I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or more
millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.

All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their incomes
to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare insurance.

The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires responding
with glee that the ACA is still with us.

My response,

"Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.

And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."

I was given an infraction worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted
access until it expires.

      :-)

Rant over.

               Mikek

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 6/17/2021 5:54 PM, amdx wrote:
> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or more
> millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>
> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their incomes
> to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare insurance.
>
> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires responding
> with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>
> My response,
>
> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
>
> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
>
> I was given an infraction worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted
> access until it expires.
>
>       :-)
>
> Rant over.
>
>                Mikek
>
>
>

The trouble with forums designed primarily for men to brag about how
much money they have or how many women they fuck or other topics of
"mens interest" is that unless there's a million-dollar entry fee or a
requirement to upload a video of the date with Sarah Michelle Geller
where you "totally banged her" you'll rarely find an honest man in one
of those places.

On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or more
> millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>
> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their incomes
> to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare insurance.
>
> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires responding
> with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>
> My response,
>
> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
>
> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."

The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving, that's why they can't afford the deductible.
Sounds like you've bought into the everyone-is-a-victim fiction.

>
> I was given an infraction worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted
> access until it expires.
>
> :-)
>
> Rant over.
>
> Mikek
>
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 6/18/2021 10:16 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or more
>> millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>>
>> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their incomes
>> to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare insurance.
>>
>> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires responding
>> with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>>
>> My response,
>>
>> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
>> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
>>
>> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
> The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving
> that's why they can't afford the deductible.
>
> I agree with that, depending on what poor means.
>
> Savings is a concept that many middle income and high income
> individuals have a problem with.
>
Some poor, just plain don't have any money left after  housing and food.
> Sounds like you've bought into the everyone-is-a-victim fiction.

Ah, not really. My main point was that people with a net worth in the
top 10% are structuring

their income to take advantage of subsidies on their healthcare
insurance. Paid for by people that

have much less and earn a middle class income.

  I'll freely admit, I'm probably the dumb one, I have probably paid
over $70k in extra insurance premiums,

since 2012, because I avoided the ACA and kept a private plan the whole
time. I could have got a large subsidy.

                                                      Mikek

>
>> I was given an infraction worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted
>> access until it expires.
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Rant over.
>>
>> Mikek
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 6/17/2021 8:33 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 6/17/2021 5:54 PM, amdx wrote:
>> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or
>> more millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>>
>> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their
>> incomes to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare
>> insurance.
>>
>> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires
>> responding with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>>
>> My response,
>>
>> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
>> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
>>
>> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
>>
>> I was given an infraction worth 1 point(s) and may result in
>> restricted access until it expires.
>>
>>        :-)
>>
>> Rant over.
>>
>>                 Mikek
>>
>>
>>
>
> The trouble with forums designed primarily for men to brag about how
> much money they have or how many women they fuck or other topics of
> "mens interest" is that unless there's a million-dollar entry fee or a
> requirement to upload a video of the date with Sarah Michelle Geller
> where you "totally banged her" you'll rarely find an honest man in one
> of those places.

There are plenty of women on the forums I read. Being anonymous lying
does you no good. But, sure some could inflate, but why? Having a
million or two is far from being rich, or even being a chick magnet. $1M
will safely generate $40k a year, $2M is $80k a year, hardly making you
rich.

Call me rare then, my wife and I have 2.5 times more than we earned over
37 years of working using our SS record numbers. But you don't believe it?

That's the magic of compound interest.  You probably don't believe a
family can live on 50% or 60% of their income either.

We earned a middle class income started below $20k and had about 10
years at $70k. First year married we earned $18k and saved $6k.

Quote "If you have a million dollars and live like a millionaire, you
won't have a million dollars for long."

Probably to late for your retirement, but check out Early-Retirment.org

As I like to tell people getting a late start, just because you can't
reach $1M, wouldn't it still be nice to have $500,000 saved?

