https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred

Anybody tried them?

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.

On 2021/05/30 5:59 p.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
>
> Anybody tried them?
>
>
>

Interesting - I wonder if the PCBs (2 layer) are made in the USA? I'd be
inclined to try them out if they were.

John :-#)#

On Sun, 30 May 2021 19:56:23 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:

>
>On 2021/05/30 5:59 p.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>
>> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
>>
>> Anybody tried them?
>>
>>
>>
>
>Interesting - I wonder if the PCBs (2 layer) are made in the USA? I'd be
>inclined to try them out if they were.
>
>John :-#)#

Yes, they say so.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.

On Sun, 30 May 2021 20:16:07 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

>On Sun, 30 May 2021 19:56:23 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>On 2021/05/30 5:59 p.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>
>>> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
>>>
>>> Anybody tried them?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Interesting - I wonder if the PCBs (2 layer) are made in the USA? I'd be
>>inclined to try them out if they were.
>>
>>John :-#)#
>
>Yes, they say so.

They use Advanced Circuits, Royal Circuit Solution inc. QT precision
Circuit, and Seeed Fusion. Probably the vendor is choose based upon
the requirements.

I just wish they would offer 94V0 for quick turn, most don't. (its
just a stamp on the board, if its the same mfg process)

Cheers

On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 10:07:07 PM UTC-7, Martin Riddle wrote:
> On Sun, 30 May 2021 20:16:07 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
> wrote:
> >On Sun, 30 May 2021 19:56:23 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>On 2021/05/30 5:59 p.m., jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> >>>
> >>> Anybody tried them?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>Interesting - I wonder if the PCBs (2 layer) are made in the USA? I'd be
> >>inclined to try them out if they were.
> >>
> >>John :-#)#
> >
> >Yes, they say so.
> They use Advanced Circuits, Royal Circuit Solution inc. QT precision
> Circuit, and Seeed Fusion. Probably the vendor is choose based upon
> the requirements.

I have used Advanced Circuits and Seeed Fusion before. So, just let Digikey pick for me. Probably based on how my size fit in with the rest. Will try my next 2"x1.2" next. Too small for most other standard slot size of 4"x4" (100 mm^2 ).

> I just wish they would offer 94V0 for quick turn, most don't. (its
> just a stamp on the board, if its the same mfg process)

It's a label, right? Why would you need it for prototype?

Ed Lee wrote:
> On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 10:07:07 PM UTC-7, Martin Riddle wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 May 2021 20:16:07 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
>> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 30 May 2021 19:56:23 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2021/05/30 5:59 p.m., jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
>>>>>
>>>>> Anybody tried them?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Interesting - I wonder if the PCBs (2 layer) are made in the USA? I'd be
>>>> inclined to try them out if they were.
>>>>
>>>> John :-#)#
>>>
>>> Yes, they say so.
>> They use Advanced Circuits, Royal Circuit Solution inc. QT precision
>> Circuit, and Seeed Fusion. Probably the vendor is choose based upon
>> the requirements.
>
> I have used Advanced Circuits and Seeed Fusion before. So, just let Digikey pick for me. Probably based on how my size fit in with the rest. Will try my next 2"x1.2" next. Too small for most other standard slot size of 4"x4" (100 mm^2 ).
>
>> I just wish they would offer 94V0 for quick turn, most don't. (its
>> just a stamp on the board, if its the same mfg process)
>
> It's a label, right? Why would you need it for prototype?
>

Looks like a great way to make front panels, if you don't mind the
garish colour. I haven't used a 2-layer board in years, apart from the
odd breakout.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 17.53.49 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
> Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 10:07:07 PM UTC-7, Martin Riddle wrote:
> >> On Sun, 30 May 2021 20:16:07 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
> >> wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 30 May 2021 19:56:23 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 2021/05/30 5:59 p.m., jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anybody tried them?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Interesting - I wonder if the PCBs (2 layer) are made in the USA? I'd be
> >>>> inclined to try them out if they were.
> >>>>
> >>>> John :-#)#
> >>>
> >>> Yes, they say so.
> >> They use Advanced Circuits, Royal Circuit Solution inc. QT precision
> >> Circuit, and Seeed Fusion. Probably the vendor is choose based upon
> >> the requirements.
> >
> > I have used Advanced Circuits and Seeed Fusion before. So, just let Digikey pick for me. Probably based on how my size fit in with the rest. Will try my next 2"x1.2" next. Too small for most other standard slot size of 4"x4" (100 mm^2 ).

that would be 10000mm^2 and why fuss about how it fits 100x100 when it is dirt cheap?

