Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:

Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to Europe
multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other places, and have
traveled on dozens of car vacations. For those uses, quick and compact
folding was not a priority. Good thing, because these New World Tourists
definitely prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.

Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must fit in the car
behind the back seats. It's possible, but not easy. I determined that
one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
interfere with packing the other.

My solution was these removable pedals:
https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They make the folded
bike's package much narrower, so fitting everything in the car is much
easier.

But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble flipping the
pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based on experience with the
Lyotard Model 23s that originated this design, if the back tab were bent
downward a bit, she'd have a much easier time.

But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and I have no idea
what alloy or how much ductility it has.

Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that back tab
down, maybe 30 degrees?

(Yeah, I should probably just buy a couple Bromptons...)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 9:11:08 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:
>
> Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to Europe
> multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other places, and have
> traveled on dozens of car vacations. For those uses, quick and compact
> folding was not a priority. Good thing, because these New World Tourists
> definitely prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.
>
> Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
> at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must fit in the car
> behind the back seats. It's possible, but not easy. I determined that
> one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
> interfere with packing the other.
>
> My solution was these removable pedals:
> https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
> although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They make the folded
> bike's package much narrower, so fitting everything in the car is much
> easier.
>
> But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble flipping the
> pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based on experience with the
> Lyotard Model 23s that originated this design, if the back tab were bent
> downward a bit, she'd have a much easier time.
>
> But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and I have no idea
> what alloy or how much ductility it has.
>
> Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that back tab
> down, maybe 30 degrees?
>
> (Yeah, I should probably just buy a couple Bromptons...)
>
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

From your link I could not figure out what was so special about these pedals. Then I got to the EZY part. Quick change pedals. Apparently MKS has two different, incompatible, models. EZY and EZY Superior. Apparently they learned something bad from the first iteration. This EZY system. Is it similar to an air compressor attachment point? Pull the knurled circle back and the pedal axle can pull out?

As for your tab on the bottom of the pedals, find an aluminum welder and have him add some aluminum onto the tab and make it longer and stick out more.. No bending the tab and maybe cracking it.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 22:11:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>I determined that
>one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
>interfere with packing the other.

Steel and aluminum pedals are nice, but plastic is cheaper and unlike
steel or aluminum, it doesn't scratch what it touches. I recall
mentioning these Sunlite 67302 folding pedals in the distant past:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/Sunlite%2067302%20folding%20pedals/index.html>
However, they're not very durable. This was caused by me smashing
into a concrete curb:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/misc/Resin-Pedal.jpg>

Looks like they're still available:
<https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Folding-Pedals-9-16/dp/B0013GAR6M>
More:
<https://www.target.com/p/sunlite-folding-city-pedals-9-16in-black/-/A-82203745>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:11:08 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:
>
> Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to Europe
> multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other places, and have
> traveled on dozens of car vacations. For those uses, quick and compact
> folding was not a priority. Good thing, because these New World Tourists
> definitely prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.
>
> Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
> at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must fit in the car
> behind the back seats. It's possible, but not easy. I determined that
> one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
> interfere with packing the other.
>
> My solution was these removable pedals:
> https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
> although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They make the folded
> bike's package much narrower, so fitting everything in the car is much
> easier.
>
> But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble flipping the
> pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based on experience with the
> Lyotard Model 23s that originated this design, if the back tab were bent
> downward a bit, she'd have a much easier time.
>
> But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and I have no idea
> what alloy or how much ductility it has.
>
> Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that back tab
> down, maybe 30 degrees?
>

That is not a smart idea, bending thick casted aluminum. Why can't you remove your beloved Lyotard pedals?

Lou

On 7/25/2022 9:11 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:
>
> Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to
> Europe multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other
> places, and have traveled on dozens of car vacations. For
> those uses, quick and compact folding was not a priority.
> Good thing, because these New World Tourists definitely
> prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.
>
> Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
> at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must
> fit in the car behind the back seats. It's possible, but not
> easy. I determined that one obstacle was the pedals, which
> stick out enough to make one bike interfere with packing the
> other.
>
> My solution was these removable pedals:
> https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
>
> although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They make
> the folded bike's package much narrower, so fitting
> everything in the car is much easier.
>
> But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble
> flipping the pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based
> on experience with the Lyotard Model 23s that originated
> this design, if the back tab were bent downward a bit, she'd
> have a much easier time.
>
> But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and I
> have no idea what alloy or how much ductility it has.
>
> Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that
> back tab down, maybe 30 degrees?
>
> (Yeah, I should probably just buy a couple Bromptons...)
>
>

Right rick of cracking the plate is there.

