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tech / rec.crafts.metalworking / Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

SubjectAuthor
* Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYBob La Londe
+* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYLeon Fisk
|+* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYJim Wilkins
||`- Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYpyotr filipivich
|+- Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYJim Wilkins
|`* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYpyotr filipivich
| `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYLeon Fisk
|  +- Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYpyotr filipivich
|  `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYSnag
|   `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYJim Wilkins
|    `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYSnag
|     `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYJim Wilkins
|      `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYSnag
|       `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYBob La Londe
|        `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYSnag
|         `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYBob La Londe
|          `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYCarl
|           `- MARKING: Was - Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYBob La Londe
+- Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYJim Wilkins
`* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYJames Waldby
 `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYBob La Londe
  `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYJim Wilkins
   `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYJim Wilkins
    `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYBob La Londe
     `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYJim Wilkins
      `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYBob La Londe
       `* Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYJim Wilkins
        `- Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAYJim Wilkins

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Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2022 12:29:26 -0700
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 by: Bob La Londe - Sun, 13 Mar 2022 19:29 UTC

No matter how large or small my shop space is always an issue. So what
big in the way things do you have that you only use occasionally, but
when you need them they are invaluable. For me there are a few. Cherry
picker, welding table, engine stand, pallet jack... almost every farm
implement in the yard. There are probably more, but these are always in
the way. I don't want to set stuff out by the canal, and some of it I
don't even want to leave outside. No point in having a hydraulic
anything if the ram is rusted and cuts your seals when you need it, but
its always in the way. I used both the pallet jack and the cherry picker
to set the new air compressor in place, but now they are in the way
again. FRACK!

--
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Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

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From: lfis...@gmail.invalid (Leon Fisk)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2022 16:30:45 -0400
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 by: Leon Fisk - Sun, 13 Mar 2022 20:30 UTC

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 12:29:26 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

>No matter how large or small my shop space is always an issue. So what
>big in the way things do you have that you only use occasionally, but
>when you need them they are invaluable. For me there are a few. Cherry
>picker, welding table, engine stand, pallet jack... almost every farm
>implement in the yard. There are probably more, but these are always in
>the way. I don't want to set stuff out by the canal, and some of it I
>don't even want to leave outside. No point in having a hydraulic
>anything if the ram is rusted and cuts your seals when you need it, but
>its always in the way. I used both the pallet jack and the cherry picker
>to set the new air compressor in place, but now they are in the way
>again. FRACK!

Yup! Either have the stuff to do things but no room to do it... or
have the room to do stuff but nothing to do it with... It is a
conundrum and I have a severe problem with the prior ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2022 21:43:59 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Mon, 14 Mar 2022 01:43 UTC

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t0lgml$rk5$1@dont-email.me...

No matter how large or small my shop space is always an issue. So what
big in the way things do you have that you only use occasionally, but
when you need them they are invaluable. For me there are a few. Cherry
picker, welding table, engine stand, pallet jack... almost every farm
implement in the yard. There are probably more, but these are always in
the way. I don't want to set stuff out by the canal, and some of it I
don't even want to leave outside. No point in having a hydraulic
anything if the ram is rusted and cuts your seals when you need it, but
its always in the way. I used both the pallet jack and the cherry picker
to set the new air compressor in place, but now they are in the way
again. FRACK!

-----------------------

My semi-adequate answer was to create covered outdoor storage with
tarp-covered sides, originally for firewood and now for equipment as I use
up the wood. The cherry picker (shop crane, engine hoist) and log splitter
live together in the same space under the rug+tarp covered deck behind the
house, the cherry picker partly disassembled and splitter suspended above
it. LPS-3 protects their hydraulic rams from rust and contains the rust
already on other parts. I put larger wheels on the cherry picker so it can
roll on dirt and serve as a trailer behind my tractor. It's a Hoosier
industrial model that doesn't fold.

The Northern and HF camo wall tarps typically last at least 5 years if they
rub on something and 10 if they don't. They are attached with screws and
fender washers at the top and clipped together along the sides, so they
raise out of the way for full access. They are shaded by trees from summer
sun and this area normally isn't windy but we do have occasional strong
squalls and wind storms which they survive well.

