Probably something to do with Russian porn sites and Baptists:

https://apnews.com/article/va-state-wire-technology-business-1f06c091c492c1630471d29a9cf6529d

Another American farce operation...

On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 8:05:29 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> Probably something to do with Russian porn sites and Baptists:
>
> https://apnews.com/article/va-state-wire-technology-business-1f06c091c492c1630471d29a9cf6529d
>
> Another American farce operation...

Hacker said they lost access to some server with the crypto ransom. Perhaps they don't want to pay their "Russian Income Tax".

On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 11:22:28 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 8:05:29 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > Probably something to do with Russian porn sites and Baptists:
> >
> > https://apnews.com/article/va-state-wire-technology-business-1f06c091c492c1630471d29a9cf6529d
> >
> > Another American farce operation...
> Hacker said they lost access to some server with the crypto ransom. Perhaps they don't want to pay their "Russian Income Tax".

There was plenty of gasoline in the distribution centers to coast through a crummy five day shutdown. But the hysterical public went on a panic gas buying spree trying to draw a 30 day supply in a single day, which of course depleted and closed every gas station in sight. Of course the politicians are making it out like the "innocent" public has been victimized by the big bad corporation. One can only guess what would happen in a real emergency, like say, Russia detonating a 100Mt cobalt bomb in NY harbor with that AI controlled Poseidon torpedo, which is predicted to poison the entire east coast of U.S.

On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 2:47:08 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 11:22:28 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 8:05:29 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > Probably something to do with Russian porn sites and Baptists:
> > >
> > > https://apnews.com/article/va-state-wire-technology-business-1f06c091c492c1630471d29a9cf6529d
> > >
> > > Another American farce operation...
> > Hacker said they lost access to some server with the crypto ransom. Perhaps they don't want to pay their "Russian Income Tax".
> There was plenty of gasoline in the distribution centers to coast through a crummy five day shutdown. But the hysterical public went on a panic gas buying spree trying to draw a 30 day supply in a single day, which of course depleted and closed every gas station in sight. Of course the politicians are making it out like the "innocent" public has been victimized by the big bad corporation. One can only guess what would happen in a real emergency, like say, Russia detonating a 100Mt cobalt bomb in NY harbor with that AI controlled Poseidon torpedo, which is predicted to poison the entire east coast of U.S.

Much of your post is a bit hysterical, more so than the public. People can't hoard 30 days worth of gas since they can only fill their tanks which is much less than a 30 day supply for most. Then once their tanks are filled, they don't use gas any faster than they did before gas was in short supply. So the shortage was real. Their is still uncertainty since the pipeline take time to come fully up to speed and then to distribute. Expect to see shortages on the East coast for a few more days.

Now that prices will be heading downward again, figure people won't be so eager to keep their tanks full.

I wish I had gone out a bit during this so I could look at some gas lines. I've forgotten what that feels like. Hopefully Tesla is doing a better job of securing their power supply.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

In article <bfecd660-6655-4c8e-a862-91e4b0c8d2ffn@googlegroups.com>,
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com says...
>
> There was plenty of gasoline in the distribution centers to coast through a crummy five day shutdown. But the hysterical public went on a panic gas buying spree trying to draw a 30 day supply in a single day, which of course depleted and closed every gas station in sight. Of course the politicians are making it out like the
"innocent" public has been victimized by the big bad corporation. One can only guess what would happen in a real emergency, like say, Russia detonating a 100Mt cobalt bomb in NY harbor with that AI controlled Poseidon torpedo, which is predicted to poison the entire east coast of U.S.
>
>

Chances are that if the shutdown was not mentioned the general public
would never have noticed it.

The press scared the public and caused the panic buying.

On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 3:37:23 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <bfecd660-6655-4c8e...@googlegroups.com>,
> bloggs.fred...@gmail.com says...
> >
> > There was plenty of gasoline in the distribution centers to coast through a crummy five day shutdown. But the hysterical public went on a panic gas buying spree trying to draw a 30 day supply in a single day, which of course depleted and closed every gas station in sight. Of course the politicians are making it out like the
> "innocent" public has been victimized by the big bad corporation. One can only guess what would happen in a real emergency, like say, Russia detonating a 100Mt cobalt bomb in NY harbor with that AI controlled Poseidon torpedo, which is predicted to poison the entire east coast of U.S.
> >
> >
> Chances are that if the shutdown was not mentioned the general public
> would never have noticed it.
>
> The press scared the public and caused the panic buying.

