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tech / rec.crafts.metalworking / Help optimizing CNC lathe part

SubjectAuthor
* Help optimizing CNC lathe partDean Verhoeven
+* Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe partJim Wilkins
|`- Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe partDean Verhoeven
+- Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe partCydrome Leader
`* Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe partCydrome Leader
 `* Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe partDean Verhoeven
  +* Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe partCydrome Leader
  |`* Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe partDean Verhoeven
  | +* Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe partJim Wilkins
  | |`* Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe partDean Verhoeven
  | | `- Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe partJim Wilkins
  | +- Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe partGerry
  | `- Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe partCydrome Leader
  `- Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe partJim Wilkins

1
Help optimizing CNC lathe part

<2bc6af9e-6b6a-407b-a1ea-1122cb29bb17n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Help optimizing CNC lathe part
From: dea...@joeveo.com (Dean Verhoeven)
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 by: Dean Verhoeven - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 13:10 UTC

Esteemed RCM'ers: I'm designing a part that'll be produced on a CNC lathe and am looking for "design for manufacturing" help from anyone who has more knowledge of CNC lathes than I (that's about everyone, since I have never worked with a CNC lathe).

Here's the design as it stands:
https://i.imgur.com/vf1ql78.jpg

I'm thinking:

1) pick up knurling tool, knurl
2) RH tool, shape crown, then bevel for next knurl
3) LH tool, finish head enough to cut face groove
4) some tool, cut face groove
5) LH tool, finish profile of part
6) thread tool, thread
7) parting tool, part off

That seems like a lot of tool changes.

- Any ideas on simplifying this? design tweaks to make it easier?
- Are the 0.010" fillets I have drawn reasonable (not too small)?
- suggestions for SS material to specify that will be easy to machine and have a nice finish?

TIA for any thoughts, dean

This is the pivot for an improved lid shutter on my (Joeveo) coffee mugs. Bosses are to be staked to retain the wave spring washer and the shutter. I'll be looking for a shop to make these too--get in touch if you'd like to quote.

Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 12:55:42 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 16:55 UTC

"Dean Verhoeven" wrote in message
news:2bc6af9e-6b6a-407b-a1ea-1122cb29bb17n@googlegroups.com...

This is the pivot for an improved lid shutter on my (Joeveo) coffee mugs.
Bosses are to be staked to retain the wave spring washer and the shutter.
I'll be looking for a shop to make these too--get in touch if you'd like to
quote.

----------------------

Is the heat-regulating material potassium carbonate?

Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part

<a418b348-a1b6-4d30-9f12-60ff07e6fb8bn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part
From: dea...@joeveo.com (Dean Verhoeven)
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 by: Dean Verhoeven - Wed, 15 Jun 2022 19:35 UTC

On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 12:55:50 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Dean Verhoeven" wrote in message
> news:2bc6af9e-6b6a-407b...@googlegroups.com...
> This is the pivot for an improved lid shutter on my (Joeveo) coffee mugs.
> Bosses are to be staked to retain the wave spring washer and the shutter.
> I'll be looking for a shop to make these too--get in touch if you'd like to
> quote.
> ----------------------
>
> Is the heat-regulating material potassium carbonate?

It's a wax with melting point around 140°F.

Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part

<t9b6v5$3b5$1@reader2.panix.com>

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From: prese...@MUNGEpanix.com (Cydrome Leader)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 03:08:21 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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 by: Cydrome Leader - Mon, 27 Jun 2022 03:08 UTC

Dean Verhoeven <dean@joeveo.com> wrote:
> Esteemed RCM'ers: I'm designing a part that'll be produced on a CNC lathe and am looking for "design for manufacturing" help from anyone who has more knowledge of CNC lathes than I (that's about everyone, since I have never worked with a CNC lathe).
>
> Here's the design as it stands:
> https://i.imgur.com/vf1ql78.jpg
>
> I'm thinking:
>
> 1) pick up knurling tool, knurl
> 2) RH tool, shape crown, then bevel for next knurl
> 3) LH tool, finish head enough to cut face groove
> 4) some tool, cut face groove
> 5) LH tool, finish profile of part
> 6) thread tool, thread
> 7) parting tool, part off
>
> That seems like a lot of tool changes.
>
> - Any ideas on simplifying this? design tweaks to make it easier?
> - Are the 0.010" fillets I have drawn reasonable (not too small)?
> - suggestions for SS material to specify that will be easy to machine and have a nice finish?
>
> TIA for any thoughts, dean
>
> This is the pivot for an improved lid shutter on my (Joeveo) coffee mugs. Bosses are to be staked to retain the wave spring washer and the shutter. I'll be looking for a shop to make these too--get in touch if you'd like to quote.

Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part

<t9bib5$548$1@reader2.panix.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=6144&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#6144

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From: prese...@MUNGEpanix.com (Cydrome Leader)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 06:22:29 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <t9bib5$548$1@reader2.panix.com>
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 by: Cydrome Leader - Mon, 27 Jun 2022 06:22 UTC

Dean Verhoeven <dean@joeveo.com> wrote:
> Esteemed RCM'ers: I'm designing a part that'll be produced on a CNC lathe and am looking for "design for manufacturing" help from anyone who has more knowledge of CNC lathes than I (that's about everyone, since I have never worked with a CNC lathe).
>
> Here's the design as it stands:
> https://i.imgur.com/vf1ql78.jpg
>
> I'm thinking:
>
> 1) pick up knurling tool, knurl
> 2) RH tool, shape crown, then bevel for next knurl
> 3) LH tool, finish head enough to cut face groove
> 4) some tool, cut face groove
> 5) LH tool, finish profile of part
> 6) thread tool, thread
> 7) parting tool, part off
>
> That seems like a lot of tool changes.
>
> - Any ideas on simplifying this? design tweaks to make it easier?

Why is a bolt for a coffee cup so complex? Why does a coffee cup even need
all this nonsense?

All that's missing are english threads, or something adorable like M7x0.8,
exotic alloys, ceramic bearings or seals or vent channels, like for high
vacuum equipment. Don't forget to leave room for the thermocouple.

Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part

<14ffcce9-ab0b-4d21-b02c-b0de653eb6d0n@googlegroups.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=6145&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#6145

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Subject: Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part
From: dea...@joeveo.com (Dean Verhoeven)
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 by: Dean Verhoeven - Mon, 27 Jun 2022 12:33 UTC

On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 2:22:33 AM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:
> Dean Verhoeven <de...@joeveo.com> wrote:
> > Esteemed RCM'ers: I'm designing a part that'll be produced on a CNC lathe and am looking for "design for manufacturing" help from anyone who has more knowledge of CNC lathes than I (that's about everyone, since I have never worked with a CNC lathe).
> >
> > Here's the design as it stands:
> > https://i.imgur.com/vf1ql78.jpg
> >
> > I'm thinking:
> >
> > 1) pick up knurling tool, knurl
> > 2) RH tool, shape crown, then bevel for next knurl
> > 3) LH tool, finish head enough to cut face groove
> > 4) some tool, cut face groove
> > 5) LH tool, finish profile of part
> > 6) thread tool, thread
> > 7) parting tool, part off
> >
> > That seems like a lot of tool changes.
> >
> > - Any ideas on simplifying this? design tweaks to make it easier?
> Why is a bolt for a coffee cup so complex? Why does a coffee cup even need
> all this nonsense?
>
> All that's missing are english threads, or something adorable like M7x0.8,
> exotic alloys, ceramic bearings or seals or vent channels, like for high
> vacuum equipment. Don't forget to leave room for the thermocouple.

Our customers, many of them anyway, would like to be able to put their mug in a backpack or purse without fear of coffee leaks. I'd like to accommodate them with a leak-proof, easy-to-open/close/clean lid.

Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part

<t9codp$p0a$1@reader2.panix.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=6146&group=rec.crafts.metalworking#6146

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From: prese...@MUNGEpanix.com (Cydrome Leader)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:12:25 -0000 (UTC)
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References: <2bc6af9e-6b6a-407b-a1ea-1122cb29bb17n@googlegroups.com> <t9bib5$548$1@reader2.panix.com> <14ffcce9-ab0b-4d21-b02c-b0de653eb6d0n@googlegroups.com>
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 by: Cydrome Leader - Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:12 UTC