> >
> >> I just wish they would offer 94V0 for quick turn, most don't. (its
> >> just a stamp on the board, if its the same mfg process)
> >
> > It's a label, right? Why would you need it for prototype?
> >
> Looks like a great way to make front panels, if you don't mind the
> garish colour. I haven't used a 2-layer board in years, apart from the
> odd breakout.
jlcpcb does 5x 100x100mm 2 layer with free choice of soldermask color for $2 in ~3 days

On Mon, 31 May 2021 11:53:37 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>Ed Lee wrote:
>> On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 10:07:07 PM UTC-7, Martin Riddle wrote:
>>> On Sun, 30 May 2021 20:16:07 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 30 May 2021 19:56:23 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2021/05/30 5:59 p.m., jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anybody tried them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting - I wonder if the PCBs (2 layer) are made in the USA? I'd be
>>>>> inclined to try them out if they were.
>>>>>
>>>>> John :-#)#
>>>>
>>>> Yes, they say so.
>>> They use Advanced Circuits, Royal Circuit Solution inc. QT precision
>>> Circuit, and Seeed Fusion. Probably the vendor is choose based upon
>>> the requirements.
>>
>> I have used Advanced Circuits and Seeed Fusion before. So, just let Digikey pick for me. Probably based on how my size fit in with the rest. Will try my next 2"x1.2" next. Too small for most other standard slot size of 4"x4" (100 mm^2 ).
>>
>>> I just wish they would offer 94V0 for quick turn, most don't. (its
>>> just a stamp on the board, if its the same mfg process)
>>
>> It's a label, right? Why would you need it for prototype?
>>
>
>Looks like a great way to make front panels, if you don't mind the
>garish colour. I haven't used a 2-layer board in years, apart from the
>odd breakout.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

I was just scribbling an eom driver using phemts. It might work on a
2-layer board if the back side were all copper, namely ground pour
with maybe a couple of brutally bypassed power pours. I might try
that.

I don't know what the wire-bond inductances might be for a phemt, and
I'm not enough of an RF jock to work that out from s-params. I'll just
TDR one soon.

I usually use 4-layer minimum boards, but the fast signals are almost
always on layer 1. A thicker dielectric is appealing for speed, since
it would have wider traces and probably lower losses.

Phemts are cheap and distributed amps are expensive, so it's worth a
shot.

PCBs as front panels and end plates is interesting, as an alternate to
machining aluminum.

We got our new anodize-blasting laser set up, which makes boxes and
end plates a little easier to fab.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 17.53.49 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
> > Ed Lee wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 10:07:07 PM UTC-7, Martin Riddle wrote:
> > >> On Sun, 30 May 2021 20:16:07 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
> > >> wrote:
> > >>> On Sun, 30 May 2021 19:56:23 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On 2021/05/30 5:59 p.m., jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Anybody tried them?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Interesting - I wonder if the PCBs (2 layer) are made in the USA? I'd be
> > >>>> inclined to try them out if they were.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> John :-#)#
> > >>>
> > >>> Yes, they say so.
> > >> They use Advanced Circuits, Royal Circuit Solution inc. QT precision
> > >> Circuit, and Seeed Fusion. Probably the vendor is choose based upon
> > >> the requirements.
> > >
> > > I have used Advanced Circuits and Seeed Fusion before. So, just let Digikey pick for me. Probably based on how my size fit in with the rest. Will try my next 2"x1.2" next. Too small for most other standard slot size of 4"x4" (100 mm^2 ).
> that would be 10000mm^2 and why fuss about how it fits 100x100 when it is dirt cheap?

Yes, (100mm)^2. Many of them do prototype for $5, but $10 to $15 international shipping. 200mmx1200mm should ship for $5 to $10 in US. Off-shore takes 2 to 3 weeks, i often order updates before getting boards back to test. I asked them to dump the older boards, but they insist on sending me the junk. Shipping pre-paid of course.

