I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.

I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.

Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
Deacon mark

On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
>
> I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
>
> Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
> Deacon mark
>
Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
is superior - but you probably use them already.

They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
> >
> > I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
> >
> > Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
> > Deacon mark
> >
> Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
> is superior - but you probably use them already.
>
> They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
> but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
> in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
> with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
> whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)
>

I hated DoubleTap on my rental bike in Spain. Never have a problem switching between Campagnolo and Shimano. YMMV.

Lou

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:21:50 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > > I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
> > >
> > > I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
> > >
> > > Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
> > > Deacon mark
> > >
> > Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
> > is superior - but you probably use them already.
> >
> > They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
> > but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
> > in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
> > with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
> > whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)
> >
> I hated DoubleTap on my rental bike in Spain. Never have a problem switching between Campagnolo and Shimano. YMMV.

The SRAM electronic shifting seems to be extremely popular in the pro peloton. All of the electronic shifting only shifts one gear at a time ( I think that if you hold the Di2 down it will shift multiple times one gear at a time so you have to count gears.) I always had trouble pushing the wrong lever on Shimano and am totally satisfied with Campy manual.

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:30:19 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:21:50 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > > > I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
> > > >
> > > > I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
> > > >
> > > > Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
> > > > Deacon mark
> > > >
> > > Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
> > > is superior - but you probably use them already.
> > >
> > > They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
> > > but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
> > > in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
> > > with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
> > > whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)
> > >
> > I hated DoubleTap on my rental bike in Spain. Never have a problem switching between Campagnolo and Shimano. YMMV.
> The SRAM electronic shifting seems to be extremely popular in the pro peloton. All of the electronic shifting only shifts one gear at a time ( I think that if you hold the Di2 down it will shift multiple times one gear at a time so you have to count gears.) I always had trouble pushing the wrong lever on Shimano and am totally satisfied with Campy manual.
I never have considered Campy but from what they tell me it is actually repairable like Shimano is not. My concern is that I would need an entire new set of tools that could get costly. Not a lot campy around here but Velomine in Springfield does a lot of Campy. My guess is Andrew probably has plenty too.
Deacon Mark

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 12:51:33 PM UTC-7, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:30:19 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:21:50 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > > > > I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
> > > > > Deacon mark
> > > > >
> > > > Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
> > > > is superior - but you probably use them already.
> > > >
> > > > They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
> > > > but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
> > > > in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
> > > > with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
> > > > whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)
> > > >
> > > I hated DoubleTap on my rental bike in Spain. Never have a problem switching between Campagnolo and Shimano. YMMV.
> > The SRAM electronic shifting seems to be extremely popular in the pro peloton. All of the electronic shifting only shifts one gear at a time ( I think that if you hold the Di2 down it will shift multiple times one gear at a time so you have to count gears.) I always had trouble pushing the wrong lever on Shimano and am totally satisfied with Campy manual.
> I never have considered Campy but from what they tell me it is actually repairable like Shimano is not. My concern is that I would need an entire new set of tools that could get costly. Not a lot campy around here but Velomine in Springfield does a lot of Campy. My guess is Andrew probably has plenty too.
> Deacon Mark
Although, they say that Vampy is repairable, my experience is that by the time it may require repairs you have already updated. The 11 speed short arm on the rear derailleur is a major improvement and the 12 speed rear derailleur cage is a major improvement.

On 7/26/2022 2:51 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:30:19 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:21:50 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>> I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
>>>>> Deacon mark
>>>>>
>>>> Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
>>>> is superior - but you probably use them already.
>>>>
>>>> They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
>>>> but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
>>>> in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
>>>> with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
>>>> whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)
>>>>
>>> I hated DoubleTap on my rental bike in Spain. Never have a problem switching between Campagnolo and Shimano. YMMV.
>> The SRAM electronic shifting seems to be extremely popular in the pro peloton. All of the electronic shifting only shifts one gear at a time ( I think that if you hold the Di2 down it will shift multiple times one gear at a time so you have to count gears.) I always had trouble pushing the wrong lever on Shimano and am totally satisfied with Campy manual.
> I never have considered Campy but from what they tell me it is actually repairable like Shimano is not. My concern is that I would need an entire new set of tools that could get costly. Not a lot campy around here but Velomine in Springfield does a lot of Campy. My guess is Andrew probably has plenty too.
> Deacon Mark
>

The thing you'd need is a Campagnolo cassette lockring tool
which is the same as a Shimano UG type (universal nowadays)
freewheel remover. You discussed buying one of those
recently anyway.

