I stripped all of the Chorus parts off of the C50 and have them all sitting here ready to install on the Aliverti after Chris finishes with the headset and bottom bracket work. This is a steel bike but I was rather surprised at just how light the frameset was.

It is certainly one of the most beautiful steel bikes I've ever had though the Basso is far from ugly. The Moser is very light but it has about one centimeter too short a wheelbase. We'll see how the Aliverti is after its rolling.

The world is made up of wonderful bikes and great places to ride. Because of the medication I have to take I'm pretty much stuck in and around the bay area. The other day I was starting to have a mild seizure and I could take another Carbomezipine. I can't imagine being out on a tour someplace and having that happen.

But the Basso is very near perfect and I should have kept my original one This one is probably OK but it does have a 2 cm longer top tube than the other. Who knows, maybe after I get used to it, it may have better weight distribution since my upper body is slightly longer than normal.

On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 3:46:57 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> I stripped all of the Chorus parts off of the C50 and have them all sitting here ready to install on the Aliverti after Chris finishes with the headset and bottom bracket work. This is a steel bike but I was rather surprised at just how light the frameset was.
>
> It is certainly one of the most beautiful steel bikes I've ever had though the Basso is far from ugly. The Moser is very light but it has about one centimeter too short a wheelbase. We'll see how the Aliverti is after its rolling.
>
> The world is made up of wonderful bikes and great places to ride. Because of the medication I have to take I'm pretty much stuck in and around the bay area. The other day I was starting to have a mild seizure and I could take another Carbomezipine. I can't imagine being out on a tour someplace and having that happen.
>
> But the Basso is very near perfect and I should have kept my original one This one is probably OK but it does have a 2 cm longer top tube than the other. Who knows, maybe after I get used to it, it may have better weight distribution since my upper body is slightly longer than normal.

Yesterday was absolutely perfect weather for a ride. I did the normal Tuesday Moraga ride and the coffee shop is getting popular among cyclists again. Apparently they don't have the covid-19 beliefs that the stupid six have who all believe that over a million Americans were killed by this illness that only badly effects 0.01% of the population. And that because they are very ill to begin with.

There were four groups of cyclists and bicycles all over the place. I got my coffee and a muffin and there were just enough chairs on the patio to seat everyone when one of our group got up and left since he lives in Dublin and so returns a separate route.

Even though I had done a 25 mile ride on the Basso before and the shifting was flawless, it was entirely screwed up yesterday. In wouldn't shift into the large ring and only 5 of the 11 speeds worked properly. I will work on that today. I intend to take the rear derailleur apart and increase the arm return tension and then reset the cables. These came from Amazon and were supposed to be Shimano stainless steel. Plainly they were not Shimano and they stretched in the 5 days since they were last used. Amazon doesn't allow me to leave feedback since their policy is no negative feedback and I left some rather mild native feedback. Then that means I couldn't leave feedback on bar tape that was 2" too short and that despite not cutting off any small pieces to cover the bar clamp. Amazon also sent me an advertisement for Gatorskins at a good price so I ordered a pair. 3 weeks later then still haven't shipped.

Normally I buy small parts in sets so that I have spares in the future but it appears that Amazon is no longer a good source of parts.

The Basso started out with a short arm rear derailleur so the largest cogset you could use was a 29 tooth cog and that is what was on it. It climbed just as I remembered from the 10 speed groups - mostly fine with some difficult grunts over the 12+% parts. This time the guys I ride with had their light bikes and I could more or less keep up with them. Another couple of rides and I will be back.+

Since this is on the Basso which will be my primary rider, I think I will leave that cogset on. The other two bikes have 11-32 cogsets on them and will retain that. When we go over to the peninsula, I can take the Moser since the roads are usually very clean over there for some reason. There is still a lot of loose gravel even though they've swept the roads on Little Pinehurst and Canyon. I did notice that the recent rain had caused some small landslides so perhaps that is where it was coming from. The cliffs are right up to the road edge.