> > >
> > >> I just wish they would offer 94V0 for quick turn, most don't. (its
> > >> just a stamp on the board, if its the same mfg process)
> > >
> > > It's a label, right? Why would you need it for prototype?
> > >
> > Looks like a great way to make front panels, if you don't mind the
> > garish colour. I haven't used a 2-layer board in years, apart from the
> > odd breakout.
> jlcpcb does 5x 100x100mm 2 layer with free choice of soldermask color for $2 in ~3 days

+ shipping?

mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 18.33.45 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
> On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> > mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 17.53.49 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
> > > Ed Lee wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 10:07:07 PM UTC-7, Martin Riddle wrote:
> > > >> On Sun, 30 May 2021 20:16:07 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>> On Sun, 30 May 2021 19:56:23 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On 2021/05/30 5:59 p.m., jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Anybody tried them?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Interesting - I wonder if the PCBs (2 layer) are made in the USA? I'd be
> > > >>>> inclined to try them out if they were.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> John :-#)#
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Yes, they say so.
> > > >> They use Advanced Circuits, Royal Circuit Solution inc. QT precision
> > > >> Circuit, and Seeed Fusion. Probably the vendor is choose based upon
> > > >> the requirements.
> > > >
> > > > I have used Advanced Circuits and Seeed Fusion before. So, just let Digikey pick for me. Probably based on how my size fit in with the rest. Will try my next 2"x1.2" next. Too small for most other standard slot size of 4"x4" (100 mm^2 ).
> > that would be 10000mm^2 and why fuss about how it fits 100x100 when it is dirt cheap?
> Yes, (100mm)^2. Many of them do prototype for $5, but $10 to $15 international shipping. 200mmx1200mm should ship for $5 to $10 in US. Off-shore takes 2 to 3 weeks, i often order updates before getting boards back to test. I asked them to dump the older boards, but they insist on sending me the junk. Shipping pre-paid of course.
> > > >
> > > >> I just wish they would offer 94V0 for quick turn, most don't. (its
> > > >> just a stamp on the board, if its the same mfg process)
> > > >
> > > > It's a label, right? Why would you need it for prototype?
> > > >
> > > Looks like a great way to make front panels, if you don't mind the
> > > garish colour. I haven't used a 2-layer board in years, apart from the
> > > odd breakout.
> > jlcpcb does 5x 100x100mm 2 layer with free choice of soldermask color for $2 in ~3 days
> + shipping?

yes, $3 if you can wait 10-18 days, $13 if you want in 2-4days

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 9:43:39 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 18.33.45 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
> > On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> > > mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 17.53.49 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
> > > > Ed Lee wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 10:07:07 PM UTC-7, Martin Riddle wrote:
> > > > >> On Sun, 30 May 2021 20:16:07 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>> On Sun, 30 May 2021 19:56:23 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On 2021/05/30 5:59 p.m., jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Anybody tried them?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Interesting - I wonder if the PCBs (2 layer) are made in the USA? I'd be
> > > > >>>> inclined to try them out if they were.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> John :-#)#
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Yes, they say so.
> > > > >> They use Advanced Circuits, Royal Circuit Solution inc. QT precision
> > > > >> Circuit, and Seeed Fusion. Probably the vendor is choose based upon
> > > > >> the requirements.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have used Advanced Circuits and Seeed Fusion before. So, just let Digikey pick for me. Probably based on how my size fit in with the rest. Will try my next 2"x1.2" next. Too small for most other standard slot size of 4"x4" (100 mm^2 ).
> > > that would be 10000mm^2 and why fuss about how it fits 100x100 when it is dirt cheap?
> > Yes, (100mm)^2. Many of them do prototype for $5, but $10 to $15 international shipping. 200mmx1200mm should ship for $5 to $10 in US. Off-shore takes 2 to 3 weeks, i often order updates before getting boards back to test.. I asked them to dump the older boards, but they insist on sending me the junk. Shipping pre-paid of course.
> > > > >
> > > > >> I just wish they would offer 94V0 for quick turn, most don't. (its
> > > > >> just a stamp on the board, if its the same mfg process)
> > > > >
> > > > > It's a label, right? Why would you need it for prototype?
> > > > >
> > > > Looks like a great way to make front panels, if you don't mind the
> > > > garish colour. I haven't used a 2-layer board in years, apart from the
> > > > odd breakout.

> > > jlcpcb does 5x 100x100mm 2 layer with free choice of soldermask color for $2 in ~3 days
> > + shipping?
> yes, $3 if you can wait 10-18 days, $13 if you want in 2-4days

+ another 3 to 4 days in the mail.

