Today out for 57 mile ride and at mile 56 on the home stretch I hear a metal tinging after going through a bit of the gutter in the road. Nothing standing out that warranted problems. Well I stop the bike and picked up a metal screw in the rear tire. I knew the minute I pulled it the tire would deflate. So I just said the hell with it get off and put a new tube in.

I thought maybe the tire was going to be bad but I knew I could get home. I had CO2 but I am old fashion and really like mini pumps. I pulled my cheapie pump out and got home. Well according to my tire gage at home I got the 25 mm Conti GP 5000 to abut 68 PSI. Certainly enough to ride but the better pump on my Habanero would have gotten me to 85 or more.

I took the bike down to the basement shop and repaired the tube small very round puncture. Great thing about these flats is that at least no mystery trying figure out the cause.

I looked at tire and really no bulging or sidewall but still the puncture went through enough that you could tell on the inside of tire. These tired have plenty of life left so just to make sure I decided to use a thick patch on the inside. These are much thicker with the orange ring around and you peel off the silver backing. I used tire cement on the inside but realize I all need to do is keep the patch in place the tube will hold it. Then for addition measure I put a piece of Stan's no tube rim tape over the whole patch.

Then I load back the original tube to the wheel just to make sure it was patched and holding air. Well all is good got the tire up to 110 psi I won't ride the Wilier for few days so extra PSI.

My instincts tell me it is rear tire and completely fine to ride on. Would be fine to ride on as a front too but no need to push the envelope. Riding on wore thinner tires probably more risky. Would anyone do anything different?

In any case I have not ruined a tire riding in years but this one caused me to do a bit of math. With inflation and the cost of tires going up have to try and do what you can to keep them running longer. The last set of Conti's I bought were $100. The set I bought 2 weeks ago $130.

Deacon Mark

On 7/13/2022 2:50 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>
> My instincts tell me it is rear tire and completely fine to ride on. Would be fine to ride on as a front too but no need to push the envelope. Riding on wore thinner tires probably more risky. Would anyone do anything different?

I'd probably have done even less. A patch on an inner tube tends to
reinforce the tire at the spot of a puncture anyway. I don't think a
round hole from a nail or screw is likely to affect the tire strength.

I've patched or otherwise booted some tires on the inside if the cut was
more than maybe 1/8" or 3mm long. Once, on a really odd sized tire with
tons of life left, I did that but didn't like the look of the
still-visible cut, so I filled it in with black silicon seal. That was
just cosmetic.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 11:50:24 AM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> Today out for 57 mile ride and at mile 56 on the home stretch I hear a metal tinging after going through a bit of the gutter in the road. Nothing standing out that warranted problems. Well I stop the bike and picked up a metal screw in the rear tire. I knew the minute I pulled it the tire would deflate. So I just said the hell with it get off and put a new tube in.
>
> I thought maybe the tire was going to be bad but I knew I could get home. I had CO2 but I am old fashion and really like mini pumps. I pulled my cheapie pump out and got home. Well according to my tire gage at home I got the 25 mm Conti GP 5000 to abut 68 PSI. Certainly enough to ride but the better pump on my Habanero would have gotten me to 85 or more.
>
> I took the bike down to the basement shop and repaired the tube small very round puncture. Great thing about these flats is that at least no mystery trying figure out the cause.
>
> I looked at tire and really no bulging or sidewall but still the puncture went through enough that you could tell on the inside of tire. These tired have plenty of life left so just to make sure I decided to use a thick patch on the inside. These are much thicker with the orange ring around and you peel off the silver backing. I used tire cement on the inside but realize I all need to do is keep the patch in place the tube will hold it. Then for addition measure I put a piece of Stan's no tube rim tape over the whole patch.
>
> Then I load back the original tube to the wheel just to make sure it was patched and holding air. Well all is good got the tire up to 110 psi I won't ride the Wilier for few days so extra PSI.
>
> My instincts tell me it is rear tire and completely fine to ride on. Would be fine to ride on as a front too but no need to push the envelope. Riding on wore thinner tires probably more risky. Would anyone do anything different?
>
> In any case I have not ruined a tire riding in years but this one caused me to do a bit of math. With inflation and the cost of tires going up have to try and do what you can to keep them running longer. The last set of Conti's I bought were $100. The set I bought 2 weeks ago $130.
>
> Deacon Mark
Gatorskins have an almost unpuncturable belt on their tread face. 4 Seasons have the same aramid belt from bead to bead and good traction in all conditions but make DP5000's look cheap.

Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 7/13/2022 2:50 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>> [GP 5000 expenses]

<https://www.bike-discount.de/en/search?sSearch=conti+5000>
(Just a link, absolutely not a recommendation.)
If you think that the suggested retail price, in EUR terms, will be
lower next year, you must be dreaming.

>> My instincts tell me it is rear tire and completely fine to ride
>> on. Would be fine to ride on as a front too but no need to push the
>> envelope. Riding on wore thinner tires probably more risky. Would
>> anyone do anything different?

