On 5/26/2021 11:25 PM, Don Y wrote:
> On 5/26/2021 11:20 PM, Don Y wrote:
>
>> Some years ago, I stumbled on a "Personal Reader" at a local auction.
>> As no one knew what it was, it was overlooked. I "won" it for the minimum
>> $7 bid. Clear on the other side of the display floor, the scanner sat
>> in a separate lot (it may have also had the manuals with it, I can't
>> recall). Again, no knowledge/interest so that set me back another $7.
>>
>> <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Kurzweil_scanner_01.jpg>
>>
>> The "reader" is the upright device on the left; its keyboard is the lower
>> half (shown tucked in for storage); optional flatbed scanner at the right.
>> The *handheld* scanner is tucked into its storage hole just behind the
>> bright silver connector on the right side of the main unit.
>
> A better photo of the system with the keypad deployed and hand
> scanner shown in its "in use" position. Amusingly, the scanner
> didn't benefit from size reduction as much as the base unit
> (obviously, there's a minimum footprint requirement to
> accommodate the texts placed on it; yet it still is considerably
> bulkier than modern scanners)

Grrrr... it would help if I'd actually included the link! <:(

<https://www.sightandsound.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Ray-Kurzweil-historic-temp-A1.png>

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 2:26:42 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
>
> Grrrr... it would help if I'd actually included the link! <:(
>
> <https://www.sightandsound.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Ray-Kurzweil-historic-temp-A1.png>

No problem. http://www.archive.org has a lot of old tech books as pdf, along with computer an electronics magazines. I want to build a book scanner after I can see well enough, again. I have some old manuals that I haven't found online. They were listed on my Earthlink website that was shut down without notice. I've registered a domain name to rebuild it, but it isn't online yet.

On 5/27/2021 4:36 AM, Michael Terrell wrote:
> No problem. http://www.archive.org has a lot of old tech books as pdf, along
> with computer an electronics magazines.

Yeah, the operative word, there, is *old*. <frown> If you want to consult
something "current" -- or, esoteric -- you're SoL.

> I want to build a book scanner after
> I can see well enough, again.

It's a lot harder than you'd think! Kurzweil had a big incentive for
trying to tackle that problem. A subsequent product (just prior to the
Xerox acquisition) was The Data Entry System; it was intended for
use digitalizing large volumes of data (e.g., phone books).

If you look, closely, at the scanners used in the KRM and Personal
Reader, you'll see that they allow the camera to move right up to the edge of
the enclosure. So, instead of trying to force a book to splay open
"flat" (not possible as the parts of the pages closest to the binding
will always raise up off the glass), you could "straddle" the edge of
the scanner to allow the optics access to the inner edges of each page.

Bitsavers.org destructively scans books. You simply cut off the binding
and convert the book into a pile of loose pages. This is particularly
easy (and effective) with "perfect binding" -- the sort used for
paperback novels, databooks, etc. Then, scan the pages with a scanner
that has an automatic document feeder.

[This is actually not as easy as it sounds; paper handling is a bit of a
challenge, mechanically!]

> I have some old manuals that I haven't found
> online. They were listed on my Earthlink website that was shut down without
> notice. I've registered a domain name to rebuild it, but it isn't online
> yet.

As I've told others, contact AEK at bitsavers.org and see if he has
an interest in adding your documents to his collection. This saves
you the effort of scanning them AND maintaining a web site... yet
gives you continued access to their content!

In article <s8p6c6$uk1$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
says...
>
> On 5/27/2021 4:36 AM, Michael Terrell wrote:
> > No problem. http://www.archive.org has a lot of old tech books as pdf, along
> > with computer an electronics magazines.
>
> If you look, closely, at the scanners used in the KRM and Personal
> Reader, you'll see that they allow the camera to move right up to the edge of
> the enclosure. So, instead of trying to force a book to splay open
> "flat" (not possible as the parts of the pages closest to the binding
> will always raise up off the glass), you could "straddle" the edge of
> the scanner to allow the optics access to the inner edges of each page.

