On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:08:39 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:59:22 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> I think I may have found what happened. The author of the book simply
>> correlated place names with early residents. Some examples I found in
>> the book:
>>
>> Boardman; township and village in Mahoning County, Ohio, named for the
>> original proprietor, Frederirk Boardmun.

>Absolute bullshit. That author is simply inventing nonsense so his words get published. Some
>authors do that, as we know.
>
>I picked up a book on the history of (adjoining) Boardman Township at the library just now. The
>founder of Boardman Township was Elijah Boardman, who first purchased the land from the
>Connecticut Land Company. The book lists a bit about the Boardman family going back to
>the 1600s. There is no mention of any Frederirk Boardman.
>
>- Frank Krygowski

There's an error in my spelling of Frederirk caused by an OCR error.
It should be Frederick. The original document is full of overlapping
letters and contrived ligatures. That's why I didn't offer my OCR
version for download. I edited what I posted but apparently missed
this error.

If Frederick Boardman has been Polish, it would have been spelled
Fryderyk. If George Poland was from Poland, it would have been Jerzy,
not George. No way to tell where they were from but something seems
odd with the names.

I think you now have enough circumstantial evidence to inform the
author of the Wikipedia page on Poland OH and suggest he simply remove
the offending sentence.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 8:44:26 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:40:40 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 20:27:01 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> > >On 9/12/2022 7:55 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 3:27:27 AM UTC-5, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > >>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:55:21 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 19:31:05 -0400, Catrike Rider
> > >>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:22:12 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 08:32:22 -0400, Catrike Rider
> > >>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 09:00:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 19:33:55 -0400, Catrike Rider
> > >>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 16:22:17 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> > >>>>>>>>> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Majority Believe It's Time to Impeach Biden
> > >>>>>>>>>> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/09/10/poll-majority-want-biden-impeached-n2612849
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> I'm big on the man or woman in elected, appointed and inherited office being respected for the position, until he, she or it (see how woke I am) proves otherwise. I understand that impeachment is a political procedure, not a trial. However, strictly political impeachments, like the two foolish impeachments of Donald Trump, are simply stupid.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> But Joe Biden couldn't have done a better job of losing the respect of the nation of he tried.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> It seems that 53 percent of American voters agree with me.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> But what Biden has already done to ruin America's contentment and to cause Americans to see him for what he is, is not the decisive question the Republicans, likely to be in the majority in the House from next January, and perhaps in the Senate as well, must ask themselves when they debate the impeachment of Joe Biden. The true question is how muchdamage he can still do if they permit him to serve out the two and a quarter years of his first and now clearly only term.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> It might be smart for Republicans to let those disgruntled Democrats who're still decent people deal with Biden while they keep their own hands clean.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute
> > >>>>>>>>>> Nothing wrong with the Democrat Left that a spot of electroshock therapy and a stay in a padded cell won't cure.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I'm sick and tired of the assholes in congress wasting time and money
> > >>>>>>>>> on useless attempts to downgrade their opponents. I'm all for
> > >>>>>>>>> congressional term limits.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> But would the electorate agree? Or would it be like the Long family,
> > >>>>>>>> who have been in Louisiana politics for a hundred year, so far..
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Wanting something to happen and expecting it to happen are two
> > >>>>>>> different things.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> But... you live (and brag about it) in a democracy, which is
> > >>>>>> essentially ruling by the majority and thus the individual becomes a
> > >>>>>> meaningless in the equation of government.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Well, you see, the USA is a republic and we have a Constitution which
> > >>>>> limits the government's powers and also has a list of actions the
> > >>>>> government may not take against individuals.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Re the Constitution... but, as in the Abortion thing the constitution
> > >>>> can be interpreted in more then one way, at different times and thus
> > >>>> is not the iron clad document that some think it is.
> > >>> The US Constitution does not mention anything about abortion, but yes,
> > >>> interpretation is an issue. The SCOTUS once approved of slavery.
> > >>
> > >> The US Constitution explicitly describes allocating House representatives by counting all slaves as 3/5ths of a person for allocation purposes. Yes, the Supreme Court ruled on slavery. Dred Scott case. The 13th Amendment outlawing slavery was not passed until December 1865. So the Supreme Court probably had many cases concerning slaves before this point.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>> As for list of actions the government may not take against
> > >>>> individuals. Well, yes... sort of. Except, of course, when they don't.
> > >>>> Example: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the
> > >>>> right to a speedy and public trial". Yup, right there in the
> > >>>> Constitution.... but I read about people being held in jail for months
> > >>>> and months and months before their trial.
> > >>> Are you talking about the loonies that trespassed on the US Capitol
> > >>> grounds on Jan 6? Otherwise, the delays in trials are almost caused
> > >>> by defense lawyers. When a defendant asks for a speedy trial it
> > >>> usually results in a speedy trial.
> > >>>>>> Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you....
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Too many group thinkers in the USA. They are easily led, but luckily,
> > >>>>> they tend to flock together.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> But isn't that pretty much a definition of "democracy"?
> > >>> Do you really think a gaggle of group thinking collectivists being
> > >>> easily led is the definition of democracy? Luckily, where I live
> > >>> (Florida) we enjoy more freedom than that. Parents actually have a say
> > >>> about what's taught in our schools.
> > >>
> > >> As long as it conforms to Ron Desantis' views. Or else he will remove your school board members and county prosecutors.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >The 3/5 rule is much misunderstood. At formation the
> > >southern States wanted 'all persons' counted for House seats
> > >but not for the franchise. If a hard line had been drawn
> > >(and remember the vote was by no means universal then) the
> > >Constitution would not have been ratified and the USA would
> > >not have been born at all.
> > Well said..
> >
> > The founders were not a bunch of jovial back slappers sharing brews.
> > There was lots of dissension. I give them credit for putting together
> > a system that eventually became the envy of the rest of the world.
> >
> > It's also worth noting that there was lots of slavery in the north
> > back then, too.
> > >There's a tendency now to 'presentism', that is, judging
> > >historic events, decisions and men by standards of today.
> > >It's unhelpful, as with the recent gnashing of teeth over
> > >Lincoln's 'separated races' comment. Understand him in his
> > >time and he looks good, even great.
> I think that the only slave state in the north was North Carolina. Congress even passed anti-slavery laws in territories and new states. Most of the political power was in the north and they had turned against slavery which was nothing more than cheap labor. All of the industrial growth was in the north and people there wanted good jobs and not cheap labor. Most of the real slavery was in the cotton fields in Texas. The original colonies did not treat slaves badly. Originally the slave labor were Irish so this wasn't a case of making slave purely because they were a different race.
>
> I'm sure the stupid six will want to argue about Irish slave yet again after I showed them Irish slave auction notices. When you have stupid asses, they simply can't help from showing their worth.
>
The Irish were indentured labour, pretty near slavery, but there was an endpoint agreed by contract, in return for passage to the New World. Some were harshly treated by their master, but unlike the black slaves mainly from Africa, their servitude was not hereditary. Many of these indentured Irish went on to be substantial landowners in their own right, because in many places, as soon as they were freed men (or women -- quite a few known cases), they were entitled to a land grant like anyone else who could meet the requirements. -- AJ
>

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:59:22 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 09:45:32 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.
>
> Welcome to my discussion. Unlike your threads, anyone is welcome to
> mine. As for stoping and thinking, I never stop thinking.
>
Really, yours? Tsch! This is my thread too, dickhead. Check the first post. If you want to discuss naming conventions of hick towns in Ohio, fuck off, do it elsewhere.
>

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:52:09 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:45:34 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>> So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.

>Liebermann is so engaged in the belief that he actually knows something that he couldn't stop if he wanted to.

For Andre:
Select your disciple wisely or you will surely be judged by their
actions.

