For the past few years been running Conti GP 4000's and then the 5000's. I like them they roll well and I get tremendous mileage on them. I can usually get 6000 miles. I swap the front to the rear after about 2200 and then ride them out. I just put an new set on the front no completely worn for sure but I can save it for spare.

My question is if there are better options for the price point. i can get Conti's for around $55. I don't like slow tires and so far rarely flat. However would like to know some other options for riding? Given I prefer speedier tires but don't want to be swapping them out ever 2k.
Deacon Mark

On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 13:18:32 -0700 (PDT),
Mark Cleary <deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:
> For the past few years been running Conti GP 4000's and then
> the 5000's. I like them they roll well and I get tremendous
> mileage on them. I can usually get 6000 miles. I swap the front
> to the rear after about 2200 and then ride them out. I just put
> an new set on the front no completely worn for sure but I can
> save it for spare.
>
> My question is if there are better options for the price point.
> i can get Conti's for around $55. I don't like slow tires and
> so far rarely flat. However would like to know some other
> options for riding? Given I prefer speedier tires but don't
> want to be swapping them out ever 2k. Deacon Mark

I ran the GPs pretty consistently for years with good results. At
one point I bout a batch of Conti Ultra Sports (I think), and
found they were a beast to mount on my Ritchey single rims. So I
went back to the GPs on that bike and have been using up the Ultra
Sports on the tandem. For some reason those rims are easier to
get the tires onto. The tires themselves seem to about the same
as the GPs in ride and durability, but I don't pay close attention
and I could be wrong.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 1:18:34 PM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> For the past few years been running Conti GP 4000's and then the 5000's. I like them they roll well and I get tremendous mileage on them. I can usually get 6000 miles. I swap the front to the rear after about 2200 and then ride them out. I just put an new set on the front no completely worn for sure but I can save it for spare.
>
> My question is if there are better options for the price point. i can get Conti's for around $55. I don't like slow tires and so far rarely flat. However would like to know some other options for riding? Given I prefer speedier tires but don't want to be swapping them out ever 2k.
> Deacon Mark

Well, I like the GP5000's too but I did NOT get very good mileage on them and especially for the price.

So I have been riding Michelin Pro4 series. They are quite a bit cheaper, the mileage is good, the flat protection is at least as good as the 5000's and regardless of what the rolling resistance tests say, they roll better than the Vittoria Corsa. I started using these way back when I decided to put fat tires on my Time Edge which was unrideable with 23's on it. With 28's it was the best riding bike I ever rode but I was at that stage when I was trying out bike after bike and had to sell stuff off to make room for the new stuff.

Mark Cleary <deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:
> For the past few years been running Conti GP 4000's and then the 5000's.
> I like them they roll well and I get tremendous mileage on them. I can
> usually get 6000 miles. I swap the front to the rear after about 2200 and
> then ride them out. I just put an new set on the front no completely worn
> for sure but I can save it for spare.
>
> My question is if there are better options for the price point. i can get
> Conti's for around $55. I don't like slow tires and so far rarely flat.
> However would like to know some other options for riding? Given I prefer
> speedier tires but don't want to be swapping them out ever 2k.
> Deacon Mark
>
I never got more than maybe 2k out of road tires, broadly similar to what I
get from the gravel bike. They would square out and generally pick up war
wounds from flint and so on.

It’s possible to get ultralight and so on tires, grip/speed is one
compromise as is grip/wear.

For example tires such as Gatorskins which are tough long lasting are
fairly hilarious/scary in the wet as they will step out with ease!

If your tubes might try some of the thermoplastic inner tubes which do roll
lovely though still puncture!

Roger Merriman.

On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 3:27:56 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Mark Cleary <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > For the past few years been running Conti GP 4000's and then the 5000's..
> > I like them they roll well and I get tremendous mileage on them. I can
> > usually get 6000 miles. I swap the front to the rear after about 2200 and
> > then ride them out. I just put an new set on the front no completely worn
> > for sure but I can save it for spare.
> >
> > My question is if there are better options for the price point. i can get
> > Conti's for around $55. I don't like slow tires and so far rarely flat.
> > However would like to know some other options for riding? Given I prefer
> > speedier tires but don't want to be swapping them out ever 2k.
> > Deacon Mark
> >
> I never got more than maybe 2k out of road tires, broadly similar to what I
> get from the gravel bike. They would square out and generally pick up war
> wounds from flint and so on.
>
> It’s possible to get ultralight and so on tires, grip/speed is one
> compromise as is grip/wear.
>
> For example tires such as Gatorskins which are tough long lasting are
> fairly hilarious/scary in the wet as they will step out with ease!
>
> If your tubes might try some of the thermoplastic inner tubes which do roll
> lovely though still puncture!