A bolt sticking out the back works well, simple & quick.
There are pretty ones but just a 5mm bolt 20mm long does the
same thing:

https://f.eu1.jwwb.nl/public/w/c/s/temp-tfemsekqdnagoejmlbxw/lvdnhr/IMG_4058.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 7/26/2022 1:23 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 22:11:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> I determined that
>> one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
>> interfere with packing the other.
>
> Steel and aluminum pedals are nice, but plastic is cheaper and unlike
> steel or aluminum, it doesn't scratch what it touches. I recall
> mentioning these Sunlite 67302 folding pedals in the distant past:
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/Sunlite%2067302%20folding%20pedals/index.html>
> However, they're not very durable. This was caused by me smashing
> into a concrete curb:
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/misc/Resin-Pedal.jpg>
>
> Looks like they're still available:
> <https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Folding-Pedals-9-16/dp/B0013GAR6M>
> More:
> <https://www.target.com/p/sunlite-folding-city-pedals-9-16in-black/-/A-82203745>
>

I've never seen one of those which could take toeclips
without extensive modification. Foldinga toeclip pedal
doesn't give as narrow a package profile either.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:31:42 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:11:08 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:
> >
> > Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to Europe
> > multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other places, and have
> > traveled on dozens of car vacations. For those uses, quick and compact
> > folding was not a priority. Good thing, because these New World Tourists
> > definitely prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.
> >
> > Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
> > at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must fit in the car
> > behind the back seats. It's possible, but not easy. I determined that
> > one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
> > interfere with packing the other.
> >
> > My solution was these removable pedals:
> > https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
> > although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They make the folded
> > bike's package much narrower, so fitting everything in the car is much
> > easier.
> >
> > But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble flipping the
> > pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based on experience with the
> > Lyotard Model 23s that originated this design, if the back tab were bent
> > downward a bit, she'd have a much easier time.
> >
> > But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and I have no idea
> > what alloy or how much ductility it has.
> >
> > Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that back tab
> > down, maybe 30 degrees?
> >
> That is not a smart idea, bending thick casted aluminum. Why can't you remove your beloved Lyotard pedals?

Hasn't Frank made it clear that he prefers freewheel 5 speed bikes with one inch thick chains to avoid the necessity of lifting a wrench? He is a mechanical engineer and complaining about how difficult it is to fold a BROMPTON? That should certainly give you a clue as to why he won't simply remove the pedals - - why that might wear out the pedal threads.

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 5:54:46 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 7/26/2022 1:23 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 22:11:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >> I determined that
> >> one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
> >> interfere with packing the other.
> >
> > Steel and aluminum pedals are nice, but plastic is cheaper and unlike
> > steel or aluminum, it doesn't scratch what it touches. I recall
> > mentioning these Sunlite 67302 folding pedals in the distant past:
> > <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/Sunlite%2067302%20folding%20pedals/index.html>
> > However, they're not very durable. This was caused by me smashing
> > into a concrete curb:
> > <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/misc/Resin-Pedal.jpg>
> >
> > Looks like they're still available:
> > <https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Folding-Pedals-9-16/dp/B0013GAR6M>
> > More:
> > <https://www.target.com/p/sunlite-folding-city-pedals-9-16in-black/-/A-82203745>
> >
> I've never seen one of those which could take toeclips
> without extensive modification. Foldinga toeclip pedal
> doesn't give as narrow a package profile either.

Jeff who doesn't ride bicycles is suggesting changes to a bicycle. This is like his claim to have an EE degree but has never worked on anything but ham radios and repaired stock computers and printers, then denying that the entries on my resume are within my capacities.