For Tom:
Thou shalt not post what thou also find unworthy of reading.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 9/13/2022 2:44 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:40:40 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 20:27:01 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/12/2022 7:55 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 3:27:27 AM UTC-5, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:55:21 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 19:31:05 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:22:12 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 08:32:22 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 09:00:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 19:33:55 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 16:22:17 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>>>>>>>>>>> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Majority Believe It's Time to Impeach Biden
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/09/10/poll-majority-want-biden-impeached-n2612849
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm big on the man or woman in elected, appointed and inherited office being respected for the position, until he, she or it (see how woke I am) proves otherwise. I understand that impeachment is a political procedure, not a trial. However, strictly political impeachments, like the two foolish impeachments of Donald Trump, are simply stupid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But Joe Biden couldn't have done a better job of losing the respect of the nation of he tried.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that 53 percent of American voters agree with me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But what Biden has already done to ruin America's contentment and to cause Americans to see him for what he is, is not the decisive question the Republicans, likely to be in the majority in the House from next January, and perhaps in the Senate as well, must ask themselves when they debate the impeachment of Joe Biden. The true question is how muchdamage he can still do if they permit him to serve out the two and a quarter years of his first and now clearly only term.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It might be smart for Republicans to let those disgruntled Democrats who're still decent people deal with Biden while they keep their own hands clean.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing wrong with the Democrat Left that a spot of electroshock therapy and a stay in a padded cell won't cure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sick and tired of the assholes in congress wasting time and money
>>>>>>>>>>> on useless attempts to downgrade their opponents. I'm all for
>>>>>>>>>>> congressional term limits.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But would the electorate agree? Or would it be like the Long family,
>>>>>>>>>> who have been in Louisiana politics for a hundred year, so far.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wanting something to happen and expecting it to happen are two
>>>>>>>>> different things.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But... you live (and brag about it) in a democracy, which is
>>>>>>>> essentially ruling by the majority and thus the individual becomes a
>>>>>>>> meaningless in the equation of government.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, you see, the USA is a republic and we have a Constitution which
>>>>>>> limits the government's powers and also has a list of actions the
>>>>>>> government may not take against individuals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Re the Constitution... but, as in the Abortion thing the constitution
>>>>>> can be interpreted in more then one way, at different times and thus
>>>>>> is not the iron clad document that some think it is.
>>>>> The US Constitution does not mention anything about abortion, but yes,
>>>>> interpretation is an issue. The SCOTUS once approved of slavery.
>>>>
>>>> The US Constitution explicitly describes allocating House representatives by counting all slaves as 3/5ths of a person for allocation purposes. Yes, the Supreme Court ruled on slavery. Dred Scott case. The 13th Amendment outlawing slavery was not passed until December 1865. So the Supreme Court probably had many cases concerning slaves before this point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> As for list of actions the government may not take against
>>>>>> individuals. Well, yes... sort of. Except, of course, when they don't.
>>>>>> Example: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the
>>>>>> right to a speedy and public trial". Yup, right there in the
>>>>>> Constitution.... but I read about people being held in jail for months
>>>>>> and months and months before their trial.
>>>>> Are you talking about the loonies that trespassed on the US Capitol
>>>>> grounds on Jan 6? Otherwise, the delays in trials are almost caused
>>>>> by defense lawyers. When a defendant asks for a speedy trial it
>>>>> usually results in a speedy trial.
>>>>>>>> Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Too many group thinkers in the USA. They are easily led, but luckily,
>>>>>>> they tend to flock together.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But isn't that pretty much a definition of "democracy"?
>>>>> Do you really think a gaggle of group thinking collectivists being
>>>>> easily led is the definition of democracy? Luckily, where I live
>>>>> (Florida) we enjoy more freedom than that. Parents actually have a say
>>>>> about what's taught in our schools.
>>>>
>>>> As long as it conforms to Ron Desantis' views. Or else he will remove your school board members and county prosecutors.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The 3/5 rule is much misunderstood. At formation the
>>> southern States wanted 'all persons' counted for House seats
>>> but not for the franchise. If a hard line had been drawn
>>> (and remember the vote was by no means universal then) the
>>> Constitution would not have been ratified and the USA would
>>> not have been born at all.
>> Well said..
>>
>> The founders were not a bunch of jovial back slappers sharing brews.
>> There was lots of dissension. I give them credit for putting together
>> a system that eventually became the envy of the rest of the world.
>>
>> It's also worth noting that there was lots of slavery in the north
>> back then, too.
>>> There's a tendency now to 'presentism', that is, judging
>>> historic events, decisions and men by standards of today.
>>> It's unhelpful, as with the recent gnashing of teeth over
>>> Lincoln's 'separated races' comment. Understand him in his
>>> time and he looks good, even great.
> I think that the only slave state in the north was North Carolina. Congress even passed anti-slavery laws in territories and new states. Most of the political power was in the north and they had turned against slavery which was nothing more than cheap labor. All of the industrial growth was in the north and people there wanted good jobs and not cheap labor. Most of the real slavery was in the cotton fields in Texas. The original colonies did not treat slaves badly. Originally the slave labor were Irish so this wasn't a case of making slave purely because they were a different race.
>
> I'm sure the stupid six will want to argue about Irish slave yet again after I showed them Irish slave auction notices. When you have stupid asses, they simply can't help from showing their worth.
>

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:09:54 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:52:09 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:45:34 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> >> So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.
>
> >Liebermann is so engaged in the belief that he actually knows something that he couldn't stop if he wanted to.
> For Andre:
> Select your disciple wisely or you will surely be judged by their
> actions.
>
WTF is this? Uncle Jeff's hoary old worthless nostrums? It's an opportunity to observe again that you have no wisdom, Jeff. You haven't even noticed that I do not collect disciples. Decent people are welcome to agree with me on some things, and disagree on others, as their own principles may point. You're the one whose associates are demonstrably vicious and vindictive and not decent people at all.
>
> For Tom:
> Thou shalt not post what thou also find unworthy of reading.
>
More pablum from someone whose judgement is already in serious question. Tom has been right on every major issue about the pandemic and vaccinations, and your little gang of ignorant louts have hounded him for it, offering as an excuse for your poor judgement, like a beggar in Calcutta offers his sores, that you believed the official line because it was the official line. Besides your attempts at bullying, your gross incompetence at it, such gross errors of judgement doesn't incline me ever to take your advice. Tom will, of course, speak for himself.
>
Jesus, save me from the advice of proven idiots.
>
Now piss off out of my thread.
>

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:57:08 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 8:44:26 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:40:40 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > > On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 20:27:01 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > >On 9/12/2022 7:55 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > >> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 3:27:27 AM UTC-5, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > > >>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:55:21 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 19:31:05 -0400, Catrike Rider
> > > >>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:22:12 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 08:32:22 -0400, Catrike Rider
> > > >>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 09:00:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 19:33:55 -0400, Catrike Rider
> > > >>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 16:22:17 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> > > >>>>>>>>> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Majority Believe It's Time to Impeach Biden
> > > >>>>>>>>>> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/09/10/poll-majority-want-biden-impeached-n2612849
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> I'm big on the man or woman in elected, appointed and inherited office being respected for the position, until he, she or it (see how woke I am) proves otherwise. I understand that impeachment is a political procedure, not a trial. However, strictly political impeachments, like the two foolish impeachments of Donald Trump, are simply stupid.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> But Joe Biden couldn't have done a better job of losing the respect of the nation of he tried.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> It seems that 53 percent of American voters agree with me.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> But what Biden has already done to ruin America's contentment and to cause Americans to see him for what he is, is not the decisive question the Republicans, likely to be in the majority in the House from next January, and perhaps in the Senate as well, must ask themselves when they debate the impeachment of Joe Biden. The true question is how muchdamage he can still do if they permit him to serve out the two and a quarter years of his first and now clearly only term.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> It might be smart for Republicans to let those disgruntled Democrats who're still decent people deal with Biden while they keep their own hands clean.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Nothing wrong with the Democrat Left that a spot of electroshock therapy and a stay in a padded cell won't cure.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> I'm sick and tired of the assholes in congress wasting time and money
> > > >>>>>>>>> on useless attempts to downgrade their opponents. I'm all for
> > > >>>>>>>>> congressional term limits.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> But would the electorate agree? Or would it be like the Long family,
> > > >>>>>>>> who have been in Louisiana politics for a hundred year, so far.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Wanting something to happen and expecting it to happen are two
> > > >>>>>>> different things.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> But... you live (and brag about it) in a democracy, which is
> > > >>>>>> essentially ruling by the majority and thus the individual becomes a
> > > >>>>>> meaningless in the equation of government.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Well, you see, the USA is a republic and we have a Constitution which
> > > >>>>> limits the government's powers and also has a list of actions the
> > > >>>>> government may not take against individuals.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Re the Constitution... but, as in the Abortion thing the constitution
> > > >>>> can be interpreted in more then one way, at different times and thus
> > > >>>> is not the iron clad document that some think it is.
> > > >>> The US Constitution does not mention anything about abortion, but yes,
> > > >>> interpretation is an issue. The SCOTUS once approved of slavery.
> > > >>
> > > >> The US Constitution explicitly describes allocating House representatives by counting all slaves as 3/5ths of a person for allocation purposes. Yes, the Supreme Court ruled on slavery. Dred Scott case. The 13th Amendment outlawing slavery was not passed until December 1865. So the Supreme Court probably had many cases concerning slaves before this point.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>> As for list of actions the government may not take against
> > > >>>> individuals. Well, yes... sort of. Except, of course, when they don't.
> > > >>>> Example: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the
> > > >>>> right to a speedy and public trial". Yup, right there in the
> > > >>>> Constitution.... but I read about people being held in jail for months
> > > >>>> and months and months before their trial.
> > > >>> Are you talking about the loonies that trespassed on the US Capitol
> > > >>> grounds on Jan 6? Otherwise, the delays in trials are almost caused
> > > >>> by defense lawyers. When a defendant asks for a speedy trial it
> > > >>> usually results in a speedy trial.
> > > >>>>>> Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you...
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Too many group thinkers in the USA. They are easily led, but luckily,
> > > >>>>> they tend to flock together.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> But isn't that pretty much a definition of "democracy"?
> > > >>> Do you really think a gaggle of group thinking collectivists being
> > > >>> easily led is the definition of democracy? Luckily, where I live
> > > >>> (Florida) we enjoy more freedom than that. Parents actually have a say
> > > >>> about what's taught in our schools.
> > > >>
> > > >> As long as it conforms to Ron Desantis' views. Or else he will remove your school board members and county prosecutors.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >The 3/5 rule is much misunderstood. At formation the
> > > >southern States wanted 'all persons' counted for House seats
> > > >but not for the franchise. If a hard line had been drawn
> > > >(and remember the vote was by no means universal then) the
> > > >Constitution would not have been ratified and the USA would
> > > >not have been born at all.
> > > Well said..
> > >
> > > The founders were not a bunch of jovial back slappers sharing brews.
> > > There was lots of dissension. I give them credit for putting together
> > > a system that eventually became the envy of the rest of the world.
> > >
> > > It's also worth noting that there was lots of slavery in the north
> > > back then, too.
> > > >There's a tendency now to 'presentism', that is, judging
> > > >historic events, decisions and men by standards of today.
> > > >It's unhelpful, as with the recent gnashing of teeth over
> > > >Lincoln's 'separated races' comment. Understand him in his
> > > >time and he looks good, even great.
> > I think that the only slave state in the north was North Carolina. Congress even passed anti-slavery laws in territories and new states. Most of the political power was in the north and they had turned against slavery which was nothing more than cheap labor. All of the industrial growth was in the north and people there wanted good jobs and not cheap labor. Most of the real slavery was in the cotton fields in Texas. The original colonies did not treat slaves badly. Originally the slave labor were Irish so this wasn't a case of making slave purely because they were a different race.
> >
> > I'm sure the stupid six will want to argue about Irish slave yet again after I showed them Irish slave auction notices. When you have stupid asses, they simply can't help from showing their worth.
> >
> The Irish were indentured labour, pretty near slavery, but there was an endpoint agreed by contract, in return for passage to the New World. Some were harshly treated by their master, but unlike the black slaves mainly from Africa, their servitude was not hereditary. Many of these indentured Irish went on to be substantial landowners in their own right, because in many places, as soon as they were freed men (or women -- quite a few known cases), they were entitled to a land grant like anyone else who could meet the requirements. -- AJ
> >