My welding table is ~4' square by 1/4" thick (?), a shop-made one I traded
for. I cut the legs and made them bolt on to reduce its storage thickness
and added wheels on one edge to roll it around. It stores under the tarp on
a wood shed. It's also the stand for my arbor press and HF manual tire
changers.

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

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Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2022 22:16:35 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Mon, 14 Mar 2022 02:16 UTC

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:t0lk9m$ar$1@dont-email.me...

Yup! Either have the stuff to do things but no room to do it... or
have the room to do stuff but nothing to do it with... It is a
conundrum and I have a severe problem with the prior ;-)

When I needed an 18" retaining wall at the end of a new section of driveway
I framed and decked two feet behind it as a work platform, covered with
outdoor carpeting that keeps hardware from falling between the planks.
Although it's too low to be a workbench it raises snowblowers etc high
enough to work on comfortably and is a good safe and clean place to put down
tools. It lifts low tables to standing height for temporary work benches for
jobs that can't or shouldn't be done indoors.

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

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Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Mon, 14 Mar 2022 13:27 UTC

"Clare Snyder" wrote in message
news:ttgt2hh7p9fgkf896f7jv31sp0v6hpm0hm@4ax.com...

You need a shed - something like a "pole barn" like we call "drive-in
sheds" or "driving sheds" -closed on 3 sides and roof and the "good
ones" get sliding "barn doors" in the 4th side.

-------------------------

After a large fallen branch bashed in the roof and sliding doors of my metal
shed I rebuilt it by framing and stiffening the bent steel doors with 1x3s
and secured it by hinging the entrance ramp to fold up in front of them,
locked with chains from beyond the doors to an eye centered under the ramp.
A hinge end extension under the ramp supports it when lowered.

The doors rest on a lip of the floor platform and an added roof
reinforcement outside retains them from falling forward. The unattached
doors are actually easier to open and close than when they were on tracks. I
keep some sort of raised flat surface near doors so I can open and close
them with both hands free. For that door it's a stack of cribbing timbers.
Folding plastic patio tables take up less space but hold less weight.

Some of my firewood sheds are literally pole barns, framed with tree-trunk
poles fitted together by chainsaw. The tops of roof beams were free-hand
planed adequately straight and flat by using the bar width and tilt angle to
guide the saw. Corrugated steel twists freely enough to accommodate
remaining waviness.

In spring I extend some of the roofs with corrugated steel on 2x4 rafters to
provide rain-sheltered work space for the log splitter and sawmill, and
temporary covered storage. Except for the overhead gantry hoist they have no
outer end columns blocking travel, so the panels won't survive a winter snow
load, though the PT frame does. The roof panels are tied down instead of
drilled and screwed and can be installed anywhere.

Since firewood can spread rot until it dries the shed floors and end walls
are 40" x 48" pallets, solid ones on PT scrap for the floor and lower
quality for the walls. The pallets support and minimize wind damage to the
cover tarps. These sheds have held up well to heavy snow and strong winds
for 10~20 years.

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

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 by: pyotr filipivich - Mon, 14 Mar 2022 16:43 UTC

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> on Sun, 13 Mar 2022 22:16:35
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:t0lk9m$ar$1@dont-email.me...
>
>Yup! Either have the stuff to do things but no room to do it... or
>have the room to do stuff but nothing to do it with... It is a
>conundrum and I have a severe problem with the prior ;-)
>
>When I needed an 18" retaining wall at the end of a new section of driveway
>I framed and decked two feet behind it as a work platform, covered with
>outdoor carpeting that keeps hardware from falling between the planks.
>Although it's too low to be a workbench it raises snowblowers etc high
>enough to work on comfortably and is a good safe and clean place to put down
>tools. It lifts low tables to standing height for temporary work benches for
>jobs that can't or shouldn't be done indoors.