EXACTLY

On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 3:22:50 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 2:47:08 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 11:22:28 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 8:05:29 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > Probably something to do with Russian porn sites and Baptists:
> > > >
> > > > https://apnews.com/article/va-state-wire-technology-business-1f06c091c492c1630471d29a9cf6529d
> > > >
> > > > Another American farce operation...
> > > Hacker said they lost access to some server with the crypto ransom. Perhaps they don't want to pay their "Russian Income Tax".
> > There was plenty of gasoline in the distribution centers to coast through a crummy five day shutdown. But the hysterical public went on a panic gas buying spree trying to draw a 30 day supply in a single day, which of course depleted and closed every gas station in sight. Of course the politicians are making it out like the "innocent" public has been victimized by the big bad corporation. One can only guess what would happen in a real emergency, like say, Russia detonating a 100Mt cobalt bomb in NY harbor with that AI controlled Poseidon torpedo, which is predicted to poison the entire east coast of U.S.
> Much of your post is a bit hysterical, more so than the public. People can't hoard 30 days worth of gas since they can only fill their tanks which is much less than a 30 day supply for most. Then once their tanks are filled, they don't use gas any faster than they did before gas was in short supply. So the shortage was real. Their is still uncertainty since the pipeline take time to come fully up to speed and then to distribute. Expect to see shortages on the East coast for a few more days.
>
> Now that prices will be heading downward again, figure people won't be so eager to keep their tanks full.
>
> I wish I had gone out a bit during this so I could look at some gas lines.. I've forgotten what that feels like. Hopefully Tesla is doing a better job of securing their power supply.

You're missing the point. The consumer demand which would ordinarily be uniformly distributed over a 30 day period was condensed into a single day. There were some instances of hoarding, people filling big jerry cans and so forth, some dim enough to try use those flimsy plastic grocery bags, but not enough of that to be significant. I'm just using 30 days as an example, I'm pretty sure it was more than that.

>
> --
>
> Rick C.
>
> - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 3:37:23 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <bfecd660-6655-4c8e...@googlegroups.com>,
> bloggs.fred...@gmail.com says...
> >
> > There was plenty of gasoline in the distribution centers to coast through a crummy five day shutdown. But the hysterical public went on a panic gas buying spree trying to draw a 30 day supply in a single day, which of course depleted and closed every gas station in sight. Of course the politicians are making it out like the
> "innocent" public has been victimized by the big bad corporation. One can only guess what would happen in a real emergency, like say, Russia detonating a 100Mt cobalt bomb in NY harbor with that AI controlled Poseidon torpedo, which is predicted to poison the entire east coast of U.S.
> >
> >
> Chances are that if the shutdown was not mentioned the general public
> would never have noticed it.
>
> The press scared the public and caused the panic buying.

The supply of gasoline ended 5 days ago. That is long enough ago that supplies would be running out even without panic buying. But certainly the excess buying did not help the situation at all.

People are people. If others are rushing out to fill their tanks, should anyone NOT do the same and be the ones sitting along the side of the road? The difference between gasoline and toilet paper is that while people can get irrational and buy up a year's worth of toilet paper, very few people have the means for even hoarding a month of gasoline, much less anything truly significant. On the average tanks will be half full, so even if they all went out at the same time to fill their tanks the average impact would just be a half tank per person or less. Then once their tanks are full they can't buy gas any faster than they use it up. Of course that ignores those who choose to truly hoard by filling gerry cans and such.

One of the reasons why I don't have a gasoline lawn mower is because I don't want to put the smelly gas can in my car, even before it was a Tesla. I had a truck and could put it in the bed, otherwise I won't put a gas can in the trunk even. Gasoline sucks!

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 5/14/2021 12:55 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:

> You're missing the point. The consumer demand which would ordinarily be
> uniformly distributed over a 30 day period was condensed into a single day.

So? I suspect most vendors would be THRILLED if they could sell all of their
product in a single day -- instead of having to staff for a whole month to
do the EXACT SAME amount of business!

If, as has been claimed, there was no need for the "rush", then WHEN supplies
come back on line, there will be a lull in business -- as all of those full
tanks will need time to be depleted to whatever NORMAL level triggers a
refueling (in the user's mind).

You could argue that retailers were chagrined that they didn't have enough
SUPPLY to meet the incredible demand -- but, there wouldn't have been that
demand to *require* that sort of supply!

> There were some instances of hoarding, people filling big jerry cans and so

Will the gas in those cans SPOIL in the week (or two) that the fuel in
the vehicle takes to be depleted?

I.e., aside from price gouging, where's the "waste"?

> forth, some dim enough to try use those flimsy plastic grocery bags, but not
> enough of that to be significant. I'm just using 30 days as an example, I'm
> pretty sure it was more than that.

