I guess it's been Long enough to ask. For those with a full accompaniment of metalworking machines and tooling who have picked up, learned, and used a 3D printer, has any significant work load been transferred over from the metalworking machines to the printer?

It is understood that those parts would now be mostly plastic, but I was wonder how much of a factor both the cost of stock material and ease of use would be either way.

I didn't expect a big switch over, but experiences, observations, and opinions would be appreciated.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

"Darren Harris" wrote in message
news:10b2ff85-ae94-4fbf-a7a6-66f59265db41n@googlegroups.com...

I guess it's been Long enough to ask. For those with a full accompaniment of
metalworking machines and tooling who have picked up, learned, and used a 3D
printer, has any significant work load been transferred over from the
metalworking machines to the printer?

It is understood that those parts would now be mostly plastic, but I was
wonder how much of a factor both the cost of stock material and ease of use
would be either way.

I didn't expect a big switch over, but experiences, observations, and
opinions would be appreciated.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

----------------------------

I keep looking at them, but for the mainly tools and machine parts I make
their plastic can't replace metal.

A machine that makes durable rubber parts like seals might be more useful to
me.

On 11/7/2021 8:31 AM, Darren Harris wrote:
> I guess it's been Long enough to ask. For those with a full accompaniment of metalworking machines and tooling who have picked up, learned, and used a 3D printer, has any significant work load been transferred over from the metalworking machines to the printer?
>
> It is understood that those parts would now be mostly plastic, but I was wonder how much of a factor both the cost of stock material and ease of use would be either way.
>
> I didn't expect a big switch over, but experiences, observations, and opinions would be appreciated.
>
> Darren Harris
> Staten Island, New York.
>

My son has 3 (yes 3) 3D printers. Resin Printer, higher resolution
resin printer, and filament printer. He primarily prints gaming
miniatures. (He plays two regular D&D games a week (runs one). Once in
a while he has somebody pay him to run a print, but its not common.
Maybe half dozen times a year. He rather enjoys painting the
miniatures, and he's getting good at it. He's won more than a couple
painting contests. He claims being able to create and print his own
fantasy pieces costs less than buying them. I've paid him (bought
materials and made sure there was plenty left over) to run a few jobs
for me. One was to run a filament print of a 1911 receiver. I didn't
plan to use it. I wanted to test a file before using it to machine a
receiver. I still do not know if the file is good or not. Between
shrinkage and distortion it was not great. I know people actual print
and use receivers, but I'll probably fall back on old school measure and
index methods from a sample piece when I get around to that project.

On another project I had him print some master molds. Basically a mold
box, master (1/2 master), sprue, vents, and alignment registers in a
single print. This allowed me to make silicone molds in multiples for
casting resin parts. This actually worked fairly well, but we ran
through a few iterations, to get it right.

I do not know about cost effective, but it does not seem to be time
effective. All of those prints I had him do for me took a while. It
didn't cost ME much, but he spent some time getting them ready to print
after I the CAD files in some cases.

I have one customer who makes accessories for gaming miniatures. I make
injection molds for him. The cost of a mold is fairly high, but the
cost per part is very low.

In conclusion I think:

1. If you are prototyping it "might" be useful by itself, but going
from one process to another accounting for variations int he process
like shrinkage and distortion it might take away from that.

2. It can be useful as part of another process as in my master molds to
make molds to make parts.

3. To make a single part if you can do it within your allowable
tolerances its cheaper than making a mold to make a part.

4. Its not fast, but if you can walk away and work on something else it
might be ok.

5. Those are not the only types of 3D printing. There is a 3D printer
on the International Space Station they use to print tools they didn't
know they were going to need.

6. Like making a part on the lathe or mill to finish a project on
Saturday, printing a part on the printer may allow you finish your
project instead of waiting until Monday to order the part you need.

Overall I am not convinced I need one, but I am convinced that they can
be useful in the broad scope of things.

Just My Not So Humble Opinion

..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..

--
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Darren Harris <jamesjaddah1755@gmail.com> wrote:

> I guess it's been Long enough to ask. For those with a full
> accompaniment of metalworking machines and tooling who have picked up,
> learned, and used a 3D printer, has any significant work load been
> transferred over from the metalworking machines to the printer?
>
> It is understood that those parts would now be mostly plastic, but I was
> wonder how much of a factor both the cost of stock material and ease of
> use would be either way.
>
> I didn't expect a big switch over, but experiences, observations, and
> opinions would be appreciated.