On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 6:45:28 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 3:46:57 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > I stripped all of the Chorus parts off of the C50 and have them all sitting here ready to install on the Aliverti after Chris finishes with the headset and bottom bracket work. This is a steel bike but I was rather surprised at just how light the frameset was.
> >
> > It is certainly one of the most beautiful steel bikes I've ever had though the Basso is far from ugly. The Moser is very light but it has about one centimeter too short a wheelbase. We'll see how the Aliverti is after its rolling.
> >
> > The world is made up of wonderful bikes and great places to ride. Because of the medication I have to take I'm pretty much stuck in and around the bay area. The other day I was starting to have a mild seizure and I could take another Carbomezipine. I can't imagine being out on a tour someplace and having that happen.
> >
> > But the Basso is very near perfect and I should have kept my original one This one is probably OK but it does have a 2 cm longer top tube than the other. Who knows, maybe after I get used to it, it may have better weight distribution since my upper body is slightly longer than normal.
> Yesterday was absolutely perfect weather for a ride. I did the normal Tuesday Moraga ride and the coffee shop is getting popular among cyclists again. Apparently they don't have the covid-19 beliefs that the stupid six have who all believe that over a million Americans were killed by this illness that only badly effects 0.01% of the population. And that because they are very ill to begin with.
>
> There were four groups of cyclists and bicycles all over the place. I got my coffee and a muffin and there were just enough chairs on the patio to seat everyone when one of our group got up and left since he lives in Dublin and so returns a separate route.
>
> Even though I had done a 25 mile ride on the Basso before and the shifting was flawless, it was entirely screwed up yesterday. In wouldn't shift into the large ring and only 5 of the 11 speeds worked properly. I will work on that today. I intend to take the rear derailleur apart and increase the arm return tension and then reset the cables. These came from Amazon and were supposed to be Shimano stainless steel. Plainly they were not Shimano and they stretched in the 5 days since they were last used. Amazon doesn't allow me to leave feedback since their policy is no negative feedback and I left some rather mild native feedback. Then that means I couldn't leave feedback on bar tape that was 2" too short and that despite not cutting off any small pieces to cover the bar clamp. Amazon also sent me an advertisement for Gatorskins at a good price so I ordered a pair. 3 weeks later then still haven't shipped.
>
> Normally I buy small parts in sets so that I have spares in the future but it appears that Amazon is no longer a good source of parts.
>
> The Basso started out with a short arm rear derailleur so the largest cogset you could use was a 29 tooth cog and that is what was on it. It climbed just as I remembered from the 10 speed groups - mostly fine with some difficult grunts over the 12+% parts. This time the guys I ride with had their light bikes and I could more or less keep up with them. Another couple of rides and I will be back.+
>
> Since this is on the Basso which will be my primary rider, I think I will leave that cogset on. The other two bikes have 11-32 cogsets on them and will retain that. When we go over to the peninsula, I can take the Moser since the roads are usually very clean over there for some reason. There is still a lot of loose gravel even though they've swept the roads on Little Pinehurst and Canyon. I did notice that the recent rain had caused some small landslides so perhaps that is where it was coming from. The cliffs are right up to the road edge.
There were two minor problems, The large ring limit screw could probably be reset and the wire has stretched slightly so that it doesn't quite reach the next click.

And I reset the rebound spring tension. Discovering the correct tension hole was somewhat trial and error but in the end it was perfectly tensioned and worked without setting anything on the rear derailleur except the lower limit screw to eliminate all of the noise. I must say, I have never managed to get the small cog to run perfectly quiet though the second one up can be.. playing with the limit and shifter tension seems to reduce the noise only to a certain level (you probably can't hear it while riding but you can in the garage.) Some of this may be due to those very large idler pulleys since they are direction sensitive.