A blind lady of my acquaintance had a scanner with that "gutter"
constraint. But her complaint was that although the device would play
the separate MP3 files built from each page of a book in the right
order, if she copied them to a handy Android pocket device to listen to
they would be played in an apparent random order. I soon diagnosed that
this was because the scanner was using Windows XP which sorts files
having partially numeric file names based on that numeric part, whereas
Android always uses alphabetic sort. So the trick was to get the scanner
to rename the files, before they got copied, with a fixed-length numeric
part so alphabetic sort gives the right answer...

On 5/28/2021 1:05 AM, Mike Coon wrote:
> In article <s8p6c6$uk1$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
> says...
>>
>> On 5/27/2021 4:36 AM, Michael Terrell wrote:
>>> No problem. http://www.archive.org has a lot of old tech books as pdf, along
>>> with computer an electronics magazines.
>>
>> If you look, closely, at the scanners used in the KRM and Personal
>> Reader, you'll see that they allow the camera to move right up to the edge of
>> the enclosure. So, instead of trying to force a book to splay open
>> "flat" (not possible as the parts of the pages closest to the binding
>> will always raise up off the glass), you could "straddle" the edge of
>> the scanner to allow the optics access to the inner edges of each page.
>
> A blind lady of my acquaintance had a scanner with that "gutter"
> constraint. But her complaint was that although the device would play
> the separate MP3 files built from each page of a book in the right
> order, if she copied them to a handy Android pocket device to listen to
> they would be played in an apparent random order. I soon diagnosed that
> this was because the scanner was using Windows XP which sorts files
> having partially numeric file names based on that numeric part, whereas
> Android always uses alphabetic sort. So the trick was to get the scanner
> to rename the files, before they got copied, with a fixed-length numeric
> part so alphabetic sort gives the right answer...

I had a neighbor complaining that her "audio bible" was reading
books in the "wrong" order; "No, it doesn't KNOW the *right* order!"

There are a fair number of devices that don't do *any* sorting!
Instead, they present the files in the order they are encountered
on the medium (!).

[WTF??? Who could ever have thought THIS made sense??]

I *guess* it makes sense if you aren't very clever or think
that you need "lots of space" to store the sorted list
(instead of doing it incrementally "in place")

I've had to write little scripts that:
- create a temporary subdirectory
- move all of the files into that subdirectory
- move the files out of that subdirectory back to their original
level in the file hierarchy using the sorted output of "dir"
to determine the order that they are reinstated in the original
level (change the switches to 'dir' to change the sort order)

Even this isn't 100% reliable as the subdirectory eats a spot in
the VTOC that can later get filled by a file "out of sort-order".

On 28/05/21 09:25, Don Y wrote:
> I had a neighbor complaining that her "audio bible" was reading
> books in the "wrong" order;  "No, it doesn't KNOW the *right* order!"
>
> There are a fair number of devices that don't do *any* sorting!
> Instead, they present the files in the order they are encountered
> on the medium (!).
>
> [WTF???  Who could ever have thought THIS made sense??]

It doesn't make sense, of course.

When I found my mp3 player had that misfeature, I took
it back. It was surprisingly difficult to find one that
wasn't faulty like that.

I presume one idiot wrote the firmware, and all the
manufacturers/re-badgers used it in their devices.

On 5/28/2021 2:46 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 28/05/21 09:25, Don Y wrote:
>> I had a neighbor complaining that her "audio bible" was reading
>> books in the "wrong" order; "No, it doesn't KNOW the *right* order!"
>>
>> There are a fair number of devices that don't do *any* sorting!
>> Instead, they present the files in the order they are encountered
>> on the medium (!).
>>
>> [WTF??? Who could ever have thought THIS made sense??]
>
> It doesn't make sense, of course.
>
> When I found my mp3 player had that misfeature, I took
> it back. It was surprisingly difficult to find one that
> wasn't faulty like that.
>
> I presume one idiot wrote the firmware, and all the
> manufacturers/re-badgers used it in their devices.

It's considerably easier to just walk through the directory,
sequentially.