Clever.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

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 by: pyotr filipivich - Mon, 14 Mar 2022 16:43 UTC

Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> on Sun, 13 Mar 2022 16:30:45 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 12:29:26 -0700
>Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
>
>>No matter how large or small my shop space is always an issue. So what
>>big in the way things do you have that you only use occasionally, but
>>when you need them they are invaluable. For me there are a few. Cherry
>>picker, welding table, engine stand, pallet jack... almost every farm
>>implement in the yard. There are probably more, but these are always in
>>the way. I don't want to set stuff out by the canal, and some of it I
>>don't even want to leave outside. No point in having a hydraulic
>>anything if the ram is rusted and cuts your seals when you need it, but
>>its always in the way. I used both the pallet jack and the cherry picker
>>to set the new air compressor in place, but now they are in the way
>>again. FRACK!
>
>Yup! Either have the stuff to do things but no room to do it... or
>have the room to do stuff but nothing to do it with... It is a
>conundrum and I have a severe problem with the prior ;-)

B-) "downsize!" I no longer have the room or the stuff to do
things with.
Oh well, I always was a sort of "old school" kind of guy.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

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Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
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 by: Leon Fisk - Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:51 UTC

On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:43:56 -0700
pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

<snip>
>B-) "downsize!" I no longer have the room or the stuff to do
>things with.
> Oh well, I always was a sort of "old school" kind of guy.

The fire-in-the-belly is gone... but I still find some comfort in
knowing I have the "stuff" to make and fix things ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

<6r7v2htghfgln28c5sf7jejlhf2su16aja@4ax.com>

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From: pha...@mindspring.com (pyotr filipivich)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 13:03:26 -0700
Organization: Fortesque Industrial Labs
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 by: pyotr filipivich - Mon, 14 Mar 2022 20:03 UTC

Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> on Mon, 14 Mar 2022 13:51:01 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:43:56 -0700
>pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
>>B-) "downsize!" I no longer have the room or the stuff to do
>>things with.
>> Oh well, I always was a sort of "old school" kind of guy.
>
>The fire-in-the-belly is gone... but I still find some comfort in
>knowing I have the "stuff" to make and fix things ;-)

Yeah. I have the one tool bag "just in case".
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

<t0o972$k2b$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=5677&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#5677

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From: Snag_...@msn.com (Snag)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 15:40:02 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Snag - Mon, 14 Mar 2022 20:40 UTC

On 3/14/2022 12:51 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:43:56 -0700
> pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> B-) "downsize!" I no longer have the room or the stuff to do
>> things with.
>> Oh well, I always was a sort of "old school" kind of guy.
>
> The fire-in-the-belly is gone... but I still find some comfort in
> knowing I have the "stuff" to make and fix things ;-)
>

I just a few minutes ago finished machining some bushings for the
truck carb . Quadrajet primary throttle shaft was a bit loose . I'm
doing a total rebuild of the motor , and it's just one detail after
another . Fortunately I still have all my "stuff" - and still collectin' .
--
Snag
My rights don't end
where your fear begins .

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

<t0ob9v$16e$1@dont-email.me>

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:15:00 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Mon, 14 Mar 2022 21:15 UTC

"Snag" wrote in message news:t0o972$k2b$1@dont-email.me...

I just a few minutes ago finished machining some bushings for the
truck carb . Quadrajet primary throttle shaft was a bit loose . I'm
doing a total rebuild of the motor , and it's just one detail after
another . Fortunately I still have all my "stuff" - and still collectin' .
-----------------

How do you figure the press fit and the shaft clearance?

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

<t0p3o5$5ue$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Snag_...@msn.com (Snag)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 23:12:53 -0500
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 by: Snag - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 04:12 UTC

On 3/14/2022 4:15 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t0o972$k2b$1@dont-email.me...
>   I just a few minutes ago finished machining some bushings for the
> truck carb . Quadrajet primary throttle shaft was a bit loose . I'm
> doing a total rebuild of the motor , and it's just one detail after
> another . Fortunately I still have all my "stuff" - and still collectin' .
> -----------------
>
> How do you figure the press fit and the shaft clearance?

A thou over on both , they don't need to be all that tight . I'm
going to put the bushings on a mandrel and do a light knurl on them .
Put a little loctite on before I press them home .
--
Snag
My rights don't end
where your fear begins .

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

<t0qfp4$ptp$1@dont-email.me>

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 12:43:37 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 16:43 UTC

"Snag" wrote in message news:t0p3o5$5ue$1@dont-email.me...