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:20:45 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/13/2022 2:44 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:40:40 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 20:27:01 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 9/12/2022 7:55 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 3:27:27 AM UTC-5, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >>>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:55:21 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 19:31:05 -0400, Catrike Rider
> >>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:22:12 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 08:32:22 -0400, Catrike Rider
> >>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 09:00:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 19:33:55 -0400, Catrike Rider
> >>>>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 16:22:17 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> >>>>>>>>>>> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Majority Believe It's Time to Impeach Biden
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/09/10/poll-majority-want-biden-impeached-n2612849
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm big on the man or woman in elected, appointed and inherited office being respected for the position, until he, she or it (see how woke I am) proves otherwise. I understand that impeachment is a political procedure, not a trial. However, strictly political impeachments, like the two foolish impeachments of Donald Trump, are simply stupid.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> But Joe Biden couldn't have done a better job of losing the respect of the nation of he tried.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that 53 percent of American voters agree with me.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> But what Biden has already done to ruin America's contentment and to cause Americans to see him for what he is, is not the decisive question the Republicans, likely to be in the majority in the House from next January, and perhaps in the Senate as well, must ask themselves when they debate the impeachment of Joe Biden. The true question is how muchdamage he can still do if they permit him to serve out the two and a quarter years of his first and now clearly only term.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> It might be smart for Republicans to let those disgruntled Democrats who're still decent people deal with Biden while they keep their own hands clean.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing wrong with the Democrat Left that a spot of electroshock therapy and a stay in a padded cell won't cure.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm sick and tired of the assholes in congress wasting time and money
> >>>>>>>>>>> on useless attempts to downgrade their opponents. I'm all for
> >>>>>>>>>>> congressional term limits.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> But would the electorate agree? Or would it be like the Long family,
> >>>>>>>>>> who have been in Louisiana politics for a hundred year, so far..
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Wanting something to happen and expecting it to happen are two
> >>>>>>>>> different things.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> But... you live (and brag about it) in a democracy, which is
> >>>>>>>> essentially ruling by the majority and thus the individual becomes a
> >>>>>>>> meaningless in the equation of government.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, you see, the USA is a republic and we have a Constitution which
> >>>>>>> limits the government's powers and also has a list of actions the
> >>>>>>> government may not take against individuals.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Re the Constitution... but, as in the Abortion thing the constitution
> >>>>>> can be interpreted in more then one way, at different times and thus
> >>>>>> is not the iron clad document that some think it is.
> >>>>> The US Constitution does not mention anything about abortion, but yes,
> >>>>> interpretation is an issue. The SCOTUS once approved of slavery.
> >>>>
> >>>> The US Constitution explicitly describes allocating House representatives by counting all slaves as 3/5ths of a person for allocation purposes. Yes, the Supreme Court ruled on slavery. Dred Scott case. The 13th Amendment outlawing slavery was not passed until December 1865. So the Supreme Court probably had many cases concerning slaves before this point.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> As for list of actions the government may not take against
> >>>>>> individuals. Well, yes... sort of. Except, of course, when they don't.
> >>>>>> Example: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the
> >>>>>> right to a speedy and public trial". Yup, right there in the
> >>>>>> Constitution.... but I read about people being held in jail for months
> >>>>>> and months and months before their trial.
> >>>>> Are you talking about the loonies that trespassed on the US Capitol
> >>>>> grounds on Jan 6? Otherwise, the delays in trials are almost caused
> >>>>> by defense lawyers. When a defendant asks for a speedy trial it
> >>>>> usually results in a speedy trial.
> >>>>>>>> Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you....
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Too many group thinkers in the USA. They are easily led, but luckily,
> >>>>>>> they tend to flock together.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But isn't that pretty much a definition of "democracy"?
> >>>>> Do you really think a gaggle of group thinking collectivists being
> >>>>> easily led is the definition of democracy? Luckily, where I live
> >>>>> (Florida) we enjoy more freedom than that. Parents actually have a say
> >>>>> about what's taught in our schools.
> >>>>
> >>>> As long as it conforms to Ron Desantis' views. Or else he will remove your school board members and county prosecutors.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The 3/5 rule is much misunderstood. At formation the
> >>> southern States wanted 'all persons' counted for House seats
> >>> but not for the franchise. If a hard line had been drawn
> >>> (and remember the vote was by no means universal then) the
> >>> Constitution would not have been ratified and the USA would
> >>> not have been born at all.
> >> Well said..
> >>
> >> The founders were not a bunch of jovial back slappers sharing brews.
> >> There was lots of dissension. I give them credit for putting together
> >> a system that eventually became the envy of the rest of the world.
> >>
> >> It's also worth noting that there was lots of slavery in the north
> >> back then, too.
> >>> There's a tendency now to 'presentism', that is, judging
> >>> historic events, decisions and men by standards of today.
> >>> It's unhelpful, as with the recent gnashing of teeth over
> >>> Lincoln's 'separated races' comment. Understand him in his
> >>> time and he looks good, even great.
> > I think that the only slave state in the north was North Carolina. Congress even passed anti-slavery laws in territories and new states. Most of the political power was in the north and they had turned against slavery which was nothing more than cheap labor. All of the industrial growth was in the north and people there wanted good jobs and not cheap labor. Most of the real slavery was in the cotton fields in Texas. The original colonies did not treat slaves badly. Originally the slave labor were Irish so this wasn't a case of making slave purely because they were a different race.
> >
> > I'm sure the stupid six will want to argue about Irish slave yet again after I showed them Irish slave auction notices. When you have stupid asses, they simply can't help from showing their worth.
> >
> North Carolina is not and was not 'north' by any standard.
>
> Of the original 13 States, Pennsylvania is the center- six
> are north and six south of PA, hence 'Keystone State'.
>
> The later surveyors Mason and Dixon established a line
> considered a divide between north and south. It describes
> the bulk of the border between Maryland and Pennsylvania.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
I once described it as the "Mason-Dixie Line", my literary agent's assistant immediately started whistling Dixie, and he laughed so hard, he pulled a muscle, and the usual humourless clowns came to look disapprovingly into his office. I've always held that unless you have a lotta laughs in a profession, it isn't worth going into. Most people have plenty of opportunities but lack the skill and the persistence and the balls to discover what those other opportunities may be.
>
Andre Jute
Dilettante.
>

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:29:56 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:09:54 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:52:09 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:45:34 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > >> So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.
> >
> > >Liebermann is so engaged in the belief that he actually knows something that he couldn't stop if he wanted to.
> > For Andre:
> > Select your disciple wisely or you will surely be judged by their
> > actions.
> >
> WTF is this? Uncle Jeff's hoary old worthless nostrums? It's an opportunity to observe again that you have no wisdom, Jeff. You haven't even noticed that I do not collect disciples. Decent people are welcome to agree with me on some things, and disagree on others, as their own principles may point.. You're the one whose associates are demonstrably vicious and vindictive and not decent people at all.
> >
> > For Tom:
> > Thou shalt not post what thou also find unworthy of reading.
> >
> More pablum from someone whose judgement is already in serious question. Tom has been right on every major issue about the pandemic and vaccinations, and your little gang of ignorant louts have hounded him for it, offering as an excuse for your poor judgement, like a beggar in Calcutta offers his sores, that you believed the official line because it was the official line.. Besides your attempts at bullying, your gross incompetence at it, such gross errors of judgement doesn't incline me ever to take your advice. Tom will, of course, speak for himself.
> >
> Jesus, save me from the advice of proven idiots.
> >
> Now piss off out of my thread.
> >
Liebermann as I said, simply now believes so deeply in himself despite the fact that the threw away his education and somehow pretends that he was successful. Imagine having an EE degree and repairing printers for a living just 25 miles from silicon valley!