                                                        Mikek

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 11:37:26 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> On 6/18/2021 10:16 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> >> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or more
> >> millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
> >>
> >> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their incomes
> >> to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare insurance..
> >>
> >> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires responding
> >> with glee that the ACA is still with us.
> >>
> >> My response,
> >>
> >> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
> >> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
> >>
> >> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
> > The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving
> > that's why they can't afford the deductible.
> >
> > I agree with that, depending on what poor means.
> >
> > Savings is a concept that many middle income and high income
> > individuals have a problem with.
> >
> Some poor, just plain don't have any money left after housing and food.

Are those the poor where both parents can't care for themselves, and then between the two of them have six similarly inferior children that the taxpayer is supposed to subsidize? Subsidizing this atrocious situation with very generous tax credits explains why budget deficits are now measured in trillions and not just billions.

> > Sounds like you've bought into the everyone-is-a-victim fiction.
> Ah, not really. My main point was that people with a net worth in the
> top 10% are structuring
>
> their income to take advantage of subsidies on their healthcare
> insurance. Paid for by people that
>
> have much less and earn a middle class income.
>
> I'll freely admit, I'm probably the dumb one, I have probably paid
> over $70k in extra insurance premiums,
>
> since 2012, because I avoided the ACA and kept a private plan the whole
> time. I could have got a large subsidy.

How come none of those crooks told you about subsidies all that time?

>
> Mikek
> >
> >> I was given an infraction worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted
> >> access until it expires.
> >>
> >> :-)
> >>
> >> Rant over.
> >>
> >> Mikek
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 11:16:17 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> > I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or more
> > millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
> >
> > All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their incomes
> > to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare insurance.
> >
> > The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires responding
> > with glee that the ACA is still with us.
> >
> > My response,
> >
> > "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
> > that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
> >
> > And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
> The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving, that's why they can't afford the deductible.
> Sounds like you've bought into the everyone-is-a-victim fiction.

Oh dear god!

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 11:37:26 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> On 6/18/2021 10:16 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> >> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or more
> >> millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
> >>
> >> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their incomes
> >> to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare insurance..
> >>
> >> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires responding
> >> with glee that the ACA is still with us.
> >>
> >> My response,
> >>
> >> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
> >> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
> >>
> >> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
> > The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving
> > that's why they can't afford the deductible.
> >
> > I agree with that, depending on what poor means.
> >
> > Savings is a concept that many middle income and high income
> > individuals have a problem with.
> >
> Some poor, just plain don't have any money left after housing and food.
> > Sounds like you've bought into the everyone-is-a-victim fiction.
> Ah, not really. My main point was that people with a net worth in the
> top 10% are structuring
>
> their income to take advantage of subsidies on their healthcare
> insurance. Paid for by people that
>
> have much less and earn a middle class income.
>
> I'll freely admit, I'm probably the dumb one, I have probably paid
> over $70k in extra insurance premiums,
>
> since 2012, because I avoided the ACA and kept a private plan the whole
> time. I could have got a large subsidy.

It's always easy peasy to point out problems. It's also easy peasy to come up with lame, knee jerk solutions like Larkin tends to do. But you don't even try.

My solution is universal health care like they have in most civilized countries. Then everyone gets all the treatment they need and it is back to paying according to your ability... well, as much as the tax system is structured for that.

It would not require much extra taxes, at least beyond what is paid out today. Those who are currently covered under employers' plans would essentially be covered by the employer paying into funding universal health care just as they today pay for insurance. Those who are covered by Medicare or Medicaid would not change. That covers the lion's share of medical costs. The remainder of uninsured would need to be covered by some extra taxes collected. Or, maybe the savings of eliminating the medical insurance industry would cover that.

There are many details to figure out for sure, but it's not an intractable problem. That would completely remove the minimum income goal for the retired, well, from the medical insurance aspect at least. They still want to minimize their taxes in general.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 12:44:32 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 11:37:26 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

> > Some poor, just plain don't have any money left after housing and food.