Wow, are you telling me. I was on a long ride on a particularly cold morning when I descended onto a flat road and that section of road was in the shadows and apparently have ice from the morning mist still on it NEAR NOON when the temperature was probably 60 degrees. The bike slide right over to the edge of the road which was a little higher, and just before I crashed it took traction and straightened out. Last time I used Gatorskins. But friends use them exclusively and they have never had any traction problems that I've noticed and they are most certainly not more careful than I am.

On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 7:14:49 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 3:27:56 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >
> >
> > For example tires such as Gatorskins which are tough long lasting are
> > fairly hilarious/scary in the wet as they will step out with ease!
> >
> > If your tubes might try some of the thermoplastic inner tubes which do roll
> > lovely though still puncture!
> Wow, are you telling me. I was on a long ride on a particularly cold morning when I descended onto a flat road and that section of road was in the shadows and apparently have ice from the morning mist still on it NEAR NOON when the temperature was probably 60 degrees. The bike slide right over to the edge of the road which was a little higher, and just before I crashed it took traction and straightened out. Last time I used Gatorskins. But friends use them exclusively and they have never had any traction problems that I've noticed and they are most certainly not more careful than I am.-

We run Gatorskins on our tandem. I've never had a traction problem with them, but then, I don't try to push the limits
of traction.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 7:14:49 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 3:27:56 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> For example tires such as Gatorskins which are tough long lasting are
>>> fairly hilarious/scary in the wet as they will step out with ease!
>>>
>>> If your tubes might try some of the thermoplastic inner tubes which do roll
>>> lovely though still puncture!
>> Wow, are you telling me. I was on a long ride on a particularly cold
>> morning when I descended onto a flat road and that section of road was
>> in the shadows and apparently have ice from the morning mist still on it
>> NEAR NOON when the temperature was probably 60 degrees. The bike slide
>> right over to the edge of the road which was a little higher, and just
>> before I crashed it took traction and straightened out. Last time I used
>> Gatorskins. But friends use them exclusively and they have never had any
>> traction problems that I've noticed and they are most certainly not more
>> careful than I am.-
>
> We run Gatorskins on our tandem. I've never had a traction problem with
> them, but then, I don't try to push the limits
> of traction.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>

Wider tires? I was also comparing 25mm Gatorskins to stuff like 4seasons
which was a fair difference in grip level.

For reference, it was noticeable on very wet days rolling though the park
that you could if one wished could light up the rear with out much effort,
or via slow tight turns could get the bike to drift.

Even Marathons pluses had better grip from memory! And they in narrow 25mm
format are far from grippy!

Not unsurprisingly if the tire is wide the compound being hardwearing and
hard doesn’t seem to matter grip wise.

My old commute beastie with 2in so 54mm (ish) tires both Marthon plus
touring (dreadful ride!) and the Big Apples grip levels are good,
unbothered by even wet metalwork/white lines and so on.

Are they as grippy as the Hans Dampf, ie posh tires on my MTB? on tarmac?
nothing in it. In the wet can I tell yes, but really do have to push it,
and way beyond what is reasonable!

Roger Merriman.