> I'd probably have done even less. A patch on an inner tube tends to
> reinforce the tire at the spot of a puncture anyway. I don't think a
> round hole from a nail or screw is likely to affect the tire
> strength.
+1

--
"Never trust Contis to perform any longer than four falls!"
<http://milfordmilitaria.com/20245790.jpg>

On 7/13/2022 11:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:

<snip>

> I looked at tire and really no bulging or sidewall but still the puncture went through enough that you could tell on the inside of tire. These tired have plenty of life left so just to make sure I decided to use a thick patch on the inside. These are much thicker with the orange ring around and you peel off the silver backing. I used tire cement on the inside but realize I all need to do is keep the patch in place the tube will hold it. Then for addition measure I put a piece of Stan's no tube rim tape over the whole patch.

I would have used a large patch on the tube and then when I reinstalled
the tire I would align the hole in the tire with the patch on the tube.

On 7/13/2022 7:17 PM, sms wrote:
> On 7/13/2022 11:50 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I looked at tire and really no bulging or sidewall but still the
>> puncture went through enough that you could tell on the inside of
>> tire. These tired have plenty of life left so just to make sure I
>> decided to use a thick patch on the inside. These are much thicker
>> with the orange ring around and you peel off the silver backing. I
>> used tire cement on the inside but realize I all need to do is keep
>> the patch in place the tube will hold it. Then for addition measure I
>> put a piece of Stan's no tube rim tape over the whole patch.
>
> I would have used a large patch on the tube and then when I reinstalled
> the tire I would align the hole in the tire with the patch on the tube.

For me, the latter part of that is standard procedure. All it really
requires is not flipping the tube. I mark the metal threads of the stem,
nicking them with a file, on the drive side and always reinstall them
that way.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Am Wed, 13 Jul 2022 11:50:22 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Mark Cleary
<deaconmjc08@gmail.com>:

>I thought maybe the tire was going to be bad but I knew I
>could get home. I had CO2 but I am old fashion and really
>like mini pumps. I pulled my cheapie pump out and got home.
>Well according to my tire gage at home I got the 25 mm Conti
>GP 5000 to abut 68 PSI. Certainly enough to ride but the
>better pump on my Habanero would have gotten me to 85 or
>more.

I own a Topeak Pocket Rocket which served me well over a decade, after I
retired a Pompita which was even more worn than that Pocket Rocket is
now.

68-85 psi amounts to about 4.7-5.8 bar.

Tires we use on our bikes vary, depending on what was available when a
replacement was necessary. Currently, it is a 25mm GP 5000 tire on the
front wheel of my bike, too. I can do about 5.5 mbar using the Pocket
Rocket repeatedly, when trying hard. And it takes time, about 150-200
strokes.

Earlier this year I bought a Crankbrothers Sterling S pump as a vacation
backup of sorts, because the Pocket Rocket wasn't available at that time
(still isn't). That pump has a two-stage operation: "Level 1 for large
volumes of air in a short time, level 2 for high pressure with up to 7
bar". That's much more realistic than the inflated (excuse the pun) 11
bar quoted for the Pocket Rocket. I can do about 5.5 bar using that
pump too, but stronger people than me might perform somewhat better.

5.5 bar is good enough for us, if somewhat on the 'comfortable' side.

My bike in 2020, Pocket Rocket mounted at the downtube. Picture taken
two years ago, when visiting the Radio Telescope Effelsberg, again.

<https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20200713/DSC03466.jpg>
<https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pluspora/plainpostings/20200714t1557-radioteleskop_effelsberg.html>

<https://www.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de/en/effelsberg>
--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

Am Wed, 13 Jul 2022 23:20:42 +0200 schrieb Sepp Ruf
<inqbel@Safe-mail.net>:

>"Never trust Contis to perform any longer than four falls!"

Not my experience for a long time. They did have problems with somewhat
fragile sidewalls years ago.
--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 1:47:02 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> Am Wed, 13 Jul 2022 23:20:42 +0200 schrieb Sepp Ruf
> <inq...@Safe-mail.net>:
> >"Never trust Contis to perform any longer than four falls!"
> Not my experience for a long time. They did have problems with somewhat
> fragile sidewalls years ago.
> --
> Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

They had quite rapid wear life with my GP5000's but otherwise were a nice tire. Although my experience is that the Michelin Pro4 ix just about the perfect tire combining low wear and low rolling resistance and a comfortable ride and CHEAPER than the Continentals or Vittoria's. I have also been having good luck with the Goodyear Eagles.

On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:45:26 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 1:47:02 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> > Am Wed, 13 Jul 2022 23:20:42 +0200 schrieb Sepp Ruf
> > <inq...@Safe-mail.net>:
> > >"Never trust Contis to perform any longer than four falls!"
> > Not my experience for a long time. They did have problems with somewhat
> > fragile sidewalls years ago.
> > --
> > Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
> They had quite rapid wear life with my GP5000's but otherwise were a nice tire. Although my experience is that the Michelin Pro4 ix just about the perfect tire combining low wear and low rolling resistance and a comfortable ride and CHEAPER than the Continentals or Vittoria's. I have also been having good luck with the Goodyear Eagles.
My Conti GP 5000 last me 5000 to 6000 miles not Kilometers.
Deacon Mark

On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:28:54 PM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:45:26 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 1:47:02 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> > > Am Wed, 13 Jul 2022 23:20:42 +0200 schrieb Sepp Ruf
> > > <inq...@Safe-mail.net>:
> > > >"Never trust Contis to perform any longer than four falls!"
> > > Not my experience for a long time. They did have problems with somewhat
> > > fragile sidewalls years ago.
> > > --
> > > Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
> > They had quite rapid wear life with my GP5000's but otherwise were a nice tire. Although my experience is that the Michelin Pro4 ix just about the perfect tire combining low wear and low rolling resistance and a comfortable ride and CHEAPER than the Continentals or Vittoria's. I have also been having good luck with the Goodyear Eagles.
> My Conti GP 5000 last me 5000 to 6000 miles not Kilometers.

