> following day there was another update that appears to have fixed this problem.
>
> So saying that you have one and it works fine is pretty much meaningless.
> You can read for yourself large numbers of people with my same complaints.
>
> This also suggests that the firmware engineers do NOT have these various
> versions properly documented so they cannot properly test their changes.
> My entire career was making absolutely certain that any and all changes
> were always properly documented and that major version changes used
> entirely different firmware that wouldn't load into the wrong version.
> But remember that all these working systems were invented largely by me.
> You cannot have any possible errors in an artificial lung machine or an artificial heart.
>
A few folks complaining on the Garmin forums is not essentially data, or
rather doesn’t show its large scale or even small scale.

It’s not hit the variable technical places who are for example covering
shimano request that Hammerhead devices (now owned by SRAM) remove the Di12
functions on the devices. And do generally cover bugs and what not.

Roger Merriman

On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 1:16:56 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 3:45:00 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>> Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5
> >>>>>>> miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover
> >>>>>>> a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it
> >>>>>>> still continues with this distraction.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no
> >>>>>>> reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21
> >>>>>>> miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was
> >>>>>>> off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and
> >>>>>>> started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent.
> >>>>>>> This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I
> >>>>>>> did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and
> >>>>>>> length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable
> >>>>>>> effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less
> >>>>>>> stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated
> >>>>>>> it again and it looks like it is back.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence
> >>>>>>> sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence
> >>>>>>> sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and
> >>>>>>> apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I
> >>>>>>> think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like
> >>>>>>> when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that
> >>>>>>> point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
> >>>>>> The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it
> >>>>>> was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed
> >>>>>> that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the
> >>>>>> problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and
> >>>>>> connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these
> >>>>>> sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30
> >>>>>> mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
> >>>>> That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of
> >>>>> years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out
> >>>>> but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and
> >>>>> software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
> >>>>> https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
> >>>> It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same
> >>>> or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early
> >>>> and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet
> >>>> again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last
> >>>> problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed
> >>>> all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so
> >>>> that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and
> >>>> lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
> >>>
> >>> The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
> >>>
> >>> Lou
> >>>
> >> The apps on the phones are not terribly good granted, but personally I’ve
> >> found the 830 and a friend has the 530 solid, Only issue is if the app bugs
> >> out and stops passing notifications on. Granted I view the data via Strava
> >> but to the best of my knowledge it’s fine.
> >>
> >> I generally don’t connect it to the computer more than few times a year as
> >> most of the updates it does via WiFi etc.
> >
> > Well, Lou suggested I go to the user comments site of the Garmin website
> > and there were MANY complaints saying EXACTLY what I was. This suggests
> > to me that there was several PCB's of variousversions which could very
> > well be why some people have no problems at all and others a lot. I
> > recieved a firmware update and my 830 would STOP recording speed and
> > distance even though it would record the actual course Almost the
> > following day there was another update that appears to have fixed this problem.
> >
> > So saying that you have one and it works fine is pretty much meaningless.
> > You can read for yourself large numbers of people with my same complaints.
> >
> > This also suggests that the firmware engineers do NOT have these various
> > versions properly documented so they cannot properly test their changes..
> > My entire career was making absolutely certain that any and all changes
> > were always properly documented and that major version changes used
> > entirely different firmware that wouldn't load into the wrong version.
> > But remember that all these working systems were invented largely by me..
> > You cannot have any possible errors in an artificial lung machine or an artificial heart.
> >
> A few folks complaining on the Garmin forums is not essentially data, or
> rather doesn’t show its large scale or even small scale.
>
> It’s not hit the variable technical places who are for example covering
> shimano request that Hammerhead devices (now owned by SRAM) remove the Di12
> functions on the devices. And do generally cover bugs and what not.
>
> Roger Merriman

Big mistake Garmin made imho is allowing third party apps on their devices causing all kind of problems that has to be fixed causing other problems etc. Etc.

