I just got a message that my rides are being followed on Strava by none other than Liebermann. So I guess he is in love with the idea of living third person to someone that actually rides. If he had even half a brain he would know that a ride wouldn't be on Strava unless it was tracked with a Garmin or like.

But like his brilliant idea that he could discover private information by writing to someone, he thinks that he can discover a chink in the armor of a Garmin by reading Strava.

He should go back to declaring that Physics International never ran electron accelerators.

On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 09:58:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>I just got a message that my rides are being followed on Strava by none other than Liebermann.

Yes, that was me. I accidentally clicked on the follow button instead
of the name. I immediately unfollowed. Don't worry. Strava will let
you mark your account as "private" which requires your permission for
anyone to follow. I think you can also blow or allow certain
individuals (not sure).

Which is the real Tom Kunich?
<https://www.strava.com/athletes/44707301>
<https://www.strava.com/athletes/27432450>
You might want to remove one. Oh wait... is that your doppelganger,
which has the same name, lives in the same city, gets your postal
mail, and follows your every move?

Both of your accounts are empty as is mine:
<https://www.strava.com/athletes/103870441>
That's because to look at someone's ride record, one needs to have a
Strava account. So, I created one. I later decided that it might be
useful to track my walks and hikes which I do to keep my cardiologist
happy. The problem is that he also told me to NOT record the length
or duration of my walks and hikes and concentrate on keeping the heart
rate up. I met with the cardiolgist about a month ago, but forgot to
ask. Thanks for the reminder.

>So I guess he is in love with the idea of living third person to someone that actually rides. If he had even half a brain he would know that a ride wouldn't be on Strava unless it was tracked with a Garmin or like.

Well, you have several Garmin bicycle computahs. What's your excuse
for not showing the world your amazing rides and performance?

>But like his brilliant idea that he could discover private information by writing to someone, he thinks that he can discover a chink in the armor of a Garmin by reading Strava.

Nope. We were discussing your difficulties using Google Photos. I
mentioned that Strava would be more appropriate place to post
bicycling photos. I thought it would be nice if I double-checked if
you already had a Strava account.

I'm not sure what you mean by "discover a chink in the armor of Garmin
by reading Strava". Did you think that I was going to track you so I
could better prepare an ambush? The thought did cross my mind, but
with the high cost of gasoline these days, I would prefer to send a
GPS guided missile.

This looks useful:
"Strava GPX: Download GPX tracks from Strava"
<https://glops.ee/glops-globalspark-ou/glops-ee-apps/stratrax-strava-to-gpx/>
I could use the app to program a drone to follow you in near real
time.
"Just because you're paranoid, does not mean they're not out to get
you." (Joseph Heller in Catch 22).

>He should go back to declaring that Physics International never ran electron accelerators.

I didn't declare that. I did some Google searching on Physics
International when you first claimed to have worked there. I found
research reports, patents, and some company history. These gave me
some clues as to what they did. I was hoping that you could fill in
the blanks and supply some details, such as what YOU did working for
them. That hasn't happened yet.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 7:06:16 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 09:58:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I just got a message that my rides are being followed on Strava by none other than Liebermann.
> Yes, that was me. I accidentally clicked on the follow button instead
> of the name. I immediately unfollowed. Don't worry. Strava will let
> you mark your account as "private" which requires your permission for
> anyone to follow. I think you can also blow or allow certain
> individuals (not sure).
>
> Which is the real Tom Kunich?
> <https://www.strava.com/athletes/44707301>
> <https://www.strava.com/athletes/27432450>
> You might want to remove one. Oh wait... is that your doppelganger,
> which has the same name, lives in the same city, gets your postal
> mail, and follows your every move?
>
> Both of your accounts are empty as is mine:
> <https://www.strava.com/athletes/103870441>
> That's because to look at someone's ride record, one needs to have a
> Strava account. So, I created one. I later decided that it might be
> useful to track my walks and hikes which I do to keep my cardiologist
> happy. The problem is that he also told me to NOT record the length
> or duration of my walks and hikes and concentrate on keeping the heart
> rate up. I met with the cardiolgist about a month ago, but forgot to
> ask. Thanks for the reminder.
> >So I guess he is in love with the idea of living third person to someone that actually rides. If he had even half a brain he would know that a ride wouldn't be on Strava unless it was tracked with a Garmin or like.
> Well, you have several Garmin bicycle computahs. What's your excuse
> for not showing the world your amazing rides and performance?
> >But like his brilliant idea that he could discover private information by writing to someone, he thinks that he can discover a chink in the armor of a Garmin by reading Strava.
> Nope. We were discussing your difficulties using Google Photos. I
> mentioned that Strava would be more appropriate place to post
> bicycling photos. I thought it would be nice if I double-checked if
> you already had a Strava account.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "discover a chink in the armor of Garmin
> by reading Strava". Did you think that I was going to track you so I
> could better prepare an ambush? The thought did cross my mind, but
> with the high cost of gasoline these days, I would prefer to send a
> GPS guided missile.
>
> This looks useful:
> "Strava GPX: Download GPX tracks from Strava"
> <https://glops.ee/glops-globalspark-ou/glops-ee-apps/stratrax-strava-to-gpx/>
> I could use the app to program a drone to follow you in near real
> time.
> "Just because you're paranoid, does not mean they're not out to get
> you." (Joseph Heller in Catch 22).
> >He should go back to declaring that Physics International never ran electron accelerators.
> I didn't declare that. I did some Google searching on Physics
> International when you first claimed to have worked there. I found
> research reports, patents, and some company history. These gave me
> some clues as to what they did. I was hoping that you could fill in
> the blanks and supply some details, such as what YOU did working for
> them. That hasn't happened yet.
>
>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
This is what stalking someone entails. Get a grip on yourself, Jeff. You're making a public fool of yourself. You're the one who needs to be off RBT for a good long while, not Tom.
>
Andre Jute
God gave men obsessions as a cheap way of sorting the morons from the survivors.
>

On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 11:31:48 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 7:06:16 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 09:58:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >I just got a message that my rides are being followed on Strava by none other than Liebermann.
> > Yes, that was me. I accidentally clicked on the follow button instead
> > of the name. I immediately unfollowed. Don't worry. Strava will let
> > you mark your account as "private" which requires your permission for
> > anyone to follow. I think you can also blow or allow certain
> > individuals (not sure).
> >
> > Which is the real Tom Kunich?
> > <https://www.strava.com/athletes/44707301>
> > <https://www.strava.com/athletes/27432450>
> > You might want to remove one. Oh wait... is that your doppelganger,
> > which has the same name, lives in the same city, gets your postal
> > mail, and follows your every move?
> >
> > Both of your accounts are empty as is mine:
> > <https://www.strava.com/athletes/103870441>
> > That's because to look at someone's ride record, one needs to have a
> > Strava account. So, I created one. I later decided that it might be
> > useful to track my walks and hikes which I do to keep my cardiologist
> > happy. The problem is that he also told me to NOT record the length
> > or duration of my walks and hikes and concentrate on keeping the heart
> > rate up. I met with the cardiolgist about a month ago, but forgot to
> > ask. Thanks for the reminder.
> > >So I guess he is in love with the idea of living third person to someone that actually rides. If he had even half a brain he would know that a ride wouldn't be on Strava unless it was tracked with a Garmin or like.
> > Well, you have several Garmin bicycle computahs. What's your excuse
> > for not showing the world your amazing rides and performance?
> > >But like his brilliant idea that he could discover private information by writing to someone, he thinks that he can discover a chink in the armor of a Garmin by reading Strava.
> > Nope. We were discussing your difficulties using Google Photos. I
> > mentioned that Strava would be more appropriate place to post
> > bicycling photos. I thought it would be nice if I double-checked if
> > you already had a Strava account.
> >
> > I'm not sure what you mean by "discover a chink in the armor of Garmin
> > by reading Strava". Did you think that I was going to track you so I
> > could better prepare an ambush? The thought did cross my mind, but
> > with the high cost of gasoline these days, I would prefer to send a
> > GPS guided missile.
> >
> > This looks useful:
> > "Strava GPX: Download GPX tracks from Strava"
> > <https://glops.ee/glops-globalspark-ou/glops-ee-apps/stratrax-strava-to-gpx/>
> > I could use the app to program a drone to follow you in near real
> > time.
> > "Just because you're paranoid, does not mean they're not out to get
> > you." (Joseph Heller in Catch 22).
> > >He should go back to declaring that Physics International never ran electron accelerators.
> > I didn't declare that. I did some Google searching on Physics
> > International when you first claimed to have worked there. I found
> > research reports, patents, and some company history. These gave me
> > some clues as to what they did. I was hoping that you could fill in
> > the blanks and supply some details, such as what YOU did working for
> > them. That hasn't happened yet.
> >
> This is what stalking someone entails. Get a grip on yourself, Jeff. You're making a public fool of yourself. You're the one who needs to be off RBT for a good long while, not Tom.
> >
> Andre Jute
> God gave men obsessions as a cheap way of sorting the morons from the survivors.

