I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.

https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/

I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
different than "is directly caused by."

Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.
>
> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
>
> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
> different than "is directly caused by."
>
> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
They were probably weekend tokers with no tolerance who inadvertently smoked some herb that was too strong for them and got a brain freeze or misfire while riding.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 10:44:41 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
<retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.
>>
>> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
>>
>> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
>> different than "is directly caused by."
>>
>> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>They were probably weekend tokers with no tolerance who inadvertently smoked some herb that was too strong for them and got a brain freeze or misfire while riding.

I see no reason why DUI laws shouldn't apply to bicyclists using
public roads, trails, etc.

On 9/28/2022 11:40 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It
> sounds incredible.
>
> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
>
>
> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to."
> That's much different than "is directly caused by."
>
> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original
> paper.
>

I don't either but as an amateur observer of the culture I
believe that's probably right.

Have you noticed the increased incidence and fatality rates
of wrong-way drivers? I would posit that's a deadly
combination of dope and carry-around telephones.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:50:14 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 10:44:41 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
> <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.
> >>
> >> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
> >>
> >> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
> >> different than "is directly caused by."
> >>
> >> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.
> >>
> >> --
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >They were probably weekend tokers with no tolerance who inadvertently smoked some herb that was too strong for them and got a brain freeze or misfire while riding.
> I see no reason why DUI laws shouldn't apply to bicyclists using
> public roads, trails, etc.

Who do you suppose Krygowski is trying to fool? He's probably been a lifelong doper. He probably doesn't like weed because it doesn't have the same kick as his stash of
Oxycontin. I never had any use for drugs after watching all of the guys in the bands I played in and the band my brother played for ALL every last single one of them die from the drugs.

I fell down at the side of my house at a dead sop when I couldn't unclip and high sided. The doctor prescribed Oxycontin and three weeks of physical therapy. After the third dose of Oxycontin I could tell that it was a powerful opioid and stopped taking it. By that time the initial pain was reduced and ibuprofen worked just as well anyway.

But from his remarks, Francis is probably up to Fentanyl by now.

On 9/28/2022 12:44 PM, William Crowell wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.
>>
>> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
>>
>> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
>> different than "is directly caused by."
>>
>> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
> They were probably weekend tokers with no tolerance who inadvertently smoked some herb that was too strong for them and got a brain freeze or misfire while riding.
>

You may be right.

Anecdotally (I am not a user myself) edibles seem to be a
growing problem because one might easily ingest a dosage
well above the point at which a smoker would simply pass out
while the edibles are still being digested.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/28/2022 12:50 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 10:44:41 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
> <retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.
>>>
>>> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
>>>
>>> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
>>> different than "is directly caused by."
>>>
>>> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> They were probably weekend tokers with no tolerance who inadvertently smoked some herb that was too strong for them and got a brain freeze or misfire while riding.
>
> I see no reason why DUI laws shouldn't apply to bicyclists using
> public roads, trails, etc.
>

Because there's no definitive metabolite test for THC. The
'impaired' law does apply but enforcement is sketchy when
contested in court.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 11:10:01 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/28/2022 12:44 PM, William Crowell wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.
> >>
> >> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
> >>
> >> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
> >> different than "is directly caused by."
> >>
> >> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.
> >>
> >> --
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> > They were probably weekend tokers with no tolerance who inadvertently smoked some herb that was too strong for them and got a brain freeze or misfire while riding.
> >
> You may be right.
>
> Anecdotally (I am not a user myself) edibles seem to be a
> growing problem because one might easily ingest a dosage
> well above the point at which a smoker would simply pass out
> while the edibles are still being digested.

I have always been curious as to why someone would purposely reduce their observation of reality. During the Hippy days, all you had to do was walk around San Francisco to see that half the people under 30 there had no idea of what was going on around them.

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 11:12:11 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/28/2022 12:50 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 10:44:41 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
> > <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
> >>>
> >>> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
> >>> different than "is directly caused by."
> >>>
> >>> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> - Frank Krygowski
> >> They were probably weekend tokers with no tolerance who inadvertently smoked some herb that was too strong for them and got a brain freeze or misfire while riding.
> >
> > I see no reason why DUI laws shouldn't apply to bicyclists using
> > public roads, trails, etc.
> >
> Because there's no definitive metabolite test for THC. The
> 'impaired' law does apply but enforcement is sketchy when
> contested in court.