On 7/26/2022 12:01 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 9:11:08 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:
>>
>> Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to Europe
>> multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other places, and have
>> traveled on dozens of car vacations. For those uses, quick and compact
>> folding was not a priority. Good thing, because these New World Tourists
>> definitely prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.
>>
>> Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
>> at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must fit in the car
>> behind the back seats. It's possible, but not easy. I determined that
>> one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
>> interfere with packing the other.
>>
>> My solution was these removable pedals:
>> https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
>> although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They make the folded
>> bike's package much narrower, so fitting everything in the car is much
>> easier.
>>
>> But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble flipping the
>> pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based on experience with the
>> Lyotard Model 23s that originated this design, if the back tab were bent
>> downward a bit, she'd have a much easier time.
>>
>> But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and I have no idea
>> what alloy or how much ductility it has.
>>
>> Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that back tab
>> down, maybe 30 degrees?
>>
>> (Yeah, I should probably just buy a couple Bromptons...)
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> From your link I could not figure out what was so special about these pedals. Then I got to the EZY part. Quick change pedals. Apparently MKS has two different, incompatible, models. EZY and EZY Superior. Apparently they learned something bad from the first iteration. This EZY system. Is it similar to an air compressor attachment point? Pull the knurled circle back and the pedal axle can pull out?

It's very similar to an air line quick connect. In addition to the axial
sliding motion, there's a twisting motion of the collar. It works very
well.

> As for your tab on the bottom of the pedals, find an aluminum welder and have him add some aluminum onto the tab and make it longer and stick out more. No bending the tab and maybe cracking it.

I've thought about adding something on, one way or another. (Andrew had
a similar suggestion.) On one set of pedals I have a legacy product
called "Toe Flips" that make standard pedals as easy to enter as the
Lyotards. Other such accessories still exist.

But about welding to these pedals, I figure any welding will happen if
and only if my bending causes a crack. I'd rather reshape these first,
and repair resulting cracks if necessary.

I've done a fair amount of steel welding, using oxy-acetylene, or arc,
or flux core. I don't have the equipment for really welding aluminum. I
do have some filler rods that claim to enable low temperature aluminum
welds (really, more like brazing) but my results have been mixed. Some
parts have done well, others held for a long time, but then failed.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/26/2022 10:01 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> Hasn't Frank made it clear that he prefers freewheel 5 speed bikes with one inch thick chains to avoid the necessity of lifting a wrench? He is a mechanical engineer and complaining about how difficult it is to fold a BROMPTON?

<sigh> No, Tom, that's roughly the opposite of what I was implying.

Your astonishing lack of reading comprehension is on display yet again.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/26/2022 5:31 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:11:08 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:
>>
>> Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to Europe
>> multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other places, and have
>> traveled on dozens of car vacations. For those uses, quick and compact
>> folding was not a priority. Good thing, because these New World Tourists
>> definitely prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.
>>
>> Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
>> at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must fit in the car
>> behind the back seats. It's possible, but not easy. I determined that
>> one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
>> interfere with packing the other.
>>
>> My solution was these removable pedals:
>> https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
>> although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They make the folded
>> bike's package much narrower, so fitting everything in the car is much
>> easier.
>>
>> But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble flipping the
>> pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based on experience with the
>> Lyotard Model 23s that originated this design, if the back tab were bent
>> downward a bit, she'd have a much easier time.
>>
>> But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and I have no idea
>> what alloy or how much ductility it has.
>>
>> Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that back tab
>> down, maybe 30 degrees?
>>
>
> That is not a smart idea, bending thick casted aluminum. Why can't you remove your beloved Lyotard pedals?

The Lyotards have been removed whenever the Fridays have been packed
into their travel cases for airline flights, so of course I can do that
when necessary.

But your question could also be asked about, say, quick release axles on
a road bike. "Why not just use axle nuts and a wrench?"