As far as I can remember, I didn't like everyone and their brother trying to beat my times on Strava and withdrew from it. I talked about doing that many times. So exactly why was Liebermann stalking me with Strava unless there isn't any ends he won't go to? Writing to Aeolian ended up with a "none of your business" and that wasn't a hint enough? Clearly Liebermann is not a survivor. I guess he didn't like me describing him as what he actually told us he did.

On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 11:31:47 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 7:06:16 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 09:58:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I just got a message that my rides are being followed on Strava by none other than Liebermann.
>> Yes, that was me. I accidentally clicked on the follow button instead
>> of the name. I immediately unfollowed. Don't worry. Strava will let
>> you mark your account as "private" which requires your permission for
>> anyone to follow. I think you can also blow or allow certain
>> individuals (not sure).
>>
>> Which is the real Tom Kunich?
>> <https://www.strava.com/athletes/44707301>
>> <https://www.strava.com/athletes/27432450>
>> You might want to remove one. Oh wait... is that your doppelganger,
>> which has the same name, lives in the same city, gets your postal
>> mail, and follows your every move?
>>
>> Both of your accounts are empty as is mine:
>> <https://www.strava.com/athletes/103870441>
>> That's because to look at someone's ride record, one needs to have a
>> Strava account. So, I created one. I later decided that it might be
>> useful to track my walks and hikes which I do to keep my cardiologist
>> happy. The problem is that he also told me to NOT record the length
>> or duration of my walks and hikes and concentrate on keeping the heart
>> rate up. I met with the cardiolgist about a month ago, but forgot to
>> ask. Thanks for the reminder.
>> >So I guess he is in love with the idea of living third person to someone that actually rides. If he had even half a brain he would know that a ride wouldn't be on Strava unless it was tracked with a Garmin or like.
>> Well, you have several Garmin bicycle computahs. What's your excuse
>> for not showing the world your amazing rides and performance?
>> >But like his brilliant idea that he could discover private information by writing to someone, he thinks that he can discover a chink in the armor of a Garmin by reading Strava.
>> Nope. We were discussing your difficulties using Google Photos. I
>> mentioned that Strava would be more appropriate place to post
>> bicycling photos. I thought it would be nice if I double-checked if
>> you already had a Strava account.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean by "discover a chink in the armor of Garmin
>> by reading Strava". Did you think that I was going to track you so I
>> could better prepare an ambush? The thought did cross my mind, but
>> with the high cost of gasoline these days, I would prefer to send a
>> GPS guided missile.
>>
>> This looks useful:
>> "Strava GPX: Download GPX tracks from Strava"
>> <https://glops.ee/glops-globalspark-ou/glops-ee-apps/stratrax-strava-to-gpx/>
>> I could use the app to program a drone to follow you in near real
>> time.
>> "Just because you're paranoid, does not mean they're not out to get
>> you." (Joseph Heller in Catch 22).
>> >He should go back to declaring that Physics International never ran electron accelerators.
>> I didn't declare that. I did some Google searching on Physics
>> International when you first claimed to have worked there. I found
>> research reports, patents, and some company history. These gave me
>> some clues as to what they did. I was hoping that you could fill in
>> the blanks and supply some details, such as what YOU did working for
>> them. That hasn't happened yet.

>This is what stalking someone entails.

In the years that Tom and I have been debating various topics, this is
the first time that anyone has mentioned stalking.
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.misc/search?q=stalking>
Ignoring recent spam, most mentions of stalking are from the distant
past. None of them mention Tom.

Programming a drone to follow Tom is probably stalking. Ok, no drone.

>Get a grip on yourself, Jeff. You're making a public fool of yourself.

Maybe. I've responded badly to requests that I should cease debating
with Tom, even if he's wrong. The theory is that if I stop fact
checking his amazing facts and claims, peaceful harmony will emerge
from the off topic wasteland and RBT will then be a safe place to
discuss bicycling related topics. So, I disappeared for about 2 weeks
and nothing changed. I went back to business as usual.

Speaking of fools, you seem to favor attack over defense, which
currently means you're not answering my questions. That's fine, but
there's one I would like to have answered. You called me scum and
slime. In my defense, I itemized for you how I act and write in RBT.
I would like to know which of my actions inspired you to degenerate to
using name calling?

>You're the one who needs to be off RBT for a good long while, not Tom.

Perhaps. I'm not sure what I would do with all the spare time gained
from leaving RBT. I have to confess that I'm beginning to enjoy fact
checking Tom's rubbish. Doing the research has introduced me to
companies that I've never heard of, Yacht club politics, historical
fiction, statistical anomalies, alternative sciences, politicized
research, minority views, and of course, amazing facts (and possibly
relatives) personally crafted by Tom for the benefit of discussion. I
would never have seen such things had it not been for Tom introducing
them to RBT. The knowledge gained from Tom's efforts to educate us
has been both interesting and entertaining.

>Andre Jute
>God gave men obsessions as a cheap way of sorting the morons from the survivors.

Not to worry. The supply of morons is being constantly replenished.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

>
Jeff wants to know:
>You called me scum and slime. In my defense, I itemized for you how I act and write in RBT. I would like to know which of my actions inspired you to degenerate to using name calling?
>
That's an easy one. I've been calling Krygowski scum and slime for his anti-social actions for about twelve years, including his associates as they came to share in his crimes. You associated yourself to Krygowski's crimes, and naming you, as I name all Krygowski's associates in his crimes, followed naturally. I've explained this several times before. Sharpen up, sport, and *bug out*, and you may yet save yourself.
>
Andre Jute
Shirk not the duty of calling things by their proper names -- another meme Confucius never uttered.
>