> Are those the poor where both parents can't care for themselves, and then between the two of them have six similarly inferior children that the taxpayer is supposed to subsidize?

Yes, of course; subsidizing (educating, mostly) our future taxpayers is an important investment.
They'll be paying it forward soon enough, just as we are doing now.

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 3:44:32 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 11:37:26 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> > On 6/18/2021 10:16 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> > >> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or more
> > >> millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
> > >>
> > >> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their incomes
> > >> to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare insurance.
> > >>
> > >> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires responding
> > >> with glee that the ACA is still with us.
> > >>
> > >> My response,
> > >>
> > >> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
> > >> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
> > >>
> > >> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
> > > The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving
> > > that's why they can't afford the deductible.
> > >
> > > I agree with that, depending on what poor means.
> > >
> > > Savings is a concept that many middle income and high income
> > > individuals have a problem with.
> > >
> > Some poor, just plain don't have any money left after housing and food.
> Are those the poor where both parents can't care for themselves, and then between the two of them have six similarly inferior children that the taxpayer is supposed to subsidize? Subsidizing this atrocious situation with very generous tax credits explains why budget deficits are now measured in trillions and not just billions.

Why do you wig out about stuff that is either made up or such non-problems that it has no impact on you? How much money goes into those sort of people? This is like a friend who years ago was enraged about people who drove welfare Cadillacs, both of them. I don't know how many people scammed the welfare system, but it's small or even tiny compared to those who depend on it for a barely adequate life.

This is such a tiny portion of the money the government gives out I don't care. It's probably at a level that would make it hard to police further without costing more than it saves. In any event, I'm not for denying anyone healthcare.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 6:16:56 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 3:44:32 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 11:37:26 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> > > On 6/18/2021 10:16 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> > > >> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or more
> > > >> millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
> > > >>
> > > >> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their incomes
> > > >> to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare insurance.
> > > >>
> > > >> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires responding
> > > >> with glee that the ACA is still with us.
> > > >>
> > > >> My response,
> > > >>
> > > >> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
> > > >> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
> > > >>
> > > >> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
> > > > The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving
> > > > that's why they can't afford the deductible.
> > > >
> > > > I agree with that, depending on what poor means.
> > > >
> > > > Savings is a concept that many middle income and high income
> > > > individuals have a problem with.
> > > >
> > > Some poor, just plain don't have any money left after housing and food.
> > Are those the poor where both parents can't care for themselves, and then between the two of them have six similarly inferior children that the taxpayer is supposed to subsidize? Subsidizing this atrocious situation with very generous tax credits explains why budget deficits are now measured in trillions and not just billions.
> Why do you wig out about stuff that is either made up or such non-problems that it has no impact on you? How much money goes into those sort of people? This is like a friend who years ago was enraged about people who drove welfare Cadillacs, both of them. I don't know how many people scammed the welfare system, but it's small or even tiny compared to those who depend on it for a barely adequate life.

LOL_ you obviously don't know the story about the original welfare queen:
https://newrepublic.com/article/154404/myth-welfare-queen

You call $1.8 Trillion a pittance?
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2021/05/27/the-american-families-plan-too-many-tax-credits-for-children/
That's money down the drain to the type of program that has a solid historical track record of being a total waste. About as hugely wasteful as all this exorbitant education spending on people who don't want it and are uneducable.

>
> This is such a tiny portion of the money the government gives out I don't care. It's probably at a level that would make it hard to police further without costing more than it saves. In any event, I'm not for denying anyone healthcare.

Who said anything about ACA? If properly implemented ACA will save money.