I agree with most of what Bob La Londe said, but there will be no figurines
printed on my 3D printer!

I'm not a metalworker, I use aluminum occasionally, but I have had a 3D
printer for about one year. Love it!

Yes, it's not metal, it's plastic (many different types of plastic). The
other drawback is that you must print from the ground up. Some say you can
get around that, but I haven't tried. In other words, printing bridges is
difficult because there is nothing to support the extruded plastic. Still,
you can design around that limitation and print most things.

If you love science, a 3D printer is for you. There is a steep learning
curve. Lots of trial and error.

When I need parts to fit, I just design and print those fitting parts of the
part until they are correct. You can't get super precision, given the fact
plastics shrink a tiny bit when cooling. Instead of trying to use the slicer
to compensate for that shrinkage, I just add some to the design here and
there.

I think "3D Fusion" is about the only way to go. It does all of the design
and then sends the file to your slicer. You can find some help on YouTube,
it's popular.

When the file is sent to your slicer program, one settings difference is
"retraction" that depends on whether you have a "Bowden" or a "direct
drive" 3D printer. There is very little instruction about that on the
Internet, but if your printer is direct drive, it requires very little
retraction compared to a Bowden printer.

Apparently... The benefit of a Bowden printer is that the printhead
machinery is light so it can be slung around easily and quickly. The benefit
of direct drive is that you can print better, a wider selection of plastic
filament, at slower speeds.

My old plastic shower knob just broke where it keys onto the valve shaft.
Printed a replacement shower knob. Probably the most useful thing so far. It
also excels at printing washers, spacers, rod spinners (I don't have a
lathe), and lots of other little parts usable for making low stress things.

My print area is only 6" x 6", but that's fine here so far.

Make sure it's easy to return. As I'm sure everybody here knows, the shaft
tolerances that guide the printhead, the rails, must be precise in order for
the printing to be precise. It must be of decent quality.

*Fusion 360
not "3D Fusion"

You must reregister once per year (so I have been at it for over a year), but
that program is free for casual use. They make sure you are not using it as a
professional. Of course I don't know how that applies to anybody else.

On 2021-11-07, Darren Harris <jamesjaddah1755@gmail.com> wrote:

> I guess it's been Long enough to ask. For those with a full accompaniment of metalworking machines and tooling who have picked up, learned, and used a 3D printer, has any significant work load been transferred over from the metalworking machines to the printer?

Company I work for has metal and plastic 3d printers. The plastic one is
used strictly for prototyping and occupies a desk in engineering. The metal
printer has increased the workload of the machine tools since there is
always secondary machining to be done on the parts. Most of the metal that
gets printed is titanium, stainless steel, and some aluminum with internal
passages. Parts that if they were to be mass produced even at low
quantities, would be much less costly to produce as castings and have
the same amount of machining needed.

> It is understood that those parts would now be mostly plastic, but I was wonder how much of a factor both the cost of stock material and ease of use would be either way.

Resin for plastic printers is cheap. The aforementioned metal powders are quite
the opposite to the extreme.

> I didn't expect a big switch over, but experiences, observations, and opinions would be appreciated.

3d printing close tolerances aren't yet achievable in metal or plastic.
Since this technology has been through several decades of evolution and
refinement, since the creation of stereolithography in the 1980's to be
specific, I think is is very unlikely it will be in the the foreseeable
future. Therefore machining is going to continue, for the time being, to
supplement 3d printing, not be marginalized by it.

--
fos@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - https://sdf.org

Darren Harris <jamesjaddah1755@gmail.com> wrote:
> I guess it's been Long enough to ask. For those with a full accompaniment of metalworking machines and tooling who have picked up, learned, and used a 3D printer, has any significant work load been transferred over from the metalworking machines to the printer?
>
> It is understood that those parts would now be mostly plastic, but I was wonder how much of a factor both the cost of stock material and ease of use would be either way.
>
> I didn't expect a big switch over, but experiences, observations, and opinions would be appreciated.
>
> Darren Harris
> Staten Island, New York.

last year I received some 3d printed parts like trim caps for assemblies
made of unistrut. Yeah, not as pretty as the real parts, but included with
the parts was a note from the manufacturer blaming supply chain issues and
even apologizing if the colors of the caps were not black as expected.
Mine were black so maybe times were real tough at the plant with getting
"nuts and bolts" type components to complete orders.

I're sure if I was a real whiner I could probably still request the
correct plastic caps, so in this case, I guess a 3D printer kept the plant
running and orders shipping.