The original Ergos (8sp) through the 2006 Ten series are
excellent- simple rebuild with new spring set as regular
service returns them to like new. All after are shift unit
bodies which may be replaced but not repaired (move brake
blade, clamp and rubber cover to new body).

Ride a Campagnolo equipped bicycle; you may like it - many
riders do.

p.s. Classic rebuildable Ergo levers do not use any special
tools for rebuild.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 7/26/2022 2:51 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:30:19 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:21:50 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >>>>> I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
> >>>>> Deacon mark
> >>>>>
> >>>> Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
> >>>> is superior - but you probably use them already.
> >>>>
> >>>> They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
> >>>> but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
> >>>> in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
> >>>> with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
> >>>> whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)
> >>>>
> >>> I hated DoubleTap on my rental bike in Spain. Never have a problem switching between Campagnolo and Shimano. YMMV.
> >> The SRAM electronic shifting seems to be extremely popular in the pro peloton. All of the electronic shifting only shifts one gear at a time ( I think that if you hold the Di2 down it will shift multiple times one gear at a time so you have to count gears.) I always had trouble pushing the wrong lever on Shimano and am totally satisfied with Campy manual.
> > I never have considered Campy but from what they tell me it is actually repairable like Shimano is not. My concern is that I would need an entire new set of tools that could get costly. Not a lot campy around here but Velomine in Springfield does a lot of Campy. My guess is Andrew probably has plenty too.
> > Deacon Mark
> >
> The thing you'd need is a Campagnolo cassette lockring tool
> which is the same as a Shimano UG type (universal nowadays)
> freewheel remover. You discussed buying one of those
> recently anyway.
>
> The original Ergos (8sp) through the 2006 Ten series are
> excellent- simple rebuild with new spring set as regular
> service returns them to like new. All after are shift unit
> bodies which may be replaced but not repaired (move brake
> blade, clamp and rubber cover to new body).
>
> Ride a Campagnolo equipped bicycle; you may like it - many
> riders do.
>
> p.s. Classic rebuildable Ergo levers do not use any special
> tools for rebuild.

I did this on a 10 speed that was supposedly a Record. Since it wasn't marked on the faceplate I don't know that it actually was a Record but it did return the shifting to "like new". I was able to make the tools to remove the shift lever properly without damage but I don't suppose a lot of people would understand the problems with hammering the axle out without damaging the carbon lever. The 10 speed carbon levers had hideously poor finish. One wrong move and the entire finish could fall off.

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:51:33 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:30:19 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:21:50 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > > > > I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
> > > > > Deacon mark
> > > > >
> > > > Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
> > > > is superior - but you probably use them already.
> > > >
> > > > They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
> > > > but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
> > > > in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
> > > > with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
> > > > whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)
> > > >
> > > I hated DoubleTap on my rental bike in Spain. Never have a problem switching between Campagnolo and Shimano. YMMV.
> > The SRAM electronic shifting seems to be extremely popular in the pro peloton. All of the electronic shifting only shifts one gear at a time ( I think that if you hold the Di2 down it will shift multiple times one gear at a time so you have to count gears.) I always had trouble pushing the wrong lever on Shimano and am totally satisfied with Campy manual.
> I never have considered Campy but from what they tell me it is actually repairable like Shimano is not. My concern is that I would need an entire new set of tools that could get costly. Not a lot campy around here but Velomine in Springfield does a lot of Campy. My guess is Andrew probably has plenty too.
> Deacon Mark

Nor Sram, Campy or Shimano need expensive special tools. Ride whatever you like or fancy. Story: colleague of mine is a Sram fan, that wireless stuff, and he bought a fancy Sram Etap equiped Canyon roadbike. He never could adjust his FD in such a way that it did not drop the chain occasionally. Bike went back to the factory and when he got it back it had still the issue. At the end he got a refund because the issue could not be solved satisfactory. Bought a Specialized Venge with Sram Etap instead and had no problems. With some frame geometry adjusting the FD is very finicky.