>
> --
>
> Rick C.
>
> -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 6/18/2021 2:44 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 11:37:26 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>> On 6/18/2021 10:16 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>>>> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or more
>>>> millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>>>>
>>>> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their incomes
>>>> to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare insurance.
>>>>
>>>> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires responding
>>>> with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>>>>
>>>> My response,
>>>>
>>>> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
>>>> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
>>>>
>>>> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
>>> The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving
>>> that's why they can't afford the deductible.
>>>
>>> I agree with that, depending on what poor means.
>>>
>>> Savings is a concept that many middle income and high income
>>> individuals have a problem with.
>>>
>> Some poor, just plain don't have any money left after housing and food.
> Are those the poor where both parents can't care for themselves, and then between the two of them have six similarly inferior children that the taxpayer is supposed to subsidize? Subsidizing this atrocious situation with very generous tax credits explains why budget deficits are now measured in trillions and not just billions.

  I'm on your side on this (although your demeanor has me wondering if
this is the real Fred Bloggs)

We have 43% of the workers that pay no Federal Income taxes and many of
those get money back they never paid in.

I think Financial education should start in Middle school.

>> I'll freely admit, I'm probably the dumb one, I have probably paid
>> over $70k in extra insurance premiums,
>>
>> since 2012, because I avoided the ACA and kept a private plan the whole
>> time. I could have got a large subsidy.
> How come none of those crooks told you about subsidies all that time?

 Oh I knew about it, I was against the ACA and hoped it would get
thrown out. I voted with my wallet.

                                       Mikek

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 6/18/2021 4:24 PM, Rick C wrote:
> On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 11:37:26 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>> On 6/18/2021 10:16 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>>>> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or more
>>>> millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>>>>
>>>> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their incomes
>>>> to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare insurance.
>>>>
>>>> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires responding
>>>> with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>>>>
>>>> My response,
>>>>
>>>> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
>>>> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
>>>>
>>>> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
>>> The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving
>>> that's why they can't afford the deductible.
>>>
>>> I agree with that, depending on what poor means.
>>>
>>> Savings is a concept that many middle income and high income
>>> individuals have a problem with.
>>>
>> Some poor, just plain don't have any money left after housing and food.
>>> Sounds like you've bought into the everyone-is-a-victim fiction.
>> Ah, not really. My main point was that people with a net worth in the
>> top 10% are structuring
>>
>> their income to take advantage of subsidies on their healthcare
>> insurance. Paid for by people that
>>
>> have much less and earn a middle class income.
>>
>> I'll freely admit, I'm probably the dumb one, I have probably paid
>> over $70k in extra insurance premiums,
>>
>> since 2012, because I avoided the ACA and kept a private plan the whole
>> time. I could have got a large subsidy.
> It's always easy peasy to point out problems. It's also easy peasy to come up with lame, knee jerk solutions like Larkin tends to do. But you don't even try.
>
> My solution is universal health care like they have in most civilized countries. Then everyone gets all the treatment they need and it is back to paying according to your ability... well, as much as the tax system is structured for that.
>
> It would not require much extra taxes, at least beyond what is paid out today. Those who are currently covered under employers' plans would essentially be covered by the employer paying into funding universal health care just as they today pay for insurance. Those who are covered by Medicare or Medicaid would not change. That covers the lion's share of medical costs. The remainder of uninsured would need to be covered by some extra taxes collected. Or, maybe the savings of eliminating the medical insurance industry would cover that.
>
> There are many details to figure out for sure, but it's not an intractable problem. That would completely remove the minimum income goal for the retired, well, from the medical insurance aspect at least. They still want to minimize their taxes in general.
>
 This is like college loans, the government gets involved and all the
easy money drives up costs.

Same with healthcare. Subsides are not the fix, lower costs and the rate
of increases is.