I'm interested in solutions that take less time and require no tools.
These detachable pedals achieve that. Their quick release works very well.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/26/2022 10:18 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 7/26/2022 12:01 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 9:11:08 PM UTC-5, Frank
>> Krygowski wrote:
>>> Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:
>>>
>>> Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to
>>> Europe
>>> multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other places,
>>> and have
>>> traveled on dozens of car vacations. For those uses,
>>> quick and compact
>>> folding was not a priority. Good thing, because these New
>>> World Tourists
>>> definitely prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.
>>>
>>> Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
>>> at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must
>>> fit in the car
>>> behind the back seats. It's possible, but not easy. I
>>> determined that
>>> one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to
>>> make one bike
>>> interfere with packing the other.
>>>
>>> My solution was these removable pedals:
>>> https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
>>>
>>> although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They
>>> make the folded
>>> bike's package much narrower, so fitting everything in
>>> the car is much
>>> easier.
>>>
>>> But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble
>>> flipping the
>>> pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based on
>>> experience with the
>>> Lyotard Model 23s that originated this design, if the
>>> back tab were bent
>>> downward a bit, she'd have a much easier time.
>>>
>>> But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and
>>> I have no idea
>>> what alloy or how much ductility it has.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending
>>> that back tab
>>> down, maybe 30 degrees?
>>>
>>> (Yeah, I should probably just buy a couple Bromptons...)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>
>> From your link I could not figure out what was so special
>> about these pedals. Then I got to the EZY part. Quick
>> change pedals. Apparently MKS has two different,
>> incompatible, models. EZY and EZY Superior. Apparently
>> they learned something bad from the first iteration. This
>> EZY system. Is it similar to an air compressor attachment
>> point? Pull the knurled circle back and the pedal axle
>> can pull out?
>
> It's very similar to an air line quick connect. In addition
> to the axial sliding motion, there's a twisting motion of
> the collar. It works very well.
>
>> As for your tab on the bottom of the pedals, find an
>> aluminum welder and have him add some aluminum onto the
>> tab and make it longer and stick out more. No bending the
>> tab and maybe cracking it.
>
> I've thought about adding something on, one way or another.
> (Andrew had a similar suggestion.) On one set of pedals I
> have a legacy product called "Toe Flips" that make standard
> pedals as easy to enter as the Lyotards. Other such
> accessories still exist.
>
> But about welding to these pedals, I figure any welding will
> happen if and only if my bending causes a crack. I'd rather
> reshape these first, and repair resulting cracks if necessary.
>
> I've done a fair amount of steel welding, using
> oxy-acetylene, or arc, or flux core. I don't have the
> equipment for really welding aluminum. I do have some filler
> rods that claim to enable low temperature aluminum welds
> (really, more like brazing) but my results have been mixed.
> Some parts have done well, others held for a long time, but
> then failed.
>

I gave up on aluminum braze- too many alloys, complex
problem. It's used in factory settings with success, often
inductive heat setup or oven process but they deal with a
known allow and a repeatable setup.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 5:25:40 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 7/26/2022 5:31 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

> >> Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that back tab
> >> down, maybe 30 degrees?
> >>
> >
> > That is not a smart idea, bending thick casted aluminum. Why can't you remove your beloved Lyotard pedals?
> The Lyotards have been removed whenever the Fridays have been packed
> into their travel cases for airline flights, so of course I can do that
> when necessary.
>
> But your question could also be asked about, say, quick release axles on
> a road bike. "Why not just use axle nuts and a wrench?"
>

You have quick release axles?

Lou

On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 07:54:35 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 7/26/2022 1:23 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 22:11:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I determined that
>>> one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
>>> interfere with packing the other.
>>
>> Steel and aluminum pedals are nice, but plastic is cheaper and unlike
>> steel or aluminum, it doesn't scratch what it touches. I recall
>> mentioning these Sunlite 67302 folding pedals in the distant past:
>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/Sunlite%2067302%20folding%20pedals/index.html>
>> However, they're not very durable. This was caused by me smashing
>> into a concrete curb:
>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/misc/Resin-Pedal.jpg>
>>
>> Looks like they're still available:
>> <https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Folding-Pedals-9-16/dp/B0013GAR6M>
>> More:
>> <https://www.target.com/p/sunlite-folding-city-pedals-9-16in-black/-/A-82203745>

>I've never seen one of those which could take toeclips
>without extensive modification. Foldinga toeclip pedal
>doesn't give as narrow a package profile either.

Oops. I missed the part about plastic toe clips in the original
question. The MKS Urban Platform EZY Pedals in the original posting:
<https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip>
involve a quick-release mechanism:
<https://www.tracksupermarket.com/pedals/mks-urban-platform-pedals.html>
I was proposing folding pedals as an alternative solution to the
problem of fitting two Bike Friday folding bicycles in the vehicle.
However, if toe clips are a requirement, then folding pedals probably
will not work.

