https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/557743-deutsche-bank-issues-dire-economic-warning-for-america

If people keep splattering trillions of dollars around, things will
happen.

Have I mentioned lately that most politicians and most economists are
dangerous idiots? Worth repeating.

On 2021/06/10 11:11 a.m., John Larkin wrote:
>
> https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/557743-deutsche-bank-issues-dire-economic-warning-for-america
>
> If people keep splattering trillions of dollars around, things will
> happen.
>
> Have I mentioned lately that most politicians and most economists are
> dangerous idiots? Worth repeating.
>
>

Isn't this the bank that backed Trump? I suspect he is quite the credit
risk right now...

John :-#)#

On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 2:12:00 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/557743-deutsche-bank-issues-dire-economic-warning-for-america
>
> If people keep splattering trillions of dollars around, things will
> happen.
>
> Have I mentioned lately that most politicians and most economists are
> dangerous idiots? Worth repeating.

Post WW1 Germany embraced insane political ideologies because of mass brain damage caused by hyper-excessive coal burning and heavy metal toxicity. The whole place was in a perpetual haze. Only a fool would think the politics was an accident.
We're experiencing a similar effect now, except it's making people stupid versus violently insane.

On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:27:24 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:

>
>On 2021/06/10 11:11 a.m., John Larkin wrote:
>>
>> https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/557743-deutsche-bank-issues-dire-economic-warning-for-america
>>
>> If people keep splattering trillions of dollars around, things will
>> happen.
>>
>> Have I mentioned lately that most politicians and most economists are
>> dangerous idiots? Worth repeating.
>>
>>
>
>Isn't this the bank that backed Trump? I suspect he is quite the credit
>risk right now...
>
>John :-#)#

We are all credit risks now. Trump at least has some real assets, land
and buildings.

Cryptocoins are the ultimate absurdity. They are expensive to make and
essentially worthless. Like printing paper money on insanely expensive
printing presses.

A severe case of Trump Derangement Syndrome...

--
John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> wrote:

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> From: John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
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>
> On 2021/06/10 11:11 a.m., John Larkin wrote:
>>
>> https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/557743-deutsche-bank-issues-dire-economic-warning-for-america
>>
>> If people keep splattering trillions of dollars around, things will
>> happen.
>>
>> Have I mentioned lately that most politicians and most economists are
>> dangerous idiots? Worth repeating.
>>
>>
>
> Isn't this the bank that backed Trump? I suspect he is quite the credit
> risk right now...
>
> John :-#)#
>
>

John Larkin wrote:

> https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/557743-deutsche-bank-issues-dire-economic-warning-for-america
>
> If people keep splattering trillions of dollars around, things will
> happen.

That might be true, but relying on INSANE Germans for advice is foolhardy.
You know, the same INSANE Germans who are destroying their own energy
grid...

Even though nuclear energy is obviously the way to go, I've always thought
China depending on so many nuclear reactors makes itself vulnerable to
attack. Now we have Germany, known for going INSANE from time to time,
destroying its own nuclear power plants...

John Larkin wrote:

> https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/557743-deutsche-bank-issues-dire-economic-warning-for-america

Hear, hear, Deutsche Bank issues a warning? }:->

The next financial crisis in the EU is likely to start at that
institution, so letting them issue a warning is on the verge of insult.

The current rate of production of the Federal Reserve Notes is well past
the point of no return. Unfortunately, Weimarica is bound to fail. Get
used to this vision:

https://www.amazon.com/Zimbabwe-100-Trillion-Dollar-Note/dp/B00U1ZMYGC

Best regards, Piotr

John Larkin wrote:

> Cryptocoins are the ultimate absurdity. They are expensive to make and
> essentially worthless.

So are fiat currencies, with no exception. They are only as strong as
the economies behind them. The north American FRNs are backed by the US
army, particularly by its quickly deliverable heavy metal branch, so
they are going to stay with us for a while. These of the lesser sort
will fall first and violently, no worries. Cryptos at least can't be
forged as easily as buying a faster printer. I'm wondering if the recent
spike in the lumber price is caused by the FED wholesale purchases.
Printing 40% of all the FRNs in existence in just a single year is
admittedly an achievement and needs plenty of raw material.