                                                Mikek

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 7:18:25 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 6:16:56 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 3:44:32 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 11:37:26 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> > > > On 6/18/2021 10:16 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> > > > >> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or more
> > > > >> millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their incomes
> > > > >> to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare insurance.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires responding
> > > > >> with glee that the ACA is still with us.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> My response,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
> > > > >> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
> > > > > The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving
> > > > > that's why they can't afford the deductible.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with that, depending on what poor means.
> > > > >
> > > > > Savings is a concept that many middle income and high income
> > > > > individuals have a problem with.
> > > > >
> > > > Some poor, just plain don't have any money left after housing and food.
> > > Are those the poor where both parents can't care for themselves, and then between the two of them have six similarly inferior children that the taxpayer is supposed to subsidize? Subsidizing this atrocious situation with very generous tax credits explains why budget deficits are now measured in trillions and not just billions.
> > Why do you wig out about stuff that is either made up or such non-problems that it has no impact on you? How much money goes into those sort of people? This is like a friend who years ago was enraged about people who drove welfare Cadillacs, both of them. I don't know how many people scammed the welfare system, but it's small or even tiny compared to those who depend on it for a barely adequate life.
> LOL_ you obviously don't know the story about the original welfare queen:
> https://newrepublic.com/article/154404/myth-welfare-queen

What about her?

> You call $1.8 Trillion a pittance?
> https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2021/05/27/the-american-families-plan-too-many-tax-credits-for-children/
> That's money down the drain to the type of program that has a solid historical track record of being a total waste. About as hugely wasteful as all this exorbitant education spending on people who don't want it and are uneducable.

This hasn't even happened and you are calling it a total waste. Your powers of prognostication are amazing!

> > This is such a tiny portion of the money the government gives out I don't care. It's probably at a level that would make it hard to police further without costing more than it saves. In any event, I'm not for denying anyone healthcare.
> Who said anything about ACA? If properly implemented ACA will save money.

??? Just read the thread you are responding to. It's right above in the material quoted. Here, let me save you the scrolling.

> > > > On 6/18/2021 10:16 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> > > > >> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
> > > > > The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving
> > > > > that's why they can't afford the deductible.

I don't give a shit about the rich even though I am one by many standards. I take advantage of the various tax savings available to me, but I'm not going to wig out if some are removed. Personally I'd like to see them all removed. I would support nearly any other tax scheme than the one we have today that is so complex it is literally impossible to know if you are doing it right until you have to explain it to the IRS and let a judge decide.

A part of the mess is our health care system. It is so broken it will be very hard to fix because of all the vested interests by big, big business.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 7:42:21 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> On 6/18/2021 4:24 PM, Rick C wrote:
> > On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 11:37:26 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> >> On 6/18/2021 10:16 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> >>>> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or more
> >>>> millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
> >>>>
> >>>> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their incomes
> >>>> to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare insurance.
> >>>>
> >>>> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires responding
> >>>> with glee that the ACA is still with us.
> >>>>
> >>>> My response,
> >>>>
> >>>> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
> >>>> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
> >>>>
> >>>> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
> >>> The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving
> >>> that's why they can't afford the deductible.
> >>>
> >>> I agree with that, depending on what poor means.
> >>>
> >>> Savings is a concept that many middle income and high income
> >>> individuals have a problem with.
> >>>
> >> Some poor, just plain don't have any money left after housing and food..
> >>> Sounds like you've bought into the everyone-is-a-victim fiction.
> >> Ah, not really. My main point was that people with a net worth in the
> >> top 10% are structuring
> >>
> >> their income to take advantage of subsidies on their healthcare
> >> insurance. Paid for by people that
> >>
> >> have much less and earn a middle class income.
> >>
> >> I'll freely admit, I'm probably the dumb one, I have probably paid
> >> over $70k in extra insurance premiums,
> >>
> >> since 2012, because I avoided the ACA and kept a private plan the whole
> >> time. I could have got a large subsidy.
> > It's always easy peasy to point out problems. It's also easy peasy to come up with lame, knee jerk solutions like Larkin tends to do. But you don't even try.
> >
> > My solution is universal health care like they have in most civilized countries. Then everyone gets all the treatment they need and it is back to paying according to your ability... well, as much as the tax system is structured for that.
> >
> > It would not require much extra taxes, at least beyond what is paid out today. Those who are currently covered under employers' plans would essentially be covered by the employer paying into funding universal health care just as they today pay for insurance. Those who are covered by Medicare or Medicaid would not change. That covers the lion's share of medical costs. The remainder of uninsured would need to be covered by some extra taxes collected. Or, maybe the savings of eliminating the medical insurance industry would cover that.
> >
> > There are many details to figure out for sure, but it's not an intractable problem. That would completely remove the minimum income goal for the retired, well, from the medical insurance aspect at least. They still want to minimize their taxes in general.
> >
> This is like college loans, the government gets involved and all the
> easy money drives up costs.