An easy way to make toe clips work on a hinged pedal is to drill a
common cabinet hinge for the same two hole spacing as the two toe clip
mounting holes and add some kind of locking mechanism. When the
pedals are folded, the toe clips could be either rotated downward and
out of the way, or disconnected by removing the hinge pin(s). Patent
pending.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 7/26/2022 1:27 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 07:54:35 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 7/26/2022 1:23 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 22:11:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I determined that
>>>> one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
>>>> interfere with packing the other.
>>>
>>> Steel and aluminum pedals are nice, but plastic is cheaper and unlike
>>> steel or aluminum, it doesn't scratch what it touches. I recall
>>> mentioning these Sunlite 67302 folding pedals in the distant past:
>>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/Sunlite%2067302%20folding%20pedals/index.html>
>>> However, they're not very durable. This was caused by me smashing
>>> into a concrete curb:
>>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/misc/Resin-Pedal.jpg>
>>>
>>> Looks like they're still available:
>>> <https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Folding-Pedals-9-16/dp/B0013GAR6M>
>>> More:
>>> <https://www.target.com/p/sunlite-folding-city-pedals-9-16in-black/-/A-82203745>
>
>> I've never seen one of those which could take toeclips
>> without extensive modification. Foldinga toeclip pedal
>> doesn't give as narrow a package profile either.
>
> Oops. I missed the part about plastic toe clips in the original
> question. The MKS Urban Platform EZY Pedals in the original posting:
> <https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip>
> involve a quick-release mechanism:
> <https://www.tracksupermarket.com/pedals/mks-urban-platform-pedals.html>
> I was proposing folding pedals as an alternative solution to the
> problem of fitting two Bike Friday folding bicycles in the vehicle.
> However, if toe clips are a requirement, then folding pedals probably
> will not work.
>
> An easy way to make toe clips work on a hinged pedal is to drill a
> common cabinet hinge for the same two hole spacing as the two toe clip
> mounting holes and add some kind of locking mechanism. When the
> pedals are folded, the toe clips could be either rotated downward and
> out of the way, or disconnected by removing the hinge pin(s). Patent
> pending.
>
>

Many paths to victory of course but the MKS quick coupler is
the logical choice with toeclips.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 07:05:28 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>Jeff who doesn't ride bicycles is suggesting changes to a bicycle. This is like his claim to have an EE degree but has never worked on anything but ham radios and repaired stock computers and printers, then denying that the entries on my resume are within my capacities.

Are you still not getting enough attention? Do you expect everyone
(including me) to interrupt a genuine tech discussion and follow you
into the wilderness of off topic rambling, character assassination,
and political diatribes? I guess you expect me, and perhaps others,
to itemize your "capacities" and see how well they agree with your
resume. Sure. No problem. The average volume of the male body is
about 87 liters using the Archimedes method of capturing the overflow
from a bath tub. 87 liters is your approximate capacity.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 7/26/2022 5:31 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:11:08 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:
>>>
>>> Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to Europe
>>> multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other places, and have
>>> traveled on dozens of car vacations. For those uses, quick and compact
>>> folding was not a priority. Good thing, because these New World Tourists
>>> definitely prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.
>>>
>>> Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
>>> at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must fit in the car
>>> behind the back seats. It's possible, but not easy. I determined that
>>> one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
>>> interfere with packing the other.
>>>
>>> My solution was these removable pedals:
>>> https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
>>> although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They make the folded
>>> bike's package much narrower, so fitting everything in the car is much
>>> easier.
>>>
>>> But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble flipping the
>>> pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based on experience with the
>>> Lyotard Model 23s that originated this design, if the back tab were bent
>>> downward a bit, she'd have a much easier time.
>>>
>>> But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and I have no idea
>>> what alloy or how much ductility it has.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that back tab
>>> down, maybe 30 degrees?
>>>
>>
>> That is not a smart idea, bending thick casted aluminum. Why can't you
>> remove your beloved Lyotard pedals?
>
> The Lyotards have been removed whenever the Fridays have been packed
> into their travel cases for airline flights, so of course I can do that
> when necessary.
>
> But your question could also be asked about, say, quick release axles on
> a road bike. "Why not just use axle nuts and a wrench?"
>
> I'm interested in solutions that take less time and require no tools.
> These detachable pedals achieve that. Their quick release works very well.
>
I guess the question is what is the worse that happens if it snaps!

It’s also possible that your wife might get on the pedal on a 2nd try?

Other could be folding pedals such as Brompton and others.