I wonder what size you are. I'm 6'4" and 185 lbs. I could get maybe 1,500 miles on a GP5000 and that is wearing a flat spot on the rear and switching it to the front and wearing a flat spot on the rear again.

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:08:22 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:28:54 PM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:45:26 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 1:47:02 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> > > > Am Wed, 13 Jul 2022 23:20:42 +0200 schrieb Sepp Ruf
> > > > <inq...@Safe-mail.net>:
> > > > >"Never trust Contis to perform any longer than four falls!"
> > > > Not my experience for a long time. They did have problems with somewhat
> > > > fragile sidewalls years ago.
> > > > --
> > > > Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
> > > They had quite rapid wear life with my GP5000's but otherwise were a nice tire. Although my experience is that the Michelin Pro4 ix just about the perfect tire combining low wear and low rolling resistance and a comfortable ride and CHEAPER than the Continentals or Vittoria's. I have also been having good luck with the Goodyear Eagles.
> > My Conti GP 5000 last me 5000 to 6000 miles not Kilometers.
> I wonder what size you are. I'm 6'4" and 185 lbs. I could get maybe 1,500 miles on a GP5000 and that is wearing a flat spot on the rear and switching it to the front and wearing a flat spot on the rear again.
Definitely not my experience with Conti's and no flat spots they wear very even. I am a bit under 6'2 and 169 lbs.
Deacon Mark

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 7:32:57 AM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:08:22 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:28:54 PM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:45:26 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 1:47:02 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> > > > > Am Wed, 13 Jul 2022 23:20:42 +0200 schrieb Sepp Ruf
> > > > > <inq...@Safe-mail.net>:
> > > > > >"Never trust Contis to perform any longer than four falls!"
> > > > > Not my experience for a long time. They did have problems with somewhat
> > > > > fragile sidewalls years ago.
> > > > > --
> > > > > Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
> > > > They had quite rapid wear life with my GP5000's but otherwise were a nice tire. Although my experience is that the Michelin Pro4 ix just about the perfect tire combining low wear and low rolling resistance and a comfortable ride and CHEAPER than the Continentals or Vittoria's. I have also been having good luck with the Goodyear Eagles.
> > > My Conti GP 5000 last me 5000 to 6000 miles not Kilometers.
> > I wonder what size you are. I'm 6'4" and 185 lbs. I could get maybe 1,500 miles on a GP5000 and that is wearing a flat spot on the rear and switching it to the front and wearing a flat spot on the rear again.
> Definitely not my experience with Conti's and no flat spots they wear very even. I am a bit under 6'2 and 169 lbs.
> Deacon Mark

The longest wearing tires I've used were Vittoria Corsa G+ for which I probably got 2000 + miles. I get about the same mileage with Michelin Pro4's and I very much prefer them. Because of the tread on the Vittoria's they always make me a bit nervous at speed. Not that I've ever had a problem with them.

Mark Cleary <deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:08:22 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:28:54 PM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:45:26 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 1:47:02 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>>>>> Am Wed, 13 Jul 2022 23:20:42 +0200 schrieb Sepp Ruf
>>>>> <inq...@Safe-mail.net>:
>>>>>> "Never trust Contis to perform any longer than four falls!"
>>>>> Not my experience for a long time. They did have problems with somewhat
>>>>> fragile sidewalls years ago.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
>>>> They had quite rapid wear life with my GP5000's but otherwise were a
>>>> nice tire. Although my experience is that the Michelin Pro4 ix just
>>>> about the perfect tire combining low wear and low rolling resistance
>>>> and a comfortable ride and CHEAPER than the Continentals or
>>>> Vittoria's. I have also been having good luck with the Goodyear Eagles.
>>> My Conti GP 5000 last me 5000 to 6000 miles not Kilometers.
>> I wonder what size you are. I'm 6'4" and 185 lbs. I could get maybe
>> 1,500 miles on a GP5000 and that is wearing a flat spot on the rear and
>> switching it to the front and wearing a flat spot on the rear again.
> Definitely not my experience with Conti's and no flat spots they wear
> very even. I am a bit under 6'2 and 169 lbs.
> Deacon Mark
>
My experience is closer to Tom’s in that most road tires lasted 2k ish
(miles) rear the front generally getting torn up by flints and what not.

With the Gravel tires bit less 1K to 1500 miles.

I’m well over 200lb I think!