Lou

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 3:21:32 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:51:33 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:30:19 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:21:50 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > > > > > I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
> > > > > > Deacon mark
> > > > > >
> > > > > Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
> > > > > is superior - but you probably use them already.
> > > > >
> > > > > They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
> > > > > but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
> > > > > in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
> > > > > with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
> > > > > whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)
> > > > >
> > > > I hated DoubleTap on my rental bike in Spain. Never have a problem switching between Campagnolo and Shimano. YMMV.
> > > The SRAM electronic shifting seems to be extremely popular in the pro peloton. All of the electronic shifting only shifts one gear at a time ( I think that if you hold the Di2 down it will shift multiple times one gear at a time so you have to count gears.) I always had trouble pushing the wrong lever on Shimano and am totally satisfied with Campy manual.
> > I never have considered Campy but from what they tell me it is actually repairable like Shimano is not. My concern is that I would need an entire new set of tools that could get costly. Not a lot campy around here but Velomine in Springfield does a lot of Campy. My guess is Andrew probably has plenty too.
> > Deacon Mark
> Nor Sram, Campy or Shimano need expensive special tools. Ride whatever you like or fancy. Story: colleague of mine is a Sram fan, that wireless stuff, and he bought a fancy Sram Etap equiped Canyon roadbike. He never could adjust his FD in such a way that it did not drop the chain occasionally. Bike went back to the factory and when he got it back it had still the issue. At the end he got a refund because the issue could not be solved satisfactory. Bought a Specialized Venge with Sram Etap instead and had no problems. With some frame geometry adjusting the FD is very finicky.

Campy makes a special plastic guide for adjusting the spacing and alignment of the front derailleur and since I've been using it, I haven't dropped a chain.

On 7/26/2022 5:21 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:51:33 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:30:19 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:21:50 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>> I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
>>>>>> Deacon mark
>>>>>>
>>>>> Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
>>>>> is superior - but you probably use them already.
>>>>>
>>>>> They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
>>>>> but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
>>>>> in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
>>>>> with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
>>>>> whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)
>>>>>
>>>> I hated DoubleTap on my rental bike in Spain. Never have a problem switching between Campagnolo and Shimano. YMMV.
>>> The SRAM electronic shifting seems to be extremely popular in the pro peloton. All of the electronic shifting only shifts one gear at a time ( I think that if you hold the Di2 down it will shift multiple times one gear at a time so you have to count gears.) I always had trouble pushing the wrong lever on Shimano and am totally satisfied with Campy manual.
>> I never have considered Campy but from what they tell me it is actually repairable like Shimano is not. My concern is that I would need an entire new set of tools that could get costly. Not a lot campy around here but Velomine in Springfield does a lot of Campy. My guess is Andrew probably has plenty too.
>> Deacon Mark
>
> Nor Sram, Campy or Shimano need expensive special tools. Ride whatever you like or fancy. Story: colleague of mine is a Sram fan, that wireless stuff, and he bought a fancy Sram Etap equiped Canyon roadbike. He never could adjust his FD in such a way that it did not drop the chain occasionally. Bike went back to the factory and when he got it back it had still the issue. At the end he got a refund because the issue could not be solved satisfactory. Bought a Specialized Venge with Sram Etap instead and had no problems. With some frame geometry adjusting the FD is very finicky.
>
> Lou
>

We once used chain stoppers only on tandems with triples.
We now use them more on compact race bikes than tandems. If
you don't mind looking at it, they are amazingly effective.

https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/21/2019/03/1265024285971-gtjgbb9zyh0v-9df7343.jpg