Roger Merriman

On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 11:25:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 7/26/2022 5:31 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:11:08 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:
>>>
>>> Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to Europe
>>> multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other places, and have
>>> traveled on dozens of car vacations. For those uses, quick and compact
>>> folding was not a priority. Good thing, because these New World Tourists
>>> definitely prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.
>>>
>>> Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
>>> at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must fit in the car
>>> behind the back seats. It's possible, but not easy. I determined that
>>> one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
>>> interfere with packing the other.
>>>
>>> My solution was these removable pedals:
>>> https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
>>> although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They make the folded
>>> bike's package much narrower, so fitting everything in the car is much
>>> easier.
>>>
>>> But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble flipping the
>>> pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based on experience with the
>>> Lyotard Model 23s that originated this design, if the back tab were bent
>>> downward a bit, she'd have a much easier time.
>>>
>>> But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and I have no idea
>>> what alloy or how much ductility it has.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that back tab
>>> down, maybe 30 degrees?
>>>
>>
>> That is not a smart idea, bending thick casted aluminum. Why can't you remove your beloved Lyotard pedals?
>
>The Lyotards have been removed whenever the Fridays have been packed
>into their travel cases for airline flights, so of course I can do that
>when necessary.
>
>But your question could also be asked about, say, quick release axles on
>a road bike. "Why not just use axle nuts and a wrench?"
>
>I'm interested in solutions that take less time and require no tools.
>These detachable pedals achieve that. Their quick release works very well.

Why not just install folding pedals?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 07:01:06 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:31:42 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:11:08 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:
>> >
>> > Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to Europe
>> > multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other places, and have
>> > traveled on dozens of car vacations. For those uses, quick and compact
>> > folding was not a priority. Good thing, because these New World Tourists
>> > definitely prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.
>> >
>> > Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
>> > at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must fit in the car
>> > behind the back seats. It's possible, but not easy. I determined that
>> > one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
>> > interfere with packing the other.
>> >
>> > My solution was these removable pedals:
>> > https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
>> > although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They make the folded
>> > bike's package much narrower, so fitting everything in the car is much
>> > easier.
>> >
>> > But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble flipping the
>> > pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based on experience with the
>> > Lyotard Model 23s that originated this design, if the back tab were bent
>> > downward a bit, she'd have a much easier time.
>> >
>> > But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and I have no idea
>> > what alloy or how much ductility it has.
>> >
>> > Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that back tab
>> > down, maybe 30 degrees?
>> >
>> That is not a smart idea, bending thick casted aluminum. Why can't you remove your beloved Lyotard pedals?
>
>Hasn't Frank made it clear that he prefers freewheel 5 speed bikes with one inch thick chains to avoid the necessity of lifting a wrench? He is a mechanical engineer and complaining about how difficult it is to fold a BROMPTON? That should certainly give you a clue as to why he won't simply remove the pedals - - why that might wear out the pedal threads.

O.K. we got that.... Frank likes 5 speed and Tommy likes Garmin. The
difference seems to be that while Frank can operate his 5 speed, Tommy
Boy, (the electronic genus) can't operate his Garmin.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 7/26/2022 5:57 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 11:25:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 7/26/2022 5:31 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:11:08 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:
>>>>
>>>> Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to Europe
>>>> multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other places, and have
>>>> traveled on dozens of car vacations. For those uses, quick and compact
>>>> folding was not a priority. Good thing, because these New World Tourists
>>>> definitely prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.
>>>>
>>>> Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
>>>> at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must fit in the car
>>>> behind the back seats. It's possible, but not easy. I determined that
>>>> one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
>>>> interfere with packing the other.
>>>>
>>>> My solution was these removable pedals:
>>>> https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
>>>> although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They make the folded
>>>> bike's package much narrower, so fitting everything in the car is much
>>>> easier.
>>>>
>>>> But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble flipping the
>>>> pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based on experience with the
>>>> Lyotard Model 23s that originated this design, if the back tab were bent
>>>> downward a bit, she'd have a much easier time.
>>>>
>>>> But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and I have no idea
>>>> what alloy or how much ductility it has.
>>>>
>>>> Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that back tab
>>>> down, maybe 30 degrees?
>>>>
>>>
>>> That is not a smart idea, bending thick casted aluminum. Why can't you remove your beloved Lyotard pedals?
>>
>> The Lyotards have been removed whenever the Fridays have been packed
>> into their travel cases for airline flights, so of course I can do that
>> when necessary.
>>
>> But your question could also be asked about, say, quick release axles on
>> a road bike. "Why not just use axle nuts and a wrench?"
>>
>> I'm interested in solutions that take less time and require no tools.
>> These detachable pedals achieve that. Their quick release works very well.
>
>
> Why not just install folding pedals?
>
Because toeclips.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 6:11:43 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 07:01:06 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:31:42 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:11:08 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> > Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:
> >> >
> >> > Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to Europe
> >> > multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other places, and have
> >> > traveled on dozens of car vacations. For those uses, quick and compact
> >> > folding was not a priority. Good thing, because these New World Tourists
> >> > definitely prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.
> >> >
> >> > Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
> >> > at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must fit in the car
> >> > behind the back seats. It's possible, but not easy. I determined that
> >> > one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
> >> > interfere with packing the other.
> >> >
> >> > My solution was these removable pedals:
> >> > https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
> >> > although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They make the folded
> >> > bike's package much narrower, so fitting everything in the car is much
> >> > easier.
> >> >
> >> > But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble flipping the
> >> > pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based on experience with the
> >> > Lyotard Model 23s that originated this design, if the back tab were bent
> >> > downward a bit, she'd have a much easier time.
> >> >
> >> > But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and I have no idea
> >> > what alloy or how much ductility it has.
> >> >
> >> > Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that back tab
> >> > down, maybe 30 degrees?
> >> >
> >> That is not a smart idea, bending thick casted aluminum. Why can't you remove your beloved Lyotard pedals?
> >
> >Hasn't Frank made it clear that he prefers freewheel 5 speed bikes with one inch thick chains to avoid the necessity of lifting a wrench? He is a mechanical engineer and complaining about how difficult it is to fold a BROMPTON? That should certainly give you a clue as to why he won't simply remove the pedals - - why that might wear out the pedal threads.
> O.K. we got that.... Frank likes 5 speed and Tommy likes Garmin. The
> difference seems to be that while Frank can operate his 5 speed, Tommy
> Boy, (the electronic genus) can't operate his Garmin.
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