On Sun, 7 Nov 2021 07:31:01 -0800 (PST), Darren Harris
<jamesjaddah1755@gmail.com> wrote:

>I guess it's been Long enough to ask. For those with a full accompaniment of metalworking machines and tooling who have picked up, learned, and used a 3D printer, has any significant work load been transferred over from the metalworking machines to the printer?
>
>It is understood that those parts would now be mostly plastic, but I was wonder how much of a factor both the cost of stock material and ease of use would be either way.
>
>I didn't expect a big switch over, but experiences, observations, and opinions would be appreciated.
>
>Darren Harris
>Staten Island, New York.

I have two filament printers and an (as-yet unused) resin printer and
curing setup. I've almost entirely printed PLA, with a tiny bit of
ABS. PLA filament is cheap.

Found lots of uses for the printers in making fixtures and jigs for
PCBs and prototype setups. Some things I could make on a mill with
DRO and they'd be much prettier but wouldn't work much better and it
would take much more time (iterations are very costly on a manual
mill). Different uses than I expected.

Occasionally small housings for internal use. A solder fume extractor
made from a salvaged fan and Aliexpress filter material- total cost a
few dollars. Needed a special pin spanner wrench that was infinite
lead time so I prototyped it in PLA, tweaked it and made it (once) of
aluminum and steel. Have made spare parts for a few things where the
part got broken or lost. When the part was lost it really helps to be
able to iterate since the first part you come up with may not be
ideal.

You can insert metal threaded inserts, bearings, nuts etc. to make the
material characteristics less limiting (and, make no mistake, PLA FDM
prints are nasty and crude - think 0.5mm tolerance- and weak- and
generally lack electrical specifications). PLA is also limited in
temperature range. You can apparently make lost-whatever castings of
metal. There are YT videos showing the process.

I almost invariably do a CAD model first so the 3D print 'cost' is
mostly just filament (cheap) and (clock, not human) time. The prints
are usually just as good printed with low infill (honeycomb interior,
not solid) so they are much lighter than they look.

I would say though that if you don't speak parametric 3D CAD fluently
then a 3D printer would not be so useful.

--
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

On Monday, November 29, 2021 at 9:58:55 AM UTC-5, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Nov 2021 07:31:01 -0800 (PST), Darren Harris
> <jamesja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I guess it's been Long enough to ask. For those with a full accompaniment of metalworking machines and tooling who have picked up, learned, and used a 3D printer, has any significant work load been transferred over from the metalworking machines to the printer?
> >
> >It is understood that those parts would now be mostly plastic, but I was wonder how much of a factor both the cost of stock material and ease of use would be either way.
> >
> >I didn't expect a big switch over, but experiences, observations, and opinions would be appreciated.
> >
> >Darren Harris
> >Staten Island, New York.
> I have two filament printers and an (as-yet unused) resin printer and
> curing setup. I've almost entirely printed PLA, with a tiny bit of
> ABS. PLA filament is cheap.
>
> Found lots of uses for the printers in making fixtures and jigs for
> PCBs and prototype setups. Some things I could make on a mill with
> DRO and they'd be much prettier but wouldn't work much better and it
> would take much more time (iterations are very costly on a manual
> mill). Different uses than I expected.
>
> Occasionally small housings for internal use. A solder fume extractor
> made from a salvaged fan and Aliexpress filter material- total cost a
> few dollars. Needed a special pin spanner wrench that was infinite
> lead time so I prototyped it in PLA, tweaked it and made it (once) of
> aluminum and steel. Have made spare parts for a few things where the
> part got broken or lost. When the part was lost it really helps to be
> able to iterate since the first part you come up with may not be
> ideal.
>
> You can insert metal threaded inserts, bearings, nuts etc. to make the
> material characteristics less limiting (and, make no mistake, PLA FDM
> prints are nasty and crude - think 0.5mm tolerance- and weak- and
> generally lack electrical specifications). PLA is also limited in
> temperature range. You can apparently make lost-whatever castings of
> metal. There are YT videos showing the process.
>
> I almost invariably do a CAD model first so the 3D print 'cost' is
> mostly just filament (cheap) and (clock, not human) time. The prints
> are usually just as good printed with low infill (honeycomb interior,
> not solid) so they are much lighter than they look.
>
> I would say though that if you don't speak parametric 3D CAD fluently
> then a 3D printer would not be so useful.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Spehro Pefhany

I'm just now seeing and reading your last post and wanted to clarify my reason for asking my question.