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 14:04:41 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:59:22 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 09:45:32 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.
>>
>> Welcome to my discussion. Unlike your threads, anyone is welcome to
>> mine. As for stoping and thinking, I never stop thinking.

>Really, yours?

Nope. Not mine. For what little it's worth to you, I don't recognize
your right to disallow comments in "your" threads. RBT is a newsgroup
which does not have any moderation. You are not a moderator of RBT.
If you post from Google Groups, you are expected to follow Googles
Groups guidelines, but nothing else:
<https://support.google.com/groups/answer/4561696?hl=en>
If require the protection afforded by moderation, it's easy enough to
start your own moderated newsgroup or Google Group. You want control?
Start by controlling yourself.

I'm also not interested in following your edicts when "your" threads
are commonly used as launch points for attacks on various individuals.
I haven't seen any postings by you suggesting that Tom refrain from
attacking others from "your" threads. Yet, he's done it many times.
If you can't keep to the topic you initiate in "your" threads, please
don't expect anyone else to do the same. When someone is attacked
from your thread, expect a response from them and from their
supporters. Self-defense if you will. Even if everyone caved in to
your unenforceable demand to stay out of "your" threads, you would
likely find something else to complain or argue about. You are like
an arsonist, where the fun is not in starting or watching the fire,
but rather in watching everyone run around in panic trying to deal
with the results of the fire. You like strife. If there's no strife
available, you create it. Please return to your mythical 30,000
member writers mailing list and play your games there. Much as I like
your Utopia Kranich build, it doesn't compensate for any of your
comments in RBT.

>Tsch! This is my thread too, dickhead. Check the first post. If
>you want to discuss naming conventions of hick towns in Ohio,
>fuck off, do it elsewhere.

If you want to moderate "your" threads, please establish your own
newsgroup or forum. I prefer unmoderated Usenet over blogs, mailing
lists, forums, or other moderation infested forums. I've been on both
sides of the moderation issue and long ago decided that Usenet was the
least of the available evils. The major benefit to me are the lack of
control freaks, like you.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

>
Send an executive summary, will you. I have other things to do than stroke the hurt feeling of overgrown teenagers.
>
On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 11:41:24 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 14:04:41 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:59:22 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 09:45:32 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> >> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.
> >>
> >> Welcome to my discussion. Unlike your threads, anyone is welcome to
> >> mine. As for stoping and thinking, I never stop thinking.
>
> >Really, yours?
> Nope. Not mine. For what little it's worth to you, I don't recognize
> your right to disallow comments in "your" threads. RBT is a newsgroup
> which does not have any moderation. You are not a moderator of RBT.
> If you post from Google Groups, you are expected to follow Googles
> Groups guidelines, but nothing else:
> <https://support.google.com/groups/answer/4561696?hl=en>
> If require the protection afforded by moderation, it's easy enough to
> start your own moderated newsgroup or Google Group. You want control?
> Start by controlling yourself.
>
> I'm also not interested in following your edicts when "your" threads
> are commonly used as launch points for attacks on various individuals.
> I haven't seen any postings by you suggesting that Tom refrain from
> attacking others from "your" threads. Yet, he's done it many times.
> If you can't keep to the topic you initiate in "your" threads, please
> don't expect anyone else to do the same. When someone is attacked
> from your thread, expect a response from them and from their
> supporters. Self-defense if you will. Even if everyone caved in to
> your unenforceable demand to stay out of "your" threads, you would
> likely find something else to complain or argue about. You are like
> an arsonist, where the fun is not in starting or watching the fire,
> but rather in watching everyone run around in panic trying to deal
> with the results of the fire. You like strife. If there's no strife
> available, you create it. Please return to your mythical 30,000
> member writers mailing list and play your games there. Much as I like
> your Utopia Kranich build, it doesn't compensate for any of your
> comments in RBT.
> >Tsch! This is my thread too, dickhead. Check the first post. If
> >you want to discuss naming conventions of hick towns in Ohio,
> >fuck off, do it elsewhere.
> If you want to moderate "your" threads, please establish your own
> newsgroup or forum. I prefer unmoderated Usenet over blogs, mailing
> lists, forums, or other moderation infested forums. I've been on both
> sides of the moderation issue and long ago decided that Usenet was the
> least of the available evils. The major benefit to me are the lack of
> control freaks, like you.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:44:26 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:40:40 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 20:27:01 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> > >On 9/12/2022 7:55 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 3:27:27 AM UTC-5, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > >>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:55:21 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 19:31:05 -0400, Catrike Rider
> > >>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:22:12 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 08:32:22 -0400, Catrike Rider
> > >>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 09:00:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 19:33:55 -0400, Catrike Rider
> > >>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 16:22:17 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> > >>>>>>>>> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Majority Believe It's Time to Impeach Biden
> > >>>>>>>>>> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/09/10/poll-majority-want-biden-impeached-n2612849
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> I'm big on the man or woman in elected, appointed and inherited office being respected for the position, until he, she or it (see how woke I am) proves otherwise. I understand that impeachment is a political procedure, not a trial. However, strictly political impeachments, like the two foolish impeachments of Donald Trump, are simply stupid.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> But Joe Biden couldn't have done a better job of losing the respect of the nation of he tried.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> It seems that 53 percent of American voters agree with me.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> But what Biden has already done to ruin America's contentment and to cause Americans to see him for what he is, is not the decisive question the Republicans, likely to be in the majority in the House from next January, and perhaps in the Senate as well, must ask themselves when they debate the impeachment of Joe Biden. The true question is how muchdamage he can still do if they permit him to serve out the two and a quarter years of his first and now clearly only term.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> It might be smart for Republicans to let those disgruntled Democrats who're still decent people deal with Biden while they keep their own hands clean.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute
> > >>>>>>>>>> Nothing wrong with the Democrat Left that a spot of electroshock therapy and a stay in a padded cell won't cure.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I'm sick and tired of the assholes in congress wasting time and money
> > >>>>>>>>> on useless attempts to downgrade their opponents. I'm all for
> > >>>>>>>>> congressional term limits.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> But would the electorate agree? Or would it be like the Long family,
> > >>>>>>>> who have been in Louisiana politics for a hundred year, so far..
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Wanting something to happen and expecting it to happen are two
> > >>>>>>> different things.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> But... you live (and brag about it) in a democracy, which is
> > >>>>>> essentially ruling by the majority and thus the individual becomes a
> > >>>>>> meaningless in the equation of government.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Well, you see, the USA is a republic and we have a Constitution which
> > >>>>> limits the government's powers and also has a list of actions the
> > >>>>> government may not take against individuals.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Re the Constitution... but, as in the Abortion thing the constitution
> > >>>> can be interpreted in more then one way, at different times and thus
> > >>>> is not the iron clad document that some think it is.
> > >>> The US Constitution does not mention anything about abortion, but yes,
> > >>> interpretation is an issue. The SCOTUS once approved of slavery.
> > >>
> > >> The US Constitution explicitly describes allocating House representatives by counting all slaves as 3/5ths of a person for allocation purposes. Yes, the Supreme Court ruled on slavery. Dred Scott case. The 13th Amendment outlawing slavery was not passed until December 1865. So the Supreme Court probably had many cases concerning slaves before this point.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>> As for list of actions the government may not take against
> > >>>> individuals. Well, yes... sort of. Except, of course, when they don't.
> > >>>> Example: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the
> > >>>> right to a speedy and public trial". Yup, right there in the
> > >>>> Constitution.... but I read about people being held in jail for months
> > >>>> and months and months before their trial.
> > >>> Are you talking about the loonies that trespassed on the US Capitol
> > >>> grounds on Jan 6? Otherwise, the delays in trials are almost caused
> > >>> by defense lawyers. When a defendant asks for a speedy trial it
> > >>> usually results in a speedy trial.
> > >>>>>> Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you....
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Too many group thinkers in the USA. They are easily led, but luckily,
> > >>>>> they tend to flock together.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> But isn't that pretty much a definition of "democracy"?
> > >>> Do you really think a gaggle of group thinking collectivists being
> > >>> easily led is the definition of democracy? Luckily, where I live
> > >>> (Florida) we enjoy more freedom than that. Parents actually have a say
> > >>> about what's taught in our schools.
> > >>
> > >> As long as it conforms to Ron Desantis' views. Or else he will remove your school board members and county prosecutors.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >The 3/5 rule is much misunderstood. At formation the
> > >southern States wanted 'all persons' counted for House seats
> > >but not for the franchise. If a hard line had been drawn
> > >(and remember the vote was by no means universal then) the
> > >Constitution would not have been ratified and the USA would
> > >not have been born at all.
> > Well said..
> >
> > The founders were not a bunch of jovial back slappers sharing brews.
> > There was lots of dissension. I give them credit for putting together
> > a system that eventually became the envy of the rest of the world.
> >
> > It's also worth noting that there was lots of slavery in the north
> > back then, too.
> > >There's a tendency now to 'presentism', that is, judging
> > >historic events, decisions and men by standards of today.
> > >It's unhelpful, as with the recent gnashing of teeth over
> > >Lincoln's 'separated races' comment. Understand him in his
> > >time and he looks good, even great.
> I think that the only slave state in the north was North Carolina.