I'm pretty sure Frank has said his tandem is a 9 speed cassette. Triple crank. And Frank's other single bikes I don't think are 5 speed freewheel either. My memory could be wrong. But Frank's anti modern technology does not go back to the 1970s or 1960s bike tech. Downtube and barend shifters were widely used with 6 and 7 speed freewheels and cassettes too.

On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 11:48:45 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 07:05:28 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Jeff who doesn't ride bicycles is suggesting changes to a bicycle. This is like his claim to have an EE degree but has never worked on anything but ham radios and repaired stock computers and printers, then denying that the entries on my resume are within my capacities.
>
>Are you still not getting enough attention? Do you expect everyone
>(including me) to interrupt a genuine tech discussion and follow you
>into the wilderness of off topic rambling, character assassination,
>and political diatribes? I guess you expect me, and perhaps others,
>to itemize your "capacities" and see how well they agree with your
>resume. Sure. No problem. The average volume of the male body is
>about 87 liters using the Archimedes method of capturing the overflow
>from a bath tub. 87 liters is your approximate capacity.

Hey Jeff...

I'm currently reading a book by Daniel Silva and in it one of the main
characters says,
"I'm an old man. I've spent my entire life telling lies. To me, lies
are more comfortable then the truth."

It leads one to think that perhaps Daniel knew old Tommy as the
description fits him so well.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 18:53:07 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 7/26/2022 5:57 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 11:25:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/26/2022 5:31 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:11:08 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:
>>>>>
>>>>> Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to Europe
>>>>> multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other places, and have
>>>>> traveled on dozens of car vacations. For those uses, quick and compact
>>>>> folding was not a priority. Good thing, because these New World Tourists
>>>>> definitely prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
>>>>> at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must fit in the car
>>>>> behind the back seats. It's possible, but not easy. I determined that
>>>>> one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
>>>>> interfere with packing the other.
>>>>>
>>>>> My solution was these removable pedals:
>>>>> https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
>>>>> although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They make the folded
>>>>> bike's package much narrower, so fitting everything in the car is much
>>>>> easier.
>>>>>
>>>>> But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble flipping the
>>>>> pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based on experience with the
>>>>> Lyotard Model 23s that originated this design, if the back tab were bent
>>>>> downward a bit, she'd have a much easier time.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and I have no idea
>>>>> what alloy or how much ductility it has.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that back tab
>>>>> down, maybe 30 degrees?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is not a smart idea, bending thick casted aluminum. Why can't you remove your beloved Lyotard pedals?
>>>
>>> The Lyotards have been removed whenever the Fridays have been packed
>>> into their travel cases for airline flights, so of course I can do that
>>> when necessary.
>>>
>>> But your question could also be asked about, say, quick release axles on
>>> a road bike. "Why not just use axle nuts and a wrench?"
>>>
>>> I'm interested in solutions that take less time and require no tools.
>>> These detachable pedals achieve that. Their quick release works very well.
>>
>>
>> Why not just install folding pedals?
>>
>Because toeclips.