Roger Merriman

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:57:30 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Mark Cleary <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:08:22 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:28:54 PM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:45:26 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 1:47:02 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> >>>>> Am Wed, 13 Jul 2022 23:20:42 +0200 schrieb Sepp Ruf
> >>>>> <inq...@Safe-mail.net>:
> >>>>>> "Never trust Contis to perform any longer than four falls!"
> >>>>> Not my experience for a long time. They did have problems with somewhat
> >>>>> fragile sidewalls years ago.
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
> >>>> They had quite rapid wear life with my GP5000's but otherwise were a
> >>>> nice tire. Although my experience is that the Michelin Pro4 ix just
> >>>> about the perfect tire combining low wear and low rolling resistance
> >>>> and a comfortable ride and CHEAPER than the Continentals or
> >>>> Vittoria's. I have also been having good luck with the Goodyear Eagles.
> >>> My Conti GP 5000 last me 5000 to 6000 miles not Kilometers.
> >> I wonder what size you are. I'm 6'4" and 185 lbs. I could get maybe
> >> 1,500 miles on a GP5000 and that is wearing a flat spot on the rear and
> >> switching it to the front and wearing a flat spot on the rear again.
> > Definitely not my experience with Conti's and no flat spots they wear
> > very even. I am a bit under 6'2 and 169 lbs.
> > Deacon Mark
> >
> My experience is closer to Tom’s in that most road tires lasted 2k ish
> (miles) rear the front generally getting torn up by flints and what not.
>
> With the Gravel tires bit less 1K to 1500 miles.
>
> I’m well over 200lb I think!
>
> Roger Merman
>
> I like Schwalbe's Big Apples. Normally I throw them off halfworn at 5000+m/8500km, because that is a convenient service cycle multiple for the Rohloff gearbox. But if tyres will get as expensive as Sepp appears to fear, I will put the halfworn ones back on, just swapped back to front, and run them till anti-puncture layer shows, which is what Schwalbe advises.
>
Just having to change tires at 1K or 1500m like you lot do would send me up the bloody wall with the waste of my time, never mind if the same inconsiderate tyres also have the habit of getting flats. On my Big Apples I've had two flats in about 11,000km, and both were my fault, in that I crashed through a new pothole at over 50kph at the end of the month (I check tyre inflation on the first ride in the new month, and if it is under 2 bar add some air) for one and for the other jumped onto a concrete stair-block on a building site.
>
Compared to what my time is worth, I don't care what tyres cost -- but now it turns out my Big Apples are very economical compared to the narrow, uncomfortable tyres used by the drop bar brigade! I knew I did something right when I specced my ideal bike!
>
Andre Jute
Chuffed
>

Andre Jute <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:57:30 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Mark Cleary <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:08:22 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:28:54 PM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:45:26 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 1:47:02 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>>>>>>> Am Wed, 13 Jul 2022 23:20:42 +0200 schrieb Sepp Ruf
>>>>>>> <inq...@Safe-mail.net>:
>>>>>>>> "Never trust Contis to perform any longer than four falls!"
>>>>>>> Not my experience for a long time. They did have problems with somewhat
>>>>>>> fragile sidewalls years ago.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen
>>>>>> They had quite rapid wear life with my GP5000's but otherwise were a
>>>>>> nice tire. Although my experience is that the Michelin Pro4 ix just
>>>>>> about the perfect tire combining low wear and low rolling resistance
>>>>>> and a comfortable ride and CHEAPER than the Continentals or
>>>>>> Vittoria's. I have also been having good luck with the Goodyear Eagles.
>>>>> My Conti GP 5000 last me 5000 to 6000 miles not Kilometers.
>>>> I wonder what size you are. I'm 6'4" and 185 lbs. I could get maybe
>>>> 1,500 miles on a GP5000 and that is wearing a flat spot on the rear and
>>>> switching it to the front and wearing a flat spot on the rear again.
>>> Definitely not my experience with Conti's and no flat spots they wear
>>> very even. I am a bit under 6'2 and 169 lbs.
>>> Deacon Mark
>>>
>> My experience is closer to Tom’s in that most road tires lasted 2k ish
>> (miles) rear the front generally getting torn up by flints and what not.
>>
>> With the Gravel tires bit less 1K to 1500 miles.
>>
>> I’m well over 200lb I think!
>>
>> Roger Merman
>>
>> I like Schwalbe's Big Apples. Normally I throw them off halfworn at
>> 5000+m/8500km, because that is a convenient service cycle multiple for
>> the Rohloff gearbox. But if tyres will get as expensive as Sepp appears
>> to fear, I will put the halfworn ones back on, just swapped back to
>> front, and run them till anti-puncture layer shows, which is what Schwalbe advises.
>>
> Just having to change tires at 1K or 1500m like you lot do would send me
> up the bloody wall with the waste of my time, never mind if the same
> inconsiderate tyres also have the habit of getting flats. On my Big
> Apples I've had two flats in about 11,000km, and both were my fault, in
> that I crashed through a new pothole at over 50kph at the end of the
> month (I check tyre inflation on the first ride in the new month, and if
> it is under 2 bar add some air) for one and for the other jumped onto a
> concrete stair-block on a building site.

I have big apples on the commute beastie lasts a good 5k, before it gets
too torn up, at which point either I change them or they puncture or both.
>>
> Compared to what my time is worth, I don't care what tyres cost -- but
> now it turns out my Big Apples are very economical compared to the
> narrow, uncomfortable tyres used by the drop bar brigade! I knew I did
> something right when I specced my ideal bike!
>>

Really very different tyres much heavier, and harder compound and on a
gravel bike would feel quite heavy and sluggish let alone low grip levels.