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 16:20:38 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/13/2022 2:44 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:40:40 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 20:27:01 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/12/2022 7:55 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 3:27:27 AM UTC-5, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:55:21 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 19:31:05 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:22:12 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 08:32:22 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 09:00:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 19:33:55 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>>>>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 16:22:17 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>>>>>>>>>>>> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Majority Believe It's Time to Impeach Biden
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/09/10/poll-majority-want-biden-impeached-n2612849
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm big on the man or woman in elected, appointed and inherited office being respected for the position, until he, she or it (see how woke I am) proves otherwise. I understand that impeachment is a political procedure, not a trial. However, strictly political impeachments, like the two foolish impeachments of Donald Trump, are simply stupid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But Joe Biden couldn't have done a better job of losing the respect of the nation of he tried.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that 53 percent of American voters agree with me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But what Biden has already done to ruin America's contentment and to cause Americans to see him for what he is, is not the decisive question the Republicans, likely to be in the majority in the House from next January, and perhaps in the Senate as well, must ask themselves when they debate the impeachment of Joe Biden. The true question is how muchdamage he can still do if they permit him to serve out the two and a quarter years of his first and now clearly only term.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It might be smart for Republicans to let those disgruntled Democrats who're still decent people deal with Biden while they keep their own hands clean.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing wrong with the Democrat Left that a spot of electroshock therapy and a stay in a padded cell won't cure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sick and tired of the assholes in congress wasting time and money
>>>>>>>>>>>> on useless attempts to downgrade their opponents. I'm all for
>>>>>>>>>>>> congressional term limits.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But would the electorate agree? Or would it be like the Long family,
>>>>>>>>>>> who have been in Louisiana politics for a hundred year, so far.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wanting something to happen and expecting it to happen are two
>>>>>>>>>> different things.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But... you live (and brag about it) in a democracy, which is
>>>>>>>>> essentially ruling by the majority and thus the individual becomes a
>>>>>>>>> meaningless in the equation of government.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, you see, the USA is a republic and we have a Constitution which
>>>>>>>> limits the government's powers and also has a list of actions the
>>>>>>>> government may not take against individuals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Re the Constitution... but, as in the Abortion thing the constitution
>>>>>>> can be interpreted in more then one way, at different times and thus
>>>>>>> is not the iron clad document that some think it is.
>>>>>> The US Constitution does not mention anything about abortion, but yes,
>>>>>> interpretation is an issue. The SCOTUS once approved of slavery.
>>>>>
>>>>> The US Constitution explicitly describes allocating House representatives by counting all slaves as 3/5ths of a person for allocation purposes. Yes, the Supreme Court ruled on slavery. Dred Scott case. The 13th Amendment outlawing slavery was not passed until December 1865. So the Supreme Court probably had many cases concerning slaves before this point.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for list of actions the government may not take against
>>>>>>> individuals. Well, yes... sort of. Except, of course, when they don't.
>>>>>>> Example: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the
>>>>>>> right to a speedy and public trial". Yup, right there in the
>>>>>>> Constitution.... but I read about people being held in jail for months
>>>>>>> and months and months before their trial.
>>>>>> Are you talking about the loonies that trespassed on the US Capitol
>>>>>> grounds on Jan 6? Otherwise, the delays in trials are almost caused
>>>>>> by defense lawyers. When a defendant asks for a speedy trial it
>>>>>> usually results in a speedy trial.
>>>>>>>>> Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Too many group thinkers in the USA. They are easily led, but luckily,
>>>>>>>> they tend to flock together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But isn't that pretty much a definition of "democracy"?
>>>>>> Do you really think a gaggle of group thinking collectivists being
>>>>>> easily led is the definition of democracy? Luckily, where I live
>>>>>> (Florida) we enjoy more freedom than that. Parents actually have a say
>>>>>> about what's taught in our schools.
>>>>>
>>>>> As long as it conforms to Ron Desantis' views. Or else he will remove your school board members and county prosecutors.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The 3/5 rule is much misunderstood. At formation the
>>>> southern States wanted 'all persons' counted for House seats
>>>> but not for the franchise. If a hard line had been drawn
>>>> (and remember the vote was by no means universal then) the
>>>> Constitution would not have been ratified and the USA would
>>>> not have been born at all.
>>> Well said..
>>>
>>> The founders were not a bunch of jovial back slappers sharing brews.
>>> There was lots of dissension. I give them credit for putting together
>>> a system that eventually became the envy of the rest of the world.
>>>
>>> It's also worth noting that there was lots of slavery in the north
>>> back then, too.
>>>> There's a tendency now to 'presentism', that is, judging
>>>> historic events, decisions and men by standards of today.
>>>> It's unhelpful, as with the recent gnashing of teeth over
>>>> Lincoln's 'separated races' comment. Understand him in his
>>>> time and he looks good, even great.
>> I think that the only slave state in the north was North Carolina. Congress even passed anti-slavery laws in territories and new states. Most of the political power was in the north and they had turned against slavery which was nothing more than cheap labor. All of the industrial growth was in the north and people there wanted good jobs and not cheap labor. Most of the real slavery was in the cotton fields in Texas. The original colonies did not treat slaves badly. Originally the slave labor were Irish so this wasn't a case of making slave purely because they were a different race.
>>
>> I'm sure the stupid six will want to argue about Irish slave yet again after I showed them Irish slave auction notices. When you have stupid asses, they simply can't help from showing their worth.
>>
>
>North Carolina is not and was not 'north' by any standard.
>
North Carolina joined the Confederacy on May 20, 1861 so during the
Civil War period it was considered a "Southern" state.

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:44:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:40:40 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 20:27:01 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> >On 9/12/2022 7:55 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 3:27:27 AM UTC-5, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:55:21 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 19:31:05 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> >>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:22:12 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 08:32:22 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> >>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 09:00:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 19:33:55 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> >>>>>>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 16:22:17 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>> >>>>>>>>> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Majority Believe It's Time to Impeach Biden
>> >>>>>>>>>> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/09/10/poll-majority-want-biden-impeached-n2612849
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm big on the man or woman in elected, appointed and inherited office being respected for the position, until he, she or it (see how woke I am) proves otherwise. I understand that impeachment is a political procedure, not a trial. However, strictly political impeachments, like the two foolish impeachments of Donald Trump, are simply stupid.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> But Joe Biden couldn't have done a better job of losing the respect of the nation of he tried.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> It seems that 53 percent of American voters agree with me.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> But what Biden has already done to ruin America's contentment and to cause Americans to see him for what he is, is not the decisive question the Republicans, likely to be in the majority in the House from next January, and perhaps in the Senate as well, must ask themselves when they debate the impeachment of Joe Biden. The true question is how muchdamage he can still do if they permit him to serve out the two and a quarter years of his first and now clearly only term.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> It might be smart for Republicans to let those disgruntled Democrats who're still decent people deal with Biden while they keep their own hands clean.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Andre Jute
>> >>>>>>>>>> Nothing wrong with the Democrat Left that a spot of electroshock therapy and a stay in a padded cell won't cure.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I'm sick and tired of the assholes in congress wasting time and money
>> >>>>>>>>> on useless attempts to downgrade their opponents. I'm all for
>> >>>>>>>>> congressional term limits.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> But would the electorate agree? Or would it be like the Long family,
>> >>>>>>>> who have been in Louisiana politics for a hundred year, so far.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Wanting something to happen and expecting it to happen are two
>> >>>>>>> different things.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> But... you live (and brag about it) in a democracy, which is
>> >>>>>> essentially ruling by the majority and thus the individual becomes a
>> >>>>>> meaningless in the equation of government.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Well, you see, the USA is a republic and we have a Constitution which
>> >>>>> limits the government's powers and also has a list of actions the
>> >>>>> government may not take against individuals.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Re the Constitution... but, as in the Abortion thing the constitution
>> >>>> can be interpreted in more then one way, at different times and thus
>> >>>> is not the iron clad document that some think it is.
>> >>> The US Constitution does not mention anything about abortion, but yes,
>> >>> interpretation is an issue. The SCOTUS once approved of slavery.
>> >>
>> >> The US Constitution explicitly describes allocating House representatives by counting all slaves as 3/5ths of a person for allocation purposes. Yes, the Supreme Court ruled on slavery. Dred Scott case. The 13th Amendment outlawing slavery was not passed until December 1865. So the Supreme Court probably had many cases concerning slaves before this point.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>> As for list of actions the government may not take against
>> >>>> individuals. Well, yes... sort of. Except, of course, when they don't.
>> >>>> Example: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the
>> >>>> right to a speedy and public trial". Yup, right there in the
>> >>>> Constitution.... but I read about people being held in jail for months
>> >>>> and months and months before their trial.
>> >>> Are you talking about the loonies that trespassed on the US Capitol
>> >>> grounds on Jan 6? Otherwise, the delays in trials are almost caused
>> >>> by defense lawyers. When a defendant asks for a speedy trial it
>> >>> usually results in a speedy trial.
>> >>>>>> Now, if you can get, say, 10,000 of your mates to agree with you...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Too many group thinkers in the USA. They are easily led, but luckily,
>> >>>>> they tend to flock together.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> But isn't that pretty much a definition of "democracy"?
>> >>> Do you really think a gaggle of group thinking collectivists being
>> >>> easily led is the definition of democracy? Luckily, where I live
>> >>> (Florida) we enjoy more freedom than that. Parents actually have a say
>> >>> about what's taught in our schools.
>> >>
>> >> As long as it conforms to Ron Desantis' views. Or else he will remove your school board members and county prosecutors.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >The 3/5 rule is much misunderstood. At formation the
>> >southern States wanted 'all persons' counted for House seats
>> >but not for the franchise. If a hard line had been drawn
>> >(and remember the vote was by no means universal then) the
>> >Constitution would not have been ratified and the USA would
>> >not have been born at all.
>> Well said..
>>
>> The founders were not a bunch of jovial back slappers sharing brews.
>> There was lots of dissension. I give them credit for putting together
>> a system that eventually became the envy of the rest of the world.
>>
>> It's also worth noting that there was lots of slavery in the north
>> back then, too.
>> >There's a tendency now to 'presentism', that is, judging
>> >historic events, decisions and men by standards of today.
>> >It's unhelpful, as with the recent gnashing of teeth over
>> >Lincoln's 'separated races' comment. Understand him in his
>> >time and he looks good, even great.
>I think that the only slave state in the north was North Carolina. Congress even passed anti-slavery laws in territories and new states. Most of the political power was in the north and they had turned against slavery which was nothing more than cheap labor. All of the industrial growth was in the north and people there wanted good jobs and not cheap labor. Most of the real slavery was in the cotton fields in Texas. The original colonies did not treat slaves badly. Originally the slave labor were Irish so this wasn't a case of making slave purely because they were a different race.
>
>I'm sure the stupid six will want to argue about Irish slave yet
again after I showed them Irish slave auction notices. When you have
stupid asses, they simply can't help from showing their worth.