On 3/14/2022 4:15 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Snag" wrote in message news:t0o972$k2b$1@dont-email.me...
> I just a few minutes ago finished machining some bushings for the truck
> carb . Quadrajet primary throttle shaft was a bit loose . I'm doing a
> total rebuild of the motor , and it's just one detail after another .
> Fortunately I still have all my "stuff" - and still collectin' .
> -----------------
>
> How do you figure the press fit and the shaft clearance?

A thou over on both , they don't need to be all that tight . I'm
going to put the bushings on a mandrel and do a light knurl on them .
Put a little loctite on before I press them home .

------------------

Do you do anything special to ensure that both bores are aligned?

I fortunately found cheap used 0.499" and 0.501" reamers that I extended to
guide them between two separated bushing locations. Without them I don't
know how I could have aligned both pairs of holes, which were the frame and
bucket pivots on my DIY front end loader.

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

<t0qhne$ble$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Snag_...@msn.com (Snag)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 12:17:21 -0500
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 by: Snag - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 17:17 UTC

On 3/15/2022 11:43 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t0p3o5$5ue$1@dont-email.me...
>
> On 3/14/2022 4:15 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:t0o972$k2b$1@dont-email.me...
>>    I just a few minutes ago finished machining some bushings for the
>> truck carb . Quadrajet primary throttle shaft was a bit loose . I'm
>> doing a total rebuild of the motor , and it's just one detail after
>> another . Fortunately I still have all my "stuff" - and still
>> collectin' .
>> -----------------
>>
>> How do you figure the press fit and the shaft clearance?
>
>   A thou over on both , they don't need to be all that tight . I'm
> going to put the bushings on a mandrel and do a light knurl on them .
> Put a little loctite on before I press them home .
>
> ------------------
>
> Do you do anything special to ensure that both bores are aligned?
>
> I fortunately found cheap used 0.499" and 0.501" reamers that I extended
> to guide them between two separated bushing locations. Without them I
> don't know how I could have aligned both pairs of holes, which were the
> frame and bucket pivots on my DIY front end loader.
>

The plan is to bolt the carb base to an L block or possibly use my
big vise , then use a piece of 5/16" drill rod chucked in a collet to
align things . A couple of clamp dogs and Bob's yer Uncle .
--
Snag
My rights don't end
where your fear begins .

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

<t0qnl3$u3h$1@dont-email.me>

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 11:58:44 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Bob La Londe - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 18:58 UTC

On 3/15/2022 10:17 AM, Snag wrote:
.. A couple of clamp dogs and Bob's yer Uncle .

I AM NOT!

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

<t0quk3$qf8$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Snag_...@msn.com (Snag)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 15:57:40 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Snag - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 20:57 UTC

On 3/15/2022 1:58 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 3/15/2022 10:17 AM, Snag wrote:
> . A couple of clamp dogs and Bob's yer Uncle .
>
>
> I AM NOT!
>
>

R2 R2 R2 !

I have decided to make another set of bushings . The ones you buy are
..344" OD , which is fine . The ones I made first are .348" because that
matches a drill bit that I have . But I think I want to go to .375" and
use an end mill to cut the pocket for the new bushing . Shorter , more
rigid , and most importantly more accurate hole size .
Or I could pop for the special reamer that costs 40 bucks and I'll
probably only use once ... No , I got all these tools might as well use
'em .
--
Snag
My rights don't end
where your fear begins .

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

<t0r2b6$okh$1@dont-email.me>

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 15:01:09 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Bob La Londe - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 22:01 UTC

On 3/15/2022 1:57 PM, Snag wrote:
> On 3/15/2022 1:58 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> On 3/15/2022 10:17 AM, Snag wrote:
>> . A couple of clamp dogs and Bob's yer Uncle .
>>
>>
>> I AM NOT!
>>
>>
>
>  R2 R2 R2 !
>
>   I have decided to make another set of bushings . The ones you buy are
> .344" OD , which is fine . The ones I made first are .348" because that
> matches a drill bit that I have . But I think I want to go to .375" and
> use an end mill to cut the pocket for the new bushing . Shorter , more
> rigid , and most importantly more accurate hole size .
>   Or I could pop for the special reamer that costs 40 bucks and I'll
> probably only use once ... No , I got all these tools might as well use
> 'em .