Lou

On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 6:42:06 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 1:16:56 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 3:45:00 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > >> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>>>> Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5
> > >>>>>>> miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover
> > >>>>>>> a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it
> > >>>>>>> still continues with this distraction.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no
> > >>>>>>> reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21
> > >>>>>>> miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was
> > >>>>>>> off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and
> > >>>>>>> started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent.
> > >>>>>>> This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I
> > >>>>>>> did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and
> > >>>>>>> length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable
> > >>>>>>> effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less
> > >>>>>>> stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated
> > >>>>>>> it again and it looks like it is back.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence
> > >>>>>>> sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence
> > >>>>>>> sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and
> > >>>>>>> apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I
> > >>>>>>> think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like
> > >>>>>>> when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that
> > >>>>>>> point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
> > >>>>>> The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it
> > >>>>>> was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed
> > >>>>>> that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the
> > >>>>>> problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and
> > >>>>>> connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these
> > >>>>>> sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30
> > >>>>>> mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
> > >>>>> That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of
> > >>>>> years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out
> > >>>>> but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and
> > >>>>> software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
> > >>>>> https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
> > >>>> It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same
> > >>>> or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early
> > >>>> and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet
> > >>>> again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last
> > >>>> problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed
> > >>>> all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so
> > >>>> that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and
> > >>>> lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
> > >>>
> > >>> The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
> > >>>
> > >>> Lou
> > >>>
> > >> The apps on the phones are not terribly good granted, but personally I’ve
> > >> found the 830 and a friend has the 530 solid, Only issue is if the app bugs
> > >> out and stops passing notifications on. Granted I view the data via Strava
> > >> but to the best of my knowledge it’s fine.
> > >>
> > >> I generally don’t connect it to the computer more than few times a year as
> > >> most of the updates it does via WiFi etc.
> > >
> > > Well, Lou suggested I go to the user comments site of the Garmin website
> > > and there were MANY complaints saying EXACTLY what I was. This suggests
> > > to me that there was several PCB's of variousversions which could very
> > > well be why some people have no problems at all and others a lot. I
> > > recieved a firmware update and my 830 would STOP recording speed and
> > > distance even though it would record the actual course Almost the
> > > following day there was another update that appears to have fixed this problem.
> > >
> > > So saying that you have one and it works fine is pretty much meaningless.
> > > You can read for yourself large numbers of people with my same complaints.
> > >
> > > This also suggests that the firmware engineers do NOT have these various
> > > versions properly documented so they cannot properly test their changes.
> > > My entire career was making absolutely certain that any and all changes
> > > were always properly documented and that major version changes used
> > > entirely different firmware that wouldn't load into the wrong version..
> > > But remember that all these working systems were invented largely by me.
> > > You cannot have any possible errors in an artificial lung machine or an artificial heart.
> > >
> > A few folks complaining on the Garmin forums is not essentially data, or
> > rather doesn’t show its large scale or even small scale.
> >
> > It’s not hit the variable technical places who are for example covering
> > shimano request that Hammerhead devices (now owned by SRAM) remove the Di12
> > functions on the devices. And do generally cover bugs and what not.
> >
> > Roger Merriman
> Big mistake Garmin made imho is allowing third party apps on their devices causing all kind of problems that has to be fixed causing other problems etc. Etc.
I have no third parfy apps and don't use any of the special capabilitieds of the 830 such as route mapping. All I wanted it for was to give me time and distance and grade and total climbing. I used to use a small handlebar computer to do this but it wouldn't allow me to log it into the computer other than manually.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 6:42:06 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 1:16:56 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 3:45:00 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5
>>>>>>>>>> miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover
>>>>>>>>>> a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it
>>>>>>>>>> still continues with this distraction.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no
>>>>>>>>>> reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21
>>>>>>>>>> miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was
>>>>>>>>>> off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and
>>>>>>>>>> started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent.
>>>>>>>>>> This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I
>>>>>>>>>> did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and
>>>>>>>>>> length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable
>>>>>>>>>> effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less
>>>>>>>>>> stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated
>>>>>>>>>> it again and it looks like it is back.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence
>>>>>>>>>> sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence
>>>>>>>>>> sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and
>>>>>>>>>> apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I
>>>>>>>>>> think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like
>>>>>>>>>> when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that
>>>>>>>>>> point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
>>>>>>>>> The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it
>>>>>>>>> was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed
>>>>>>>>> that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the
>>>>>>>>> problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and
>>>>>>>>> connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these
>>>>>>>>> sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30
>>>>>>>>> mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
>>>>>>>> That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of
>>>>>>>> years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out
>>>>>>>> but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and
>>>>>>>> software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
>>>>>>>> https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
>>>>>>> It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same
>>>>>>> or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early
>>>>>>> and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet
>>>>>>> again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last
>>>>>>> problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed
>>>>>>> all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so
>>>>>>> that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and
>>>>>>> lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>
>>>>> The apps on the phones are not terribly good granted, but personally I’ve
>>>>> found the 830 and a friend has the 530 solid, Only issue is if the app bugs
>>>>> out and stops passing notifications on. Granted I view the data via Strava
>>>>> but to the best of my knowledge it’s fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> I generally don’t connect it to the computer more than few times a year as
>>>>> most of the updates it does via WiFi etc.
>>>>
>>>> Well, Lou suggested I go to the user comments site of the Garmin website
>>>> and there were MANY complaints saying EXACTLY what I was. This suggests
>>>> to me that there was several PCB's of variousversions which could very
>>>> well be why some people have no problems at all and others a lot. I
>>>> recieved a firmware update and my 830 would STOP recording speed and
>>>> distance even though it would record the actual course Almost the
>>>> following day there was another update that appears to have fixed this problem.
>>>>
>>>> So saying that you have one and it works fine is pretty much meaningless.
>>>> You can read for yourself large numbers of people with my same complaints.
>>>>
>>>> This also suggests that the firmware engineers do NOT have these various
>>>> versions properly documented so they cannot properly test their changes.
>>>> My entire career was making absolutely certain that any and all changes
>>>> were always properly documented and that major version changes used
>>>> entirely different firmware that wouldn't load into the wrong version.
>>>> But remember that all these working systems were invented largely by me.
>>>> You cannot have any possible errors in an artificial lung machine or
>>>> an artificial heart.
>>>>
>>> A few folks complaining on the Garmin forums is not essentially data, or
>>> rather doesn’t show its large scale or even small scale.
>>>
>>> It’s not hit the variable technical places who are for example covering
>>> shimano request that Hammerhead devices (now owned by SRAM) remove the Di12
>>> functions on the devices. And do generally cover bugs and what not.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>> Big mistake Garmin made imho is allowing third party apps on their
>> devices causing all kind of problems that has to be fixed causing other
>> problems etc. Etc.
> I have no third parfy apps and don't use any of
>> the special capabilitieds of the 830 such as route mapping. All I wanted
>> it for was to give me time and distance and grade and total climbing. I
>> used to use a small handlebar computer to do this but it wouldn't allow
>> me to log it into the computer other than manually.
>
Cheapest Garmin will do that, such as the 130+ I have it’s even cheaper 130
ie somewhat older CPU for the commute which displays time of day, speed,
distance, and run time and uploads via the mobile app, it’s the device I
use for the commute as I don’t want to trash the nice one, on the commute.

I make heavy use of navigation hence liking the 830 for MTB/Gravel rides.