On the MTB even less grip, and would be pushing the sidewalls hard the risk
of ripping would be quite high!

They are great tires but they are firmly commuting/utility type tires.

> Andre Jute
> Chuffed
>>
>
Roger Merriman

On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 7:09:36 AM UTC+2, Andre Jute wrote

> Compared to what my time is worth, I don't care what tyres cost -- but now it turns out my Big Apples are very economical compared to the narrow, uncomfortable tyres used by the drop bar brigade! I knew I did something right when I specced my ideal bike!

This member of the drop bar brigade can change his not uncomfortable rear tire (you are wrong about that for some time now) in 20% of the time you need to change a rear tire on your bike. Just FYI.

Lou

Andre Jute wrote:
> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:57:30 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Mark Cleary <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:08:22 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:28:54 PM UTC-7,
>>>> deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:45:26 PM UTC-5,
>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:

>>>>>> They had quite rapid wear life with my GP5000's but
>>>>>> otherwise were a nice tire. Although my experience is that
>>>>>> the Michelin Pro4 ix just about the perfect tire combining
>>>>>> low wear and low rolling resistance and a comfortable ride
>>>>>> and CHEAPER than the Continentals or Vittoria's. I have
>>>>>> also been having good luck with the Goodyear Eagles.
>>>>> My Conti GP 5000 last me 5000 to 6000 miles not Kilometers.
>>>> I wonder what size you are. I'm 6'4" and 185 lbs. I could get
>>>> maybe 1,500 miles on a GP5000 and that is wearing a flat spot
>>>> on the rear and switching it to the front and wearing a flat
>>>> spot on the rear again.
>>> Definitely not my experience with Conti's and no flat spots they
>>> wear very even. I am a bit under 6'2 and 169 lbs. Deacon Mark
>>>
>> My experience is closer to Tom’s in that most road tires lasted 2k
>> ish (miles) rear the front generally getting torn up by flints and
>> what not.
>>
>> With the Gravel tires bit less 1K to 1500 miles.
>>
>> I’m well over 200lb I think!

> I like Schwalbe's Big Apples. Normally I throw them off halfworn at
> 5000+m/8500km, because that is a convenient service cycle multiple
> for the Rohloff gearbox. But if tyres will get as expensive as Sepp
> appears to fear,

Not necessarily in dollar terms, toilet paper rolls, coconuts, or Irish
pounds of peat.

<https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FFXdpblPX0AEOY3D.jpg>
(trigger warning: Mme Lagarde)

But given the European shituation, Conti might shift production
priorities and locations. India certainly has the manual labor to
produce these weight-weenie race tires, but it would be a learning curve
I don't fancy being a consumer part of.

> I will put the halfworn ones back on, just swapped
> back to front, and run them till anti-puncture layer shows, which
> is what Schwalbe advises.

I did that once with a Big Apple that, over a number of years, had seen
less mileage than ozone, etc. Was not worth the trouble, as the rubber
compound had already degraded and soon cought a first puncture.

--
<https://gordonhahn.com/2022/06/13/thoughtless-think-tanks-and-ukrainian-war-analysis/>
<https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/three-blind-kings-edward-luttwak>

On 7/16/2022 8:47 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
>> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:57:30 PM UTC+1, Roger
>> Merriman wrote:
>>> Mark Cleary <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:08:22 AM UTC-5,
>>>> cycl...@gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:28:54 PM UTC-7,
>>>>> deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:45:26 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>>>>>> They had quite rapid wear life with my GP5000's but
>>>>>>> otherwise were a nice tire. Although my experience is
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> the Michelin Pro4 ix just about the perfect tire
>>>>>>> combining
>>>>>>> low wear and low rolling resistance and a comfortable
>>>>>>> ride
>>>>>>> and CHEAPER than the Continentals or Vittoria's. I have
>>>>>>> also been having good luck with the Goodyear Eagles.
>>>>>> My Conti GP 5000 last me 5000 to 6000 miles not
>>>>>> Kilometers.
>>>>> I wonder what size you are. I'm 6'4" and 185 lbs. I
>>>>> could get
>>>>> maybe 1,500 miles on a GP5000 and that is wearing a
>>>>> flat spot
>>>>> on the rear and switching it to the front and wearing a
>>>>> flat
>>>>> spot on the rear again.
>>>> Definitely not my experience with Conti's and no flat
>>>> spots they
>>>> wear very even. I am a bit under 6'2 and 169 lbs. Deacon
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>> My experience is closer to Tom’s in that most road
>>> tires lasted 2k
>>> ish (miles) rear the front generally getting torn up by
>>> flints and
>>> what not.
>>>
>>> With the Gravel tires bit less 1K to 1500 miles.
>>>
>>> I’m well over 200lb I think!
>
>> I like Schwalbe's Big Apples. Normally I throw them off
>> halfworn at
>> 5000+m/8500km, because that is a convenient service cycle
>> multiple
>> for the Rohloff gearbox. But if tyres will get as
>> expensive as Sepp
>> appears to fear,
>
> Not necessarily in dollar terms, toilet paper rolls,
> coconuts, or Irish pounds of peat.
>
> <https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FFXdpblPX0AEOY3D.jpg>
> (trigger warning: Mme Lagarde)
>
> But given the European shituation, Conti might shift
> production priorities and locations. India certainly has
> the manual labor to produce these weight-weenie race tires,
> but it would be a learning curve I don't fancy being a
> consumer part of.
>
>> I will put the halfworn ones back on, just swapped
>> back to front, and run them till anti-puncture layer
>> shows, which
>> is what Schwalbe advises.
>
> I did that once with a Big Apple that, over a number of
> years, had seen less mileage than ozone, etc. Was not worth
> the trouble, as the rubber compound had already degraded and
> soon cought a first puncture.
>
>