On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 10:35:13 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 11:31:47 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 7:06:16 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 09:58:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I just got a message that my rides are being followed on Strava by none other than Liebermann.
> >> Yes, that was me. I accidentally clicked on the follow button instead
> >> of the name. I immediately unfollowed. Don't worry. Strava will let
> >> you mark your account as "private" which requires your permission for
> >> anyone to follow. I think you can also blow or allow certain
> >> individuals (not sure).
> >>
> >> Which is the real Tom Kunich?
> >> <https://www.strava.com/athletes/44707301>
> >> <https://www.strava.com/athletes/27432450>
> >> You might want to remove one. Oh wait... is that your doppelganger,
> >> which has the same name, lives in the same city, gets your postal
> >> mail, and follows your every move?
> >>
> >> Both of your accounts are empty as is mine:
> >> <https://www.strava.com/athletes/103870441>
> >> That's because to look at someone's ride record, one needs to have a
> >> Strava account. So, I created one. I later decided that it might be
> >> useful to track my walks and hikes which I do to keep my cardiologist
> >> happy. The problem is that he also told me to NOT record the length
> >> or duration of my walks and hikes and concentrate on keeping the heart
> >> rate up. I met with the cardiolgist about a month ago, but forgot to
> >> ask. Thanks for the reminder.
> >> >So I guess he is in love with the idea of living third person to someone that actually rides. If he had even half a brain he would know that a ride wouldn't be on Strava unless it was tracked with a Garmin or like.
> >> Well, you have several Garmin bicycle computahs. What's your excuse
> >> for not showing the world your amazing rides and performance?
> >> >But like his brilliant idea that he could discover private information by writing to someone, he thinks that he can discover a chink in the armor of a Garmin by reading Strava.
> >> Nope. We were discussing your difficulties using Google Photos. I
> >> mentioned that Strava would be more appropriate place to post
> >> bicycling photos. I thought it would be nice if I double-checked if
> >> you already had a Strava account.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure what you mean by "discover a chink in the armor of Garmin
> >> by reading Strava". Did you think that I was going to track you so I
> >> could better prepare an ambush? The thought did cross my mind, but
> >> with the high cost of gasoline these days, I would prefer to send a
> >> GPS guided missile.
> >>
> >> This looks useful:
> >> "Strava GPX: Download GPX tracks from Strava"
> >> <https://glops.ee/glops-globalspark-ou/glops-ee-apps/stratrax-strava-to-gpx/>
> >> I could use the app to program a drone to follow you in near real
> >> time.
> >> "Just because you're paranoid, does not mean they're not out to get
> >> you." (Joseph Heller in Catch 22).
> >> >He should go back to declaring that Physics International never ran electron accelerators.
> >> I didn't declare that. I did some Google searching on Physics
> >> International when you first claimed to have worked there. I found
> >> research reports, patents, and some company history. These gave me
> >> some clues as to what they did. I was hoping that you could fill in
> >> the blanks and supply some details, such as what YOU did working for
> >> them. That hasn't happened yet.
> >This is what stalking someone entails.
> In the years that Tom and I have been debating various topics, this is
> the first time that anyone has mentioned stalking.
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.misc/search?q=stalking>
> Ignoring recent spam, most mentions of stalking are from the distant
> past. None of them mention Tom.
>
> Programming a drone to follow Tom is probably stalking. Ok, no drone.
> >Get a grip on yourself, Jeff. You're making a public fool of yourself.
> Maybe. I've responded badly to requests that I should cease debating
> with Tom, even if he's wrong. The theory is that if I stop fact
> checking his amazing facts and claims, peaceful harmony will emerge
> from the off topic wasteland and RBT will then be a safe place to
> discuss bicycling related topics. So, I disappeared for about 2 weeks
> and nothing changed. I went back to business as usual.
>
> Speaking of fools, you seem to favor attack over defense, which
> currently means you're not answering my questions. That's fine, but
> there's one I would like to have answered. You called me scum and
> slime. In my defense, I itemized for you how I act and write in RBT.
> I would like to know which of my actions inspired you to degenerate to
> using name calling?
> >You're the one who needs to be off RBT for a good long while, not Tom.
> Perhaps. I'm not sure what I would do with all the spare time gained
> from leaving RBT. I have to confess that I'm beginning to enjoy fact
> checking Tom's rubbish. Doing the research has introduced me to
> companies that I've never heard of, Yacht club politics, historical
> fiction, statistical anomalies, alternative sciences, politicized
> research, minority views, and of course, amazing facts (and possibly
> relatives) personally crafted by Tom for the benefit of discussion. I
> would never have seen such things had it not been for Tom introducing
> them to RBT. The knowledge gained from Tom's efforts to educate us
> has been both interesting and entertaining.
> >Andre Jute
> >God gave men obsessions as a cheap way of sorting the morons from the survivors.
> Not to worry. The supply of morons is being constantly replenished.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 2:57:05 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> >
> Jeff wants to know:
> >You called me scum and slime. In my defense, I itemized for you how I act and write in RBT. I would like to know which of my actions inspired you to degenerate to using name calling?
> >
> That's an easy one. I've been calling Krygowski scum and slime for his anti-social actions for about twelve years, including his associates as they came to share in his crimes. You associated yourself to Krygowski's crimes, and naming you, as I name all Krygowski's associates in his crimes, followed naturally. I've explained this several times before. Sharpen up, sport, and *bug out*, and you may yet save yourself.
> >
> Andre Jute
> Shirk not the duty of calling things by their proper names -- another meme Confucius never uttered.
> >
>
> On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 10:35:13 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 11:31:47 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> > <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 7:06:16 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 09:58:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >I just got a message that my rides are being followed on Strava by none other than Liebermann.
> > >> Yes, that was me. I accidentally clicked on the follow button instead
> > >> of the name. I immediately unfollowed. Don't worry. Strava will let
> > >> you mark your account as "private" which requires your permission for
> > >> anyone to follow. I think you can also blow or allow certain
> > >> individuals (not sure).
> > >>
> > >> Which is the real Tom Kunich?
> > >> <https://www.strava.com/athletes/44707301>
> > >> <https://www.strava.com/athletes/27432450>
> > >> You might want to remove one. Oh wait... is that your doppelganger,
> > >> which has the same name, lives in the same city, gets your postal
> > >> mail, and follows your every move?
> > >>
> > >> Both of your accounts are empty as is mine:
> > >> <https://www.strava.com/athletes/103870441>
> > >> That's because to look at someone's ride record, one needs to have a
> > >> Strava account. So, I created one. I later decided that it might be
> > >> useful to track my walks and hikes which I do to keep my cardiologist
> > >> happy. The problem is that he also told me to NOT record the length
> > >> or duration of my walks and hikes and concentrate on keeping the heart
> > >> rate up. I met with the cardiolgist about a month ago, but forgot to
> > >> ask. Thanks for the reminder.
> > >> >So I guess he is in love with the idea of living third person to someone that actually rides. If he had even half a brain he would know that a ride wouldn't be on Strava unless it was tracked with a Garmin or like.
> > >> Well, you have several Garmin bicycle computahs. What's your excuse
> > >> for not showing the world your amazing rides and performance?
> > >> >But like his brilliant idea that he could discover private information by writing to someone, he thinks that he can discover a chink in the armor of a Garmin by reading Strava.
> > >> Nope. We were discussing your difficulties using Google Photos. I
> > >> mentioned that Strava would be more appropriate place to post
> > >> bicycling photos. I thought it would be nice if I double-checked if
> > >> you already had a Strava account.
> > >>
> > >> I'm not sure what you mean by "discover a chink in the armor of Garmin
> > >> by reading Strava". Did you think that I was going to track you so I
> > >> could better prepare an ambush? The thought did cross my mind, but
> > >> with the high cost of gasoline these days, I would prefer to send a
> > >> GPS guided missile.
> > >>
> > >> This looks useful:
> > >> "Strava GPX: Download GPX tracks from Strava"
> > >> <https://glops.ee/glops-globalspark-ou/glops-ee-apps/stratrax-strava-to-gpx/>
> > >> I could use the app to program a drone to follow you in near real
> > >> time.
> > >> "Just because you're paranoid, does not mean they're not out to get
> > >> you." (Joseph Heller in Catch 22).
> > >> >He should go back to declaring that Physics International never ran electron accelerators.
> > >> I didn't declare that. I did some Google searching on Physics
> > >> International when you first claimed to have worked there. I found
> > >> research reports, patents, and some company history. These gave me
> > >> some clues as to what they did. I was hoping that you could fill in
> > >> the blanks and supply some details, such as what YOU did working for
> > >> them. That hasn't happened yet.
> > >This is what stalking someone entails.
> > In the years that Tom and I have been debating various topics, this is
> > the first time that anyone has mentioned stalking.
> > <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.misc/search?q=stalking>
> > Ignoring recent spam, most mentions of stalking are from the distant
> > past. None of them mention Tom.
> >
> > Programming a drone to follow Tom is probably stalking. Ok, no drone.
> > >Get a grip on yourself, Jeff. You're making a public fool of yourself.
> > Maybe. I've responded badly to requests that I should cease debating
> > with Tom, even if he's wrong. The theory is that if I stop fact
> > checking his amazing facts and claims, peaceful harmony will emerge
> > from the off topic wasteland and RBT will then be a safe place to
> > discuss bicycling related topics. So, I disappeared for about 2 weeks
> > and nothing changed. I went back to business as usual.
> >
> > Speaking of fools, you seem to favor attack over defense, which
> > currently means you're not answering my questions. That's fine, but
> > there's one I would like to have answered. You called me scum and
> > slime. In my defense, I itemized for you how I act and write in RBT.
> > I would like to know which of my actions inspired you to degenerate to
> > using name calling?
> > >You're the one who needs to be off RBT for a good long while, not Tom.
> > Perhaps. I'm not sure what I would do with all the spare time gained
> > from leaving RBT. I have to confess that I'm beginning to enjoy fact
> > checking Tom's rubbish. Doing the research has introduced me to
> > companies that I've never heard of, Yacht club politics, historical
> > fiction, statistical anomalies, alternative sciences, politicized
> > research, minority views, and of course, amazing facts (and possibly
> > relatives) personally crafted by Tom for the benefit of discussion. I
> > would never have seen such things had it not been for Tom introducing
> > them to RBT. The knowledge gained from Tom's efforts to educate us
> > has been both interesting and entertaining.
> > >Andre Jute
> > >God gave men obsessions as a cheap way of sorting the morons from the survivors.
> > Not to worry. The supply of morons is being constantly replenished.