THC is easy to detect but very difficult to tell whether the dosage is high enough to represent impairment.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 13:12:13 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/28/2022 12:50 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 10:44:41 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
>> <retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
>>>>
>>>> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
>>>> different than "is directly caused by."
>>>>
>>>> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>> They were probably weekend tokers with no tolerance who inadvertently smoked some herb that was too strong for them and got a brain freeze or misfire while riding.
>>
>> I see no reason why DUI laws shouldn't apply to bicyclists using
>> public roads, trails, etc.
>>
>
>Because there's no definitive metabolite test for THC. The
>'impaired' law does apply but enforcement is sketchy when
>contested in court.

I'm thinking the "walk a straight line" or the "follow with eyes"
tests might work, but yes, I do understand your "metabolite test"
issue. A blood draw might solve it, but that introduces a whole other
set of privacy issues.

On 9/28/2022 2:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> I have always been curious as to why someone would purposely reduce their observation of reality. During the Hippy days, all you had to do was walk around San Francisco to see that half the people under 30 there had no idea of what was going on around them.

It's at least partly due to fashion. It becomes trendy and people decide
to try it.

I note that there are people who condemn cannabis use but choose to
consume alcohol. Perhaps this issue, like most, is more complicated than
the usual knee-jerkers can rationally handle.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/28/2022 2:06 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/28/2022 11:40 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It
>> sounds incredible.
>>
>> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
>>
>>
>> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to."
>> That's much different than "is directly caused by."
>>
>> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original
>> paper.
>>
>
> I don't either but as an amateur observer of the culture I believe
> that's probably right.
>
> Have you noticed the increased incidence and fatality rates of wrong-way
> drivers? I would posit that's a deadly combination of dope and
> carry-around telephones.

That's an interesting hypothesis.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 14:43:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 9/28/2022 2:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> I have always been curious as to why someone would purposely reduce their observation of reality. During the Hippy days, all you had to do was walk around San Francisco to see that half the people under 30 there had no idea of what was going on around them.
>
>It's at least partly due to fashion. It becomes trendy and people decide
>to try it.
>
>I note that there are people who condemn cannabis use but choose to
>consume alcohol. Perhaps this issue, like most, is more complicated than
>the usual knee-jerkers can rationally handle.

Not all that many people condemn it, but many choose not to partake of
it. One issue is not knowing the strength of the MJ. As for me, I
choose a little booze.

On 9/28/2022 1:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 11:10:01 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 9/28/2022 12:44 PM, William Crowell wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
>>>>
>>>> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
>>>> different than "is directly caused by."
>>>>
>>>> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>> They were probably weekend tokers with no tolerance who inadvertently smoked some herb that was too strong for them and got a brain freeze or misfire while riding.
>>>
>> You may be right.
>>
>> Anecdotally (I am not a user myself) edibles seem to be a
>> growing problem because one might easily ingest a dosage
>> well above the point at which a smoker would simply pass out
>> while the edibles are still being digested.
>
> I have always been curious as to why someone would purposely reduce their observation of reality. During the Hippy days, all you had to do was walk around San Francisco to see that half the people under 30 there had no idea of what was going on around them.
>

Hey I resemble that remark.
That was I there then.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/28/2022 1:31 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 13:12:13 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 9/28/2022 12:50 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 10:44:41 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
>>> <retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
>>>>> different than "is directly caused by."
>>>>>
>>>>> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>> They were probably weekend tokers with no tolerance who inadvertently smoked some herb that was too strong for them and got a brain freeze or misfire while riding.
>>>
>>> I see no reason why DUI laws shouldn't apply to bicyclists using
>>> public roads, trails, etc.
>>>
>>
>> Because there's no definitive metabolite test for THC. The
>> 'impaired' law does apply but enforcement is sketchy when
>> contested in court.
>
> I'm thinking the "walk a straight line" or the "follow with eyes"
> tests might work, but yes, I do understand your "metabolite test"
> issue. A blood draw might solve it, but that introduces a whole other
> set of privacy issues.
>

In most States that bridge has been crossed. For alcohol,
the officer's opinion is enough 'probable cause' to request
a breath test. Refusal of that test can lead to a hospital
blood test but more importantly refusal itself can be taken
as evidence of impairment by the court.