In re Ms Lagarde, Mary McCarthy noted in a similar context,
"Every word she says is a lie, including and and the."

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 7:04:25 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 7/16/2022 8:47 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> > Andre Jute wrote:
> >> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:57:30 PM UTC+1, Roger
> >> Merriman wrote:
> >>> Mark Cleary <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:08:22 AM UTC-5,
> >>>> cycl...@gmail.com
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:28:54 PM UTC-7,
> >>>>> deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:45:26 PM UTC-5,
> >>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >>>>>>> They had quite rapid wear life with my GP5000's but
> >>>>>>> otherwise were a nice tire. Although my experience is
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> the Michelin Pro4 ix just about the perfect tire
> >>>>>>> combining
> >>>>>>> low wear and low rolling resistance and a comfortable
> >>>>>>> ride
> >>>>>>> and CHEAPER than the Continentals or Vittoria's. I have
> >>>>>>> also been having good luck with the Goodyear Eagles.
> >>>>>> My Conti GP 5000 last me 5000 to 6000 miles not
> >>>>>> Kilometers.
> >>>>> I wonder what size you are. I'm 6'4" and 185 lbs. I
> >>>>> could get
> >>>>> maybe 1,500 miles on a GP5000 and that is wearing a
> >>>>> flat spot
> >>>>> on the rear and switching it to the front and wearing a
> >>>>> flat
> >>>>> spot on the rear again.
> >>>> Definitely not my experience with Conti's and no flat
> >>>> spots they
> >>>> wear very even. I am a bit under 6'2 and 169 lbs. Deacon
> >>>> Mark
> >>>>
> >>> My experience is closer to Tom’s in that most road
> >>> tires lasted 2k
> >>> ish (miles) rear the front generally getting torn up by
> >>> flints and
> >>> what not.
> >>>
> >>> With the Gravel tires bit less 1K to 1500 miles.
> >>>
> >>> I’m well over 200lb I think!
> >
> >> I like Schwalbe's Big Apples. Normally I throw them off
> >> halfworn at
> >> 5000+m/8500km, because that is a convenient service cycle
> >> multiple
> >> for the Rohloff gearbox. But if tyres will get as
> >> expensive as Sepp
> >> appears to fear,
> >
> > Not necessarily in dollar terms, toilet paper rolls,
> > coconuts, or Irish pounds of peat.
> >
> > <https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FFXdpblPX0AEOY3D.jpg>
> > (trigger warning: Mme Lagarde)
> >
> > But given the European shituation, Conti might shift
> > production priorities and locations. India certainly has
> > the manual labor to produce these weight-weenie race tires,
> > but it would be a learning curve I don't fancy being a
> > consumer part of.
> >
> >> I will put the halfworn ones back on, just swapped
> >> back to front, and run them till anti-puncture layer
> >> shows, which
> >> is what Schwalbe advises.
> >
> > I did that once with a Big Apple that, over a number of
> > years, had seen less mileage than ozone, etc. Was not worth
> > the trouble, as the rubber compound had already degraded and
> > soon cought a first puncture.
> >
> >
> In re Ms Lagarde, Mary McCarthy noted in a similar context,
> "Every word she says is a lie, including and and the."

Perhaps she is related to Biden? "President Biden, are you planning on running again with your polling numbers so low?" "Yes, just look at my polls!" Do you suppose he is that far into the dark? He is the lowest polling President in history and doesn't even know it?

On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 1:39:27 PM UTC+1, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 7:09:36 AM UTC+2, Andre Jute wrote
> > Compared to what my time is worth, I don't care what tyres cost -- but now it turns out my Big Apples are very economical compared to the narrow, uncomfortable tyres used by the drop bar brigade! I knew I did something right when I specced my ideal bike!
> This member of the drop bar brigade can change his not uncomfortable rear tire (you are wrong about that for some time now) in 20% of the time you need to change a rear tire on your bike. Just FYI.
>
> Lou
>
I have no doubt that's true, Lou. But since I changed the front tyre twice in 11500km, I bet my total time given to changing tyres because of flats is less than yours for comparable mileage. Know any other three card tricks? -- AJ

On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 4:18:11 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 1:39:27 PM UTC+1, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 7:09:36 AM UTC+2, Andre Jute wrote
> > > Compared to what my time is worth, I don't care what tyres cost -- but now it turns out my Big Apples are very economical compared to the narrow, uncomfortable tyres used by the drop bar brigade! I knew I did something right when I specced my ideal bike!
> > This member of the drop bar brigade can change his not uncomfortable rear tire (you are wrong about that for some time now) in 20% of the time you need to change a rear tire on your bike. Just FYI.
> >
> > Lou
> >
> I have no doubt that's true, Lou. But since I changed the front tyre twice in 11500km, I bet my total time given to changing tyres because of flats is less than yours for comparable mileage. Know any other three card tricks? -- AJ

The largest impediment to changing tires these days is the tubeless tire rims. Get rid of those and changing a tire becomes almost a working pleasure. For awhile you couldn't get bike rims that were straight clinchers, now they are making a comeback. I can see why things like tubeless tires and disk brakes became popular - they have a strong following. But the more time passes the more people are seeing that steel bikes and clincher rims with rim brakes are very much of a modern trend and not a thing of the past.