On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 3:55:23 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 3:22:50 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 2:47:08 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 11:22:28 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > > > On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 8:05:29 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > > Probably something to do with Russian porn sites and Baptists:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://apnews.com/article/va-state-wire-technology-business-1f06c091c492c1630471d29a9cf6529d
> > > > >
> > > > > Another American farce operation...
> > > > Hacker said they lost access to some server with the crypto ransom. Perhaps they don't want to pay their "Russian Income Tax".
> > > There was plenty of gasoline in the distribution centers to coast through a crummy five day shutdown. But the hysterical public went on a panic gas buying spree trying to draw a 30 day supply in a single day, which of course depleted and closed every gas station in sight. Of course the politicians are making it out like the "innocent" public has been victimized by the big bad corporation. One can only guess what would happen in a real emergency, like say, Russia detonating a 100Mt cobalt bomb in NY harbor with that AI controlled Poseidon torpedo, which is predicted to poison the entire east coast of U.S.
> > Much of your post is a bit hysterical, more so than the public. People can't hoard 30 days worth of gas since they can only fill their tanks which is much less than a 30 day supply for most. Then once their tanks are filled, they don't use gas any faster than they did before gas was in short supply. So the shortage was real. Their is still uncertainty since the pipeline take time to come fully up to speed and then to distribute. Expect to see shortages on the East coast for a few more days.
> >
> > Now that prices will be heading downward again, figure people won't be so eager to keep their tanks full.
> >
> > I wish I had gone out a bit during this so I could look at some gas lines. I've forgotten what that feels like. Hopefully Tesla is doing a better job of securing their power supply.
> You're missing the point. The consumer demand which would ordinarily be uniformly distributed over a 30 day period was condensed into a single day. There were some instances of hoarding, people filling big jerry cans and so forth, some dim enough to try use those flimsy plastic grocery bags, but not enough of that to be significant. I'm just using 30 days as an example, I'm pretty sure it was more than that.

I get the point. But your 30 day number is pulled from air. A typical gas tank gives something around 300 miles of range. Once a month means 3,600 miles a year, some 4x times lower gas usage than the average. So 1 week of gas is more like it and that's a full tank. Not everyone had an empty tank when the news broke. More like 3 days worth of extra gasoline being bought within 3 days. I think that gives you a better idea of how limited the gas supply really is. Had no one panicked the supply would still have run out in the days the supply will be short. Even with the pipeline back to work it will be days yet for that gas to reach the pumps.

Please don't exaggerate the facts.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 4:08:49 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> On 5/14/2021 12:55 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>
> > You're missing the point. The consumer demand which would ordinarily be
> > uniformly distributed over a 30 day period was condensed into a single day.
> So? I suspect most vendors would be THRILLED if they could sell all of their
> product in a single day -- instead of having to staff for a whole month to
> do the EXACT SAME amount of business!
>
> If, as has been claimed, there was no need for the "rush", then WHEN supplies
> come back on line, there will be a lull in business -- as all of those full
> tanks will need time to be depleted to whatever NORMAL level triggers a
> refueling (in the user's mind).

The distributors are still working to the meet the demand. No news has been published about them running out of gas. That means there was never a shortage, the gas was there.

>
> You could argue that retailers were chagrined that they didn't have enough
> SUPPLY to meet the incredible demand -- but, there wouldn't have been that
> demand to *require* that sort of supply!
> > There were some instances of hoarding, people filling big jerry cans and so
> Will the gas in those cans SPOIL in the week (or two) that the fuel in
> the vehicle takes to be depleted?

For the people who don't know how to use STA-BIL, it will spoil if they leave it long enough. I don't have any problem with storage for a year using the recommended amount. In my case it's gas in the tank of a car that's rarely driven.

>
> I.e., aside from price gouging, where's the "waste"?
> > forth, some dim enough to try use those flimsy plastic grocery bags, but not
> > enough of that to be significant. I'm just using 30 days as an example, I'm
> > pretty sure it was more than that.

On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 4:11:11 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 3:55:23 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 3:22:50 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 2:47:08 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 11:22:28 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 8:05:29 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > > > Probably something to do with Russian porn sites and Baptists:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://apnews.com/article/va-state-wire-technology-business-1f06c091c492c1630471d29a9cf6529d
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another American farce operation...
> > > > > Hacker said they lost access to some server with the crypto ransom. Perhaps they don't want to pay their "Russian Income Tax".
> > > > There was plenty of gasoline in the distribution centers to coast through a crummy five day shutdown. But the hysterical public went on a panic gas buying spree trying to draw a 30 day supply in a single day, which of course depleted and closed every gas station in sight. Of course the politicians are making it out like the "innocent" public has been victimized by the big bad corporation. One can only guess what would happen in a real emergency, like say, Russia detonating a 100Mt cobalt bomb in NY harbor with that AI controlled Poseidon torpedo, which is predicted to poison the entire east coast of U.S.
> > > Much of your post is a bit hysterical, more so than the public. People can't hoard 30 days worth of gas since they can only fill their tanks which is much less than a 30 day supply for most. Then once their tanks are filled, they don't use gas any faster than they did before gas was in short supply. So the shortage was real. Their is still uncertainty since the pipeline take time to come fully up to speed and then to distribute. Expect to see shortages on the East coast for a few more days.
> > >
> > > Now that prices will be heading downward again, figure people won't be so eager to keep their tanks full.
> > >
> > > I wish I had gone out a bit during this so I could look at some gas lines. I've forgotten what that feels like. Hopefully Tesla is doing a better job of securing their power supply.
> > You're missing the point. The consumer demand which would ordinarily be uniformly distributed over a 30 day period was condensed into a single day.. There were some instances of hoarding, people filling big jerry cans and so forth, some dim enough to try use those flimsy plastic grocery bags, but not enough of that to be significant. I'm just using 30 days as an example, I'm pretty sure it was more than that.
> I get the point. But your 30 day number is pulled from air. A typical gas tank gives something around 300 miles of range. Once a month means 3,600 miles a year, some 4x times lower gas usage than the average. So 1 week of gas is more like it and that's a full tank. Not everyone had an empty tank when the news broke. More like 3 days worth of extra gasoline being bought within 3 days. I think that gives you a better idea of how limited the gas supply really is. Had no one panicked the supply would still have run out in the days the supply will be short. Even with the pipeline back to work it will be days yet for that gas to reach the pumps.
>
> Please don't exaggerate the facts.