Roger Merriman

On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 4:37:28 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 6:42:06 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 1:16:56 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 3:45:00 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5
> >>>>>>>>>> miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover
> >>>>>>>>>> a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it
> >>>>>>>>>> still continues with this distraction.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no
> >>>>>>>>>> reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21
> >>>>>>>>>> miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was
> >>>>>>>>>> off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and
> >>>>>>>>>> started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent.
> >>>>>>>>>> This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I
> >>>>>>>>>> did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and
> >>>>>>>>>> length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable
> >>>>>>>>>> effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less
> >>>>>>>>>> stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated
> >>>>>>>>>> it again and it looks like it is back.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence
> >>>>>>>>>> sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence
> >>>>>>>>>> sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and
> >>>>>>>>>> apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I
> >>>>>>>>>> think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like
> >>>>>>>>>> when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that
> >>>>>>>>>> point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
> >>>>>>>>> The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it
> >>>>>>>>> was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed
> >>>>>>>>> that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the
> >>>>>>>>> problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and
> >>>>>>>>> connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these
> >>>>>>>>> sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30
> >>>>>>>>> mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
> >>>>>>>> That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of
> >>>>>>>> years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out
> >>>>>>>> but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and
> >>>>>>>> software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
> >>>>>>>> https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
> >>>>>>> It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same
> >>>>>>> or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early
> >>>>>>> and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet
> >>>>>>> again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last
> >>>>>>> problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed
> >>>>>>> all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so
> >>>>>>> that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and
> >>>>>>> lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> The apps on the phones are not terribly good granted, but personally I’ve
> >>>>> found the 830 and a friend has the 530 solid, Only issue is if the app bugs
> >>>>> out and stops passing notifications on. Granted I view the data via Strava
> >>>>> but to the best of my knowledge it’s fine.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I generally don’t connect it to the computer more than few times a year as
> >>>>> most of the updates it does via WiFi etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, Lou suggested I go to the user comments site of the Garmin website
> >>>> and there were MANY complaints saying EXACTLY what I was. This suggests
> >>>> to me that there was several PCB's of variousversions which could very
> >>>> well be why some people have no problems at all and others a lot. I
> >>>> recieved a firmware update and my 830 would STOP recording speed and
> >>>> distance even though it would record the actual course Almost the
> >>>> following day there was another update that appears to have fixed this problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> So saying that you have one and it works fine is pretty much meaningless.
> >>>> You can read for yourself large numbers of people with my same complaints.
> >>>>
> >>>> This also suggests that the firmware engineers do NOT have these various
> >>>> versions properly documented so they cannot properly test their changes.
> >>>> My entire career was making absolutely certain that any and all changes
> >>>> were always properly documented and that major version changes used
> >>>> entirely different firmware that wouldn't load into the wrong version.
> >>>> But remember that all these working systems were invented largely by me.
> >>>> You cannot have any possible errors in an artificial lung machine or
> >>>> an artificial heart.
> >>>>
> >>> A few folks complaining on the Garmin forums is not essentially data, or
> >>> rather doesn’t show its large scale or even small scale.
> >>>
> >>> It’s not hit the variable technical places who are for example covering
> >>> shimano request that Hammerhead devices (now owned by SRAM) remove the Di12
> >>> functions on the devices. And do generally cover bugs and what not.
> >>>
> >>> Roger Merriman
> >> Big mistake Garmin made imho is allowing third party apps on their
> >> devices causing all kind of problems that has to be fixed causing other
> >> problems etc. Etc.
> > I have no third parfy apps and don't use any of
> >> the special capabilitieds of the 830 such as route mapping. All I wanted
> >> it for was to give me time and distance and grade and total climbing. I
> >> used to use a small handlebar computer to do this but it wouldn't allow
> >> me to log it into the computer other than manually.
> >
> Cheapest Garmin will do that, such as the 130+ I have it’s even cheaper 130
> ie somewhat older CPU for the commute which displays time of day, speed,
> distance, and run time and uploads via the mobile app, it’s the device I
> use for the commute as I don’t want to trash the nice one, on the commute.
>
> I make heavy use of navigation hence liking the 830 for MTB/Gravel rides.
>
> Roger Merriman

On 5/28/2022 2:14 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 4:37:28 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 6:42:06 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 1:16:56 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 3:45:00 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5
>>>>>>>>>>>> miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover
>>>>>>>>>>>> a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it
>>>>>>>>>>>> still continues with this distraction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no
>>>>>>>>>>>> reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21
>>>>>>>>>>>> miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was
>>>>>>>>>>>> off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and
>>>>>>>>>>>> started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent.
>>>>>>>>>>>> This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I
>>>>>>>>>>>> did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and
>>>>>>>>>>>> length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable
>>>>>>>>>>>> effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less
>>>>>>>>>>>> stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated
>>>>>>>>>>>> it again and it looks like it is back.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence
>>>>>>>>>>>> sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence
>>>>>>>>>>>> sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and
>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like
>>>>>>>>>>>> when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that
>>>>>>>>>>>> point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
>>>>>>>>>>> The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it
>>>>>>>>>>> was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed
>>>>>>>>>>> that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the
>>>>>>>>>>> problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and
>>>>>>>>>>> connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these
>>>>>>>>>>> sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30
>>>>>>>>>>> mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
>>>>>>>>>> That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of
>>>>>>>>>> years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out
>>>>>>>>>> but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and
>>>>>>>>>> software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
>>>>>>>>>> https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
>>>>>>>>> It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same
>>>>>>>>> or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early
>>>>>>>>> and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet
>>>>>>>>> again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last
>>>>>>>>> problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed
>>>>>>>>> all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so
>>>>>>>>> that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and
>>>>>>>>> lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The apps on the phones are not terribly good granted, but personally I’ve
>>>>>>> found the 830 and a friend has the 530 solid, Only issue is if the app bugs
>>>>>>> out and stops passing notifications on. Granted I view the data via Strava
>>>>>>> but to the best of my knowledge it’s fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I generally don’t connect it to the computer more than few times a year as
>>>>>>> most of the updates it does via WiFi etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, Lou suggested I go to the user comments site of the Garmin website
>>>>>> and there were MANY complaints saying EXACTLY what I was. This suggests
>>>>>> to me that there was several PCB's of variousversions which could very
>>>>>> well be why some people have no problems at all and others a lot. I
>>>>>> recieved a firmware update and my 830 would STOP recording speed and
>>>>>> distance even though it would record the actual course Almost the
>>>>>> following day there was another update that appears to have fixed this problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So saying that you have one and it works fine is pretty much meaningless.
>>>>>> You can read for yourself large numbers of people with my same complaints.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This also suggests that the firmware engineers do NOT have these various
>>>>>> versions properly documented so they cannot properly test their changes.
>>>>>> My entire career was making absolutely certain that any and all changes
>>>>>> were always properly documented and that major version changes used
>>>>>> entirely different firmware that wouldn't load into the wrong version.
>>>>>> But remember that all these working systems were invented largely by me.
>>>>>> You cannot have any possible errors in an artificial lung machine or
>>>>>> an artificial heart.
>>>>>>
>>>>> A few folks complaining on the Garmin forums is not essentially data, or
>>>>> rather doesn’t show its large scale or even small scale.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s not hit the variable technical places who are for example covering
>>>>> shimano request that Hammerhead devices (now owned by SRAM) remove the Di12
>>>>> functions on the devices. And do generally cover bugs and what not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>> Big mistake Garmin made imho is allowing third party apps on their
>>>> devices causing all kind of problems that has to be fixed causing other
>>>> problems etc. Etc.
>>> I have no third parfy apps and don't use any of
>>>> the special capabilitieds of the 830 such as route mapping. All I wanted
>>>> it for was to give me time and distance and grade and total climbing. I
>>>> used to use a small handlebar computer to do this but it wouldn't allow
>>>> me to log it into the computer other than manually.
>>>
>> Cheapest Garmin will do that, such as the 130+ I have it’s even cheaper 130
>> ie somewhat older CPU for the commute which displays time of day, speed,
>> distance, and run time and uploads via the mobile app, it’s the device I
>> use for the commute as I don’t want to trash the nice one, on the commute.
>>
>> I make heavy use of navigation hence liking the 830 for MTB/Gravel rides.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with features they never use and only complicate matters. Half of the members of my club with a Garmin with navigation capabilities can't even read the map without reading glasses.