There are many small parts I have to make and I'm sure there will be a lot of trial and error either way since these parts/components don't yet exist in the market place.

Metal will be the preferred material in most cases, but I'm hoping that plastic prototypes would hold up long enough to bear out the plausibility of the designs.

I know nothing yet about 3D CAD, but metal stock machined on my lathe and mill will in many cases need to have a great deal of material removed to create the desired parts. Perhaps from 50 to 80 percent, so there would be a lot of waste involved.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

"Darren Harris" wrote in message
news:671aab66-9c21-488b-a906-39c3eb00d0den@googlegroups.com...

I'm just now seeing and reading your last post and wanted to clarify my
reason for asking my question.

There are many small parts I have to make and I'm sure there will be a lot
of trial and error either way since these parts/components don't yet exist
in the market place.

Metal will be the preferred material in most cases, but I'm hoping that
plastic prototypes would hold up long enough to bear out the plausibility of
the designs.

I know nothing yet about 3D CAD, but metal stock machined on my lathe and
mill will in many cases need to have a great deal of material removed to
create the desired parts. Perhaps from 50 to 80 percent, so there would be a
lot of waste involved.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

-------------------------

Welding and brazing are useful additive methods to build up complex metal
shapes from simple stock. They aren't reliably accurate due to shrinkage and
distortion but they can save you a lot of stock removal.

On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 5:59:56 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Darren Harris" wrote in message
> news:671aab66-9c21-488b...@googlegroups.com...
> I'm just now seeing and reading your last post and wanted to clarify my
> reason for asking my question.
>
> There are many small parts I have to make and I'm sure there will be a lot
> of trial and error either way since these parts/components don't yet exist
> in the market place.
>
> Metal will be the preferred material in most cases, but I'm hoping that
> plastic prototypes would hold up long enough to bear out the plausibility of
> the designs.
>
> I know nothing yet about 3D CAD, but metal stock machined on my lathe and
> mill will in many cases need to have a great deal of material removed to
> create the desired parts. Perhaps from 50 to 80 percent, so there would be a
> lot of waste involved.
>
> Darren Harris
> Staten Island, New York.
> -------------------------
>
> Welding and brazing are useful additive methods to build up complex metal
> shapes from simple stock. They aren't reliably accurate due to shrinkage and
> distortion but they can save you a lot of stock removal.

Not for me. My parts require high tolerances.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On 6/7/2022 11:20 AM, Darren Harris wrote:
> On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 5:59:56 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Darren Harris" wrote in message
>> news:671aab66-9c21-488b...@googlegroups.com...
>> I'm just now seeing and reading your last post and wanted to clarify my
>> reason for asking my question.
>>
>> There are many small parts I have to make and I'm sure there will be a lot
>> of trial and error either way since these parts/components don't yet exist
>> in the market place.
>>
>> Metal will be the preferred material in most cases, but I'm hoping that
>> plastic prototypes would hold up long enough to bear out the plausibility of
>> the designs.
>>
>> I know nothing yet about 3D CAD, but metal stock machined on my lathe and
>> mill will in many cases need to have a great deal of material removed to
>> create the desired parts. Perhaps from 50 to 80 percent, so there would be a
>> lot of waste involved.
>>
>> Darren Harris
>> Staten Island, New York.
>> -------------------------
>>
>> Welding and brazing are useful additive methods to build up complex metal
>> shapes from simple stock. They aren't reliably accurate due to shrinkage and
>> distortion but they can save you a lot of stock removal.
>
> Not for me. My parts require high tolerances.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Darren Harris
> Staten Island, New York.

You build it up and then machine it.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 5:12:42 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 6/7/2022 11:20 AM, Darren Harris wrote:
> > On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 5:59:56 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> >> "Darren Harris" wrote in message
> >> news:671aab66-9c21-488b...@googlegroups.com...
> >> I'm just now seeing and reading your last post and wanted to clarify my
> >> reason for asking my question.
> >>
> >> There are many small parts I have to make and I'm sure there will be a lot
> >> of trial and error either way since these parts/components don't yet exist
> >> in the market place.
> >>
> >> Metal will be the preferred material in most cases, but I'm hoping that
> >> plastic prototypes would hold up long enough to bear out the plausibility of
> >> the designs.
> >>
> >> I know nothing yet about 3D CAD, but metal stock machined on my lathe and
> >> mill will in many cases need to have a great deal of material removed to
> >> create the desired parts. Perhaps from 50 to 80 percent, so there would be a
> >> lot of waste involved.
> >>
> >> Darren Harris
> >> Staten Island, New York.
> >> -------------------------
> >>
> >> Welding and brazing are useful additive methods to build up complex metal
> >> shapes from simple stock. They aren't reliably accurate due to shrinkage and
> >> distortion but they can save you a lot of stock removal.
> >
> > Not for me. My parts require high tolerances.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Darren Harris
> > Staten Island, New York.
> You build it up and then machine it.
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com