As usual you're overcomplicating things and consequently getting it wrong. If the gas station pump business increased by a factor of 30 then so has the demand. You don't need pronounced cerebral capacity to figure that one out.

>
> --
>
> Rick C.
>
> + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 5/14/2021 1:16 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 4:08:49 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
>> On 5/14/2021 12:55 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>
>>> You're missing the point. The consumer demand which would ordinarily be
>>> uniformly distributed over a 30 day period was condensed into a single
>>> day.
>> So? I suspect most vendors would be THRILLED if they could sell all of
>> their product in a single day -- instead of having to staff for a whole
>> month to do the EXACT SAME amount of business!
>>
>> If, as has been claimed, there was no need for the "rush", then WHEN
>> supplies come back on line, there will be a lull in business -- as all of
>> those full tanks will need time to be depleted to whatever NORMAL level
>> triggers a refueling (in the user's mind).
>
> The distributors are still working to the meet the demand. No news has been
> published about them running out of gas. That means there was never a
> shortage, the gas was there.

Then the "peak" is just a transient that will be averaged into
subsequent demand.

Again, so?

>> You could argue that retailers were chagrined that they didn't have
>> enough SUPPLY to meet the incredible demand -- but, there wouldn't have
>> been that demand to *require* that sort of supply!
>>> There were some instances of hoarding, people filling big jerry cans and
>>> so
>> Will the gas in those cans SPOIL in the week (or two) that the fuel in the
>> vehicle takes to be depleted?
>
> For the people who don't know how to use STA-BIL, it will spoil if they
> leave it long enough.

Do you REALLY think people ran out and bought gas thinking they
needed to ACQUIRE a year's worth of fuel? Folks who drive average
cars and average amounts can probably go through 20 gallons in a week.

So, would they have "stocked up" on another 20 gallons?
Would they have been panicked enough to run out and buy 4
jerry cans to do so? Would they think about where to store it?
And, if they *did*, then THAT 20 gallons would be gone, a
week from now!

"Panicky" folks -- who drive very little -- would likely consider
a smaller amount to be an adequate buffer. 5 gallons? Even at
their reduced rate of consumption, it's still going to be gone
in relatively short order.

By coincidence, we gassed up just before this hit the news.
In three weeks, the tank will drop to the halfway mark and
we'll start thinking about topping it off, again.

Why would we *ever* want to keep any extra fuel on hand?
If, at the three week point, we see gas is in short supply,
we'll be more cautious in our driving and more alert to
possible supplies.

We "store" the gas for the genset in the car's gas tank.
Why bother with a separate fuel container?

But, won't start sweating for at least another two weeks
AFTER that!

> I don't have any problem with storage for a year using
> the recommended amount. In my case it's gas in the tank of a car that's
> rarely driven.
>
>>
>> I.e., aside from price gouging, where's the "waste"?
>>> forth, some dim enough to try use those flimsy plastic grocery bags, but
>>> not enough of that to be significant. I'm just using 30 days as an
>>> example, I'm pretty sure it was more than that.

On 5/14/2021 1:20 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> As usual you're overcomplicating things and consequently getting it wrong.
> If the gas station pump business increased by a factor of 30 then so has the
> demand. You don't need pronounced cerebral capacity to figure that one out.

No, the PEAK demand increased. If the supply will eventually be restored
(and, you claim there was no REAL shortage so *you're* implying that the
average consumption will be unchanged; had there been a real, protracted
shortage, then consumption would have fallen to meet supply), then
the future demand will "average out" the short-term spike.

Folks hoarded toilet paper. When the shortage ended, they didn't discard the
TP they had purchased. Instead, they just decided they didn't need to buy
any *additional* TP -- for quite some time! Their "toilet habits" and
bodily functions didn't speed up nor slow down -- just the supplies on
hand!

Ditto hand sanitizer. The local stores have been trying to dump it
because they overreacted to the peak demand -- which has long since waned.