Lou Holtman <lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 4:37:28 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 6:42:06 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 1:16:56 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 3:45:00 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5
>>>>>>>>>>>> miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover
>>>>>>>>>>>> a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it
>>>>>>>>>>>> still continues with this distraction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no
>>>>>>>>>>>> reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21
>>>>>>>>>>>> miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was
>>>>>>>>>>>> off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and
>>>>>>>>>>>> started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent.
>>>>>>>>>>>> This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I
>>>>>>>>>>>> did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and
>>>>>>>>>>>> length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable
>>>>>>>>>>>> effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less
>>>>>>>>>>>> stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated
>>>>>>>>>>>> it again and it looks like it is back.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence
>>>>>>>>>>>> sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence
>>>>>>>>>>>> sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and
>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like
>>>>>>>>>>>> when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that
>>>>>>>>>>>> point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
>>>>>>>>>>> The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it
>>>>>>>>>>> was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed
>>>>>>>>>>> that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the
>>>>>>>>>>> problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and
>>>>>>>>>>> connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these
>>>>>>>>>>> sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30
>>>>>>>>>>> mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
>>>>>>>>>> That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of
>>>>>>>>>> years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out
>>>>>>>>>> but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and
>>>>>>>>>> software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
>>>>>>>>>> https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
>>>>>>>>> It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same
>>>>>>>>> or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early
>>>>>>>>> and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet
>>>>>>>>> again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last
>>>>>>>>> problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed
>>>>>>>>> all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so
>>>>>>>>> that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and
>>>>>>>>> lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The apps on the phones are not terribly good granted, but personally I’ve
>>>>>>> found the 830 and a friend has the 530 solid, Only issue is if the app bugs
>>>>>>> out and stops passing notifications on. Granted I view the data via Strava
>>>>>>> but to the best of my knowledge it’s fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I generally don’t connect it to the computer more than few times a year as
>>>>>>> most of the updates it does via WiFi etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, Lou suggested I go to the user comments site of the Garmin website
>>>>>> and there were MANY complaints saying EXACTLY what I was. This suggests
>>>>>> to me that there was several PCB's of variousversions which could very
>>>>>> well be why some people have no problems at all and others a lot. I
>>>>>> recieved a firmware update and my 830 would STOP recording speed and
>>>>>> distance even though it would record the actual course Almost the
>>>>>> following day there was another update that appears to have fixed this problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So saying that you have one and it works fine is pretty much meaningless.
>>>>>> You can read for yourself large numbers of people with my same complaints.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This also suggests that the firmware engineers do NOT have these various
>>>>>> versions properly documented so they cannot properly test their changes.
>>>>>> My entire career was making absolutely certain that any and all changes
>>>>>> were always properly documented and that major version changes used
>>>>>> entirely different firmware that wouldn't load into the wrong version.
>>>>>> But remember that all these working systems were invented largely by me.
>>>>>> You cannot have any possible errors in an artificial lung machine or
>>>>>> an artificial heart.
>>>>>>
>>>>> A few folks complaining on the Garmin forums is not essentially data, or
>>>>> rather doesn’t show its large scale or even small scale.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s not hit the variable technical places who are for example covering
>>>>> shimano request that Hammerhead devices (now owned by SRAM) remove the Di12
>>>>> functions on the devices. And do generally cover bugs and what not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>> Big mistake Garmin made imho is allowing third party apps on their
>>>> devices causing all kind of problems that has to be fixed causing other
>>>> problems etc. Etc.
>>> I have no third parfy apps and don't use any of
>>>> the special capabilitieds of the 830 such as route mapping. All I wanted
>>>> it for was to give me time and distance and grade and total climbing. I
>>>> used to use a small handlebar computer to do this but it wouldn't allow
>>>> me to log it into the computer other than manually.
>>>
>> Cheapest Garmin will do that, such as the 130+ I have it’s even cheaper 130
>> ie somewhat older CPU for the commute which displays time of day, speed,
>> distance, and run time and uploads via the mobile app, it’s the device I
>> use for the commute as I don’t want to trash the nice one, on the commute.
>>
>> I make heavy use of navigation hence liking the 830 for MTB/Gravel rides.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with features they
> never use and only complicate matters. Half of the members of my club
> with a Garmin with navigation capabilities can't even read the map without reading glasses.
>
> Lou
>
Number of folks I see with really quite high end Garmin/Wahoo/ etc and all
they do is turn on and ride.