There are several styles as not all fit all bicycles.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 3:56:01 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 7/26/2022 5:21 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:51:33 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:30:19 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:21:50 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>> On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >>>>>> I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
> >>>>>> Deacon mark
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
> >>>>> is superior - but you probably use them already.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
> >>>>> but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
> >>>>> in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
> >>>>> with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
> >>>>> whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)
> >>>>>
> >>>> I hated DoubleTap on my rental bike in Spain. Never have a problem switching between Campagnolo and Shimano. YMMV.
> >>> The SRAM electronic shifting seems to be extremely popular in the pro peloton. All of the electronic shifting only shifts one gear at a time ( I think that if you hold the Di2 down it will shift multiple times one gear at a time so you have to count gears.) I always had trouble pushing the wrong lever on Shimano and am totally satisfied with Campy manual.
> >> I never have considered Campy but from what they tell me it is actually repairable like Shimano is not. My concern is that I would need an entire new set of tools that could get costly. Not a lot campy around here but Velomine in Springfield does a lot of Campy. My guess is Andrew probably has plenty too.
> >> Deacon Mark
> >
> > Nor Sram, Campy or Shimano need expensive special tools. Ride whatever you like or fancy. Story: colleague of mine is a Sram fan, that wireless stuff, and he bought a fancy Sram Etap equiped Canyon roadbike. He never could adjust his FD in such a way that it did not drop the chain occasionally. Bike went back to the factory and when he got it back it had still the issue. At the end he got a refund because the issue could not be solved satisfactory. Bought a Specialized Venge with Sram Etap instead and had no problems. With some frame geometry adjusting the FD is very finicky.
> >
> > Lou
> >
> We once used chain stoppers only on tandems with triples.
> We now use them more on compact race bikes than tandems. If
> you don't mind looking at it, they are amazingly effective.
>
> https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/21/2019/03/1265024285971-gtjgbb9zyh0v-9df7343.jpg
>
> There are several styles as not all fit all bicycles.

I use these and they usually have a size that works well for all down tubes.. https://www.ebay.com/itm/362586365512?epid=1303548796&hash=item546bd4de48:g:jdUAAOSwccdcjFVu

On 7/26/2022 6:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 3:56:01 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 7/26/2022 5:21 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:51:33 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:30:19 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:21:50 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>>>> I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
>>>>>>>> Deacon mark
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
>>>>>>> is superior - but you probably use them already.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
>>>>>>> but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
>>>>>>> in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
>>>>>>> with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
>>>>>>> whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hated DoubleTap on my rental bike in Spain. Never have a problem switching between Campagnolo and Shimano. YMMV.
>>>>> The SRAM electronic shifting seems to be extremely popular in the pro peloton. All of the electronic shifting only shifts one gear at a time ( I think that if you hold the Di2 down it will shift multiple times one gear at a time so you have to count gears.) I always had trouble pushing the wrong lever on Shimano and am totally satisfied with Campy manual.
>>>> I never have considered Campy but from what they tell me it is actually repairable like Shimano is not. My concern is that I would need an entire new set of tools that could get costly. Not a lot campy around here but Velomine in Springfield does a lot of Campy. My guess is Andrew probably has plenty too.
>>>> Deacon Mark
>>>
>>> Nor Sram, Campy or Shimano need expensive special tools. Ride whatever you like or fancy. Story: colleague of mine is a Sram fan, that wireless stuff, and he bought a fancy Sram Etap equiped Canyon roadbike. He never could adjust his FD in such a way that it did not drop the chain occasionally. Bike went back to the factory and when he got it back it had still the issue. At the end he got a refund because the issue could not be solved satisfactory. Bought a Specialized Venge with Sram Etap instead and had no problems. With some frame geometry adjusting the FD is very finicky.
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>> We once used chain stoppers only on tandems with triples.
>> We now use them more on compact race bikes than tandems. If
>> you don't mind looking at it, they are amazingly effective.
>>
>> https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/21/2019/03/1265024285971-gtjgbb9zyh0v-9df7343.jpg
>>
>> There are several styles as not all fit all bicycles.
>
> I use these and they usually have a size that works well for all down tubes. https://www.ebay.com/itm/362586365512?epid=1303548796&hash=item546bd4de48:g:jdUAAOSwccdcjFVu
>

Seat tubes, not down tubes.
We like those too and JumpStop from Texas.

Many new frames lack clearance or are oval/aero/tapered in
that area. Hence the FD mount styles

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 11:12:00 AM UTC-5, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
>
> I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
>
> Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
> Deacon mark

I agree with Lou on hating SRAM shifting. I tried it on a day ride 15+ years ago. No thanks. I have Shimano and Campagnolo manual shifting bikes. Never a problem interchanging between bikes. But I'd advise some kind of test ride before choosing a new system.

