Our new selective solder machine squirts solder on the bottom of a
board to solder the thru-hole parts. But it needs fiducial marks for
alignment, and most of our boards don't have bottonside fiducials.

Has anyone used portable fiducials? A fiducual might stick on or screw
into a mounting hole or something. Alignment shouldn't need to be
super tight for soldering.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkdhfnw4l6izbk/SS_Machine.jpg?raw=1

It doesn't seem to like using mounting holes or vias as fiducials.
Picky.

It's picky about flux too. We'll have to use an exotic no-clean. We're
doing a test board to see how that works.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.

fredag den 25. juni 2021 kl. 18.31.33 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
> Our new selective solder machine squirts solder on the bottom of a
> board to solder the thru-hole parts. But it needs fiducial marks for
> alignment, and most of our boards don't have bottonside fiducials.
>
> Has anyone used portable fiducials? A fiducual might stick on or screw
> into a mounting hole or something. Alignment shouldn't need to be
> super tight for soldering.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkdhfnw4l6izbk/SS_Machine.jpg?raw=1
>
> It doesn't seem to like using mounting holes or vias as fiducials.
> Picky.
>
> It's picky about flux too. We'll have to use an exotic no-clean. We're
> doing a test board to see how that works.
>

make a pcb with fiducials that fits like a frame around the pcb you are soldering?

On 2021/06/25 9:31 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> Our new selective solder machine squirts solder on the bottom of a
> board to solder the thru-hole parts. But it needs fiducial marks for
> alignment, and most of our boards don't have bottonside fiducials.
>
> Has anyone used portable fiducials? A fiducual might stick on or screw
> into a mounting hole or something. Alignment shouldn't need to be
> super tight for soldering.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkdhfnw4l6izbk/SS_Machine.jpg?raw=1
>
> It doesn't seem to like using mounting holes or vias as fiducials.
> Picky.
>
> It's picky about flux too. We'll have to use an exotic no-clean. We're
> doing a test board to see how that works.
>

Your roof doesn't appear to be insulated. Doesn't it get warm in your
part of the world?

John :-#)#

fredag den 25. juni 2021 kl. 19.52.19 UTC+2 skrev John Robertson:
> On 2021/06/25 9:31 a.m., jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > Our new selective solder machine squirts solder on the bottom of a
> > board to solder the thru-hole parts. But it needs fiducial marks for
> > alignment, and most of our boards don't have bottonside fiducials.
> >
> > Has anyone used portable fiducials? A fiducual might stick on or screw
> > into a mounting hole or something. Alignment shouldn't need to be
> > super tight for soldering.
> >
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkdhfnw4l6izbk/SS_Machine.jpg?raw=1
> >
> > It doesn't seem to like using mounting holes or vias as fiducials.
> > Picky.
> >
> > It's picky about flux too. We'll have to use an exotic no-clean. We're
> > doing a test board to see how that works.
> >
> Your roof doesn't appear to be insulated. Doesn't it get warm in your
> part of the world?

probably insulated on the outside

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 11:12:08 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

>fredag den 25. juni 2021 kl. 19.52.19 UTC+2 skrev John Robertson:
>> On 2021/06/25 9:31 a.m., jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> > Our new selective solder machine squirts solder on the bottom of a
>> > board to solder the thru-hole parts. But it needs fiducial marks for
>> > alignment, and most of our boards don't have bottonside fiducials.
>> >
>> > Has anyone used portable fiducials? A fiducual might stick on or screw
>> > into a mounting hole or something. Alignment shouldn't need to be
>> > super tight for soldering.
>> >
>> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkdhfnw4l6izbk/SS_Machine.jpg?raw=1
>> >
>> > It doesn't seem to like using mounting holes or vias as fiducials.
>> > Picky.
>> >
>> > It's picky about flux too. We'll have to use an exotic no-clean. We're
>> > doing a test board to see how that works.
>> >
>> Your roof doesn't appear to be insulated. Doesn't it get warm in your
>> part of the world?
>
>probably insulated on the outside

Yes, we added a big layer of foam on top. But it's 59F right now. I
wore a sweater to walk to work.

The side walls are concrete, but contact adjacent buildings on both
sides.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 09:31:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

>Our new selective solder machine squirts solder on the bottom of a
>board to solder the thru-hole parts. But it needs fiducial marks for
>alignment, and most of our boards don't have bottonside fiducials.
>
>Has anyone used portable fiducials? A fiducual might stick on or screw
>into a mounting hole or something. Alignment shouldn't need to be
>super tight for soldering.
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkdhfnw4l6izbk/SS_Machine.jpg?raw=1
>
>It doesn't seem to like using mounting holes or vias as fiducials.
>Picky.
>
>It's picky about flux too. We'll have to use an exotic no-clean. We're
>doing a test board to see how that works.

So a bit of self-adhesive Kapton FPC with a fiducial?

I guess a fixture would be more efficient for any quantity.

--
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 16:31:13 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 09:31:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>wrote:
>
>>Our new selective solder machine squirts solder on the bottom of a
>>board to solder the thru-hole parts. But it needs fiducial marks for
>>alignment, and most of our boards don't have bottonside fiducials.
>>
>>Has anyone used portable fiducials? A fiducual might stick on or screw
>>into a mounting hole or something. Alignment shouldn't need to be
>>super tight for soldering.
>>
>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkdhfnw4l6izbk/SS_Machine.jpg?raw=1
>>
>>It doesn't seem to like using mounting holes or vias as fiducials.
>>Picky.
>>
>>It's picky about flux too. We'll have to use an exotic no-clean. We're
>>doing a test board to see how that works.
>
>So a bit of self-adhesive Kapton FPC with a fiducial?