On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 9:31:12 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 6:45:28 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 3:46:57 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > I stripped all of the Chorus parts off of the C50 and have them all sitting here ready to install on the Aliverti after Chris finishes with the headset and bottom bracket work. This is a steel bike but I was rather surprised at just how light the frameset was.
> > >
> > > It is certainly one of the most beautiful steel bikes I've ever had though the Basso is far from ugly. The Moser is very light but it has about one centimeter too short a wheelbase. We'll see how the Aliverti is after its rolling.
> > >
> > > The world is made up of wonderful bikes and great places to ride. Because of the medication I have to take I'm pretty much stuck in and around the bay area. The other day I was starting to have a mild seizure and I could take another Carbomezipine. I can't imagine being out on a tour someplace and having that happen.
> > >
> > > But the Basso is very near perfect and I should have kept my original one This one is probably OK but it does have a 2 cm longer top tube than the other. Who knows, maybe after I get used to it, it may have better weight distribution since my upper body is slightly longer than normal.
> > Yesterday was absolutely perfect weather for a ride. I did the normal Tuesday Moraga ride and the coffee shop is getting popular among cyclists again. Apparently they don't have the covid-19 beliefs that the stupid six have who all believe that over a million Americans were killed by this illness that only badly effects 0.01% of the population. And that because they are very ill to begin with.
> >
> > There were four groups of cyclists and bicycles all over the place. I got my coffee and a muffin and there were just enough chairs on the patio to seat everyone when one of our group got up and left since he lives in Dublin and so returns a separate route.
> >
> > Even though I had done a 25 mile ride on the Basso before and the shifting was flawless, it was entirely screwed up yesterday. In wouldn't shift into the large ring and only 5 of the 11 speeds worked properly. I will work on that today. I intend to take the rear derailleur apart and increase the arm return tension and then reset the cables. These came from Amazon and were supposed to be Shimano stainless steel. Plainly they were not Shimano and they stretched in the 5 days since they were last used. Amazon doesn't allow me to leave feedback since their policy is no negative feedback and I left some rather mild native feedback. Then that means I couldn't leave feedback on bar tape that was 2" too short and that despite not cutting off any small pieces to cover the bar clamp. Amazon also sent me an advertisement for Gatorskins at a good price so I ordered a pair. 3 weeks later then still haven't shipped.
> >
> > Normally I buy small parts in sets so that I have spares in the future but it appears that Amazon is no longer a good source of parts.
> >
> > The Basso started out with a short arm rear derailleur so the largest cogset you could use was a 29 tooth cog and that is what was on it. It climbed just as I remembered from the 10 speed groups - mostly fine with some difficult grunts over the 12+% parts. This time the guys I ride with had their light bikes and I could more or less keep up with them. Another couple of rides and I will be back.+
> >
> > Since this is on the Basso which will be my primary rider, I think I will leave that cogset on. The other two bikes have 11-32 cogsets on them and will retain that. When we go over to the peninsula, I can take the Moser since the roads are usually very clean over there for some reason. There is still a lot of loose gravel even though they've swept the roads on Little Pinehurst and Canyon. I did notice that the recent rain had caused some small landslides so perhaps that is where it was coming from. The cliffs are right up to the road edge.
> There were two minor problems, The large ring limit screw could probably be reset and the wire has stretched slightly so that it doesn't quite reach the next click.
>
> And I reset the rebound spring tension. Discovering the correct tension hole was somewhat trial and error but in the end it was perfectly tensioned and worked without setting anything on the rear derailleur except the lower limit screw to eliminate all of the noise. I must say, I have never managed to get the small cog to run perfectly quiet though the second one up can be. playing with the limit and shifter tension seems to reduce the noise only to a certain level (you probably can't hear it while riding but you can in the garage.) Some of this may be due to those very large idler pulleys since they are direction sensitive.