> Like printing paper money on insanely expensive printing presses.

Bullion dealers are even more insane. You send them paper and they send
you sound money in return.

Best regards, Piotr

On 10/06/21 20:33, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:27:24 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 2021/06/10 11:11 a.m., John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>> https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/557743-deutsche-bank-issues-dire-economic-warning-for-america
>>>
>>> If people keep splattering trillions of dollars around, things will
>>> happen.
>>>
>>> Have I mentioned lately that most politicians and most economists are
>>> dangerous idiots? Worth repeating.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Isn't this the bank that backed Trump? I suspect he is quite the credit
>> risk right now...
>>
>> John :-#)#
>
> We are all credit risks now. Trump at least has some real assets, land
> and buildings.

I suspect he is fairly highly leveraged.

> Cryptocoins are the ultimate absurdity. They are expensive to make and
> essentially worthless. Like printing paper money on insanely expensive
> printing presses.

What /is/ the key characteristic of money? Simple:
it is a /promise/ that you can exchange it at some
time in the future for something that isn't money.

If you believe the promise, then the money has value.
If you don't believe the promise, then the money
is valueless.

That's true for gold, paper, buildings, long numbers,
and deciduous forests.

On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 23:58:44 +0200, Piotr Wyderski
<bombald@protonmail.com> wrote:

>John Larkin wrote:
>
>> Cryptocoins are the ultimate absurdity. They are expensive to make and
>> essentially worthless.
>
>So are fiat currencies, with no exception. They are only as strong as
>the economies behind them. The north American FRNs are backed by the US
>army, particularly by its quickly deliverable heavy metal branch, so
>they are going to stay with us for a while. These of the lesser sort
>will fall first and violently, no worries. Cryptos at least can't be
>forged as easily as buying a faster printer. I'm wondering if the recent
>spike in the lumber price is caused by the FED wholesale purchases.
>Printing 40% of all the FRNs in existence in just a single year is
>admittedly an achievement and needs plenty of raw material.

The price of lumber is a direct consequence of the demand for wood
pulp to print trillions of dollars.

John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 23:58:44 +0200, Piotr Wyderski
> <bombald@protonmail.com> wrote:
>
>> John Larkin wrote:
>>
>>> Cryptocoins are the ultimate absurdity. They are expensive to make and
>>> essentially worthless.
>>
>> So are fiat currencies, with no exception. They are only as strong as
>> the economies behind them. The north American FRNs are backed by the US
>> army, particularly by its quickly deliverable heavy metal branch, so
>> they are going to stay with us for a while. These of the lesser sort
>> will fall first and violently, no worries. Cryptos at least can't be
>> forged as easily as buying a faster printer. I'm wondering if the recent
>> spike in the lumber price is caused by the FED wholesale purchases.
>> Printing 40% of all the FRNs in existence in just a single year is
>> admittedly an achievement and needs plenty of raw material.
>
> The price of lumber is a direct consequence of the demand for wood
> pulp to print trillions of dollars.
>

The dollar is backed by "the full faith and credit of the United
States". While that's certainly selling at a discount at the moment,
cryptocoins are backed by nothing whatsoever except for the desire to
escape government scrutiny and control. (There's considerable excuse
for that, of course.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 23:36:45 +0200, Piotr Wyderski
<bombald@protonmail.com> wrote:

>John Larkin wrote:
>
>> https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/557743-deutsche-bank-issues-dire-economic-warning-for-america
>
>Hear, hear, Deutsche Bank issues a warning? }:->
>
>The next financial crisis in the EU is likely to start at that
>institution, so letting them issue a warning is on the verge of insult.
>
>The current rate of production of the Federal Reserve Notes is well past
>the point of no return. Unfortunately, Weimarica is bound to fail. Get
>used to this vision:
>
>https://www.amazon.com/Zimbabwe-100-Trillion-Dollar-Note/dp/B00U1ZMYGC
>
> Best regards, Piotr

The US doesn't need that much inflation to solve its debt problems.
Just 3:1 or some such would do.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 4:12:00 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/557743-deutsche-bank-issues-dire-economic-warning-for-america
>
> If people keep splattering trillions of dollars around, things will
> happen.
>
> Have I mentioned lately that most politicians and most economists are
> dangerous idiots? Worth repeating.