The wrinkle with THC is that there's no definitive test.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 14:29:35 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/28/2022 1:31 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 13:12:13 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/28/2022 12:50 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 10:44:41 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
>>>> <retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
>>>>>> different than "is directly caused by."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>> They were probably weekend tokers with no tolerance who inadvertently smoked some herb that was too strong for them and got a brain freeze or misfire while riding.
>>>>
>>>> I see no reason why DUI laws shouldn't apply to bicyclists using
>>>> public roads, trails, etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because there's no definitive metabolite test for THC. The
>>> 'impaired' law does apply but enforcement is sketchy when
>>> contested in court.
>>
>> I'm thinking the "walk a straight line" or the "follow with eyes"
>> tests might work, but yes, I do understand your "metabolite test"
>> issue. A blood draw might solve it, but that introduces a whole other
>> set of privacy issues.
>>
>
>In most States that bridge has been crossed. For alcohol,
>the officer's opinion is enough 'probable cause' to request
>a breath test. Refusal of that test can lead to a hospital
>blood test but more importantly refusal itself can be taken
>as evidence of impairment by the court.
>
>The wrinkle with THC is that there's no definitive test.

Is the issue that they can't establish the amount of THC in the blood,
or the ambiguity of the strength of the THC and it's effect?

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 12:40:58 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.
>
>https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
>
>I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
>different than "is directly caused by."
>
>Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.

Well, a substantial number involve alcohol so why not "Pot"?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5248656/

--
Cheers,

John B.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 9/28/2022 2:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> I have always been curious as to why someone would purposely reduce
>> their observation of reality. During the Hippy days, all you had to do
>> was walk around San Francisco to see that half the people under 30 there
>> had no idea of what was going on around them.
>
> It's at least partly due to fashion. It becomes trendy and people decide
> to try it.
>
> I note that there are people who condemn cannabis use but choose to
> consume alcohol. Perhaps this issue, like most, is more complicated than
> the usual knee-jerkers can rationally handle.
>
Well indeed folks have enjoyed getting high with various drugs for 1000 of
years, clearly large number of folks enjoy it, as ever taken to excess and
all that.

For the record I don’t drink as is common for folks like me, I’m hyper
sensitive to alcohol, no idea what cannabis would do at this point but I’m
unwilling to risk it!

Roger Merriman.

Peut-être ne le critiquez pas si vous ne l’avez pas essayé.

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 6:45:52 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>
> Well, a substantial number involve alcohol so why not "Pot"?
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5248656/

That paper:
"ALCOHOL USE BY URBAN BICYCLISTS IS ASSOCIATED WITH MORE SEVERE INJURY,
GREATER HOSPITAL RESOURCE USE, AND HIGHER MORTALITY."

Gosh, really? Who would have thought?

- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 5:43:56 PM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
> Peut-être ne le critiquez pas si vous ne l’avez pas essayé.

I don't have to try it. I spent a lot of time around people that believed that it was perfectly harmless as it ended up hooking them on heavier stuff.

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 3:37:45 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 5:43:56 PM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
> > Peut-être ne le critiquez pas si vous ne l’avez pas essayé.
> I don't have to try it. I spent a lot of time around people that believed that it was perfectly harmless as it ended up hooking them on heavier stuff.

Correlation is not causation. By that same "logic", aspirin causes all drug addiction because virtually every addict took aspirin before graduating to the hard stuff.

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 3:37:14 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 14:29:35 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >On 9/28/2022 1:31 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 13:12:13 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 9/28/2022 12:50 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 10:44:41 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
> >>>> <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
> >>>>>> different than "is directly caused by."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>>> They were probably weekend tokers with no tolerance who inadvertently smoked some herb that was too strong for them and got a brain freeze or misfire while riding.
> >>>>
> >>>> I see no reason why DUI laws shouldn't apply to bicyclists using
> >>>> public roads, trails, etc.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Because there's no definitive metabolite test for THC. The
> >>> 'impaired' law does apply but enforcement is sketchy when
> >>> contested in court.
> >>
> >> I'm thinking the "walk a straight line" or the "follow with eyes"
> >> tests might work, but yes, I do understand your "metabolite test"
> >> issue. A blood draw might solve it, but that introduces a whole other
> >> set of privacy issues.
> >>
> >
> >In most States that bridge has been crossed. For alcohol,
> >the officer's opinion is enough 'probable cause' to request
> >a breath test. Refusal of that test can lead to a hospital
> >blood test but more importantly refusal itself can be taken
> >as evidence of impairment by the court.
> >
> >The wrinkle with THC is that there's no definitive test.
> Is the issue that they can't establish the amount of THC in the blood,
> or the ambiguity of the strength of the THC and it's effect?