Just this morning Bob Roll was mentioning on the Tour de France on the time to change a flat is now much longer with disk brakes and through axles for no particular advantage. Riders now have to prey that their team car isn't too far back so that they can get a bike change rather than a tire change because of the length of time to change a disk brake wheel.

On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 2:47:41 PM UTC+1, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:57:30 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Mark Cleary <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:08:22 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:28:54 PM UTC-7,
> >>>> deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:45:26 PM UTC-5,
> >>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>>>> They had quite rapid wear life with my GP5000's but
> >>>>>> otherwise were a nice tire. Although my experience is that
> >>>>>> the Michelin Pro4 ix just about the perfect tire combining
> >>>>>> low wear and low rolling resistance and a comfortable ride
> >>>>>> and CHEAPER than the Continentals or Vittoria's. I have
> >>>>>> also been having good luck with the Goodyear Eagles.
> >>>>> My Conti GP 5000 last me 5000 to 6000 miles not Kilometers.
> >>>> I wonder what size you are. I'm 6'4" and 185 lbs. I could get
> >>>> maybe 1,500 miles on a GP5000 and that is wearing a flat spot
> >>>> on the rear and switching it to the front and wearing a flat
> >>>> spot on the rear again.
> >>> Definitely not my experience with Conti's and no flat spots they
> >>> wear very even. I am a bit under 6'2 and 169 lbs. Deacon Mark
> >>>
> >> My experience is closer to Tom’s in that most road tires lasted 2k
> >> ish (miles) rear the front generally getting torn up by flints and
> >> what not.
> >>
> >> With the Gravel tires bit less 1K to 1500 miles.
> >>
> >> I’m well over 200lb I think!
> > I like Schwalbe's Big Apples. Normally I throw them off halfworn at
> > 5000+m/8500km, because that is a convenient service cycle multiple
> > for the Rohloff gearbox. But if tyres will get as expensive as Sepp
> > appears to fear,
> Not necessarily in dollar terms, toilet paper rolls, coconuts, or Irish
> pounds of peat.
>
> <https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FFXdpblPX0AEOY3D.jpg>
> (trigger warning: Mme Lagarde)
>
I was just chuckling at your choice of analogues to spondulicks, when you spoiled it all. You need to give three trigger warnings, one for the mention of her name, another for her photo, and preferably a third for her promotion of socialism.
>
> But given the European shituation, Conti might shift production
> priorities and locations. India certainly has the manual labor to
> produce these weight-weenie race tires, but it would be a learning curve
> I don't fancy being a consumer part of.
>
Now is that a proper attitude to fair trade? Schwalbe gets their tyres made in Malaysia, or did the last time I paid attention. I'd hate to think what they would cost if they were made in Germany.
>
> > I will put the halfworn ones back on, just swapped
> > back to front, and run them till anti-puncture layer shows, which
> > is what Schwalbe advises.
> I did that once with a Big Apple that, over a number of years, had seen
> less mileage than ozone, etc. Was not worth the trouble, as the rubber
> compound had already degraded and soon cought a first puncture.
>
Thanks for the tip. What I'll do instead of putting an old set back on, is run the current set of Big Apples until they die, just switching them front to back at the midway point of wear. That can be my experiment, to establish exactly how extraordinarily far the Big Apples last.
>
> --
> <https://gordonhahn.com/2022/06/13/thoughtless-think-tanks-and-ukrainian-war-analysis/>
> <https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/three-blind-kings-edward-luttwak>
>
Good heavens, Luttwak! I went to a couple of lectures by him, must be more than 50 years ago. He was a wild man of policy even then, ruthless adherence to the truth whether the pols wanted to hear it or not. His idea that Obama is still directing policy in the Biden Administration seems pretty likely too. He hasn't changed a millimetre, except for having less hair now.
>
Andre Jute
When I was twenty-five, it was a very good year --- Ervin Drake