On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 10:55:00 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with features they
> > never use and only complicate matters. Half of the members of my club
> > with a Garmin with navigation capabilities can't even read the map without reading glasses.
> >
> > Lou
> >
> Number of folks I see with really quite high end Garmin/Wahoo/ etc and all
> they do is turn on and ride.

Same here after I disable all the unnecessary crap and set up the basics for them. Our medical half (retired general practitioners and specialists) of our group don't have a clue and don't care. How their patients survived is still a puzzle to me ;-)

Lou

On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 2:48:25 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 10:55:00 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with features they
> > > never use and only complicate matters. Half of the members of my club
> > > with a Garmin with navigation capabilities can't even read the map without reading glasses.
> > >
> > > Lou
> > >
> > Number of folks I see with really quite high end Garmin/Wahoo/ etc and all
> > they do is turn on and ride.
> Same here after I disable all the unnecessary crap and set up the basics for them. Our medical half (retired general practitioners and specialists) of our group don't have a clue and don't care. How their patients survived is still a puzzle to me ;-)

One day I will figure out how to download route sheets of a century into the 830 for a century I've never done before. Is it better to have the capability and not use it or need the capability and not have it? The major problem is that people that are putting on the century have to know how to generate a Garmin friendly route sheet.

On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 3:27:47 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 2:48:25 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 10:55:00 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > > Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with features they
> > > > never use and only complicate matters. Half of the members of my club
> > > > with a Garmin with navigation capabilities can't even read the map without reading glasses.
> > > >
> > > > Lou
> > > >
> > > Number of folks I see with really quite high end Garmin/Wahoo/ etc and all
> > > they do is turn on and ride.
> > Same here after I disable all the unnecessary crap and set up the basics for them. Our medical half (retired general practitioners and specialists) of our group don't have a clue and don't care. How their patients survived is still a puzzle to me ;-)
> One day I will figure out how to download route sheets of a century into the 830 for a century I've never done before. Is it better to have the capability and not use it or need the capability and not have it? The major problem is that people that are putting on the century have to know how to generate a Garmin friendly route sheet.

Route sheets? I think you don’t understand how it works yet. You only need one guy that rides the route and record it to generate a gpx file, hich anyone can download and put it in their Garmin. It is so easy.

Lou

On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 6:59:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 3:27:47 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 2:48:25 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 10:55:00 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > > > Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with features they
> > > > > never use and only complicate matters. Half of the members of my club
> > > > > with a Garmin with navigation capabilities can't even read the map without reading glasses.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lou
> > > > >
> > > > Number of folks I see with really quite high end Garmin/Wahoo/ etc and all
> > > > they do is turn on and ride.
> > > Same here after I disable all the unnecessary crap and set up the basics for them. Our medical half (retired general practitioners and specialists) of our group don't have a clue and don't care. How their patients survived is still a puzzle to me ;-)
> > One day I will figure out how to download route sheets of a century into the 830 for a century I've never done before. Is it better to have the capability and not use it or need the capability and not have it? The major problem is that people that are putting on the century have to know how to generate a Garmin friendly route sheet.
> Route sheets? I think you don’t understand how it works yet. You only need one guy that rides the route and record it to generate a gpx file, hich anyone can download and put it in their Garmin. It is so easy.

Lou, they have claimed these files to be available for a couple of centuries now and yet did not explain to the vast majority of people how to download them into their Garmin. Most Centuries make money for clubs and no one in the club has the ability to do a hard 100 miles. Of course they could drive it to record the route but then they have to know how it is all done and they have to put that information on the century website.