Tangent alert!!!!!

I picked up a D-bit grinder a while back. I throw away empty end mill
tubes, because the end mills go in a tool holder where they live out
their life. When they come out of a tool holder they go in a little
kitchen pot I have in the shop.

The pot is full of just scrap carbide. I though I might sell it some
day. Now I make things out of worn out and broken end mills.

I've used the D-bit grinder to make a fair number of things, but
recently I started making real tools with the D-Bit (Tool & Cutter)
grinder. 10 degree dovetail cutter for making an insert blade holder.
7 degree taper mill for making insert lathe tooling, etc, etc.

I'm starting to get a small collection of these shop made carbide
cutters in the cart for my manual knee mill. So far I can still
remember the specs on most of them, but I know it won't be all that long
before I pick up one of those shop made tools and have no clue what the
specs are much less what I made it for. Ever try to label carbide? LOL.

Now I'm really wishing I hadn't thrown all those end mill tubes away.
They hold labels or even just marker ink pretty well.

How I got there from here. Carbide D-bits make fair reamers if you can
get the cutting diameter right. Once you get that figured out you can
make any size you want. Maybe someday I'll be that good.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

<EybYJ.188473$SeK9.27378@fx97.iad>

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From: carl.ija...@yyverizon.net (Carl)
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 by: Carl - Wed, 16 Mar 2022 02:02 UTC

On 3/15/22 18:01, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 3/15/2022 1:57 PM, Snag wrote:
>> On 3/15/2022 1:58 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> On 3/15/2022 10:17 AM, Snag wrote:
>>> . A couple of clamp dogs and Bob's yer Uncle .
>>>
>>>
>>> I AM NOT!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>   R2 R2 R2 !
>>
>>    I have decided to make another set of bushings . The ones you buy
>> are .344" OD , which is fine . The ones I made first are .348" because
>> that matches a drill bit that I have . But I think I want to go to
>> .375" and use an end mill to cut the pocket for the new bushing .
>> Shorter , more rigid , and most importantly more accurate hole size .
>>    Or I could pop for the special reamer that costs 40 bucks and I'll
>> probably only use once ... No , I got all these tools might as well
>> use 'em .
>
>
> Tangent alert!!!!!
>
> I picked up a D-bit grinder a while back.  I throw away empty end mill
> tubes, because the end mills go in a tool holder where they live out
> their life.  When they come out of a tool holder they go in a little
> kitchen pot I have in the shop.
>
> The pot is full of just scrap carbide.  I though I might sell it some
> day.  Now I make things out of worn out and broken end mills.
>
> I've used the D-bit grinder to make a fair number of things, but
> recently I started making real tools with the D-Bit (Tool & Cutter)
> grinder.  10 degree dovetail cutter for making an insert blade holder. 7
> degree taper mill for making insert lathe tooling, etc, etc.
>
> I'm starting to get a small collection of these shop made carbide
> cutters in the cart for my manual knee mill.  So far I can still
> remember the specs on most of them, but I know it won't be all that long
> before I pick up one of those shop made tools and have no clue what the
> specs are much less what I made it for.  Ever try to label carbide?  LOL.
>
> Now I'm really wishing I hadn't thrown all those end mill tubes away.
> They hold labels or even just marker ink pretty well.
>
> How I got there from here.  Carbide D-bits make fair reamers if you can
> get the cutting diameter right.  Once you get that figured out you can
> make any size you want.  Maybe someday I'll be that good.

Rabbit hole alert!!! :-)

I've never done this with tungsten carbide, but have you ever heard of
labeling by electroetching? Basically you take something you want to
label and attach the positive lead from a low voltage DC power supply.
Stick on a stencil, then rub over the stencil with a negative electrode
covered with a piece of cotton swab or felt and dripping with
electrolyte solution. With the correct electrolyte chemistry and
voltage you lightly etch the surface in seconds. Remove stencil and
wash off the electrolyte. If the contrast is good enough, you are done.
If not, the etched surface is rougher than the original surface and
will hold ink from a Sharpie.