Since John Larkin is an ill-informed idiot when he posts about politic and economics his comments really aren't worth repeating. He's silly enough to want to reminds how frequently he gets this kind of stuff grossly wrong. He even approved of Donald Trump - bribed by the ill-advised tax cut that put money in his pocket..

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 5:33:20 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:27:24 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >On 2021/06/10 11:11 a.m., John Larkin wrote:
> >>
> >> https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/557743-deutsche-bank-issues-dire-economic-warning-for-america
> >>
> >> If people keep splattering trillions of dollars around, things will
> >> happen.
> >>
> >> Have I mentioned lately that most politicians and most economists are
> >> dangerous idiots? Worth repeating.
> >
> >Isn't this the bank that backed Trump? I suspect he is quite the credit risk right now...
> >
> We are all credit risks now. Trump at least has some real assets, land and buildings.

There's some debate about whether the real assets he claims to own are worth more than he owes. Traditionally, crooks like him used the same assets to secure multiple loans for a total of lot more money than the asset was worth, often when the asset wasn't actually worth buying.
> Cryptocoins are the ultimate absurdity. They are expensive to make and essentially worthless. Like printing paper money on insanely expensive printing presses.

Paper money is even more worthless. Gold does have practical uses, but you can't eat it. From that point of view, currency of any sort is worthless, even though having some medium of exchange or other is pretty much essential to any extensive and complicated society.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 5:45:17 AM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
> John Larkin wrote:
>
> > https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/557743-deutsche-bank-issues-dire-economic-warning-for-america
> >
> > If people keep splattering trillions of dollars around, things will
> > happen.
>
> That might be true, but relying on INSANE Germans for advice is foolhardy..
> You know, the same INSANE Germans who are destroying their own energy
> grid...

In fact they've just shut down their nuclear reactors. The energy grid distributes the power that has been generated, and there's no evidence that they are puling down poles and wires.
> Even though nuclear energy is obviously the way to go, I've always thought
> China depending on so many nuclear reactors makes itself vulnerable to
> attack. Now we have Germany, known for going INSANE from time to time,
> destroying its own nuclear power plants...

The proposition that " nuclear energy is obviously the way to go" is one that John Doe embraces, largely because he is a gullible idiot.

Solar power captures the nuclear energy generated by our sun, which doesn't generate dangerously radioactive waste products. So does hydroelectric power. Even the fossil carbon that we dig up and burn was originally generated by same nuclear fusion going on in the sun.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On 6/10/2021 4:01 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:

>> Cryptocoins are the ultimate absurdity. They are expensive to make and
>> essentially worthless. Like printing paper money on insanely expensive
>> printing presses.

And REprinting those same bank notes as they age?

> What /is/ the key characteristic of money? Simple:
> it is a /promise/ that you can exchange it at some
> time in the future for something that isn't money.

Exactly. There was a scifi story where "obligations"
(obs) were the currency of the planet. People gave
(sold) you things, services, etc. based on the obligation
it imposed on you. Failing to honor your obligations
ended up leaving you ostracized -- once your promise
is proven worthless, how do you get folks to "give"
(sell) you anything thereafter?

> If you believe the promise, then the money has value.
> If you don't believe the promise, then the money
> is valueless.
>
> That's true for gold, paper, buildings, long numbers,
> and deciduous forests.

<http://chromatism.net/current/images/freewheelinfranklin.jpg>

Now that's something with intrinsic value!

Tom Gardner wrote:

> What /is/ the key characteristic of money? Simple:
> it is a /promise/ that you can exchange it at some
> time in the future for something that isn't money.

The key characteristic of *money* is its being store of value.
FRNs have lost that property. It is just a *currency*, like many other
on the planet. And the average lifespan of a fiat currency is about 27
years.