On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 3:01:20 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 7:14:49 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 3:27:56 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> For example tires such as Gatorskins which are tough long lasting are
> >>> fairly hilarious/scary in the wet as they will step out with ease!
> >>>
> >>> If your tubes might try some of the thermoplastic inner tubes which do roll
> >>> lovely though still puncture!
> >> Wow, are you telling me. I was on a long ride on a particularly cold
> >> morning when I descended onto a flat road and that section of road was
> >> in the shadows and apparently have ice from the morning mist still on it
> >> NEAR NOON when the temperature was probably 60 degrees. The bike slide
> >> right over to the edge of the road which was a little higher, and just
> >> before I crashed it took traction and straightened out. Last time I used
> >> Gatorskins. But friends use them exclusively and they have never had any
> >> traction problems that I've noticed and they are most certainly not more
> >> careful than I am.-
> >
> > We run Gatorskins on our tandem. I've never had a traction problem with
> > them, but then, I don't try to push the limits
> > of traction.
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> >
> Wider tires? I was also comparing 25mm Gatorskins to stuff like 4seasons
> which was a fair difference in grip level.
>
> For reference, it was noticeable on very wet days rolling though the park
> that you could if one wished could light up the rear with out much effort,
> or via slow tight turns could get the bike to drift.
>
> Even Marathons pluses had better grip from memory! And they in narrow 25mm
> format are far from grippy!
>
> Not unsurprisingly if the tire is wide the compound being hardwearing and
> hard doesn’t seem to matter grip wise.
>
> My old commute beastie with 2in so 54mm (ish) tires both Marthon plus
> touring (dreadful ride!) and the Big Apples grip levels are good,
> unbothered by even wet metalwork/white lines and so on.
>
> Are they as grippy as the Hans Dampf, ie posh tires on my MTB? on tarmac?
> nothing in it. In the wet can I tell yes, but really do have to push it,
> and way beyond what is reasonable!
Your understanding of grip and that of Frank is day and night. He doesn't ride fast and gatorskins are grippy to him. You and I are going occasionally over 40 mph and hit a right angle turn with no banking. While the 4 seasons are very grippy they are also very slow tires. I will stick to my Michelin Pro4's until they are replaced with the 5's.

Vittoria Rubinos. I realize they are a pretty cheap tire and nothing special, but I have obtained quite good service from them and would recommend them.

On 6/11/2022 6:01 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 7:14:49 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 3:27:56 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For example tires such as Gatorskins which are tough long lasting are
>>>> fairly hilarious/scary in the wet as they will step out with ease!
>>>>
>>>> If your tubes might try some of the thermoplastic inner tubes which do roll
>>>> lovely though still puncture!
>>> Wow, are you telling me. I was on a long ride on a particularly cold
>>> morning when I descended onto a flat road and that section of road was
>>> in the shadows and apparently have ice from the morning mist still on it
>>> NEAR NOON when the temperature was probably 60 degrees. The bike slide
>>> right over to the edge of the road which was a little higher, and just
>>> before I crashed it took traction and straightened out. Last time I used
>>> Gatorskins. But friends use them exclusively and they have never had any
>>> traction problems that I've noticed and they are most certainly not more
>>> careful than I am.-
>>
>> We run Gatorskins on our tandem. I've never had a traction problem with
>> them, but then, I don't try to push the limits
>> of traction.
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>
> Wider tires? I was also comparing 25mm Gatorskins to stuff like 4seasons
> which was a fair difference in grip level.

We run 32s on the tandem. 25s would be very inappropriate.

It occurs to me, I did one ride with a male friend as stoker during
which we climbed a famously steep local hill on the tandem. There was
one wet spot with a trickle of water running across the road, and we
spun the rear tire several times as we passed over that wet spot. So
that's one traction failure.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 10:18:34 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> For the past few years been running Conti GP 4000's and then the 5000's. I like them they roll well and I get tremendous mileage on them. I can usually get 6000 miles. I swap the front to the rear after about 2200 and then ride them out. I just put an new set on the front no completely worn for sure but I can save it for spare.
>
> My question is if there are better options for the price point. i can get Conti's for around $55. I don't like slow tires and so far rarely flat. However would like to know some other options for riding? Given I prefer speedier tires but don't want to be swapping them out ever 2k.
> Deacon Mark

You can't try every tire and the people who will give you advice here either. So I rely on the test TOUR magazine does every year and year after year Continental 4000, 4000S and now 5000S end up as the best all round tire. That is also my experience from my limited experience and if I look at your numbers you either.

Lou

On 6/11/2022 3:01 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:

<snip>

> Wider tires? I was also comparing 25mm Gatorskins to stuff like 4seasons
> which was a fair difference in grip level.

You want to avoid Gatorskins if you ride on wet roads. See
<https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13111058/newbie-question-grip-of-gatorskins-on-wet-roads>

I've moved to all Schwalbe tires but I look for durability and puncture
protection more than low rolling resistance.

For the original poster, the Schwalbe One
<https://schwalbetires.com/Schwalbe-One-11653957> would be fine though
no cheaper than what he's using with an MSRP of $56. It doesn't have the
wet traction issues of the Continental Gatorskins.

See <https://road.cc/content/review/171971-schwalbe-one-clincher-tyre>.