I did some Googling and found a couple of hits worth a quick look.
First is a company that sells systems and electrolytes:
https://www.trendmarking.com.au/metal-etching-systems.html They include
an electrolyte for "carbides" but don't say which ones and of course
give no ingredients for any of their stuff. They do have some good,
brief how-to info and videos. Second is a how-to video using salt and
vinegar as the electrolyte, a 12V car jump start battery, and q-tips to
hold the electrolyte with stick-on stencils, marking sizes on
chrome-plated steel sockets:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILPQDXV_Rf0&ab_channel=TrendMarkingSystems
Years ago I played with marking mild steel and stainless with
basically this setup. It worked but I wanted some pretty small letters
and I'm much better at "functional" than "pretty" so I gave up working
with stencils pretty quickly :-).

I'd try following the setup in the second video on a piece of scrap
carbide, not bothering with a stencil. Just wet the q-tip and hold it
on the surface in one place and see if you get any reaction. If that
doesn't work try a concentrated solution of baking soda and table salt,
but I think that is less likely to work. Maybe try some Oxyclean and
table salt dissolved in 3% hydrogen peroxide, with and without some
baking soda. Not sure what else around the house might work as an
electrolyte.

Of course, if you had one of those 50-ish watt CO2 laser cutters you
should be able to laser mark it :-). Anyway, good luck.

--
Regards,
Carl

MARKING: Was - Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

<t0t65i$p01$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: MARKING: Was - Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 10:18:40 -0700
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Bob La Londe - Wed, 16 Mar 2022 17:18 UTC

On 3/15/2022 7:02 PM, Carl wrote:
> On 3/15/22 18:01, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> On 3/15/2022 1:57 PM, Snag wrote:
>>> On 3/15/2022 1:58 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>>> On 3/15/2022 10:17 AM, Snag wrote:
>>>> . A couple of clamp dogs and Bob's yer Uncle .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I AM NOT!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>   R2 R2 R2 !
>>>
>>>    I have decided to make another set of bushings . The ones you buy
>>> are .344" OD , which is fine . The ones I made first are .348"
>>> because that matches a drill bit that I have . But I think I want to
>>> go to .375" and use an end mill to cut the pocket for the new bushing
>>> . Shorter , more rigid , and most importantly more accurate hole size .
>>>    Or I could pop for the special reamer that costs 40 bucks and I'll
>>> probably only use once ... No , I got all these tools might as well
>>> use 'em .
>>
>>
>> Tangent alert!!!!!
>>
>> I picked up a D-bit grinder a while back.  I throw away empty end mill
>> tubes, because the end mills go in a tool holder where they live out
>> their life.  When they come out of a tool holder they go in a little
>> kitchen pot I have in the shop.
>>
>> The pot is full of just scrap carbide.  I though I might sell it some
>> day.  Now I make things out of worn out and broken end mills.
>>
>> I've used the D-bit grinder to make a fair number of things, but
>> recently I started making real tools with the D-Bit (Tool & Cutter)
>> grinder.  10 degree dovetail cutter for making an insert blade holder.
>> 7 degree taper mill for making insert lathe tooling, etc, etc.
>>
>> I'm starting to get a small collection of these shop made carbide
>> cutters in the cart for my manual knee mill.  So far I can still
>> remember the specs on most of them, but I know it won't be all that
>> long before I pick up one of those shop made tools and have no clue
>> what the specs are much less what I made it for.  Ever try to label
>> carbide?  LOL.
>>
>> Now I'm really wishing I hadn't thrown all those end mill tubes away.
>> They hold labels or even just marker ink pretty well.
>>
>> How I got there from here.  Carbide D-bits make fair reamers if you
>> can get the cutting diameter right.  Once you get that figured out you
>> can make any size you want.  Maybe someday I'll be that good.
>
> Rabbit hole alert!!!   :-)
>
> I've never done this with tungsten carbide, but have you ever heard of
> labeling by electroetching?  Basically you take something you want to
> label and attach the positive lead from a low voltage DC power supply.
> Stick on a stencil, then rub over the stencil with a negative electrode
> covered with a piece of cotton swab or felt and dripping with
> electrolyte solution.  With the correct electrolyte chemistry and
> voltage you lightly etch the surface in seconds.  Remove stencil and
> wash off the electrolyte.  If the contrast is good enough, you are done.
>  If not, the etched surface is rougher than the original surface and
> will hold ink from a Sharpie.
>
> I did some Googling and found a couple of hits worth a quick look. First
> is a company that sells systems and electrolytes:
> https://www.trendmarking.com.au/metal-etching-systems.html  They include
> an electrolyte for "carbides" but don't say which ones and of course
> give no ingredients for any of their stuff.  They do have some good,
> brief how-to info and videos.  Second is a how-to video using salt and
> vinegar as the electrolyte, a 12V car jump start battery, and q-tips to
> hold the electrolyte with stick-on stencils, marking sizes on
> chrome-plated steel sockets:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILPQDXV_Rf0&ab_channel=TrendMarkingSystems
>  Years ago I played with marking mild steel and stainless with
> basically this setup.  It worked but I wanted some pretty small letters
> and I'm much better at "functional" than "pretty" so I gave up working
> with stencils pretty quickly :-).
>
> I'd try following the setup in the second video on a piece of scrap
> carbide, not bothering with a stencil.  Just wet the q-tip and hold it
> on the surface in one place and see if you get any reaction.  If that
> doesn't work try a concentrated solution of baking soda and table salt,
> but I think that is less likely to work.  Maybe try some Oxyclean and
> table salt dissolved in 3% hydrogen peroxide, with and without some
> baking soda.  Not sure what else around the house might work as an
> electrolyte.
>
> Of course, if you had one of those 50-ish watt CO2 laser cutters you
> should be able to laser mark it :-).  Anyway, good luck.
>