On 5/28/2022 3:46 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 5/28/2022 2:14 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 4:37:28 PM UTC+2, Roger
>> Merriman wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 6:42:06 AM UTC-7, Lou
>>>> Holtman wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 1:16:56 PM UTC+2, Roger
>>>>> Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 3:45:00 PM UTC-7, Roger
>>>>>>> Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 8:24:58 PM UTC+2, Tom
>>>>>>>>> Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-7,
>>>>>>>>>> Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+2,
>>>>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 2:08:53 PM UTC-7,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reporting "Laps" of 5
>>>>>>>>>>>>> miles each. These are absolutely worthless but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have yet to discover
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps
>>>>>>>>>>>>> notation "off" it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still continues with this distraction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> More serious is it turning off at the strangest
>>>>>>>>>>>>> moments and for no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned off after 21
>>>>>>>>>>>>> miles. I think that there was a small indicator
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that showed it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> off but not very noticeable until I reached the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> top of the climb and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> started down and got to fairly easy descent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the 12% top descent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mile recording. Luckily I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> did this exact route a month ago and so could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the climb and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which had a remarkable
>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect on my flats speed didn't show any true
>>>>>>>>>>>>> average speed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This happened more commonly in the past but it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> had more or less
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stopped doing this with the last firmware
>>>>>>>>>>>>> update. Well, they updated
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it again and it looks like it is back.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was also having trouble with my 830 finding
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the speed/cadence
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sensor but I figured that one out - they have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> class of Cadence
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are different and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently have different identification codes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once discovered, easily fixed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for some reason. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think that occurs when I come to a stop for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more than 10 seconds like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I stopped to take a leak along the road.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The distance to that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> point is about correct for the stopped mileage.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The garminhas carried on with its piculiar
>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior. I think that it
>>>>>>>>>>>> was the last firmware update that did it in. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately followed
>>>>>>>>>>>> that by yet another firmware update. So
>>>>>>>>>>>> hopefully that wil correct the
>>>>>>>>>>>> problem. It shows the route when you get to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> end of the ride and
>>>>>>>>>>>> connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows
>>>>>>>>>>>> zero mileage for these
>>>>>>>>>>>> sections. The last time the Garmin switched off
>>>>>>>>>>>> at 5 miles into a 30
>>>>>>>>>>>> mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.
>>>>>>>>>>> That are strange problems. My brother uses an
>>>>>>>>>>> edge 830 for a couple of
>>>>>>>>>>> years now without those problems. He had issues
>>>>>>>>>>> when the unit came out
>>>>>>>>>>> but all that was solved by the first couple of
>>>>>>>>>>> updates. Garmin and
>>>>>>>>>>> software is not a great combination. Have you
>>>>>>>>>>> consulted the Garmin forum:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It appears that a lot of people are having trouble
>>>>>>>>>> with either the same
>>>>>>>>>> or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking
>>>>>>>>>> anoter ride and start early
>>>>>>>>>> and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or
>>>>>>>>>> hot. If it fails yet
>>>>>>>>>> again after I've reset it, I'll have to call
>>>>>>>>>> Service again. The last
>>>>>>>>>> problem I had he sent me a non-released version of
>>>>>>>>>> firmware that fixed
>>>>>>>>>> all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in
>>>>>>>>>> my back pocket so
>>>>>>>>>> that I don't have to guess at distances anymore.
>>>>>>>>>> The 830 is smaller and
>>>>>>>>>> lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having
>>>>>>>>>> problems with it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The software engineers at Garmin are morons.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The apps on the phones are not terribly good
>>>>>>>> granted, but personally I’ve
>>>>>>>> found the 830 and a friend has the 530 solid, Only
>>>>>>>> issue is if the app bugs
>>>>>>>> out and stops passing notifications on. Granted I
>>>>>>>> view the data via Strava
>>>>>>>> but to the best of my knowledge it’s fine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I generally don’t connect it to the computer more
>>>>>>>> than few times a year as
>>>>>>>> most of the updates it does via WiFi etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, Lou suggested I go to the user comments site of
>>>>>>> the Garmin website
>>>>>>> and there were MANY complaints saying EXACTLY what I
>>>>>>> was. This suggests
>>>>>>> to me that there was several PCB's of variousversions
>>>>>>> which could very
>>>>>>> well be why some people have no problems at all and
>>>>>>> others a lot. I
>>>>>>> recieved a firmware update and my 830 would STOP
>>>>>>> recording speed and
>>>>>>> distance even though it would record the actual
>>>>>>> course Almost the
>>>>>>> following day there was another update that appears
>>>>>>> to have fixed this problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So saying that you have one and it works fine is
>>>>>>> pretty much meaningless.
>>>>>>> You can read for yourself large numbers of people
>>>>>>> with my same complaints.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This also suggests that the firmware engineers do NOT
>>>>>>> have these various
>>>>>>> versions properly documented so they cannot properly
>>>>>>> test their changes.
>>>>>>> My entire career was making absolutely certain that
>>>>>>> any and all changes
>>>>>>> were always properly documented and that major
>>>>>>> version changes used
>>>>>>> entirely different firmware that wouldn't load into
>>>>>>> the wrong version.
>>>>>>> But remember that all these working systems were
>>>>>>> invented largely by me.
>>>>>>> You cannot have any possible errors in an artificial
>>>>>>> lung machine or
>>>>>>> an artificial heart.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> A few folks complaining on the Garmin forums is not
>>>>>> essentially data, or
>>>>>> rather doesn’t show its large scale or even small
>>>>>> scale.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s not hit the variable technical places who are
>>>>>> for example covering
>>>>>> shimano request that Hammerhead devices (now owned by
>>>>>> SRAM) remove the Di12
>>>>>> functions on the devices. And do generally cover bugs
>>>>>> and what not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>> Big mistake Garmin made imho is allowing third party
>>>>> apps on their
>>>>> devices causing all kind of problems that has to be
>>>>> fixed causing other
>>>>> problems etc. Etc.
>>>> I have no third parfy apps and don't use any of
>>>>> the special capabilitieds of the 830 such as route
>>>>> mapping. All I wanted
>>>>> it for was to give me time and distance and grade and
>>>>> total climbing. I
>>>>> used to use a small handlebar computer to do this but
>>>>> it wouldn't allow
>>>>> me to log it into the computer other than manually.
>>>>
>>> Cheapest Garmin will do that, such as the 130+ I have
>>> it’s even cheaper 130
>>> ie somewhat older CPU for the commute which displays time
>>> of day, speed,
>>> distance, and run time and uploads via the mobile app,
>>> it’s the device I
>>> use for the commute as I don’t want to trash the nice
>>> one, on the commute.
>>>
>>> I make heavy use of navigation hence liking the 830 for
>>> MTB/Gravel rides.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with
>> features they never use and only complicate matters. Half
>> of the members of my club with a Garmin with navigation
>> capabilities can't even read the map without reading glasses.
>
> The proliferation of (relatively) useless features is
> popping up everywhere. Even my relatively old stereo
> receiver has menu items and buttons that I've never used and
> never plan to.
>
> The car we just bought has an incredible number of menus and
> options, and there are websites describing even more
> "secret" or "hidden" choices for this vehicle.
>
> I think it's a massive "make work" program for electronic
> programmers.
>
>

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 6:59:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 3:27:47 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 2:48:25 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 10:55:00 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with features they
>>>>>> never use and only complicate matters. Half of the members of my club
>>>>>> with a Garmin with navigation capabilities can't even read the map
>>>>>> without reading glasses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>
>>>>> Number of folks I see with really quite high end Garmin/Wahoo/ etc and all
>>>>> they do is turn on and ride.
>>>> Same here after I disable all the unnecessary crap and set up the
>>>> basics for them. Our medical half (retired general practitioners and
>>>> specialists) of our group don't have a clue and don't care. How their
>>>> patients survived is still a puzzle to me ;-)
>>> One day I will figure out how to download route sheets of a century
>>> into the 830 for a century I've never done before. Is it better to have
>>> the capability and not use it or need the capability and not have it?
>>> The major problem is that people that are putting on the century have
>>> to know how to generate a Garmin friendly route sheet.
>> Route sheets? I think you don’t understand how it works yet. You only
>> need one guy that rides the route and record it to generate a gpx file,
>> hich anyone can download and put it in their Garmin. It is so easy.
>
> Lou, they have claimed these files to be available for a couple of
> centuries now and yet did not explain to the vast majority of people how
> to download them into their Garmin. Most Centuries make money for clubs
> and no one in the club has the ability to do a hard 100 miles. Of course
> they could drive it to record the route but then they have to know how it
> is all done and they have to put that information on the century website.
>
If folks have Strava as a large number will have, star the route and it
will auto magic appear on the Garmin/Wahoo etc.

