On 9/19/2022 1:50 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tgae3r$17f2j$1@dont-email.me...
>
> When cutting tube I always use the bigger horizontal, and set the
> hydraulic down feed so it doesn't fall to fast.  It works great.  If I
> hadn't stripped the worm gear (replaced now) on the smaller horizontal I
> might have never found out how great the 7x12s are with the hydraulic
> down feed control.  I do have an abrasive chop saw, but it rarely gets
> used anymore.
>
> -------------------
>
> I learned on DoALL horizontal and vertical bandsaws, so I knew how a
> bandsaw was supposed to work and could tinker with a 4x6 until it did
> so, close enough for hobby use. I don't think it or the 30" 3-in-1 sheet
> metal machine belong in a business, they need too much attention to get
> and keep them right. Mine came second-hand from shops that had given up
> on them.
>

There are probably a lot more of those 4x6 saws in businesses than you
might think. I used mine everyday for five years, and that was after I
owned it for a few years just tinkering before that. I was a kid the
first time I saw one in a business. Probably more than 40 years ago.
My Harbor Freight 4x6 cuts a lot straighter than that old machine did.
LOL. The big key is an undamaged blade. I've noticed new blades almost
always cut straight. Even worn blades cut straight if the pressure
isn't to high, and the tooth set has not been messed up.

I probably wouldn't have bought the 7x12 except I could get it the same
day, and it would take an unknown time to get the gear for the 4x6.
Took a week. The one from the Grizzly 4x6 was a drop in replacement for
the one on my Harbor Freight 4x6 bandsaw.

I'd like to find an affordable vertical band saw for use in my shop.
The one I have is a 3 phase with a built in VFD, but it has almost no
power at low surface speed. I might try swapping the pullies to get
more torque, but then the built in surface speed display (just reads off
the VFD) would be wrong. As it is I almost never use it. I often choose
to use the 7x12 for vertical work in the upright position instead.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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On 19/09/2022 23:07, Bob La Londe wrote:
> On 9/19/2022 1:50 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tgae3r$17f2j$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>> When cutting tube I always use the bigger horizontal, and set the
>> hydraulic down feed so it doesn't fall to fast.  It works great.  If I
>> hadn't stripped the worm gear (replaced now) on the smaller horizontal I
>> might have never found out how great the 7x12s are with the hydraulic
>> down feed control.  I do have an abrasive chop saw, but it rarely gets
>> used anymore.
>>
>> -------------------
>>
>> I learned on DoALL horizontal and vertical bandsaws, so I knew how a
>> bandsaw was supposed to work and could tinker with a 4x6 until it did
>> so, close enough for hobby use. I don't think it or the 30" 3-in-1
>> sheet metal machine belong in a business, they need too much
>> attention to get and keep them right. Mine came second-hand from
>> shops that had given up on them.
>>
>
> There are probably a lot more of those 4x6 saws in businesses than you
> might think.  I used mine everyday for five years, and that was after
> I owned it for a few years just tinkering before that. I was a kid the
> first time I saw one in a business.  Probably more than 40 years ago.
> My Harbor Freight 4x6 cuts a lot straighter than that old machine did.
> LOL.  The big key is an undamaged blade. I've noticed new blades
> almost always cut straight.  Even worn blades cut straight if the
> pressure isn't to high, and the tooth set has not been messed up.
>
> I probably wouldn't have bought the 7x12 except I could get it the
> same day, and it would take an unknown time to get the gear for the
> 4x6. Took a week.  The one from the Grizzly 4x6 was a drop in
> replacement for the one on my Harbor Freight 4x6 bandsaw.
>
> I'd like to find an affordable vertical band saw for use in my shop.
> The one I have is a 3 phase with a built in VFD, but it has almost no
> power at low surface speed.  I might try swapping the pullies to get
> more torque, but then the built in surface speed display (just reads
> off the VFD) would be wrong. As it is I almost never use it.  I often
> choose to use the 7x12 for vertical work in the upright position instead.
>
Depending on your VFD you may be able to scale the display value to suit
your pulley change. I've done it on a flat lap for glass where I
displayed the platter RPM rather than the motor RPM.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:tgap7e$18e93$1@dont-email.me...

I'd like to find an affordable vertical band saw for use in my shop.
The one I have is a 3 phase with a built in VFD, but it has almost no
power at low surface speed. I might try swapping the pullies to get
more torque, but then the built in surface speed display (just reads off
the VFD) would be wrong. As it is I almost never use it. I often choose
to use the 7x12 for vertical work in the upright position instead.

----------------------

Perhaps you could rig a magnet-sensor bicycle speedometer to a wheel and
calibrate it to give you a useful indication of blade speed. On my
motorcycle-wheel sawmill the speedometer reading is close enough to 1/100th
of the feet per minute, 60 MPH = 5280 FPM, or 88 FPS. The 55 MPH tick mark
is approximately the blade maker's suggested 5000 FPM.