On the work stand the shifting worked very well. This morning when I took the bike out the shifting was very spotty with a lot of skipping. I assumed that the problem was it was attempting to hop into a higher gear because it was holding low gear when in the position next to low gear. But it continued having problems until 11 miles out when I finally figure that it was just the opposite of what I was thinking. So I returned the rear derailleur tension to where it was in the morning and it didn't jump a gear for the remainder of the ride, though it would make a loud cracking sound once in awhile which can no doubt be adjusted out.

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 4:10:41 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 9:31:12 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 6:45:28 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 3:46:57 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > I stripped all of the Chorus parts off of the C50 and have them all sitting here ready to install on the Aliverti after Chris finishes with the headset and bottom bracket work. This is a steel bike but I was rather surprised at just how light the frameset was.
> > > >
> > > > It is certainly one of the most beautiful steel bikes I've ever had though the Basso is far from ugly. The Moser is very light but it has about one centimeter too short a wheelbase. We'll see how the Aliverti is after its rolling.
> > > >
> > > > The world is made up of wonderful bikes and great places to ride. Because of the medication I have to take I'm pretty much stuck in and around the bay area. The other day I was starting to have a mild seizure and I could take another Carbomezipine. I can't imagine being out on a tour someplace and having that happen.
> > > >
> > > > But the Basso is very near perfect and I should have kept my original one This one is probably OK but it does have a 2 cm longer top tube than the other. Who knows, maybe after I get used to it, it may have better weight distribution since my upper body is slightly longer than normal.
> > > Yesterday was absolutely perfect weather for a ride. I did the normal Tuesday Moraga ride and the coffee shop is getting popular among cyclists again. Apparently they don't have the covid-19 beliefs that the stupid six have who all believe that over a million Americans were killed by this illness that only badly effects 0.01% of the population. And that because they are very ill to begin with.
> > >
> > > There were four groups of cyclists and bicycles all over the place. I got my coffee and a muffin and there were just enough chairs on the patio to seat everyone when one of our group got up and left since he lives in Dublin and so returns a separate route.
> > >
> > > Even though I had done a 25 mile ride on the Basso before and the shifting was flawless, it was entirely screwed up yesterday. In wouldn't shift into the large ring and only 5 of the 11 speeds worked properly. I will work on that today. I intend to take the rear derailleur apart and increase the arm return tension and then reset the cables. These came from Amazon and were supposed to be Shimano stainless steel. Plainly they were not Shimano and they stretched in the 5 days since they were last used. Amazon doesn't allow me to leave feedback since their policy is no negative feedback and I left some rather mild native feedback. Then that means I couldn't leave feedback on bar tape that was 2" too short and that despite not cutting off any small pieces to cover the bar clamp. Amazon also sent me an advertisement for Gatorskins at a good price so I ordered a pair. 3 weeks later then still haven't shipped.
> > >
> > > Normally I buy small parts in sets so that I have spares in the future but it appears that Amazon is no longer a good source of parts.
> > >
> > > The Basso started out with a short arm rear derailleur so the largest cogset you could use was a 29 tooth cog and that is what was on it. It climbed just as I remembered from the 10 speed groups - mostly fine with some difficult grunts over the 12+% parts. This time the guys I ride with had their light bikes and I could more or less keep up with them. Another couple of rides and I will be back.+
> > >
> > > Since this is on the Basso which will be my primary rider, I think I will leave that cogset on. The other two bikes have 11-32 cogsets on them and will retain that. When we go over to the peninsula, I can take the Moser since the roads are usually very clean over there for some reason. There is still a lot of loose gravel even though they've swept the roads on Little Pinehurst and Canyon. I did notice that the recent rain had caused some small landslides so perhaps that is where it was coming from. The cliffs are right up to the road edge.
> > There were two minor problems, The large ring limit screw could probably be reset and the wire has stretched slightly so that it doesn't quite reach the next click.
> >
> > And I reset the rebound spring tension. Discovering the correct tension hole was somewhat trial and error but in the end it was perfectly tensioned and worked without setting anything on the rear derailleur except the lower limit screw to eliminate all of the noise. I must say, I have never managed to get the small cog to run perfectly quiet though the second one up can be. playing with the limit and shifter tension seems to reduce the noise only to a certain level (you probably can't hear it while riding but you can in the garage.) Some of this may be due to those very large idler pulleys since they are direction sensitive.
> On the work stand the shifting worked very well. This morning when I took the bike out the shifting was very spotty with a lot of skipping. I assumed that the problem was it was attempting to hop into a higher gear because it was holding low gear when in the position next to low gear. But it continued having problems until 11 miles out when I finally figure that it was just the opposite of what I was thinking. So I returned the rear derailleur tension to where it was in the morning and it didn't jump a gear for the remainder of the ride, though it would make a loud cracking sound once in awhile which can no doubt be adjusted out.