> That's true for gold, paper, buildings, long numbers,
> and deciduous forests.

Even the pharaohs understood the vale of gold and silver. I guess they
wouldn't accept paper FRNs.

Best regards, Piotr

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 3:40:36 PM UTC+10, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
> Tom Gardner wrote:
>
> > What /is/ the key characteristic of money? Simple: it is a /promise/ that you can exchange it at some time in the future for something that isn't money.
>
> The key characteristic of *money* is its being store of value.

It's more that it is medium of exchange - the "store of value" feature is an incidental consequence of that.

> FRNs have lost that property. It is just a *currency*, like many other on the planet. And the average lifespan of a fiat currency is about 27 years.

Which is plenty for a medium of exchange. Greshams Law - bad money drives out good - is an obvious consequences of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law

> > That's true for gold, paper, buildings, long numbers, and deciduous forests.
>
> Even the pharaohs understood the value of gold and silver. I guess they wouldn't accept paper FRNs.

The pharaohs understood that everybody fancies jewelery, and gold and silver make easier-to-care-for jewelery than less noble metals.

They probably understood that you can't eat jewelery, even if you mostly can swap it for food for people who have more food than they need right now.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Bill Sloman wrote:

>> The key characteristic of *money* is its being store of value.
>
> It's more that it is medium of exchange - the "store of value" feature is an incidental consequence of that.

Being a medium of exchange is another property, but the store of value
feature is sort of in conflict with the former. It becomes important
when you explicitly refuse to exchange the tender and start accumulating
it.

> Which is plenty for a medium of exchange. Greshams Law - bad money drives out good - is an obvious consequences of this.

So the Zimbabwe folks must have been the wealthiest on the planet and
openly threaten the position of the US dollar. I have all the trillions
except for the 20 trillion note, which is a bit rare in the UNC state.
The Weimar republic "One hundred billion marks" notes are
printed only on one side to save the paint. Another good example of
wealth from the printer.

> The pharaohs understood that everybody fancies jewelery, and gold and
silver make easier-to-care-for jewelery than less noble metals.

So are the modern Central Banks driven by jewelry fetishists? They are
buying gold like crazy now and Basel 3 is only one part of an answer.

> They probably understood that you can't eat jewelery, even if you mostly can swap it for food for people who have more food than they need right now.

Are FRNs edible?

Best regards, Piotr

Phil Hobbs wrote:

> The dollar is backed by "the full faith and credit of the United
> States".

Hence that brilliant "in rod we trust". At least you cannot print ferrite.

> While that's certainly selling at a discount at the moment,
> cryptocoins are backed by nothing whatsoever

That's much more complex. The US and EU financial markets have been
flooded with liquidity and the financial institutions don't know what to
do with that deck of speed. So you have the blossoming stock exchange
and real estate market in the very center of a collapsing economy. For
the same reason cryptos were bound to happen. The downfall will be epic.

Another aspect is that there different types of cryptocoins. The Central
Banks are hectically working on their own (Central Bank Digital
Currency), so the principle is here to stay. Just the private
competition will be eradicated one day. CBDCs can have many interesting
features, for instance rumor has it that the Chinese one will have
built-in expiry date. The capability of disconnecting you from the
system if you don't scream loud enough during your daily "Two Minutes of
Hate" is not even worth mentioning.

> except for the desire to escape government scrutiny and control.

Only certain coins have been designed to be anonymous, e.g. Monero. All
the rest is not so much. The entire registry of bitcoin transactions is
open and available to everyone -- that's the idea behind blockchain,
after all.

Best regards, Piotr

Bill Sloman wrote:

> Since John Larkin is an ill-informed idiot when he posts about politic and economics his comments really aren't worth repeating. He's silly enough to want to reminds how frequently he gets this kind of stuff grossly wrong. He even approved of Donald Trump - bribed by the ill-advised tax cut that put money in his pocket..

The key difference is that it no longer is a tinfoil hat conspiracy
theory. Deutsche Bank, among others, has brought it to the mainstream.

While that particular bank would better shut up, the message is legitimate.