Tungsten carbide is some pretty hard stuff. I may try to some
electrochemical etching just to see if it will work, but I think going
forward I'm just going to start a "pot" for empty mill tubes.

Tangent to the rabbit hole in the tangent.

Mustard. I had a local knife maker tell me he hires out laser engraving
for his products now, but in the past he would use stencils and mustard
to mark high carbon steels. I never asked how it worked on the shinier
alloys like 15N20 or 440C, but it sounded like an option for occasional
marking.

--
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Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

<t10o5a$53q$1@dont-email.me>

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From: j-wal...@no.no (James Waldby)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 01:44:10 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: James Waldby - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 01:44 UTC

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
> No matter how large or small my shop space is always an issue. So what
> big in the way things do you have that you only use occasionally, but
> when you need them they are invaluable. For me there are a few. Cherry
> picker, welding table, engine stand, pallet jack... almost every farm
> implement in the yard. There are probably more, but these are always in
> the way. I don't want to set stuff out by the canal, and some of it I
> don't even want to leave outside. No point in having a hydraulic
> anything if the ram is rusted and cuts your seals when you need it, but
> its always in the way. I used both the pallet jack and the cherry picker
> to set the new air compressor in place, but now they are in the way
> again. FRACK!

This may be your chance to buy a forklift! On the plus side, you
could stack stuff up to save floor space and could move equipment and
stock more easily. On the minus side, forklifts aren't free, and
there would be other costs in making the idea work, like shelving or a
mezzanine, because of items that don't stack well without shelving.
While the forklift itself would take up floor space, it could park
under a mezzanine.

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

<t10p75$at1$1@dont-email.me>

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2022 19:02:14 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Bob La Londe - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 02:02 UTC

On 3/17/2022 6:44 PM, James Waldby wrote:
> Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
>> No matter how large or small my shop space is always an issue. So what
>> big in the way things do you have that you only use occasionally, but
>> when you need them they are invaluable. For me there are a few. Cherry
>> picker, welding table, engine stand, pallet jack... almost every farm
>> implement in the yard. There are probably more, but these are always in
>> the way. I don't want to set stuff out by the canal, and some of it I
>> don't even want to leave outside. No point in having a hydraulic
>> anything if the ram is rusted and cuts your seals when you need it, but
>> its always in the way. I used both the pallet jack and the cherry picker
>> to set the new air compressor in place, but now they are in the way
>> again. FRACK!
>
> This may be your chance to buy a forklift! On the plus side, you
> could stack stuff up to save floor space and could move equipment and
> stock more easily. On the minus side, forklifts aren't free, and
> there would be other costs in making the idea work, like shelving or a
> mezzanine, because of items that don't stack well without shelving.
> While the forklift itself would take up floor space, it could park
> under a mezzanine.