But, sorting isn't THAT difficult -- even with low resources.
You're not pressed for time so you can even implement a
brain-dead sort with just a few bytes to keep track of
"first-so-far" and keep making passes over the entire
contents after each song is played (to find the "next")

A more annoying "misfeature" is lack of support for gapless
playback. One can remedy the "non-sort" problem but there's
nothing you can do to fix lack of gapless support!

On 2021-05-28, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
> On 5/28/2021 1:05 AM, Mike Coon wrote:
>
> I had a neighbor complaining that her "audio bible" was reading
> books in the "wrong" order; "No, it doesn't KNOW the *right* order!"
>
> There are a fair number of devices that don't do *any* sorting!
> Instead, they present the files in the order they are encountered
> on the medium (!).
>
> [WTF??? Who could ever have thought THIS made sense??]

This is how casette tapes, compact discs, and LPs work.

--
Jasen.

On 5/28/2021 5:05 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2021-05-28, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>> On 5/28/2021 1:05 AM, Mike Coon wrote:
>>
>> I had a neighbor complaining that her "audio bible" was reading
>> books in the "wrong" order; "No, it doesn't KNOW the *right* order!"
>>
>> There are a fair number of devices that don't do *any* sorting!
>> Instead, they present the files in the order they are encountered
>> on the medium (!).
>>
>> [WTF??? Who could ever have thought THIS made sense??]
>
> This is how casette tapes, compact discs, and LPs work.

The ordering of titles on those media do not change when you
"erase one title and add another"

On 5/25/2021 11:25 AM, Michael Terrell wrote:
> I am still waiting for cataract surgery, and I'm stil dealing with weekly trips to wound care.
> I have to sit eight inches from my 24 inch monitor, with it zoomed to 150% to see the group. It gives me headaches,, so I had to give it up months ago.
> This Satellite delivered internet sucks, and has severe rain fade, alonng with a low data cap.
> Not that many care, but I still have a few friends on here.
>

Just saw your post today (been traveling) or I would have
written sooner. Here's hoping you get that surgery soon
with a vast improvement in your vision! You'll be in my
prayers.

Ed

On Tue, 25 May 2021 08:25:43 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

>I am still waiting for cataract surgery, and I'm stil dealing with weekly trips to wound care.
>I have to sit eight inches from my 24 inch monitor, with it zoomed to 150% to see the group. It gives me headaches,, so I had to give it up months ago.
>This Satellite delivered internet sucks, and has severe rain fade, alonng with a low data cap.
>Not that many care, but I still have a few friends on here.

You do indeed. Good luck with the surgery, Michael.

On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 12:29:51 AM UTC-4, ehsjr wrote:
>
> Just saw your post today (been traveling) or I would have
> written sooner. Here's hoping you get that surgery soon
> with a vast improvement in your vision! You'll be in my
> prayers.

Thank you!

On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 8:43:51 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Tue, 25 May 2021 08:25:43 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell wrote:
>
> >I am still waiting for cataract surgery, and I'm stil dealing with weekly trips to wound care.
> >I have to sit eight inches from my 24 inch monitor, with it zoomed to 150% to see the group. It gives me headaches,, so I had to give it up months ago.
> >This Satellite delivered internet sucks, and has severe rain fade, along with a low data cap.
> >Not that many care, but I still have a few friends on here.
>
> You do indeed. Good luck with the surgery, Michael.

Thank you!

On Sun, 30 May 2021 09:34:08 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 8:43:51 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 May 2021 08:25:43 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell wrote:
>>
>> >I am still waiting for cataract surgery, and I'm stil dealing with weekly trips to wound care.
>> >I have to sit eight inches from my 24 inch monitor, with it zoomed to 150% to see the group. It gives me headaches,, so I had to give it up months ago.
>> >This Satellite delivered internet sucks, and has severe rain fade, along with a low data cap.
>> >Not that many care, but I still have a few friends on here.
>>
>> You do indeed. Good luck with the surgery, Michael.
>
>Thank you!

I mean it. If anyone deserves a break, it's you.