Sighh... During washing my 2014 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX last week, the bike fell over on the grass. I didn't think much of it. On the stand a day later I wanted to lube the chain and ran through the gears. It was jumping all over the place. I took me 2 minutes to figure out what was going on: a very slightly bent hanger (hardly visible). I always have a spare one in my spare parts cabinet. Replaced it, problem solved. Elapsed time 15 minutes. Ordered a two new ones from Canyon (also fit on my 2018 Canyon Aeroad), delivered within a week. Excellent service. No f*cking Amazon.

Lou

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 7:40:56 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 4:10:41 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 9:31:12 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 6:45:28 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 3:46:57 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > I stripped all of the Chorus parts off of the C50 and have them all sitting here ready to install on the Aliverti after Chris finishes with the headset and bottom bracket work. This is a steel bike but I was rather surprised at just how light the frameset was.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is certainly one of the most beautiful steel bikes I've ever had though the Basso is far from ugly. The Moser is very light but it has about one centimeter too short a wheelbase. We'll see how the Aliverti is after its rolling.
> > > > >
> > > > > The world is made up of wonderful bikes and great places to ride. Because of the medication I have to take I'm pretty much stuck in and around the bay area. The other day I was starting to have a mild seizure and I could take another Carbomezipine. I can't imagine being out on a tour someplace and having that happen.
> > > > >
> > > > > But the Basso is very near perfect and I should have kept my original one This one is probably OK but it does have a 2 cm longer top tube than the other. Who knows, maybe after I get used to it, it may have better weight distribution since my upper body is slightly longer than normal.
> > > > Yesterday was absolutely perfect weather for a ride. I did the normal Tuesday Moraga ride and the coffee shop is getting popular among cyclists again. Apparently they don't have the covid-19 beliefs that the stupid six have who all believe that over a million Americans were killed by this illness that only badly effects 0.01% of the population. And that because they are very ill to begin with.
> > > >
> > > > There were four groups of cyclists and bicycles all over the place. I got my coffee and a muffin and there were just enough chairs on the patio to seat everyone when one of our group got up and left since he lives in Dublin and so returns a separate route.
> > > >
> > > > Even though I had done a 25 mile ride on the Basso before and the shifting was flawless, it was entirely screwed up yesterday. In wouldn't shift into the large ring and only 5 of the 11 speeds worked properly. I will work on that today. I intend to take the rear derailleur apart and increase the arm return tension and then reset the cables. These came from Amazon and were supposed to be Shimano stainless steel. Plainly they were not Shimano and they stretched in the 5 days since they were last used. Amazon doesn't allow me to leave feedback since their policy is no negative feedback and I left some rather mild native feedback. Then that means I couldn't leave feedback on bar tape that was 2" too short and that despite not cutting off any small pieces to cover the bar clamp. Amazon also sent me an advertisement for Gatorskins at a good price so I ordered a pair. 3 weeks later then still haven't shipped.
> > > >
> > > > Normally I buy small parts in sets so that I have spares in the future but it appears that Amazon is no longer a good source of parts.
> > > >
> > > > The Basso started out with a short arm rear derailleur so the largest cogset you could use was a 29 tooth cog and that is what was on it. It climbed just as I remembered from the 10 speed groups - mostly fine with some difficult grunts over the 12+% parts. This time the guys I ride with had their light bikes and I could more or less keep up with them. Another couple of rides and I will be back.+
> > > >
> > > > Since this is on the Basso which will be my primary rider, I think I will leave that cogset on. The other two bikes have 11-32 cogsets on them and will retain that. When we go over to the peninsula, I can take the Moser since the roads are usually very clean over there for some reason. There is still a lot of loose gravel even though they've swept the roads on Little Pinehurst and Canyon. I did notice that the recent rain had caused some small landslides so perhaps that is where it was coming from. The cliffs are right up to the road edge.
> > > There were two minor problems, The large ring limit screw could probably be reset and the wire has stretched slightly so that it doesn't quite reach the next click.
> > >
> > > And I reset the rebound spring tension. Discovering the correct tension hole was somewhat trial and error but in the end it was perfectly tensioned and worked without setting anything on the rear derailleur except the lower limit screw to eliminate all of the noise. I must say, I have never managed to get the small cog to run perfectly quiet though the second one up can be. playing with the limit and shifter tension seems to reduce the noise only to a certain level (you probably can't hear it while riding but you can in the garage.) Some of this may be due to those very large idler pulleys since they are direction sensitive.
> > On the work stand the shifting worked very well. This morning when I took the bike out the shifting was very spotty with a lot of skipping. I assumed that the problem was it was attempting to hop into a higher gear because it was holding low gear when in the position next to low gear. But it continued having problems until 11 miles out when I finally figure that it was just the opposite of what I was thinking. So I returned the rear derailleur tension to where it was in the morning and it didn't jump a gear for the remainder of the ride, though it would make a loud cracking sound once in awhile which can no doubt be adjusted out.
> Sighh... During washing my 2014 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX last week, the bike fell over on the grass. I didn't think much of it. On the stand a day later I wanted to lube the chain and ran through the gears. It was jumping all over the place. I took me 2 minutes to figure out what was going on: a very slightly bent hanger (hardly visible). I always have a spare one in my spare parts cabinet. Replaced it, problem solved. Elapsed time 15 minutes. Ordered a two new ones from Canyon (also fit on my 2018 Canyon Aeroad), delivered within a week. Excellent service. No f*cking Amazon.
>
> Lou