So you suppose that Liebermann even understands what people think about him? Here is a non bike rider who dares to say that I don't know how Campy components work when they don't even SAY THEMSELVES how they work. The mental illness continues to grow and people saying something about it politely he doesn't even understand. Instead the only one's that call a pig a pig are you and I. Slime and Scum is hardly half bad enough.

On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 14:57:04 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
(Ugh. Top posting reorganized. Please don't top post)

>Jeff wants to know:
>>You called me scum and slime. In my defense, I itemized for you how I act and write in RBT. I would like to know which of my actions inspired you to degenerate to using name calling?

>That's an easy one. I've been calling Krygowski scum and slime for his anti-social actions for about twelve years, including his associates as they came to share in his crimes. You associated yourself to Krygowski's crimes, and naming you, as I name all Krygowski's associates in his crimes, followed naturally. I've explained this several times before. Sharpen up, sport, and *bug out*, and you may yet save yourself.

Ah, got it. Guilt by association. That would make me guilty of
second degree scum and slime. Not quite a horrible as first decree.
Second degree only requires that I associate in some manner with a
first degree slug or slime. I don't actually have to do anything
wrong to inherit a second degree title. I presume there's also a
third degree slug or slime, for someone who unknowingly associates
with a first or second degree slug or slime. In the future, should
you find the need to label me, could you please describe the degree of
association.

However, that could cause a problem. People in RBT might hesitate to
agree with anyone for fear of being accused of being a second or third
degree slug or slime. Having everyone disagreeable is certainly a bad
thing.

Do you also believe the children of such sinners inherit the crimes of
their parents? I haven't conducted an census of those who might have
agreed with Frank, but I suspect his extended family might not
appreciate the labels.

Have you really thought this through? With little effort, the
population of slugs and slime could easily grow to a large percentage
of the population.

>Andre Jute
>Shirk not the duty of calling things by their proper names -- another meme Confucius never uttered.

Wiser word have yet to be spoken. That's a problem that I deal with
every day. I'm still fixing computers. Most of my friends and
customers have been chastised for providing no clues as to the make
and model of their equipment, supplying an ambiguous description of
the problem, misusing technical buzzwords, or other capital crimes in
the repair business. Obtaining these and other details often requires
an implied threat of violence if they fail to produce the required
names and numbers. The frustrating part is most will become repeat
offenders.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

>
Nope, you're guilty in the first degree, Jeff, right from your own mouth, when you told us you libelled Tom as a liar to a third party, his yacht club.. -- Andre Jute
>
On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 11:41:31 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 14:57:04 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> (Ugh. Top posting reorganized. Please don't top post)
> >Jeff wants to know:
> >>You called me scum and slime. In my defense, I itemized for you how I act and write in RBT. I would like to know which of my actions inspired you to degenerate to using name calling?
>
> >That's an easy one. I've been calling Krygowski scum and slime for his anti-social actions for about twelve years, including his associates as they came to share in his crimes. You associated yourself to Krygowski's crimes, and naming you, as I name all Krygowski's associates in his crimes, followed naturally. I've explained this several times before. Sharpen up, sport, and *bug out*, and you may yet save yourself.
> Ah, got it. Guilt by association. That would make me guilty of
> second degree scum and slime. Not quite a horrible as first decree.
> Second degree only requires that I associate in some manner with a
> first degree slug or slime. I don't actually have to do anything
> wrong to inherit a second degree title. I presume there's also a
> third degree slug or slime, for someone who unknowingly associates
> with a first or second degree slug or slime. In the future, should
> you find the need to label me, could you please describe the degree of
> association.
>
> However, that could cause a problem. People in RBT might hesitate to
> agree with anyone for fear of being accused of being a second or third
> degree slug or slime. Having everyone disagreeable is certainly a bad
> thing.
>
> Do you also believe the children of such sinners inherit the crimes of
> their parents? I haven't conducted an census of those who might have
> agreed with Frank, but I suspect his extended family might not
> appreciate the labels.
>
> Have you really thought this through? With little effort, the
> population of slugs and slime could easily grow to a large percentage
> of the population.
> >Andre Jute
> >Shirk not the duty of calling things by their proper names -- another meme Confucius never uttered.
> Wiser word have yet to be spoken. That's a problem that I deal with
> every day. I'm still fixing computers. Most of my friends and
> customers have been chastised for providing no clues as to the make
> and model of their equipment, supplying an ambiguous description of
> the problem, misusing technical buzzwords, or other capital crimes in
> the repair business. Obtaining these and other details often requires
> an implied threat of violence if they fail to produce the required
> names and numbers. The frustrating part is most will become repeat
> offenders.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 15:51:31 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Nope, you're guilty in the first degree, Jeff, right from your own mouth, when you told us you libelled Tom as a liar to a third party, his yacht club. -- Andre Jute

Sorry for the delay in responding. I had some priority repair jobs
that needed my attention.

How did you determine that I defamed Tom's reputation to a 3rd party
when I haven't disclosed what I wrote and you didn't read it? Are you
sure I accused Tom of doing anything? What I did was *ASK* the
Aeolian Yacht Club membership committee to:
1. Is Tom a club member?
2. Is Tom a life member?
3. Is Tom's membership card real?
I also provided some background including a link to RBT. I would be
interested in knowing if you consider asking a question can be
considered libel. I don't know. I are not a lawyer.

I don't plan to disclose the contents of my email message until I'm
done with this. There are some more things I can ask, which might
provide some confirmation of Tom's claims.

I did some reading on libel (defamation) in California. In order to
sue for damages or a cease and desist order, the victim must
demonstrate monetary damage to his current or potential income. Tom
has informed us that he has large amounts of money saved from
investments and that he is retired. In other words, he has no income.
He could claim that my comments affected his profits from selling
bicycles on eBay. However, I suspect a copy of his tax return would
be sufficient to prove that it's a hobby, not a business or
livelihood.

<https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-long-do-i-have-to-file-a-defamation-lawsuit-in-california.html>
"libel (which California Civil Code section 45 defines as "a false and
unprivileged publication" that is written, depicted, or otherwise
captured in some form that can be read or seen, and which exposes the
subject to "hatred, contempt, [or] ridicule," or which causes him or
her "to be shunned or avoided," or which injures his or her occupation
or livelihood)"

He could claim that I caused him "pain and anguish":
<https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/damages-defamation-case.html>
I would probably plead guilty to do that. The problem is that I
caused Tom "pain and anguish" by telling the truth and fact checking
his rubbish. It's not defamation when everything I claimed is true.
Notice that the above definition require that my claims be a false
claim in order to be actionable. He's not going to get a guilty
judgment if the court finds that I was telling the truth. Proving Tom
to be a compulsive liar would be very easy. I could file a counter
suit, claiming that Tom said nasty things about me which affected my
livelihood. Unfortunately, I retired in Dec 2020, so I would likely
be limited to suing for damage caused prior to retirement.

Andre: Tell me again how my asking the yacht club for confirmation of
Tom's membership status and life membership constitutes libel?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 09 Jul 2022 16:03:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 15:51:31 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
><fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Nope, you're guilty in the first degree, Jeff, right from your own mouth, when you told us you libelled Tom as a liar to a third party, his yacht club. -- Andre Jute
>
>Sorry for the delay in responding. I had some priority repair jobs
>that needed my attention.
>
>How did you determine that I defamed Tom's reputation to a 3rd party
>when I haven't disclosed what I wrote and you didn't read it? Are you
>sure I accused Tom of doing anything? What I did was *ASK* the
>Aeolian Yacht Club membership committee to:
>1. Is Tom a club member?
>2. Is Tom a life member?
>3. Is Tom's membership card real?
>I also provided some background including a link to RBT. I would be
>interested in knowing if you consider asking a question can be
>considered libel. I don't know. I are not a lawyer.
>
>I don't plan to disclose the contents of my email message until I'm
>done with this. There are some more things I can ask, which might
>provide some confirmation of Tom's claims.
>
>I did some reading on libel (defamation) in California. In order to
>sue for damages or a cease and desist order, the victim must
>demonstrate monetary damage to his current or potential income. Tom
>has informed us that he has large amounts of money saved from
>investments and that he is retired. In other words, he has no income.
>He could claim that my comments affected his profits from selling
>bicycles on eBay. However, I suspect a copy of his tax return would
>be sufficient to prove that it's a hobby, not a business or
>livelihood.
>
><https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-long-do-i-have-to-file-a-defamation-lawsuit-in-california.html>
>"libel (which California Civil Code section 45 defines as "a false and
>unprivileged publication" that is written, depicted, or otherwise
>captured in some form that can be read or seen, and which exposes the
>subject to "hatred, contempt, [or] ridicule," or which causes him or
>her "to be shunned or avoided," or which injures his or her occupation
>or livelihood)"
>
>He could claim that I caused him "pain and anguish":
><https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/damages-defamation-case.html>
>I would probably plead guilty to do that. The problem is that I
>caused Tom "pain and anguish" by telling the truth and fact checking
>his rubbish. It's not defamation when everything I claimed is true.
>Notice that the above definition require that my claims be a false
>claim in order to be actionable. He's not going to get a guilty
>judgment if the court finds that I was telling the truth. Proving Tom
>to be a compulsive liar would be very easy. I could file a counter
>suit, claiming that Tom said nasty things about me which affected my
>livelihood. Unfortunately, I retired in Dec 2020, so I would likely
>be limited to suing for damage caused prior to retirement.
>
>Andre: Tell me again how my asking the yacht club for confirmation of
>Tom's membership status and life membership constitutes libel?