Best regards, Piotr

"the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions" (Bill Sloman)

Bozo the Clown...

--
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

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>
> On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 4:12:00 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
>> https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/557743-deutsche-bank-issues-dire-econ
> omic-warning-for-america
>>
>> If people keep splattering trillions of dollars around, things will
>> happen.
>>
>> Have I mentioned lately that most politicians and most economists are
>> dangerous idiots? Worth repeating.
>
> Since John Larkin is an ill-informed idiot when he posts about politic and economics his comments really aren't worth repeating. He's silly enough to want to reminds how frequently he gets this kind of stuff grossly wrong. He even approved of Donald Trump - bribed by the ill-advised tax cut that put money in his pocket..
>
> --
> Bill Sloman, Sydney
>
>

On 11/06/21 00:16, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> John Larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 23:58:44 +0200, Piotr Wyderski <bombald@protonmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cryptocoins are the ultimate absurdity. They are expensive to make and
>>>> essentially worthless.
>>>
>>> So are fiat currencies, with no exception. They are only as strong as the
>>> economies behind them. The north American FRNs are backed by the US army,
>>> particularly by its quickly deliverable heavy metal branch, so they are
>>> going to stay with us for a while. These of the lesser sort will fall
>>> first and violently, no worries. Cryptos at least can't be forged as
>>> easily as buying a faster printer. I'm wondering if the recent spike in
>>> the lumber price is caused by the FED wholesale purchases. Printing 40%
>>> of all the FRNs in existence in just a single year is admittedly an
>>> achievement and needs plenty of raw material.
>>
>> The price of lumber is a direct consequence of the demand for wood pulp to
>> print trillions of dollars.
>>
>
> The dollar is backed by "the full faith and credit of the United States".

Zimbabwe and the Weimar Republic indicate what happens when
people don't believe in such "full faith".

> While that's certainly selling at a discount at the moment, cryptocoins are
> backed by nothing whatsoever except for the desire to escape government
> scrutiny and control.

The /reasons/ people believe in any forms of money
are less important than the belief itself. Not many
people claim that belief has to be rational :(

> (There's considerable excuse for that, of course.)

Yup :(

On 11/06/21 06:40, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
> Tom Gardner wrote:
>
>> What /is/ the key characteristic of money? Simple:
>> it is a /promise/ that you can exchange it at some
>> time in the future for something that isn't money.
>
> The key characteristic of *money* is its being store of value.
> FRNs have lost that property. It is just a *currency*, like many other on the
> planet. And the average lifespan of a fiat currency is about 27 years.
>
>> That's true for gold, paper, buildings, long numbers,
>> and deciduous forests.
>
> Even the pharaohs understood the vale of gold and silver.

It was /prized/ because it was rare and did not change
over time. Everything else decayed in one way or another.
That's back to the promise that it would be useful in
the future

The /value/ varied. In times of famine food became more
valuable than prettiness.

On 6/11/2021 1:12 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:

> It was /prized/ because it was rare and did not change
> over time. Everything else decayed in one way or another.
> That's back to the promise that it would be useful in
> the future
>
> The /value/ varied. In times of famine food became more
> valuable than prettiness.

That's true of all notions of "value".

Why is a Rembrandt worth what it is? What's the *intrinsic*
value of the canvas and oil pigments attached to it? It
wouldn't even make a decent covering if you were cold or
it was raining outside.

Aside from its value as a soft hammer, what's the value
of a bar of gold? Perhaps to cast into "sinkers" to
assist with weighting down a fishing line?

Even "food during famine" has a dubious value -- when you
eat the last bite (and there's no more) it's priceless
and without price (cuz you can't get any for ANY amount
of "money")

The fact that cryptocurrencies have *no* value is hardly
much worse than a piece of canvas "stained" with some
oil pigments! Or a shiny yellow metal with a weight
roughly comparable to that of lead!

The amusing aspect of cryptocurrencies is they are a
perfect manifestation of the *market* setting an items
value; having ANY value (without intrinsic value) is
a pure reflection of the arbitrariness of assessments
of value by those willing to "spend money".