I would love to have a fork lift. Yep, they are not free.

--
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Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 07:16:16 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 11:16 UTC

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t10p75$at1$1@dont-email.me...

I would love to have a fork lift. Yep, they are not free.
----------------------
My manual platform stacker cost me $10, plus a rebuild of the hydraulic
cylinder. After I overloaded and broke it I found that a lever chain hoist
is a good substitute, with other uses. It's a locally built version of the
Wesco lift. Mine effectively occupies no space because I store things on the
platform.

At the auction the one that still worked sold for $125.

Here's an example, chosen for its short URL.
https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Lift-MPS0859-Operated-Platform/dp/B075MSS26W

There are also fork versions for pallets.

It's heavy, but with the platform fully raised for balance I could hook the
handle onto the tailgate and tip and slide it into the 7' bed of my Ranger
to bring it home.

-jsw

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
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Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 21:34 UTC

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:t11pnb$ikk$1@dont-email.me...

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t10p75$at1$1@dont-email.me...

I would love to have a fork lift. Yep, they are not free.
----------------------

I happened to stop at a couple of second-hand machinery dealers today.
Compact manual lifts ran $2500 ~$3500 for electric pallet forklifts to ~$600
(half new price) for a hand truck with a hydraulic lift platform.

Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

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From: non...@none.com99 (Bob La Londe)
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Subject: Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY
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 by: Bob La Londe - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 17:06 UTC

On 3/18/2022 2:34 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Jim Wilkins"  wrote in message news:t11pnb$ikk$1@dont-email.me...
>
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t10p75$at1$1@dont-email.me...
>
> I would love to have a fork lift. Yep, they are not free.
> ----------------------
>
> I happened to stop at a couple of second-hand machinery dealers today.
> Compact manual lifts ran $2500 ~$3500 for electric pallet forklifts to
> ~$600 (half new price) for a hand truck with a hydraulic lift platform.

I do have slip on pallet forks for my tractor loader. The bucket is
rated for 750lbs, easily manages 1000s, and can tilt back 1500-2000
after the main hydraulics are fully loaded. I unloaded my 1440 lathe
and my 48" Tennsmith brake with it using that last method. Full load
the main hydraulic, and then tilt back the bucket tilt hydraulic. The
tractor is to big to maneuver in the shop. Usually I can lift off a
piece of equipment and tote it around the shop on the pallet jack. It
also doesn't really reach high enough for putting stuff up high in the
shop (16ft eve height).

--
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Re: Indispensable, but ALWAYS IN THE WAY

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 by: Jim Wilkins - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 18:07 UTC

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t152ip$cvt$1@dont-email.me...

On 3/18/2022 2:34 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:t11pnb$ikk$1@dont-email.me...
>
> "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t10p75$at1$1@dont-email.me...
>
> I would love to have a fork lift. Yep, they are not free.
> ----------------------
>
> I happened to stop at a couple of second-hand machinery dealers today.
> Compact manual lifts ran $2500 ~$3500 for electric pallet forklifts to
> ~$600 (half new price) for a hand truck with a hydraulic lift platform.

I do have slip on pallet forks for my tractor loader. The bucket is
rated for 750lbs, easily manages 1000s, and can tilt back 1500-2000
after the main hydraulics are fully loaded. I unloaded my 1440 lathe
and my 48" Tennsmith brake with it using that last method. Full load
the main hydraulic, and then tilt back the bucket tilt hydraulic. The
tractor is to big to maneuver in the shop. Usually I can lift off a
piece of equipment and tote it around the shop on the pallet jack. It
also doesn't really reach high enough for putting stuff up high in the
shop (16ft eve height).
---------------------------

When the clerk asked how big and how high I guessed you wanted to lift a
mold on or off a milling machine table instead of a higher pallet rack. I
was looking for more 3" channel iron to extend my sawmill track and also
inquired for you about the current street value of used manual and electric
lifts that can maneuver in tight spaces. I didn't mention that you were in
Arizona instead of local.

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