My touring bike has Shimano STI shifters, older mountain bike rear derailleur, TA chainrings, and SRAM cassette. Perfect shifting. Not sure what chain is on it. Chains are all interchangeable across brands. Just have to keep the size, cog number, correct for chains. As for mechanical ability, I suspect if you work on your Shimano bikes, you will be able to work on SRAM or Campagnolo bikes equally well.

Or as Tommy has repeatedly shown, if you are incompetent on one system, you will be incompetent on all systems. Its the mechanic's ability, not the engine or bike being worked on.

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 5:01:34 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 7/26/2022 6:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 3:56:01 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 7/26/2022 5:21 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:51:33 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:30:19 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:21:50 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
> >>>>>>>> Deacon mark
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
> >>>>>>> is superior - but you probably use them already.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
> >>>>>>> but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
> >>>>>>> in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
> >>>>>>> with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
> >>>>>>> whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I hated DoubleTap on my rental bike in Spain. Never have a problem switching between Campagnolo and Shimano. YMMV.
> >>>>> The SRAM electronic shifting seems to be extremely popular in the pro peloton. All of the electronic shifting only shifts one gear at a time ( I think that if you hold the Di2 down it will shift multiple times one gear at a time so you have to count gears.) I always had trouble pushing the wrong lever on Shimano and am totally satisfied with Campy manual.
> >>>> I never have considered Campy but from what they tell me it is actually repairable like Shimano is not. My concern is that I would need an entire new set of tools that could get costly. Not a lot campy around here but Velomine in Springfield does a lot of Campy. My guess is Andrew probably has plenty too.
> >>>> Deacon Mark
> >>>
> >>> Nor Sram, Campy or Shimano need expensive special tools. Ride whatever you like or fancy. Story: colleague of mine is a Sram fan, that wireless stuff, and he bought a fancy Sram Etap equiped Canyon roadbike. He never could adjust his FD in such a way that it did not drop the chain occasionally.. Bike went back to the factory and when he got it back it had still the issue. At the end he got a refund because the issue could not be solved satisfactory. Bought a Specialized Venge with Sram Etap instead and had no problems. With some frame geometry adjusting the FD is very finicky.
> >>>
> >>> Lou
> >>>
> >> We once used chain stoppers only on tandems with triples.
> >> We now use them more on compact race bikes than tandems. If
> >> you don't mind looking at it, they are amazingly effective.
> >>
> >> https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/21/2019/03/1265024285971-gtjgbb9zyh0v-9df7343.jpg
> >>
> >> There are several styles as not all fit all bicycles.
> >
> > I use these and they usually have a size that works well for all down tubes. https://www.ebay.com/itm/362586365512?epid=1303548796&hash=item546bd4de48:g:jdUAAOSwccdcjFVu
> >
> Seat tubes, not down tubes.
> We like those too and JumpStop from Texas.
>
> Many new frames lack clearance or are oval/aero/tapered in
> that area. Hence the FD mount styles

Correct, but i haven't had a dropped chain since using these.

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 12:56:01 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> On 7/26/2022 5:21 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:51:33 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:30:19 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:21:50 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>> On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> >>>>>> I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
> >>>>>> Deacon mark
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
> >>>>> is superior - but you probably use them already.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
> >>>>> but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
> >>>>> in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
> >>>>> with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
> >>>>> whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)
> >>>>>
> >>>> I hated DoubleTap on my rental bike in Spain. Never have a problem switching between Campagnolo and Shimano. YMMV.
> >>> The SRAM electronic shifting seems to be extremely popular in the pro peloton. All of the electronic shifting only shifts one gear at a time ( I think that if you hold the Di2 down it will shift multiple times one gear at a time so you have to count gears.) I always had trouble pushing the wrong lever on Shimano and am totally satisfied with Campy manual.
> >> I never have considered Campy but from what they tell me it is actually repairable like Shimano is not. My concern is that I would need an entire new set of tools that could get costly. Not a lot campy around here but Velomine in Springfield does a lot of Campy. My guess is Andrew probably has plenty too.
> >> Deacon Mark
> >
> > Nor Sram, Campy or Shimano need expensive special tools. Ride whatever you like or fancy. Story: colleague of mine is a Sram fan, that wireless stuff, and he bought a fancy Sram Etap equiped Canyon roadbike. He never could adjust his FD in such a way that it did not drop the chain occasionally. Bike went back to the factory and when he got it back it had still the issue. At the end he got a refund because the issue could not be solved satisfactory. Bought a Specialized Venge with Sram Etap instead and had no problems. With some frame geometry adjusting the FD is very finicky.
> >
> > Lou
> >
> We once used chain stoppers only on tandems with triples.
> We now use them more on compact race bikes than tandems. If
> you don't mind looking at it, they are amazingly effective.
>
> https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/21/2019/03/1265024285971-gtjgbb9zyh0v-9df7343.jpg
>
> There are several styles as not all fit all bicycles.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I use one (K-edge model) on my climbing bike. Very effective. Never needed one on my Di2 equipped bikes.