Dean Verhoeven <dean@joeveo.com> wrote:
> On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 2:22:33 AM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>> Dean Verhoeven <de...@joeveo.com> wrote:
>> > Esteemed RCM'ers: I'm designing a part that'll be produced on a CNC lathe and am looking for "design for manufacturing" help from anyone who has more knowledge of CNC lathes than I (that's about everyone, since I have never worked with a CNC lathe).
>> >
>> > Here's the design as it stands:
>> > https://i.imgur.com/vf1ql78.jpg
>> >
>> > I'm thinking:
>> >
>> > 1) pick up knurling tool, knurl
>> > 2) RH tool, shape crown, then bevel for next knurl
>> > 3) LH tool, finish head enough to cut face groove
>> > 4) some tool, cut face groove
>> > 5) LH tool, finish profile of part
>> > 6) thread tool, thread
>> > 7) parting tool, part off
>> >
>> > That seems like a lot of tool changes.
>> >
>> > - Any ideas on simplifying this? design tweaks to make it easier?
>> Why is a bolt for a coffee cup so complex? Why does a coffee cup even need
>> all this nonsense?
>>
>> All that's missing are english threads, or something adorable like M7x0.8,
>> exotic alloys, ceramic bearings or seals or vent channels, like for high
>> vacuum equipment. Don't forget to leave room for the thermocouple.
>
> Our customers, many of them anyway, would like to be able to put their
> mug in a backpack or purse without fear of coffee leaks. I'd like to
> accommodate them with a leak-proof, easy-to-open/close/clean lid.

How do you clean the crevices for staked on springs on a lid with through
holes to what looks like the wet side?

Maybe I'll invent something called a "thermos" with vacuum insulation and
a leak proof lid, one that even doubles as a cup.

Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part

<t9dkv9$rpa6$1@dont-email.me>

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 21:19:29 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Tue, 28 Jun 2022 01:19 UTC

"Dean Verhoeven" wrote in message
news:14ffcce9-ab0b-4d21-b02c-b0de653eb6d0n@googlegroups.com...

>Our customers, many of them anyway, would like to be able to put their mug
>in a backpack or purse without fear of coffee leaks. I'd like to
>accommodate
>them with a leak-proof, easy-to-open/close/clean lid.

Avex / Coleman / Contigo / China.....
https://www.amazon.com/Contigo-AUTOSEAL-Vaccuum-Insulated-Stainless-Travel/dp/B00HZI5XBG?th=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076JLCN2D/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part

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Subject: Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part
From: dea...@joeveo.com (Dean Verhoeven)
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 by: Dean Verhoeven - Tue, 28 Jun 2022 13:41 UTC

On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 1:12:29 PM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:
> Dean Verhoeven <de...@joeveo.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 2:22:33 AM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:
> >> Dean Verhoeven <de...@joeveo.com> wrote:
> >> > Esteemed RCM'ers: I'm designing a part that'll be produced on a CNC lathe and am looking for "design for manufacturing" help from anyone who has more knowledge of CNC lathes than I (that's about everyone, since I have never worked with a CNC lathe).
> >> >
> >> > Here's the design as it stands:
> >> > https://i.imgur.com/vf1ql78.jpg
> >> >
> >> > I'm thinking:
> >> >
> >> > 1) pick up knurling tool, knurl
> >> > 2) RH tool, shape crown, then bevel for next knurl
> >> > 3) LH tool, finish head enough to cut face groove
> >> > 4) some tool, cut face groove
> >> > 5) LH tool, finish profile of part
> >> > 6) thread tool, thread
> >> > 7) parting tool, part off
> >> >
> >> > That seems like a lot of tool changes.
> >> >
> >> > - Any ideas on simplifying this? design tweaks to make it easier?
> >> Why is a bolt for a coffee cup so complex? Why does a coffee cup even need
> >> all this nonsense?
> >>
> >> All that's missing are english threads, or something adorable like M7x0.8,
> >> exotic alloys, ceramic bearings or seals or vent channels, like for high
> >> vacuum equipment. Don't forget to leave room for the thermocouple.
> >
> > Our customers, many of them anyway, would like to be able to put their
> > mug in a backpack or purse without fear of coffee leaks. I'd like to
> > accommodate them with a leak-proof, easy-to-open/close/clean lid.
> How do you clean the crevices for staked on springs on a lid with through
> holes to what looks like the wet side?
>
> Maybe I'll invent something called a "thermos" with vacuum insulation and
> a leak proof lid, one that even doubles as a cup.

If the clearances are right, you'll be able to put the shutter in the silverware basket of your dishwasher and it will get thoroughly cleaned.