By the way, the STM32F411 black pill is great for prototype, until needing some more pins. Even with the pinned ports, there are often restrictions. For example, no A3,4 with USB or USART. No B4,5 (or something with ADC, ....) or with smaller package (QFN 48).

So, i am building a winged 100 pins DIP40:

_____XXXXXXXXX____
_____RRRRRRRRR____
_____123456789___
_____RRRRRRRRR____
_____123456789___
433333______222222
098765______654321

______100QFP______

_____________111112
123456______567890
_____LLLLLLLLL____
_____123456789___
_____XXXXXXXX____
_____LLLLLLLLL____
_____123456789___

Perhaps right wing only, since i have been accused as a right-winger.
So, the analog signal is on Extreme Right Wing 1 (XR1).

mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 19.06.31 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
> On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 9:43:39 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> > mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 18.33.45 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
> > > On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> > > > mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 17.53.49 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
> > > > > Ed Lee wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 10:07:07 PM UTC-7, Martin Riddle wrote:
> > > > > >> On Sun, 30 May 2021 20:16:07 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
> > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > >>> On Sun, 30 May 2021 19:56:23 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> On 2021/05/30 5:59 p.m., jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Anybody tried them?
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Interesting - I wonder if the PCBs (2 layer) are made in the USA? I'd be
> > > > > >>>> inclined to try them out if they were.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> John :-#)#
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Yes, they say so.
> > > > > >> They use Advanced Circuits, Royal Circuit Solution inc. QT precision
> > > > > >> Circuit, and Seeed Fusion. Probably the vendor is choose based upon
> > > > > >> the requirements.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have used Advanced Circuits and Seeed Fusion before. So, just let Digikey pick for me. Probably based on how my size fit in with the rest. Will try my next 2"x1.2" next. Too small for most other standard slot size of 4"x4" (100 mm^2 ).
> > > > that would be 10000mm^2 and why fuss about how it fits 100x100 when it is dirt cheap?
> > > Yes, (100mm)^2. Many of them do prototype for $5, but $10 to $15 international shipping. 200mmx1200mm should ship for $5 to $10 in US. Off-shore takes 2 to 3 weeks, i often order updates before getting boards back to test. I asked them to dump the older boards, but they insist on sending me the junk. Shipping pre-paid of course.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> I just wish they would offer 94V0 for quick turn, most don't. (its
> > > > > >> just a stamp on the board, if its the same mfg process)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's a label, right? Why would you need it for prototype?
> > > > > >
> > > > > Looks like a great way to make front panels, if you don't mind the
> > > > > garish colour. I haven't used a 2-layer board in years, apart from the
> > > > > odd breakout.
>
> > > > jlcpcb does 5x 100x100mm 2 layer with free choice of soldermask color for $2 in ~3 days
> > > + shipping?
> > yes, $3 if you can wait 10-18 days, $13 if you want in 2-4days
> + another 3 to 4 days in the mail.

that is 2-3 days for production and 2-4 day for shipping, I've often gotten boards with assembly in a about week

>
> By the way, the STM32F411 black pill is great for prototype, until needing some more pins. Even with the pinned ports, there are often restrictions. For example, no A3,4 with USB or USART. No B4,5 (or something with ADC, ....) or with smaller package (QFN 48).
>

I normally either nucleo64 that includes a debugger or something like this: https://stm32-base.org/boards/STM32F407VGT6-diymore.html