On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:21:46 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 10:18:34 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > For the past few years been running Conti GP 4000's and then the 5000's.. I like them they roll well and I get tremendous mileage on them. I can usually get 6000 miles. I swap the front to the rear after about 2200 and then ride them out. I just put an new set on the front no completely worn for sure but I can save it for spare.
> >
> > My question is if there are better options for the price point. i can get Conti's for around $55. I don't like slow tires and so far rarely flat. However would like to know some other options for riding? Given I prefer speedier tires but don't want to be swapping them out ever 2k.
> > Deacon Mark
> You can't try every tire and the people who will give you advice here either. So I rely on the test TOUR magazine does every year and year after year Continental 4000, 4000S and now 5000S end up as the best all round tire. That is also my experience from my limited experience and if I look at your numbers you either.

Lou, I have tried every Continental and every Michelin and every Vittoria and most of the company that originally made Vittoria in Italy and ALL of the Goodyears. The tires I tried from people like Schwalbe were extremely unimpressive though I hear that they have improved if road tests from magazines can be trusted. Having 3 flats on a ride isn't anything I can pretend is normal.

On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 6:57:23 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:21:46 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 10:18:34 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > For the past few years been running Conti GP 4000's and then the 5000's. I like them they roll well and I get tremendous mileage on them. I can usually get 6000 miles. I swap the front to the rear after about 2200 and then ride them out. I just put an new set on the front no completely worn for sure but I can save it for spare.
> > >
> > > My question is if there are better options for the price point. i can get Conti's for around $55. I don't like slow tires and so far rarely flat.. However would like to know some other options for riding? Given I prefer speedier tires but don't want to be swapping them out ever 2k.
> > > Deacon Mark
> > You can't try every tire and the people who will give you advice here either. So I rely on the test TOUR magazine does every year and year after year Continental 4000, 4000S and now 5000S end up as the best all round tire.. That is also my experience from my limited experience and if I look at your numbers you either.
> Lou, I have tried every Continental and every Michelin and every Vittoria and most of the company that originally made Vittoria in Italy and ALL of the Goodyears. The tires I tried from people like Schwalbe were extremely unimpressive though I hear that they have improved if road tests from magazines can be trusted. Having 3 flats on a ride isn't anything I can pretend is normal.

I gave up on Schwalbe also after using their flimsy Ultremo's. They went too far with their weight reduction and they had a hard time to recover from that. They make good gravel tires though. The Michelin Pro's were the first decent road tires (also in 25 mm at that time an exception), but for my taste too prone for cuts. I stopped using them after the Pro2. The 4 seasons and Gaterskins are not in the same league regarding RR. They are good winter tires and for people who want more puncture resistance (4 seasons) and/or life time. As always 'life is too short to ride shitty tires'.

Lou

On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 10:39:00 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 6:57:23 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:21:46 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 10:18:34 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > For the past few years been running Conti GP 4000's and then the 5000's. I like them they roll well and I get tremendous mileage on them. I can usually get 6000 miles. I swap the front to the rear after about 2200 and then ride them out. I just put an new set on the front no completely worn for sure but I can save it for spare.
> > > >
> > > > My question is if there are better options for the price point. i can get Conti's for around $55. I don't like slow tires and so far rarely flat. However would like to know some other options for riding? Given I prefer speedier tires but don't want to be swapping them out ever 2k.
> > > > Deacon Mark
> > > You can't try every tire and the people who will give you advice here either. So I rely on the test TOUR magazine does every year and year after year Continental 4000, 4000S and now 5000S end up as the best all round tire. That is also my experience from my limited experience and if I look at your numbers you either.
> > Lou, I have tried every Continental and every Michelin and every Vittoria and most of the company that originally made Vittoria in Italy and ALL of the Goodyears. The tires I tried from people like Schwalbe were extremely unimpressive though I hear that they have improved if road tests from magazines can be trusted. Having 3 flats on a ride isn't anything I can pretend is normal.
> I gave up on Schwalbe also after using their flimsy Ultremo's. They went too far with their weight reduction and they had a hard time to recover from that. They make good gravel tires though. The Michelin Pro's were the first decent road tires (also in 25 mm at that time an exception), but for my taste too prone for cuts. I stopped using them after the Pro2. The 4 seasons and Gaterskins are not in the same league regarding RR. They are good winter tires and for people who want more puncture resistance (4 seasons) and/or life time. As always 'life is too short to ride shitty tires'.
>
> Lou

My ride up at the Wine Country Century course couple of weeks ago was with a couple who ride gatorskins constantly. One of the things I kept noticing was that although they dropped me like a rock on the climbs, that they were not cornering well on the descents. And I'm not descending all that well anymore, with age comes the curiosity of what may be around that next corner that I used to take full out. Most especially now that the roads are getting to beaten up. Not only is it sharp blind turns but now in the middle of them a new pothole.