Lou, that is not the case here. I have a derailleur alignment jig and all of that is fine. The problem appears to be the slight play in the idler axles. I am convinced that if you have everything perfectly aligned FOR RIDING, that it will work properly. The loading of the derailleur on the workstand is different.

Again I will mention that the cranks seem to turn very easy when everything is lined up. Remember that the racing teams are using these enlarged idler pulleys. Considering your opinion on the actual improvement in pedal friction I have been attempting to see whether or not it is purely imagination. I can't honestly say whether or not it is.

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 5:10:53 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 7:40:56 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 4:10:41 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 9:31:12 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 6:45:28 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 3:46:57 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > I stripped all of the Chorus parts off of the C50 and have them all sitting here ready to install on the Aliverti after Chris finishes with the headset and bottom bracket work. This is a steel bike but I was rather surprised at just how light the frameset was.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is certainly one of the most beautiful steel bikes I've ever had though the Basso is far from ugly. The Moser is very light but it has about one centimeter too short a wheelbase. We'll see how the Aliverti is after its rolling.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The world is made up of wonderful bikes and great places to ride. Because of the medication I have to take I'm pretty much stuck in and around the bay area. The other day I was starting to have a mild seizure and I could take another Carbomezipine. I can't imagine being out on a tour someplace and having that happen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But the Basso is very near perfect and I should have kept my original one This one is probably OK but it does have a 2 cm longer top tube than the other. Who knows, maybe after I get used to it, it may have better weight distribution since my upper body is slightly longer than normal.
> > > > > Yesterday was absolutely perfect weather for a ride. I did the normal Tuesday Moraga ride and the coffee shop is getting popular among cyclists again. Apparently they don't have the covid-19 beliefs that the stupid six have who all believe that over a million Americans were killed by this illness that only badly effects 0.01% of the population. And that because they are very ill to begin with.
> > > > >
> > > > > There were four groups of cyclists and bicycles all over the place. I got my coffee and a muffin and there were just enough chairs on the patio to seat everyone when one of our group got up and left since he lives in Dublin and so returns a separate route.
> > > > >
> > > > > Even though I had done a 25 mile ride on the Basso before and the shifting was flawless, it was entirely screwed up yesterday. In wouldn't shift into the large ring and only 5 of the 11 speeds worked properly. I will work on that today. I intend to take the rear derailleur apart and increase the arm return tension and then reset the cables. These came from Amazon and were supposed to be Shimano stainless steel. Plainly they were not Shimano and they stretched in the 5 days since they were last used. Amazon doesn't allow me to leave feedback since their policy is no negative feedback and I left some rather mild native feedback. Then that means I couldn't leave feedback on bar tape that was 2" too short and that despite not cutting off any small pieces to cover the bar clamp. Amazon also sent me an advertisement for Gatorskins at a good price so I ordered a pair. 3 weeks later then still haven't shipped.
> > > > >
> > > > > Normally I buy small parts in sets so that I have spares in the future but it appears that Amazon is no longer a good source of parts.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Basso started out with a short arm rear derailleur so the largest cogset you could use was a 29 tooth cog and that is what was on it. It climbed just as I remembered from the 10 speed groups - mostly fine with some difficult grunts over the 12+% parts. This time the guys I ride with had their light bikes and I could more or less keep up with them. Another couple of rides and I will be back.+
> > > > >
> > > > > Since this is on the Basso which will be my primary rider, I think I will leave that cogset on. The other two bikes have 11-32 cogsets on them and will retain that. When we go over to the peninsula, I can take the Moser since the roads are usually very clean over there for some reason. There is still a lot of loose gravel even though they've swept the roads on Little Pinehurst and Canyon. I did notice that the recent rain had caused some small landslides so perhaps that is where it was coming from. The cliffs are right up to the road edge.
> > > > There were two minor problems, The large ring limit screw could probably be reset and the wire has stretched slightly so that it doesn't quite reach the next click.
> > > >
> > > > And I reset the rebound spring tension. Discovering the correct tension hole was somewhat trial and error but in the end it was perfectly tensioned and worked without setting anything on the rear derailleur except the lower limit screw to eliminate all of the noise. I must say, I have never managed to get the small cog to run perfectly quiet though the second one up can be. playing with the limit and shifter tension seems to reduce the noise only to a certain level (you probably can't hear it while riding but you can in the garage.) Some of this may be due to those very large idler pulleys since they are direction sensitive.
> > > On the work stand the shifting worked very well. This morning when I took the bike out the shifting was very spotty with a lot of skipping. I assumed that the problem was it was attempting to hop into a higher gear because it was holding low gear when in the position next to low gear. But it continued having problems until 11 miles out when I finally figure that it was just the opposite of what I was thinking. So I returned the rear derailleur tension to where it was in the morning and it didn't jump a gear for the remainder of the ride, though it would make a loud cracking sound once in awhile which can no doubt be adjusted out.
> > Sighh... During washing my 2014 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX last week, the bike fell over on the grass. I didn't think much of it. On the stand a day later I wanted to lube the chain and ran through the gears. It was jumping all over the place. I took me 2 minutes to figure out what was going on: a very slightly bent hanger (hardly visible). I always have a spare one in my spare parts cabinet. Replaced it, problem solved. Elapsed time 15 minutes. Ordered a two new ones from Canyon (also fit on my 2018 Canyon Aeroad), delivered within a week. Excellent service. No f*cking Amazon.
> >
> > Lou
> Lou, that is not the case here. I have a derailleur alignment jig and all of that is fine. The problem appears to be the slight play in the idler axles. I am convinced that if you have everything perfectly aligned FOR RIDING, that it will work properly. The loading of the derailleur on the workstand is different.