Lou

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 9:53:22 AM UTC-5, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 12:56:01 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 7/26/2022 5:21 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:51:33 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 2:30:19 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:21:50 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 7:16:38 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>> On 7/26/2022 11:11 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> > >>>>>> I am keeping it cycling. Here is my question. I ride 6800 Shimano and have always road shimano. It appears that Ultegra is hard to get now as Lynskey is not offering it on their bikes right now. All of my tools are Shimano and I have most all I need to do the regular stuff. Take off cassettes and chains and the rest is usually wretches that can be had anywhere.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I have avoid Sram and maybe I am just being stupid. It seems that most reviews say that Force is the Ultegra equal. Would you all agree with that? Also does going Sram really change my perspective on the bike? Would I need to adapt to getting use to it or would I get hit the road riding. Mostly the reviews say that get whatever you happen to like or find better, but as far as performance that seem to be equal.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Finally is Sram any harder or easier to work on and repair/replace than Shimano. I would like to try riding Sram but it just is not going to happen. Would I need a number of new tools. Obvious chains are the same but otherwise?
> > >>>>>> Deacon mark
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> Same cassette tool and chain format although SRAM's snaplink
> > >>>>> is superior - but you probably use them already.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> They're different - DoubleTap may have a 'learning curve' -
> > >>>>> but both are quality systems. The key word there is 'system'
> > >>>>> in that you can run SRAM or Shimano but not mixed levers
> > >>>>> with changers. Cassettes and chain and cranksets can be
> > >>>>> whichever you like (within 10 or within 11 or within 12 format)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> I hated DoubleTap on my rental bike in Spain. Never have a problem switching between Campagnolo and Shimano. YMMV.
> > >>> The SRAM electronic shifting seems to be extremely popular in the pro peloton. All of the electronic shifting only shifts one gear at a time ( I think that if you hold the Di2 down it will shift multiple times one gear at a time so you have to count gears.) I always had trouble pushing the wrong lever on Shimano and am totally satisfied with Campy manual.
> > >> I never have considered Campy but from what they tell me it is actually repairable like Shimano is not. My concern is that I would need an entire new set of tools that could get costly. Not a lot campy around here but Velomine in Springfield does a lot of Campy. My guess is Andrew probably has plenty too.
> > >> Deacon Mark
> > >
> > > Nor Sram, Campy or Shimano need expensive special tools. Ride whatever you like or fancy. Story: colleague of mine is a Sram fan, that wireless stuff, and he bought a fancy Sram Etap equiped Canyon roadbike. He never could adjust his FD in such a way that it did not drop the chain occasionally.. Bike went back to the factory and when he got it back it had still the issue. At the end he got a refund because the issue could not be solved satisfactory. Bought a Specialized Venge with Sram Etap instead and had no problems. With some frame geometry adjusting the FD is very finicky.
> > >
> > > Lou
> > >
> > We once used chain stoppers only on tandems with triples.
> > We now use them more on compact race bikes than tandems. If
> > you don't mind looking at it, they are amazingly effective.
> >
> > https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/21/2019/03/1265024285971-gtjgbb9zyh0v-9df7343.jpg
> >
> > There are several styles as not all fit all bicycles.
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> I use one (K-edge model) on my climbing bike. Very effective. Never needed one on my Di2 equipped bikes.
>
> Lou

Lou, your comment caused me to go out to the shed and look at my Di2 bike. It does not have a chain catcher. But all my mechanical shifting bikes do have chain catchers of one kind or another. N-gear Jump Stop and Dog Fang are the ones I use.