Ah Jeff, you just don't understand. You see, in Andy's world simply
telling the truth is defamation and libel... you are undermining their
self perceived opinion of themselves (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 7/9/2022 7:20 PM, John B. wrote:
>
>
> Ah Jeff, you just don't understand. You see, in [Andre's] world simply
> telling the truth is defamation and libel... you are undermining their
> self perceived opinion of themselves (:-)

It's been conclusively shown that reality is biased against the far
right. Logically, then, stating the truth is contributing to that
terrible bias. Those poor snowflakes!

--
- Frank Krygowski

>
I have zero interest in your quibbling and hair-splitting. If you cannot grasp that the implication of your letter is that you doubt Tom's word, you're a moron, and I have no further interest in you except to kick you for your anti-social behaviour every time I see you.
>
Unsigned for the usual reason.
A chapter from one of my books for other authors dealing with how to avoid charges of libel was anthologised in several American volumes.
>
On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 12:04:08 AM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 15:51:31 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Nope, you're guilty in the first degree, Jeff, right from your own mouth, when you told us you libelled Tom as a liar to a third party, his yacht club. -- Andre Jute
> Sorry for the delay in responding. I had some priority repair jobs
> that needed my attention.
>
> How did you determine that I defamed Tom's reputation to a 3rd party
> when I haven't disclosed what I wrote and you didn't read it? Are you
> sure I accused Tom of doing anything? What I did was *ASK* the
> Aeolian Yacht Club membership committee to:
> 1. Is Tom a club member?
> 2. Is Tom a life member?
> 3. Is Tom's membership card real?
> I also provided some background including a link to RBT. I would be
> interested in knowing if you consider asking a question can be
> considered libel. I don't know. I are not a lawyer.
>
> I don't plan to disclose the contents of my email message until I'm
> done with this. There are some more things I can ask, which might
> provide some confirmation of Tom's claims.
>
> I did some reading on libel (defamation) in California. In order to
> sue for damages or a cease and desist order, the victim must
> demonstrate monetary damage to his current or potential income. Tom
> has informed us that he has large amounts of money saved from
> investments and that he is retired. In other words, he has no income.
> He could claim that my comments affected his profits from selling
> bicycles on eBay. However, I suspect a copy of his tax return would
> be sufficient to prove that it's a hobby, not a business or
> livelihood.
>
> <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-long-do-i-have-to-file-a-defamation-lawsuit-in-california.html>
> "libel (which California Civil Code section 45 defines as "a false and
> unprivileged publication" that is written, depicted, or otherwise
> captured in some form that can be read or seen, and which exposes the
> subject to "hatred, contempt, [or] ridicule," or which causes him or
> her "to be shunned or avoided," or which injures his or her occupation
> or livelihood)"
>
> He could claim that I caused him "pain and anguish":
> <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/damages-defamation-case.html>
> I would probably plead guilty to do that. The problem is that I
> caused Tom "pain and anguish" by telling the truth and fact checking
> his rubbish. It's not defamation when everything I claimed is true.
> Notice that the above definition require that my claims be a false
> claim in order to be actionable. He's not going to get a guilty
> judgment if the court finds that I was telling the truth. Proving Tom
> to be a compulsive liar would be very easy. I could file a counter
> suit, claiming that Tom said nasty things about me which affected my
> livelihood. Unfortunately, I retired in Dec 2020, so I would likely
> be limited to suing for damage caused prior to retirement.
>
> Andre: Tell me again how my asking the yacht club for confirmation of
> Tom's membership status and life membership constitutes libel?
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 20:51:17 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I have zero interest in your quibbling and hair-splitting. If you cannot grasp that the implication of your letter is that you doubt Tom's word, you're a moron, and I have no further interest in you except to kick you for your anti-social behaviour every time I see you.

If that's true, then all forms of written criticism would be
considered libel as would all forms of verbal criticism would be
considered slander. The distinction between critical writing and
libel is that libel requires that the criticism be false, unfair, and
detrimental to the alleged victim's reputation or income. You might
diminish the importance of such a definition as quibbling or
hair-splitting in order to avoid providing me with a proper
explanation for why you called me scum and slime, but those legal
definitions were contrived to protect innocent people from unfair
criticism. They exist so that accusers can be brought to a court of
law to determine the difference between valid criticism and various
forms of character assassination, such as Tom's politicized science.
Were those protections removed, and replaced by your proof by
assertion or pontification, chaos would surely prevail and we would be
dominated again by the unproven word of leaders, experts, demigods,
and others who believe in proof by assertion. In other words,
someone's word is only as good as their ability to substantiate what
they have written. Whether that is the disclosure of a new universal
truth or trivial quibbling is immaterial. Only their ability to
demonstrate truth is important.

>Unsigned for the usual reason.

The devil is in the details and I am a master of details and devils.

>A chapter from one of my books for other authors dealing with how to avoid charges of libel was anthologised in several American volumes.

Which one of your books? Which chapter? Which American anthologies?
You're no better than Tom if you can't or won't reveal your sources. I
don't accept your pompous pontifications at face value. Do you
consider it libel if I ask you to provide proof that you wrote a
chapter on avoiding libel? That's all I did when I asked the yacht
club to authenticate Tom's proof of life membership.

I haven't written any books on the topic. Does that make me wrong?

This message is signed out of common courtesy.