Or drag and drop the GPX file if one wants to do it old school!

Either way it’s fairly easy stuff, I follow others routes quite regularly
be that other club members or occasionally events.

Roger Merriman

On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 12:00:42 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 6:59:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 3:27:47 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 2:48:25 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 10:55:00 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with features they
> >>>>>> never use and only complicate matters. Half of the members of my club
> >>>>>> with a Garmin with navigation capabilities can't even read the map
> >>>>>> without reading glasses.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Number of folks I see with really quite high end Garmin/Wahoo/ etc and all
> >>>>> they do is turn on and ride.
> >>>> Same here after I disable all the unnecessary crap and set up the
> >>>> basics for them. Our medical half (retired general practitioners and
> >>>> specialists) of our group don't have a clue and don't care. How their
> >>>> patients survived is still a puzzle to me ;-)
> >>> One day I will figure out how to download route sheets of a century
> >>> into the 830 for a century I've never done before. Is it better to have
> >>> the capability and not use it or need the capability and not have it?
> >>> The major problem is that people that are putting on the century have
> >>> to know how to generate a Garmin friendly route sheet.
> >> Route sheets? I think you don’t understand how it works yet. You only
> >> need one guy that rides the route and record it to generate a gpx file,
> >> hich anyone can download and put it in their Garmin. It is so easy.
> >
> > Lou, they have claimed these files to be available for a couple of
> > centuries now and yet did not explain to the vast majority of people how
> > to download them into their Garmin. Most Centuries make money for clubs
> > and no one in the club has the ability to do a hard 100 miles. Of course
> > they could drive it to record the route but then they have to know how it
> > is all done and they have to put that information on the century website.
> >
> If folks have Strava as a large number will have, star the route and it
> will auto magic appear on the Garmin/Wahoo etc.
>
> Or drag and drop the GPX file if one wants to do it old school!
>
> Either way it’s fairly easy stuff, I follow others routes quite regularly
> be that other club members or occasionally events.

Saturday after my ride I plugged my Garmin into the desktop and it updated the firmware yet again. This time is changed the base screen. Since I was doing a climbing ride today (max grade 11%, most of the climb 8% and significant distances of 10%) and the change of the base screen was to put "grade" in the main center, largest window I did bother to put everything back the way it was. It wasn't a lot of climbing - only 1500 feet in 25 miles but it was nice to get back climbing again. I could have significantly increased climbing and distance but someone was supposedly going to come look at the car I have on Craigslist. They of course canceled because they think that they can get a better car for less. Here's the sort of thing that they will end up with: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/d/alviso-2008-honda-civic-si-coupe/7486784751.html.

On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 12:00:42 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 6:59:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 3:27:47 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 2:48:25 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 10:55:00 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with features they
> >>>>>> never use and only complicate matters. Half of the members of my club
> >>>>>> with a Garmin with navigation capabilities can't even read the map
> >>>>>> without reading glasses.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Number of folks I see with really quite high end Garmin/Wahoo/ etc and all
> >>>>> they do is turn on and ride.
> >>>> Same here after I disable all the unnecessary crap and set up the
> >>>> basics for them. Our medical half (retired general practitioners and
> >>>> specialists) of our group don't have a clue and don't care. How their
> >>>> patients survived is still a puzzle to me ;-)
> >>> One day I will figure out how to download route sheets of a century
> >>> into the 830 for a century I've never done before. Is it better to have
> >>> the capability and not use it or need the capability and not have it?
> >>> The major problem is that people that are putting on the century have
> >>> to know how to generate a Garmin friendly route sheet.
> >> Route sheets? I think you don’t understand how it works yet. You only
> >> need one guy that rides the route and record it to generate a gpx file,
> >> hich anyone can download and put it in their Garmin. It is so easy.
> >
> > Lou, they have claimed these files to be available for a couple of
> > centuries now and yet did not explain to the vast majority of people how
> > to download them into their Garmin. Most Centuries make money for clubs
> > and no one in the club has the ability to do a hard 100 miles. Of course
> > they could drive it to record the route but then they have to know how it
> > is all done and they have to put that information on the century website.
> >
> If folks have Strava as a large number will have, star the route and it
> will auto magic appear on the Garmin/Wahoo etc.
>
> Or drag and drop the GPX file if one wants to do it old school!
>
> Either way it’s fairly easy stuff, I follow others routes quite regularly
> be that other club members or occasionally events.

Appaently the 830 has the Strava App built into it.