Radial play in the pulleys is a failure mode that is often overlooked. First it causes sloppy shifting. When this occurs the pulleys should be replaced but often people try to solve that with ‘over’ adjusting. It works on the downshifts but make it worse on the up shifts or vica versa or it doesn’t shift properly on the upper gears or lower gears. Pulleys don’t only wear out by wearing out the teeth but also by too much radial play which causes hysteresis. Same goes for the chain with too much lateral movement if you cross chain too much especially in muddy conditions.
>
> Again I will mention that the cranks seem to turn very easy when everything is lined up. Remember that the racing teams are using these enlarged idler pulleys. Considering your opinion on the actual improvement in pedal friction I have been attempting to see whether or not it is purely imagination.. I can't honestly say whether or not it is.

The pulley are in the nin tensioned part of the chain. Bigger pulleys don’t make any noticeable difference. They are less noisy though.

Lou

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:20:35 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 5:10:53 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 7:40:56 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 4:10:41 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 9:31:12 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 6:45:28 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 3:46:57 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > I stripped all of the Chorus parts off of the C50 and have them all sitting here ready to install on the Aliverti after Chris finishes with the headset and bottom bracket work. This is a steel bike but I was rather surprised at just how light the frameset was.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is certainly one of the most beautiful steel bikes I've ever had though the Basso is far from ugly. The Moser is very light but it has about one centimeter too short a wheelbase. We'll see how the Aliverti is after its rolling.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The world is made up of wonderful bikes and great places to ride. Because of the medication I have to take I'm pretty much stuck in and around the bay area. The other day I was starting to have a mild seizure and I could take another Carbomezipine. I can't imagine being out on a tour someplace and having that happen.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But the Basso is very near perfect and I should have kept my original one This one is probably OK but it does have a 2 cm longer top tube than the other. Who knows, maybe after I get used to it, it may have better weight distribution since my upper body is slightly longer than normal.
> > > > > > Yesterday was absolutely perfect weather for a ride. I did the normal Tuesday Moraga ride and the coffee shop is getting popular among cyclists again. Apparently they don't have the covid-19 beliefs that the stupid six have who all believe that over a million Americans were killed by this illness that only badly effects 0.01% of the population. And that because they are very ill to begin with.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There were four groups of cyclists and bicycles all over the place. I got my coffee and a muffin and there were just enough chairs on the patio to seat everyone when one of our group got up and left since he lives in Dublin and so returns a separate route.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Even though I had done a 25 mile ride on the Basso before and the shifting was flawless, it was entirely screwed up yesterday. In wouldn't shift into the large ring and only 5 of the 11 speeds worked properly. I will work on that today. I intend to take the rear derailleur apart and increase the arm return tension and then reset the cables. These came from Amazon and were supposed to be Shimano stainless steel. Plainly they were not Shimano and they stretched in the 5 days since they were last used. Amazon doesn't allow me to leave feedback since their policy is no negative feedback and I left some rather mild native feedback. Then that means I couldn't leave feedback on bar tape that was 2" too short and that despite not cutting off any small pieces to cover the bar clamp. Amazon also sent me an advertisement for Gatorskins at a good price so I ordered a pair. 3 weeks later then still haven't shipped.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Normally I buy small parts in sets so that I have spares in the future but it appears that Amazon is no longer a good source of parts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Basso started out with a short arm rear derailleur so the largest cogset you could use was a 29 tooth cog and that is what was on it. It climbed just as I remembered from the 10 speed groups - mostly fine with some difficult grunts over the 12+% parts. This time the guys I ride with had their light bikes and I could more or less keep up with them. Another couple of rides and I will be back.+
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since this is on the Basso which will be my primary rider, I think I will leave that cogset on. The other two bikes have 11-32 cogsets on them and will retain that. When we go over to the peninsula, I can take the Moser since the roads are usually very clean over there for some reason. There is still a lot of loose gravel even though they've swept the roads on Little Pinehurst and Canyon. I did notice that the recent rain had caused some small landslides so perhaps that is where it was coming from. The cliffs are right up to the road edge.
> > > > > There were two minor problems, The large ring limit screw could probably be reset and the wire has stretched slightly so that it doesn't quite reach the next click.
> > > > >
> > > > > And I reset the rebound spring tension. Discovering the correct tension hole was somewhat trial and error but in the end it was perfectly tensioned and worked without setting anything on the rear derailleur except the lower limit screw to eliminate all of the noise. I must say, I have never managed to get the small cog to run perfectly quiet though the second one up can be. playing with the limit and shifter tension seems to reduce the noise only to a certain level (you probably can't hear it while riding but you can in the garage.) Some of this may be due to those very large idler pulleys since they are direction sensitive.
> > > > On the work stand the shifting worked very well. This morning when I took the bike out the shifting was very spotty with a lot of skipping. I assumed that the problem was it was attempting to hop into a higher gear because it was holding low gear when in the position next to low gear. But it continued having problems until 11 miles out when I finally figure that it was just the opposite of what I was thinking. So I returned the rear derailleur tension to where it was in the morning and it didn't jump a gear for the remainder of the ride, though it would make a loud cracking sound once in awhile which can no doubt be adjusted out.
> > > Sighh... During washing my 2014 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX last week, the bike fell over on the grass. I didn't think much of it. On the stand a day later I wanted to lube the chain and ran through the gears. It was jumping all over the place. I took me 2 minutes to figure out what was going on: a very slightly bent hanger (hardly visible). I always have a spare one in my spare parts cabinet. Replaced it, problem solved. Elapsed time 15 minutes.. Ordered a two new ones from Canyon (also fit on my 2018 Canyon Aeroad), delivered within a week. Excellent service. No f*cking Amazon.
> > >
> > > Lou
> > Lou, that is not the case here. I have a derailleur alignment jig and all of that is fine. The problem appears to be the slight play in the idler axles. I am convinced that if you have everything perfectly aligned FOR RIDING, that it will work properly. The loading of the derailleur on the workstand is different.
> Radial play in the pulleys is a failure mode that is often overlooked. First it causes sloppy shifting. When this occurs the pulleys should be replaced but often people try to solve that with ‘over’ adjusting. It works on the downshifts but make it worse on the up shifts or vica versa or it doesn’t shift properly on the upper gears or lower gears. Pulleys don’t only wear out by wearing out the teeth but also by too much radial play which causes hysteresis. Same goes for the chain with too much lateral movement if you cross chain too much especially in muddy conditions.
> >
> > Again I will mention that the cranks seem to turn very easy when everything is lined up. Remember that the racing teams are using these enlarged idler pulleys. Considering your opinion on the actual improvement in pedal friction I have been attempting to see whether or not it is purely imagination. I can't honestly say whether or not it is.
> The pulley are in the nin tensioned part of the chain. Bigger pulleys don’t make any noticeable difference. They are less noisy though.

There isn't enough play in the pulleys to cause it to shift badly is you have it adjusted spot on. But you can't find that spot by doing it on the bench. You have to do it under load. And that is a royal pain in the butt. My normal medium arm derailleurs, set up perfectly on the workstand and work perfectly under way. Of course the idlers are much smaller so the same amount of play in the bushings wouldn't allow the chain to move.