Somehow I had the idea that Frank was talking about limited or casual
cycling while visiting Grand Kids. If so then are toe clips really
necessary?

My neighbor does his morning ride... usually an hour or so - with flat
pedals and sandals - what you probably call "flip-flops".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 16:56:07 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 6:11:43 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 07:01:06 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:31:42 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> >> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 4:11:08 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >> > Since we're desperately short of technical discussions here:
>> >> >
>> >> > Our folding Bike Fridays have flown in their suitcases to Europe
>> >> > multiple times, to Florida and Oregon and other places, and have
>> >> > traveled on dozens of car vacations. For those uses, quick and compact
>> >> > folding was not a priority. Good thing, because these New World Tourists
>> >> > definitely prioritize ride quality over quick compact folds.
>> >> >
>> >> > Our use of the bikes has now changed. They're being used for
>> >> > at-least-weekly trips to visit grandkids, where they must fit in the car
>> >> > behind the back seats. It's possible, but not easy. I determined that
>> >> > one obstacle was the pedals, which stick out enough to make one bike
>> >> > interfere with packing the other.
>> >> >
>> >> > My solution was these removable pedals:
>> >> > https://road.cc/content/review/142188-mks-urban-platform-ezy-pedals-steel-half-clip
>> >> > although with full plastic toe clips and straps. They make the folded
>> >> > bike's package much narrower, so fitting everything in the car is much
>> >> > easier.
>> >> >
>> >> > But on my wife's first ride today, she was having trouble flipping the
>> >> > pedal up to get her foot in the toe clip. Based on experience with the
>> >> > Lyotard Model 23s that originated this design, if the back tab were bent
>> >> > downward a bit, she'd have a much easier time.
>> >> >
>> >> > But the Lyotards are steel. These are cast aluminum, and I have no idea
>> >> > what alloy or how much ductility it has.
>> >> >
>> >> > Any thoughts on the possibility of successfully bending that back tab
>> >> > down, maybe 30 degrees?
>> >> >
>> >> That is not a smart idea, bending thick casted aluminum. Why can't you remove your beloved Lyotard pedals?
>> >
>> >Hasn't Frank made it clear that he prefers freewheel 5 speed bikes with one inch thick chains to avoid the necessity of lifting a wrench? He is a mechanical engineer and complaining about how difficult it is to fold a BROMPTON? That should certainly give you a clue as to why he won't simply remove the pedals - - why that might wear out the pedal threads.
>> O.K. we got that.... Frank likes 5 speed and Tommy likes Garmin. The
>> difference seems to be that while Frank can operate his 5 speed, Tommy
>> Boy, (the electronic genus) can't operate his Garmin.
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John B.
>
>I'm pretty sure Frank has said his tandem is a 9 speed cassette. Triple crank. And Frank's other single bikes I don't think are 5 speed freewheel either. My memory could be wrong. But Frank's anti modern technology does not go back to the 1970s or 1960s bike tech. Downtube and barend shifters were widely used with 6 and 7 speed freewheels and cassettes too.

Well, I was simply repeating what Tommy wrote (:-)
After all we all know that Tommy Boy speaks nothing but the truth, the
whole truth and nothing but the truth....... don't we?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:56:09 PM UTC-4, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 6:11:43 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >
> > O.K. we got that.... Frank likes 5 speed and Tommy likes Garmin. The
> > difference seems to be that while Frank can operate his 5 speed, Tommy
> > Boy, (the electronic genus) can't operate his Garmin.

True.

> I'm pretty sure Frank has said his tandem is a 9 speed cassette. Triple crank.

The tandem has a six speed freewheel on a Phil hub. Triple TA cranks.

> And Frank's other single bikes I don't think are 5 speed freewheel either.

Two bikes have 5 speeds in the rear. One has 9. One has 7. One has three, internal, courtesy of
Sturmey Archer. One more, in sort of deep storage, has... I forget. Maybe 5?

- Frank Krygowski