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 10:44:26 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 19.06.31 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
> > On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 9:43:39 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> > > mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 18.33.45 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
> > > > On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> > > > > mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 17.53.49 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
> > > > > > Ed Lee wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 10:07:07 PM UTC-7, Martin Riddle wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Sun, 30 May 2021 20:16:07 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
> > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > >>> On Sun, 30 May 2021 19:56:23 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
> > > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> On 2021/05/30 5:59 p.m., jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> Anybody tried them?
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Interesting - I wonder if the PCBs (2 layer) are made in the USA? I'd be
> > > > > > >>>> inclined to try them out if they were.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> John :-#)#
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Yes, they say so.
> > > > > > >> They use Advanced Circuits, Royal Circuit Solution inc. QT precision
> > > > > > >> Circuit, and Seeed Fusion. Probably the vendor is choose based upon
> > > > > > >> the requirements.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have used Advanced Circuits and Seeed Fusion before. So, just let Digikey pick for me. Probably based on how my size fit in with the rest. Will try my next 2"x1.2" next. Too small for most other standard slot size of 4"x4" (100 mm^2 ).
> > > > > that would be 10000mm^2 and why fuss about how it fits 100x100 when it is dirt cheap?
> > > > Yes, (100mm)^2. Many of them do prototype for $5, but $10 to $15 international shipping. 200mmx1200mm should ship for $5 to $10 in US. Off-shore takes 2 to 3 weeks, i often order updates before getting boards back to test. I asked them to dump the older boards, but they insist on sending me the junk. Shipping pre-paid of course.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> I just wish they would offer 94V0 for quick turn, most don't.. (its
> > > > > > >> just a stamp on the board, if its the same mfg process)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It's a label, right? Why would you need it for prototype?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Looks like a great way to make front panels, if you don't mind the
> > > > > > garish colour. I haven't used a 2-layer board in years, apart from the
> > > > > > odd breakout.
> >
> > > > > jlcpcb does 5x 100x100mm 2 layer with free choice of soldermask color for $2 in ~3 days
> > > > + shipping?
> > > yes, $3 if you can wait 10-18 days, $13 if you want in 2-4days
> > + another 3 to 4 days in the mail.
> that is 2-3 days for production and 2-4 day for shipping, I've often gotten boards with assembly in a about week
> >
> > By the way, the STM32F411 black pill is great for prototype, until needing some more pins. Even with the pinned ports, there are often restrictions. For example, no A3,4 with USB or USART. No B4,5 (or something with ADC, ....) or with smaller package (QFN 48).
> >
> I normally either nucleo64 that includes a debugger or something like this: https://stm32-base.org/boards/STM32F407VGT6-diymore.html

I put the DIP40 (minus the middle part) on a ZIP 40 socket. Very convenient to swap.
Removing the middle part also helps with the PCB layout. The wings will support another wireless (802.15.4 or .1 or just Freq. Shift Key) shuttle board.

On 05/31/2021 02:59 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
>
> Anybody tried them?
>
>
>
Hmmm..

Copper Layers 2

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 12:07:39 PM UTC-7, Johann Klammer wrote:
> On 05/31/2021 02:59 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >
> > https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> >
> > Anybody tried them?
> >
> >
> >
> Hmmm..
>
> Copper Layers 2

So, stack boards instead of layers. I often stack them up to avoid multi-layers.

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 10:51:40 AM UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 10:44:26 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> > mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 19.06.31 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
> > > On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 9:43:39 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> > > > mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 18.33.45 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
> > > > > On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> > > > > > mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 17.53.49 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
> > > > > > > Ed Lee wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 10:07:07 PM UTC-7, Martin Riddle wrote:
> > > > > > > >> On Sun, 30 May 2021 20:16:07 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
> > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>> On Sun, 30 May 2021 19:56:23 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
> > > > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> On 2021/05/30 5:59 p.m., jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> Anybody tried them?
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> Interesting - I wonder if the PCBs (2 layer) are made in the USA? I'd be
> > > > > > > >>>> inclined to try them out if they were.
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> John :-#)#
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> Yes, they say so.
> > > > > > > >> They use Advanced Circuits, Royal Circuit Solution inc. QT precision
> > > > > > > >> Circuit, and Seeed Fusion. Probably the vendor is choose based upon
> > > > > > > >> the requirements.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have used Advanced Circuits and Seeed Fusion before. So, just let Digikey pick for me. Probably based on how my size fit in with the rest. Will try my next 2"x1.2" next. Too small for most other standard slot size of 4"x4" (100 mm^2 ).
> > > > > > that would be 10000mm^2 and why fuss about how it fits 100x100 when it is dirt cheap?
> > > > > Yes, (100mm)^2. Many of them do prototype for $5, but $10 to $15 international shipping. 200mmx1200mm should ship for $5 to $10 in US. Off-shore takes 2 to 3 weeks, i often order updates before getting boards back to test. I asked theim to dump the older boards, but they insist on sending me the junk. Shipping pre-paid of course.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> I just wish they would offer 94V0 for quick turn, most don't. (its
> > > > > > > >> just a stamp on the board, if its the same mfg process)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It's a label, right? Why would you need it for prototype?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looks like a great way to make front panels, if you don't mind the
> > > > > > > garish colour. I haven't used a 2-layer board in years, apart from the
> > > > > > > odd breakout. htil needing some more pins. Even with the pinned ports, there are often restrictions. For example, no A3,4 with USB or USART. No B4,5 (or something with ADC, ...) or with smaller package (QFN 48).
> > >
> > I normally either nucleo64 that includes a debugger or something like this: https://stm32-base.org/boards/STM32F407VGT6-diymore.html
> I put the DIP40 (minus the middle part) on a ZIP 40 socket. Very convenient to swap.
> Removing the middle part also helps with the PCB layout. The wings will support another wireless (802.15.4 or .1 or just Freq. Shift Key) shuttle board.