On 9/19/2022 3:48 PM, David Billington wrote:
> On 19/09/2022 23:07, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> On 9/19/2022 1:50 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tgae3r$17f2j$1@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> When cutting tube I always use the bigger horizontal, and set the
>>> hydraulic down feed so it doesn't fall to fast.  It works great.  If I
>>> hadn't stripped the worm gear (replaced now) on the smaller horizontal I
>>> might have never found out how great the 7x12s are with the hydraulic
>>> down feed control.  I do have an abrasive chop saw, but it rarely gets
>>> used anymore.
>>>
>>> -------------------
>>>
>>> I learned on DoALL horizontal and vertical bandsaws, so I knew how a
>>> bandsaw was supposed to work and could tinker with a 4x6 until it did
>>> so, close enough for hobby use. I don't think it or the 30" 3-in-1
>>> sheet metal machine belong in a business, they need too much
>>> attention to get and keep them right. Mine came second-hand from
>>> shops that had given up on them.
>>>
>>
>> There are probably a lot more of those 4x6 saws in businesses than you
>> might think.  I used mine everyday for five years, and that was after
>> I owned it for a few years just tinkering before that. I was a kid the
>> first time I saw one in a business.  Probably more than 40 years ago.
>> My Harbor Freight 4x6 cuts a lot straighter than that old machine did.
>> LOL.  The big key is an undamaged blade. I've noticed new blades
>> almost always cut straight.  Even worn blades cut straight if the
>> pressure isn't to high, and the tooth set has not been messed up.
>>
>> I probably wouldn't have bought the 7x12 except I could get it the
>> same day, and it would take an unknown time to get the gear for the
>> 4x6. Took a week.  The one from the Grizzly 4x6 was a drop in
>> replacement for the one on my Harbor Freight 4x6 bandsaw.
>>
>> I'd like to find an affordable vertical band saw for use in my shop.
>> The one I have is a 3 phase with a built in VFD, but it has almost no
>> power at low surface speed.  I might try swapping the pullies to get
>> more torque, but then the built in surface speed display (just reads
>> off the VFD) would be wrong. As it is I almost never use it.  I often
>> choose to use the 7x12 for vertical work in the upright position instead.
>>
> Depending on your VFD you may be able to scale the display value to suit
> your pulley change. I've done it on a flat lap for glass where I
> displayed the platter RPM rather than the motor RPM.
>

Entirely possible. I haven't even looked to see if I can get a manual
for the VFD. I was thinking if I can cut the speed by 2:1 I could also
just half whatever it says on the display. That basic math is within my
capability. Its a low priority on my list of projects.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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On 9/19/2022 5:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tgap7e$18e93$1@dont-email.me...
>
> I'd like to find an affordable vertical band saw for use in my shop.
> The one I have is a 3 phase with a built in VFD, but it has almost no
> power at low surface speed.  I might try swapping the pullies to get
> more torque, but then the built in surface speed display (just reads off
> the VFD) would be wrong. As it is I almost never use it.  I often choose
> to use the 7x12 for vertical work in the upright position instead.
>
> ----------------------
>
> Perhaps you could rig a magnet-sensor bicycle speedometer to a wheel and
> calibrate it to give you a useful indication of blade speed. On my
> motorcycle-wheel sawmill the speedometer reading is close enough to
> 1/100th of the feet per minute, 60 MPH = 5280 FPM, or 88 FPS. The 55 MPH
> tick mark is approximately the blade maker's suggested 5000 FPM.
>

I'm sure I could figure out something.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 10:01:41 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:

>Ok, who can tell me which coating works better for you (in steels of
>various hardness) and your application and setup. (carbide tools)
>
>
>--
>Bob La Londe
>Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
>real machinis

I buy what's avaible and reasonably priced. I do all short run stuff
and don't have any long runs where I could accually compare tools or
coatings.

I prefer TiN it's generally cheaper and works on both steel and
aluminum. Getting harder to find everyone likes to sell the exotic
coatings. Most likely a higher markup on those.

On 9/21/2022 7:54 AM, randy333@aol.com wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 10:01:41 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
> wrote:
>
>> Ok, who can tell me which coating works better for you (in steels of
>> various hardness) and your application and setup. (carbide tools)
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bob La Londe
>> Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
>> real machinis
>
> I buy what's avaible and reasonably priced. I do all short run stuff
> and don't have any long runs where I could accually compare tools or
> coatings.
>
> I prefer TiN it's generally cheaper and works on both steel and
> aluminum. Getting harder to find everyone likes to sell the exotic
> coatings. Most likely a higher markup on those.
>

I do a lot of high speed milling of aluminum. 5,100RPM to 24,000 RPM.
Mostly above 19,000. Aluminum chip welds to TiN. (and all of the
aluminum/alumina nitride/oxide coatings too) Diamond and ZrN are the
only coatings that don't seem to stick to hot aluminum chips, and they
can still stick. I found flood coolant and sharp bright carbide
uncoated with aluminum geometry (40-45 degree helix and very sharp edge)
gives me hours of cut time without chip welding. When I say hours I
mean that literally. Code files of a few hundred thousand lines are
common, and files with over a million lines of code are not all that
uncommon in my shop.

On the manual machines I do not always run coolant for short tasks like
squaring up blanks to go on the high speed machines, but even there if I
am doing a lot of work and heats starts to build up I have seen signs of
chip welding. TiN is far worse than bright carbide. Even when I run
specialty HSS cutters that are hard to find in carbide I run bright
uncoated for aluminum.

I'm not saying you are wrong or that your experience isn't what it is.
I am just saying that based on my experience with the types of machining
I due TiN is terrible in aluminum. I haven't been thrilled with it in
steel either, but I have no patience for doing a job slower than I am
able to do it and still meet spec. Currently I run Carbide AlTiN for
most of my steel work, but I've read a few articles claiming TiAlN might
be better for some types of steel work. It has not been my experience.
That is why I asked for other people's experiences. To know when it
might be.

I want to finish off by saying thank you. I appreciate your feedback.
Knowing that its possible to get okay work with a TiN coated tool in
aluminum is not something I would have otherwise believed. Thank you.

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