You did not understand a single word I wrote. Universal healthcare would do the opposite because it would be paid for by the government, not the patients and like Medicare, the payments would be controlled. Most likely a workable system would result in most healthcare professionals working for a universal healthcare system like the NHS in Britain.

> Same with healthcare. Subsides are not the fix, lower costs and the rate
> of increases is.

I'm not talking about subsidies. I'm talking about drop kicking the existing system, getting rid of insurance (which IS subsidized) replacing it with a single payer system. Most politicians say "Medicare for all", but I think Medicare is a mess. WAY TOO COMPLICATED. In most countries you might want to live in health care is just paid for. No fuss, no muss. Can't get much more simple.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or
>> more millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>>
>> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their
>> incomes to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare
>> insurance.
>>
>> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires
>> responding with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>>
>> My response,
>>
>> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
>> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
>>
>> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
>
> The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving, that's
> why they can't afford the deductible. Sounds like you've bought into
> the everyone-is-a-victim fiction.

The working poor have to pay social security and pay for many taxes
indirectly. That's why they can't save. Everyone is a victim of big
government.

--
Defund the Thought Police

amdx wrote:
> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or
> more millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>
> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their
> incomes to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare
> insurance.
> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires
> responding with glee that the ACA is still with us.

So the millionaires are glad they have Democrats in office. Obviously
they have no clue that those Democrats are moving very rapidly toward
wealth confiscation. Boy are they gonna be surprised when they have to
come out of retirement.

--
Defund the Thought Police

On 6/18/2021 7:52 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>>> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or
>>> more millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>>>
>>> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their
>>> incomes to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare
>>> insurance.
>>>
>>> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires
>>> responding with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>>>
>>> My response,
>>>
>>> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
>>> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
>>>
>>> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
>> The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving, that's
>> why they can't afford the deductible. Sounds like you've bought into
>> the everyone-is-a-victim fiction.
> The working poor have to pay social security and pay for many taxes
> indirectly. That's why they can't save. Everyone is a victim of big
> government.
>
>
 Do you honestly think that if the poor had an additional 7.55% in
their checks they would actually save it?

Social Security is the best thing they have going for them. They get a
disability policy, they get their children taken care of if they die,

they get their wife taken care of if they die and they get a retirement
policy for their old age.

If not for them paying a little to take care of themselves it would be
on the rest of the taxpayers to take care of them.

                                                        Mikek

--
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On 6/18/2021 12:17 PM, amdx wrote:
> On 6/17/2021 8:33 PM, bitrex wrote:
>> On 6/17/2021 5:54 PM, amdx wrote:
>>> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or
>>> more millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>>>
>>> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their
>>> incomes to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare
>>> insurance.
>>>
>>> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires
>>> responding with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>>>
>>> My response,
>>>
>>> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
>>> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
>>>
>>> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
>>>
>>> I was given an infraction worth 1 point(s) and may result in
>>> restricted access until it expires.
>>>
>>>        :-)
>>>
>>> Rant over.
>>>
>>>                 Mikek
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The trouble with forums designed primarily for men to brag about how
>> much money they have or how many women they fuck or other topics of
>> "mens interest" is that unless there's a million-dollar entry fee or a
>> requirement to upload a video of the date with Sarah Michelle Geller
>> where you "totally banged her" you'll rarely find an honest man in one
>> of those places.
>
> There are plenty of women on the forums I read. Being anonymous lying
> does you no good. But, sure some could inflate, but why? Having a
> million or two is far from being rich, or even being a chick magnet. $1M
> will safely generate $40k a year, $2M is $80k a year, hardly making you
> rich.
>
> Call me rare then, my wife and I have 2.5 times more than we earned over
> 37 years of working using our SS record numbers. But you don't believe it?
>
> That's the magic of compound interest.  You probably don't believe a
> family can live on 50% or 60% of their income either.
>
> We earned a middle class income started below $20k and had about 10
> years at $70k. First year married we earned $18k and saved $6k.
>
> Quote "If you have a million dollars and live like a millionaire, you
> won't have a million dollars for long."
>
> Probably to late for your retirement, but check out Early-Retirment.org
>
> As I like to tell people getting a late start, just because you can't
> reach $1M, wouldn't it still be nice to have $500,000 saved?
>
>                                                         Mikek
>
>