And looks like i have to order chips now, even before finishing the PCB, if there is any hope of getting chips this year.

On Mon, 31 May 2021 21:07:24 +0200, Johann Klammer
<klammerj@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote:

>On 05/31/2021 02:59 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>
>> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
>>
>> Anybody tried them?
>>
>>
>>
>Hmmm..
>
>Copper Layers 2

Better than one!

I wonder if they have a 4-layer option.

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 1:26:03 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 31 May 2021 21:07:24 +0200, Johann Klammer
> <klam...@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote:
>
> >On 05/31/2021 02:59 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >>
> >> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> >>
> >> Anybody tried them?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >Hmmm..
> >
> >Copper Layers 2
> Better than one!
>
> I wonder if they have a 4-layer option.

Yes somewhere (i remember a 4 layers quick proto, but cost much more than 2x 2 layers) , I would prototype 2 pcs of 2 layers, but make 4 layers in production.

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 1:37:08 PM UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 1:26:03 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Mon, 31 May 2021 21:07:24 +0200, Johann Klammer
> > <klam...@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote:
> >
> > >On 05/31/2021 02:59 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > >>
> > >> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> > >>
> > >> Anybody tried them?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >Hmmm..
> > >
> > >Copper Layers 2
> > Better than one!
> >
> > I wonder if they have a 4-layer option.
> Yes somewhere (i remember a 4 layers quick proto, but cost much more than 2x 2 layers) , I would prototype 2 pcs of 2 layers, but make 4 layers in production.

Of course, it's harder to do that for BGA. Only for simple SMT.

On Mon, 31 May 2021 13:37:05 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 1:26:03 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 May 2021 21:07:24 +0200, Johann Klammer
>> <klam...@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On 05/31/2021 02:59 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
>> >>
>> >> Anybody tried them?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Hmmm..
>> >
>> >Copper Layers 2
>> Better than one!
>>
>> I wonder if they have a 4-layer option.
>
>Yes somewhere (i remember a 4 layers quick proto, but cost much more than 2x 2 layers) , I would prototype 2 pcs of 2 layers, but make 4 layers in production.

How do you do that? Stack boards with a jillion little wires to
connect all the vias?

4-layer protos are cheap nowadays. Just make sure they will follow
your stackup.

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 1:40:27 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 31 May 2021 13:37:05 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 1:26:03 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Mon, 31 May 2021 21:07:24 +0200, Johann Klammer
> >> <klam...@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 05/31/2021 02:59 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> >> >>
> >> >> Anybody tried them?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >Hmmm..
> >> >
> >> >Copper Layers 2
> >> Better than one!
> >>
> >> I wonder if they have a 4-layer option.
> >
> >Yes somewhere (i remember a 4 layers quick proto, but cost much more than 2x 2 layers) , I would prototype 2 pcs of 2 layers, but make 4 layers in production.
> How do you do that? Stack boards with a jillion little wires to
> connect all the vias?

Yes, line up all the holes and vias. Just a straight wires between boards. It's ugly, but reliable enough for proto.

>
> 4-layer protos are cheap nowadays. Just make sure they will follow
> your stackup.

It's also easier to debug mult-board stackup. You can't see the traces inside 4 layers proto.

mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 22.37.08 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
> On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 1:26:03 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Mon, 31 May 2021 21:07:24 +0200, Johann Klammer
> > <klam...@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote:
> >
> > >On 05/31/2021 02:59 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > >>
> > >> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> > >>
> > >> Anybody tried them?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >Hmmm..
> > >
> > >Copper Layers 2
> > Better than one!
> >
> > I wonder if they have a 4-layer option.
> Yes somewhere (i remember a 4 layers quick proto, but cost much more than 2x 2 layers) , I would prototype 2 pcs of 2 layers, but make 4 layers in production.