Today I went on a climbing ride. I felt that the Colnago C50 and Chorus group worked as close to perfect as possible. I probably have the rear derailleur cable tightened too much since it shifts right up but there is a slight delay shifting down. There is no noise from the front derailleur after setting it up with the plastic tool. Though the small cog does make noise. Not much and I'm not quite sure what is causing it. It occurs in both rings and it is a Centaur 11-32. The roads around here are simply too torn up to allow the bike to fly. So you are continually slowing the bike so that you can perceive a pothole far enough ahead to avoid it. These copies of the Dura Ace C50's that people complain about as counterfeit work nearly perfectly.. Rather than return the same route which was all downhill with one 50 foot climb and then riding through a section of totally destroyed road, I took a steep descent onto MacArthur Blvd and back all the way on the flats. Or more accurately rollers which I don't believe the Garmin reacts fast enough to record. I grew up in that area and rode by the high school I went to. Aside from the high school the place has been so degraded that people on the street look really downtrodden. Your Democrats at work.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 12:00:42 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 6:59:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 3:27:47 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 2:48:25 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 10:55:00 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with features they
>>>>>>>> never use and only complicate matters. Half of the members of my club
>>>>>>>> with a Garmin with navigation capabilities can't even read the map
>>>>>>>> without reading glasses.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Number of folks I see with really quite high end Garmin/Wahoo/ etc and all
>>>>>>> they do is turn on and ride.
>>>>>> Same here after I disable all the unnecessary crap and set up the
>>>>>> basics for them. Our medical half (retired general practitioners and
>>>>>> specialists) of our group don't have a clue and don't care. How their
>>>>>> patients survived is still a puzzle to me ;-)
>>>>> One day I will figure out how to download route sheets of a century
>>>>> into the 830 for a century I've never done before. Is it better to have
>>>>> the capability and not use it or need the capability and not have it?
>>>>> The major problem is that people that are putting on the century have
>>>>> to know how to generate a Garmin friendly route sheet.
>>>> Route sheets? I think you don’t understand how it works yet. You only
>>>> need one guy that rides the route and record it to generate a gpx file,
>>>> hich anyone can download and put it in their Garmin. It is so easy.
>>>
>>> Lou, they have claimed these files to be available for a couple of
>>> centuries now and yet did not explain to the vast majority of people how
>>> to download them into their Garmin. Most Centuries make money for clubs
>>> and no one in the club has the ability to do a hard 100 miles. Of course
>>> they could drive it to record the route but then they have to know how it
>>> is all done and they have to put that information on the century website.
>>>
>> If folks have Strava as a large number will have, star the route and it
>> will auto magic appear on the Garmin/Wahoo etc.
>>
>> Or drag and drop the GPX file if one wants to do it old school!
>>
>> Either way it’s fairly easy stuff, I follow others routes quite regularly
>> be that other club members or occasionally events.
>
> Appaently the 830 has the Strava App built into it.
>
> Today I went on a climbing ride. I felt that the Colnago C50 and Chorus
> group worked as close to perfect as possible. I probably have the rear
> derailleur cable tightened too much since it shifts right up but there
> is a slight delay shifting down. There is no noise from the front
> derailleur after setting it up with the plastic tool. Though the small
> cog does make noise. Not much and I'm not quite sure what is causing it.
> It occurs in both rings and it is a Centaur 11-32. The roads around here
> are simply too torn up to allow the bike to fly. So you are continually
> slowing the bike so that you can perceive a pothole far enough ahead to
> avoid it. These copies of the Dura Ace C50's that people complain about
> as counterfeit work nearly perfectly. Rather than return the same route
> which was all downhill with one 50 foot climb and then riding through a
> section of totally destroyed road, I took a steep descent onto MacArthur
> Blvd and back all the way on the flats. Or more accurately rollers which
> I don't believe the Garmin reacts fast enough to record. I grew up in
> that area and rode by the high school I went to. Aside from the high
> school the place has been so degraded that people on the street look
> really downtrodden. Your Democrats at work.
>
You can use the Strava app but it’s cleaner easier to link Garmin/Strava
accounts so routes/segments etc will auto magic sync across particularly
since the 830 will Sync via WiFi as well as via the phone or yes even via
the usb cable.

It also has trailforks baked in, which is MTB stuff. Plenty of other apps
though I personally don’t use them.

Roger Merriman

On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 3:29:32 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 12:00:42 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 6:59:08 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 3:27:47 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 2:48:25 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 10:55:00 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > >>>>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with features they
> > >>>>>> never use and only complicate matters. Half of the members of my club
> > >>>>>> with a Garmin with navigation capabilities can't even read the map
> > >>>>>> without reading glasses.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Lou
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> Number of folks I see with really quite high end Garmin/Wahoo/ etc and all
> > >>>>> they do is turn on and ride.
> > >>>> Same here after I disable all the unnecessary crap and set up the
> > >>>> basics for them. Our medical half (retired general practitioners and
> > >>>> specialists) of our group don't have a clue and don't care. How their
> > >>>> patients survived is still a puzzle to me ;-)
> > >>> One day I will figure out how to download route sheets of a century
> > >>> into the 830 for a century I've never done before. Is it better to have
> > >>> the capability and not use it or need the capability and not have it?
> > >>> The major problem is that people that are putting on the century have
> > >>> to know how to generate a Garmin friendly route sheet.
> > >> Route sheets? I think you don’t understand how it works yet. You only
> > >> need one guy that rides the route and record it to generate a gpx file,
> > >> hich anyone can download and put it in their Garmin. It is so easy.
> > >
> > > Lou, they have claimed these files to be available for a couple of
> > > centuries now and yet did not explain to the vast majority of people how
> > > to download them into their Garmin. Most Centuries make money for clubs
> > > and no one in the club has the ability to do a hard 100 miles. Of course
> > > they could drive it to record the route but then they have to know how it
> > > is all done and they have to put that information on the century website.
> > >
> > If folks have Strava as a large number will have, star the route and it
> > will auto magic appear on the Garmin/Wahoo etc.
> >
> > Or drag and drop the GPX file if one wants to do it old school!
> >
> > Either way it’s fairly easy stuff, I follow others routes quite regularly
> > be that other club members or occasionally events.
> Appaently the 830 has the Strava App built into it.
>
> Today I went on a climbing ride. I felt that the Colnago C50 and Chorus group worked as close to perfect as possible. I probably have the rear derailleur cable tightened too much since it shifts right up but there is a slight delay shifting down. There is no noise from the front derailleur after setting it up with the plastic tool. Though the small cog does make noise. Not much and I'm not quite sure what is causing it. It occurs in both rings and it is a Centaur 11-32. The roads around here are simply too torn up to allow the bike to fly. So you are continually slowing the bike so that you can perceive a pothole far enough ahead to avoid it. These copies of the Dura Ace C50's that people complain about as counterfeit work nearly perfectly. Rather than return the same route which was all downhill with one 50 foot climb and then riding through a section of totally destroyed road, I took a steep descent onto MacArthur Blvd and back all the way on the flats. Or more accurately rollers which I don't believe the Garmin reacts fast enough to record. I grew up in that area and rode by the high school I went to. Aside from the high school the place has been so degraded that people on the street look really downtrodden. Your Democrats at work.

Ronald Reagan, Republican, was governor of California from 1967 to 1975.