>On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 12:04:08 AM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 15:51:31 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Nope, you're guilty in the first degree, Jeff, right from your own mouth, when you told us you libelled Tom as a liar to a third party, his yacht club. -- Andre Jute
>> Sorry for the delay in responding. I had some priority repair jobs
>> that needed my attention.
>>
>> How did you determine that I defamed Tom's reputation to a 3rd party
>> when I haven't disclosed what I wrote and you didn't read it? Are you
>> sure I accused Tom of doing anything? What I did was *ASK* the
>> Aeolian Yacht Club membership committee to:
>> 1. Is Tom a club member?
>> 2. Is Tom a life member?
>> 3. Is Tom's membership card real?
>> I also provided some background including a link to RBT. I would be
>> interested in knowing if you consider asking a question can be
>> considered libel. I don't know. I are not a lawyer.
>>
>> I don't plan to disclose the contents of my email message until I'm
>> done with this. There are some more things I can ask, which might
>> provide some confirmation of Tom's claims.
>>
>> I did some reading on libel (defamation) in California. In order to
>> sue for damages or a cease and desist order, the victim must
>> demonstrate monetary damage to his current or potential income. Tom
>> has informed us that he has large amounts of money saved from
>> investments and that he is retired. In other words, he has no income.
>> He could claim that my comments affected his profits from selling
>> bicycles on eBay. However, I suspect a copy of his tax return would
>> be sufficient to prove that it's a hobby, not a business or
>> livelihood.
>>
>> <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-long-do-i-have-to-file-a-defamation-lawsuit-in-california.html>
>> "libel (which California Civil Code section 45 defines as "a false and
>> unprivileged publication" that is written, depicted, or otherwise
>> captured in some form that can be read or seen, and which exposes the
>> subject to "hatred, contempt, [or] ridicule," or which causes him or
>> her "to be shunned or avoided," or which injures his or her occupation
>> or livelihood)"
>>
>> He could claim that I caused him "pain and anguish":
>> <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/damages-defamation-case.html>
>> I would probably plead guilty to do that. The problem is that I
>> caused Tom "pain and anguish" by telling the truth and fact checking
>> his rubbish. It's not defamation when everything I claimed is true.
>> Notice that the above definition require that my claims be a false
>> claim in order to be actionable. He's not going to get a guilty
>> judgment if the court finds that I was telling the truth. Proving Tom
>> to be a compulsive liar would be very easy. I could file a counter
>> suit, claiming that Tom said nasty things about me which affected my
>> livelihood. Unfortunately, I retired in Dec 2020, so I would likely
>> be limited to suing for damage caused prior to retirement.
>>
>> Andre: Tell me again how my asking the yacht club for confirmation of
>> Tom's membership status and life membership constitutes libel?
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:51:18 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> >
> I have zero interest in your quibbling and hair-splitting. If you cannot grasp that the implication of your letter is that you doubt Tom's word, you're a moron, and I have no further interest in you except to kick you for your anti-social behaviour every time I see you.
> >
> Unsigned for the usual reason.
> A chapter from one of my books for other authors dealing with how to avoid charges of libel was anthologised in several American volumes.
> >
> On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 12:04:08 AM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 15:51:31 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> > <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Nope, you're guilty in the first degree, Jeff, right from your own mouth, when you told us you libelled Tom as a liar to a third party, his yacht club. -- Andre Jute
> > Sorry for the delay in responding. I had some priority repair jobs
> > that needed my attention.
> >
> > How did you determine that I defamed Tom's reputation to a 3rd party
> > when I haven't disclosed what I wrote and you didn't read it? Are you
> > sure I accused Tom of doing anything? What I did was *ASK* the
> > Aeolian Yacht Club membership committee to:
> > 1. Is Tom a club member?
> > 2. Is Tom a life member?
> > 3. Is Tom's membership card real?
> > I also provided some background including a link to RBT. I would be
> > interested in knowing if you consider asking a question can be
> > considered libel. I don't know. I are not a lawyer.
> >
> > I don't plan to disclose the contents of my email message until I'm
> > done with this. There are some more things I can ask, which might
> > provide some confirmation of Tom's claims.
> >
> > I did some reading on libel (defamation) in California. In order to
> > sue for damages or a cease and desist order, the victim must
> > demonstrate monetary damage to his current or potential income. Tom
> > has informed us that he has large amounts of money saved from
> > investments and that he is retired. In other words, he has no income.
> > He could claim that my comments affected his profits from selling
> > bicycles on eBay. However, I suspect a copy of his tax return would
> > be sufficient to prove that it's a hobby, not a business or
> > livelihood.
> >
> > <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-long-do-i-have-to-file-a-defamation-lawsuit-in-california.html>
> > "libel (which California Civil Code section 45 defines as "a false and
> > unprivileged publication" that is written, depicted, or otherwise
> > captured in some form that can be read or seen, and which exposes the
> > subject to "hatred, contempt, [or] ridicule," or which causes him or
> > her "to be shunned or avoided," or which injures his or her occupation
> > or livelihood)"
> >
> > He could claim that I caused him "pain and anguish":
> > <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/damages-defamation-case.html>
> > I would probably plead guilty to do that. The problem is that I
> > caused Tom "pain and anguish" by telling the truth and fact checking
> > his rubbish. It's not defamation when everything I claimed is true.
> > Notice that the above definition require that my claims be a false
> > claim in order to be actionable. He's not going to get a guilty
> > judgment if the court finds that I was telling the truth. Proving Tom
> > to be a compulsive liar would be very easy. I could file a counter
> > suit, claiming that Tom said nasty things about me which affected my
> > livelihood. Unfortunately, I retired in Dec 2020, so I would likely
> > be limited to suing for damage caused prior to retirement.
> >
> > Andre: Tell me again how my asking the yacht club for confirmation of
> > Tom's membership status and life membership constitutes libel?
If you were to write one single word, it would be followed almost immediately by three pages of text from Liebermann and Slocum who have no understanding of the world around them. Losers always believe in their own minds that they are winners so simply putting them in a kill file is the only way to treat them. When you are confronted with nothing at all you treat it as such.

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 4:44:35 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:51:18 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > >
> > I have zero interest in your quibbling and hair-splitting. If you cannot grasp that the implication of your letter is that you doubt Tom's word, you're a moron, and I have no further interest in you except to kick you for your anti-social behaviour every time I see you.
> > >
> > Unsigned for the usual reason.
> > A chapter from one of my books for other authors dealing with how to avoid charges of libel was anthologised in several American volumes.
> > >
> > On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 12:04:08 AM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 15:51:31 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> > > <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Nope, you're guilty in the first degree, Jeff, right from your own mouth, when you told us you libelled Tom as a liar to a third party, his yacht club. -- Andre Jute
> > > Sorry for the delay in responding. I had some priority repair jobs
> > > that needed my attention.
> > >
> > > How did you determine that I defamed Tom's reputation to a 3rd party
> > > when I haven't disclosed what I wrote and you didn't read it? Are you
> > > sure I accused Tom of doing anything? What I did was *ASK* the
> > > Aeolian Yacht Club membership committee to:
> > > 1. Is Tom a club member?
> > > 2. Is Tom a life member?
> > > 3. Is Tom's membership card real?
> > > I also provided some background including a link to RBT. I would be
> > > interested in knowing if you consider asking a question can be
> > > considered libel. I don't know. I are not a lawyer.
> > >
> > > I don't plan to disclose the contents of my email message until I'm
> > > done with this. There are some more things I can ask, which might
> > > provide some confirmation of Tom's claims.
> > >
> > > I did some reading on libel (defamation) in California. In order to
> > > sue for damages or a cease and desist order, the victim must
> > > demonstrate monetary damage to his current or potential income. Tom
> > > has informed us that he has large amounts of money saved from
> > > investments and that he is retired. In other words, he has no income.
> > > He could claim that my comments affected his profits from selling
> > > bicycles on eBay. However, I suspect a copy of his tax return would
> > > be sufficient to prove that it's a hobby, not a business or
> > > livelihood.
> > >
> > > <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-long-do-i-have-to-file-a-defamation-lawsuit-in-california.html>
> > > "libel (which California Civil Code section 45 defines as "a false and
> > > unprivileged publication" that is written, depicted, or otherwise
> > > captured in some form that can be read or seen, and which exposes the
> > > subject to "hatred, contempt, [or] ridicule," or which causes him or
> > > her "to be shunned or avoided," or which injures his or her occupation
> > > or livelihood)"
> > >
> > > He could claim that I caused him "pain and anguish":
> > > <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/damages-defamation-case.html>
> > > I would probably plead guilty to do that. The problem is that I
> > > caused Tom "pain and anguish" by telling the truth and fact checking
> > > his rubbish. It's not defamation when everything I claimed is true.
> > > Notice that the above definition require that my claims be a false
> > > claim in order to be actionable. He's not going to get a guilty
> > > judgment if the court finds that I was telling the truth. Proving Tom
> > > to be a compulsive liar would be very easy. I could file a counter
> > > suit, claiming that Tom said nasty things about me which affected my
> > > livelihood. Unfortunately, I retired in Dec 2020, so I would likely
> > > be limited to suing for damage caused prior to retirement.
> > >
> > > Andre: Tell me again how my asking the yacht club for confirmation of
> > > Tom's membership status and life membership constitutes libel?
>
> If you were to write one single word, it would be followed almost immediately by three pages of text from Liebermann and Slocum who have no understanding of the world around them. Losers always believe in their own minds that they are winners so simply putting them in a kill file is the only way to treat them. When you are confronted with nothing at all you treat it as such.
>
I once tried that theory on the Magnequest Scum on rec.audio.tubes. I posted something like "The sun shone today," and that scum immediately turned it into another of their interminable flame wars. -- AJ
>