On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 4:16:32 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 4:08:49 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> > On 5/14/2021 12:55 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> >
> > > You're missing the point. The consumer demand which would ordinarily be
> > > uniformly distributed over a 30 day period was condensed into a single day.
> > So? I suspect most vendors would be THRILLED if they could sell all of their
> > product in a single day -- instead of having to staff for a whole month to
> > do the EXACT SAME amount of business!
> >
> > If, as has been claimed, there was no need for the "rush", then WHEN supplies
> > come back on line, there will be a lull in business -- as all of those full
> > tanks will need time to be depleted to whatever NORMAL level triggers a
> > refueling (in the user's mind).
> The distributors are still working to the meet the demand. No news has been published about them running out of gas. That means there was never a shortage, the gas was there.

I think you are smoking the dope on this one. No, the news reports aren't "Gasoline distribution centers are out of gas" because no one cares about the distribution centers. The photos and reports are about the lines and empty pumps.

If distributors really did still have plenty of gas, the stations would be getting the same amount and would not need to close, they would just have long lines from the higher demand. Around here Sheetz gets multiple deliveries a day, they will pump gas 24/7 if they have gas. The reports would not include quotes like, "But it will take several days for deliveries to return to normal, the company said."

Why do you need to make up your own facts?

> > You could argue that retailers were chagrined that they didn't have enough
> > SUPPLY to meet the incredible demand -- but, there wouldn't have been that
> > demand to *require* that sort of supply!
> > > There were some instances of hoarding, people filling big jerry cans and so
> > Will the gas in those cans SPOIL in the week (or two) that the fuel in
> > the vehicle takes to be depleted?
> For the people who don't know how to use STA-BIL, it will spoil if they leave it long enough. I don't have any problem with storage for a year using the recommended amount. In my case it's gas in the tank of a car that's rarely driven.
> >
> > I.e., aside from price gouging, where's the "waste"?
> > > forth, some dim enough to try use those flimsy plastic grocery bags, but not
> > > enough of that to be significant. I'm just using 30 days as an example, I'm
> > > pretty sure it was more than that.

Ah, so that's the 300 mile per month car?!!! I wondered where the 30 day number came from.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 4:35:05 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> On 5/14/2021 1:20 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > As usual you're overcomplicating things and consequently getting it wrong.
> > If the gas station pump business increased by a factor of 30 then so has the
> > demand. You don't need pronounced cerebral capacity to figure that one out.
> No, the PEAK demand increased. If the supply will eventually be restored
> (and, you claim there was no REAL shortage so *you're* implying that the
> average consumption will be unchanged; had there been a real, protracted
> shortage, then consumption would have fallen to meet supply), then
> the future demand will "average out" the short-term spike.

It doesn't matter what you call it, the PEAK demand is what was shutting down gas stations.

There was never a shortage of gas in the region, the distributors always had plenty of gas to deliver. But when many hundreds of retailers are ordering refills off schedule, that creates a big problem because they're not going to get it. They're running about a week behind right now because of the jackass panic buyers. The big distributors know exactly how much fuel their customers have on hand and when they need to make a delivery. Maybe you think they should invest in an outsized fleet of delivery vehicles and stadby drivers to cover the off chance of a 30x peak demand? Gimme a break.

The panic buyers were a bigger problem than the hackers.

On Saturday, May 15, 2021 at 2:32:55 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 4:35:05 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> > On 5/14/2021 1:20 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > As usual you're overcomplicating things and consequently getting it wrong.
> > > If the gas station pump business increased by a factor of 30 then so has the
> > > demand. You don't need pronounced cerebral capacity to figure that one out.
> > No, the PEAK demand increased. If the supply will eventually be restored
> > (and, you claim there was no REAL shortage so *you're* implying that the
> > average consumption will be unchanged; had there been a real, protracted
> > shortage, then consumption would have fallen to meet supply), then
> > the future demand will "average out" the short-term spike.
> It doesn't matter what you call it, the PEAK demand is what was shutting down gas stations.
>
> There was never a shortage of gas in the region, the distributors always had plenty of gas to deliver. But when many hundreds of retailers are ordering refills off schedule, that creates a big problem because they're not going to get it. They're running about a week behind right now because of the jackass panic buyers. The big distributors know exactly how much fuel their customers have on hand and when they need to make a delivery. Maybe you think they should invest in an outsized fleet of delivery vehicles and stadby drivers to cover the off chance of a 30x peak demand? Gimme a break.
>
> The panic buyers were a bigger problem than the hackers.

This has been explained to you very, very clearly. The average demand is about 1 tank of gas per week, per car. The peak demand can only be for an average of 1/2 tank of gas, or about 3-4 days of supply. You are treating this as if people were filling up big storage tanks in their basement. The majority of the gas provided is through retailers who get daily deliveries or deliveries more than once per day. If they are not getting these same deliveries it's because there IS NOT ENOUGH GAS to go around, not because they can't get 10 deliveries a day.

Why is this hard to understand? What is wrong with people that they won't look at the facts?