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:41:24 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> If you want to moderate "your" threads, please establish your own
> newsgroup or forum.

I thought Jute claimed he'd already done that - some sort of group with 30,000 members, if I
correctly recall Funkmaster's description.

Apparently those 30,000 don't post enough to keep Jute occupied, so his sewage overflows into
this group. It's almost as if that group doesn't exist! :-)

(I wouldn't have bothered posting this if Jute weren't annoyed by people in "his" threads. Hah!)

- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 14:29:55 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:09:54 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:52:09 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:45:34 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>> >> So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.
>>
>> >Liebermann is so engaged in the belief that he actually knows something that he couldn't stop if he wanted to.

>> For Andre:
>> Select your disciple wisely or you will surely be judged by their
>> actions.

>WTF is this?

So much for trying to be diplomatic and subtle. Maybe a quote will
penetrate the cloud that surrounds you:
"A man is known by the company he keeps" (Aesop, 51 BCE)

At one time, I was rather impressed by your knowledge, experience,
contacts, projects, writing style and command of facts. Today, all
that's left is your writing style, which is still impressive and which
I cannot equal, much less match. You've given me reason to question
everything else. The latest is your 30,000 member writing group,
which has yet to materialize. Looking back, I've noticed that much of
your background, references and claims are untraceable. They either
involve important people, who are inaccessible, or foreign
personalities who cannot easily be found. A Google search will return
your numerous books, paints, graphic design, vintage audio, some
mailing lists, your Utopia Kranich, and nothing else. Did I miss
anything? That's quite good for a common pedestrian life. What's
missing are all the adventures and important connections. For
example:
<https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/AndreJute>
Where are the references to being an intelligence officer, racing
driver, advertising executive, management consultant, performing arts
critic and professional gambler? Where is evidence of 15 years of a
classical music syndicated column? I'm slightly into classical music
and I've never seen your name mentioned as a critic. If you wrote
under a nom de plume, why hide it now? In other words, you appear to
be at least a partial fake and to me, a disappointment.

I blundered across this today:
Andre Jute FAQ v1.1
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZrHjeXZ53b8>

>Uncle Jeff's hoary old worthless nostrums?

My nostrum to cure you contains a large dose of honesty and truth. Try
it for a while and you'll eventually feel better.

>It's an opportunity to observe again that you have no wisdom, Jeff.

There are many definitions of wisdom. The one I practice is:
"Wisdom is one's knowledge of what is true and real, one's good
judgment, and the ability to learn from one's experiences and
mistakes."
Several times in RBT, I've mentioned that my criteria for judging
people is that willingness and ability to learn new things. I guess
wisdom might be considered an expansion on that. For you, it goes
back to my warning about being careful with whom you associate. If
I'm lacking in wisdom, you wisdom has totally failed by accepting Tom
as a disciple. If you believe that similar political beliefs are a
replacement for Tom's shortcomings, you are wrong and can have what's
left of my sympathy.

>You haven't even noticed that I do not collect disciples.

That's true. So far, you have only collected one disciple, Tom.

>Decent people are welcome to agree with me on some things, and
>disagree on others, as their own principles may point.

I've read what you think of those who disagree with you. I see a
mixture of personal criticism, irrelevant diversions into obscure
subjects and impressive rhetoric, served with a topping of profanity
and a pinch of name dropping. Other than Tom, those who agree, seem a
bit puzzled, which I don't understand.

>You're the one whose associates are demonstrably vicious and
>vindictive and not decent people at all.

Associates? There's no conspiracy or association here. I haven't
exchanged email with any of those whom you detest organizing a
concentrated attack on those who agree with your politics. It's a few
individuals, who apparently enjoy debunking Tom's lies. At least
that's my idea of fun. It's like a detective story, where the
perpetrator of a crime is known to everyone, but where there's no easy
way to prove it. With some effort and plenty of research, it's fairly
easy for anyone with an open mind to see that Tom has been almost 100%
wrong on literally every point that can be researched. If you fail to
see that, you're intentionally ignoring the obvious and supporting
someone who is demonstratively and consistently wrong on about
everything.

>> For Tom:
>> Thou shalt not post what thou also find unworthy of reading.

>More pablum from someone whose judgement is already in serious
>question.

My comment was for your disciple but as the leader of the cult, you
are allowed to speak on his behalf.

>Tom has been right on every major issue about the pandemic and
>vaccinations,

Really? I caught 3 or 4 references to amazing facts based on data
sifted out of the crowd sourced CDC VAERS database. I also caught you
doing it once. It's easy to be fooled by amazing facts once, but
three time? While fact checking isn't perfect, it has uncovered
problems with literally every URL or reference that Tom has provided
to substantiate his points (usually an attack on Dr Faucci). From
memory, that would be about 5 to 10 URL's since Tom normally doesn't
provide any backup to his claims.

>and your little gang of ignorant louts have hounded him for it,
>offering as an excuse for your poor judgement, like a beggar in
>Calcutta offers his sores, that you believed the official line
>because it was the official line.

Little as in belittle? Tom and you try to belittle your critics, but
nobody else does. However, it doesn't matter. My stature has nothing
to do with the validity of my comments and even less to do with the
validity of your or Tom's. Kindly refrain from you wordy and
elaborate personal attacks and instead try to deal with the issues in
question.

>Besides your attempts at bullying, your gross incompetence at it,
>such gross errors of judgement doesn't incline me ever to take your
>advice.

Bullying? How can I be little and at the same time a big bad bully?
Some consistency in name calling would be helpful here.

In the past, I've pointed to my description of various characters
commonly found on Usenet. You've ignore it, as is your right.
However, one of the characters fits you nicely:

<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/genesis.txt>
"In the distance, the judges watch from afar. While not concerned
with the relative merits of the discussion, they serve to pass
judgment upon those that contribute and remind them of their station
in life. Politics, logic, answers, and even the defacing of the
argument are of little concern to the judges. What matters is the
value of the contributors, who need to be reminded that they are
idiots, fools or members of the wrong tribe, thus invalidating their
opinions and comments."

>Tom will, of course, speak for himself.

As is his right, even though you seem to be representing him in this
discussion.

>Jesus, save me from the advice of proven idiots.

The advice was originally from Aesop. Do you consider him to be a
proven idiot?

>Now piss off out of my thread.

<http://thebookshelf2015.blogspot.com/2018/08/quotes-on-profanity.html>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 18:55:53 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:41:24 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> If you want to moderate "your" threads, please establish your own
>> newsgroup or forum.
>
>I thought Jute claimed he'd already done that - some sort of group with 30,000 members, if I
>correctly recall Funkmaster's description.
>
>Apparently those 30,000 don't post enough to keep Jute occupied, so his sewage overflows into
>this group. It's almost as if that group doesn't exist! :-)
>
>(I wouldn't have bothered posting this if Jute weren't annoyed by people in "his" threads. Hah!)
>
>- Frank Krygowski

I have found the perfect way to keep Andre's "thread(s)" pure and
unsullied.