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 1:51:06 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 4:44:35 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:51:18 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > > >
> > > I have zero interest in your quibbling and hair-splitting. If you cannot grasp that the implication of your letter is that you doubt Tom's word, you're a moron, and I have no further interest in you except to kick you for your anti-social behaviour every time I see you.
> > > >
> > > Unsigned for the usual reason.
> > > A chapter from one of my books for other authors dealing with how to avoid charges of libel was anthologised in several American volumes.
> > > >
> > > On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 12:04:08 AM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 15:51:31 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> > > > <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Nope, you're guilty in the first degree, Jeff, right from your own mouth, when you told us you libelled Tom as a liar to a third party, his yacht club. -- Andre Jute
> > > > Sorry for the delay in responding. I had some priority repair jobs
> > > > that needed my attention.
> > > >
> > > > How did you determine that I defamed Tom's reputation to a 3rd party
> > > > when I haven't disclosed what I wrote and you didn't read it? Are you
> > > > sure I accused Tom of doing anything? What I did was *ASK* the
> > > > Aeolian Yacht Club membership committee to:
> > > > 1. Is Tom a club member?
> > > > 2. Is Tom a life member?
> > > > 3. Is Tom's membership card real?
> > > > I also provided some background including a link to RBT. I would be
> > > > interested in knowing if you consider asking a question can be
> > > > considered libel. I don't know. I are not a lawyer.
> > > >
> > > > I don't plan to disclose the contents of my email message until I'm
> > > > done with this. There are some more things I can ask, which might
> > > > provide some confirmation of Tom's claims.
> > > >
> > > > I did some reading on libel (defamation) in California. In order to
> > > > sue for damages or a cease and desist order, the victim must
> > > > demonstrate monetary damage to his current or potential income. Tom
> > > > has informed us that he has large amounts of money saved from
> > > > investments and that he is retired. In other words, he has no income.
> > > > He could claim that my comments affected his profits from selling
> > > > bicycles on eBay. However, I suspect a copy of his tax return would
> > > > be sufficient to prove that it's a hobby, not a business or
> > > > livelihood.
> > > >
> > > > <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-long-do-i-have-to-file-a-defamation-lawsuit-in-california.html>
> > > > "libel (which California Civil Code section 45 defines as "a false and
> > > > unprivileged publication" that is written, depicted, or otherwise
> > > > captured in some form that can be read or seen, and which exposes the
> > > > subject to "hatred, contempt, [or] ridicule," or which causes him or
> > > > her "to be shunned or avoided," or which injures his or her occupation
> > > > or livelihood)"
> > > >
> > > > He could claim that I caused him "pain and anguish":
> > > > <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/damages-defamation-case.html>
> > > > I would probably plead guilty to do that. The problem is that I
> > > > caused Tom "pain and anguish" by telling the truth and fact checking
> > > > his rubbish. It's not defamation when everything I claimed is true.
> > > > Notice that the above definition require that my claims be a false
> > > > claim in order to be actionable. He's not going to get a guilty
> > > > judgment if the court finds that I was telling the truth. Proving Tom
> > > > to be a compulsive liar would be very easy. I could file a counter
> > > > suit, claiming that Tom said nasty things about me which affected my
> > > > livelihood. Unfortunately, I retired in Dec 2020, so I would likely
> > > > be limited to suing for damage caused prior to retirement.
> > > >
> > > > Andre: Tell me again how my asking the yacht club for confirmation of
> > > > Tom's membership status and life membership constitutes libel?
> >
> > If you were to write one single word, it would be followed almost immediately by three pages of text from Liebermann and Slocum who have no understanding of the world around them. Losers always believe in their own minds that they are winners so simply putting them in a kill file is the only way to treat them. When you are confronted with nothing at all you treat it as such.
> >
> I once tried that theory on the Magnequest Scum on rec.audio.tubes. I posted something like "The sun shone today," and that scum immediately turned it into another of their interminable flame wars. -- AJ

It is interesting that the same people with nothing to add still want to do so.

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 10:44:35 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:51:18 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > >
> > I have zero interest in your quibbling and hair-splitting. If you cannot grasp that the implication of your letter is that you doubt Tom's word, you're a moron, and I have no further interest in you except to kick you for your anti-social behaviour every time I see you.
> > >
> > Unsigned for the usual reason.
> > A chapter from one of my books for other authors dealing with how to avoid charges of libel was anthologised in several American volumes.
> > >
> > On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 12:04:08 AM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 15:51:31 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> > > <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Nope, you're guilty in the first degree, Jeff, right from your own mouth, when you told us you libelled Tom as a liar to a third party, his yacht club. -- Andre Jute
> > > Sorry for the delay in responding. I had some priority repair jobs
> > > that needed my attention.
> > >
> > > How did you determine that I defamed Tom's reputation to a 3rd party
> > > when I haven't disclosed what I wrote and you didn't read it? Are you
> > > sure I accused Tom of doing anything? What I did was *ASK* the
> > > Aeolian Yacht Club membership committee to:
> > > 1. Is Tom a club member?
> > > 2. Is Tom a life member?
> > > 3. Is Tom's membership card real?
> > > I also provided some background including a link to RBT. I would be
> > > interested in knowing if you consider asking a question can be
> > > considered libel. I don't know. I are not a lawyer.
> > >
> > > I don't plan to disclose the contents of my email message until I'm
> > > done with this. There are some more things I can ask, which might
> > > provide some confirmation of Tom's claims.
> > >
> > > I did some reading on libel (defamation) in California. In order to
> > > sue for damages or a cease and desist order, the victim must
> > > demonstrate monetary damage to his current or potential income. Tom
> > > has informed us that he has large amounts of money saved from
> > > investments and that he is retired. In other words, he has no income.
> > > He could claim that my comments affected his profits from selling
> > > bicycles on eBay. However, I suspect a copy of his tax return would
> > > be sufficient to prove that it's a hobby, not a business or
> > > livelihood.
> > >
> > > <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-long-do-i-have-to-file-a-defamation-lawsuit-in-california.html>
> > > "libel (which California Civil Code section 45 defines as "a false and
> > > unprivileged publication" that is written, depicted, or otherwise
> > > captured in some form that can be read or seen, and which exposes the
> > > subject to "hatred, contempt, [or] ridicule," or which causes him or
> > > her "to be shunned or avoided," or which injures his or her occupation
> > > or livelihood)"
> > >
> > > He could claim that I caused him "pain and anguish":
> > > <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/damages-defamation-case.html>
> > > I would probably plead guilty to do that. The problem is that I
> > > caused Tom "pain and anguish" by telling the truth and fact checking
> > > his rubbish. It's not defamation when everything I claimed is true.
> > > Notice that the above definition require that my claims be a false
> > > claim in order to be actionable. He's not going to get a guilty
> > > judgment if the court finds that I was telling the truth. Proving Tom
> > > to be a compulsive liar would be very easy. I could file a counter
> > > suit, claiming that Tom said nasty things about me which affected my
> > > livelihood. Unfortunately, I retired in Dec 2020, so I would likely
> > > be limited to suing for damage caused prior to retirement.
> > >
> > > Andre: Tell me again how my asking the yacht club for confirmation of
> > > Tom's membership status and life membership constitutes libel?
> If you were to write one single word, it would be followed almost immediately by three pages of text from Liebermann and Slocum who have no understanding of the world around them.

> Losers always believe in their own minds that they are winners

Perfectly apt description of our Tommy. Provided by Tommy himself.

> so simply putting them in a kill file is the only way to treat them. When you are confronted with nothing at all you treat it as such.