On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 1:39:00 p.m. UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 6:57:23 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:21:46 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 10:18:34 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > For the past few years been running Conti GP 4000's and then the 5000's. I like them they roll well and I get tremendous mileage on them. I can usually get 6000 miles. I swap the front to the rear after about 2200 and then ride them out. I just put an new set on the front no completely worn for sure but I can save it for spare.
> > > >
> > > > My question is if there are better options for the price point. i can get Conti's for around $55. I don't like slow tires and so far rarely flat. However would like to know some other options for riding? Given I prefer speedier tires but don't want to be swapping them out ever 2k.
> > > > Deacon Mark
> > > You can't try every tire and the people who will give you advice here either. So I rely on the test TOUR magazine does every year and year after year Continental 4000, 4000S and now 5000S end up as the best all round tire. That is also my experience from my limited experience and if I look at your numbers you either.
> > Lou, I have tried every Continental and every Michelin and every Vittoria and most of the company that originally made Vittoria in Italy and ALL of the Goodyears. The tires I tried from people like Schwalbe were extremely unimpressive though I hear that they have improved if road tests from magazines can be trusted. Having 3 flats on a ride isn't anything I can pretend is normal.
> I gave up on Schwalbe also after using their flimsy Ultremo's. They went too far with their weight reduction and they had a hard time to recover from that. They make good gravel tires though. The Michelin Pro's were the first decent road tires (also in 25 mm at that time an exception), but for my taste too prone for cuts. I stopped using them after the Pro2. The 4 seasons and Gaterskins are not in the same league regarding RR. They are good winter tires and for people who want more puncture resistance (4 seasons) and/or life time. As always 'life is too short to ride shitty tires'.
>
> Lou

I liked the Schwalbe CX Pro in 32mm until I flatted the front tire and the tire came off the rim. Even at low pressure as in a slow leak steering control was virtually non-existent.

I think that tires are another thing where what works for one person might not work for another person.

Cheers

On 6/11/2022 9:21 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 10:18:34 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>> For the past few years been running Conti GP 4000's and then the 5000's. I like them they roll well and I get tremendous mileage on them. I can usually get 6000 miles. I swap the front to the rear after about 2200 and then ride them out. I just put an new set on the front no completely worn for sure but I can save it for spare.
>>
>> My question is if there are better options for the price point. i can get Conti's for around $55. I don't like slow tires and so far rarely flat. However would like to know some other options for riding? Given I prefer speedier tires but don't want to be swapping them out ever 2k.
>> Deacon Mark
>
>
> You can't try every tire and the people who will give you advice here either. So I rely on the test TOUR magazine does every year and year after year Continental 4000, 4000S and now 5000S end up as the best all round tire. That is also my experience from my limited experience and if I look at your numbers you either.

Yes, the Continental GP4000 (28mm) won the TOUR magazine test for the
lowest rolling resistance
<https://dnkjgt41okrad.cloudfront.net/images/slider_landscape_1200/59939-tyre-rolling-resistance-test-tour-magazine.jpg>.

However the Schwable One had the same overall score of 1.4
<https://www.tour-magazin.de/kaufberatung/komponenten/reifen/test-rennradreifen-2018-die-besten-reifen-fuers-rennrad-clincher-und-tubeless/>.

TOUR did say that the Continental GP4000 was prone to side cuts.

So the original poster would be fine sticking with the GP5000 or trying
the Schwalbe One. They're about the same retail price. Schwalbe has had
a lot of supply chain issues during the past two years, not sure about
Continental.

On 2022-06-11, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 6/11/2022 3:01 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Wider tires? I was also comparing 25mm Gatorskins to stuff like 4seasons
>> which was a fair difference in grip level.
>
> You want to avoid Gatorskins if you ride on wet roads. See
><https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13111058/newbie-question-grip-of-gatorskins-on-wet-roads>
>
> I've moved to all Schwalbe tires but I look for durability and puncture
> protection more than low rolling resistance.
>
> For the original poster, the Schwalbe One
><https://schwalbetires.com/Schwalbe-One-11653957> would be fine though
> no cheaper than what he's using with an MSRP of $56. It doesn't have the
> wet traction issues of the Continental Gatorskins.
>
> See <https://road.cc/content/review/171971-schwalbe-one-clincher-tyre>.
>

I have a Zaffiro on the front and a Continental on the back right now.
It's hard to find decent 27" tires at times.