Ignore him.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 14:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>Liebermann as I said, simply now believes so deeply in himself despite the fact that the threw away his education and somehow pretends that he was successful.

Inaccurate, as usual. I guess dying with a positive bank balance is
considered being successful these days. Prior to the recent
inflationary trend, that was highly likely. Now, I'm not so sure. So,
I'm back to working at 74 years old.

>Imagine having an EE degree

You're the one who has to imagine having a college degree.
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/diploma-jeffl.jpg>
Please try not to salivate on your keyboard.

>and repairing printers for a living

Fixing printers has been an enjoyable sideline for me. I hate inkjets
and really like laser printers and plotters. I've made money fixing
higher end printers, but not as much as I've made fixing computers.
The sad part is that most of today's computers are not repairable.
Fortunately, the big, heavy and complicated office laser printers are
being displaced by smaller and cheaper AIO laser print, copy, fax and
scan machines. They are cheaper, easier to handle, fairly simple, and
potentially profitable for me to repair. Meanwhile, I'm getting work
fixing chainsaws, motorized garden equipment, generators and power
tools. These probably won't make me rich, but I would rather be
working than worrying.

>just 25 miles from silicon valley!

More like 35 miles one way. I did that commute for about 12 years.
Driving over "the hill" is white knuckle driving at its worst. My
house to KSJO airport, near where I was working:
<https://goo.gl/maps/9v6riij2twWwb4YR6>
When there was no traffic, it's about an hour. In typical traffic,
1.5 hrs. If there was an accident, add 30 mins. I could easily spend
half my working day on the road. At the time, I was about 25 to 35
years old. I could handle the stress and the hours fairly well. If I
tried that commute today, I probably wouldn't survive a week.

Drivel: Monday's repair job was CAT5e versus a rat. The rat won:
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/b9reTnCNh5FrpM2e7>
Actually, I didn't find that mess. I just re-routed the CAT5e cables,
added new connectors, and plugged the conduit with whatever I could
find to make it rat resistant. No EE degree required and a 10 minute
commute.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 2:55:55 AM UTC+1, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:41:24 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > If you want to moderate "your" threads, please establish your own
> > newsgroup or forum.
> I thought Jute claimed he'd already done that - some sort of group with 30,000 members, if I
> correctly recall Funkmaster's description.
>
> Apparently those 30,000 don't post enough to keep Jute occupied, so his sewage overflows into
> this group. It's almost as if that group doesn't exist! :-)
>
> (I wouldn't have bothered posting this if Jute weren't annoyed by people in "his" threads. Hah!)
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>
Thanks, Frankie-boy. Since you insist on posting in thread headlined "Majority Believe It's Time to Impeach Biden", I shall assume that you agree with the majority. Welcome to the sensible people.

>
Come on, Jeff! I asked for an executive summary, not a three-mile scroll of whining, which is what I assume this is. I'm not your mother, man, and while you run with the RBT Scum, I don't care shit what you think. So make it short or get lost. Nothing further from me in this post.
>
On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 3:48:09 AM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 14:29:55 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:09:54 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:52:09 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:45:34 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> >> >> So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.
> >>
> >> >Liebermann is so engaged in the belief that he actually knows something that he couldn't stop if he wanted to.
>
> >> For Andre:
> >> Select your disciple wisely or you will surely be judged by their
> >> actions.
>
> >WTF is this?
> So much for trying to be diplomatic and subtle. Maybe a quote will
> penetrate the cloud that surrounds you:
> "A man is known by the company he keeps" (Aesop, 51 BCE)
>
> At one time, I was rather impressed by your knowledge, experience,
> contacts, projects, writing style and command of facts. Today, all
> that's left is your writing style, which is still impressive and which
> I cannot equal, much less match. You've given me reason to question
> everything else. The latest is your 30,000 member writing group,
> which has yet to materialize. Looking back, I've noticed that much of
> your background, references and claims are untraceable. They either
> involve important people, who are inaccessible, or foreign
> personalities who cannot easily be found. A Google search will return
> your numerous books, paints, graphic design, vintage audio, some
> mailing lists, your Utopia Kranich, and nothing else. Did I miss
> anything? That's quite good for a common pedestrian life. What's
> missing are all the adventures and important connections. For
> example:
> <https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/AndreJute>
> Where are the references to being an intelligence officer, racing
> driver, advertising executive, management consultant, performing arts
> critic and professional gambler? Where is evidence of 15 years of a
> classical music syndicated column? I'm slightly into classical music
> and I've never seen your name mentioned as a critic. If you wrote
> under a nom de plume, why hide it now? In other words, you appear to
> be at least a partial fake and to me, a disappointment.
>
> I blundered across this today:
> Andre Jute FAQ v1.1
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZrHjeXZ53b8>
> >Uncle Jeff's hoary old worthless nostrums?
> My nostrum to cure you contains a large dose of honesty and truth. Try
> it for a while and you'll eventually feel better.
> >It's an opportunity to observe again that you have no wisdom, Jeff.
> There are many definitions of wisdom. The one I practice is:
> "Wisdom is one's knowledge of what is true and real, one's good
> judgment, and the ability to learn from one's experiences and
> mistakes."
> Several times in RBT, I've mentioned that my criteria for judging
> people is that willingness and ability to learn new things. I guess
> wisdom might be considered an expansion on that. For you, it goes
> back to my warning about being careful with whom you associate. If
> I'm lacking in wisdom, you wisdom has totally failed by accepting Tom
> as a disciple. If you believe that similar political beliefs are a
> replacement for Tom's shortcomings, you are wrong and can have what's
> left of my sympathy.
> >You haven't even noticed that I do not collect disciples.
> That's true. So far, you have only collected one disciple, Tom.
> >Decent people are welcome to agree with me on some things, and
> >disagree on others, as their own principles may point.
> I've read what you think of those who disagree with you. I see a
> mixture of personal criticism, irrelevant diversions into obscure
> subjects and impressive rhetoric, served with a topping of profanity
> and a pinch of name dropping. Other than Tom, those who agree, seem a
> bit puzzled, which I don't understand.
> >You're the one whose associates are demonstrably vicious and
> >vindictive and not decent people at all.
> Associates? There's no conspiracy or association here. I haven't
> exchanged email with any of those whom you detest organizing a
> concentrated attack on those who agree with your politics. It's a few
> individuals, who apparently enjoy debunking Tom's lies. At least
> that's my idea of fun. It's like a detective story, where the
> perpetrator of a crime is known to everyone, but where there's no easy
> way to prove it. With some effort and plenty of research, it's fairly
> easy for anyone with an open mind to see that Tom has been almost 100%
> wrong on literally every point that can be researched. If you fail to
> see that, you're intentionally ignoring the obvious and supporting
> someone who is demonstratively and consistently wrong on about
> everything.
> >> For Tom:
> >> Thou shalt not post what thou also find unworthy of reading.
>
> >More pablum from someone whose judgement is already in serious
> >question.
> My comment was for your disciple but as the leader of the cult, you
> are allowed to speak on his behalf.
> >Tom has been right on every major issue about the pandemic and
> >vaccinations,
> Really? I caught 3 or 4 references to amazing facts based on data
> sifted out of the crowd sourced CDC VAERS database. I also caught you
> doing it once. It's easy to be fooled by amazing facts once, but
> three time? While fact checking isn't perfect, it has uncovered
> problems with literally every URL or reference that Tom has provided
> to substantiate his points (usually an attack on Dr Faucci). From
> memory, that would be about 5 to 10 URL's since Tom normally doesn't
> provide any backup to his claims.
> >and your little gang of ignorant louts have hounded him for it,
> >offering as an excuse for your poor judgement, like a beggar in
> >Calcutta offers his sores, that you believed the official line
> >because it was the official line.
> Little as in belittle? Tom and you try to belittle your critics, but
> nobody else does. However, it doesn't matter. My stature has nothing
> to do with the validity of my comments and even less to do with the
> validity of your or Tom's. Kindly refrain from you wordy and
> elaborate personal attacks and instead try to deal with the issues in
> question.
> >Besides your attempts at bullying, your gross incompetence at it,
> >such gross errors of judgement doesn't incline me ever to take your
> >advice.
> Bullying? How can I be little and at the same time a big bad bully?
> Some consistency in name calling would be helpful here.
>
> In the past, I've pointed to my description of various characters
> commonly found on Usenet. You've ignore it, as is your right.
> However, one of the characters fits you nicely:
>
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/genesis.txt>
> "In the distance, the judges watch from afar. While not concerned
> with the relative merits of the discussion, they serve to pass
> judgment upon those that contribute and remind them of their station
> in life. Politics, logic, answers, and even the defacing of the
> argument are of little concern to the judges. What matters is the
> value of the contributors, who need to be reminded that they are
> idiots, fools or members of the wrong tribe, thus invalidating their
> opinions and comments."
> >Tom will, of course, speak for himself.
> As is his right, even though you seem to be representing him in this
> discussion.
> >Jesus, save me from the advice of proven idiots.
> The advice was originally from Aesop. Do you consider him to be a
> proven idiot?
> >Now piss off out of my thread.
> <http://thebookshelf2015.blogspot.com/2018/08/quotes-on-profanity.html>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 22:10:41 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Come on, Jeff! I asked for an executive summary,

You did ask, but in reply to a different message:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/unBY53o3MPg/m/ZZs0EMAdAQAJ>

>not a three-mile scroll of whining, which is what I assume this is. I'm not your mother, man, and while you run with the RBT Scum, I don't care shit what you think. So make it short or get lost. Nothing further from me in this post.