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 5:38:24 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:20:35 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 5:10:53 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 7:40:56 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 4:10:41 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 9:31:12 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 6:45:28 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 3:46:57 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > > > > > I stripped all of the Chorus parts off of the C50 and have them all sitting here ready to install on the Aliverti after Chris finishes with the headset and bottom bracket work. This is a steel bike but I was rather surprised at just how light the frameset was.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It is certainly one of the most beautiful steel bikes I've ever had though the Basso is far from ugly. The Moser is very light but it has about one centimeter too short a wheelbase. We'll see how the Aliverti is after its rolling.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The world is made up of wonderful bikes and great places to ride. Because of the medication I have to take I'm pretty much stuck in and around the bay area. The other day I was starting to have a mild seizure and I could take another Carbomezipine. I can't imagine being out on a tour someplace and having that happen.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But the Basso is very near perfect and I should have kept my original one This one is probably OK but it does have a 2 cm longer top tube than the other. Who knows, maybe after I get used to it, it may have better weight distribution since my upper body is slightly longer than normal..
> > > > > > > Yesterday was absolutely perfect weather for a ride. I did the normal Tuesday Moraga ride and the coffee shop is getting popular among cyclists again. Apparently they don't have the covid-19 beliefs that the stupid six have who all believe that over a million Americans were killed by this illness that only badly effects 0.01% of the population. And that because they are very ill to begin with.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There were four groups of cyclists and bicycles all over the place. I got my coffee and a muffin and there were just enough chairs on the patio to seat everyone when one of our group got up and left since he lives in Dublin and so returns a separate route.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Even though I had done a 25 mile ride on the Basso before and the shifting was flawless, it was entirely screwed up yesterday. In wouldn't shift into the large ring and only 5 of the 11 speeds worked properly. I will work on that today. I intend to take the rear derailleur apart and increase the arm return tension and then reset the cables. These came from Amazon and were supposed to be Shimano stainless steel. Plainly they were not Shimano and they stretched in the 5 days since they were last used. Amazon doesn't allow me to leave feedback since their policy is no negative feedback and I left some rather mild native feedback. Then that means I couldn't leave feedback on bar tape that was 2" too short and that despite not cutting off any small pieces to cover the bar clamp. Amazon also sent me an advertisement for Gatorskins at a good price so I ordered a pair. 3 weeks later then still haven't shipped.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Normally I buy small parts in sets so that I have spares in the future but it appears that Amazon is no longer a good source of parts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Basso started out with a short arm rear derailleur so the largest cogset you could use was a 29 tooth cog and that is what was on it.. It climbed just as I remembered from the 10 speed groups - mostly fine with some difficult grunts over the 12+% parts. This time the guys I ride with had their light bikes and I could more or less keep up with them. Another couple of rides and I will be back.+
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since this is on the Basso which will be my primary rider, I think I will leave that cogset on. The other two bikes have 11-32 cogsets on them and will retain that. When we go over to the peninsula, I can take the Moser since the roads are usually very clean over there for some reason. There is still a lot of loose gravel even though they've swept the roads on Little Pinehurst and Canyon. I did notice that the recent rain had caused some small landslides so perhaps that is where it was coming from. The cliffs are right up to the road edge.
> > > > > > There were two minor problems, The large ring limit screw could probably be reset and the wire has stretched slightly so that it doesn't quite reach the next click.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And I reset the rebound spring tension. Discovering the correct tension hole was somewhat trial and error but in the end it was perfectly tensioned and worked without setting anything on the rear derailleur except the lower limit screw to eliminate all of the noise. I must say, I have never managed to get the small cog to run perfectly quiet though the second one up can be. playing with the limit and shifter tension seems to reduce the noise only to a certain level (you probably can't hear it while riding but you can in the garage.) Some of this may be due to those very large idler pulleys since they are direction sensitive.
> > > > > On the work stand the shifting worked very well. This morning when I took the bike out the shifting was very spotty with a lot of skipping. I assumed that the problem was it was attempting to hop into a higher gear because it was holding low gear when in the position next to low gear. But it continued having problems until 11 miles out when I finally figure that it was just the opposite of what I was thinking. So I returned the rear derailleur tension to where it was in the morning and it didn't jump a gear for the remainder of the ride, though it would make a loud cracking sound once in awhile which can no doubt be adjusted out.
> > > > Sighh... During washing my 2014 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX last week, the bike fell over on the grass. I didn't think much of it. On the stand a day later I wanted to lube the chain and ran through the gears. It was jumping all over the place. I took me 2 minutes to figure out what was going on: a very slightly bent hanger (hardly visible). I always have a spare one in my spare parts cabinet. Replaced it, problem solved. Elapsed time 15 minutes. Ordered a two new ones from Canyon (also fit on my 2018 Canyon Aeroad), delivered within a week. Excellent service. No f*cking Amazon.
> > > >
> > > > Lou
> > > Lou, that is not the case here. I have a derailleur alignment jig and all of that is fine. The problem appears to be the slight play in the idler axles. I am convinced that if you have everything perfectly aligned FOR RIDING, that it will work properly. The loading of the derailleur on the workstand is different.
> > Radial play in the pulleys is a failure mode that is often overlooked. First it causes sloppy shifting. When this occurs the pulleys should be replaced but often people try to solve that with ‘over’ adjusting. It works on the downshifts but make it worse on the up shifts or vica versa or it doesn’t shift properly on the upper gears or lower gears. Pulleys don’t only wear out by wearing out the teeth but also by too much radial play which causes hysteresis. Same goes for the chain with too much lateral movement if you cross chain too much especially in muddy conditions.
> > >
> > > Again I will mention that the cranks seem to turn very easy when everything is lined up. Remember that the racing teams are using these enlarged idler pulleys. Considering your opinion on the actual improvement in pedal friction I have been attempting to see whether or not it is purely imagination. I can't honestly say whether or not it is.
> > The pulley are in the nin tensioned part of the chain. Bigger pulleys don’t make any noticeable difference. They are less noisy though.
> There isn't enough play in the pulleys to cause it to shift badly is you have it adjusted spot on. But you can't find that spot by doing it on the bench. You have to do it under load. And that is a royal pain in the butt. My normal medium arm derailleurs, set up perfectly on the workstand and work perfectly under way. Of course the idlers are much smaller so the same amount of play in the bushings wouldn't allow the chain to move.
Lou, I was saying that the bike with the large idler pullies seem to ride very easily. Well, I finished the Aliverti yesterday and took it for a ride today - 33 miles. And just as you suspected, it had nothing to do with the 2nd party rear derailleur arm but I guess my legs are improving a lot faster than I suspected.

My top power seems really low though. Where I used to be able to sprint up to 30 mph or more, I can't even hit 20 now. But so far, I can climb anything around here.