There are lots of vacuum-insulated travel mugs on the market (as Jim notes), but they all aim to keep your coffee as hot as possible. Mine keeps your coffee at a comfortable drinking temperature. You can drink it right away without burning your mouth, and it stays hot for hours.

Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 21:24:17 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Wed, 29 Jun 2022 01:24 UTC

"Dean Verhoeven" wrote in message
news:e05bf438-0058-418d-b316-2507d7c7a58cn@googlegroups.com...

If the clearances are right, you'll be able to put the shutter in the
silverware basket of your dishwasher and it will get thoroughly cleaned.

There are lots of vacuum-insulated travel mugs on the market (as Jim notes),
but they all aim to keep your coffee as hot as possible. Mine keeps your
coffee at a comfortable drinking temperature. You can drink it right away
without burning your mouth, and it stays hot for hours.

-------------------------

As a hands-on experimenter and prototyper I'd like to see a time vs
temperature graph, if you have one. If not I can tell you how to log
temperature, voltage and current data for $35 per optically isolated
channel.

Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part

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Subject: Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part
From: dea...@joeveo.com (Dean Verhoeven)
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 by: Dean Verhoeven - Wed, 29 Jun 2022 02:37 UTC

On Tuesday, June 28, 2022 at 9:24:30 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Dean Verhoeven" wrote in message
> news:e05bf438-0058-418d...@googlegroups.com...
> If the clearances are right, you'll be able to put the shutter in the
> silverware basket of your dishwasher and it will get thoroughly cleaned.
>
> There are lots of vacuum-insulated travel mugs on the market (as Jim notes),
> but they all aim to keep your coffee as hot as possible. Mine keeps your
> coffee at a comfortable drinking temperature. You can drink it right away
> without burning your mouth, and it stays hot for hours.
> -------------------------
>
> As a hands-on experimenter and prototyper I'd like to see a time vs
> temperature graph, if you have one. If not I can tell you how to log
> temperature, voltage and current data for $35 per optically isolated
> channel.

The graph is on joeveo.com on the "Temperfect Tech" page (https://joeveo.com/pages/the-temperfect-mug). Measured with a USB-TC interface from Measurement Computing and a program I wrote under Linux to get the numbers from it. No optical isolation though.

Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part

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From: geraldrm...@yahoo.ca (Gerry)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 23:13:40 -0400
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 by: Gerry - Wed, 29 Jun 2022 03:13 UTC

On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 06:41:02 -0700 (PDT), Dean Verhoeven
<dean@joeveo.com> wrote:

>On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 1:12:29 PM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>> Dean Verhoeven <de...@joeveo.com> wrote:
>> > On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 2:22:33 AM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>> >> Dean Verhoeven <de...@joeveo.com> wrote:
>> >> > Esteemed RCM'ers: I'm designing a part that'll be produced on a CNC lathe and am looking for "design for manufacturing" help from anyone who has more knowledge of CNC lathes than I (that's about everyone, since I have never worked with a CNC lathe).
>> >> >
>> >> > Here's the design as it stands:
>> >> > https://i.imgur.com/vf1ql78.jpg
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm thinking:
>> >> >
>> >> > 1) pick up knurling tool, knurl
>> >> > 2) RH tool, shape crown, then bevel for next knurl
>> >> > 3) LH tool, finish head enough to cut face groove
>> >> > 4) some tool, cut face groove
>> >> > 5) LH tool, finish profile of part
>> >> > 6) thread tool, thread
>> >> > 7) parting tool, part off
>> >> >
>> >> > That seems like a lot of tool changes.
>> >> >
>> >> > - Any ideas on simplifying this? design tweaks to make it easier?
>> >> Why is a bolt for a coffee cup so complex? Why does a coffee cup even need
>> >> all this nonsense?
>> >>
>> >> All that's missing are english threads, or something adorable like M7x0.8,
>> >> exotic alloys, ceramic bearings or seals or vent channels, like for high
>> >> vacuum equipment. Don't forget to leave room for the thermocouple.
>> >
>> > Our customers, many of them anyway, would like to be able to put their
>> > mug in a backpack or purse without fear of coffee leaks. I'd like to
>> > accommodate them with a leak-proof, easy-to-open/close/clean lid.
>> How do you clean the crevices for staked on springs on a lid with through
>> holes to what looks like the wet side?
>>
>> Maybe I'll invent something called a "thermos" with vacuum insulation and
>> a leak proof lid, one that even doubles as a cup.
>
>If the clearances are right, you'll be able to put the shutter in the silverware basket of your dishwasher and it will get thoroughly cleaned.
>
Don't bet your life on that!
>There are lots of vacuum-insulated travel mugs on the market (as Jim notes), but they all aim to keep your coffee as hot as possible. Mine keeps your coffee at a comfortable drinking temperature. You can drink it right away without burning your mouth, and it stays hot for hours.

Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part

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From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 06:56:43 -0400
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 by: Jim Wilkins - Wed, 29 Jun 2022 10:56 UTC

"Dean Verhoeven" wrote in message
news:914a1536-d043-412a-8f49-83e1d315b223n@googlegroups.com...

The graph is on joeveo.com on the "Temperfect Tech" page
(https://joeveo.com/pages/the-temperfect-mug). Measured with a USB-TC
interface from Measurement Computing and a program I wrote under Linux to
get the numbers from it. No optical isolation though.

-------------------

Thanks, that's nice.

I was asked to build a version of Andrea Rossi's E-Cat energy source and
quickly noticed questionable experimental procedure and dubious
explanations, so I limited my participation to advice. For your project I'm
not going to do a free patent search for lid seal mechanisms. I've already
dodged one patent lawsuit.

Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part

<t9idfr$iqa$1@reader2.panix.com>

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From: prese...@MUNGEpanix.com (Cydrome Leader)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Help optimizing CNC lathe part
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 20:42:35 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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 by: Cydrome Leader - Wed, 29 Jun 2022 20:42 UTC

Dean Verhoeven <dean@joeveo.com> wrote:
> On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 1:12:29 PM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>> Dean Verhoeven <de...@joeveo.com> wrote:
>> > On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 2:22:33 AM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>> >> Dean Verhoeven <de...@joeveo.com> wrote:
>> >> > Esteemed RCM'ers: I'm designing a part that'll be produced on a CNC lathe and am looking for "design for manufacturing" help from anyone who has more knowledge of CNC lathes than I (that's about everyone, since I have never worked with a CNC lathe).
>> >> >
>> >> > Here's the design as it stands:
>> >> > https://i.imgur.com/vf1ql78.jpg
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm thinking:
>> >> >
>> >> > 1) pick up knurling tool, knurl
>> >> > 2) RH tool, shape crown, then bevel for next knurl
>> >> > 3) LH tool, finish head enough to cut face groove
>> >> > 4) some tool, cut face groove
>> >> > 5) LH tool, finish profile of part
>> >> > 6) thread tool, thread
>> >> > 7) parting tool, part off
>> >> >
>> >> > That seems like a lot of tool changes.
>> >> >
>> >> > - Any ideas on simplifying this? design tweaks to make it easier?
>> >> Why is a bolt for a coffee cup so complex? Why does a coffee cup even need
>> >> all this nonsense?
>> >>
>> >> All that's missing are english threads, or something adorable like M7x0.8,
>> >> exotic alloys, ceramic bearings or seals or vent channels, like for high
>> >> vacuum equipment. Don't forget to leave room for the thermocouple.
>> >
>> > Our customers, many of them anyway, would like to be able to put their
>> > mug in a backpack or purse without fear of coffee leaks. I'd like to
>> > accommodate them with a leak-proof, easy-to-open/close/clean lid.
>> How do you clean the crevices for staked on springs on a lid with through
>> holes to what looks like the wet side?
>>
>> Maybe I'll invent something called a "thermos" with vacuum insulation and
>> a leak proof lid, one that even doubles as a cup.
>
> If the clearances are right, you'll be able to put the shutter in the
> silverware basket of your dishwasher and it will get thoroughly cleaned.

Yeah, nothing like 900 parts to toss in a dishwasher.

> There are lots of vacuum-insulated travel mugs on the market (as Jim
> notes), but they all aim to keep your coffee as hot as possible. Mine
> keeps your coffee at a comfortable drinking temperature. You can drink
> it right away without burning your mouth, and it stays hot for hours.

Any how does some rediculous rube-goldberg lid help with that? It sounds
like there's some phase change material for temp control, which sounds
stellar until you look at the absurd container, a problem that was solved
long ago.

If you need complexity to seem sophisticated, buy some Zojirushi coffee
thermoses with the pushbutton spout, drill a hole in the body and replace
the vacuum with your wax.

1
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