I'm not accustomed to one-line discussions, also known as text
messaging, but I'll try:

- You attack people instead of their ideas.
- When "your" thread is used to launch an attack against someone,
they have the right to reply in "your" thread.
- It's not "your" thread just as it's not your newsgroup.
- I suspect that parts of your alleged background are contrived.
- Tom is your disciple and follows your lead at every turn.
- Your 30,000 member writers forum does not exist.
- I'm not the only person to come to similar conclusions:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZrHjeXZ53b8>

That's longer than an executive text message summary, but should
suffice. Feel free to distort and misinterpret every line. It's much
easier to do so with short messages.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:56:34 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> >
> Send an executive summary, will you. I have other things to do than stroke the hurt feeling of overgrown teenagers.
> >
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 11:41:24 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 14:04:41 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> > <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:59:22 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 09:45:32 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> > >> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >So much for the RBT wannabe fact checkers. You should stop and think before you leap, Jeff.
> > >>
> > >> Welcome to my discussion. Unlike your threads, anyone is welcome to
> > >> mine. As for stoping and thinking, I never stop thinking.
> >
> > >Really, yours?
> > Nope. Not mine. For what little it's worth to you, I don't recognize
> > your right to disallow comments in "your" threads. RBT is a newsgroup
> > which does not have any moderation. You are not a moderator of RBT.
> > If you post from Google Groups, you are expected to follow Googles
> > Groups guidelines, but nothing else:
> > <https://support.google.com/groups/answer/4561696?hl=en>
> > If require the protection afforded by moderation, it's easy enough to
> > start your own moderated newsgroup or Google Group. You want control?
> > Start by controlling yourself.
> >
> > I'm also not interested in following your edicts when "your" threads
> > are commonly used as launch points for attacks on various individuals.
> > I haven't seen any postings by you suggesting that Tom refrain from
> > attacking others from "your" threads. Yet, he's done it many times.
> > If you can't keep to the topic you initiate in "your" threads, please
> > don't expect anyone else to do the same. When someone is attacked
> > from your thread, expect a response from them and from their
> > supporters. Self-defense if you will. Even if everyone caved in to
> > your unenforceable demand to stay out of "your" threads, you would
> > likely find something else to complain or argue about. You are like
> > an arsonist, where the fun is not in starting or watching the fire,
> > but rather in watching everyone run around in panic trying to deal
> > with the results of the fire. You like strife. If there's no strife
> > available, you create it. Please return to your mythical 30,000
> > member writers mailing list and play your games there. Much as I like
> > your Utopia Kranich build, it doesn't compensate for any of your
> > comments in RBT.
> > >Tsch! This is my thread too, dickhead. Check the first post. If
> > >you want to discuss naming conventions of hick towns in Ohio,
> > >fuck off, do it elsewhere.
> > If you want to moderate "your" threads, please establish your own
> > newsgroup or forum. I prefer unmoderated Usenet over blogs, mailing
> > lists, forums, or other moderation infested forums. I've been on both
> > sides of the moderation issue and long ago decided that Usenet was the
> > least of the available evils. The major benefit to me are the lack of
> > control freaks, like you.
> > --
> > Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> > PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> > Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Especially those who are approaching death and finally want to make a mark on civilization. I have never figured out how he could have a degree in EE and be 25 miles from Silicon Valley and have to repair printers for a living. That really doesn't say a whole lot for his competence. So why are we getting these treatises on how we don't know what we're doing when we were actually successful?

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:06:44 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 2:55:55 AM UTC+1, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:41:24 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > If you want to moderate "your" threads, please establish your own
> > > newsgroup or forum.
> > I thought Jute claimed he'd already done that - some sort of group with 30,000 members, if I
> > correctly recall Funkmaster's description.
> >
> > Apparently those 30,000 don't post enough to keep Jute occupied, so his sewage overflows into
> > this group. It's almost as if that group doesn't exist! :-)
> >
> > (I wouldn't have bothered posting this if Jute weren't annoyed by people in "his" threads. Hah!)
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> >
> Thanks, Frankie-boy. Since you insist on posting in thread headlined "Majority Believe It's Time to Impeach Biden", I shall assume that you agree with the majority. Welcome to the sensible people.

It is pretty funny that Frank doesn't even know the pseudonym of his fellow member of the stupid six. This was clearly not a typo but yet another demonstration of Frank's disinterest in his fellow supporters.

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:25:32 AM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 22:10:41 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Come on, Jeff! I asked for an executive summary,
> You did ask, but in reply to a different message:
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/unBY53o3MPg/m/ZZs0EMAdAQAJ>
> >not a three-mile scroll of whining, which is what I assume this is. I'm not your mother, man, and while you run with the RBT Scum, I don't care shit what you think. So make it short or get lost. Nothing further from me in this post.
> I'm not accustomed to one-line discussions, also known as text
> messaging, but I'll try:
>
> - You attack people instead of their ideas.
>
Crap. If you read the forum without this laughable, malicious bias, you will discover that your "friends" refuse to discuss their ideas with me because they know I'll roll over them, again; they prefer to dart out from behind anonymity or claims of not reading me for a personal hit and then darting back into hiding.
>
> - When "your" thread is used to launch an attack against someone,
> they have the right to reply in "your" thread.
>
Of course. Who said otherwise? It is widely known that I am the friend of free speech. But the Krygowski Scum you run with enter my threads to bully Tom, not to argue cases. They gloat about ruining my threads. That's all right. I set up the current set of threads to prove that they're trolls, and they obliged me handsomely not only by trolling, as you're doing here, but bragging and gloating about it. QED.
>
> - It's not "your" thread
>
Of course it is my thread if I start it.
>
>just as it's not your newsgroup.
>
Who, except you, said it is my newsgroup? If I wanted to take it, I would've done so long since. I merely note, as for instance Daniels (the one who abused the English language, who wanted me ostracised so people would read his posts instead) did before me, that most of the rich, long threads are started by me, not by the dull Krygowski Scum you run with.
>
> - I suspect that parts of your alleged background are contrived.
>
Prove it. How many times do I have to tell you that I don't care shit what you think.
>
> - Tom is your disciple and follows your lead at every turn.
>
Crap. I follow Tom because he's smarter and better informed from much wider experience than you clowns. Tom's been proved riotously right about the pandemic, and with him me. I am not responsible for your embarrassment you wilful clowns brought on yourselves with your pompous self-important credentialism.
>
> - Your 30,000 member writers forum does not exist.
>
You're too dumb to find it. As of today it has 30,279 members and also today I turned down 234 requests for membership from unqualified applicants, 72 in just the last tranche. I wonder if RBT even has 72 members left, never mind 279. There were certainly more than 72 members in RBT before Frank Krygowski and his ever-changing Gang of Scum drove them away.
>
> - I'm not the only person to come to similar conclusions:
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZrHjeXZ53b8>
>
Link not checked because I know I will find similar malicious bias. I don't have to prove anything to trailer park trash, or indeed anyone else. I owe you nothing, not even courtesy. If you think I'm guilty of something, prove it, don't come whining to me for help in proving your dim suspicions.
>
This is the last letter from you I'll be answering until you come to your senses and apologise to both Tom and me, which I'm perfectly aware is likely to be too high a bar of decency for you to surmount.
>
Unsigned out of contempt.
>

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 5:34:22 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:06:44 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 2:55:55 AM UTC+1, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:41:24 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If you want to moderate "your" threads, please establish your own
> > > > newsgroup or forum.
> > > I thought Jute claimed he'd already done that - some sort of group with 30,000 members, if I
> > > correctly recall Funkmaster's description.
> > >
> > > Apparently those 30,000 don't post enough to keep Jute occupied, so his sewage overflows into
> > > this group. It's almost as if that group doesn't exist! :-)
> > >
> > > (I wouldn't have bothered posting this if Jute weren't annoyed by people in "his" threads. Hah!)
> > >
> > > - Frank Krygowski
> > >
> > Thanks, Frankie-boy. Since you insist on posting in thread headlined "Majority Believe It's Time to Impeach Biden", I shall assume that you agree with the majority. Welcome to the sensible people.
>
> It is pretty funny that Frank doesn't even know the pseudonym of his fellow member of the stupid six. This was clearly not a typo but yet another demonstration of Frank's disinterest in his fellow supporters.
>
I'd have enjoyed the joke even better if I thought Kreepy Krygowski had the sophistication to make such an obvious pun (the lowest form of wit) on the cowardice of Flunky in using a pseudonym. But I'm afraid that you are right: Franki-boy is a crude sociopath who can't even properly remember the names of his sidekicks in net crime. -- AJ
>