I design electronics - what would I want to retire early for tho?

On 6/18/2021 9:39 PM, amdx wrote:
> On 6/18/2021 7:52 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>>>> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or
>>>> more millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>>>>
>>>> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their
>>>> incomes to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare
>>>> insurance.
>>>>
>>>> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires
>>>> responding with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>>>>
>>>> My response,
>>>>
>>>> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
>>>> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
>>>>
>>>> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
>>> The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving, that's
>>> why they can't afford the deductible. Sounds like you've bought into
>>> the everyone-is-a-victim fiction.
>> The working poor have to pay social security and pay for many taxes
>> indirectly. That's why they can't save. Everyone is a victim of big
>> government.
>>
>>
>  Do you honestly think that if the poor had an additional 7.55% in
> their checks they would actually save it?
>
> Social Security is the best thing they have going for them. They get a
> disability policy, they get their children taken care of if they die,
>
> they get their wife taken care of if they die and they get a retirement
> policy for their old age.
>
> If not for them paying a little to take care of themselves it would be
> on the rest of the taxpayers to take care of them.
>
>                                                         Mikek
>
>

SSI and SSDI aren't conducive to saving money, SSI in particular they
can only have $2000 in assets, only earned income can be contributed to
retirement accounts, almost all public housing/section 8 is means-tested
so the minute they earn any income the rent goes up.

Public assistance as it is now is designed so the poor spend down what
little income they have, not save or invest it

On 6/18/2021 8:52 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>>> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or
>>> more millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>>>
>>> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their
>>> incomes to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare
>>> insurance.
>>>
>>> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires
>>> responding with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>>>
>>> My response,
>>>
>>> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
>>> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
>>>
>>> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
>>
>> The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving, that's
>> why they can't afford the deductible. Sounds like you've bought into
>> the everyone-is-a-victim fiction.
>
> The working poor have to pay social security and pay for many taxes
> indirectly. That's why they can't save. Everyone is a victim of big
> government.
>
>

Big government victimizes the poor, small government devotes its limited
resources to exterminating them, the only sunk cost into "social
welfare" is the cost of a bullet, a very efficient model of operation
for a small government.

On 6/18/2021 8:57 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> amdx wrote:
>> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or
>> more millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>>
>> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their
>> incomes to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare
>> insurance.
>> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires
>> responding with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>
> So the millionaires are glad they have Democrats in office. Obviously
> they have no clue that those Democrats are moving very rapidly toward
> wealth confiscation. Boy are they gonna be surprised when they have to
> come out of retirement.
>
>

Seems unlikely, like 75% of American men would sign up to take
jizz-facials all day from anyone who claimed they had a million dollars,
just in case the secret to having a million themselves was contained in
the spunk.

