Many relativity gurus say and teach that relativistic effects can only be observed with relativistic velocities, but looking at the Lorentz transform, we can also note that relativistic effects can be observed with everyday velocities if relativistic distances are used. So here is a simple length contraction - simultaneous event scenario that leads to contradictions using every day velocities.
There are two vessels, A and B moving toward each other, parallel to the x-axis with relative velocity |V| equal to 3 meters per second. One vessel is slightly above the x-axis in the y-direction and one vessel is slightly below the y-axis. The proper length of each of these vessels is L but the vessels are extremely long. The vessels are so long that the observers measure the length of each other's vessel to be 10 meters shorter than the length of their own vessel. Spaced at 1 meter intervals on each vessel, a line of robots, extend the length of each vessel. Each of these robots has a shotgun that is pointed perpendicular to the x-axis in the y direction. If the shotgun is fired, the blast destroys anything in a 2 meter radius, and the recoil from the shotgun also damages and destroys the robot that fired it.
The robots on each vessel are from different robot races. These two races are at war with each other. The robot in command on each of these vessels wants to simultaneously destroy all the robots on board the other vessel when the opportunity arises. The commander of vessel A computes that once the two vessels meet, the two vessels will be aligned side by side with each other T seconds after they meet (although vessel B will be 10 meters shorter). The commander sees that the two vessels will initially meet when clocks on board his vessel read t=0. So he orders all the robots to fire their guns at time t = T if any part of the enemy vessel is directly across from his position. If no part of the enemy vessel is directly across from the robot's position no shot is fired from that position. So at time t = T on vessel A, all except 10 robots simultaneously fire their shotguns, totally destroying every robot on the other vessel. After this action, 10 robots still remain on vessel A without any damage while all the robots on the other vessel are totally destroyed.
However, the commander of vessel B does the same computations. He sees that the two vessels will meet when clocks on board his vessel read t'=0 and that the two vessels will be totally aligned side by side T' seconds later, although vessel A will be 10 meters shorter. He orders all robots to fire their shotguns at time T' if any part of vessel A is directly across from that robot. T' seconds after the two vessels meet, the robots on vessel B fire their shotguns as ordered, destroying all robots on the other vessel and leaving 10 robots on vessel B undamaged.
Which of these robot races win this battle? To me, the data is contradictory. Please explain what happens in this battle.
Thanks,
David Seppala
Bastrop TX

On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 8:23:42 AM UTC-5, sep...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Many relativity gurus say and teach that relativistic effects can only be observed with relativistic velocities, but looking at the Lorentz transform, we can also note that relativistic effects can be observed with everyday velocities if relativistic distances are used. So here is a simple length contraction - simultaneous event scenario that leads to contradictions using every day velocities.
> There are two vessels, A and B moving toward each other, parallel to the x-axis with relative velocity |V| equal to 3 meters per second. One vessel is slightly above the x-axis in the y-direction and one vessel is slightly below the y-axis. The proper length of each of these vessels is L but the vessels are extremely long. The vessels are so long that the observers measure the length of each other's vessel to be 10 meters shorter than the length of their own vessel. Spaced at 1 meter intervals on each vessel, a line of robots, extend the length of each vessel. Each of these robots has a shotgun that is pointed perpendicular to the x-axis in the y direction. If the shotgun is fired, the blast destroys anything in a 2 meter radius, and the recoil from the shotgun also damages and destroys the robot that fired it.
> The robots on each vessel are from different robot races. These two races are at war with each other. The robot in command on each of these vessels wants to simultaneously destroy all the robots on board the other vessel when the opportunity arises. The commander of vessel A computes that once the two vessels meet, the two vessels will be aligned side by side with each other T seconds after they meet (although vessel B will be 10 meters shorter). The commander sees that the two vessels will initially meet when clocks on board his vessel read t=0. So he orders all the robots to fire their guns at time t = T if any part of the enemy vessel is directly across from his position. If no part of the enemy vessel is directly across from the robot's position no shot is fired from that position. So at time t = T on vessel A, all except 10 robots simultaneously fire their shotguns, totally destroying every robot on the other vessel. After this action, 10 robots still remain on vessel A without any damage while all the robots on the other vessel are totally destroyed.
> However, the commander of vessel B does the same computations. He sees that the two vessels will meet when clocks on board his vessel read t'=0 and that the two vessels will be totally aligned side by side T' seconds later, although vessel A will be 10 meters shorter. He orders all robots to fire their shotguns at time T' if any part of vessel A is directly across from that robot. T' seconds after the two vessels meet, the robots on vessel B fire their shotguns as ordered, destroying all robots on the other vessel and leaving 10 robots on vessel B undamaged.
> Which of these robot races win this battle? To me, the data is contradictory. Please explain what happens in this battle.
> Thanks,
> David Seppala
> Bastrop TX
So in this scenario, each vessel has 10 robots remaining. Is that correct?
Thanks,
David Seppala
Bastrop TX