Well, I don't have welding or brazing equipment, let alone a place to do that kind of work. And the extra tools, jigs, and time for parts with tiny weld surfaces thanks to the high tolerances I need, and therefore not as reliable as single piece alternatives, make 3D printing look more promising. The real question involves material suitability. (Sometimes there is no substitute for a *metal* part).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

"Darren Harris" wrote in message
news:d2e56c84-7948-42ab-8574-8438bade20ecn@googlegroups.com...

Well, I don't have welding or brazing equipment, let alone a place to do
that kind of work. And the extra tools, jigs, and time for parts with tiny
weld surfaces thanks to the high tolerances I need, and therefore not as
reliable as single piece alternatives, make 3D printing look more promising.
The real question involves material suitability. (Sometimes there is no
substitute for a *metal* part).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

------------------------

You know your situation better than we do.

For others, brazing requires only a propane torch and maybe a fire brick.
I've used it to build up worn car starter solenoid contacts, then filed the
lump of added brass to shape. Brass isn't as good as copper for high current
contacts but it lasted 40,000 miles and then I repeated it.

On 6/19/2022 7:59 AM, Darren Harris wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 5:12:42 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> On 6/7/2022 11:20 AM, Darren Harris wrote:
>>> On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 5:59:56 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>> "Darren Harris" wrote in message
>>>> news:671aab66-9c21-488b...@googlegroups.com...
>>>> I'm just now seeing and reading your last post and wanted to clarify my
>>>> reason for asking my question.
>>>>
>>>> There are many small parts I have to make and I'm sure there will be a lot
>>>> of trial and error either way since these parts/components don't yet exist
>>>> in the market place.
>>>>
>>>> Metal will be the preferred material in most cases, but I'm hoping that
>>>> plastic prototypes would hold up long enough to bear out the plausibility of
>>>> the designs.
>>>>
>>>> I know nothing yet about 3D CAD, but metal stock machined on my lathe and
>>>> mill will in many cases need to have a great deal of material removed to
>>>> create the desired parts. Perhaps from 50 to 80 percent, so there would be a
>>>> lot of waste involved.
>>>>
>>>> Darren Harris
>>>> Staten Island, New York.
>>>> -------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Welding and brazing are useful additive methods to build up complex metal
>>>> shapes from simple stock. They aren't reliably accurate due to shrinkage and
>>>> distortion but they can save you a lot of stock removal.
>>>
>>> Not for me. My parts require high tolerances.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Darren Harris
>>> Staten Island, New York.
>> You build it up and then machine it.
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>
> Well, I don't have welding or brazing equipment, let alone a place to do that kind of work. And the extra tools, jigs, and time for parts with tiny weld surfaces thanks to the high tolerances I need, and therefore not as reliable as single piece alternatives, make 3D printing look more promising. The real question involves material suitability. (Sometimes there is no substitute for a *metal* part).
>
> Darren Harris
> Staten Island, New York.

Building up a part by (various means) and then machining it does give
you the option for fine tolerances. That's the whole point. Whether or
not you can do it is neither here nor there. Its is a real everyday
solution used in industry. Casting and then machining is the same
thing. Make a near (or not so near) net shape and then remove everything
that is not your final part.

Think engine blocks. They are cast near net shape and then all critical
dimensions are machined to net shape. You might argue there are a
handful of "special" people who actually machine an engine block from a
lump of generic billet, but I would counter with this. There are other
people who are "special" in their own way who weld up bits and pieces to
make an engine, and then machine all critical dimensions after the fact.

As far as 3D printing. I suggest some things to consider. Sometimes 3D
printed parts are printed to near net shape and machined to finish
dimensions. Sometimes 3D parts are printed, and machined metal parts
are added. Sometimes parts are 3D printed out of metal. Some
plastics/resins can be 3D printed that are "almost as good" as metal
parts or good enough for short term use.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t8njpj$bua$1@gioia.aioe.org...