No, the issue is that THC is present in the bloodstream long after the effects have worn off, and the amount of THC present in the system isn't a reliable indicator of impairment (as blood alcohol level is...sort of)

https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/field-sobriety-tests-and-thc-levels-unreliable-indicators-marijuana-intoxication

"Many of their study participants had significantly decreased cognitive and psychomotor functioning even when their blood, urine, and oral fluid contained low levels of THC. The researchers also observed that standardized field sobriety tests commonly used to detect driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol were not effective in detecting marijuana intoxication."

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 7:09:26 PM UTC-4, William Crowell wrote:
> On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 3:37:45 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 5:43:56 PM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
> > > Peut-être ne le critiquez pas si vous ne l’avez pas essayé.
> > I don't have to try it. I spent a lot of time around people that believed that it was perfectly harmless as it ended up hooking them on heavier stuff.
> Correlation is not causation. By that same "logic", aspirin causes all drug addiction because virtually every addict took aspirin before graduating to the hard stuff.

marijuana is not a gateway drug. Alcohol and nicotine are both much more addictive, sanctioned by the government*, and in the case of tobacco subsidized (as late as 2004). Those gateways have been laid open by the government for a couple of centuries now.

* yes, sanctioned. Case in point: the only authorized sellers of hard liquor in New Hampshire are the state-run liquor stores. They advertise on radio and TV and hold tasting events. You'd be hard pressed to define that as anything else but being sanctioned and promoted by the government.

On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 05:46:34 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 3:37:14 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 14:29:35 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> >On 9/28/2022 1:31 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 13:12:13 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 9/28/2022 12:50 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >>>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 10:44:41 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
>> >>>> <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 9:41:02 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>>>> I don't use the stuff, but I wonder if this is true. It sounds incredible.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> https://www.revyuh.com/top-news/usa/cannabis-use-linked-to-over-30-of-fatal-bicycle-accidents-in-the-us/
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I'm always skeptical of weasel words such as "is linked to." That's much
>> >>>>>> different than "is directly caused by."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Admittedly, I'm not curious enough to download the original paper.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>> >>>>> They were probably weekend tokers with no tolerance who inadvertently smoked some herb that was too strong for them and got a brain freeze or misfire while riding.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I see no reason why DUI laws shouldn't apply to bicyclists using
>> >>>> public roads, trails, etc.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Because there's no definitive metabolite test for THC. The
>> >>> 'impaired' law does apply but enforcement is sketchy when
>> >>> contested in court.
>> >>
>> >> I'm thinking the "walk a straight line" or the "follow with eyes"
>> >> tests might work, but yes, I do understand your "metabolite test"
>> >> issue. A blood draw might solve it, but that introduces a whole other
>> >> set of privacy issues.
>> >>
>> >
>> >In most States that bridge has been crossed. For alcohol,
>> >the officer's opinion is enough 'probable cause' to request
>> >a breath test. Refusal of that test can lead to a hospital
>> >blood test but more importantly refusal itself can be taken
>> >as evidence of impairment by the court.
>> >
>> >The wrinkle with THC is that there's no definitive test.
>> Is the issue that they can't establish the amount of THC in the blood,
>> or the ambiguity of the strength of the THC and it's effect?
>
>No, the issue is that THC is present in the bloodstream long after the effects have worn off, and the amount of THC present in the system isn't a reliable indicator of impairment (as blood alcohol level is...sort of)
>
>https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/field-sobriety-tests-and-thc-levels-unreliable-indicators-marijuana-intoxication
>
>"Many of their study participants had significantly decreased cognitive and psychomotor functioning even when their blood, urine, and oral fluid contained low levels of THC. The researchers also observed that standardized field sobriety tests commonly used to detect driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol were not effective in detecting marijuana intoxication."

With alcohol, they simply measure the amount of alcohol and the
results of the field test. I don't see why they couldn't do that with
THC. OTOH, they could make it a crime to have THC products available
to the driver, ie, outside of a locked container, like they do with
firearms, or alcohol in an opened container. Some states where it's
illegal rely on the cop's sense of smell to justify a further search
of the vehicle.