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 5/15/2021 11:32 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 4:35:05 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
>> On 5/14/2021 1:20 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>> As usual you're overcomplicating things and consequently getting it
>>> wrong. If the gas station pump business increased by a factor of 30 then
>>> so has the demand. You don't need pronounced cerebral capacity to figure
>>> that one out.
>> No, the PEAK demand increased. If the supply will eventually be restored
>> (and, you claim there was no REAL shortage so *you're* implying that the
>> average consumption will be unchanged; had there been a real, protracted
>> shortage, then consumption would have fallen to meet supply), then the
>> future demand will "average out" the short-term spike.
>
> It doesn't matter what you call it, the PEAK demand is what was shutting
> down gas stations.

When I am pumping gas, the "demand" (from the vendor's viewpoint) is
"infinitely" higher than when I shut off the pump, put the cap on my
tank, climb into the car -- and drive away. If the next driver shows
up an hour later, then demand has been *zero* in the time since my
fillup.

This is exactly the case when a long line of cars queue for gas.
There are lots of "demands" as each driver fills his/her vehicle.
Followed by NO demand -- until the next car drives up.

If 100 cars queue up in the first hour -- and then none of them
reappear for the next WEEK -- the period of peak demand is brief
and the period of NO demand is long. Esp if the "no demand" is
effectively a result of NO SUPPLY!

The total amount of gas consumer doesn't change -- unless there
is a true, persistent shortage. If I change my driving habits because
I can't *get* fuel, then demand can fall.

But, if I'll be able to get fuel 5 days hence, it's likely my
driving habits (demand) won't change.

I can buy an extra 30 day supply of toilet paper -- because it
doesn't cost much, I can store it easily/safely, it doesn't "expire",
etc.

But, I can't do that with fuel. So, when faced with the POSSIBILITY of
not being able to get it when I want it, it seems prudent to buy
as much as I can *conveniently* store. If this happens at a random
time in my normal fill-use cycle, I will likely have the capacity to
take on *half* of what I *normally* would take. E.g., if I operate
my vehicle with the tank between half full and full, then, a
random point in time will find me with 1/4 of a tank "available"
for topping off. Folks who run their tanks *dry* will, typically,
be found to have half a tank "on hand".

Said another way, the time to next "fillup" will have been halved;
instead of waiting until next week for my tank to empty to the
point that triggers the "refill event", I will do it now -- half
of the time between such events (on average).

Once full, the original time-between-refill-events will resume.
I've just skewed the events in time by half of that period.

> There was never a shortage of gas in the region, the distributors always had
> plenty of gas to deliver. But when many hundreds of retailers are ordering
> refills off schedule, that creates a big problem because they're not going
> to get it. They're running about a week behind right now because of the

So? Their "jackass panic buyers" won't be NEEDING fuel as soon as if
they hadn't topped off "prematurely".

> jackass panic buyers. The big distributors know exactly how much fuel their
> customers have on hand and when they need to make a delivery. Maybe you
> think they should invest in an outsized fleet of delivery vehicles and
> stadby drivers to cover the off chance of a 30x peak demand? Gimme a
> break.

No one is faulting them for not immediately refilling every vendor's
tank. They are still delivering fuel at the same rate -- they just
have a "bigger hole" to fill.

But, that hole won't be getting bigger because the "jackass panic
buyers" have already sated themselves.

Just like the guy with 300 rolls of toilet paper isn't going to
be making any additional demands for toilet paper any time soon!

> The panic buyers were a bigger problem than the hackers.

Let's take your argument to its logical conclusion: imagine the
hackers didn't relent and kept the pipeline shutdown for MONTHS.
Who's the "bigger problem"?

The problem isn't the hackers. The problem is the pipeline operator leaving
itself vulnerable to them. And, the likely lack of consequences (aside
from the short-term outage) for their negligence.

Yeah, if someone walks into your house and takes your stuff, *they*
appear to be the bad guy. But, *you* were the source of the problem;
YOU gave them the opportunity.

If banks were "self-service" ("Here's a pile of money; fill out a withdrawal
slip and take what you need; fill out a deposit slip and place your funds
atop the pile"), would you blame the folks who gleefully filled their
pockets with cash as the "problem"??

On Saturday, May 15, 2021 at 3:57:34 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
,snip>

Until you're prepared to cast the supply, demand and scheduling " as linear network flow
optimization problems, for which very efficient digital computer programs are
available"- there won't be any interest in what you're saying.

On 5/15/2021 2:07 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Saturday, May 15, 2021 at 3:57:34 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> ,snip>
>
> Until you're prepared to cast the supply, demand and scheduling " as linear network flow
> optimization problems, for which very efficient digital computer programs are
> available"- there won't be any interest in what you're saying.

(sigh) You just really miss the whole point of all this, don't you?

Rather than laying the "blame" at the place most deserving of it
(arguably, either the operator or the hacker), you choose to blame
PEOPLE for looking out for their own self-interests.

One wonders what sort of dystopia YOU would consider "ideal"?