We'd have to stick it in exactly the right place. I was thinking we
could make some sort of gadget to poke into a few mounting holes,
which every board has. Like a flathead screw or shoulder thing, with
the fiducial on the flat.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:58:54 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 16:31:13 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
><speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 09:31:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Our new selective solder machine squirts solder on the bottom of a
>>>board to solder the thru-hole parts. But it needs fiducial marks for
>>>alignment, and most of our boards don't have bottonside fiducials.
>>>
>>>Has anyone used portable fiducials? A fiducual might stick on or screw
>>>into a mounting hole or something. Alignment shouldn't need to be
>>>super tight for soldering.
>>>
>>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkdhfnw4l6izbk/SS_Machine.jpg?raw=1
>>>
>>>It doesn't seem to like using mounting holes or vias as fiducials.
>>>Picky.
>>>
>>>It's picky about flux too. We'll have to use an exotic no-clean. We're
>>>doing a test board to see how that works.
>>
>>So a bit of self-adhesive Kapton FPC with a fiducial?
>
>We'd have to stick it in exactly the right place. I was thinking we
>could make some sort of gadget to poke into a few mounting holes,
>which every board has. Like a flathead screw or shoulder thing, with
>the fiducial on the flat.

Now I gotta find out what we use for these on our SS machine.

boB

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:32:37 -0700, boB <boB@K7IQ.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:58:54 -0700, John Larkin
><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 16:31:13 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
>><speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 09:31:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Our new selective solder machine squirts solder on the bottom of a
>>>>board to solder the thru-hole parts. But it needs fiducial marks for
>>>>alignment, and most of our boards don't have bottonside fiducials.
>>>>
>>>>Has anyone used portable fiducials? A fiducual might stick on or screw
>>>>into a mounting hole or something. Alignment shouldn't need to be
>>>>super tight for soldering.
>>>>
>>>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkdhfnw4l6izbk/SS_Machine.jpg?raw=1
>>>>
>>>>It doesn't seem to like using mounting holes or vias as fiducials.
>>>>Picky.
>>>>
>>>>It's picky about flux too. We'll have to use an exotic no-clean. We're
>>>>doing a test board to see how that works.
>>>
>>>So a bit of self-adhesive Kapton FPC with a fiducial?
>>
>>We'd have to stick it in exactly the right place. I was thinking we
>>could make some sort of gadget to poke into a few mounting holes,
>>which every board has. Like a flathead screw or shoulder thing, with
>>the fiducial on the flat.
>
>
>Now I gotta find out what we use for these on our SS machine.
>
>boB
>

We created a double-sided fiducial in our PADS library, so all new
boards or revs get three fids on each side, plus some on the borders
if panelized. But we have a lot of old boards without fiducials on the
bottom, and don't want to rev all of them.

The ss machine is cool. What flux are you using? We just laid out a
surface leakage test board to experiment with different fluxes. Most
of our boards wouldn't care about a gigohm here and there, but some
would. The ss machine people want us to use a no-clean flux that
doesn't gunk up the machine.

Looks like we'll be all lead-free and all no-clean soon. The age of
beautiful boards is past.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The best designs are necessarily accidental.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:00:56 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:32:37 -0700, boB <boB@K7IQ.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:58:54 -0700, John Larkin
>><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 16:31:13 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
>>><speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 09:31:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Our new selective solder machine squirts solder on the bottom of a
>>>>>board to solder the thru-hole parts. But it needs fiducial marks for
>>>>>alignment, and most of our boards don't have bottonside fiducials.
>>>>>
>>>>>Has anyone used portable fiducials? A fiducual might stick on or screw
>>>>>into a mounting hole or something. Alignment shouldn't need to be
>>>>>super tight for soldering.
>>>>>
>>>>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/5lkdhfnw4l6izbk/SS_Machine.jpg?raw=1
>>>>>
>>>>>It doesn't seem to like using mounting holes or vias as fiducials.
>>>>>Picky.
>>>>>
>>>>>It's picky about flux too. We'll have to use an exotic no-clean. We're
>>>>>doing a test board to see how that works.
>>>>
>>>>So a bit of self-adhesive Kapton FPC with a fiducial?
>>>
>>>We'd have to stick it in exactly the right place. I was thinking we
>>>could make some sort of gadget to poke into a few mounting holes,
>>>which every board has. Like a flathead screw or shoulder thing, with
>>>the fiducial on the flat.
>>
>>
>>Now I gotta find out what we use for these on our SS machine.
>>
>>boB
>>
>
>We created a double-sided fiducial in our PADS library, so all new
>boards or revs get three fids on each side, plus some on the borders
>if panelized. But we have a lot of old boards without fiducials on the
>bottom, and don't want to rev all of them.
>
>The ss machine is cool. What flux are you using? We just laid out a
>surface leakage test board to experiment with different fluxes. Most
>of our boards wouldn't care about a gigohm here and there, but some
>would. The ss machine people want us to use a no-clean flux that
>doesn't gunk up the machine.
>
>Looks like we'll be all lead-free and all no-clean soon. The age of
>beautiful boards is past.

We are using a No-Clean flux in the SS and the wave solder machines.

Kester 985M

The SS machine also uses nitrogen injected into the solder to reduce
slag.

Interesting.