On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 12:41:26 AM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 4:18:11 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 1:39:27 PM UTC+1, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 7:09:36 AM UTC+2, Andre Jute wrote
> > > > Compared to what my time is worth, I don't care what tyres cost -- but now it turns out my Big Apples are very economical compared to the narrow, uncomfortable tyres used by the drop bar brigade! I knew I did something right when I specced my ideal bike!
> > > This member of the drop bar brigade can change his not uncomfortable rear tire (you are wrong about that for some time now) in 20% of the time you need to change a rear tire on your bike. Just FYI.
> > >
> > > Lou
> > >
> > I have no doubt that's true, Lou. But since I changed the front tyre twice in 11500km, I bet my total time given to changing tyres because of flats is less than yours for comparable mileage. Know any other three card tricks? -- AJ
> The largest impediment to changing tires these days is the tubeless tire rims. Get rid of those and changing a tire becomes almost a working pleasure. For awhile you couldn't get bike rims that were straight clinchers, now they are making a comeback. I can see why things like tubeless tires and disk brakes became popular - they have a strong following. But the more time passes the more people are seeing that steel bikes and clincher rims with rim brakes are very much of a modern trend and not a thing of the past.
>
> Just this morning Bob Roll was mentioning on the Tour de France on the time to change a flat is now much longer with disk brakes and through axles for no particular advantage. Riders now have to prey that their team car isn't too far back so that they can get a bike change rather than a tire change because of the length of time to change a disk brake wheel.
>
What goes round comes round. The only question is who makes a buck out of the cycle of fashion in cycling. -- AJ

Andre Jute <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 2:47:41 PM UTC+1, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>> Andre Jute wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:57:30 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Mark Cleary <deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 9:08:22 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:28:54 PM UTC-7,
>>>>>> deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:45:26 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>>> cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> They had quite rapid wear life with my GP5000's but
>>>>>>>> otherwise were a nice tire. Although my experience is that
>>>>>>>> the Michelin Pro4 ix just about the perfect tire combining
>>>>>>>> low wear and low rolling resistance and a comfortable ride
>>>>>>>> and CHEAPER than the Continentals or Vittoria's. I have
>>>>>>>> also been having good luck with the Goodyear Eagles.
>>>>>>> My Conti GP 5000 last me 5000 to 6000 miles not Kilometers.
>>>>>> I wonder what size you are. I'm 6'4" and 185 lbs. I could get
>>>>>> maybe 1,500 miles on a GP5000 and that is wearing a flat spot
>>>>>> on the rear and switching it to the front and wearing a flat
>>>>>> spot on the rear again.
>>>>> Definitely not my experience with Conti's and no flat spots they
>>>>> wear very even. I am a bit under 6'2 and 169 lbs. Deacon Mark
>>>>>
>>>> My experience is closer to Tom’s in that most road tires lasted 2k
>>>> ish (miles) rear the front generally getting torn up by flints and
>>>> what not.
>>>>
>>>> With the Gravel tires bit less 1K to 1500 miles.
>>>>
>>>> I’m well over 200lb I think!
>>> I like Schwalbe's Big Apples. Normally I throw them off halfworn at
>>> 5000+m/8500km, because that is a convenient service cycle multiple
>>> for the Rohloff gearbox. But if tyres will get as expensive as Sepp
>>> appears to fear,
>> Not necessarily in dollar terms, toilet paper rolls, coconuts, or Irish
>> pounds of peat.
>>
>> <https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FFXdpblPX0AEOY3D.jpg>
>> (trigger warning: Mme Lagarde)
>>
> I was just chuckling at your choice of analogues to spondulicks, when you
> spoiled it all. You need to give three trigger warnings, one for the
> mention of her name, another for her photo, and preferably a third for
> her promotion of socialism.
>>
>> But given the European shituation, Conti might shift production
>> priorities and locations. India certainly has the manual labor to
>> produce these weight-weenie race tires, but it would be a learning curve
>> I don't fancy being a consumer part of.
>>
> Now is that a proper attitude to fair trade? Schwalbe gets their tyres
> made in Malaysia, or did the last time I paid attention. I'd hate to
> think what they would cost if they were made in Germany.
>>
>>> I will put the halfworn ones back on, just swapped
>>> back to front, and run them till anti-puncture layer shows, which
>>> is what Schwalbe advises.
>> I did that once with a Big Apple that, over a number of years, had seen
>> less mileage than ozone, etc. Was not worth the trouble, as the rubber
>> compound had already degraded and soon cought a first puncture.
>>
> Thanks for the tip. What I'll do instead of putting an old set back on,
> is run the current set of Big Apples until they die, just switching them
> front to back at the midway point of wear. That can be my experiment, to
> establish exactly how extraordinarily far the Big Apples last.

I’d assume the Marathon plus touring would out last the big Apple,
depending on usage, for myself the same, as both got cut up by the glass on
the commute, somewhere between 6/8k.

Without such damage, Ie not riding though such glass strewn areas, I’d
assume the Marathon Plus touring would easily get past 10k as the wear at
6/8k wasn’t that much.

Clearly the Marathons are a bit of pig to fit, though I never found them be
that 25mm or 50mm forms difficult, somewhat stiff to fit certainly.

>>
>> --
>> <https://gordonhahn.com/2022/06/13/thoughtless-think-tanks-and-ukrainian-war-analysis/>
>> <https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/three-blind-kings-edward-luttwak>
>>
> Good heavens, Luttwak! I went to a couple of lectures by him, must be
> more than 50 years ago. He was a wild man of policy even then, ruthless
> adherence to the truth whether the pols wanted to hear it or not. His
> idea that Obama is still directing policy in the Biden Administration
> seems pretty likely too. He hasn't changed a millimetre, except for having less hair now.
>>
> Andre Jute
> When I was twenty-five, it was a very good year --- Ervin Drake
>
Roger Merriman