4x the price so all the extra work and limitations on where you can put vias will all most save you enough to buy a cup of coffee

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 2:05:15 PM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 22.37.08 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
> > On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 1:26:03 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> > > On Mon, 31 May 2021 21:07:24 +0200, Johann Klammer
> > > <klam...@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >On 05/31/2021 02:59 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> > > >>
> > > >> Anybody tried them?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >Hmmm..
> > > >
> > > >Copper Layers 2
> > > Better than one!
> > >
> > > I wonder if they have a 4-layer option.
> > Yes somewhere (i remember a 4 layers quick proto, but cost much more than 2x 2 layers) , I would prototype 2 pcs of 2 layers, but make 4 layers in production.
> 4x the price so all the extra work and limitations on where you can put vias will all most save you enough to buy a cup of coffee

The work is part of the proto process.
My current project have 3 boards.

1. 25x27
2. 50x27
3. 100x60

The complex routings are only in the center 50x27 area, and they are filled with chips also. It might work if i can put chips inside a 6 layers PCB.

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 2:18:58 PM UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 2:05:15 PM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> > mandag den 31. maj 2021 kl. 22.37.08 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee:
> > > On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 1:26:03 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 31 May 2021 21:07:24 +0200, Johann Klammer
> > > > <klam...@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >On 05/31/2021 02:59 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Anybody tried them?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >Hmmm..
> > > > >
> > > > >Copper Layers 2
> > > > Better than one!
> > > >
> > > > I wonder if they have a 4-layer option.
> > > Yes somewhere (i remember a 4 layers quick proto, but cost much more than 2x 2 layers) , I would prototype 2 pcs of 2 layers, but make 4 layers in production.
> > 4x the price so all the extra work and limitations on where you can put vias will all most save you enough to buy a cup of coffee
> The work is part of the proto process.
> My current project have 3 boards.
>
> 1. 25x27
> 2. 50x27
> 3. 100x60
>
> The complex routings are only in the center 50x27 area, and they are filled with chips also. It might work if i can put chips inside a 6 layers PCB.

Pinout for board #2, which would give me 30 ports up and 20 ports down.

//______XL___LW___L_____R____RW___XR___
//_1_____________VB___3v3______________
//_2____________C13___Gnd______________
//_3____________C14____5v______________
//_4____________C15____B9______________
//_5____VB__TBD___R____B8___TBD__3v3___
//_6___TBD__TBD__A0____B7___TBD__TBD___
//_7___TBD__TBD__A1____B6___TBD__TBD___
//_8___TBD___A2______________B5__TBD___
//_9___TBD___A3______________B4__TBD___
//_A___TBD___A4______________B3__TBD___
//_B___TBD___A5_____________A15__TBD___
//_C___TBD___A6_____________A12__TBD___
//_D___TBD___A7_____________A11__TBD___
//_E___TBD__TBD__B0___A10___TBD__TBD___
//_F___TBD__TBD__B1____A9___TBD__TBD___
//_G____5v__TBD__B2____A8___TBD__Gnd___
//_H____________B10___B15______________
//_I____________3v3___B14______________
//_J____________Gnd___B13______________
//_K_____________5v___B12______________

On Mon, 31 May 2021 13:45:44 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 1:40:27 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 May 2021 13:37:05 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
>> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 1:26:03 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 31 May 2021 21:07:24 +0200, Johann Klammer
>> >> <klam...@NOSPAM.a1.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On 05/31/2021 02:59 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/dkred
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Anybody tried them?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >Hmmm..
>> >> >
>> >> >Copper Layers 2
>> >> Better than one!
>> >>
>> >> I wonder if they have a 4-layer option.
>> >
>> >Yes somewhere (i remember a 4 layers quick proto, but cost much more than 2x 2 layers) , I would prototype 2 pcs of 2 layers, but make 4 layers in production.
>> How do you do that? Stack boards with a jillion little wires to
>> connect all the vias?
>
>Yes, line up all the holes and vias. Just a straight wires between boards. It's ugly, but reliable enough for proto.

And labor intensive.

>
>>
>> 4-layer protos are cheap nowadays. Just make sure they will follow
>> your stackup.
>
>It's also easier to debug mult-board stackup. You can't see the traces inside 4 layers proto.

Do you need to? Besides, once you solder all those vias the inner
traces are inaccessable and invisible.

My 4-layer boards are usually traces, ground, power pours, traces. The
inner layers aren't very interesting.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.