On 5/14/2021 4:03 PM, Rick C wrote:
> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 3:37:23 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>> In article <bfecd660-6655-4c8e...@googlegroups.com>,
>> bloggs.fred...@gmail.com says...
>>>
>>> There was plenty of gasoline in the distribution centers to coast through a crummy five day shutdown. But the hysterical public went on a panic gas buying spree trying to draw a 30 day supply in a single day, which of course depleted and closed every gas station in sight. Of course the politicians are making it out like the
>> "innocent" public has been victimized by the big bad corporation. One can only guess what would happen in a real emergency, like say, Russia detonating a 100Mt cobalt bomb in NY harbor with that AI controlled Poseidon torpedo, which is predicted to poison the entire east coast of U.S.
>>>
>>>
>> Chances are that if the shutdown was not mentioned the general public
>> would never have noticed it.
>>
>> The press scared the public and caused the panic buying.
>
> The supply of gasoline ended 5 days ago. That is long enough ago that supplies would be running out even without panic buying. But certainly the excess buying did not help the situation at all.
>
> People are people. If others are rushing out to fill their tanks, should anyone NOT do the same and be the ones sitting along the side of the road? The difference between gasoline and toilet paper is that while people can get irrational and buy up a year's worth of toilet paper, very few people have the means for even hoarding a month of gasoline, much less anything truly significant. On the average tanks will be half full, so even if they all went out at the same time to fill their tanks the average impact would just be a half tank per person or less. Then once their tanks are full they can't buy gas any faster than they use it up. Of course that ignores those who choose to truly hoard by filling gerry cans and such.
>
> One of the reasons why I don't have a gasoline lawn mower is because I don't want to put the smelly gas can in my car, even before it was a Tesla. I had a truck and could put it in the bed, otherwise I won't put a gas can in the trunk even. Gasoline sucks!

If only the press had avoided telling Americans gender is a social
construct they never would have noticed, either.

However they could have at least told the general public when they did
that gasoline was the favorite hydrocarbon of the non-binary. And they
would have all run to put the gasoline back.

On 5/14/2021 3:43 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 3:37:23 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>> In article <bfecd660-6655-4c8e...@googlegroups.com>,
>> bloggs.fred...@gmail.com says...
>>>
>>> There was plenty of gasoline in the distribution centers to coast through a crummy five day shutdown. But the hysterical public went on a panic gas buying spree trying to draw a 30 day supply in a single day, which of course depleted and closed every gas station in sight. Of course the politicians are making it out like the
>> "innocent" public has been victimized by the big bad corporation. One can only guess what would happen in a real emergency, like say, Russia detonating a 100Mt cobalt bomb in NY harbor with that AI controlled Poseidon torpedo, which is predicted to poison the entire east coast of U.S.
>>>
>>>
>> Chances are that if the shutdown was not mentioned the general public
>> would never have noticed it.
>>
>> The press scared the public and caused the panic buying.
>
> EXACTLY
>

Imagine if the press told the general public what the climate change
models actually say and not the toned-down
remember-to-use-paper-bags-to-save-the-Earth version

On 14/05/2021 21:29, Don Y wrote:
> On 5/14/2021 1:16 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 4:08:49 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

>>> Will the gas in those cans SPOIL in the week (or two) that the fuel
>>> in the
>>> vehicle takes to be depleted?
>>
>> For the people who don't know how to use STA-BIL, it will spoil if they
>> leave it long enough.
>
> Do you REALLY think people ran out and bought gas thinking they
> needed to ACQUIRE a year's worth of fuel?  Folks who drive average
> cars and average amounts can probably go through 20 gallons in a week.

Not sure how well US fuel keeps but in the UK I have metal jerry cans of
petrol (for the lawnmower and runabout) and diesel (for the car). It
certainly lasts a year without any problem. Never tried it any longer.

In pre pandemic era when I was doing a fairly high mileage (for the UK
mileage) I was using 55L of diesel a week. I think that's ~12 gallons.

> "Panicky" folks -- who drive very little -- would likely consider
> a smaller amount to be an adequate buffer.  5 gallons?  Even at
> their reduced rate of consumption, it's still going to be gone
> in relatively short order.

Actually you have it pretty much exactly wrong.

People who do high mileage tend to have a very good idea how much they
will need and already have a full jerry can of it in their garage. I did
buy an extra one in the un up to Brexit anticipating more of an MFU.

It is the people who drive around with at most $10 fuel in their tank
all filling up simultaneously that depletes the distribution system.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/mar/29/francis-maude-panic-buying-petrol

A UK government made self inflicted fuel crisis.

> By coincidence, we gassed up just before this hit the news.
> In three weeks, the tank will drop to the halfway mark and
> we'll start thinking about topping it off, again.
>
> Why would we *ever* want to keep any extra fuel on hand?
> If, at the three week point, we see gas is in short supply,
> we'll be more cautious in our driving and more alert to
> possible supplies.
>
> We "store" the gas for the genset in the car's gas tank.
> Why bother with a separate fuel container?

Have you ever tried syphoning fuel out of a modern car?