Think engine blocks. They are cast near net shape and then all critical
dimensions are machined to net shape. You might argue there are a
handful of "special" people who actually machine an engine block from a
lump of generic billet, but I would counter with this. There are other
people who are "special" in their own way who weld up bits and pieces to
make an engine, and then machine all critical dimensions after the fact.

---------------------------

They weld up -big- bits and pieces to fabricate large marine Diesels.
http://www.machineryspaces.com/MAN-B&W-engine.html

https://oldmachinepress.com/2014/08/17/general-motors-electro-motive-16-184-diesel-engine/
"The 16-184’s crankcase was constructed of steel plates welded together to
form a single structure."

"Four 16-338 engines were installed in the Tench- and Tang-class submarines,
and two were installed in the USS Albacore—the Navy’s first “teardrop” hull
submarine, which paved the way for modern sub design."

When I toured the Albacore the retired head of the Portsmouth naval shipyard
told me they were built too lightly for satisfactory rigidity and weren't
reliable enough for military service. The Albacore didn't stay at sea for
long or unaccompanied so they were less of a problem in it, but it had to be
retired after burning through the remaining stock of them.
https://www.ussalbacore.org/

He was there waiting for the film crew that was to take pix for the
self-guided tour.
https://www.ussalbacore.org/self-guided-tour
The awkward angles of the photos reveal how cramped the interior is. You
can't back up far enough to get a good view.

On 6/19/2022 9:44 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 6/19/2022 7:59 AM, Darren Harris wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 5:12:42 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> On 6/7/2022 11:20 AM, Darren Harris wrote:
>>>> On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 5:59:56 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>>> "Darren Harris" wrote in message
>>>>> news:671aab66-9c21-488b...@googlegroups.com...
>>>>> I'm just now seeing and reading your last post and wanted to
>>>>> clarify my
>>>>> reason for asking my question.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are many small parts I have to make and I'm sure there will
>>>>> be a lot
>>>>> of trial and error either way since these parts/components don't
>>>>> yet exist
>>>>> in the market place.
>>>>>
>>>>> Metal will be the preferred material in most cases, but I'm hoping
>>>>> that
>>>>> plastic prototypes would hold up long enough to bear out the
>>>>> plausibility of
>>>>> the designs.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know nothing yet about 3D CAD, but metal stock machined on my
>>>>> lathe and
>>>>> mill will in many cases need to have a great deal of material
>>>>> removed to
>>>>> create the desired parts. Perhaps from 50 to 80 percent, so there
>>>>> would be a
>>>>> lot of waste involved.
>>>>>
>>>>> Darren Harris
>>>>> Staten Island, New York.
>>>>> -------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Welding and brazing are useful additive methods to build up complex
>>>>> metal
>>>>> shapes from simple stock. They aren't reliably accurate due to
>>>>> shrinkage and
>>>>> distortion but they can save you a lot of stock removal.
>>>>
>>>> Not for me. My parts require high tolerances.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Darren Harris
>>>> Staten Island, New York.
>>> You build it up and then machine it.
>>> --
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>>
>> Well, I don't have welding or brazing equipment, let alone a place to
>> do that kind of work. And the extra tools, jigs, and time for parts
>> with tiny weld surfaces thanks to the high tolerances I need, and
>> therefore not as reliable as single piece alternatives, make 3D
>> printing look more promising. The real question involves material
>> suitability. (Sometimes there is no substitute for a *metal* part).
>>
>> Darren Harris
>> Staten Island, New York.
>
>
> Building up a part by (various means) and then machining it does give
> you the option for fine tolerances.  That's the whole point.  Whether or
> not you can do it is neither here nor there.  Its is a real everyday
> solution used in industry.  Casting and then machining is the same
> thing. Make a near (or not so near) net shape and then remove everything
> that is not your final part.
>
> Think engine blocks.  They are cast near net shape and then all critical
> dimensions are machined to net shape.  You might argue there are a
> handful of "special" people who actually machine an engine block from a
> lump of generic billet, but I would counter with this.  There are other
> people who are "special" in their own way who weld up bits and pieces to
> make an engine, and then machine all critical dimensions after the fact.
>
> As far as 3D printing.  I suggest some things to consider.  Sometimes 3D
> printed parts are printed to near net shape and machined to finish
> dimensions.  Sometimes 3D parts are printed, and machined metal parts
> are added.  Sometimes parts are 3D printed out of metal.  Some
> plastics/resins can be 3D printed that are "almost as good" as metal
> parts or good enough for short term use.
>

More recently some home shop guys have been building welded up flat head
engines. I didn't say they were good or bad. Just that it has been done.