On 6/18/2021 7:37 PM, amdx wrote:
> On 6/18/2021 2:44 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 11:37:26 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>>> On 6/18/2021 10:16 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>>>>> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or
>>>>> more
>>>>> millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>>>>>
>>>>> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their
>>>>> incomes
>>>>> to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare
>>>>> insurance.
>>>>>
>>>>> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires
>>>>> responding
>>>>> with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>>>>>
>>>>> My response,
>>>>>
>>>>> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires happy
>>>>> that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare premium.
>>>>>
>>>>> And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the deductible."
>>>> The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving
>>>> that's why they can't afford the deductible.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with that, depending on what poor means.
>>>>
>>>> Savings is a concept that many middle income and high income
>>>> individuals have a problem with.
>>>>
>>> Some poor, just plain don't have any money left after housing and food.
>> Are those the poor where both parents can't care for themselves, and
>> then between the two of them have six similarly inferior children that
>> the taxpayer is supposed to subsidize? Subsidizing this atrocious
>> situation with very generous tax credits explains why budget deficits
>> are now measured in trillions and not just billions.
>
>   I'm on your side on this (although your demeanor has me wondering if
> this is the real Fred Bloggs)
>
> We have 43% of the workers that pay no Federal Income taxes and many of
> those get money back they never paid in.
>
> I think Financial education should start in Middle school.

Looks like the Dems are up to something:

<https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/national/rhode-island-to-require-students-to-take-financial-literacy-classes>

>>> I'll freely admit, I'm probably the dumb one, I have probably paid
>>> over $70k in extra insurance premiums,
>>>
>>> since 2012, because I avoided the ACA and kept a private plan the whole
>>> time. I could have got a large subsidy.
>> How come none of those crooks told you about subsidies all that time?
>
>  Oh I knew about it, I was against the ACA and hoped it would get
> thrown out. I voted with my wallet.
>
>
>                                        Mikek
>
>
>

bitrex wrote:
> On 6/18/2021 8:57 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
>> amdx wrote:
>>> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or
>>> more millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>>>
>>> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their
>>> incomes to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their healthcare
>>> insurance.
>>> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires
>>> responding with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>>
>> So the millionaires are glad they have Democrats in office. Obviously
>> they have no clue that those Democrats are moving very rapidly toward
>> wealth confiscation. Boy are they gonna be surprised when they have
>> to come out of retirement.
>>
>>
>
> Seems unlikely, like 75% of American men would sign up to take
> jizz-facials all day from anyone who claimed they had a million
> dollars, just in case the secret to having a million themselves was
> contained in the spunk.

1 - That's not germane to what I said.

2 - Talking like a ghetto teenager is not likely to keep you young in
the way you want.

--
Defund the Thought Police

amdx wrote:
> On 6/18/2021 7:52 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
>> Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 5:54:53 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>>>> I frequent early retirement groups. Most of the posters have one or
>>>> more millions and are living of of the growth and dividends.
>>>>
>>>> All fine and good, but they are also very keen to control their
>>>> incomes to stay at a level to get a nice subsidy on their
>>>> healthcare insurance.
>>>>
>>>> The thread today had at least 20 of those happy millionaires
>>>> responding with glee that the ACA is still with us.
>>>>
>>>> My response,
>>>>
>>>> "Just to be contrarian, this is great! A bunch of millionaires
>>>> happy that people making $50k are paying part of their healthcare
>>>> premium. And, the poor have coverage, but can't afford the
>>>> deductible."
>>> The poor squander their incomes and have no concept of saving,
>>> that's why they can't afford the deductible. Sounds like you've
>>> bought into the everyone-is-a-victim fiction.
>> The working poor have to pay social security and pay for many taxes
>> indirectly. That's why they can't save. Everyone is a victim of big
>> government.
>>
>>
> Do you honestly think that if the poor had an additional 7.55% in
> their checks they would actually save it?

The smart ones used to. The others had less. You are not going to change
the fact that dumb people have less.

> Social Security is the best thing they have going for them. They get a
> disability policy, they get their children taken care of if they die,

Wives and children have other means. They just don't use them like they
used to.

Before 1936 wives and children did not drop dead right after their
father did.

> they get their wife taken care of if they die and they get a
> retirement policy for their old age.

What they really get is a scam that has always been a Ponsi scheme and,
since 1968, has had a "fund" filled with IOU's.

--
Defund the Thought Police