The Continental is a *bear* to mount dismount and requires tire irons. I
can do the Zaffiro by hand.

Mavic Mod 4 rims.

pH in Aptos

On 6/11/2022 9:53 PM, pH wrote:
>
> I have a Zaffiro on the front and a Continental on the back right now.
> It's hard to find decent 27" tires at times.
>
> The Continental is a *bear* to mount dismount and requires tire irons. I
> can do the Zaffiro by hand.
>
> Mavic Mod 4 rims.

I'm sure we've all come across those differences. It makes me wonder
about the tolerances on rim dimensions such as bead seat diameters, and
the tolerances on tire bead diameters.

In an ideal world, every (say) 27 inch tire would mount the same on
every 27 inch rim. Ditto for 700C. After all, we almost never have this
problem screwing 1/4-20 nuts onto 1/4-20 screws.

(Drivel: Last night I came across a left hand threaded 1/4-20 nut. A
rare item! Being who I am, I saved it.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/12/2022 9:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 6/11/2022 9:53 PM, pH wrote:
>>
>> I have a Zaffiro on the front and a Continental on the
>> back right now.
>> It's hard to find decent 27" tires at times.
>>
>> The Continental is a *bear* to mount dismount and requires
>> tire irons. I
>> can do the Zaffiro by hand.
>>
>> Mavic Mod 4 rims.
>
> I'm sure we've all come across those differences. It makes
> me wonder about the tolerances on rim dimensions such as
> bead seat diameters, and the tolerances on tire bead diameters.
>
> In an ideal world, every (say) 27 inch tire would mount the
> same on every 27 inch rim. Ditto for 700C. After all, we
> almost never have this problem screwing 1/4-20 nuts onto
> 1/4-20 screws.
>
> (Drivel: Last night I came across a left hand threaded
> 1/4-20 nut. A rare item! Being who I am, I saved it.)
>

It's almost never a difference in bead seat diameter of tire
or rim[1]. It's more commonly design errors of the channel
between the seats; depth or width or both[2]. Followed
closely by incorrect rim liner.

[1] every manufactured thing has some measurable incidence
of defect but for tires and rims it's vanishingly small.

[2] tires with thicker bead edges will show up as mounting
difficulty on rims with marginal clearances.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 8:12:14 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/12/2022 9:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 6/11/2022 9:53 PM, pH wrote:
> >>
> >> I have a Zaffiro on the front and a Continental on the
> >> back right now.
> >> It's hard to find decent 27" tires at times.
> >>
> >> The Continental is a *bear* to mount dismount and requires
> >> tire irons. I
> >> can do the Zaffiro by hand.
> >>
> >> Mavic Mod 4 rims.
> >
> > I'm sure we've all come across those differences. It makes
> > me wonder about the tolerances on rim dimensions such as
> > bead seat diameters, and the tolerances on tire bead diameters.
> >
> > In an ideal world, every (say) 27 inch tire would mount the
> > same on every 27 inch rim. Ditto for 700C. After all, we
> > almost never have this problem screwing 1/4-20 nuts onto
> > 1/4-20 screws.
> >
> > (Drivel: Last night I came across a left hand threaded
> > 1/4-20 nut. A rare item! Being who I am, I saved it.)
> >
> It's almost never a difference in bead seat diameter of tire
> or rim[1]. It's more commonly design errors of the channel
> between the seats; depth or width or both[2]. Followed
> closely by incorrect rim liner.
>
> [1] every manufactured thing has some measurable incidence
> of defect but for tires and rims it's vanishingly small.
>
> [2] tires with thicker bead edges will show up as mounting
> difficulty on rims with marginal clearances.

Why do you suppose we keep getting the absolutely stupid garbage out of Frank who claims himself a mechanical engineer and makes a comment like that? Because of the tolerances on an ANSI standard 1/4-20 screw, were the SAME tolerances held on a 700c rim the rim size could vary by 1/2". Well, at least Frank being who Frank is he saved a left handed thread nut. I wonder if Frank himself is left handed? We know his politics is far far left.