On Sun, 10 Jul 2022 08:44:33 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:51:18 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>> >
>> I have zero interest in your quibbling and hair-splitting. If you cannot grasp that the implication of your letter is that you doubt Tom's word, you're a moron, and I have no further interest in you except to kick you for your anti-social behaviour every time I see you.
>> >
>> Unsigned for the usual reason.
>> A chapter from one of my books for other authors dealing with how to avoid charges of libel was anthologised in several American volumes.
>> >
>> On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 12:04:08 AM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 15:51:31 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>> > <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >Nope, you're guilty in the first degree, Jeff, right from your own mouth, when you told us you libelled Tom as a liar to a third party, his yacht club. -- Andre Jute
>> > Sorry for the delay in responding. I had some priority repair jobs
>> > that needed my attention.
>> >
>> > How did you determine that I defamed Tom's reputation to a 3rd party
>> > when I haven't disclosed what I wrote and you didn't read it? Are you
>> > sure I accused Tom of doing anything? What I did was *ASK* the
>> > Aeolian Yacht Club membership committee to:
>> > 1. Is Tom a club member?
>> > 2. Is Tom a life member?
>> > 3. Is Tom's membership card real?
>> > I also provided some background including a link to RBT. I would be
>> > interested in knowing if you consider asking a question can be
>> > considered libel. I don't know. I are not a lawyer.
>> >
>> > I don't plan to disclose the contents of my email message until I'm
>> > done with this. There are some more things I can ask, which might
>> > provide some confirmation of Tom's claims.
>> >
>> > I did some reading on libel (defamation) in California. In order to
>> > sue for damages or a cease and desist order, the victim must
>> > demonstrate monetary damage to his current or potential income. Tom
>> > has informed us that he has large amounts of money saved from
>> > investments and that he is retired. In other words, he has no income.
>> > He could claim that my comments affected his profits from selling
>> > bicycles on eBay. However, I suspect a copy of his tax return would
>> > be sufficient to prove that it's a hobby, not a business or
>> > livelihood.
>> >
>> > <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-long-do-i-have-to-file-a-defamation-lawsuit-in-california.html>
>> > "libel (which California Civil Code section 45 defines as "a false and
>> > unprivileged publication" that is written, depicted, or otherwise
>> > captured in some form that can be read or seen, and which exposes the
>> > subject to "hatred, contempt, [or] ridicule," or which causes him or
>> > her "to be shunned or avoided," or which injures his or her occupation
>> > or livelihood)"
>> >
>> > He could claim that I caused him "pain and anguish":
>> > <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/damages-defamation-case.html>
>> > I would probably plead guilty to do that. The problem is that I
>> > caused Tom "pain and anguish" by telling the truth and fact checking
>> > his rubbish. It's not defamation when everything I claimed is true.
>> > Notice that the above definition require that my claims be a false
>> > claim in order to be actionable. He's not going to get a guilty
>> > judgment if the court finds that I was telling the truth. Proving Tom
>> > to be a compulsive liar would be very easy. I could file a counter
>> > suit, claiming that Tom said nasty things about me which affected my
>> > livelihood. Unfortunately, I retired in Dec 2020, so I would likely
>> > be limited to suing for damage caused prior to retirement.
>> >
>> > Andre: Tell me again how my asking the yacht club for confirmation of
>> > Tom's membership status and life membership constitutes libel?
>If you were to write one single word, it would be followed almost immediately by three pages of text from Liebermann and Slocum who have no understanding of the world around them. Losers always believe in their own minds that they are winners so simply putting them in a kill file is the only way to treat them. When you are confronted with nothing at all you treat it as such.

Nope, Tommy gets it wrong again.

Liebermann and Slocomb only correct you when you tell lies.

Although it is true that you tell so many lies that it probably seems
like we correct every word you say.

Perhaps that could be a new title for your posts. "Tommy Boy, Every
Word a Lie"

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:00:00 PM UTC-4, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 10:44:35 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:51:18 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > > >
> > > I have zero interest in your quibbling and hair-splitting. If you cannot grasp that the implication of your letter is that you doubt Tom's word, you're a moron, and I have no further interest in you except to kick you for your anti-social behaviour every time I see you.
> > > >
> > > Unsigned for the usual reason.
> > > A chapter from one of my books for other authors dealing with how to avoid charges of libel was anthologised in several American volumes.
> > > >
> > > On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 12:04:08 AM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 15:51:31 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> > > > <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Nope, you're guilty in the first degree, Jeff, right from your own mouth, when you told us you libelled Tom as a liar to a third party, his yacht club. -- Andre Jute
> > > > Sorry for the delay in responding. I had some priority repair jobs
> > > > that needed my attention.
> > > >
> > > > How did you determine that I defamed Tom's reputation to a 3rd party
> > > > when I haven't disclosed what I wrote and you didn't read it? Are you
> > > > sure I accused Tom of doing anything? What I did was *ASK* the
> > > > Aeolian Yacht Club membership committee to:
> > > > 1. Is Tom a club member?
> > > > 2. Is Tom a life member?
> > > > 3. Is Tom's membership card real?
> > > > I also provided some background including a link to RBT. I would be
> > > > interested in knowing if you consider asking a question can be
> > > > considered libel. I don't know. I are not a lawyer.
> > > >
> > > > I don't plan to disclose the contents of my email message until I'm
> > > > done with this. There are some more things I can ask, which might
> > > > provide some confirmation of Tom's claims.
> > > >
> > > > I did some reading on libel (defamation) in California. In order to
> > > > sue for damages or a cease and desist order, the victim must
> > > > demonstrate monetary damage to his current or potential income. Tom
> > > > has informed us that he has large amounts of money saved from
> > > > investments and that he is retired. In other words, he has no income.
> > > > He could claim that my comments affected his profits from selling
> > > > bicycles on eBay. However, I suspect a copy of his tax return would
> > > > be sufficient to prove that it's a hobby, not a business or
> > > > livelihood.
> > > >
> > > > <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-long-do-i-have-to-file-a-defamation-lawsuit-in-california.html>
> > > > "libel (which California Civil Code section 45 defines as "a false and
> > > > unprivileged publication" that is written, depicted, or otherwise
> > > > captured in some form that can be read or seen, and which exposes the
> > > > subject to "hatred, contempt, [or] ridicule," or which causes him or
> > > > her "to be shunned or avoided," or which injures his or her occupation
> > > > or livelihood)"
> > > >
> > > > He could claim that I caused him "pain and anguish":
> > > > <https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/damages-defamation-case.html>
> > > > I would probably plead guilty to do that. The problem is that I
> > > > caused Tom "pain and anguish" by telling the truth and fact checking
> > > > his rubbish. It's not defamation when everything I claimed is true.
> > > > Notice that the above definition require that my claims be a false
> > > > claim in order to be actionable. He's not going to get a guilty
> > > > judgment if the court finds that I was telling the truth. Proving Tom
> > > > to be a compulsive liar would be very easy. I could file a counter
> > > > suit, claiming that Tom said nasty things about me which affected my
> > > > livelihood. Unfortunately, I retired in Dec 2020, so I would likely
> > > > be limited to suing for damage caused prior to retirement.
> > > >
> > > > Andre: Tell me again how my asking the yacht club for confirmation of
> > > > Tom's membership status and life membership constitutes libel?
> > If you were to write one single word, it would be followed almost immediately by three pages of text from Liebermann and Slocum who have no understanding of the world around them.
>
>
> > Losers always believe in their own minds that they are winners
> Perfectly apt description of our Tommy. Provided by Tommy himself.

+1

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 1:39:31 AM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 20:51:17 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I have zero interest in your quibbling and hair-splitting. If you cannot grasp that the implication of your letter is that you doubt Tom's word, you're a moron, and I have no further interest in you except to kick you for your anti-social behaviour every time I see you.
> If that's true, then all forms of written criticism would be
> considered libel as would all forms of verbal criticism would be
> considered slander. The distinction between critical writing and
> libel is that libel requires that the criticism be false, unfair, and
> detrimental to the alleged victim's reputation or income. You might
> diminish the importance of such a definition as quibbling or
> hair-splitting in order to avoid providing me with a proper
> explanation for why you called me scum and slime, but those legal
> definitions were contrived to protect innocent people from unfair
> criticism. They exist so that accusers can be brought to a court of
> law to determine the difference between valid criticism and various
> forms of character assassination, such as Tom's politicized science.
> Were those protections removed, and replaced by your proof by
> assertion or pontification, chaos would surely prevail and we would be
> dominated again by the unproven word of leaders, experts, demigods,
> and others who believe in proof by assertion. In other words,
> someone's word is only as good as their ability to substantiate what
> they have written. Whether that is the disclosure of a new universal
> truth or trivial quibbling is immaterial. Only their ability to
> demonstrate truth is important.
> >Unsigned for the usual reason.
> The devil is in the details and I am a master of details and devils.
> >A chapter from one of my books for other authors dealing with how to avoid charges of libel was anthologised in several American volumes.
> Which one of your books? Which chapter? Which American anthologies?
> You're no better than Tom if you can't or won't reveal your sources. I
> don't accept your pompous pontifications at face value. Do you
> consider it libel if I ask you to provide proof that you wrote a
> chapter on avoiding libel?

He probably posted it on that writers forum with 30K members he administers..

And no, andre, we know know you aren't an administrator of any writers forum, let alone one with 30K members. If it were true your narcissism would compel you to gloat the statistics with links to prove it. I have to admit it's lifted my day to poke back into this forum after being away and seeing you and tommy - aka the RBT circle-jerk twins - still making idiots of yourselves.