Lockdown means that my 60L fuel tank lasts about 2 months or 750 miles
(and over 800 miles if my wife is driving). I drive that bit faster.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 5/16/2021 6:39 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 14/05/2021 21:29, Don Y wrote:
>> On 5/14/2021 1:16 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 4:08:49 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
>
>>>> Will the gas in those cans SPOIL in the week (or two) that the fuel in the
>>>> vehicle takes to be depleted?
>>>
>>> For the people who don't know how to use STA-BIL, it will spoil if they
>>> leave it long enough.
>>
>> Do you REALLY think people ran out and bought gas thinking they
>> needed to ACQUIRE a year's worth of fuel? Folks who drive average
>> cars and average amounts can probably go through 20 gallons in a week.
>
> Not sure how well US fuel keeps but in the UK I have metal jerry cans of petrol
> (for the lawnmower and runabout) and diesel (for the car). It certainly lasts a
> year without any problem. Never tried it any longer.

No one has a *need* to store fuel. The last time fuel was "hard to get"
for any extended period of time was in the 70's.

> In pre pandemic era when I was doing a fairly high mileage (for the UK mileage)
> I was using 55L of diesel a week. I think that's ~12 gallons.

US car manufacturers assume an "average" driver does ~1000 miles monthly.
That's 250/week -- somewhere between 8 and 12 gallons (for most
"city" driving).

>> "Panicky" folks -- who drive very little -- would likely consider
>> a smaller amount to be an adequate buffer. 5 gallons? Even at
>> their reduced rate of consumption, it's still going to be gone
>> in relatively short order.
>
> Actually you have it pretty much exactly wrong.
>
> People who do high mileage tend to have a very good idea how much they will
> need and already have a full jerry can of it in their garage. I did buy an
> extra one in the un up to Brexit anticipating more of an MFU.

I can't think of ANYONE, here, who "stores gas" other than for a
gasoline powered lawnmower. Gas stations are located on *almost*
every street corner; why wouldn't I let them store "my" gas in
*their* tank -- and I'll just pick it up (and pay for it) when
I need it?

A neighbor has an extra 160G tank on his diesel pickup.
The truck sits in his driveway for long periods of time.
Often, he needs to have it jump started because one or
both of the batteries have died from disuse.

I.e., despite having ~200G available while driving, he
is not a "high mileage" driver. Rather, he relies on it
when he makes the biannual 1000+ mile (each way) trip to
visit his relatives.

> It is the people who drive around with at most $10 fuel in their tank all
> filling up simultaneously that depletes the distribution system.
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/mar/29/francis-maude-panic-buying-petrol
>
> A UK government made self inflicted fuel crisis.
>
>> By coincidence, we gassed up just before this hit the news.
>> In three weeks, the tank will drop to the halfway mark and
>> we'll start thinking about topping it off, again.
>>
>> Why would we *ever* want to keep any extra fuel on hand?
>> If, at the three week point, we see gas is in short supply,
>> we'll be more cautious in our driving and more alert to
>> possible supplies.
>>
>> We "store" the gas for the genset in the car's gas tank.
>> Why bother with a separate fuel container?
>
> Have you ever tried syphoning fuel out of a modern car?

We have two vehicles. The older doesn't have the antisiphoning
mechanism of the newer vehicles. We also have these things called
*neighbors* many of which also have "another" car on hand.
Few folks will mind if you "borrow" a few gallons of gas from
them -- in a POWER outage. Esp if they are likely to benefit from
*your* continued access to refrigeration, etc.

> Lockdown means that my 60L fuel tank lasts about 2 months or 750 miles (and
> over 800 miles if my wife is driving). I drive that bit faster.

In years past, we would drive ~5K miles in a year -- about 400 in a month.
Lockdown has seen that drop to less than 3000 (~1000 mi/yr that I previously
would have spent at my /pro bono/ gigs has been replaced by "work from home"
and most of my other half's activities have been canceled).

With "all city" driving (stop every half mile for a traffic light), we
get about 350 miles on a tank (year round air conditioning represents
about a 10% hit on fuel economy). So, *could* go for about 5-6 weeks
on a tank *if* we let the tank drop below half full (we don't).

On Sunday, May 16, 2021 at 10:09:50 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> In years past, we would drive ~5K miles in a year -- about 400 in a month.
> Lockdown has seen that drop to less than 3000 (~1000 mi/yr that I previously
> would have spent at my /pro bono/ gigs has been replaced by "work from home"
> and most of my other half's activities have been canceled).
>
> With "all city" driving (stop every half mile for a traffic light), we
> get about 350 miles on a tank (year round air conditioning represents
> about a 10% hit on fuel economy). So, *could* go for about 5-6 weeks
> on a tank *if* we let the tank drop below half full (we don't).

It has been a while since I bought gas. Perhaps someone can refresh my memory as to what all the hassle is about??? Why can't you just connect your car to the gas outlet and charge it with gas at home???

I really not getting this at all. Maybe you don't have the right adapters?

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209