On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 6:23:42 AM UTC-7, sep...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Many relativity gurus say and teach...

Straw man.

> There are two vessels, A and B moving toward each other...Please explain what happens in this battle.

The trailing 10 robots in each ship survive, because the leading robots in the other ship that would have taken them out are gone by the time of intersection.

Special Relativity: 785
Barnpole Dave: 0

Diagnosis: Dave (for the 785th time) was confused by the relativity of simultaneity.

sepp623@yahoo.com wrote:

> Many relativity gurus say and teach that relativistic effects can only
> be observed with relativistic velocities, but looking at the Lorentz
> transform, we can also note that relativistic effects can be observed
> with everyday velocities if relativistic distances are used. So here is
> a simple length contraction - simultaneous event scenario that leads to
> contradictions using every day velocities.

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On 30-Jul-21 11:23 pm, sepp623@yahoo.com wrote:
> Many relativity gurus say and teach that relativistic effects can
> only be observed with relativistic velocities, but looking at the
> Lorentz transform, we can also note that relativistic effects can be
> observed with everyday velocities if relativistic distances are used.
> So here is a simple length contraction - simultaneous event scenario
> that leads to contradictions using every day velocities. There are
> two vessels, A and B moving toward each other, parallel to the x-axis
> with relative velocity |V| equal to 3 meters per second. One vessel
> is slightly above the x-axis in the y-direction and one vessel is
> slightly below the y-axis. The proper length of each of these
> vessels is L but the vessels are extremely long. The vessels are so
> long that the observers measure the length of each other's vessel to
> be 10 meters shorter than the length of their own vessel. Spaced at
> 1 meter intervals on each vessel, a line of robots, extend the length
> of each vessel. Each of these robots has a shotgun that is pointed
> perpendicular to the x-axis in the y direction. If the shotgun is
> fired, the blast destroys anything in a 2 meter radius, and the
> recoil from the shotgun also damages and destroys the robot that
> fired it. The robots on each vessel are from different robot races.
> These two races are at war with each other. The robot in command on
> each of these vessels wants to simultaneously destroy all the robots
> on board the other vessel when the opportunity arises. The commander
> of vessel A computes that once the two vessels meet, the two vessels
> will be aligned side by side with each other T seconds after they
> meet (although vessel B will be 10 meters shorter). The commander
> sees that the two vessels will initially meet when clocks on board
> his vessel read t=0. So he orders all the robots to fire their guns
> at time t = T if any part of the enemy vessel is directly across from
> his position. If no part of the enemy vessel is directly across from
> the robot's position no shot is fired from that position. So at time
> t = T on vessel A, all except 10 robots simultaneously fire their
> shotguns, totally destroying every robot on the other vessel. After
> this action, 10 robots still remain on vessel A without any damage
> while all the robots on the other vessel are totally destroyed.
> However, the commander of vessel B does the same computations. He
> sees that the two vessels will meet when clocks on board his vessel
> read t'=0 and that the two vessels will be totally aligned side by
> side T' seconds later, although vessel A will be 10 meters shorter.
> He orders all robots to fire their shotguns at time T' if any part of
> vessel A is directly across from that robot. T' seconds after the two
> vessels meet, the robots on vessel B fire their shotguns as ordered,
> destroying all robots on the other vessel and leaving 10 robots on
> vessel B undamaged. Which of these robot races win this battle? To
> me, the data is contradictory. Please explain what happens in this
> battle. Thanks, David Seppala Bastrop TX
>

Express this in terms of coordinates, apply the Lorentz transform, and
all will become clear.

But you won't. You never do. Instead you insist on using convoluted
descriptions, reach incorrect conclusions that you claim are
contradictory, and expect other people to explain them for you.

You've done this so often that I think you must have some mental disorder.

Sylvia.