These are things that should never need to be pointed out. Everyone that changes tires knows that rims and tire beads vary enough that some are extremely difficult to get on or off while you can slip some off and on with little hand pressure. And this is with tolerances MUCH closer than that of a 1/4-20 screw.

On 6/11/2022 6:53 PM, pH wrote:

<snip>

> I have a Zaffiro on the front and a Continental on the back right now.
> It's hard to find decent 27" tires at times.

True. For touring tires there are still a sufficient number of 27" tires
but for racing tires the choices are few.

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 1:41:08 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> On 6/11/2022 6:53 PM, pH wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > I have a Zaffiro on the front and a Continental on the back right now.
> > It's hard to find decent 27" tires at times.
> True. For touring tires there are still a sufficient number of 27" tires
> but for racing tires the choices are few.

I mount these to H and Son rims with really not a lot of problem. So far with tires of any type I have not had issues and can mount them by hand if I have to. I do use a tire lever the first time but once they have been inflated usually they can go on with hand only. I do here of folks with problems buy I am not running tubeless and have no interest in tubeless. I hope they keep making standard clinchers.
Deacon Mark.

On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:53:26 p.m. UTC-4, pH wrote:
> On 2022-06-11, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > On 6/11/2022 3:01 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >> Wider tires? I was also comparing 25mm Gatorskins to stuff like 4seasons
> >> which was a fair difference in grip level.
> >
> > You want to avoid Gatorskins if you ride on wet roads. See
> ><https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13111058/newbie-question-grip-of-gatorskins-on-wet-roads>
> >
> > I've moved to all Schwalbe tires but I look for durability and puncture
> > protection more than low rolling resistance.
> >
> > For the original poster, the Schwalbe One
> ><https://schwalbetires.com/Schwalbe-One-11653957> would be fine though
> > no cheaper than what he's using with an MSRP of $56. It doesn't have the
> > wet traction issues of the Continental Gatorskins.
> >
> > See <https://road.cc/content/review/171971-schwalbe-one-clincher-tyre>.
> >
> I have a Zaffiro on the front and a Continental on the back right now.
> It's hard to find decent 27" tires at times.
>
> The Continental is a *bear* to mount dismount and requires tire irons. I
> can do the Zaffiro by hand.
>
> Mavic Mod 4 rims.
>
> pH in Aptos

I love the Zaffiro tires I have on my road bikes. Those tires are relatively inexpensive buy quite durable and great traction for me.

Cheers

On 6/12/2022 11:12 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/12/2022 9:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 6/11/2022 9:53 PM, pH wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a Zaffiro on the front and a Continental on the
>>> back right now.
>>> It's hard to find decent 27" tires at times.
>>>
>>> The Continental is a *bear* to mount dismount and requires
>>> tire irons.  I
>>> can do the Zaffiro by hand.
>>>
>>> Mavic Mod 4 rims.
>>
>> I'm sure we've all come across those differences. It makes
>> me wonder about the tolerances on rim dimensions such as
>> bead seat diameters, and the tolerances on tire bead diameters.
>>
>> In an ideal world, every (say) 27 inch tire would mount the
>> same on every 27 inch rim. Ditto for 700C. After all, we
>> almost never have this problem screwing 1/4-20 nuts onto
>> 1/4-20 screws.
>>
>> (Drivel: Last night I came across a left hand threaded
>> 1/4-20 nut. A rare item! Being who I am, I saved it.)
>>
>
> It's almost never a difference in bead seat diameter of tire or rim[1].
> It's more commonly design errors of the channel between the seats; depth
> or width or both[2]. Followed closely by incorrect rim liner.

I understand, and of course I know every item has tolerances. I'm
slightly curious about the industry standard tolerance for the
dimensions I mentioned.

It seems strange to me that one can buy tires that won't fit a nominally
compatible rim. Given that the depth of the well is important, I wonder
if there's an industry standard for that. If not, I wonder how a design
makes it out the door without being tested for that.

It's been decades, but I recall one bike convention long ago at which a
guy was having tremendous difficulty fitting a supposedly compatible
tire onto a rim. I was one of three people attempting to help him, and
we all gave up. I assume something was badly out of tolerance.

BTW, regarding rim liner or rim tape: On one tour our daughter's brand
new bike was flatting repeatedly because of bad rim tape. In the small
town we passed through, all I could find was medical adhesive tape. It
worked so well that as often as not that's become my go-to choice.

--
- Frank Krygowski